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[00:00:07] Welcome to France 24, it's 5 PM here in Paris. France
[00:00:10] is in the spotlight with this general strike and strong mobilization.
[00:00:14] in my opinion, the This Thursday could be the climax
[00:00:16] MEDEF of this social autumn. Protests are still
[00:00:18] ongoing in Paris, and we are hearing of tensions elsewhere, particularly in Toulouse and
[00:00:23] example, or the surge Nantes, and even violence. Purchasing power remains the main subject. We will find Mary
[00:00:27] Shuster in the Parisian processions, but also Vicdofouco
[00:00:30] to understand the reasons for this anger. Hello to both of you.
[00:00:34] We will also come back to these mysterious bomb threats, which always concern
[00:00:38] planes flying over Europe. There have been many of them since the beginning of the
[00:00:41] week, and several aircraft were diverted this Thursday.
[00:00:45] Are the games over in Israel? The main Arab list announces
[00:00:48] its support for Hidi Ezenkot with a view to forming the next
[00:00:52] government. Netanyahu, on the other hand, loses a key
[00:00:54] ally.
[00:01:02] complicated, again, still from
[00:01:06] How many are there in the streets of Paris? According
[00:01:11] and moreover, it comes to us from the rest of to 600,000 people demonstrated today in
[00:01:14] France, in Lyon, Toulouse, Rennes, and of course Paris, where protesters
[00:01:17] have been protesting since 2 PM. Marister, you
[00:01:20] are on site. The first protesters arrived
[00:01:23] at Place de la Nation in Paris a few minutes ago, and some have not
[00:01:26] yet left the Republic, which shows the scale of the mobilization.
[00:01:32] Yes, indeed, a very large-scale mobilization, I am told.
[00:01:36] The CGT procession, which is the largest, the CGT trucks are still
[00:01:39] blocked at Place de la République. There were some skirmishes
[00:01:43] at the beginning of the procession, but overall, this procession
[00:01:46] is moving calmly towards
[00:01:50] Place de la Nation, but again,
[00:01:52] elections, the leader of "moving" is a strong word. The procession has met since
[00:01:55] 2 PM a lot of people, diverse and
[00:01:58] varied people, retirees who came to support the young generations,
[00:02:02] students of course, who started this movement of
[00:02:05] social anger a month ago, but also hospital staff
[00:02:09] from the public sector, the private sector, firefighters,
[00:02:12] also people who work in industry,
[00:02:16] in short, a whole range of generations, and we can indeed say
[00:02:19] that in Paris, at least, the slogan of this procession is
[00:02:22] the struggle, the convergence
[00:02:26] of struggles, the convergence of generations, the convergence of struggles,
[00:02:29] all of them protest against
[00:02:32] an increase in purchasing power, a revaluation of
[00:02:36] wages, protest against the
[00:02:37] population and contributes to reduction of family allowances and
[00:02:40] other things, but what brings these protesters together the most is what they
[00:02:44] think of the authorities, of the police. You may hear behind me "acab",
[00:02:48] which is a direct protest
[00:02:51] launched against the police bordering this
[00:02:54] procession. There are also demonstrations against the President of the
[00:02:58] we listen to Marine Le Pen on precisely the Republic himself. I heard in the procession people singing,
[00:03:01] "Louis XVI, we beheaded him, Macron, we can
[00:03:04] do it again." The President of the Republic, who, according to a recent poll, and also
[00:03:08] here in the street, shows record
[00:03:10] unpopularity. Thank you very much, Marie. 600,000
[00:03:14] demonstrators, France, including
[00:03:17] Melania Trump received Paris. Bovo says we are waiting for the union figures which will certainly be higher.
[00:03:21] At the heart of today's demands are wages
[00:03:25] and purchasing power. Many French people still have
[00:03:28] the feeling of no longer being able to live decently from their work. This is not
[00:03:32] just a feeling. Poverty
[00:03:35] private sector, the growth of is at its highest level in 30 years. Ludovic de Fouco, you have joined us. Hello to you.
[00:03:39] Declassification and impoverishment are not just a feeling.
[00:03:42] Proof in hand with this article from the "Décodeurs du Monde" that you are going to present
[00:03:46] to us. Yes, this is an article that first takes up figures
[00:03:49] published by Lin. You see this article displayed on your
[00:03:53] screen, so figures published this summer by Lins in the 2024 Living Standards
[00:03:56] and Poverty Survey. Here are the two key figures
[00:04:00] to remember from this survey: 9.8 million people below the poverty
[00:04:03] line in 2024. So, below the poverty line in France means less than
[00:04:07] €1337 per month for a
[00:04:10] there is a problem but on the idea that single person, less than €2807 for a couple with
[00:04:12] two children under 14. And as you said, Julien, this is the highest level
[00:04:16] since 1996, the date from which Lins has measured poverty with
[00:04:20] comparable criteria. So, we are exceeding the peak of
[00:04:23] 2011, which was the financial crisis, and that of 2018 with the
[00:04:27] cuts in housing benefits, the increase in fuel prices, that was the time
[00:04:31] of the Yellow Vests. You see this other graph that
[00:04:34] is displayed, we see the progression, the evolution since 1996. So, there is
[00:04:38] no explosion, no sudden peak,
[00:04:41] but a slow progression that stabilizes at a high
[00:04:45] level. So, we observe statistically in France, a
[00:04:48] sustained increase in poverty. And what is strange, Ludovic, is that
[00:04:51] increase. Well, there's another unemployment is falling and employment
[00:04:55] employees, when the escorted by air force is increasing for 10 years. A Rafale then a Mirage 2000 from How can poverty rise at the same time? This is the French exception that has been noted by the French Observatory
[00:04:59] of Economic Conditions. So, we will see this OFCE graph. You will
[00:05:03] see arrows in all directions of several colors. Each
[00:05:07] arrow represents a country and France in the
[00:05:12] we have fallen below middle with a navy blue arrow that goes frankly
[00:05:14] upwards while the others tend to go downwards.
[00:05:18] What does that mean? It means that elsewhere in Europe, when the labor market improves, poverty
[00:05:22] decreases. Well, in France since 2014, the
[00:05:25] two curves have risen together. Why? Well, it's the
[00:05:29] quality of the jobs created, that's what the OFCE says, the multiplication of precarious
[00:05:33] contracts, particularly in micro-enterprises, for
[00:05:36] in apprenticeships since 2017, since apprentices count as jobs in the
[00:05:40] statistics, but their remuneration is below the poverty line.
[00:05:43] Result: 1 in 5 self-employed people live below the poverty line, compared to less
[00:05:47] than 1 in 15 employees. So, we see a really significant difference. 1/3
[00:05:50] of poor workers are self-employed. So, in France, you can
[00:05:54] get out of unemployment without getting out of
[00:05:57] poverty. Employment protects less than before, especially
[00:06:00] young people. France, which nevertheless has one of the most generous social protection
[00:06:04] systems in Europe, does that mean it no longer works? Well, it
[00:06:08] still works but less well than before. So, we are going to look at another
[00:06:11] graph. A little
[00:06:14] the OFCE. You see many layers of different colors
[00:06:18] corresponding to each step of redistribution. So, there are
[00:06:21] taxes at the top and then benefits, minimum social benefits, and
[00:06:24] so on. And all this process continues to reduce the
[00:06:28] poverty rate by a little more than six points and thus still
[00:06:31] prevents today about 4 million people from becoming poor. But in
[00:06:35] 2013, this rate was 7.7 points, so we clearly see that we have
[00:06:38] lost in 10 years. Before redistribution, 37%
[00:06:42] of poor households escaped poverty thanks to benefits. In 2017, they
[00:06:46] are only 28% in 2023. So, why?
[00:06:50] We see it on the graph, at the green level,
[00:06:53] here at the level of the green layer, housing allowances have decreased.
[00:06:57] And we can also mention, just above, the low revaluation of family
[00:07:00] benefits, which have not kept pace with the inflation of 2022/2023. That
[00:07:04] is the lack of family policy in France and, on the contrary, let's say, a
[00:07:07] priority given to seniors. We could talk about it for hours. I often talk about it here, these are
[00:07:11] political choices that have been made and we are paying for them. Finally, it is true that
[00:07:15] poverty, even in figures, seems abstract. Concretely, what does it mean
[00:07:19] to live below this poverty line? Well, that too is measured by the INC.
[00:07:22] Eurostat defines 13 desirable
[00:07:25] expenses for an acceptable standard of living, and being
[00:07:28] deprived of at least 5 means being in material and
[00:07:32] social deprivation. New graph, it's the last one from the Le Monde article,
[00:07:36] easier to read this one, it talks about very common
[00:07:39] situations, not being able to cope with an unforeseen expense of €1000, for example
[00:07:43] for a boiler problem or a car problem, these are very
[00:07:46] concrete problems. In blue are people in a situation
[00:07:50] of continuous poverty and almost 70% of
[00:07:53] these people cannot cope with an unforeseen expense of €1.
[00:07:57] This is the case for them, while it concerns a little more than 1 in
[00:08:01] 7 people in the rest of the population. Another example, not being able to afford a week of
[00:08:04] vacation in the year, this is more than half for French people in the yellow
[00:08:08] box, so in a situation of poverty, not being able to heat themselves sufficiently 20...
[00:08:12] 3.5%, not being able to eat meat or fish every 2 days,
[00:08:15] 28.2%. So, for the entire population, it must be remembered,
[00:08:19] these deprivations remain minor, but it is still the highest level
[00:08:23] ever measured and what is very concerning is not only the level but the
[00:08:26] duration. 71% of poor people in 2023 were still
[00:08:30] poor in 2024 and that too is a record. Long-term poverty, that is to say
[00:08:34] more than 4 years, has almost doubled since 2008. So, we are
[00:08:37] on and that will be the last word on a very worrying scenario in
[00:08:41] France. It protects less, redistribution
[00:08:45] cushions less and deprivations tend to last. So yes,
[00:08:48] declassification is not just a feeling, it is unfortunately very real, very
[00:08:52] concrete in our country. Thank you very much, Ludovic, and Sébastien Le Cornu announces
[00:08:55] right now a meeting on Monday at Matignon, a social conference
[00:08:59] with the unions and the employers. What is
[00:09:02] happening in the European sky? For 3 days, air traffic has been disrupted due
[00:09:06] to false bomb threats. Just this morning,
[00:09:09] there were 12. Moreover, several planes had to
[00:09:13] be diverted, as was the case for an A320 from Dublin to Rome, which
[00:09:16] had to make an emergency landing in Normandy. Manonbougo and Audi
[00:09:20] Longuvalle.
[00:09:22] The passengers of this plane were supposed to land in Rome. Here
[00:09:26] they are on the tarmac of the Évreux military base, in
[00:09:29] their. Their aircraft was diverted this morning due to a
[00:09:32] bomb threat. The plane is diverted to the closest
[00:09:36] airfield that can accommodate it. In this case, it had to
[00:09:39] be the Evreux airfield, which is a military airfield. Once the plane is
[00:09:43] on the ground, bomb disposal experts are
[00:09:45] brought in. On board, there were
[00:09:48] 151 passengers, six crew members. It's almost
[00:09:52] 8 AM this morning when their airliner, an A320 from Herlingus
[00:09:55] Airlines, takes off from Dublin, heading for Rome. But
[00:09:59] after an hour of flight, the aircraft changes trajectory. It is then
[00:10:04] pilots.
[00:10:08] the Air and Space Force thus took off to carry out the
[00:10:11] interception.
[00:10:25] targeted this morning by a bomb threat, there would be at least 11
[00:10:28] others, and last Tuesday already, Ryanair flights were
[00:10:31] subject to threats, this is the case of this aircraft connecting Manchester to
[00:10:35] Murcy in Spain, inspected by bomb
[00:10:38] disposal experts, these passengers evacuated, who makes these
[00:10:42] alerts and for what purpose? Each time the planes are
[00:10:45] searched and no suspicious device has been found so
[00:10:48] far.
[00:10:51] Consultations continue more than a week after the election in Israel. This morning, President
[00:10:55] Herzog received a delegation from the United Torah
[00:10:58] Judaism party, an ultra-Orthodox party that this time refuses
[00:11:02] to join Netanyahu. This is very bad news for the outgoing Prime Minister, who
[00:11:06] reiterates his accusations of foreign interference, which he claims
[00:11:09] favored the Arab parties. The Arab
[00:11:13] parties seem to be siding with Gady and Zenkot. Listen to Mansour
[00:11:16] Abbas from the United Arab
[00:11:18] List.
[00:11:23] We recommended that Gad
[00:11:25] receive the mandate to form the new government, the
[00:11:28] government of hope and change, and we extend
[00:11:32] our hand to him while also supporting his efforts to establish
[00:11:35] this government.
[00:11:38] We will do our part in this regard to make this
[00:11:42] government possible
[00:11:45] and, of course, to bring down the government of
[00:11:49] Benjamin Netanyahu.
[00:11:54] who sees himself there already. He tries to redefine relations between
[00:11:57] Israelis and Americans after the Democratic wave in Congress yesterday.
[00:12:01] Thibaut Franceske.
[00:12:04] He is not yet prime minister, but Gadia Aizenkot is already looking
[00:12:08] ahead to the future of Israeli-American relations.
[00:12:11] While negotiations continue to form a government after the legislative
[00:12:17] the opposition to Benjamin Netanyahu says he wants
[00:12:20] to strengthen ties with the United States. Under
[00:12:23] my leadership, we will renew and strengthen the partnership with the
[00:12:27] United States and consolidate the bipartisan foundations that have long
[00:12:30] supported it. A statement that comes the day after a
[00:12:34] crucial announcement by Donald Trump, he wants to cut US aid to
[00:12:37] Israel, established annually by Barack Obama in
[00:12:40] 2019. The United States has always been a major
[00:12:44] political and financial supporter of the Hebrew state. Last
[00:12:47] year, Israel was the second most aided country by Washington
[00:12:51] after Ukraine. Interviewed by phone on Fox
[00:12:54] News, Donald Trump speaks of a mutually agreed
[00:12:57] decision. Bibi Netanyahu and I had reached an
[00:13:01] agreement that we would pay $4 billion a year to Israel,
[00:13:05] and we agreed a few months ago to end it. On their
[00:13:08] side, this suits them, because as you know, it has become a very prosperous country, they
[00:13:12] no longer need it. The announcement also comes as Democrats have just
[00:13:16] won the midterm elections, and if Joe Biden
[00:13:19] was conciliatory with the Hebrew state until his departure, other
[00:13:23] Democrats did not hesitate to criticize the scale of the war in Gaza and the number of
[00:13:26] victims. The American Congress may therefore be
[00:13:30] less inclined to help Israel in
[00:13:31] the future.
[00:13:34] This victory of the Democrats reshuffles geopolitical cards. Ukrainians
[00:13:38] hope for a return of American aid. This Thursday,
[00:13:42] Russian and Ukrainian representatives. The First
[00:13:46] Lady is calling for a lasting ceasefire in
[00:13:49] Ukraine.
[00:13:52] The five-time Ballon d'Or winner is hanging up his boots. He is retiring from the pitch at
[00:13:56] 41, the Portuguese announces his international retirement on his social
[00:13:59] networks with 146 goals in 243 selections, he
[00:14:03] will have marked the history of world football and of
[00:14:05] Portugal, of course, winner of Euro
[00:14:09] 2016 against France.
[00:14:12] That's all for the main news. Next up is Roseline Fèvre, who will present
[00:14:16] the political
[00:14:16] program.
[00:14:43] It's time for the Political magazine, welcome to you. In the streets, unions,
[00:14:47] employees, high school students, different generations, but
[00:14:50] the same feeling, the same common denominator, that of no longer living
[00:14:54] decently. With this question, what's the point of working
[00:14:57] if you don't make ends meet at the end of the month? This anger is also that of
[00:15:01] two generations: those who work today and can no longer live
[00:15:05] decently, and those who are about to enter active life
[00:15:08] wondering what the world will have to offer them. The
[00:15:12] unions are demanding a significant increase in the minimum wage
[00:15:15] and an increase in salaries for all
[00:15:20] government is thinking and
[00:15:24] hesitating and will have to make announcements and
[00:15:27] perhaps not live up to expectations. In any case, we have
[00:15:31] just learned that Matignon will receive the
[00:15:35] unions on Monday. In the United States, it is another anger that
[00:15:38] was expressed at the polls. Donald Trump's camp suffered
[00:15:42] a resounding defeat. The Democrats took
[00:15:45] back the House of Representatives and the Senate. The populist right
[00:15:49] lost in Hungary, in Great Britain, in Brazil, in Serbia, but in
[00:15:53] France, the National Rally has never been so popular.
[00:15:57] Will France become the bastion of the nationalist
[00:16:00] right that wins the presidential election when their friends are almost
[00:16:04] driven from power or at least
[00:16:08] do not accede to it? We will talk about it with Laurent Joffrin, director of the free newspaper,
[00:16:12] good evening to you, good evening, Catherine Tricot, director of the magazine Regard,
[00:16:15] good evening Catherine, good evening, Stéphane Vernet, editorialist at West
[00:16:19] France, good evening Stéphane, and Tristanne Banon, good evening, you
[00:16:23] are an editorialist at Frontiereur and at Les Echos Weekend. Thank you
[00:16:27] for being with us. Absolutely, so before we start this debate, I would like
[00:16:30] to invite you to listen to Sophie Binet from the CGT, because today, as
[00:16:34] you know, it was the big day, it is the big day for
[00:16:38] the unions. Let's listen to her.
[00:16:41] Obviously, if the government does not respond to our demands, there will be
[00:16:44] consequences. So, I call on the government to respond to the demands. It
[00:16:48] has been 6 weeks since we told them. They tried everything to stop the mobilization, but it
[00:16:52] didn't work. They tried repression, they tried violence, they tried to prohibit
[00:16:56] demonstrations, they tried holidays, it didn't work. The
[00:17:00] only way to stop the mobilization is to respond to the demands, and
[00:17:03] the longer they wait, the more it will cost them. So, the longer they
[00:17:07] wait, the more it will cost them. So, it is true that the government waited
[00:17:11] for the holidays, for the decline in demonstrations, for the
[00:17:14] general exhaustion, but ultimately
[00:17:17] none of that happened. Catherine, the street took
[00:17:20] over. I don't know if the street took over, but in any case, it doesn't let
[00:17:24] itself be ignored, and indeed, despite the bans on
[00:17:28] demonstrating, despite the last-minute changes of route,
[00:17:31] despite the government's wait-and-see attitude and all
[00:17:34] sorts of intimidations, today there are even more people than
[00:17:38] on October 17, which was already a somewhat significant
[00:17:41] demonstration in the country's history. I think
[00:17:44] that there are demands that are very
[00:17:47] clearly put forward by the unions concerning the increase
[00:17:50] in wages, starting with the minimum wage, because we know that in fact
[00:17:54] the government has control over this salary,
[00:17:57] meaning that by decree it can decide to increase the minimum wage. It will probably do so.
[00:18:01] It risks being careful.
[00:18:04] It shouldn't look like it's making fun of people, because if it increases by
[00:18:07] €15, as it seems to want to do, it won't be
[00:18:11] very well received. I think it might even add fuel to the fire,
[00:18:15] because people will feel humiliated by an
[00:18:18] increase. I mean, a McDonald's isn't enough, you know.
[00:18:21] So, I think it has that problem,
[00:18:25] and also, more generally, an
[00:18:29] expression that is becoming increasingly political, because it is no longer
[00:18:32] simply a protest movement, it is an expression
[00:18:35] that is a movement that is becoming more and more political and that raises the question of
[00:18:39] our common future and, in fact, in which direction we are going, where
[00:18:43] we are going. That's why all generations are coming together, those who work and those who
[00:18:47] do not yet work, as you said in your introduction.
[00:18:50] Stéphane, you were looking at the figures for this mobilization. Well, we
[00:18:54] are not at the end of this day, but in any case, you
[00:18:58] were looking before, while the credits were starting, and
[00:19:01] apparently there are more people than on October
[00:19:04] 17. Yes, because on October 17, the figures were the figures from the Ministry
[00:19:08] of the Interior, it was 500,000 or 550,000
[00:19:11] demonstrators across France, 800,000
[00:19:14] according to the organizers. Here we are at 60,000.
[00:19:18] So, 600,000 official figures
[00:19:21] from the Ministry of the Interior. So, objectively, it's more than the
[00:19:24] 500 or 550,000 of October 17. So, we can say that it's a
[00:19:28] successful mobilization, yes. Laurent, on the subject
[00:19:32] of the minimum wage, some economists say that in
[00:19:35] fact, it's not a good idea. We will listen to Marine Le Pen
[00:19:39] later, who is against it, a debate as old as the minimum wage. Yes,
[00:19:42] because in fact, those who will be
[00:19:46] who will be 200 euros more than the minimum wage, yes,
[00:19:49] it's the "smiccardisation" of low-paid employees,
[00:19:53] but there is a context that must be recalled, which is very
[00:19:57] simple. Wages have stagnated, well, the purchasing power of the French in
[00:20:00] general and wages in particular have stagnated since the years and
[00:20:03] dividends have increased again this year by, I don't know how much, 15%.
[00:20:07] Uh, more than that even. So obviously people say, "Wait a minute,
[00:20:10] we say it's a crisis, but not for everyone." Well, these are simple
[00:20:14] arguments, but they are right. It's true, it's true that capital income has
[00:20:17] increased more than labor income, and so workers in the broadest
[00:20:21] sense feel that it's not fair, and so
[00:20:24] they demand their share of the
[00:20:28] factor that the right and the left
[00:20:31] should meditate on: it's that it's not
[00:20:35] explained only by the increase in
[00:20:39] capital income, this matter. It's also explained by the fact that French
[00:20:42] growth has been lower for years than that
[00:20:46] of other European countries. We are regressing,
[00:20:49] the average European per capita income. Before, we were
[00:20:53] above. So, there is a regression in our
[00:20:56] productive capacity. So obviously, when there is less production, there are fewer
[00:20:59] wages. So these two factors mean that
[00:21:06] would do well to loosen up a bit, because
[00:21:10] this situation could degenerate. I would advise them to
[00:21:13] loosen up. Loosen up what Catherine said,
[00:21:16] if it's €15 of increase?
[00:21:21] That won't get us very far. And is it fundamentally
[00:21:24] increasing the minimum wage, but also increasing salaries? And there, it's not the government that
[00:21:28] can do anything, it's businesses. I think there are
[00:21:32] several things. First, I would like to come back to what Madame Binet said, with which
[00:21:36] I do not necessarily fully agree. I'm not saying I disagree, but I don't fully
[00:21:39] agree. There must be government action.
[00:21:43] Obviously, we saw it with the students, because there, I think the government can't
[00:21:46] do better than eventually not calm the anger of action. The
[00:21:50] government, and this is where we are in a complicated situation, is that the anger, the
[00:21:53] feeling of decline among the French is strong, and not only among the French, we see it among Europeans,
[00:21:57] it is a movement that is in France but not only in France
[00:22:01] Europe, that we do not really see what governmental announcement
[00:22:05] could prevent it from continuing. That is to say, I think that
[00:22:08] the anger of the French that we see there, that we are experiencing there,
[00:22:11] is not soluble in any governmental declaration.
[00:22:14] And yet, it will be forced to make one. So, from
[00:22:17] there, indeed, increasing the minimum wage. I agree that €15 is
[00:22:21] nothing, but it will nevertheless, if it is a more
[00:22:24] significant increase, pose problems not at all for big bosses, nor even
[00:22:28] necessarily for more human-sized businesses, but for the local
[00:22:32] baker. I am not convinced. that it will be anecdotal for
[00:22:35] him, and indeed then the question of salaries arises
[00:22:39] more generally and there the government does not have a hand so we are still in a situation of
[00:22:43] anger and a feeling of downgrading that we all understand and that we
[00:22:46] cannot not understand, that is to say, when we see people who, from the 10th
[00:22:50] at best of the month, by working, cannot
[00:22:53] provide for their family, then Christmas is coming so we will have to
[00:22:57] say no for presents, it will be it's something, it's not just a
[00:23:01] frustration, it's a feeling of injustice that
[00:23:04] puts people on the street, how do we fix this injustice with an economy that is doing
[00:23:08] badly in a Europe that is doing badly and in a world that is doing badly with in addition
[00:23:12] many things aggregating, the fear of a kind of end of the world when
[00:23:15] it's in summer when when we see the heatwave, the
[00:23:19] fires in winter. it will be the floods, it will be all that
[00:23:22] contributes to the feeling of fear of the entire
[00:23:27] their exasperation, how do we calm
[00:23:30] that, how, yes but how do we calm that, we see clearly when we
[00:23:34] hear them, they talk about a bit of everything at once, and and we understand
[00:23:37] perfectly that they talk about everything at once, but how do we calm that, it's not a government declaration that
[00:23:41] could calm it, I think, I don't agree with Ms. Binet,
[00:23:44] maybe I suggest
[00:23:48] minimum wage, I'll come back to it because... it's a bit the subject we hear
[00:23:52] in all the processions,
[00:23:54] she, she is not, she is against this increase
[00:23:58] of the minimum wage, let's listen to her,
[00:24:01] our companies are in a situation too fragile
[00:24:05] to impose on them in a way, in an authoritarian way,
[00:24:08] an increase of the minimum wage by 10
[00:24:11] face it, in reality we will witness a
[00:24:14] wave of layoffs,
[00:24:17] difficulty, Stéphane, on that, is it
[00:24:20] that's it usually on purchasing power
[00:24:24] on my left but I'm sorry Marine Le Pen is right
[00:24:27] about what she completely but if she
[00:24:30] is right in fact the problem is that salaries in France are too low, it's a
[00:24:34] reality, and it causes a lot of problems, it's a reality
[00:24:37] it's the engine, it's the fuel of this
[00:24:40] protest and indeed where it is extremely difficult is like for the yellow
[00:24:44] vests if you want, if there is a part of the demands that are quantified, known and
[00:24:47] so on, established but there is also a whole part that has nothing to do with tangible
[00:24:51] demands that relate to a sense of unease and
[00:24:54] not by measures or declarations that you can calm it down so
[00:25:00] salaries should be increased the
[00:25:03] the how the minimum wage by 10
[00:25:07] am very much in favor but if the if the government
[00:25:11] decides to increase the minimum wage by
[00:25:15] who will pay this salary increase it's not the government, in fact it's the
[00:25:19] companies. but the problem, but the problem, oh yes, but
[00:25:22] Tristan, you were saying, in fact we are in a France that is doing badly, in a Europe that is doing badly, not quite
[00:25:26] we are in a France that is doing very badly, in a Europe that is not doing so badly, our neighbors, they have
[00:25:29] growth, yes, it's true, we are the only ones, I'm sorry, in fact, what's going wrong
[00:25:33] it was the atmosphere, I mean, they are all in the street, oh no, but yes, okay, that completely, but on the other hand
[00:25:37] if you want, from an economic point of view there is an elephant in the room that we don't
[00:25:41] talk about enough and clearly in reality our country is in a situation
[00:25:44] of recession completely, I mean, in fact, we will have growth in reality at the
[00:25:48] end of the year, we will discover that growth in France this year, it is
[00:25:51] zero, zero, and so in fact you have a large number of business
[00:25:55] leaders and small small bosses and so on, of small businesses
[00:25:59] including not just SMEs that are already in very great
[00:26:02] difficulty and things are not going well at
[00:26:06] all and so saying 10% for the
[00:26:10] all want it, but the problem is that if behind that it translates into an
[00:26:13] avalanche of closures of layoffs, a precariousness of
[00:26:17] work that is already at work in our country, it's the same, among
[00:26:21] the things we never talk about, if you want, I'm sorry but we are witnessing a very
[00:26:25] strong development of self-employment
[00:26:28] news if you have a lot of people, in fact it's an extreme precariousness of
[00:26:32] du travail en France, plein de gens qui passent à entrepreneuriat parce que vous avez des
[00:26:36] well, that allows them to have
[00:26:40] people working for them
[00:26:44] et dont elles peuvent se débarrasser du jour au lendemain en fait tous les tous les
[00:26:48] signals are in crimson red so be careful, in fact it's not as simple as
[00:26:51] that, you also think that Marine Le Pen is right, Catherine, no, I think she
[00:26:55] is absolutely wrong, in particular I don't see how one can claim to be
[00:26:59] a candidate for the presidential election arriving and say to hold
[00:27:03] this type of speech, it's absolutely
[00:27:06] despairing, without perspective, without a way out and I don't believe
[00:27:10] that this is the way to continue in what put us in
[00:27:13] the ravine, if increased by 130
[00:27:17] euros, that is to say about the 10% that are demanded by the
[00:27:20] unions, the CFD asks for 100 euros, the CGD asks for 150, let's say that
[00:27:24] roughly it's around 130, that is 10 %, we would return to the level of
[00:27:28] purchasing power of 2012, that is to say we would return to the situation...
[00:27:36] situation what I yes in a situation so the French situation has deteriorated so what we need to do is try to think
[00:27:40] why it has deteriorated, has it deteriorated because people have been paid too well
[00:27:44] or has it deteriorated because we have paid them too little because
[00:27:48] I'm sorry but French growth is driven
[00:27:51] by other factors but most of
[00:27:54] you all know, is driven by domestic
[00:27:58] consumption and that therefore if people Yes, if it were that simple, it would be enough to
[00:28:03] double salaries, well, well that's also what was done and that's for
[00:28:07] c'est aussi ce qui s'est fait et c'est par exemple ce qui s'est fait en Espagne et qui
[00:28:11] situation
[00:28:12] of course there's nothing comparable and so on, that being said, what we
[00:28:16] have done for 15
[00:28:19] years, no, we don't do it, wait for 15 years, yes of course we
[00:28:22] would have to work until 78 and so on, but what I'm telling you
[00:28:26] is that I didn't say we should but I simply
[00:28:29] it's not an opinion. has destroyed our finances and what has destroyed our
[00:28:56] finances, I'm sorry, but it's still a government that is
[00:28:59] led by Emmanuel with his brilliant ideas
[00:29:03] that he had been able to experiment when he was when he was
[00:29:07] finance minister under François Hollande and that
[00:29:09] since then we are told he has sold the
[00:29:12] demands
[00:29:19] the yellow vests, he released I don't know, 15 billion, he responded
[00:29:23] to demands, now the same ones who demanded say it's
[00:29:26] scandalous, there's a deficit, well
[00:29:28] obviously
[00:29:31] it's those who dispute the fact that he made transfers from the public to the
[00:29:37] private wealth in France, it's extraordinary for the 500 largest
[00:29:41] fortunes, but they went from 200
[00:29:43] billion,
[00:29:50] I can say it if I want to say it, you can say it, it's not
[00:29:53] true, it's not
[00:29:55] true,
[00:29:59] yellows don't complain, the minimum wage. the
[00:30:01] same ones who say we must increase public spending because
[00:30:05] they are right to do so anyway, the same ones then say it's scandalous, there's a
[00:30:09] deficit, so it's not the only reason, there are several reasons for the deficit, but
[00:30:12] there is still a contradiction there, it's we must absolutely
[00:30:16] give in to the demands of farmers, of
[00:30:20] all professions, one after the other, the government
[00:30:23] wants to calm things down, it gives in and then we tell it, but your deficit is
[00:30:27] impossible if you manage your country
[00:30:30] anyhow. there's a bit of that anyway, so there's
[00:30:34] not only that because he also made tax cuts that we shouldn't have made but
[00:30:38] that's not the only factor in the
[00:30:41] deficit and wait, I haven't finished, I haven't
[00:30:44] finished, I haven't finished, I haven't finished and and and when we say we
[00:30:48] just have to tax the rich, we have to tax them, I think we don't tax them enough but
[00:30:52] we must not also every time
[00:30:54] there's a problem we say we're going to make a Zucman tax but we can't
[00:30:58] use it 10 times, we can maybe.