GBN — The Camilla Tominey Show
20260920 083000 UTC
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[00:00:18] Good
[00:00:18] in in morning and welcome to the Camilla Tomon Show on GB News inflation up borrowing
[00:00:22] a cost soaring and the prospect of yet more tax rises looming
[00:00:26] over the country
[00:00:27] of as the government wrestles with
[00:00:28] of Britain's
[00:00:28] in increasingly precarious five. finances, are any of our
[00:00:32] of political parties being
[00:00:33] of honest about the choices
[00:00:35] of ahead? I'll
[00:00:38] of be speaking to the minister for women and equalities, Bridget Philipson, labor has created a new government class unit, promising to put
[00:00:42] white working classes at the heart of its
[00:00:45] of
[00:00:45] of of equalities agenda. Just how do you define who is working class in Modern Britain
[00:00:49] though, and is this serious policy or just populism by another
[00:00:52] name? From the conservatives, shadow chief secretary to the treasury Richard
[00:00:56] Fuller joins me with borrowing cost soaring and another. difficult
[00:01:00] of budget ahead, what would the
[00:01:05] a of conservatives actually do differently, and does he accept some responsibility for the economic legacy of Liz
[00:01:08] Trust? Liberal Democrat cabinet
[00:01:10] of office spokes woman, I should say, Lisa Smart joins me.
[00:01:13] 42% of voters asked to described
[00:01:16] of davy of said don't know or who, with the greens to their left
[00:01:20] in and the conservatives on the right, what exactly is the point
[00:01:23] of the liberal democrats and economist Gerard
[00:01:26] in Lions will be here as
[00:01:27] me inflation of rises to
[00:01:28] of 3.1%, long-term borrowing costs hit levels not
[00:01:32] seen since the late 90s. how serious is Britain's debt problem and
[00:01:36] can the chancellor
[00:01:37] in possibly tax his way out of it? all that and much, much more to
[00:01:41] come over the next
[00:01:42] of 90 minutes, so do not
[00:01:43] of even think of going
[00:01:46] of anywhere.
[00:01:50] of of of of in of
[00:01:56] we are going
[00:02:00] of of to have our Sunday newspaper review in of of just moment with Nicholas of Owen, of of but... for that, the daily mail is Robert Hardman, author
[00:02:02] of of the new biography, Elizabeth II in private, in public, joins me now to
[00:02:06] dissect Earl Spencer's latest interview with the BBC, Robert,
[00:02:10] you at the mail, what are you doing, you should all be sent to the tower, we've now
[00:02:14] got earl Spencer accusing the king of gaslighting him, which as far as I can
[00:02:17] tell is Jen
[00:02:19] of Zeds speak for disagreement, who is telling
[00:02:23] the truth here, Robert
[00:02:25] of Hardman, of uh, well
[00:02:26] of I think everyone feels they're telling their truths, it's he said, he said,
[00:02:30] uh and it's 29 years old and here we are um
[00:02:34] debating um
[00:02:35] a sixty something man versus a 77-year-old
[00:02:38] king over
[00:02:40] of late night telephone call in possibly the most in fact
[00:02:44] certainly the
[00:02:45] of most stressful sleepless tense
[00:02:48] period
[00:02:53] a in um of of of uh modern post war royal history so yes you know there is background to this um Earl
[00:02:56] of Spencer of essentially is claiming that the
[00:02:59] in in the course of a conversation
[00:03:00] me um, prince Charles as he then
[00:03:03] of was, um, was quotes, giddily
[00:03:08] of of elated, or seemed giddily in elated, because his
[00:03:11] of of ex-wife had died, which is terrible thing to say, and needless to say, the palace is very
[00:03:15] much disputes this, and and took the rare step of
[00:03:19] issuing a statement
[00:03:21] of back on
[00:03:22] of Wednesday, it hasn't added to it since, but
[00:03:25] of saying, fraternal grief can cloud
[00:03:27] of memories, which is a polite way of saying recollections may vary. 'ie, we
[00:03:31] simply don't
[00:03:32] of buy this version of events,
[00:03:34] a and uh, Lord Spencer is saying, well, um,
[00:03:38] I, I, I wrote what I remember, so um,
[00:03:40] you know, we are where we are, all I can say, and I'm sure you, you, I don't want your
[00:03:44] of views are, Camilla, but you know the king, well, you and I have followed him all over the
[00:03:48] world,
[00:03:49] of I've been following him, writing about him, interviewing, I
[00:03:51] of made programs with him, I've written books
[00:03:53] of about of him, I've spoken to
[00:03:54] of those nearest and
[00:03:55] in dearest to him, um, I, I
[00:03:57] of feel I have the measure
[00:03:58] of the man and the picture that is paint'. by Lord Spencer simply does not
[00:04:01] accord with the the the my um
[00:04:05] experiences of King Charles, well it also doesn't accord with
[00:04:09] apparently his reported behavior at the hospital in Paris when he went to
[00:04:13] identify his ex-wife's body, apparently
[00:04:15] a of he was completely grief stricken and stayed with her for half an hour emerging in
[00:04:19] tears, second of all doesn't accord at all with his conduct at that
[00:04:23] funeral, we can debate whether it was a good idea to have William and Harry walk behind the
[00:04:27] coffin, but at the time he looked as if he had the weight
[00:04:30] of of of of the world. on his shoulders and further more, just point that struck me this
[00:04:33] of morning, why has earl Spencer sat on this story for nearly
[00:04:37] of 30 years and if his father behaved this oddly when his mother
[00:04:40] died, why didn't prince Harry
[00:04:42] of include those details
[00:04:43] in in of spare?
[00:04:44] a yeah, of I
[00:04:44] of mean these are all very valid points, I mean there's plenty of
[00:04:48] other
[00:04:50] of uh issues to which I'm sure when the book is uh out
[00:04:53] on on on sale and and
[00:04:55] of everyone will obviously pour over the details, I'm I'm sure there'll be more points of
[00:04:59] debate, I mean... that struck me very early on, was this
[00:05:02] extraordinary accusation
[00:05:05] of
[00:05:08] of of that um that the royal family had come between
[00:05:08] in - lord spencer's father, Johnny Spencer and the late...
[00:05:12] queen um with claim there was a sort of romantic interest between them
[00:05:16] when he was aquary um and
[00:05:19] that they had that young love had been um
[00:05:22] snuffed out by lord mount batton because lord mount
[00:05:25] batton is was trying to
[00:05:29] preserve lilabet for prince philip mean you've only got to
[00:05:33] look at the the dates - it would take you one minute on google to
[00:05:37] establish that um lord spencer the 8th
[00:05:40] old Johnny Spencer Charles Spencer's father became aquary to George
[00:05:44] in in 1950 and then to the queen in 1952, by
[00:05:48] which time she was married to Prince Philipp and had two children, so there's absolutely no
[00:05:51] prospect of any romance, I mean there's another point, Robert, we
[00:05:55] need to leave it there so I can fit in, I can fit in Nicholas Owen who you're very
[00:05:59] familiar with because he once covered the Royals, but Robert Hardman, thank you very much, it will run and
[00:06:03] run as we say in the trade, and talking about stories running and running,
[00:06:06] Nicholas Owen, let's not get into that, we haven't got time now but it is
[00:06:10] extraordinary. say one quick thing,
[00:06:14] this is a king who's got cancer and uh still dealing with it as far as we
[00:06:18] as far as we know, just just a thought, we're getting
[00:06:22] back to politics, we're getting back to politics and we're going to have a whistle stop talk through the sunday
[00:06:26] papers this morning, mail on sunday burnam early election tax hike,
[00:06:29] rumors of a mansion and other taxes, he has
[00:06:32] to have an election because there are red lines he needs to cross in order to fill this 10 billion black
[00:06:36] hole, yes well mean the thing that really matters is what's called the fiscal
[00:06:39] headroom that's the surplus that the treasury has
[00:06:42] you hopes want to to have put in its back pocket all the time so that whatever's happening with
[00:06:46] you taxes coming in not fast enough or
[00:06:49] you know other things going wrong that headroom every year should be over 20
[00:06:53] billion at the moment it's shrunk to 5 billion pounds that's like having
[00:06:57] sort of your ultimate savings down the back the sofa
[00:07:01] however or it we are disappearing into very very dangerous situation something's got
[00:07:05] to give there's going to have to be big tax what do you do -
[00:07:09] one the things that's now being talked about is a mansion tax as they say everybody
[00:07:13] else, the headline is that on houses over one and a half
[00:07:17] million pounds. I tell you one problem, this government's facing, the way the property
[00:07:21] market is going, scared at what all this is doing, many many property values are sinking
[00:07:24] anyway, so they're going to find themselves the houses, lot of houses they think would pay that
[00:07:28] tax won't be paying it anyway, and do you want the double whamy a time when because of
[00:07:32] inflation going up interest rates might go up and so their mortgages will be more expensive on
[00:07:36] houses that are worth less nick, exactly, exactly, all the options are bad
[00:07:40] ones, but for goodness sake let's have some sort of straight. forward talk about all of this
[00:07:43] right, one thing that doesn't seem to be on the table when it comes to October the 28th, when
[00:07:47] John Healey is going to deliver the budget as chancellor is cut to well fair, pip
[00:07:51] payments are to double and families with eight children are to receive
[00:07:55] 21,00 more, well yes, yes,
[00:07:57] the eight child benefit things quite quite straightforward in that, if your family is
[00:08:01] big enough because the cap has been removed, it was originally only two children would get
[00:08:05] it, so if you got eight children you do get an enormous amount of money, forgive me if I choose to have an
[00:08:08] extra child, not now by the way, not now, that account is closed, but if I
[00:08:12] choose that back in the uh mid-90s, yes. um, why would i
[00:08:16] expect a private sector employer to give me more money for having a chop? why are people
[00:08:20] expecting the public sector to pay for them to have ageed children?
[00:08:24] i'm afraid, i'm just completely in agreement with you. there's lots of other things to tackle as
[00:08:28] well, the so many. the thing that really gets me across about all this, when you talk to
[00:08:32] anybody who's been involved in administering any these benefits, and this is going back lot
[00:08:36] of years, one lady i know worked in one the old days when you had an office where people would
[00:08:39] come in and have to justify getting benefits. 'they only had to walk in the door and
[00:08:43] say I don't feel well or whatever
[00:08:45] I can't work and they'd get the money there and then the checking system doesn't
[00:08:49] really exist properly no face to face yeah no face to face also I read in that
[00:08:53] sun and Sunday story that people make the point listen lot of
[00:08:56] parents who are on low income salaries are using universal credit to
[00:09:00] top up and I appreciate that but that accounts for 60% the
[00:09:04] parents so by association 40% the parents are
[00:09:08] receiving the benefits without being in work at all how is that sustainable
[00:09:12] absolut absolutely disastrous situation, but don't don't worry, because
[00:09:15] Jim Radcliff says the country's going to helin a handcart, but
[00:09:19] yes, hey, if we've got financial problems, they could get even worse, why? what is
[00:09:23] somebody in the Caribbean suggesting we do? yeah, yeah, i
[00:09:27] get a little bit tired these sort of multi-billionaires are turning around and saying we should be doing
[00:09:31] this and should be doing that, but it is a worry, they are the people that create the wealth after
[00:09:35] all uh, with that without people like him,
[00:09:38] mean, who knows where what situation would be, even worse,
[00:09:41] wouldn't we? "um uh, it is a pity, I mean
[00:09:45] one the things that apparently is on the table and the possibility that we
[00:09:49] if people do decide to flee abroad to the Caribbean or wherever they're going to
[00:09:53] Monaco and all these other dreery places um that they will get an
[00:09:57] extra tax before they go, well an exit tax top of a wealth
[00:10:01] tax top of a mansion tax, it's looking decidedly attractive
[00:10:05] to remain in the UK isn't it not um but
[00:10:08] I was saying as well about the caribbean um link
[00:10:11] slavery" operations all right, there's a bid now for us to be paying
[00:10:15] slavery reparations into the billions, because the prime minister of Barbados
[00:10:19] thinks it's a good idea, there's talk of a big legal action, lawyers
[00:10:23] rubbing their hands making lots of money. again as in all these situations, this is
[00:10:27] getting absolutely crazy, isn't it? the thing that madens me is the biggest
[00:10:30] traders of slaves in the world back in the very very old days
[00:10:34] were arab countries, nothing to do with us at all, and we were the do we
[00:10:38] have to say this again, which country took the lead in abolishing slavery, it
[00:10:42] was this country, we did more, you know, people, we all know
[00:10:46] will force and people like that, but there were lots of others, lots of people and
[00:10:50] in the in in the the navy the day who risk their
[00:10:53] lives to stop all that. we're looking forward to get no credit for that
[00:10:57] quest to the middle east for some these arab states to cough up load of cash, yes, good
[00:11:01] point, let's not hold our breath on that one, absolutely unlikely, of course, on
[00:11:04] the Rackliff front, I thought it was interesting that Nigel Farage wrote a piece in support
[00:11:08] of Ratcliff in the newspapers this morning, I know he's
[00:11:12] now non- Dom and he hasn't been here for five years and funny enough I've pre-recorded an interview
[00:11:16] with Bridget Philipson which is running after this where she sort of says I'm not taking any advice for
[00:11:20] millionaires that have left the country, I wonder now if he might start backing
[00:11:23] reform, although can't because donations-wise he's a foreign
[00:11:27] donor, you need to be in the UK to donate to oh yes, these are
[00:11:31] these people suddenly coming up with the vast amounts of money, isn't it? and they have to be here to
[00:11:35] do it, they have to be able to do it. very quick final thought, who do
[00:11:39] you think has won the battle between the ginger and the winser? the king or charles
[00:11:43] spencer, uh, the king, hands down, do you think spencer has made a little bit of
[00:11:47] fool of himself? oh, a little bit of fool of himself, i agree, and my dear old mate
[00:11:50] Robert, you were talking earlier, got it dead right, some the actual
[00:11:54] facts
[00:11:54] do not add. and once you get into that, once people can start doing them,
[00:11:58] looking into these things carefully and saying, you got your dates wrong mate, how can we trust any of
[00:12:02] it? also, how can you trust somebody remembering something that happened 29
[00:12:06] years ago, yeah, you can't remember conversations from three decades ago,
[00:12:10] absolutely, absolutely not, right, nicholas, leave it there,
[00:12:13] because earlier I spoke to the chair the labour party and minister for women and
[00:12:17] equalities, Bridget Philipson, and here's what she had to
[00:12:20] say, Bridget
[00:12:23] Philipson, the chair the... party and the minister for women and equalities joins me in the
[00:12:27] GB News studio now, lovely to see you this morning, thank you very much for joining
[00:12:31] me. I'm just going to ask you a question about your previous guys as education secretary,
[00:12:35] because I thought the PASA scores which kind of assess children around
[00:12:39] Europe and the world were interesting, England way ahead
[00:12:43] of Scotland and Wales, which didn't adopt the reforms
[00:12:47] that Michael Gove introduced when he was education secretary, so does that
[00:12:50] prove that Michael Gove's much loathed reforms were actually right?
[00:12:55] "I think it shows that there are lots of strengths in the English school
[00:12:59] system, including in areas like Phonix, which was something that began under the last labour
[00:13:03] government, but then was rulled out by Michael Golve, that was something I've always supported
[00:13:07] because it's seen great results in terms of improving reading amongst children,
[00:13:11] and children having a really strong foundation and literacy and numericy is
[00:13:14] essential for all their lives. I think what the pizza results also do show
[00:13:18] us is that because the challenges we still face around some the deep-rooted
[00:13:22] inequalities and that gap between ' 'the poorest children and the more
[00:13:26] affluent children, if we can make more progress on that, then the scores would be
[00:13:30] even stronger, and I think that is the area that needs more focus, how do we
[00:13:33] tackle some of those big challenges that we see where young people in communities
[00:13:37] like mine don't achieve all that they should, and how do we
[00:13:40] really,
[00:13:41] you know, do further work on that, because if we did, I think we'd be
[00:13:45] seeing even better results, but we've got a quite a big and entrenched disadvantage
[00:13:48] gap uh within our school system. Okay, you're going to - come
[00:13:52] out now with new unit that will priorit'. is the white working
[00:13:56] class, you have in the past been accused of being class warrior, is
[00:14:00] this more kind of work on class a degree of
[00:14:03] popularism, perhaps to appeal to reform voters,
[00:14:07] what's this all about? so
[00:14:09] I i've always believed it's right that we tackle inequality around sex, around
[00:14:13] disability, around race, but I don't think we've talked enough about class and how that has an
[00:14:17] impact and what people go to achieve later on in their lives, so a community like
[00:14:21] mine in Sunderland, there are amazing young people of such talent. want to
[00:14:25] achieve so much, but actually by virtue of where they're from, family background,
[00:14:29] family income, class, they don't achieve all that all that they should, and we as a
[00:14:33] country are poorer because of it. i also think government, when we're thinking about
[00:14:37] public services, about how we deliver things, we shouldn't just be thinking
[00:14:40] about areas like sex and race and disability, they're essential, that has to
[00:14:44] continue, but also what about class, why is it for
[00:14:48] example that you know if you're from a working class background, you're far less likely
[00:14:52] now to get on in the arts, in media, in law, things. haven't improved in some
[00:14:55] regards, some have, there has been progress, but government should be thinking
[00:14:59] seriously about our job in widening opportunity, and this is what the new unit
[00:15:03] is all about. do you still regard yourself to be working class?
[00:15:07] i'm
[00:15:07] from working class background, but i don't live a working class life now. no, and i'm
[00:15:11] really fortunate that because of particularly
[00:15:14] education, i have,
[00:15:16] you know, i've had enormous opportunities, i feel very
[00:15:20] fortunate to have enjoyed,
[00:15:21] and i want more young people in our country to have the chance to... success,
[00:15:25] now success takes different forms, but I want young people to have a sense of
[00:15:29] purpose, a sense of belonging, and a real
[00:15:32] sense that like they can be optimistic about the
[00:15:35] future, but I was growing. up I heard over heard
[00:15:39] lots of conversations about how whether we could afford to pay the bills, how
[00:15:42] are we going to make the money add up, that's not something my children have to
[00:15:46] experience, and I'm very fortunate and they're very fortunate, you put down that degree of
[00:15:50] kind of, I suppose social mobility from where you grew up to making it all the way
[00:15:54] to Oxford down to education and indeed your mom
[00:15:58] working, because I was just looking back at your history and thinking, well you are half educated under a
[00:16:02] conservative government, I think primary school, and then when you're in senior school you're a
[00:16:06] labor government, so I asked about the go thing as well, because so often education
[00:16:09] becomes so polarized, you have to accept that some of your
[00:16:13] social mobility happened under the tories. I have always been
[00:16:17] clear that the reforms of people like Kenneth Baker were critical
[00:16:21] and they were critical to my experience in the school system too, so the introduction of
[00:16:25] national curriculum happened under a conservative government. I therefore
[00:16:29] find it a bit old that the conservatives have drifted away from recognizing that all schools should
[00:16:33] be teaching the national curriculum, that was the approach that I adopted as education
[00:16:37] secret. but some these reforms are generational 20, 30,
[00:16:40] 40 years, some have worked well, like the national curriculum,
[00:16:44] others, I think particularly around technical and vocational education, there is much more
[00:16:48] to do so that young people to that point about enjoying success,
[00:16:52] so that all young people are clear about where they're able to go in the
[00:16:55] future, um, and university was the
[00:16:59] right choice for me, I want young people to have genuine choice, whether that's
[00:17:03] university, an apprenticeship, going to college, not to have things
[00:17:06] closed down, because they are and where they're from, but to have real choices
[00:17:10] and sadly background determines those choices
[00:17:14] for you a way that if you have more money and you
[00:17:17] have you know if you're from better off family, often the
[00:17:21] choices that are there for you and the freedom that you
[00:17:23] have, they're just so much so much bigger, it might not be better off or less well off, it might
[00:17:27] be parents who work and parents who are on benefits, i just want to move to the
[00:17:31] economic situation because it's been much reported, the forthcoming budget, i know you're not
[00:17:34] going to you're not the chancellor, you're not going to start writing budgets on GB News,
[00:17:38] however, there's much talk about this 10 billion pound black hole in the
[00:17:42] finances, there's much talk about inflation being up to 3.1%,
[00:17:45] there's much talk about the 30-year guilt yield being a all-time
[00:17:49] high or at least as high as it had been since the late 90s. the
[00:17:53] questions are being asked about where's the money coming from? Andy Burnham
[00:17:57] now is reportedly not ruling out early election because he wants to scrap the
[00:18:01] manifesto which made key pledges on not increasing tax so he can
[00:18:05] increase tax. As labour chair, what do you of those
[00:18:08] plans? we were only elected in July 2024 and that
[00:18:12] was for five-year term
[00:18:13] and there's
[00:18:13] a lot of work that we need to do and I'm focused on
[00:18:16] how between now and the next election we deliver the promises that we
[00:18:20] made to the British people, but I think with Andy Bernam as our prime minister, how we demonstrate that the country
[00:18:23] is moving in the right direction, that people feel a sense of optimism about the
[00:18:27] future, and that they feel that our country's best days lie ahead of us. now we've got an
[00:18:31] awful lot to do, and that will require quite a lot of time in order
[00:18:35] to
[00:18:36] do that. but but this room. mansion tax, maybe the threshold will come down
[00:18:40] to 1.5 million, that will drag 270,000 people into the tax
[00:18:44] bracket. this idea of stealth taxes seems rather
[00:18:47] peculiar when we read today two different stories: first of all, that PIP
[00:18:51] benefits are set to double by 2030, that's up
[00:18:55] 19 billion pounds. so let's tax more working people, to
[00:18:59] quote your colleague Pat McFadden,
[00:19:01] to play benefits to those who don't work, and then thanks to the scrapping the two
[00:19:05] child benefit cap, we now have... children with families with children,
[00:19:09] eight children or more, they're likely to get
[00:19:12] £21, more that would give
[00:19:14] them a total benefits of 29,000, which is the starting
[00:19:18] salary of a police officer, so people watching and listening are thinking to
[00:19:22] themselves, why i being taxed more when the benefits bill is going
[00:19:25] up? so on the budget, as you said at the start, um,
[00:19:29] you'll know that I'm not going to engage in speculation and there'll be all manner of speculation that we'll
[00:19:33] read in the weeks to come ahead the budget at the end of October, but 'the
[00:19:37] wider point about how we make sure we have a country where everyone
[00:19:41] can get on, and that's what I believe, yes, I do want to see more young people in
[00:19:45] particular in work, the numbers of young people who are not in education, employment or
[00:19:48] training are way too high, that's not good for the economy, it's not good for any of
[00:19:52] us as side as society, but it's also devastating for those young
[00:19:56] people to that point earlier about opportunity, there's no sense of hope or
[00:20:00] opportunity if you sit in your bedroom for years on and feeling totally directionless, there's more
[00:20:04] chance them being like that if their parents are on benefits isn't there'?
[00:20:07] "equally, some the hardest working people I know are people that are in
[00:20:11] law-paid jobs, they work incredibly hard, they do the right thing, they don't earn
[00:20:15] huge amounts of money, and they deserve support to, and to that point about child
[00:20:18] poverty, one the biggest indicators is to what whether you will go to
[00:20:22] live a good life where you can contribute as whether you grow up in poverty, therefore tackling child
[00:20:26] poverty, lifting children out of poverty is absolutely the right thing to
[00:20:30] do, and there is limit to what families are able to receive and it's right
[00:20:34] that that
[00:20:35] that there is an upper limit on that equally, sure." don't believe that children should be
[00:20:38] punished because of decisions that are taken by their
[00:20:42] parents, but they do suffer the consequences and we see in the numbers of young
[00:20:45] people who are out of work. okay, but there's a central deceat here, which is this
[00:20:49] notion, this false notion
[00:20:51] that the welfare bill is any way being cut, it isn't being
[00:20:54] cut, pip benefits are set to double by
[00:20:58] 2030, the welfare bill isn't coming down, so basically we're going to have a budget
[00:21:02] on October the 28th which hammers people who are
[00:21:05] working, people like your single mom brought you up and helped you
[00:21:09] to socially mobilize all the way to Hartford College, meanwhile those who don't work are
[00:21:13] going to be given a hand out, and and people like Jim Radcliff are saying that is why
[00:21:17] this country is going to the dogs, you can sympathize with that, "working people
[00:21:20] can see it very, very clearly, the working people that labor's meant to
[00:21:23] represent. I'm not sure I want to be hearing too much from someone who's a tax
[00:21:27] exileus to what they think is to the direction of our company, well he's a successful man who did once
[00:21:31] pay huge amount of tax into our economy, and other people who are
[00:21:35] very high rate tax pairs are leaving in their droves under this labor
[00:21:38] government, so we've just lost from Chris Rockoss 350 million
[00:21:42] quid taxes because the labor government is hammering the rich too much. Look, I do get
[00:21:46] the point about working people, people who work hard expect to see..." rewards
[00:21:50] for that contribution, it's why they will have seen in in recent months
[00:21:54] with the new prime minister Andy Burnam a real focus on giving people more breathing space
[00:21:58] around VAT on electricity bills, around bus fairs, around business
[00:22:02] rates cuts for hospitality, which is incredibly important part of our economy,
[00:22:06] I think that shows the direction that this government wishes to go in, to recognize the
[00:22:10] contribution that people make and to make sure that they are awarded for doing
[00:22:13] so. There are of course always decisions for any chancellor a budget
[00:22:17] is to the balance that you strike and how you seek to achieve. but I think what you
[00:22:21] have seen in the last two years is the public finances
[00:22:24] stabilized, we've got the highest growth in the last six months
[00:22:28] of any economy in the G7, that's a good foundation to take into the
[00:22:31] budget, but yes there are cho, there are choices ahead, and this and the economy
[00:22:35] cannot be stabilized when guilt yields are higher now than they were under Liz
[00:22:39] Trust, quite fairly people could accuse the labour government of crashing the
[00:22:42] economy, also on the chancellor John Healey, sorry, why hasn't he
[00:22:46] resigned, he's not going to meet this 3% of...
[00:22:50] DDP pledge by 2030. We have the prime minister admitting in the house of
[00:22:54] commons that now the ambition is pathway to 2035. So
[00:22:58] why is John Healey still in his post? So what both the
[00:23:01] chancellor and the prime minister have set out is that we will get to 3 and a
[00:23:05] half percent and they'll set that out next year in the spending review. Yeah, but five years
[00:23:09] later than John Healey said when he was defense secretary, he
[00:23:13] resigned, he resigned over not getting to 3% by
[00:23:16] 2030. Now he's happy to get to 3% by 2030.
[00:23:20] five because he's got he's in a more powerful job and he's got a pay rise and it's another
[00:23:23] notch on his CV. This is this man unfortunately I'm sure he's a decent
[00:23:27] person, but this is abject hypocrisy from the chancellor, isn't
[00:23:31] it? So we've obviously got the budget coming up next month, but we've also got the spending
[00:23:35] review next year, and that will be the opportunity to set out that path to
[00:23:38] 3.5%. What I would say addition, however, is this labour
[00:23:41] government is investing more in defense than any time since the cold war, we are
[00:23:45] serious about defending our country as much as hely wants, wanted when
[00:23:49] he was defend. secretary, it's amazing how he's moved the goal post, isn't it? we are
[00:23:53] serious about investing in defense given all the threats that we see
[00:23:56] internationally, and I think you can judge us by our record in terms the defense investment
[00:24:00] plan and also the record levels of investment that we're putting into defense, the opposition
[00:24:04] leader has suggested that he's fidling while um Russia
[00:24:08] threatens uh Europe once again, we had very serious threats from
[00:24:11] Putin over the weekend, I put to you that if the pip
[00:24:15] benefit bill is going up by 19 billion and John
[00:24:19] Healey is... isn't going to meet the 3% of GDP target, then you are
[00:24:23] prioritizing welfare over warfare, that's a perfectly fair criticism that you
[00:24:27] must accept. the threats that we face are grave and this is a really a
[00:24:31] perilous time for for our country in terms the
[00:24:34] international threats that we face and what we see. however, I'm not
[00:24:38] really sure I want to hear the advice of Kemy Badnock on this topic given that they never
[00:24:42] reached the NATO level when they were in government, in fact it was under the last labor
[00:24:46] government that we delivered it. they hollowed out the armed forces. "they
[00:24:50] didn't invest in our defense, we are now we are now doing
[00:24:54] that, well they were, they were accused by their own former defense secretary of hollowing out the
[00:24:58] armed forces, we are investing in defense,
[00:25:02] it is right that we do that, but I do agree that we need to look at how
[00:25:06] we bring down the social security budget, because clearly we do not want
[00:25:09] people to be out of work, especially young people, but in order to do that we've got
[00:25:13] to make sure that we're investing in what matters to get young people
[00:25:17] back into work and back into training and education very." quick question on donations
[00:25:21] because I know you've been heavily critical of reform and this 72 million that's coming from those
[00:25:25] two crypto billionaires, but hasn't democracy been for sale for
[00:25:28] decades, particularly when it comes to the trade unions, giving money to
[00:25:32] labor, labor then comes out with the legislation that they support,
[00:25:36] so it's not even cash for questions, it's actually cash for laws. I will
[00:25:40] always defend the link between uh the labor party and our trade unions, they help
[00:25:44] to found the labor party, they represent the voice of working people, it's still
[00:25:48] democracy for sale isn't it?
[00:25:50] that means is um you have um social
[00:25:53] workers um catering assistants, teaching
[00:25:57] assistants, welders, they contribute a couple of quid every month
[00:26:01] into their political pot through the... the central point is it influenceces
[00:26:04] policy, so it's no different to what you're accusing reform of, I think there is a world
[00:26:08] of difference between someone on law pay working a school, contributing through their
[00:26:12] trade union to some dodgy crypto money drifting into British
[00:26:16] politics, I just don't think employment rights bill, but they
[00:26:20] that comes directly from often quite low-paid, low low-paid
[00:26:23] workers pay a small amount every month to their union so that their
[00:26:27] union says to us the labour party, we want to make sure that people in those
[00:26:31] jobs are represented. "I take that seriously,
[00:26:33] and I'm really proud of what we've delivered on workers rights, because I to your to what we've been
[00:26:37] discussing earlier, I think if you work hard and you do the right thing, then there should be
[00:26:41] reasonable expectations about sick pay, about knowing how
[00:26:45] much, how many hours you're going to work every month, I think that is fundamental to
[00:26:48] people seeing that work is the root out of poverty and feeling that their
[00:26:52] contribution is being valued and recognized. Brigit Philipson, thank you so much for coming
[00:26:56] into the studio and for your time. Thank you very much
[00:27:00] to bridget phillips and there up next shadow chief. secretary to the treasury Richard
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[00:30:29] welcome back to the camilla tominy show on GB News still to come, shadow! chief secretary to the
[00:30:33] treasury Richard Fuller on Britain's economy and the debt crisis. Lisa is
[00:30:37] smart on whether the Liberal Democrats have gone into the political wilderness.
[00:30:40] Economist Gerard Lions on this week's rising inflation and borrowing costs and
[00:30:44] author Nick Tyrone on his new book on reform. But first here's
[00:30:48] your latest news headlines with Bethany
[00:30:50] Elsey.
[00:30:59] Camilla, thank you. Good morning, your top stories from the GB News room. At 10
[00:31:02] o'clock. Earl Spencer says there are similarities between how both
[00:31:06] his sister, princess Diana, and the Duke and Dutches of Sussex
[00:31:10] have been treated by the media. Harry and Megan, recently returned
[00:31:14] to the... from California, six years after stepping back from
[00:31:18] royal duties have been repeatedly critical the press and
[00:31:22] speaking to the BBC, sir Spencer condemned the media
[00:31:25] saying constant daily criticism must be
[00:31:29] cancerous influence anyone's
[00:31:31] life. President Donald Trump has announced he'll
[00:31:35] form an artificial intelligence force and appoint an AI
[00:31:39] SAR amid warnings about the technology. In a post on social media
[00:31:43] he said it won't in any way. hinder or stifle the growth
[00:31:47] the tech as he aims to keep the US a world leader in the
[00:31:50] industry. he pushed back against calls to slow down development until
[00:31:54] better safeguards are in place and repeated comments that concerns around
[00:31:58] the dangers and risks the tech are a hulks. he
[00:32:02] claimed AI is the next industrial revolution, but will be even
[00:32:06] larger and more impactful, possibly as much as
[00:32:09] 25% of America's
[00:32:10] GDP. at least two people have been killed.
[00:32:15] and six others injured in one the biggest Ukrainian drone attacks
[00:32:19] on the Moscow region overnight. Officials in Russia say more than
[00:32:23] 200 drones had been shot down, but fires were reported in several
[00:32:27] residential houses, local warehouse and an oil
[00:32:30] refinery. Flight restrictions are also in place at two airports.
[00:32:34] Meanwhile, in Ukraine, mother and her two three-year-old children have
[00:32:38] been killed in the Kief region. The governor there said the area has
[00:32:42] endured constant hostile attacks for more. a day with
[00:32:46] 31 sites damaged in five
[00:32:48] districts. Ed Sheeren has apologized
[00:32:52] to fans for making mistakes as he opened a solo
[00:32:56] show in Philadelphia. All the singers support acts, including
[00:33:00] his band have quit the current loop tour, after
[00:33:03] the US rapper McLamore was dropped for making pro-Palestinian comments
[00:33:07] during a show in New Jersey. Shirin said that decision was taken by
[00:33:10] promoters, not him, but said he was sorry for his handling the...
[00:33:15] controversy that followed, he described the October 7th Hamas led
[00:33:18] attacks as horrific, but added that Israel's treatment of residents
[00:33:22] in Gaza is catastrophic, catastrophic and
[00:33:26] unjustifiable, and national
[00:33:30] task force aimed at tackling misogyny across society is
[00:33:34] being launched by the government, it's part of labor's manifesto pledge to half
[00:33:37] violence against women and girls within a decade, the group of
[00:33:41] ministers, women's organizations, academics and local lead...
[00:33:45] will seek to root out harmful attitudes online, in
[00:33:49] schools, workplaces and within communities. further
[00:33:52] measures are expected to be announced this week. those
[00:33:56] the latest headlines, let's get back to Camilla. tune in GB News
[00:34:00] radio wherever you are, online, on DAB Digital Radio,
[00:34:04] on tune-in, on radio player, nation player and on your
[00:34:08] smart speaker. just say playgv
[00:34:11] news.
[00:34:20] "thank you for that, Bethany, joining me now is shadow chief secretary to the treasury, Richard
[00:34:24] Fuller. Right, let's grasp the nettle, because
[00:34:28] your boss, the shadow chancellor, Andrew Griffith was asked about this, you were
[00:34:31] economic secretary to the treasury under Liz Trust, yes, so did you
[00:34:35] have role in that mini budget, Richard Fuller, do you now regret the role that you
[00:34:39] played, not less with the role I played, no, but I think there are lessons to be learned and we
[00:34:43] should be accountable in politics." those and the key lesson from that is that if
[00:34:47] you want to have a bold approach on reducing tax, which conservatives naturally
[00:34:51] do, you've got to make sure you've done the hardyards on public spending
[00:34:55] first, and kemynock has been very, very clear about that, fair enough, but but when you
[00:34:59] look back on it, what precisely did go wrong
[00:35:02] and what mistake will you not repeat, because at the time you were praising
[00:35:06] it, quasi quateng was praising it, Andrew Griffith was praising
[00:35:09] it, labor have made mince meat of it obviously and said that you crushed the
[00:35:12] economy, they're not far wrong, are they? well it's well they are far
[00:35:16] wrong, i think um the the most important thing in life is that you have to
[00:35:20] learn how to do things better if things don't go as you would wish, but it is also fair
[00:35:24] to say that budget was four years ago, we're now
[00:35:27] looking at the third labor budget coming up,
[00:35:31] each time labor have had fiscal event, they have produced
[00:35:35] their forecasts and then they've run out of money and then they've run to the
[00:35:39] taxpayer for more money, so accountability runs both ways, the
[00:35:42] conservative party underkemnock has learn the... from that period,
[00:35:46] we got inflation down to 2%, we got interest rates down, the labor party and
[00:35:50] government has always seen the tax payer as backstop because they can't
[00:35:54] control public spending,
[00:35:55] and they've let inflation now go up above 3%. on the high
[00:35:59] borrowing cost today, so i think that 30-year guilt yield is
[00:36:03] now at 5.2951 something, and that's actually
[00:36:07] higher than under liz trust, but some economists point out that one the
[00:36:10] reasons why the market responds more
[00:36:14] negatively. in the British economy is
[00:36:16] because
[00:36:19] I don't think so. I think people in the bond market react to the
[00:36:22] government the day and how serious that government is about making
[00:36:26] sure that when they... money to the government that the the money is safe
[00:36:30] and that's why under Rachel Reeves, I'm afraid under what seems to be a
[00:36:33] continuity chancellor, labor have said, don't worry bomb
[00:36:37] markets, if we run out of money cuz we're borrowing lot and we're spending lot,
[00:36:41] we'll go back to the tax payer and we'll ask them to pay more money, that's why
[00:36:45] they extended the personal tax threshold freeze by another three years,
[00:36:49] that's why they've gone out
[00:36:50] to look for additional tax didn't unfreeze the tax
[00:36:53] thresolds, 2028, jeremy hunt put corporation tax
[00:36:58] but so you're claiming to be low tax party, but that wasn't in evidence when you're in
[00:37:02] power? well, let's be be clear, from the period after
[00:37:06] 20, 2019 to 2024, the public finances
[00:37:10] were shot to pieces by the response on COVID, 400 billion
[00:37:13] pounds spent on various measures to help people in the NHS, to help people with their
[00:37:17] businesses, to help people keep a float, nobody at the time was complaining
[00:37:21] about that, that money had to be paid back, some people were questioning the wisdom of it and
[00:37:25] whether it was basically kind of bomb and... economic bomb waiting to go off some
[00:37:29] years later, and of course now it has, well, that might have included me, but my my point
[00:37:32] is is on that is that that was befell the government, it wasn't
[00:37:36] art and design the government, the problem for the labour government
[00:37:40] now is that they have decided to spend more money, they're the ones
[00:37:44] who increased boring already by more than 200 billion since they came into
[00:37:47] office, so these are choices the labor government, but sunac chose to
[00:37:51] furlow, mean we can have debate about that till the cows come home, there was also of course the covid
[00:37:55] loan fraud which saw... "the government basically fleased of
[00:37:59] billions of pounds, so perhaps COVID wasn't managed that
[00:38:02] well, you can't really, I understand what you're saying, because I I completely
[00:38:06] agree it was kind of an unprecedented global event that nobody had prepared
[00:38:10] for, least of all Boris Johnson, but you can't fall back on that
[00:38:13] and then not allow labor to blame global economic headwinds for their
[00:38:17] own was, can you? Well, no where it's relevant,
[00:38:21] Camilla, but I have to say that lot the problems in the UK
[00:38:24] economy, lot the reasons why labor keep coming." the taxpayers for
[00:38:28] more and more, lot the reasons why labor forecasts about how much they're
[00:38:32] going to borrow, how much they spend are always wrong is because they have
[00:38:36] charted a course themselves that says that public spending is
[00:38:39] important, we want to borrow more money, and most of all because they
[00:38:43] won't tackle welfare, sure, and people up and down this country cannot
[00:38:47] understand why labor is prioritizing spending more and more
[00:38:50] money on welfare, and not putting any money forward for our defense, on
[00:38:54] welfare, by the way, so you've pledged to cut the welfare bill, by 23 billion,
[00:38:58] but today we learn from the Sunday Times that PIP payments alone are
[00:39:02] going to go up by 19 billion by 2030, yes, so
[00:39:06] really that means that you're only cutting the welfare bill by 5 billion
[00:39:10] because you're cutting a cut or you're cutting a rise, I should
[00:39:14] say, if you're going to spend, if you're going to spend 23 billion
[00:39:17] less, but the bill at least for PIP is 19 billion
[00:39:20] more, you're not cutting welfare that by that much at all, well
[00:39:24] we the the the announcements you talk about that 23 billion. the announcements that we made at
[00:39:28] our conference last year, they were fully costted types of changes we like to make, we've
[00:39:32] made further choices since then, so for example, we would
[00:39:35] reinstore reintroduce the two child benefit cap, that's an extra two and a half billion
[00:39:39] pounds, we're looking at other ways in which we can look to reduce welfare, my central
[00:39:43] point is it's kind of tinkering at the edges and not really dealing with the
[00:39:47] substantive bill going up, i put it to brigitte phillipsen earlier and i think you watched it, i
[00:39:51] said there's a deceat at the heart of this government that you're cutting welfare at all, if you
[00:39:55] look at welfare spending now versus what it will 20, 30,
[00:39:58] 31, the bill is higher, so when they said they were cutting welfare, they
[00:40:02] were cutting a cut to welfare, and I'm saying that if you're on going to pledge to
[00:40:06] cut 23 billion from bill that's going to go up by more than that, or nearly as
[00:40:10] much, you're not cutting welfare either, yeah, you might be more reminded to go
[00:40:14] with reform because they've pledged to cut 50 billion, those are words, camilla, let me talk
[00:40:18] about reality, so I was member of part from 2010, in Dunken Smith,
[00:40:22] conservative mp, had done enormous amount of work, sure, saying, work is at
[00:40:26] the heart of our welfare reform. and we brought for from 2010 to 2015
[00:40:30] and then certainly from 2015 to 2017 substantial changes in welfare that
[00:40:33] meant we had to go through processes of reviewing welfare for people already on
[00:40:37] welfare as member of parliament having to deal with people who came in
[00:40:41] to say mr. i've got this issue with my welfare payments are not going to come these were
[00:40:45] difficult conversations
[00:40:47] to have, it isn't easy to
[00:40:51] that period. make we
[00:40:52] over also these changes, but the conservative government did then that introduced a welfare cap that said we're going to cap the total
[00:40:56] amount of welfare. every single year the chancellor had to
[00:41:00] come back to say whether or not he had exceeded that cap. yes, what did labor do in
[00:41:04] 2019? they blew the cap up high and said we're not going to
[00:41:08] review it again for five years. all right, let's ask you what you will do, so we think that
[00:41:12] Kemy Badnock's going to announce that you want to scrap inheritance tax, yes or
[00:41:15] no? well, we'll see what we're looking a number of issues to do with
[00:41:19] ruling out, not ruling anything out, it's not my job to rule things okay, why didn't Andrew
[00:41:22] Griffith in his speech last week say or commit to the conservatives
[00:41:26] reversing? the increase in employers national insurance that Rachel Reeves brought in,
[00:41:30] well we'll have to see what the conservative team come up with and what Keny Benock says about
[00:41:34] tax and expenditure, my role, my role as chief shadow
[00:41:38] chief sector treasury is make sure that we're looking at ways in which whatever tax
[00:41:42] measures we want to take, that we have we've done the hard
[00:41:46] work on how we can afford that by bearing down on the balloon
[00:41:49] welfare bill, making real cuts, as you rightly said, but also in other areas the
[00:41:53] public sector. it's it's really shocking, if you look back to
[00:41:56] 2019, whilst the productivity in the private sector has gone up and up and
[00:42:00] up, we're still in the public sector below where we were in
[00:42:04] 2019 in terms of productivity, that means more tax payers money being spent for
[00:42:08] fewer outcomes, but but the left will... use you of tax cuts for the rich in
[00:42:12] order to cut spending? well, that's not what the Swedes say, so Sweden,
[00:42:15] Sweden got rid of inheritance, you're talking about inheritance tax.
[00:42:19] sweden, not known for not being, sweden actually is known for being very
[00:42:22] egalitarian, sure, they got rid the inheritance tax, and what their
[00:42:26] review shows many some years later, is it actually what it did is
[00:42:29] it benefited people bause there were more people in work and the people and the economy
[00:42:33] grew. okay, final question, um, because we're running out
[00:42:37] of time, we've got a story
[00:42:38] in the mail on sunday suggesting that and and might want to call early general
[00:42:41] election, touries aren't as ready as labor, neither reform,
[00:42:45] perhaps libdems are ready, we don't quite no, speaking to leasmart in just
[00:42:48] moment, you're not going to get enough votes to form
[00:42:52] majority, so you'll have to do deal with someone, so presumably talks with
[00:42:56] reform are on the table, no, not been absolutely clear, there won't be
[00:43:00] pact with reform,
[00:43:03] labor, i was, no, i don't think i think concerns
[00:43:07] are going to win, can well this country, the polling doesn't suggest Richard Filler at all, you're
[00:43:11] behind labor
[00:43:12] and reform, so the tories aren't winning this at the moment, on the current
[00:43:15] numbers, you are not winning this next election, are you? if we if we'd had this
[00:43:19] conversation in 2017 when Mrs. May called the election,
[00:43:23] yes, 20 points ahead, you'd have said Richard, you're going
[00:43:26] to win by landside New you, I lost
[00:43:28] my seat, we never know what
[00:43:29] happens in election campaign, I'll tell you this, if I had to choose someone I wanted leading my
[00:43:33] party or any party into an election to win, it'd be kemmy back, I know, but you'd
[00:43:37] rather do deal with Nidol Farage than you would Andy Burnam, or indeed... Zak
[00:43:40] Palanski, I would rather we win Ed
[00:43:42] Dave, so you're not going to cut your noses off despite your
[00:43:46] faces, if you can form a coalition with another party on the right, you're going to
[00:43:50] do deal with reform, and you might be forced to, because neither of you have got the numbers
[00:43:54] right now to form majority, it's a perfectly practical question that
[00:43:58] GB News viewers and listeners would like answer to, we've given the
[00:44:01] answer, like a flat no, even if the electoral maths
[00:44:05] allows labor four more years or a progressive alliance, it's a it's
[00:44:09] a flat. no to an alliance with reform, pact with
[00:44:12] reform, and I'm saying that if we go into a general election, I'm
[00:44:16] backing Kimmy Badnock to win and to win an absolute majority. All right, Richard Filler, thank you very
[00:44:20] much for joining me in the studio on GB News, great to speak to you. Well, we did mention
[00:44:24] the lesser spotted Liberal Democrats, they're not keen to come on the show a day
[00:44:27] we didn't want to come on the show, but has come on others, but thankfully the Liberal Democrat
[00:44:31] cabinet spokesman Lisa Smart will be joining me from their conference in
[00:44:34] Brighton. Stay tuned for that
[00:44:35] next.
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[00:47:52] well. come back, earlier I spoke to the Liberal Democrats Home Affairs spokeswoman Lisa
[00:47:56] Smart and this is what
[00:47:57] she said. I'm joined now by Liberal Democrat cabinet
[00:48:00] office spokeswoman, member of parliament for Hazelgrove. Lisa
[00:48:04] Smart, lovely to see you this morning, Miss Smart. Now you're at your conference in Brighton,
[00:48:08] we can see just about the pier in the background, which is very nice too.
[00:48:12] Let me put something to you though, 72 seats won at the last
[00:48:16] general election, but your poll rating has just, it's just
[00:48:19] stagnated, you're in the low teens and some... people, sorry to
[00:48:23] break it to you are questioning whether Ed Davy should go the
[00:48:27] distance here, he's giving his seventh speech to conference, isn't he
[00:48:31] just a bit of
[00:48:31] a busted flush? so I
[00:48:35] love coming to conference, Camilla, because I get to see all the friends I only ever see
[00:48:39] at conference, but we as Liberal Democrats debate our policy and
[00:48:43] decide our policy here, you go to some other party conferences and it's
[00:48:47] a series of fairly drab speeches after fairly drab speeches, so there's
[00:48:51] real buzz. an excitement here, because you're right to mention the record
[00:48:55] breaking 72 MPs, the most ledems ever, the
[00:48:59] largest third party in parliament for a century, but we've
[00:49:02] also had eight straight years of wins at local elections, we
[00:49:06] increased the number of MSPs in the Scottish elections by
[00:49:09] 150% in May, and we've the
[00:49:13] only person who can convert votes into seats with this level of
[00:49:17] efficiency is Ed David and the lib dems, there is genuine
[00:49:21] buzz around the place. that what might be coming down the
[00:49:24] tracks, we're seeing new labor government and we're
[00:49:28] looking towards the next general election, we've had some huge
[00:49:31] successes in terms the policies we've persuaded them to
[00:49:35] adopt, and I'm excited to see what comes in the
[00:49:38] future. well, when you say that when people think of Ed Dave, they think of
[00:49:42] efficiency, that's not quite what the polsters have
[00:49:45] discovered, and I'm not saying this because I'm just, I'm
[00:49:49] disappointed that Ed Davy couldn't appear on my show and has put you up. instead which I'm
[00:49:53] I'm very happy to speak to you, but it is curious that the Libdem
[00:49:56] leader won't speak to me on GB News on the day, epivol day in the
[00:50:00] middle the conference, but no matter, so when voters were asked to
[00:50:04] describe Ed Davy in their own words,
[00:50:08] 42% effectively said don't know or
[00:50:11] who, and
[00:50:15] isn't that an opportunity? I would just say Camilla that talking to you a Sunday
[00:50:18] morning is quickly becoming the high points of my conference.
[00:50:22] diary, I uh, Ed Davy uh,
[00:50:26] is has a real opportunity, so you're right, not everybody knows who he
[00:50:30] is, and there are some politicians he say mad stuff and get lots of
[00:50:33] coverage both online and on your channel, that's not Ed
[00:50:37] Dave's way, he takes a really, really thoughtful approach to politics, because there
[00:50:41] are some massive challenges affecting my constituence, affecting all
[00:50:45] of our fellow citizens, and Ed takes the the thoughtful position on
[00:50:49] things like social care, you will know Camilla that Sparty. families are
[00:50:53] not getting the care and support they need for their loved ones, there is a real problem with how
[00:50:57] we're funding social care and it involves real thought, real consideration and a
[00:51:01] proper plan. it's been pushing for for us to think about social care
[00:51:04] much longer than any other politician, partly because of his own personal
[00:51:08] story of having cared for his nanna and his mom and now caring for his lovely
[00:51:12] son John. the last labor government under care
[00:51:16] starmer said they take three years to have look at how to fund social care, that's far
[00:51:20] too long, families can't wait that long and say... Ed was part the
[00:51:23] conversation with the new prime minister over the summer, those cross-party talks, looking
[00:51:27] at what needs to happen and how it needs to happen much more quickly. It's a
[00:51:31] serious, thoughtful statesman, and I couldn't be prouder to have him as my
[00:51:35] party leader. I think serious, thoughtful
[00:51:38] statesman may be overstating it a little bit, because he has been known for
[00:51:42] his clown like antics. However, I take your point on care, and to be fair
[00:51:46] of all the party leaders. He is speaking from personal experience and speaking with
[00:51:50] conviction on that subject. How... Isn't it
[00:51:54] the case that even with the last prime minister, Kier Starmer and now the new one, that
[00:51:57] he spent much of his time at PMQs almost trying to curry favor with
[00:52:01] the labor government,
[00:52:02] and let's be honest, the public can't really distinguish. you from labor,
[00:52:06] because you are against proposals to cut
[00:52:10] welfare, um, you're very much in support of things like wealth taxes
[00:52:13] and mansion taxes, and of course, despite being liberal
[00:52:17] democrats, you advocate trying to reverse pass over the referendum and
[00:52:21] realigning with Brussels, don't
[00:52:22] you? so I think it's the
[00:52:26] duty of responsible opposition to agree with the party of
[00:52:30] government when we agree with what they're doing and hold them to account when we don't,
[00:52:34] I don't... think anybody would say that Ed Davy has agreed with the
[00:52:38] government's approach to Donald Trump and some the wackier things he's been
[00:52:41] doing. Eds talked about Trump and the government's approach to Trump at
[00:52:45] PMQs many times. He's also talked about care a lot
[00:52:49] the time. I talked to constituence all every week all the
[00:52:53] time and
[00:52:53] they ask why can't you just get together across
[00:52:56] party and work on things you agree with. There are too many big
[00:53:00] problems facing our country. The threat from Russia and their regression
[00:53:04] in the east. of Europe and it's at the hybrid war that's going on in this country
[00:53:08] now, people are scared about what the future might hold and they want people to
[00:53:12] work together for the betterment of our country. now are you just
[00:53:15] talking about wanting to work together, because at the end the day the libdems
[00:53:19] are there, as I say, your pole ratings in the low teens, you may
[00:53:23] have some kind of role to play a coalition if one
[00:53:27] party or the other doesn't have enough seats to
[00:53:29] form a majority at the next general election, so basically you're just keeping your options
[00:53:33] open, so we know that... "the Libdems are open to doing pact with
[00:53:36] labor and possibly even the greens on the side, and Ed
[00:53:40] Davy in recent times has said, you're open to doing pact with the
[00:53:44] conservatives even after the disaster the last coalition,
[00:53:48] Lisa Smart? So
[00:53:52] I want there to be as many Liberal Democrats elected after the next election as
[00:53:56] possibly can be, because that gives us the most power, that gives the most chance of
[00:53:59] us uh implementing our liberal democrat values in government, and we're a political
[00:54:03] party, we exist to fight and..." elections so that we can get stuff done and you do that being in
[00:54:07] government. I think it would be a really weird thing for us to spend lot of our
[00:54:11] time trying to stop Kemy Bayonox Conservative Party, giving the
[00:54:15] keys to number 10 Downing Street, to Nigel Farage to then do some sort of deal with
[00:54:19] them after an election, so I think that sort of scenario feels a little
[00:54:22] farfetched to me, but people seeing councils up and down the
[00:54:26] country, good people working together when there are areas we agree on, and
[00:54:29] that's actually one the things that surprised me most, I was elected to parliament
[00:54:33] two years ago and the... of cross-party working on issue by issue
[00:54:37] basis is much more than actually
[00:54:39] you see on the tele, but hang a minute, let me just try and drill into what you've
[00:54:43] just answered there, are you saying that you would entertain, and this
[00:54:47] is why Ed Dave's rhetoric has changed somewhat, because I remember back in the
[00:54:51] day he said, we'll never enter into coalition with the tories again, they let us
[00:54:55] down, we had to abandon our scrapping of tuition fees, etc
[00:54:58] etc. you seem to be saying that in order to
[00:55:01] stop Nigel Farage, you would entertain the idea. of pact with
[00:55:05] either Bade Knock or indeed
[00:55:06] Burnham? No, what I
[00:55:10] said was it would be a really weird thing for us to do to fight the Conservatives
[00:55:14] tooth and nail as we are doing in many the seats across the country, I won my seat
[00:55:18] from the Conservative, there were lots of seats across the country where that was the case, and if you
[00:55:22] look at the places where we are second, where we're closest to winning, lot of those are
[00:55:26] currently held by the Conservatives, it would be a really weird choice for us and it'd be quite
[00:55:30] a a sharp pivot to us for us to go from fighting them
[00:55:34] tooth and... mail a seat by seat basis and also some their
[00:55:38] rhetoric where it's frankly it's quite hard to distinguish what Keny Bedock
[00:55:41] saying from what Nigel Farage is saying it would be a really
[00:55:45] weird choice for us, we've had four sitting MPs from the Conservative
[00:55:49] Party defect to reform and I think we're up to 20 odd former
[00:55:52] Conservatives defect to reform and they now new candidates the
[00:55:56] Conservatives have to sign up to reforms policy platform in order
[00:56:00] to stand for the conservatives so I think that would be I would be very...
[00:56:05] 'I can't see a way in which that could work. All right, so very quickly, yes or no answer, more
[00:56:09] likely to do pact with labor
[00:56:10] then, so I'm
[00:56:14] focusing very much on winning my seat back at the next general election, I won
[00:56:18] it in 2024, and I want to make sure I use my
[00:56:22] uh platform to get things done for the constituents of Hazel Grove to actually win next
[00:56:26] time, and I know number of my colleagues are doing the same thing, I want the biggest number
[00:56:30] of, I want the biggest number of Libdems elected so that we have the most power
[00:56:34] after the general election'. and I think everybody is right to look at
[00:56:37] what's going on now rather than worrying about what happens after the next general
[00:56:41] election. there's a distinct absence of no there in your answer
[00:56:44] Lisa Smart but we have to leave it there. enjoy Brighton and I enjoy the rest the conference.
[00:56:48] thank you so much for joining me on GB News in the absence of
[00:56:51] your esteemed. thank you to
[00:56:55] Lisa Smart they're coming up next inflation is back up to
[00:56:58] 3.1% and long-term government foreign costs have reached levels not seen
[00:57:02] since the 1990s. just how wor Should we be? This is the
[00:57:06] Camilla Tomini Show only on GB
[00:57:07] News.
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[01:00:25] Welcome back, joining me now as the economist Gerard Lions, Dr. Lions, lovely to see you
[01:00:29] this morning, we've got this warning for us to Jim Radcliff, who admittedly hasn't lived
[01:00:33] in the UK since 2020, but hey, he's a successful businessman has
[01:00:37] made lots of money, and he suggests that the UK is on the slide, obviously
[01:00:40] he's not alone in the millionaires and billionaires leaving the country in their droves, including
[01:00:44] recently Chris Rockoss who takes his 300. 50 million
[01:00:48] pound contribution to the exchecker with him, just how bad is
[01:00:52] it? well, good morning, um, it's bad,
[01:00:56] what the UK is heading for debt crisis, the good news if there is good
[01:00:59] news is that we're not alone, other countries are in the similar
[01:01:03] position, and it's not imminent, not imminent in terms the
[01:01:07] extent to which you will hit hard, but one can already see that
[01:01:10] financial markets globally are concerned, not just about the UK, but about
[01:01:14] other western economies, the challenge in the UK is that
[01:01:17] borrowing rates for the government are much higher than
[01:01:21] elsewhere and that's reflecting three things, one that bank rate is
[01:01:24] high in the UK, it never came down sharply in recent years as the
[01:01:28] Europeans cut rates for instance, they're now of course raising rates.
[01:01:32] second, UK inflation is very sticky and has been now probably
[01:01:36] for five years or so, and third, there is concern about the
[01:01:40] outlook for the government's fiscal stance, basically the public
[01:01:43] finances, so high bank rates, sticky inflation and worries about...
[01:01:47] fiscal position, hence the UK government is borrowing a very
[01:01:50] expensive rate and that's adding to debt cost and adding to the
[01:01:54] fiscal burden. how much of this is kind of legacy from
[01:01:58] liz trust's mini budget and how much of it is as result the
[01:02:02] labour government and its last two budgets? okay,
[01:02:06] well I think to answer that, I think it's important to put an
[01:02:10] international perspective, because there's a tendency always in the UK to view it
[01:02:14] as whether it's labor or the conservatives fault of.
[01:02:17] G7 economies, the UK has the second
[01:02:20] lowest level of debt of all them, that sounds pretty
[01:02:24] good, most
[01:02:25] but them are a very difficult position, Germany is better than us, but they're
[01:02:29] spending at the moment, but the challenge is that UK
[01:02:33] debt to GDP, that's the ratio the markets look at, the size of your
[01:02:36] debt relative to your economy, that's heading towards
[01:02:39] 100, 100%, and once you get to that level,
[01:02:43] then the relationship between growth and interest rates becomes the key
[01:02:47] issue, so we're a difficult situation, but that comes basically back to your
[01:02:50] question, it's not so much blaming one particular
[01:02:54] government or another, is the fact that in recent years neither the major
[01:02:58] parties has addressed. the issue to get that g, that growth rate
[01:03:02] higher and to get the basically the borrowing rate
[01:03:06] down, which requires the Bank of England to do better job at keeping inflation under
[01:03:09] control, so I wouldn't blame it solely on the mini budget is a combination of
[01:03:13] factors built up over the years, but that picture across Europe,
[01:03:17] Dr. Lions, I mean is it because we've had successive governments of all different
[01:03:21] hues sort of addicted to spending, addicted to tax and
[01:03:25] spend, it's not only us where we've seen this uh tax
[01:03:29] take, reach kind of record post war high that's been replicated
[01:03:33] across other European nations, some of it may also have something to do with
[01:03:37] mass migration. well, yeah, in the
[01:03:40] UK in terms of migration, it's often being seen by
[01:03:44] economists, including the official forecast the OBR as
[01:03:47] necessary way to get growth up, I don't necessarily agree
[01:03:51] with that, obviously if you have skilled migration, that's a good thing, but when you
[01:03:55] have large scale migration, it clearly adds the whole series of
[01:03:59] costs. "the challenge in the UK is that instead of
[01:04:02] investing, either investing in capital or investing in
[01:04:06] people, big corporations have gone for employing
[01:04:10] or cheap, sometimes heavily skilled, it has to be
[01:04:14] said, migrants as well, so migration is a sort of not the
[01:04:17] cause the problem, it doesn't help, but there's a legacy the issue in the
[01:04:21] UK, which is that for years we've not really invested enough indeed over
[01:04:25] decades, but coming back to the borrowing figures so we don't get diverted, the
[01:04:29] challenge." ahead the budget at the end of October is that the growth figures are not
[01:04:33] going to be materially raised higher, they're probably going to be better than the OBR, the
[01:04:37] official forcaster viewed in April, therefore the chancellor
[01:04:41] needs to actually do few things, he needs to recover his buffer, his
[01:04:45] fiscal buffer which allows him to meet his fiscal rules has been
[01:04:48] depleted, then he needs to borrow any more to actually fund
[01:04:52] spending, so he needs to basically cover the buffer and cover increased
[01:04:56] spending, there's a comprehensive spending review next year, but we know spending is...
[01:05:00] already very high, so the question then is whether he basically
[01:05:03] borrows more or whether he taxes more, he does actually have
[01:05:07] scope to actually borrow more, given that last week the bank of
[01:05:10] England decided to sell less guils to the market, we're
[01:05:14] borrowing less in terms of number of guilts we sell this year, so the
[01:05:18] borrowing might be able to be one root out of it, but
[01:05:21] unfortunately taxes are likely to increase as well, but I think he's
[01:05:25] going to go down the middle ground of not going for massive tax increases because
[01:05:29] the... would see those tax increases has not been good for
[01:05:32] growth, so the challenge is unless you get spending under
[01:05:36] control and and unless growth starts to pick up, then the
[01:05:40] chancellor basically has to decide whether to borrow more or tax
[01:05:43] more. yes, but are you saying it's a choice between borrowing and taxing rather
[01:05:47] than cutting spending because we're dealing with
[01:05:49] socialists? no, there's look, there's three
[01:05:53] things, i've argued before in this broken, one is sensible fiscal
[01:05:57] policy and therefore the policy on that front.
[01:06:00] to be to get public spending under control, simple end of second, we
[01:06:04] need to actually have sensible monetary policy that gets inflation under
[01:06:08] control, and that would allow borrowing yields to come down, and third, you need to
[01:06:12] get growth up, growth up requires supply side
[01:06:15] reform, that doesn't come overnight, at the moment it's a k-shape
[01:06:19] economy in the UK, in terms of think of capital k, parts
[01:06:23] the economy are going up, parts of it are going down, the parts that are going
[01:06:27] down are the mory bound interest rate sensitive. "there's lot
[01:06:31] to talk about taxing housing more, mansion tax coming down to a low
[01:06:35] level, that highlights the real problem, when you go down the wealth route of
[01:06:39] taxing, you start to actually find that you start to hit the middle
[01:06:42] classes, housing is already the
[01:06:44] biggest find financial asset for most people in the
[01:06:48] UK, it's the largest asset class, it's already taxed
[01:06:51] incredibly heavily, if you start to tax it even more
[01:06:55] than it hits the market really hard, and bear in mind that if you
[01:06:59] start to..." with the mansion tax threshold, then you start to do what happened
[01:07:03] in other countries, you deter people from upgrading their
[01:07:06] property, and who gets hit by that, sol traders, the white
[01:07:10] van man, and you start to have a real negative economic
[01:07:14] consequence, so coming back to the chancelor's budget, tax increases
[01:07:18] that seem simple politically have very damaging economic
[01:07:21] impact. what would you say the chances are of this mansion tax
[01:07:25] threshold coming down, because we've already discussed on the show today
[01:07:28] - lions, the... notion that they can't really cross the red lines that were set in the
[01:07:32] manifesto on income tax, VAT and other
[01:07:36] taxes, so therefore they're going to have to look to raise taxes somewhere a little bit more
[01:07:40] subtly, then that raises a spector does... it if they bring down this
[01:07:44] threshold on mansion tax to 1.5 million, people will then not be
[01:07:47] improving their homes, it therefore may cause house
[01:07:51] prices to depress a time when mortgage rates might
[01:07:55] actually go up, which is double whammy of hell for home owners isn't
[01:07:58] it? yeah, the property market is very bound, construction
[01:08:02] as well as the housing sector more generally. coming back
[01:08:06] to the big issue is about curbing spending, that's the
[01:08:09] fundamental issue, the markets are not. convinced by this idea that
[01:08:13] there are simple taxes such as mansion tax that can be
[01:08:17] introduced, they're either negative for the economy and in terms the
[01:08:21] consequences for economic growth, or they don't they don't raise as much
[01:08:25] money as you expect, and they have negative consequences in terms
[01:08:29] of behavior. we already tax housing incredibly heavily,
[01:08:33] it's the sec, i think we're second highest in the globe, we tax it
[01:08:36] stupidly through stamp duty, it deters people from moving,
[01:08:40] mansion tax being introduced.
[01:08:42] "on top of everything else just compounds the problem and doesn't
[01:08:46] help, as you say, it discourages people from upgrading their property
[01:08:50] and damages the economic outlook for white van man, sour
[01:08:54] traders and the housing sector more generally. final
[01:08:57] question, how much do you think the welfare bill needs to
[01:09:01] come down by for them to provide for some more fiscal
[01:09:05] headroom for some the suggestions you've made? we've got reform pledging to
[01:09:09] cut that bill by 50 billion, we've got the tories pledging to..." it by 23
[01:09:13] billion, and yet we learned today that PIP payments alone are going to
[01:09:17] go up by 19 billion by the end of this parliament. Right, in answer
[01:09:21] to your question, the markets will take the view that you cut welfare
[01:09:25] spending quite significantly, but
[01:09:27] you need to cut it a credible way. That needs to be credible
[01:09:30] economically, and it needs to be credible politically. As we saw
[01:09:34] year ago when Starmer and Reeves were there, they try to trim the
[01:09:38] pace of welfare spending increase by about five billion a tiny amount.
[01:09:42] in the scheme of things and that caused uproad with the back benches, so
[01:09:46] you need to have a credible plan, economically you want to actually do it as soon
[01:09:50] as possible, but the markets realized that politically it probably needs to be
[01:09:54] fazed in and it needs to be phased in maybe over time, so coming back
[01:09:58] to your question, quantifying it, picking the number out the air is
[01:10:02] not the issue here, it needs to be meaningful and significant
[01:10:05] reduction in the welfare bill, for instance in terms the triple lock
[01:10:09] which everyone picks up um that's that
[01:10:13] so far over the last few years has probably added 12 and a half billion since it was
[01:10:17] introduced back in 2011, so that's small but
[01:10:21] not that big in the scheme of things, you really need to make
[01:10:24] imroads into the big areas and that's the political
[01:10:28] damaging cut issue, so coming back to your question, the
[01:10:32] markets need to see meaningful significant reduction in the
[01:10:35] welfare bill, it needs to be seen, it's credible not just economically
[01:10:39] but politically, but it needs to be seen not in isolate. but in terms
[01:10:43] of an overall economic package that has some economic
[01:10:47] vision and some prospects to get economic growth higher,
[01:10:51] because really we need to get economic growth, the g up and we need to get
[01:10:54] inflation and eventually that interest rate that we borrow
[01:10:58] at down. Gerard Lions here's hoping, thank you very much
[01:11:02] and for joining me this morning on GB News, good to speak to you, still to come,
[01:11:06] reform has received 72 million pounds from two donors, but can the
[01:11:10] party turn money into polling support? and power. Nick
[01:11:13] Tyrone joins me next to discuss his new book inside Reform
[01:11:17] UK. This is the Camilla Tomonmy Show only on GB
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[01:15:24] Welcome back. to the Camilla Tomini Show author and political commentator Nick Tyrone joins
[01:15:28] me now you've written new book about reform what's going on here Nick
[01:15:32] you've described yourself as liberal metropolitan
[01:15:35] remainer but you've warmed to reform yes what has
[01:15:39] gone on what are people saying to you at dinner parties honestly oh what people are saying
[01:15:43] to me at dinner parties is is quite a thing we could take our whole segment up with with that one
[01:15:47] sure I'm sure we both could share our stories one that's good that it's been
[01:15:50] reflected in I've got some negative reviews from left leaning outlets well that's no
[01:15:54] surprise at all
[01:16:04] what he managed to achieve, the fact that he'd been written off so many
[01:16:08] times, 2010, oh he didn't get seat, so that's the end
[01:16:12] of him, and then he you know influences can call the referendum, 2015,
[01:16:16] he didn't get a seat, and then everybody was writing him off 2019, everybody
[01:16:20] was writing him off again, and then suddenly he's got
[01:16:23] basically what for lot of this parliament has been the main
[01:16:27] story in terms of british politics, so
[01:16:31] to me I just have to have some respect for that, so that was one thing
[01:16:34] going in, but also I had the novel idea of I'm going to go around, I'm going to
[01:16:38] speak everyone in reform that will speak to me from the very highest
[01:16:42] level, in terms of donors, MPs, down to local activists
[01:16:46] and just see what they have to say and then write about what happens. All
[01:16:50] right, so it's hard to condense a book like this, but hey, we have to, because it's live
[01:16:53] telly, what are your three? top takeaways about this party? so the
[01:16:57] big one is that i really warm to the activists, i thought
[01:17:01] they were all really lovely, all really nice and not at all what i expected, not
[01:17:05] your racists and fruit cakes and loonies that David Cameron described you kippes
[01:17:09] us, indeed, indeed, actually what i found was lot of very civic-minded
[01:17:12] people who felt like reform was the answer, now whether i
[01:17:16] whether you would agree with them that reform is the answer or not, actually the civic-minded bit is pretty
[01:17:20] important, you have lot of people who are nurses or ex-nurses,
[01:17:23] ex-militaries very... common amongst reform activists and candidates,
[01:17:27] so so the fact that I kind of like them all and that there was no racism
[01:17:31] again, one these reviews, they were in the people that you encountered, obviously they have
[01:17:35] had vetting problems right, of course of counselors that I mean wasn't one
[01:17:39] accused of suggesting that Nigerian should be melted and used to full
[01:17:43] pop, yes,
[01:17:44] I i mean I'm not suggesting that there are no racist members of reform, but I wouldn't
[01:17:48] suggest that there are no racist members of labor or the toris or
[01:17:51] dems, did you find much evidence of in fighting, we've got rumors
[01:17:55] of Zier Yusuf being at war with the conservatives who have crossed over
[01:17:59] the house of commons to go to reform, we know that there's been arguments
[01:18:03] internally of course about that channel forsting uh dan jukes and
[01:18:07] 'james all have had to fall on their swords pending
[01:18:10] investigation and famously there was the falling out between Nigel Farage
[01:18:14] and Rupert Loe nick yes oh which is huge
[01:18:16] and I do cover in the book I do cover uh the Rupert Low sort
[01:18:20] of fallout and yeah that is issue for Naja Farage why do you
[01:18:24] think he falls out with people so easily um I think part of it is he's
[01:18:28] had lot of he's been burned a lot of times he was very much burned in Yukip I
[01:18:31] feel and so he's extra on his guard also I think he has very clear
[01:18:35] idea of how he thinks reform can get to hundreds and
[01:18:39] hundreds of seats and possibly win the next general election, yes, and he felt that Rupert
[01:18:43] Low fell foul of that, whether that was fair or not on Rupert Low, is
[01:18:47] hope it's your opinion, but clearly Nigel Farage has very clear
[01:18:50] vision and he's seeing that through, and do we think that Nagel Faraj definitely
[01:18:54] wants to be prime minister? I asked that because following from the
[01:18:58] Channel 4 Sting, we had a little bit of rhetoric in the newspapers around him thinking about
[01:19:02] some kind of succession plan, Zea Yousuff's names obviously thrown into
[01:19:06] the uh pot. 'yeah, we also had quite a lot of briefing that, I
[01:19:10] mean Nigel Faraj himself had said his family had urged him to just get out of
[01:19:14] this, obviously they'd had threat mades again threats made against
[01:19:17] them, he had sculdeduh the media for being outside one of his children's
[01:19:21] homes, it's all proved to be a little bit difficult, it's not been plain sailing since
[01:19:25] he won Clacton, no, no, no, and it never was going to be, I mean, I do
[01:19:29] wonder sometimes,
[01:19:30] you know, things like the 5 million pounds, not declaring it, I do find that odd, because
[01:19:34] it strikes as a bit naive, and a bit, someone was so much political
[01:19:38] experience, pretty odd move, I mean
[01:19:40] I don't how he didn't understand that they're going to go through everything, they were going to do throw everything at
[01:19:44] you, yes uh, and the idea that oh well, maybe no one will ever
[01:19:48] find out about the 5 million seem seems quite is it naivity or bad judgment? well
[01:19:52] that's a great question, um, could be a little b of both you know,
[01:19:55] and there's criticism isn't there the kind of lack of professionalism around him, is that
[01:19:59] fair? tell us about what you discovered, because they will argue, listen, we are trying
[01:20:03] to professionalize every minute of every waking day and every...
[01:20:07] minute the day rather and also they have got a much more substantial operation
[01:20:11] now at Milbank Tower, yeah, but it it they have
[01:20:15] been exposed, not least by the Channel 4 documentary to have some weaknesses on the
[01:20:19] inside, let's put it that way indeed, well with the Clacton by election, you sort of felt
[01:20:22] that we should have been at least one grown up in the room who went, okay, wait second,
[01:20:26] what happens if labor and the tories etc don't run, yes, do you think they didn't
[01:20:30] war game that's the warm scenario, i think he has too many people around
[01:20:34] him who are probably just applaud as every move and just say 'yes Nigel, you're
[01:20:38] a genius, you're going to be great, and every politician, every single every politician,
[01:20:42] every top line politician needs some people in the room who are going to
[01:20:45] go,
[01:20:46] I i get what you're doing here Nigel or whoever it is, but this is this isn't going to
[01:20:50] work, and here's why, you just at least need those voices in the room, and I'm coming
[01:20:54] at this from the outside, obviously it's not like I've been in big meetings at
[01:20:58] Millbank, but I in researching the book, I certainly got the sense that
[01:21:02] yeah he probably needs a few more grown-ups around him, but also his sense of loyalty to those
[01:21:06] who he's been, yes'. so tell a bit about that, I mean the Posch George, George
[01:21:09] Cotrol, conundruum, on one hand, this figure is pretty
[01:21:13] controversial, he did spend some time a US jail, he did
[01:21:16] subsequently write a book kind of upining the state of things and and talking about money
[01:21:20] laundering and how it could be better tackled, um, he's obviously caughted
[01:21:24] controversy because of his own contributions to the party and beyond,
[01:21:28] maintaining that friendship would be Nadal Farage's way of saying that he's loyal and
[01:21:32] doesn't give up on his mates, critics might say, well listen, you've got to be a bit more
[01:21:35] ruthless than that if you don't want to...
[01:21:37] be tainted by other people's associations? well, indeed, and I think you know,
[01:21:41] frontline politics is very brutal game, and it's particularly difficult for someone like
[01:21:44] Najra
[01:21:45] Faraj, she's a very controversial figure and has lot of people after him, so I understand he
[01:21:49] wants his mates around him, he wants people that he's he can trust, that he have been
[01:21:53] around them forever and ever, but you're exactly right, you probably need fewer
[01:21:57] of those people right now, going forward into the next general election than you
[01:22:01] need people who are just going to clinically tell him what's what,
[01:22:05] how do reform bridge the gap,
[01:22:06] I mean they were
[01:22:07] in the... mid-30s last summer, it's almost as if they've peaked too
[01:22:11] soon, they're now down kind of level peging with labor with the tories behind on
[01:22:14] about 20% there on about 24 average, clearly that's not
[01:22:18] enough to win majority, therefore the spector once again
[01:22:22] and now people think i keep on banging on about it, but we need to look at the electoral
[01:22:25] maths clearly and plainly that if they don't have enough to
[01:22:29] form the next government they're going to have to go into coalition with the tories probably, it's no one else to go into
[01:22:33] coalition with is there, well there's no one else who would consider it, no exactly, but you said
[01:22:37] that the tory revival is a mirage, why? well, because I just don't see any
[01:22:41] evidence of it whatsoever other than stories in Westminster newspapers
[01:22:45] or what I mean is 20% not evidence the fact that they're not dead and buried, I
[01:22:48] mean Nigel Farage said that they would kill the conservatives,
[01:22:51] they haven't killed that party, sure, absolutely, but if you think
[01:22:54] about Kemy getting so much better as leader the
[01:22:57] opposition and her approval ratings going up in recognition of that
[01:23:01] fact, and they still are sort of hovering in the high teens, they're
[01:23:05] still just sort of can't get past reform even when... reformer in such
[01:23:09] a
[01:23:09] you know it's been rolling crises for reform for months and
[01:23:13] we're still seeing them on like
[01:23:14] there was a poll today on them 25% you sort of to me it makes me
[01:23:18] wonder well what if "this isn't killing the reform thing,
[01:23:22] what could? yes, yes, I know, but it's
[01:23:25] almost like not enough to lose or win, just somewhere
[01:23:29] in the middle,
[01:23:30] you need to leave
[01:23:30] it there, name of your book, it's called the rise of reform, the
[01:23:34] inside story of Britain's political disruptors, Nick Tyrone, uh, it's
[01:23:38] available, there is on the screen now, and it's available now, thank you very much
[01:23:42] indeed Nick Tyrone for joining me, coming up next is Sunday with Michael
[01:23:45] Portillo, Michelle Mabel, what is coming up on the show, good morning,
[01:23:49] Camilla, well." "the European Union and Canada, is that a marriage
[01:23:52] made in heaven or in hell? You may not be interested in
[01:23:56] war, but war is interested in you, said Tolstoy. We'll be
[01:24:00] asking whether Andy Burnham can avoid the consequences of war, he wants to hold
[01:24:04] alof, but can he? I've got a tale of madness,
[01:24:08] bravery and murder in the Arctic, that's all about 110
[01:24:11] years ago, fascinating stuff, and then a
[01:24:15] dog and a man will pad into the studio in order to give
[01:24:19] me theater. reviews oh we we definitely want a theater
[01:24:22] review from dog, what breed is it? it's a very small black fluffy
[01:24:26] thing, it comes on every week, i've never inquired as to its breed, it's
[01:24:30] called rapa. all right, we need to wrap apparently, but fascinating
[01:24:34] stuff, we'll tune in from 11, i'll be back next week from the labour party
[01:24:38] conference in Liverpool with host of guests to keep you
[01:24:41] entertained, 9:30 next week, up next though it's the
[01:24:45] weather.
[01:24:52] Today clouds overhead, turtals
[01:24:55] in within. Box solar sponsors the
[01:24:59] weather on GB News. Hello there, good morning,
[01:25:03] welcome to your GB news weather update from the Met Office. High pressure
[01:25:06] dominates our weather today, which means it should be mostly dry, lots of
[01:25:10] sunshine, feeling warm in the sunshine as well. High pressure
[01:25:13] will continue to build from the southwest and that should eventually ease away our
[01:25:17] winds as well, but still a bit breezy at times. towards the far north
[01:25:21] and northeast for most though it should be dry bright
[01:25:25] afternoon, any showers across Scotland that we've seen this morning eventually
[01:25:28] easing away, they're still one or two just crossing eastwards across the far northern
[01:25:32] Isles and much lighter winds compared to what we've seen over the last couple
[01:25:36] of days, and even though temperatures are touch down compared to recent days in the lighter
[01:25:40] winds and in the sunshine, it should feel rather pleasant, eyes reaching into the low
[01:25:44] 20s across parts the southeast.
[01:25:48] now to finish off the day, it still should... remain mostly dry for many
[01:25:51] areas, still one or two showers just crossing across the far north of
[01:25:55] Scotland, but many areas should remain dry to finish off the day. we
[01:25:59] might perhaps just to start to see a little bit more cloud pushing to Northern Island,
[01:26:03] Northwest England towards the end the day, but else where across England and
[01:26:07] Wales there should be plenty of clear skies, starting to turn quite
[01:26:10] chilly under the clear skies through the course the evening, but different story
[01:26:14] across the north will eventually start to see more and more cloud build from the
[01:26:18] northwest and eventually some... outbreaks of rain and drizzle start to push
[01:26:21] through during the early hours the morning, push into pushing into northern Ireland,
[01:26:25] Scotland and northern parts of England by the time we reach Monday morning, but
[01:26:29] to the south of this under the clear skies, feeling rather chilly, in rural spots we
[01:26:33] could get down to around two to 4 degrees celsius, so perhaps a little bit of
[01:26:37] patchy frost first thing, maybe a little bit of fog. This should clear quite quickly
[01:26:41] through the course the morning though, and for much of England and Wales there should be more sunshine on
[01:26:45] the cards, but towards the north still rather cloudy with some rain and
[01:26:48] drizzle. particularly by the afternoon across any hilly
[01:26:52] areas, still feeling quite warm, quite muggy, temperatures pushing into the
[01:26:56] mid-20s, that's it from me,
[01:26:58] bye-bye, today
[01:27:02] clouds overhead, totals and
[01:27:05] within, box solar sponsors the weather on
[01:27:09] GB
[01:27:09] News,
[01:27:18] safe in the harbor.
[01:27:31] Home is a feeling, find yours at housing
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[01:28:12] today. They say it's all about first
[01:28:16] impressions. Well, today's a big day.
[01:28:20] We've still got a few months before I arrive, but
[01:28:24] today they get to see what I look
[01:28:27] like. I've been practicing my
[01:28:30] poses. I wonder if I'll look like
[01:28:34] dad or mum, visit
[01:28:36] imaginator.co.uk. The
[01:28:40] best kind of first
[01:28:41] impression. How
[01:28:45] much is your gold worth? Most people don't
[01:28:49] know until they
[01:28:50] check.
[01:29:05] Get your free postal pack today, visit gbgold.co.uk
[01:29:09] or call
[01:29:09] now.
[01:29:18] feel the heat, feel the power, can't feel
[01:29:22] the heat, can't feel the
[01:29:26] power, the radiator
[01:29:29] warehouse, we sell radiator. prices as
[01:29:33] low as 443 pounds for spoke colors, always free
[01:29:36] delivery, the radiator warehouse,
[01:29:40] radiators, the rock, here at gold reserve jewelers
[01:29:44] we buy and sell gold and silver jewelry, we believe it's best to sell your
[01:29:48] jewelry face to face so we can answer any questions you might have about the items you
[01:29:52] are selling. our friendly and expert staff can help make that process really
[01:29:55] easy. our customers are often amazed at the price they receive for bits of old
[01:29:59] and broken jewelry and it's always a pleasure to hear about their... plans for spending
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[01:30:07] friendly quote: if you need to buy, sell or repair jewelry, visit
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[01:30:20] good morning and welcome to Sunday with Michael Portillo. Truman
[01:30:24] Capote writes in breakfast at Tiffany's Aprils have never
[01:30:27] meant that much to me. autumns seen that season
[01:30:31] of beginning. Spring: on this third Sunday of
[01:30:34] September, you are most welcome to two hours of culture, current affairs
[01:30:38] and politics. With the discovery that some of
[01:30:42] Andy Burnham's initiatives had been planned by Saker Starmer, my
[01:30:46] panel will debate whether disillusion about the new prime minister is now
[01:30:50] setting in. The royal row continues as
[01:30:54] Earl Spencer claims
[01:30:55] to be telling the truth about what King Charles said when Princess Danna
[01:30:58] died, is the...