GBN — Sunday with Michael Portillo
20260920 100000 UTC
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[00:00:00] and jewelry and
[00:00:05] in of of a it's always a pleasure to hear about their plans for spending all that extra cash, so call down of to gold reserves jewelers
[00:00:10] of of for fast and friendly quote: if you need to buy, sell or
[00:00:11] of a repair jewelry, visit goldreserves.co.uk.
[00:00:20] good morning and
[00:00:21] of welcome of to Sunday with Michael Portillo. Truman
[00:00:24] of Capote writes in Breakfast at Tiffany's aprils have never
[00:00:28] of meant
[00:00:28] of that much to me. or seen that
[00:00:31] of season of beginning spring. on this third
[00:00:34] of sunday of September, you are most welcome to two hours of culture,
[00:00:38] of current affairs and politics. with the discovery
[00:00:41] that some of Andy Burnham's initiatives had been planned by Saker
[00:00:45] Starmer, my
[00:00:46] of panel will debate whether disillusion about the new prime minister is now
[00:00:50] of setting in. the royal row continues as
[00:00:54] of al spencer
[00:00:55] of claims in
[00:00:55] to be telling the
[00:00:58] of of truth about what king charles said when Princess Diana
[00:00:59] in died of
[00:00:59] is of the... under siege again,
[00:01:03] rising inflation and the hooti's military advances in Yemen
[00:01:06] expose quotes the bankrupcy of labor's foreign
[00:01:10] of policy, and quotes, according to one defense analyst, what are the
[00:01:13] government's options? concking from the telegraph
[00:01:18] of in will appine. Canada is set to become the first associate
[00:01:21] member
[00:01:23] of of the European Union,
[00:01:24] of is that a marriage made in heaven or in
[00:01:26] hell? all of that, and indeed much
[00:01:30] more, but first the latest news headlines with Bethany
[00:01:33] of
[00:01:36] a Elsey.
[00:01:41] of of Michael, thank you. Good morning, your top stories from the GB
[00:01:43] of news room at one minute past
[00:01:44] a 11. Earl
[00:01:45] in Spencer says there are similarities between how both his
[00:01:49] of of a sister, of princess Diana, and the Duke and Dutches of
[00:01:51] of Sussex
[00:01:52] of have been treated by the media. Harry and Megan, who recently returned to the
[00:01:56] a UK from California six years after stepping back from royal duties.
[00:02:00] of have been repeatedly critical
[00:02:01] of the press, well speaking
[00:02:03] of to
[00:02:03] of the BBC, he said anyone being subject to constant
[00:02:06] criticism, it must
[00:02:08] of be of cancerous influence in their
[00:02:12] of a life. It would be really
[00:02:12] of beholding on people to learn from Diana's
[00:02:15] of example, I'm not here to speak for Harry and Megan, but for anyone who's
[00:02:19] of being destroyed in this way daily, it must be such
[00:02:23] cancerous influence in their
[00:02:25] of life. One
[00:02:26] of of of the of problems of with Diana was, she's very, very sensitive to criticism,
[00:02:30] "and of course,
[00:02:31] of I'm sure most of your viewers now
[00:02:33] of think, oh, she had this splendid life, and it was all amazing, and she didn't, she was so privileged
[00:02:37] and so perfect in so many ways, but she was
[00:02:40] a really
[00:02:43] of of brought low by in all that criticism, and yeah, I suppose it's a pity when I
[00:02:45] of see echos of that
[00:02:47] in now. Ed Sheeren has
[00:02:49] of apologized to fans for making mistakes as he opened a solo show
[00:02:53] in
[00:02:54] a of Philadelphia. All
[00:02:55] of the Singers support acts, including his band, have quit the current loop
[00:02:58] tour after the U.S. rapper McLamorre was dropped for making
[00:03:02] of pro-Palestinian comments during a show
[00:03:04] of in of New Jersey. Sheeren said that
[00:03:08] of of decision was taken by promoters, not him, but he said he was
[00:03:10] of sorry for his handling
[00:03:15] in of the controversy that of followed. I don't want to disappoint fans and I've never wanted to be an
[00:03:17] in activist musician, but this has put me in
[00:03:19] of the middle of an important and passionate argument about freedom of speech
[00:03:23] and the most complex political issue on the
[00:03:25] of
[00:03:27] of planet. Well, he described the October 7th. 'sled attacks as
[00:03:31] horrific, but
[00:03:32] a said Israel's treatment of residents in Gaza
[00:03:35] of is catastrophic and
[00:03:36] a unjustifiable. The conservatives are calling
[00:03:40] on labor to cut welfare spending
[00:03:42] of at of next month's budget, warning the government must
[00:03:45] a confront of what they've described as the grim reality of Britain's economic
[00:03:49] of peril. The round
[00:03:50] of comes in as inflation reaches five month high
[00:03:52] of of 3.1% with Chancellor John Healey due to deliver the
[00:03:56] budget at the end of October, but
[00:03:58] of Bridget of Philipson insists'. benefits
[00:04:00] me support young people into work and lifts children
[00:04:04] of out of
[00:04:08] of of
[00:04:08] a poverty.
[00:04:10] of of At least two people have been killed and six others injured
[00:04:13] of in one
[00:04:13] of the biggest Ukrainian drone attacks on the Moscow region
[00:04:17] of overnight. of
[00:04:18] of Officials in Russia say more than 200 drones had
[00:04:20] of been shot down, but fires were reported
[00:04:23] in in
[00:04:23] of several residential houses, local warehouse and an
[00:04:27] oil refinery. Flight
[00:04:29] of a of restrictions are also in place at two airports. Meanwhile, in Ukraine,
[00:04:33] mother
[00:04:33] of and her two three-year-old children have been killed in the Kief
[00:04:37] region. The governor there said that
[00:04:39] of area
[00:04:39] of of has endured
[00:04:41] of constant of hostile attacks for more than a day with 31 sights
[00:04:44] damaged
[00:04:45] of in five
[00:04:47] of districts. President Donald Trump has
[00:04:49] a announced he'll form an artificial intelligence force and appoint
[00:04:53] an AI
[00:04:55] of of SAR amid
[00:04:57] of of warnings about the technology. In a post on
[00:04:58] of social media he said it won't in anyway. or stifle the growth
[00:05:03] of
[00:05:05] in of the tech is he aims to keep the US a world of leader in the industry. he pushed back against
[00:05:07] in calls to slow down
[00:05:08] of the
[00:05:08] of development of AI until better
[00:05:10] of
[00:05:10] in safegards are in place, repeating comments that concerns around the dangers
[00:05:14] and risks are a hulks. You're up to date for
[00:05:18] now, I'll be back with more an
[00:05:19] hour. Take the GB News
[00:05:23] family with you any device. As long as you have an internet
[00:05:26] connection, tune into GB News anywhere on the planet or
[00:05:30] beyond.
[00:05:44] "thank you very much, bet arriving in number 10, Andy Burman
[00:05:48] devolved fiscal powers to mayors, he cut bus fairs and reduced
[00:05:52] VAT on electricity bills, portraying himself as new start
[00:05:56] after the lacklustter years of secure Starmer, but
[00:05:59] now it has emerged that such policies were being planned by his
[00:06:02] predecessor. two calendar months after becoming prime minister, the decision
[00:06:06] on permitting the development the Rose Bank Oil field is
[00:06:10] stalled and there's no..." to raise defense spending to
[00:06:14] 3% of GDP by 2030. reform of public
[00:06:17] services seems unlikely, but tax rises have begun with new
[00:06:21] tourist tax. so my question is, has the shine come off,
[00:06:25] Andy Burnam. joining
[00:06:26] me now is my panel journalist and broadcaster Linda Deuvely and former
[00:06:30] labour counselor Sebastian Salic. very good to see you
[00:06:34] both. Sebastian, yes, what do you think? what what is
[00:06:38] new about Andy Burnham? obviously the presentation is new,
[00:06:42] but many policies new, well he's in difficult position isn't he, because he's still
[00:06:45] bounds to the manifesto that Starmer stood and won on, so there's only
[00:06:49] so much he can do that is radically different from his predecessor, I think at the moment it's been
[00:06:53] around Coms as you say, and that's your job in the early days and most people
[00:06:57] who uh are voters in this country don't follow politics as closely as anybody
[00:07:01] watching this program uh and so his job now is to introduce himself to them
[00:07:05] and to set the right tone and that was something that Starmer got wrong, he came out very
[00:07:08] early um with uh with the the attacks on
[00:07:12] um on uh elderly people and um, I'm
[00:07:16] forgetting the word here, winter fuel, that's what I'm looking for, I would set the
[00:07:20] tone terribly, and that was a real error in the early days and Burnham's done well to avoid that
[00:07:23] so far, the problem is though that any prime minister from any
[00:07:27] party has limited goodwill in this economic environment, and so he has
[00:07:30] to to build that while he can, and um, hope it doesn't erode, but
[00:07:34] it will eventually
[00:07:35] come off, that's the problem, your analysis, he's avoided mistakes by avoiding policies,
[00:07:39] but that can't continue, no, and and that's why I think the big risk of... is the budget
[00:07:43] um and so I mean we we may well get into the conversation about when the next general election should
[00:07:47] be um there is certainly case for calling it early
[00:07:51] riding on that good will extending your term and then being able to do what you really want to do
[00:07:55] a new manifesto but before we even get to the budget do you
[00:07:59] think that some people are already feeling some disappointment in other words do you
[00:08:02] think the labor showing in the polls is likely to
[00:08:06] increase under present circumstances or do you think it's probably reached
[00:08:10] its high point? well when you look at his individual ratings, he's he's net
[00:08:14] positive, which is remarkable, because quite often you see new prime minister come in and
[00:08:17] instantly their favorability plumits and he's the only party leader who has a positive rating at
[00:08:21] the moment, so that's something positive to take uh, whether labor can maintain that
[00:08:25] position in the polls, um, hope so, but
[00:08:29] it's not necessarily guaranteed, because we are going to get into policy,
[00:08:32] it is going to get murky, there are no nice levers you can pull, he's going to
[00:08:36] have to make decisions that upset people, and i think that is going to road labor's poll
[00:08:40] poll lead, broadly speaking, do you think he
[00:08:44] continues to enjoy the burn and bounce, or do you think to some extent the
[00:08:47] shine is coming off? no, I think to some extent the shine has come off, and
[00:08:51] Sebastian's exactly right, when you first get into power, com's is incredibly
[00:08:55] important, and and he is a good communicator, it's certainly
[00:08:59] style-wise and he's interested in in writing good content, but the
[00:09:03] problem is we're a part of history now, political
[00:09:06] history where we need some really, really strong moves and he
[00:09:10] has failed to do that, you know, you can say... that normally what happens is
[00:09:13] this, this and this, but we are not in normal times, we know that we have to
[00:09:17] get defense spending to 3% of GDP by
[00:09:21] 2030, and even more, we have to get it to 3.5% by
[00:09:24] 2035. now that is incredibly difficult thing to
[00:09:28] do, plus we absolutely know that public spending has to be
[00:09:32] cut, that much must be clear to most people, and he's not really
[00:09:36] address that, and what worries me is that he's quite a
[00:09:39] performative um politician, "and that doesn't fill me with
[00:09:43] confidence, I'm just going to look here because I made note of it, when I listened to him in the commons
[00:09:47] recently, he said we do everything to support our national
[00:09:51] security, but it can't come at the expense of social security.
[00:09:54] now that's a very glib line, it it was clearly rehearsed line, and he has
[00:09:58] a line that you could immediately see delighted the tories,
[00:10:02] and indeed it may delighted people like Putin, yeah, it
[00:10:06] it was just, I just would not have uttered that phrase, I think you know
[00:10:10] what, we live in perious..." times, we need
[00:10:14] serious politicians, not performative politicians,
[00:10:18] even on the style side, what has happened to number 10 the
[00:10:21] north, how do we feel about him and the prime minister of Canada? wearing
[00:10:25] football scarves are the little videos that he makes, mean
[00:10:29] i don't see them, but do you think they they continue to be effective? well, what did
[00:10:33] um Andy Halldaine say this week? he said he was exactly the same
[00:10:37] as Kier Starmer only he had better tik tok, and I think that's
[00:10:41] true. I think Andy Burnham is very adept, you
[00:10:45] he'll talk about, well I have my meetings, I don't suppose he does anymore at Greg's
[00:10:48] and and I enjoy a cup of coffee with my mates etc
[00:10:52] etc. and and and he appears to have the common... touch, but
[00:10:56] what I am saying is right now, in these times, I think we
[00:10:59] need serious politicians, proper statesman like
[00:11:03] politicians who can take the bull by the horns and start developing
[00:11:07] policies, because whatever we do, whatever
[00:11:10] party comes up with something, it's going to be
[00:11:13] unpopular, the cuts we have to make will be unpopular.
[00:11:17] Sebastian, you're a sophisticated fellow, how how struck and impressed are you by the
[00:11:21] little videos and the football scarf wearing and so on? So what I'm most impressed. by is
[00:11:25] the comments that they get, you look any feedback underneath anything a politician puts out and
[00:11:29] it's usually very negative and really quite abusive, the stuff I see under
[00:11:33] Burnham's posts are really, really positive and it's people coming out and
[00:11:36] saying, i didn't think this about a prime minister before, I'm really excited,
[00:11:40] and but it's weird like living a dual universe, this is the
[00:11:44] universe we live in, no actually Sebastian, we will have
[00:11:48] to actually do things posting on TikTok will not be
[00:11:51] enoughtion, I was asking precisely about that, 'and the
[00:11:55] dual universe that exists there is that we live in bubbles and for the
[00:11:59] people who are in Andy Burnham's bubble this is doing very well
[00:12:02] but to do those radical political things you need the good will and he's
[00:12:06] building that good will to give him the runway to do that so those two things go hand in hand we live
[00:12:10] a world now where we're beyond the 24-hour news cycle you now can summon somebody on your
[00:12:14] phone whenever you want so as well as being a good politician you have
[00:12:17] to be a broadcaster and social media star as well and we now have a primer minister who has that
[00:12:20] skill set and that I think is more valuable than perhaps I gave him credit for few months
[00:12:24] ago'. one the things that has struck me is that there has been, think a
[00:12:28] subtle change in the immigration position, even over the last two months since he's
[00:12:32] been prime minister, the changes have been that there have there have been these
[00:12:35] demonstrations, citizens if you want to call them that, have
[00:12:39] appeared on the beaches, have waded into the surf and made
[00:12:43] protests about the immigrants, the immigrant boats have got
[00:12:47] larger, and then I think the third thing that has changed or
[00:12:50] continued a trend that started recently is the
[00:12:54] government now says that the burden these immigrants has to be
[00:12:58] shared around, including with more prosperous
[00:13:01] communities, whereas before it never said that immigration was a burden
[00:13:05] at all. yeah, i think that's a very strange thing to come up with, the
[00:13:09] burden of immigration needs somehow to be shared amongst
[00:13:13] all these other communities. mean a, there's the acceptance that as you
[00:13:17] say that it is a burden, but also the reason why there are
[00:13:21] big immigrant populations in certain areas
[00:13:24] it is. is for certain facts, I mean if you look at Hillington Burrow
[00:13:28] for example, it has an enormous number of immigrants because it's
[00:13:32] close to Heathro airport, if you look at some of those asylum hotels and I've worked, I've
[00:13:36] delivered English language programs in some them, they are in areas where those hotels were
[00:13:39] failing, so when the government scheme came up and said, okay, we'll
[00:13:43] pay you for seven years to take asylum seekers and we'll get Ciro in
[00:13:47] to run them, of course those hotels that were failing businesses
[00:13:51] said, many them were failing businesses, said okay, we'll do this,
[00:13:55] you can't now turn round and say we want all these immigrants to
[00:13:59] go into x, y, z chocolate box village and
[00:14:02] say that's because we want you to share the burden, it's utterly
[00:14:06] ridiculous, indeed Sebastian, that's the one I left out that Piddington has
[00:14:10] left the United Kingdom, we'll be shutting off
[00:14:14] the electricity any moment now, I'm sure it hasn't quite done so, but it is
[00:14:17] voted to do so, I mean I put it to you that the immigration
[00:14:21] situation has got worse in the two months since - has been
[00:14:25] prime minister, and I think he said that during the Makerfield by-election, the thing that
[00:14:29] stuck in his mind was that people were talking to him about
[00:14:32] illegal uh migration, but since he's become prime
[00:14:36] minister, I don't think he's found the words either to express
[00:14:40] what people feel about this, to associate himself with the Piddington
[00:14:44] people,
[00:14:44] of whom there are many in the country that have to live in Piddington, he hasn't found the words
[00:14:48] associated himself with them, nor indeed has he found a convincing way
[00:14:52] to say that he's going to make difference to it, and I think this is his biggest
[00:14:56] challenge, not just because of how difficult it is in and of itself, but also because who he's trying to
[00:15:00] win over both on the left and the right, um, and what's happened with immigration is it's become
[00:15:04] completely decoupled from reality, you you're seeing very positive
[00:15:07] statistics for anybody who wants to see immigration falling, both both in terms of
[00:15:11] legal economic migrants and um and asylum seekers, they've both come down
[00:15:14] drastically, but has the commotion gone away, not at all, because this is an
[00:15:18] emotional argument, it plays to - our very core as human beings
[00:15:22] of tribes coming over and that kind of... narrative that people react
[00:15:26] very vissly to. um, so even if we ended immigration tomorrow,
[00:15:30] those people who are angry about it would find something else to move to, so it's an emotional
[00:15:34] problem, not a policy issue here a sense. well, I have to think it is a... policy
[00:15:37] issue, I mean, technically you can say that the number of immigrants coming
[00:15:41] over has reduced, oh,
[00:15:44] it's drtically reduced, no, no, no, I accept that, I think that's a very important factor, but the fact
[00:15:48] is we've got ourselves in so deep and so badly with this
[00:15:52] crisis that is actually turned into organized crime,
[00:15:56] that's actually what you we're dealing with, and do you think the
[00:15:59] people um who are organized, criminals are going to let
[00:16:03] this go, no, they're not, so we see that they are now making bigger
[00:16:06] inflatable. and they taking them to different parts of France, they're making
[00:16:10] longer crossings, which
[00:16:12] is why
[00:16:12] the demonstrations that you spoke of were important, and that has
[00:16:16] to be dealt with, because the situation is evolving, you can't expect it
[00:16:20] to say stay the same, I accept progress has been made, but
[00:16:24] what happens, it's like virus, when a virus has to mutate
[00:16:28] to survive, this situation has to change in order to
[00:16:32] survive,
[00:16:32] and I'm sure those people, making literally millions out of it will change their tanks, let
[00:16:36] me move Sebastian. to the uh economy uh, how do how
[00:16:40] do you feel about the budget? do do you think the budget is going to be a
[00:16:44] net positive for the government? uh, I'm nervous about the budget because uh, they
[00:16:48] really are in these economic times uh, it's just series of difficult
[00:16:51] decisions,
[00:16:52] and again it's going to be a massive com's exercise in terms of what are the quick
[00:16:55] wins, what's the positive news we can push out, like they did in the early days,
[00:16:59] um, if you can if you can dress it up like that, you might get through, but the underlying
[00:17:03] economic reality is still very, very dicey, as it has been for years and years
[00:17:07] and is not exclusively a labor problem, i'd say it's been the case since
[00:17:10] 2008, really, we've never really got past that, if the
[00:17:14] budget represented decisions you would cheer, because decisions is what you're
[00:17:18] looking for, yeah, absolutely, and whilst I agree, there are
[00:17:21] underlying factors that have existed for a long time, I think the
[00:17:25] real change with for example benefits, pips benefits and benefits
[00:17:29] like that, there has been such an enormous esculation in the
[00:17:33] last two years that something has to be done about it, I'm
[00:17:36] very...' about the budget because you've only got three levers you can
[00:17:40] pull, you can increase taxes, you can cut spending, or you can
[00:17:44] borrow. now the red light is on about stopping borrowing,
[00:17:48] because that is a big big problem, so you can
[00:17:52] you can only cut ta boost taxes,
[00:17:55] increase taxes or cut spending, yeah, or both have
[00:17:59] been talking about labor just now, but i think this news today that it is
[00:18:03] predict predicted that the pips payments are going to go up by 19
[00:18:07] billion. 'I think between 2024 and 2030, I think it's taking the breath
[00:18:11] away from all political parties, it's just staggering, yeah, and you have to ask what the
[00:18:14] underlying causes are, I don't think everybody's woken up today and started gaming the system,
[00:18:18] there are reasons that this is happening on Mass and we can think about COVID, we can
[00:18:22] think about the general sense of people's mental health a very, very poor economic
[00:18:26] environment, of course you're not going to be feeling good if you can't hold down your job, if everything around
[00:18:30] you's falling apart, you're going to want to want to get support for that,
[00:18:34] um, so we have bigger problems, and this is the issue, it all stems from our'. economic
[00:18:38] insecurity and you look at all the cuts that we've made over the last 15 years, whether
[00:18:42] it's prisons, schools, libraries, councils, they will have second order effects, so just
[00:18:45] saying we have to cut more is not the panacea that we that some people want it to
[00:18:49] be, there are there are consequences, we've run out of time, one word answer from each of
[00:18:53] you, uh, I advise the prime minister to go to the country no
[00:18:57] later than May of 2027, yes or no,
[00:19:00] yes, yes, interesting, same as the
[00:19:04] panel last week, uh, thank you very much, Linda Duble. and Sebastian
[00:19:08] Sick. The panel will return at noon to discuss accountability or
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[00:19:54] claims that he's telling the truth about what was said by king charles when the princes
[00:19:57] of Wales, princess Diana died. this is Sunday with Mike
[00:20:01] Portillo, only on GB
[00:20:03] News.
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[00:23:26] Welcome back to Sunday with Michael Portillo. I'm telling the
[00:23:29] truth. Those are the words of Spencer as he doubles down on
[00:23:33] allegations made in his upcoming memoir in the book which is said to be
[00:23:36] fully released on Tuesday. Princess Diana's brother makes a range of rather
[00:23:40] shocking accusations about the royal family, including that King
[00:23:44] Charles angrily remarked on the eve of Diana's funeral, we'll forget
[00:23:48] her soon enough. In the latest exert from the Memoir,
[00:23:52] El Spencer remarks on what he calls the lack of care for Prince Harry on
[00:23:56] the day the funeral, and he asked what the then Prince Charles was
[00:24:00] doing there in the first place, well the former press
[00:24:04] secretary to Quinn is for the second, Elsa Anderson joins me
[00:24:08] now uh, Elsa, welcome to the program, very, very good to speak
[00:24:11] to you, can you account for why,
[00:24:15] 29 years after the death of Princess Diana, 29
[00:24:19] years, "this book and these allegations and these
[00:24:23] memories have serviced. Golly, if I had
[00:24:26] crystal ball, I would be able to answer that. I have absolutely no
[00:24:30] idea. What I do find particularly shocking
[00:24:34] is if we will all remember that incredible eology that El Spencer
[00:24:37] made in Westminster Abbey on the day of of Princess Diana's
[00:24:41] funeral, and he pledged to support and look after those
[00:24:45] two young boys, his blood family as he called it, and yet
[00:24:48] he's come out with the most..." shocking and i think quite mean spirited
[00:24:52] allegations about the king and the rest the royal family, which
[00:24:56] clearly will be very, very upsetting to both boys,
[00:24:59] um, so um, i just think it's quite
[00:25:02] astounding, um, and your guess is as good as mine, while he's
[00:25:06] chosen to do it now, but
[00:25:08] - reading
[00:25:08] in in many newspapers reports um, he looks like he's going to profit
[00:25:12] hugely out of this, you people are saying 30 million pounds out of this book, which
[00:25:16] is not even published yet, so really quite extraordinary.
[00:25:21] do you um do you know much about the relationship
[00:25:24] until now between the king and
[00:25:27] his uh, is he the former brother-in-law or brother-in-law, don't
[00:25:31] know whether being a brother-in-law ever is something that fades away, do you know anything about the
[00:25:35] relationship? mean as you say um Charles Spencer is very
[00:25:39] close related to the princes of course
[00:25:42] uh,
[00:25:43] and I
[00:25:44] was strupt by one
[00:25:44] the things that Charles Spencer said, I think he said I've only had Prince Charles or the
[00:25:48] king on the phone. twice in my life, but that seemed very
[00:25:52] extraordinary, so has there been no relationship between
[00:25:55] them, has he played a part in the upbringing the
[00:25:58] boys, I think again, you know,
[00:26:02] anyone who goes through divorce um there's going to be lot of tit for
[00:26:05] tat you this whole divorce um was played out in the
[00:26:09] media as as we will all recall and it was pretty pretty
[00:26:13] vicious um but just going back to the two
[00:26:16] conversations that el spencer talks about you no one can really
[00:26:20] authenticate what was said because there are only two people
[00:26:23] a part of that so
[00:26:26] you know the king can't say one thing the earl can't say one thing bause they're
[00:26:30] the only two so again it is you know no one can verify what
[00:26:34] actually went on in that conversation, but again I go back to
[00:26:38] it being quite mean spirited um and saying that the king was you
[00:26:41] giddily elated about the death of of of princess
[00:26:45] Diana, I mean
[00:26:46] what an extraordinary claim
[00:26:47] and actually how hurtful for the king and for those two
[00:26:50] boys? I suppose the allegations are in two
[00:26:53] parts, I mean gidderly elated is a judgement, which
[00:26:57] he may or may not have made at the time, but even at the time it would
[00:27:00] have been a matter of opinion. on the other hand, he says that he's
[00:27:04] quoting the present king directly when he
[00:27:08] says, for example that um, the
[00:27:11] princesses, princess Diana's memory will soon
[00:27:14] fade. I think Charles Spencer has made the
[00:27:17] point that the king has not denied that, he said that
[00:27:21] recollections may vary, he's used a phrase very much like that that was
[00:27:25] used by Queen Elizabeth II, but he's not actually said
[00:27:29] you're not telling the truth, what do you make of that?
[00:27:33] 'well again, I suppose you just don't want to pour
[00:27:37] fuel on on the fire, and you the king did say you, he was
[00:27:41] mindful the pain that fraternal grief can cloud
[00:27:44] reason, um, which I think is quite clever phrase, and he
[00:27:48] reactive very, very quickly to these allegations, um,
[00:27:52] but again, I just go back Michael to what I said earlier, that you there were only two
[00:27:56] people who are party to that conversation, and uh, clearly they
[00:28:00] both have different recollections of that'. conversation
[00:28:03] um, you know, and I just would find it extraordinary that
[00:28:07] the king really thought that her memory, you know, would fade,
[00:28:11] I think, even though they were divorced, his first thoughts at that time would have
[00:28:14] been, you know, his two young sons, he had to break the news to
[00:28:18] them, and I'm sure his first thoughts were about protecting them,
[00:28:22] so again, I would find it quite unbelievable that he did
[00:28:26] react in the way that Earl Spencer said, but again,
[00:28:29] you know, I wasn't part of that conversation, the only two people to know the truth,
[00:28:32] cardiel and and his majesty. has this crisis come out of left
[00:28:36] field? the royal family must have thought it had enough problems with
[00:28:40] Andrew and very recently with Harry, but now the biggest
[00:28:44] problem it's got is this Charles Spencer book. did they uh did they see this
[00:28:48] coming? well, of course the publicity surrounding the book has
[00:28:52] been going on for some time. um, i
[00:28:55] think um uh we've had been told that
[00:28:58] prince Harry knew about the book but he didn't know
[00:29:01] what the contents were. um, all I would say, Michael, is that,
[00:29:05] the royal family, the monarchy has survived beheadings, survived
[00:29:09] abdications, divorces, so I would like to think this is
[00:29:12] um, this is just a tremor rather than seismic earthquake,
[00:29:16] um, and they will they will get over it, and they all carry out doing the most
[00:29:20] extraordinary work a day-to-day basis that they do, and yeah, we can't
[00:29:24] forget the amazing uh, state visit to the United States earlier
[00:29:28] this year that the king and queen undertook, uh, showing that amazing soft
[00:29:31] power, and... they actually, I think, mended relationship
[00:29:35] with the president uh of the United States that other
[00:29:39] politician could actually do, so I just hope people remember
[00:29:43] the the amazing work that the Royal Family uh does a day-to-day basis
[00:29:46] and uh try and forget about this book. Well, you've
[00:29:50] certainly um helped us to remember those things today. Elsa Anderson,
[00:29:54] thank you very much indeed for coming on GB news this morning.
[00:29:57] Thanks - coming up, rising inflation figures and the military
[00:30:01] advances made by the hoothi ravels in the yemen exposed
[00:30:05] quotes the bankrupcy of labor's foreign policy according to
[00:30:08] one defense analyst. this is Sunday with Mike Portillo only
[00:30:12] on GB
[00:30:13] News.
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[00:33:31] welcome back to Sunday with Michael Portillo. rising inflation figures and the
[00:33:35] military gains made by the Huiti rebels in Yemen exposed quotes the
[00:33:39] bankrupcy of labor's foreign policy. that's according to Con cocklin. he
[00:33:43] highlights that downing. street overriding priority appears to be
[00:33:47] avoiding involvement at all costs. he also calls on the
[00:33:50] government officially to prescribe the hooties as a terrorist
[00:33:54] organization. he is the executive defense and foreign affairs and
[00:33:58] telegraph and con cocklin joins me now. uh,
[00:34:02] welcome back to the program, con. uh, you quote, michael, good to be
[00:34:06] with you. it's good to see you. you quote, trotsky is saying, you may not be interested
[00:34:10] in war, but war is interested in you. you don't think
[00:34:14] much of... policy that tries to stand alof from the great
[00:34:18] conflicts that are gripping the world. I don't,
[00:34:22] and I think the the whole the whole point of having
[00:34:26] defense, and you'll know this from your time
[00:34:28] of working in this area yourself. Um, you've got to show
[00:34:32] strong deterrence, and when needed you need
[00:34:36] to act in defense of your interests and at this
[00:34:39] very moment, our interests are securing uh
[00:34:43] energy. supplies throughout the globe and these are
[00:34:47] being threatened by Iranian batt hooty
[00:34:51] terrorists, they are
[00:34:53] there a terror group for many European countries in the
[00:34:56] US, not for Andy Burnom and and David Ed Miller
[00:35:00] Band, but this is a terror group that is
[00:35:03] disrupting trade, and as you said in your introduction, this should have a
[00:35:07] direct bearing on energy prices at the pr pump
[00:35:11] in this country and energy prices through the winter for domestic.
[00:35:15] humors: um, there aren't that many admirers around the world
[00:35:19] now the war that Trump introduced against
[00:35:22] Iran with help the Israelis, and there might be quite a lot of people saying,
[00:35:26] well, labor, it was then under Sakira Starma, did jolly well
[00:35:30] to stay out of that conflict, um, why do you think we should be any more keen to get
[00:35:34] involved in the next one? well, there's a difference
[00:35:38] between openly supporting a war of choice, which
[00:35:42] is what Trump's attack on Iran was, and as
[00:35:45] I said, defending our interests, now we have lot of interests in the Middle
[00:35:49] East, we have very important military based
[00:35:53] Cyprus, for example, which has been attacked by Iran,
[00:35:57] and and the very least, even if we don't want to get directly
[00:36:01] involved in the war against Iran, we need to protect our
[00:36:04] interests, and we miserally failed to do that during the Iran
[00:36:08] conflict, uh, it was belatedly that the uh
[00:36:12] then Starmer government sent one destroyer out to the
[00:36:16] Mediterranean, then it broke down, so this is the state of our armed
[00:36:19] forces and now we have the hoothi attack in the Red Sea, it's
[00:36:23] important by the way, just just for your viewers, we first...
[00:36:27] "the Iranians have disrupted oil supplies out the straight of
[00:36:31] hormoose in the gulf, now fifth the world's oil comes through the
[00:36:35] straight for moves, so that means that the red
[00:36:38] sea which leads into the sewis canal becomes even more
[00:36:42] important as a supply route for energy uh,
[00:36:46] and the reason that until recently energy
[00:36:50] prices were starting to stabilize is because lot of oil was going
[00:36:54] through the red sea, the hooti offensive..." threatens
[00:36:58] to disrupt the red sea route, which means that we could have two
[00:37:02] the major navigation routes in the middle east, the red sea
[00:37:05] and the straight of formers closed,
[00:37:09] and that could have a really direct impact um on our
[00:37:13] economic wellbeing this winter. uh, top of that, there's
[00:37:16] also there was a pipeline which was very important to the
[00:37:20] export of Saudi oil, that pipeline has been put out of
[00:37:24] action too, as I read it, it might be about a month, before
[00:37:28] it could be brought back into action, but that's always assuming that it could be
[00:37:31] protected against further
[00:37:32] attack. well, it is very
[00:37:36] important pipeline, and as i said the because the straight of horm
[00:37:40] is closed, the soudis um, one of our
[00:37:44] major energy oil suppliers have been
[00:37:47] shipping the their their
[00:37:49] pro their product from the gulf to the red sea,
[00:37:53] 745 miles. now that was blown up last weekend,
[00:37:56] probably by Iranian back militares, the hootes are backed by
[00:38:00] Iran, I should say, um, and so there are now questions
[00:38:04] whether
[00:38:04] the the Saudis can maintain oil supplies at the levels
[00:38:08] they were last month, so again this all adds to the
[00:38:12] picture, and of course behind all of this is Iran,
[00:38:16] Iran supports the hooters, Iran supports the militias
[00:38:19] in Iraq that we think attack the Saudi
[00:38:23] oil line and they're closing the straight to four moves,
[00:38:26] so 'I just don't think
[00:38:28] that the Burnham government can ignore this, and the other point
[00:38:32] I would make is that the hoosies have been attacking shipping in the Red Sea
[00:38:36] now for about three years, when they first
[00:38:39] started saying they were that they're acting in defense the
[00:38:42] Palestinians in Gaza, we sent a
[00:38:46] destroyer and we attacked their bases -
[00:38:49] with with our REF warplanes from Cyprus, we could do the same
[00:38:53] today, but you see actually none of this at the moment and all we're getting'.
[00:38:57] empty gestures from Ed Miller Band and Andy
[00:39:00] Burnham, and
[00:39:02] the the other point I make in my column is contrasting their complete
[00:39:06] inaction on this potentially
[00:39:10] sort of issue that could lead to national energy
[00:39:12] crisis, with the with the enthusiasm with which
[00:39:16] they recently attacked Israel with sanctions and and other
[00:39:20] measures because the west bank situation, so they
[00:39:24] they will act when when it's politically um... their
[00:39:27] interest, but try and when it comes to defending the national
[00:39:31] interest, um, they just sit in their hands.
[00:39:35] um, Andy Burning probably doesn't have very much experience of foreign affairs, I
[00:39:39] can well imagine that coming to the post he has a certain
[00:39:43] distase for Saudi Arabia, uh, you know, it doesn't treat it women
[00:39:47] does very well, it doesn't have very good human rights record, the regime
[00:39:51] was involved in the grizzly murder of a journalist that it
[00:39:55] disliked, but would you like to... describe to the prime minister,
[00:39:58] why Saudi Arabia matters to Britain? I'm not just thinking that it's
[00:40:02] got a lot of oil, why does it matter politically? why is this a
[00:40:06] country that we have been friendly with and should be friendly
[00:40:09] with? well, you make very good point, Michael and of course the
[00:40:12] reason that people like Burnham and Milliband
[00:40:16] have sort of undisties contempt really for the Saudis and
[00:40:20] also for Israel, it's because that they come from the left the
[00:40:24] party and the left the labour party... uh
[00:40:28] despises Israel, which again is an important
[00:40:31] ally uh in terms of military and security uh
[00:40:34] support and the Saudis and to answer your question, the
[00:40:38] Saudis are one of our most important
[00:40:42] intelligent sharing assets in the Middle East
[00:40:46] um
[00:40:46] and we've had this relationship with them for decades uh and we've
[00:40:50] worked on all kinds of areas such as tackling al-qaid
[00:40:54] and islamist uh militants, let's not forget al-qaid. was
[00:40:57] formed to overthrow the Saudi royal family, so the Saudis
[00:41:01] have very, very deep interest in tacking these
[00:41:05] Islamist groups, so our national security
[00:41:09] relies to very large degree in the Middle
[00:41:13] East to having a good working relationship with the Saudis
[00:41:16] and ignoring them in their hour of need,
[00:41:20] which is essentially what the Burnham government is doing at the moment is not in
[00:41:24] our interests. um, thank you, Very, very
[00:41:28] much indeed. Um, I'll just say that foreign office
[00:41:31] spokesman has said that the UK condemns the Huji's decision to resume
[00:41:35] conflict in Yemen, and the recent attacks on Saudi Arabia, we are clear that they
[00:41:39] must.
[00:41:40] their attacks immediately kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Republic of Yemen have the
[00:41:44] right to defend their security and sovereignty in accordance with international law, we
[00:41:48] continue to work with partners to support regional stability to protect
[00:41:51] civilians and support humanitarian access in Yemen,
[00:41:55] and Con Cochland, you are an opinion maker, an opinion
[00:41:59] expressor, you've expressed your opinion today, thank you very much indeed for
[00:42:02] that. coming up, Canada is set
[00:42:06] to become the first associate member the European Union.
[00:42:10] is it an alliance of slow growing economies?
[00:42:13] this is Sunday with Michael Portello, only on GB
[00:42:16] News.
[00:42:24] You're looking happy. Well, the forecast looks good. So you've sorted the
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[00:46:22] Welcome back to Sunday with Michael Portillo: Canada is set to become the
[00:46:25] first associate member the European Union. Prime Minister Mark
[00:46:29] Carny says closer alliance with the European Union, is a positive process
[00:46:33] and will make his country a more effective partner the United
[00:46:36] States. What other than contempt for Donald Trump and sluggish
[00:46:40] economic and productivity growth unites them. Economist
[00:46:44] Catherine McBride joins me now. Welcome back to the
[00:46:47] program. I was just looking at some numbers. US growth
[00:46:51] since
[00:46:51] the pandemic. has been twice as fast as the European
[00:46:55] Union. US productivity growth uh in the period
[00:46:58] 2019-2024 has been seven
[00:47:02] times greater than the European Union, and US productivity
[00:47:05] growth over the last 25 years has been two and a half
[00:47:09] times as good as in Canada, so you might say that the
[00:47:13] coming together the Canadian and European economies is a marriage of
[00:47:17] source, a marriage, a marriage of failures. It's incredible,
[00:47:21] um, and it won't be much... marriage because they'll be living very separate
[00:47:24] lives, um, 75% of everything
[00:47:28] Canada exports goes to the US,
[00:47:32] and it sends more to the UK
[00:47:35] than it sends to Canada, even though we both have the same trade deal, sorry,
[00:47:39] sends more to the UK to the EU, we have exactly the
[00:47:42] same trade deal, so
[00:47:46] Canada is just not geared up to deal with the EU,
[00:47:50] and it imports 50% of everything. imports comes from
[00:47:54] the US, so it's absolutely tied in
[00:47:57] with the US economy, and it's supplying raw
[00:48:01] materials generally, so Canada's biggest export by
[00:48:05] some margin is crude oil, and yet it doesn't
[00:48:09] refine that oil, it all goes
[00:48:10] to the US where it's refined, and those pipelines go north
[00:48:14] south, they do not go east west, so it's the idea that they could
[00:48:18] suddenly
[00:48:19] be sending crude oil to Europe is a nonsense. "canadian
[00:48:23] oil
[00:48:23] is very thick and heavy, uh, the EU's
[00:48:27] refiners, mainly in Rotterdam, are used to North Sea oil, which is
[00:48:31] much lighter, so they don't even have the ability to refine Canadian
[00:48:34] oil.
[00:48:36] so so why are they doing all this? is it just to annoy Trump to to to
[00:48:39] show their defiance of Trump? yes, I suspect
[00:48:43] Kani thinks that Trump won't take two seconds to look
[00:48:46] up the trade figures, which I'm sure Jamison Greer, his
[00:48:50] trade representative has done. already and will be
[00:48:54] think that the EU could somehow take over
[00:48:58] the US's role in Canada and it
[00:49:00] can't. um Canada lives
[00:49:04] on behind US defense just as most of Europe
[00:49:07] does. there is nothing the EU can
[00:49:11] do for Canada that the US does, buse the
[00:49:15] US not only buys most of its food that it
[00:49:18] produces, and agricultural goods have been excluded from the deal.
[00:49:23] "the the European Union hasn't said lot about the details, but the
[00:49:27] two things we know is that um agricultural food will not be
[00:49:31] included, and that's one of Canada's big exports after
[00:49:34] oil, and that Canada will join the
[00:49:38] Erasmus scheme, which is something that the UK has
[00:49:42] decided to join as well, this is to do with university
[00:49:45] students, it's not actually university students, the Erasmus
[00:49:49] scheme is a sort of
[00:49:52] um ' forces where young people can travel and
[00:49:55] you school children often go on Erasmus schemes and they're about a month in France to
[00:49:59] learn French or something like that or French students will come for a couple of
[00:50:03] months. The courses last for two days to year, there are
[00:50:07] no long courses, it's not pure university, that's
[00:50:10] a separate issue that the EU was trying to get with the UK
[00:50:13] called youth mobility, and though
[00:50:17] Canada have also talked about youth mobility, the
[00:50:21] EU has has... use the word Erasmus, which is slightly
[00:50:24] different program. What about the so-called
[00:50:28] reset between the United Kingdom under Labor and the European
[00:50:32] Union, where have we got to with that? Well,
[00:50:35] it is interesting, it keeps getting pushed out. It was the the negotiation
[00:50:39] was meant to happen in June or July this summer. It was then
[00:50:43] moved to October after the Andy Burnham uh took over the
[00:50:46] government. Um, but um, now I believe
[00:50:50] it's going to happen in November. because if it happens before the
[00:50:54] budget, they will have to include the costs in the budget, and
[00:50:58] no one in government wants to talk about the cost, because nothing with the EU
[00:51:02] is free, as Mr. Kani will find out,
[00:51:06] we joined the Erasmus scheme and they decided to charges
[00:51:09] 810 million a year, and they're trying to
[00:51:13] pretend that the first year of that scheme, next year, there'll be a discount
[00:51:17] of a mere 500 million, even though that was
[00:51:21] twice what we were. offered when we first left, when Brexit was
[00:51:25] being negotiated, they offered us half that amount to join
[00:51:28] erasmus. what are the headlines the reset?
[00:51:31] well, it's divided up into five or six different
[00:51:35] sections, the bit that most people will have heard about is joining the
[00:51:38] SBS and they will spell that out for us the
[00:51:42] um sanitary and phytosanitary regulations, it's
[00:51:46] basically food health, animal health and plant
[00:51:49] health um and we are... It's not just the basic
[00:51:53] regulation, they also want us
[00:51:55] to follow all their food standards, their packaging laws, their nutrition
[00:51:59] labeling, uh, all sorts of things that I think most
[00:52:03] people in the UK don't. understand, because it will
[00:52:06] affect all UK businesses will have to follow all
[00:52:10] EU laws in this area, and many
[00:52:14] businesses in the UK, in fact the majority, 90% of businesses
[00:52:18] do not export anything anywhere, right? and yet they will be just
[00:52:22] as affected
[00:52:25] to do with the EU at all, exactly. are there are there other
[00:52:28] headlines? oh yeah, well farmers of having to change their
[00:52:32] pesticide use, even though we present.
[00:53:35] buy allowances, you have to hand in those certificates when you import goods
[00:53:38] and every country and every product has different price on
[00:53:42] it. however,
[00:53:44] incredibly, the UK's
[00:53:48] HMRC has published their own version, which is much easier
[00:53:52] and much quick, cheaper, lower cost, and
[00:53:56] so we've got two sides of government that are sort of arguing with each other. I'm going to cut
[00:54:00] off there just to say that I've read out before how
[00:54:03] bad EU productivity... and Canadian productivity are by comparis in the
[00:54:07] US, this may tell us why. So that's Katherine McBry, thank you very much
[00:54:10] indeed, concludes the first hour, my panel will return at
[00:54:14] noon and they'll debate why no civil servant apparently is ever hel
[00:54:18] accountable. We
[00:54:19] got a book by Giles Milton, the chronicles the life and
[00:54:23] work of one the most intrepid arctic explorers, Stephan
[00:54:27] Kiriazis and his loyal dog will be here to share reviews
[00:54:31] of Thelma and Louise and Golden Boys. and there are
[00:54:35] growing reports that Vladimir Putin is preparing escalate against
[00:54:39] Ukraine and NATO. All of that in the second half at noon. This is
[00:54:43] Sunday with Michael Portello, only on GP News. See you at
[00:54:47] noon.
[00:54:52] Expect warm spells with the odd rude
[00:54:55] interruption. Fox boiler sponsors the weather
[00:54:59] on GB News. Hello there, good morning, welcome to your
[00:55:03] GB News weather update from the... at office: high pressure dominates our
[00:55:07] weather today, which means it should be mostly dry, lots of sunshine, feeling
[00:55:11] warm in the sunshine as well. high pressure will continue to build from
[00:55:15] the southwest and that should eventually ease away our winds as well, but still a bit
[00:55:19] breezy at times towards the far north and
[00:55:21] northeast. for most though, it should be dry, bright afternoon,
[00:55:25] any showers across Scotland that we've seen this morning eventually easing away. there's
[00:55:29] still one or two just crossing eastwards across the far northern Isles
[00:55:33] and much lighter winds can... compared to what we've seen over the last couple of days and
[00:55:37] even though temperatures are touch down compared to recent days in the lighter winds
[00:55:40] and in the sunshine it should feel rather pleasant eyes reaching into the low 20s
[00:55:44] across parts the southeast. now to finish
[00:55:48] off the day
[00:55:49] it still should remain mostly dry for many areas. still one or two
[00:55:53] showers just crossing across the far north of Scotland, but many areas
[00:55:56] should remain dry to finish off the day. we might perhaps just to start to
[00:56:00] see a little bit more cloud pushing to Northern Island, Northwest England towards the end of...
[00:56:05] the day, but elsewhere across England and Wales, there should be plenty of clear
[00:56:08] skies, starting to turn quite chilly under the clear skies through the
[00:56:12] course the evening, but different story across the north will eventually start to
[00:56:16] see more and more cloud build from the northwest and eventually some outbreaks of
[00:56:20] rain and drizzle start to push through during the early hours the morning, push into
[00:56:24] pushing into northern Ireland, Scotland and northern parts of England by the time we
[00:56:28] reach Monday morning, but to the south of this under the clear skies, feeling rather
[00:56:32] chilly, in rural spots we could get down to around two... to 4 degrees
[00:56:35] celsius, so perhaps a little bit of patchy frost, first thing, maybe a little bit of
[00:56:39] fog. this should clear quite quickly through the course the morning though, and for much of England
[00:56:43] and Wales, there should be more sunshine on the cards, but towards the north still
[00:56:47] rather cloudy with some rain and drizzle, particularly by the
[00:56:51] afternoon across any hilly areas, still feeling quite warm, quite muggy,
[00:56:55] temperatures pushing into the mid-20s. that's it for me,
[00:56:58] bye-bye. expect warm
[00:57:01] spells with the odd rude...
[00:57:06] option box boiler sponsors the weather on GB
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[01:00:20] Hello, may be amongst the first to wish you a good afternoon. English
[01:00:24] poet patient strong wrote, September is the month of maturity, the
[01:00:28] heaped basket and the garnered shief. You're most
[01:00:32] welcome to another hour of seasoned discussion on arts, culture, current affairs
[01:00:36] and politics here on Sunday with Michael Portillo.
[01:00:40] The Thirlweral Inquiry into baby deaths at the countess of Chester Hospital
[01:00:44] is unlikely to lead to resignations or sackings. and there can't be
[01:00:48] much hope that its recommendations will be applied. my panel will
[01:00:51] debate why the public service is
[01:00:54] unaccountable. chiles milton has written a book
[01:00:57] chronicling the life and work of one the most intrepid
[01:01:01] arctic explorers. stepen Kiriasis
[01:01:04] and his loyal companion Raffa will join me to share their joint reviews
[01:01:08] of Thelmer and Louise and Golden
[01:01:11] Boy. And we examined growing reports that Vladimir Putin
[01:01:15] is preparing escalate the war in Ukraine. and to increase hybrid
[01:01:19] attacks on NATO states following parliamentary elections in
[01:01:22] Russia this weekend, all of that and indeed
[01:01:26] more, but first your latest news headlines with Bethany
[01:01:29] Elsie.
[01:01:37] Michael, thank you, good afternoon, you top stories from the GB news room at one minute past
[01:01:41] midday. Earl Spencer says there are similarities between how both
[01:01:45] his sister, princess Diana, and the duke. and Dutches of Sussex have
[01:01:48] been treated by the media. Harry and Megan, who recently returned to the
[01:01:52] UK from California six years after stepping back from royal
[01:01:56] duties have been repeatedly critical the press, and
[01:01:59] speaking to the BBC, Spencer said anyone being subject to
[01:02:03] constant criticism must be cancerous influence in their
[01:02:07] life. It would be really beholding on people to learn from
[01:02:11] Diana's example, I'm not here to speak for Harry Megan, but for
[01:02:14] anyone who's being destroyed in way daily,
[01:02:18] it must be such cancerous influence in their life. One
[01:02:22] the problems with Diana was, she's very, very sensitive to
[01:02:25] criticism, and of course, I'm sure most of your viewers
[01:02:29] now... think, oh, she had this splendid life, and it was all amazing,
[01:02:32] and she didn't, she was so privileged and so perfect in so
[01:02:36] many ways, but she was really brought low by all that criticism,
[01:02:40] and yeah, I suppose it's a pity when I see echos of that
[01:02:43] now. Ed Sheeren has apologized to fans for making
[01:02:47] mistakes as he opened a solo show in Philadelphia. All the
[01:02:51] singers support acts, including his band, have quit the current loop
[01:02:55] tour after the US rapper McLamore was dropped for making
[01:02:58] pro-Palestinian comments. during a show in New Jersey. Sheeren
[01:03:02] said that decision was taken by promoters, not him, but said he was
[01:03:06] sorry for his handling the controversy that
[01:03:09] followed. I don't want to disappoint fans and
[01:03:13] I've never wanted to be an activist musician, but this has put me in the middle of an
[01:03:17] important and passionate argument about freedom of speech and the most
[01:03:20] complex political issue on the planet. He went
[01:03:24] to describe the October 7th Hamasled attacks as
[01:03:28] horrific and added Israel. treatment of residents in Gaza
[01:03:32] is catastrophic and
[01:03:33] unjustifiable. At least two
[01:03:37] people have been killed and six others injured in one the biggest
[01:03:40] Ukrainian drone attacks on the Moscow region overnight. Officials
[01:03:44] in Russia say more than 200 drones had been shot down, but
[01:03:48] fires were reported in several residential houses and an oil
[01:03:51] refinery. Meanwhile, in Ukraine, mother and her two
[01:03:55] three-year-old children have been killed in the Kiev region. The governor there
[01:03:59] says that... area has endured constant hostile attacks for
[01:04:03] more than a day. President Donald Trump has
[01:04:07] announced he'll form an artificial intelligence force and appoint an
[01:04:11] AI SAR amid warnings about the technology. In a post on social
[01:04:15] media he said it won't in any way hinder or stifle the growth
[01:04:18] the tech as he aims to keep the US a world leader in the
[01:04:22] industry. He pushed back against calls to slow down the development of
[01:04:26] AI until better safeguards are in place, repeating comments. that
[01:04:30] concerns around the dangers and risks are a
[01:04:33] hulks. The conservatives are calling on labor to
[01:04:37] cut welfare spending at next month's budget warning the government must
[01:04:41] confront what they describe as the grim reality of Britain's
[01:04:44] economic peril. The route comes as inflation reaches five month
[01:04:48] high of 3.1% with Chancellor John Healey due to deliver the
[01:04:52] budget at the end of October, but Bridget Philipson insists
[01:04:55] benefits support young people into work and lift children out of...
[01:05:00] poverty: some the hardest
[01:05:04] working people I know are people that are in law-paid jobs, they work incredibly
[01:05:08] hard, they do the right thing, they don't earn huge amounts of money, and they
[01:05:11] deserve support to that point about child poverty, one the biggest
[01:05:15] indicators is to whether you will go to live a good life where you can contribute as
[01:05:19] whether you grow up in poverty, therefore tackling child poverty, lifting children out of
[01:05:23] poverty is absolutely the right thing to do,
[01:05:27] and national task force aimed at tackling misogyny. across society
[01:05:30] is being launched by the government, it's part of labor's man
[01:05:34] manifesto pledge to have violence against women and girls within a
[01:05:37] decade. the group of ministers, women's organizations, academics
[01:05:41] and local leaders will seek to root out harmful
[01:05:45] attitudes online, in schools, workplaces and within
[01:05:49] communities. further measures are expected to be announced this
[01:05:52] week. those are your latest headlines, i'll be back in
[01:05:56] half an hour. for all the latest from GB News,
[01:06:00] first on the go, get the GB News app. Scan the
[01:06:04] QR code now to download, or visit
[01:06:06] gbnews.com/App.
[01:06:21] Uh, thank you. Bethany Elsey. Whilst the nurse Lucy Letve has been
[01:06:25] convicted of multiple baby murders, it seems unlikely that the highly critical
[01:06:29] report by Lady Justice Thurlwall into the care failings at the campus
[01:06:33] of Chester Hospital will lead to resignations or sackings, nor
[01:06:37] affect the steady promotion of those who have failed. The
[01:06:40] former cabinet secretary Chris Wurmold is one the very few public
[01:06:44] servants that I can think of ever to have been fired and he is to be paid
[01:06:48] more than million pounds this year ease the pain. Why do
[01:06:52] public servants live a world of no blame and no
[01:06:55] accountability. My panel has returned, the journalist and broadcaster Linda
[01:06:58] Dubley and the former labor council Sebastian
[01:07:01] So Linda, first of all, do you accept my
[01:07:05] proposition that in the public sector people are not accountable? I
[01:07:08] think that is by large true, actually. I have
[01:07:12] always been a journalist, but I have done um one particular program which
[01:07:16] help Afghan women learn English and and British constitution, actually,
[01:07:20] and I did that via a local authority, and I was quite taken
[01:07:24] aback by the lack of accountability. I mean, I think it comes from a
[01:07:28] culture, there is a cultural... mindset in local
[01:07:31] authorities and in in um to that extent in the civil
[01:07:35] service where there's there are layers and layers and
[01:07:39] layers of structure and it's possible to hide some... things or hide in
[01:07:43] plain sight whenever there's a misdemean. in the commercial sector that is far less
[01:07:47] likely to happen because you're given targets and key
[01:07:51] performance indicators, you have to hit the mark all the time, and I think in
[01:07:55] the public sector that is not the case. we've only got to look at um
[01:07:58] instance like and I can't say too much because I think there's an aspect of this which is still a
[01:08:02] live case, the Rudol Axigalbana case, that horrendous
[01:08:06] case in Southport, there were six agencies there
[01:08:10] and none them were talking each other. "and
[01:08:12] as far as I know, no one has been accountable for that yet,
[01:08:16] and Lady Justice Thurwell here is quite right, in this
[01:08:20] scenario here, I think it is, there is lot of
[01:08:24] lack of communication between the the managers, certainly, I'm not talking about
[01:08:28] the clinical leads, but the managers did not
[01:08:31] communicate properly, they did not facilitate the safeguarding
[01:08:34] of whistleblowers and I doubt whether any them will be properly
[01:08:38] punished, that very often we think these phenomena as being..."
[01:08:42] kind of fairly recent, let's say 21st century at least, but I would say that when I was
[01:08:46] first member of parliament in the mid 1980s, I remember in
[01:08:50] particular case of very young man who's gone into hospital and had died there in
[01:08:54] circumstances which were not easy to explain, and it took me
[01:08:58] more than six months to get the hospital to admit that the boy
[01:09:02] had ever been in the hospital, let alone get to the cause of death, yeah, it seemed
[01:09:06] like the immediate point was to rally round, was
[01:09:09] denial, to to to to put the... a circle a larger
[01:09:13] mentality larger mentality to be defensive um and
[01:09:17] i fear that it's only just got worse yeah definitely think this is going to happen
[01:09:21] here and apart from the actual
[01:09:24] details the lucy letby case the
[01:09:28] situation in that uh unit it was said to be
[01:09:32] that they that Thurwell heard evidence that the neonatal units
[01:09:35] operated a 21% below the
[01:09:39] recommended nursing staffing levels 21.
[01:09:42] percent below, and that's not an isolated incidence, because the
[01:09:46] national average is 27% below. I mean, that
[01:09:50] is really shocking when you are talking about neonatal
[01:09:53] unit, and certainly when when I listened to the remarks after the court
[01:09:57] case when the inquiry when it finished, the consultants concerned
[01:10:01] were saying, hey, look, we're really, really sorry, this is just
[01:10:05] terrible, and we feel at fault because we could have blown the whistle
[01:10:08] earlier, we could have acted earlier, but I think the real blame lies here.
[01:10:12] with the managers,
[01:10:13] you know,
[01:10:14] so much has happened in this case, but I think very few heads will roll. The point
[01:10:18] you make about understaffing takes me to another point, there seems to
[01:10:22] be pretty low expectation that recommendations from any public
[01:10:25] inquiry will actually be put into place,
[01:10:29] and it's probably because the people on the ground say, well, here's the recommendation, but
[01:10:33] it bears no relation to reality. The person who wrote this report doesn't
[01:10:37] really understand what it's like to be working in these conditions in this hospital on this
[01:10:41] ward. Do you think that's a? as well that there's a disconnect between the
[01:10:44] recommendations and what can actually be implemented? oh, I think that's
[01:10:48] very, that's a very, very good point, the people who write the reports should
[01:10:52] actually as part their reporting go and see what it's like at the cold
[01:10:56] face, well they don't report back
[01:10:59] significantly well, I don't think, they don't do it to affect
[01:11:03] change, there's a solo mentality where they do their
[01:11:06] job and then leave it, they don't pay attention to whether this is
[01:11:10] likely to be implemented and that's... terrible when you consider what this
[01:11:14] case is about. Sebastian, you're to the left of us, how how do
[01:11:18] you how do you react to this question? Yeah, I mean, I think it's nuanced, and we have to be
[01:11:22] careful not to not to merge these two cases together. So with the Lucy Letby
[01:11:26] story, horrendous failings, we can all agree in the Thal report
[01:11:29] um, throws those up to us. We have to remember that some the senior staff at the counters of Chester
[01:11:33] Hospital are under investigation for um gross negligence
[01:11:37] manslaughter, which carries as maximum sentence life in prison, so people are being
[01:11:41] held to encountable. a sense here um with Chris Wurmold um
[01:11:45] there was no suggestions of any kind of um wrong doing on
[01:11:49] his part so it's essentially the equivalent of in the private sector where somebody is heavens why
[01:11:53] was he sack then well mean not wrong doing but yeah surely he
[01:11:57] wasn't doing his job otherwise he would be kept in well there's a difference between we're not
[01:12:01] happy with what you're doing and you have done something horrendous or you have failed
[01:12:04] catastrophically it happens in the private sector all the time where people are paid off rather than being
[01:12:08] sacked because legally you can't do that um so yeah we can quick about
[01:12:12] the amount that he was paid, but that that process of giving
[01:12:15] them a bit of money for them to leave
[01:12:16] you like to quible. oh,
[01:12:17] i don't know, i don't know, the fellow is getting a million pounds
[01:12:21] this year, yeah, um, the last prime minister of a party that you
[01:12:25] support thought that he wasn't doing his job well enough for him, yeah, and got rid
[01:12:29] of him, yeah, now if he wasn't doing his job well enough for the prime minister, should he really be given
[01:12:33] million pounds? well, again, we can we can go around in circles about how much
[01:12:37] you should be paid off, but the principle of being paid off is something
[01:12:40] that the civil service agreed with, that the government agreed with then I would agree with as well,
[01:12:43] because what else are you going to do, he's not going to leave of his own valition and you can't sack him because then
[01:12:47] you run a horrible, long expensive tribunal, so a sense it's probably the cheapest way to get rid of
[01:12:51] him, well he's got a contract and obviously the cont has paid out what
[01:12:55] is paid out, but of course this is in the mentality the civil servant, is it
[01:12:59] not? mean, firstly you're very unlikely to be sacked, but in the most
[01:13:03] unlikely event that you were sack, you would suffer no detriment, mean
[01:13:07] what's what the contract said in this case was he had to be uh, he
[01:13:11] had to have payments so that his pension would not in any way
[01:13:15] be affected at the end of it, yeah, which is why he's got so much money, well if you got a
[01:13:18] contract like that, and what's your incentive to perform well, that's my
[01:13:22] point, i think it's an element of pride isn't there, 'if you go into your job, especially a
[01:13:26] job that senior, you want to do well, you haven't got there through lazing about and
[01:13:30] think and and taking on that mentality, so clearly if you get to that point, you're somebody who applies
[01:13:34] yourself for your own self-esteem rather than for any form of economic
[01:13:37] gain. linda, if you were prime
[01:13:39] minister, you wouldn't be this prime minister, you'd be your own
[01:13:43] person, but if you wanted to do something about this culture of non-
[01:13:46] accountability, where would you
[01:13:48] start? i think i would
[01:13:52] probably start with middle managers and i would start to
[01:13:55] introduce proper targets, proper KPIs
[01:13:59] and I would start to introduce elements from the commercial sector
[01:14:03] into the public sector, whether it was a civil service or somewhere else, because
[01:14:07] this can only get worse, this culture of lack of accountability
[01:14:10] just seems to get worse and worse and worse. I've been in meetings where
[01:14:14] I'm just amazed at the lack of activity that goes
[01:14:18] on, it's like matework, there's not there's not enough of a
[01:14:22] sense that we need to achieve x, y, z. "and that's a
[01:14:25] really big problem. see, another thing I think about this is we're all very
[01:14:29] worried, we all say that we're worried about the number of people have being paid to do
[01:14:32] nothing, but if top of that you say that the rewards
[01:14:36] in the public sector are going to be greater, the accountability is going to be
[01:14:40] less, the pension payments are going to be greater, then apart from all the people
[01:14:44] you're into doing nothing, you you're a lot of other people
[01:14:47] from enterprise into the public sector, yeah, because
[01:14:51] because it's safer, it's it's safer, cosier and..." "and in
[01:14:55] the end, yeah, taking pensions into account better, and actually you
[01:14:59] need a good balance, you need the public sector to be,
[01:15:03] and and different, it's like the people that work each sector have
[01:15:06] different mindset, and I agree that if you've got a certain mindset, you
[01:15:10] want to go one way, you got another mindset, you go another way,
[01:15:14] but you do want your private sector to flourish,
[01:15:18] because that's that's the incubator of ideas, it's how
[01:15:21] business is built, it's how workforces are built, so you have to..." support
[01:15:25] one, you don't want everyone migrating out of that sector going into that one, but there's no
[01:15:29] evidence to suggest that that's happening, and indeed, if you do go from the private sector to the
[01:15:33] public sector, you're taking a massive paycut, you look at some the jobs that are advertised a
[01:15:36] senior level, you're thinking about the government building out their AI capabilities, and
[01:15:40] these people are paid less than what an entry level employee in the
[01:15:43] US, taking the whole thing together, even the
[01:15:47] public sector pension would protect against inflation, those are those are
[01:15:51] big numbers, the pensions are attractive, but you think about someone of my generation, you got to be able to...
[01:15:55] afford a house, you got to be able to afford a family, and the pension is going to pay for that, you need a lot of that money
[01:15:59] up front, and that's why the private sector is so attractive. let let's indeed think about you for
[01:16:02] moment. mean, you
[01:16:03] are accountable, aren't you, because mean you're an entrepreneur of sorts, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you live or
[01:16:07] die by your product, don't you find that a way very very
[01:16:11] attractive, mean, don't you feel a way rather sorry for people who aren't
[01:16:14] aren't held directly accountable? mean, i love the freedom of being able to do what i
[01:16:18] want and build what i want, and never, i was never very good employee to start with, i just
[01:16:22] loved being able to kind of build and be creative. 'um, but look, I think that
[01:16:26] accountability isn't there in the private sector either, you look at the financial crisis and the big bosses who
[01:16:30] took down banks and went to thrive and we're never punished for that, and you look
[01:16:34] at water bosses as well, it's only in the last couple of years we've been able to sell send them
[01:16:38] to prison for their failings, um, so we have to look at the private sector, especially those in
[01:16:41] monopolies like water, who could do lot of wrong, cause lot of damage water
[01:16:45] company, but get away scot free, but you can, I was as had a senior executive
[01:16:49] post at Sky News when I was younger, I can assure you I was watched like
[01:16:53] a hawk if I did.' not perform, then I risked losing my
[01:16:57] job, there's no question about that, and that went for everyone at that level at sky,
[01:17:01] luckily the people who are accountable are politicians, for example,
[01:17:05] in 1997, I lost my seat in parliament, many
[01:17:09] other people too, and you've done very well since, I must say right, yes, thank you
[01:17:13] very much
[01:17:13] for my panel, that's Linda Duvely and Sebastian Salic,
[01:17:17] Jane Tomkinson Obe, who's the chief executive officer at the countries of
[01:17:20] Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust said, we
[01:17:24] know. that no apology or action can undo what happened at our hospital, we
[01:17:28] are however truly sorry for the events that occurred in 2015 and
[01:17:32] 2016, we acknowledge the findings the third world report and will
[01:17:35] approach recommendations with openness and the foam commitment to build
[01:17:39] on the progress we've already made in improving our hospitals governance,
[01:17:43] safety and culture since that time. we're a different organization today with new
[01:17:46] leadership, stronger governance and safety processes, more
[01:17:50] open culture where speaky up is encouraged and acted
[01:17:54] upon we. believe that changes we've made, as said now evidence
[01:17:58] inquiry have created a safer environment for our patients and
[01:18:02] staff. If I have a right to reply to that right to
[01:18:05] reply, it's that we always... that yes um coming up,
[01:18:09] Giles Milton has chronicled the life and work of one the most intrepid
[01:18:13] arctic explorers, he will join me shortly to discuss empire at
[01:18:17] the edge the world, this is Sunday with Michael Portello only on GB
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[01:21:41] "welcome back to Sunday with Mick Portillo. Villamoll Stepanson
[01:21:45] had an extraordinary life story. His obsession with Wrangle
[01:21:49] Island, a frozen speck of land in the Siberian Arctic, sparked
[01:21:52] disastrous endeavor with deadly consequences. Author
[01:21:56] of Empire at the edge the world, Charles Milton joins me now. Very
[01:22:00] good to see you, congratulations, thank you very much, there it is, hold it up
[01:22:04] so there we go, very nice. Now this..." fellow, tell
[01:22:08] a bit about his and who he was. Stephenson wanted to go and
[01:22:12] explore the Arctic. The Arctic was the last, unknown,
[01:22:15] unmapped, uncharted wilderness at the beginning the 20th century. He wanted to
[01:22:19] go there, explore it, and claim it for the British
[01:22:22] Empire. Um, and so he set off in 1913
[01:22:26] on this incredible expedition, the Canadian Arctic expedition,
[01:22:30] with some the world's greatest scientists to explore this
[01:22:33] land. Now, when you found an island, you...
[01:22:37] couldn't you could stick your union jack in the frozen forshore, but that didn't
[01:22:41] automatically make it British, you had to colonize it, you had to send people
[01:22:45] there, you had to establish bureaucracy of sorts and infrastructure,
[01:22:48] and so uh, Rangel Island, which he deemed to be the most
[01:22:52] geoc politically important in the Arctic, um, he sent
[01:22:56] a band of young, inexperienced colonists to go and settle
[01:23:00] it, when you say band, how many, and when you say young, how young, right, there were
[01:23:04] five them, four them uh, were in the um either
[01:23:07] teens or in their 20s, um, and one them
[01:23:11] was young female inuit
[01:23:14] seamstress, ada Blackjack, whose story is
[01:23:18] completely remarkable,
[01:23:19] she only signed... up for the expedition because her son uh um Bennet
[01:23:23] Blackjack was uh suffering from tuberculosis, he urgently needed hospital
[01:23:27] treatment, she urgently needed money and they were offering her year's
[01:23:31] salary to go and live there and sew all their clothes for
[01:23:34] them. I i don't how much for your book you wish to give away, but um
[01:23:38] I think we can say that the colonization effort was
[01:23:41] disastrous, absolute catastrophy for most of those
[01:23:45] involved, and eventually the the blame is laid at Stephenson's
[01:23:49] door, well... had um promoted this this expedition,
[01:23:53] he'd financed it um and you supported all the way through, and
[01:23:57] then essentially halfway through he pulls the plug, he
[01:24:00] runs out of money, he doesn't send a ship, he promised to send a supply
[01:24:04] ship, he doesn't do so, and so these five poor
[01:24:08] people are left on the remotest island in the world with no
[01:24:11] supplies, no food, nothing.
[01:24:15] um, before that even happened, he goes off on an expiration a
[01:24:19] ship, and after not very long, relatively
[01:24:22] speaking, he finds himself without a ship, how does that happen? he
[01:24:26] does, he goes off and he's following what the called leads in the ice, he's a
[01:24:30] cracks in the ice and nudging his ship further and further north
[01:24:34] hoping to discover the arctic continent that's believed to be you know up
[01:24:38] in the in the polar north, it's not there, the ice closes up on his
[01:24:42] ship and crushes it, like nut, it's snapped
[01:24:45] into, it sinks and the crew and the
[01:24:49] world's great. the scientists are left on the arctic ice pack fending
[01:24:53] themselves, but but when you say the the ship is caught in the ice
[01:24:57] and sinks, stephenson isn't on board but it happens, no he's not, buse he's
[01:25:01] gone back ashore, he wants to go hunting, try and find some caribu that they're
[01:25:04] going to need on board ships, so he goes ashore and
[01:25:08] then there's a blizzard, the the ship is carried
[01:25:12] high up into the arctic north, and stepenson never
[01:25:16] regains his ship, so these poor the crew in the...
[01:25:20] are left to fend for themselves, their ship sinks, they're on the
[01:25:23] iceback, and eventually they they make it to wrangle island.
[01:25:27] yeah, lot them survive, and actually I thought your book was
[01:25:31] largely about their captain, whose name slips my mind at the moment, Robert
[01:25:34] Bartlett, yes, a great Robert Bartlet, I mean
[01:25:38] controversial figure, they didn't all like him, there was talk of mutany from time to time,
[01:25:42] but he saved many them in circumstances which seemed improbable,
[01:25:46] he's one the the great heroes of arctic exploration, he leads
[01:25:50] rescue mission, these these men and women and children are stuck on
[01:25:54] Rangel Island, he uh heads across the Frozen Arctic,
[01:25:58] crosses Siberia, raises the alarm, gets rescue ship uh, and
[01:26:02] they are finally the survivors are plucked off the
[01:26:04] island. This all happened quite a long time ago, we're talking
[01:26:08] about what um this adventure is very from about
[01:26:12] 1910 to about 1920, 1913 to 23 really are the dates
[01:26:16] we're talking about, yeah um, but Stephanson in one way. thought was quite a
[01:26:20] visionary, his idea the arctic was quite visionary. well yeah, he was a good friend
[01:26:24] the right brothers who invented the aeroplane, he said this is going to change
[01:26:28] the history the world. planes flying from London to Tokyo will
[01:26:32] fly over the Arctic, and see said this makes the Arctic
[01:26:35] strategically vital for the west. um,
[01:26:39] gas, oil, uh, rare metals, he's talking about these things
[01:26:42] in in this time in the early 1920s, so he was visionary
[01:26:46] and he said that Rangel Island uh stands at the g' way to
[01:26:50] the famous northern sea route, which is the route across the top of
[01:26:54] Russia, now nowadays it takes about a
[01:26:58] week for a ship, a Chinese ship to sell across the top of Russia
[01:27:02] and arrive
[01:27:03] in in in England, so this dramatically cuts down the
[01:27:07] time that the ship takes to get through the far east,
[01:27:09] you know, if it's using the sewis canal or the cape of good hope, it's so
[01:27:12] much quicker, so
[01:27:14] much cheaper, and now of course it's
[01:27:16] melting fast um, and in fact last week the
[01:27:19] first Chinese... container vessel arrived in England using that route?
[01:27:23] yes, so I mean, your book obviously was well under preparation, I
[01:27:26] imagine before the Greenland crisis arose, yes, but you must have thought,
[01:27:30] my goodness, this is going to help my book sales, I thought Trump was running my PR
[01:27:34] campaign, this is what was talking about a century ago,
[01:27:38] absolutely, I mean, um, it's very odd, this new agreement, we don't quite
[01:27:41] know what's in it, but it doesn't seem to be any different from the agreement that America already
[01:27:45] had, the 1951 greenland defense agreement by which America...
[01:27:50] can build bases and station soldiers on greenland and what have you? so we need to see
[01:27:54] the fine print, but um yeah, it's clearly America is
[01:27:58] going to start reopening some the bases it's shut in the arctic. i
[01:28:02] don't want to distract you from your book really. what what what do you make the
[01:28:05] psychology of Stephenson? mean, he was clearly very, very
[01:28:09] brave, he was clearly obsessive, he had
[01:28:13] extraordinary talents, mean as a navigator, he was second, he could just set
[01:28:17] off across the ice and somehow... where he was going and get to the place
[01:28:21] he wanted to get to, and even after he lost his ship, he didn't abandon the
[01:28:25] mission, he just continued it on foot, yeah with his dogs and
[01:28:28] sledges, what is the role the obsessive in
[01:28:31] in in in? discovery do you think? it's hugely
[01:28:34] important and I think the
[01:28:35] one thing that's so fascinating about Steffenson is at this period the
[01:28:39] Inuit or the eskimo as they were always called at the time we look down
[01:28:43] upon as sort of primitive savages and Stephanson said no, these
[01:28:46] are masters of survival, they can survive in the harshest possible
[01:28:50] climate, and he spent several years living with them learning
[01:28:54] particularly how to hunt seals, he said if you can kill seal, you've got um
[01:28:58] oil for your food and for your heating, you've got meat for your food and you've got
[01:29:01] skin your clothes, you know, so if you can kill seel, which is an
[01:29:05] art uh, then then you're you know you're well on your way to surviving in the
[01:29:09] Arctic. He was absolutely driven, he was charismatic, he
[01:29:13] persuaded people to go along with him, often people who are not well equipped to
[01:29:17] deal with the arctic, which is why so many them died,
[01:29:20] um, he was also master manipulator the press, which
[01:29:23] first drew me to the story, he knew how to use the media to his own
[01:29:27] end, and that makes him a very fascinating, modern character, I
[01:29:31] think, yeah.
[01:29:32] It is, it is very fascinating story, it's a man of enormous celebrity
[01:29:36] of global fame who eventually has terrible
[01:29:40] fall. Well, this is what's so wonderful, because he starts the book
[01:29:43] as the ultimate hero. He really is an extraordinary character, a
[01:29:47] leader, you know, can pull pull people along with him,
[01:29:50] by the end the book, he is the anti-hero. Will you please hold up the
[01:29:53] book? Here it is, empire at the edge the world at edge
[01:29:56] the the world, and thank you very much indeed, Charles
[01:30:00] Milton. Thank you very much. Uh, coming up, we
[01:30:04] will, we will examine the growing reports that Vladimir Putin
[01:30:08] is preparing escalate the war in Ukraine and to ramp up hybrid attacks against
[01:30:12] NATO states once the parliamentary elections in Russia of this weekend
[01:30:16] are behind him, but first we're going to have news headlines with
[01:30:19] Bethany
[01:30:20] Elsey.
[01:30:28] Thank you, the headlines from the GB news room. Earl Spencer says there are
[01:30:31] similarities. between how both his sister, princess Diana, and
[01:30:35] the Duke and Duchess of Sussex have been treated by the media, morning
[01:30:39] lessons should be learned. Ed Sheeren has apologized
[01:30:43] to fans for making mistakes as he opened a solo show in
[01:30:47] Philadelphia after the U.S. rapper McLamore was dropped from the tour for
[01:30:51] making pro-Palestinian comments. At least two
[01:30:55] people have been killed and six others injured in one the biggest Ukrainian drone
[01:30:59] attacks on the Moscow region. Meanwhile, mother... and her
[01:31:02] two three-year-old children have been killed in
[01:31:05] Kiev. President Donald Trump has announced he'll
[01:31:09] form an artificial intelligence force and appoint an AI
[01:31:13] SAR to ensure the U.S. remains a world leader in the
[01:31:16] technology, dismissing recent warnings and risks as a
[01:31:20] hulks. Europe to date for now, more for
[01:31:24] you at 1 o'clock. You can now watch GB News live
[01:31:28] across the United States of America and the world on Truth
[01:31:31] Plus. Scan the QR code to find out more or visit
[01:31:35] gbnews.com/truth.
[01:31:43] Peter dora, living better. This is the motion sizer
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[01:34:53] and welcome back to Sunday with Michael Portillo. Worrying reports suggest that Russia is
[01:34:57] preparing escalate its war in Ukraine and to increase hybrid
[01:35:00] attacks on European countries. Allies across the continent
[01:35:04] anticipate an imminent war of cyber attacks, sabotage and
[01:35:07] misinformation from the Russian regime, and a bit
[01:35:10] to hold support for Ukraine. Putin hopes to bolster support.
[01:35:15] following parliamentary elections this weekend, the author of
[01:35:19] American overthrow, Moscow's end game in its long war with
[01:35:23] Washington, Kier Giles joins me
[01:35:26] now. Hello, Kier, welcome to the
[01:35:29] program. Um, so what kind of things are we
[01:35:32] expecting and who's expecting it? I mean, are we actually
[01:35:36] looking at drones and rockets arriving in places like Poland
[01:35:40] or Lithuania? Well, it's a bit of a complicated picture because
[01:35:44] different European. does are saying different things about it, there isn't a common picture across
[01:35:48] the whole the continent, that threat of drone and missile attacks, which nobody is
[01:35:52] going to describe as hybrid, it's more an overtact of war, came from
[01:35:55] Poland, but it's not completely clear if that's rehashing intelligence
[01:35:59] warnings about a potential false flag operation where Russia blames out in
[01:36:02] Ukraine that we heard in the summer, meanwhile at the other end of Europe you've got France
[01:36:06] saying what they do call hybrid attacks, everything that's below the threshold of
[01:36:10] open warfare is going to step up and they're getting ready for it, and then you
[01:36:14] have the... states, Estonia and Latvia, which are saying, even though they
[01:36:18] might be in the front line for some of this stuff, calm down, cool your boots,
[01:36:22] we haven't noticed anything getting any worse than it was before, and if we do
[01:36:25] we'll let you know, so there is a mismatch between some the promises of what
[01:36:29] Putin is supposed to be about to be planning, and the the reaction
[01:36:33] to it from some these European countries. Now, what about the war
[01:36:37] in Ukraine? Do you think Putin is going to go for the call up? I
[01:36:41] think we've been talking about 300,000 extra recruits for.
[01:36:45] war, I suppose there are some dangers and and and
[01:36:48] traps for him in that, and by the way, what's it going to achieve,
[01:36:52] because the the front appears
[01:36:54] to be pretty much frozen? well, all of those are very good questions, and
[01:36:58] this mobilization story is another one that seems to have taken a bit of life of
[01:37:02] its own and become a little bit divorced from any the evidence behind it. there's
[01:37:06] this wide spread expectation that as soon as Russia gets the elections,
[01:37:10] the state dooma out the way, the so-called elections that are happening at the moment,
[01:37:14] then Putin will find that he's - better able to do something really
[01:37:17] unpopular like call up hundreds of thousands more people, but what he would
[01:37:21] then do with them, of course is a big question. lot of people are focusing on the front line,
[01:37:25] just as you just suggested, the front line is stable and the
[01:37:29] character the war has changed, so a massive increase in mind power might not be
[01:37:33] that helpful there, but the other thing it would allow Russia to do is
[01:37:36] fill in all the military infrastructure that it's been building along
[01:37:40] its western frontier, along the eastern periphery of NATO, ready and waiting for.
[01:37:45] a time when they have the troops and the equipment ready to man it. now lot of people are
[01:37:48] expecting that would be after some kind of ceasefire in Ukraine, but if
[01:37:52] there is major new wave of mobilization in Russia, that would give
[01:37:56] Russia the people to do that and pose a more direct threat to NATO
[01:38:00] without having to wait for the end the war in Ukraine. the Russian
[01:38:04] advantage of late, Russian advantage of late has been that um
[01:38:08] air defenses seem to have run out uh over Ukrainian cities, and
[01:38:12] so the Russians have been able to penetrate uh Ukrainian. cities pretty much
[01:38:15] at will, is there any chance that Ukraine's allies will
[01:38:19] fill in the gaps so that it can again counter the threats
[01:38:23] from missiles and drones? yes, it's not quite at
[01:38:27] will, there are some new Russian capabilities that match some deficiencies
[01:38:31] and Ukrainian air defense, but still Ukraine is stopping most of what Russia is
[01:38:34] throwing at it, trying to make life unlivable in Ukrainian cities, and European
[01:38:38] partners across the whole the continent have actually stepped up and said,
[01:38:42] yes, we recognize this is major problem, ahead of winter if Russia is going
[01:38:46] to target the energy and heating infrastructure that keeps Ukrainians alive and so
[01:38:50] they're promising money and they're promising supplies. The question of course
[01:38:54] is whether those European countries are actually agile enough. fast
[01:38:58] enough to get that help there before it's needed and contribute to this
[01:39:01] technological race that's ongoing between the two countries at incredible
[01:39:05] pace. what what can the British expect in all of this?
[01:39:09] let's divide this in two parts: what could we expect of
[01:39:12] assets that belong to Britain outside Britain and what can British
[01:39:16] people expect to to encounter from the Russian
[01:39:20] threat? well one the problems of course when looking at where
[01:39:24] Russia might choose to get its way, whether it might like to challenge from example,
[01:39:27] NATO as an alliance as a whole, is that lot of people are thinking this will come in
[01:39:31] the frontline states, the ones neighboring Russia, but if you're sitting in the
[01:39:35] Kremlin, and you want to show that NATO can't fulfill its function,
[01:39:39] you'd look instead for the soft, juicy targets, and those are not the ones that are
[01:39:42] spent decades, now making themselves ready for the attack, it's the places west of
[01:39:46] Warsaw, it's the places like the UK would have which have declined to reinvest
[01:39:50] in defense and therefore falling behind the preparations the rest of
[01:39:54] Europe. Now coming up over the next week, if I'm allowed to... another
[01:39:57] broadcaster, there's going to be Sky News's war game series, which
[01:40:01] plays out what would happen if Russia did seek to coerce the UK, to
[01:40:05] demonstrate that NATO doesn't work, and frankly how little the UK would
[01:40:09] actually be able to do about it. the the title of your
[01:40:13] book, American overthrow, what does it mean? that's
[01:40:17] about the way Russia seems to have achieved its objectives
[01:40:20] in the United States getting America under the Trump administration to do
[01:40:24] so many things that remove obstacles to Russia. an ambition, it's
[01:40:28] about the way the United States in its national security strategy is talking about
[01:40:32] retreating from its global presence and leaving Europe to the
[01:40:36] Europeans and by extension to Russia. Now everybody sees the ways in which
[01:40:39] Trump is and those around him are carrying out lot the
[01:40:43] things that Russia wanted them to do and have effectively switched sides in some the
[01:40:47] conversations about protecting Ukraine and Europe from Russia, but
[01:40:51] another thing that's happening that lot of people from outside the United States don't see is
[01:40:55] the way that the US itself is trans forming domestically, the way
[01:40:59] politics has been overhauled, the way democracy has been sidelined in some
[01:41:02] cases, concentration of power in the hands the president and
[01:41:06] sidelining everything else, and that's what's led some the reviewers the book to
[01:41:10] say, it seems preposterous, but they say
[01:41:14] Donald Trump's playbook is Vladimir Putins, an
[01:41:18] extraordinary assertion, obviously very important book to
[01:41:21] read. Thank you very much, Kier Charles, thank you. Uh,
[01:41:25] coming up, seven curiasis. and his lawyer companion rafa will join me to
[01:41:29] share their joint reviews of Thelmer and Louise and Golden Boy. This is
[01:41:33] Sunday with Michael Portillo only on GB
[01:41:35] News.
[01:41:40] Be nice escape the gray. Clear skies. Here we come. As clear
[01:41:44] as our travel insurance. All Clear Travel Insurance sponsors GB News
[01:41:48] Travel Destinations forecast. Hello there. The
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[01:42:03] Spain and Portugal and into the high 20s for many areas,
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[01:45:37] welcome back to Sunday with Michael Portillo, Rapa. and his faithful companion Stephan
[01:45:41] ke have paded into the studio to share their
[01:45:45] weekly theater review. Welcome to you. Thank you very much. What
[01:45:49] have you seen this week? Thelmer and Louise. First up is Thelmer and Louise, so 1981 film,
[01:45:52] Ridley Scott, Susan Sarand and Gina Davis,
[01:45:55] extraordinary, extraordinary story, extraordinary visuals, extraordinary
[01:45:59] everything. We've got a little clip the two leads, Rachel Tucker
[01:46:03] and Lucy Lennox, singing uh, refrain from the
[01:46:07] show. I'll let you listen and then I shall discuss.
[01:46:11] We are to live before we die, time
[01:46:14] doesn't wait for us, it flies, let's catch a
[01:46:18] piece of our own
[01:46:20] life, it
[01:46:23] could do you some good, but I don't
[01:46:27] know about me, I've
[01:46:31] got Daryl to think of, it's not like I can just
[01:46:35] leave him all
[01:46:38] alone. lucky leaves me
[01:46:42] every day and the nights, when i say it out loud, i'm
[01:46:46] not too proud of myself, let's make him wonder
[01:46:48] where we
[01:46:51] are,
[01:46:56] aha, so the young, yes,
[01:46:59] so music is by Nico case, she is a sort of cult
[01:47:02] indie alternative artist, which always
[01:47:06] makes me slightly worry, um, she's also sort of known
[01:47:10] for breaking the traditional song
[01:47:13] structure and melody patterns, so you have
[01:47:17] songs that sort of stop and start, you get half a song, you get an
[01:47:21] awful lot of melodies that go laal all the way down the
[01:47:25] whole time, it's kind of for me rather miserable, um,
[01:47:28] and no disrespect to fabulous 12, 13-year-old
[01:47:32] poets out there, but we have lines like, I
[01:47:36] became an iron lake, or the hairs on my neck...
[01:47:40] stood up in murmoration, which is impossible because murmoration is
[01:47:43] flying birds. there are things we say between the
[01:47:47] lifeboat and the sea Michael, which I might think,
[01:47:50] ah, and that's pretty much how I felt about most of this show,
[01:47:54] so we have no car, we get the car at the start, we we have this sort of
[01:47:58] ho down in a western bar, which is the entire set that never changes,
[01:48:02] pulls back, our two lead ladies are sat top of an upside down crashed
[01:48:06] car, because we know how the film ends, I hope,
[01:48:10] um and they kind of wave merily to everybody and everybody cheers, and I'm
[01:48:14] like, you're using a really dramatic, tragic
[01:48:17] ending for sort of fan service
[01:48:21] familiarity to start the show, so for me it really went off the
[01:48:25] cliff from there, there's no car for the rest the show, so they are
[01:48:29] literally a huge hundreds and thousands of miles road trip across
[01:48:32] America, but we have no car, just the same static set, we get
[01:48:36] this these lights that kind of go around the edge the stage,
[01:48:40] It's okay, but we also the film was also famous for extraordinary
[01:48:44] wide screen vistas, you had this sense of it was almost epic, it was
[01:48:48] kind of mythical story against the skies, against the gods, against the
[01:48:52] whole world that these two women were battling against and then with
[01:48:55] wonderful soundtrack,
[01:48:57] I mean if I say so even greater than the one we just heard that, yes not
[01:49:00] difficult, um, yes, so everything that was in the film is not in
[01:49:04] the show, um, they absolutely the two leads are electrifying, they do
[01:49:08] really well with it, other characters are so painfully
[01:49:11] two-dimensional, it's just pointless, they turn Thelma's abusive husband
[01:49:15] into a sort of comedy sitcom prat, which is just
[01:49:19] incredibly frustrating, and it just doesn't know what it wants to do with the toe. "we obviously have
[01:49:23] rape early on, we have a man shot dead, we have two women
[01:49:27] that are literally bonny and cliding it across the west once all their money is
[01:49:30] stolen, there's this sense of building tragedy in the
[01:49:34] story that they cannot escape, but we're still rooting for them. i
[01:49:38] just got none of that from the show, i know some people have liked it, took, i tried to
[01:49:41] take relevant people, took a very great woman with me, she
[01:49:45] hated it as well, so it's not just my sadly male view of it, that's
[01:49:49] at the young vick, that's at the young vick, if you want to go" until October the
[01:49:53] 24th, what else we got? So then we've got um Golden Boy which is up at the
[01:49:57] Almada and the interesting thing about this to some extent is toxic
[01:50:00] masculinity. Thelmer and Louise is obviously oh the dreadful men they
[01:50:04] have to deal with all the way through. This one is slightly different. This is depression
[01:50:08] Ara in New York. It's written by Clifford Odetz who sort of disappeared from the
[01:50:12] canon now, but he was a precursor, 1930s,
[01:50:16] marxist, socialist, anti-establishment, anti-the American dream, and
[01:50:20] people like Arthur Miller have spoken that he and hired them, so
[01:50:24] Joshua Carnor plays an incredibly talented 21 year old
[01:50:27] violinist who has always suffered from being marked, he has a funny
[01:50:31] squinty eye, but also he's playing the violin, so we've got
[01:50:34] him sort of giving us the atmosphere of what this guy's going
[01:50:38] through, is the clip, you're just like dead if he ain't got a
[01:50:41] dollar,
[01:50:46] tomorrow is my birthday, everything moves too quickly,
[01:50:50] life goes by 200 miles per hour and you want.
[01:50:52] need to wait for the future, it might never
[01:50:54] come. i want
[01:50:58] to live and in this country that means
[01:51:01] money. you just like dead if you ain't got a
[01:51:04] dollar.
[01:51:08] tomorrow is my birthday, i changed my
[01:51:11] life.
[01:51:15] you b to this one. there was lots that i liked about it. so
[01:51:19] joshuaner, always phenomenal. um, there's really great.
[01:51:23] um Haley Squires plays Launa who's the kind of dame the show and she brings
[01:51:27] a lot to it, their scenes together are great, so adets was famous for sort of
[01:51:30] taking bringing in colloquial street talk but with
[01:51:34] poetic phrasing, it probably great then for
[01:51:38] me, it started to sound
[01:51:39] a bit like buggy malone, it just was sort of all these kind of wide
[01:51:43] broad sort of gangsters, daniel mayze places one them doing very
[01:51:47] much what he does very well and then um zubinv comes
[01:51:51] in as this map so boxer wants to take the boxer and make
[01:51:55] him famous, but it's just
[01:51:57] a there is bizarrely towering performance that is so
[01:52:00] ridiculously over the top that I loved, but everyone for me seems to be a different
[01:52:04] show and I kind of I I get the themes, I love the themes,
[01:52:08] it's Michael, you can talk to this, it's whether you take your artistic
[01:52:12] integrity or you take the money and the fame, how do you balance that in your
[01:52:15] life? it's it's such difficult, it's a struggle, you take the
[01:52:19] money um so it's all about that and the American dream. but I
[01:52:23] just felt I don't, I don't particu, I'm not draw to the way that odetz writes,
[01:52:27] but it's it's fabulously screen, the punch bag has camera in it, so whenever
[01:52:31] he's fighting himself or others, it whirls around, projections everywhere, and when
[01:52:34] he thinks about his music, shutters pull back,
[01:52:38] incredible string quartet playing Isabelle Wallerbridge's
[01:52:42] own compositions, lots to like, very classy production, I
[01:52:46] didn't land for me, but that's at the Almada until October the
[01:52:48] 31st, we haven't got time for any.
[01:52:52] but just you want to talk about Hadiestown, so the double
[01:52:56] Hadestown, it's one of my favorite, favorite, favorite all-time shows, this is how you do
[01:53:00] story, this is how you do themes, this is how you do a musical, so the picture we've got is
[01:53:04] Danielle Denise who we both know is an extraordinary international
[01:53:07] operar, she's going into Hady's town as percephany,
[01:53:11] which number one, hurrah, incredible, everybody please
[01:53:15] go and see it, but also which I love, from
[01:53:18] October, it's going into cinemas for about three
[01:53:21] weeks. when the original broadway cast came over this summer,
[01:53:25] they were filmed live with the London cast who are extraordinary, so if you can't
[01:53:29] get to London for the show, please go and see it at cinema, look online for
[01:53:32] information, but that wipes the floor with everything else. yeah, people sometimes
[01:53:36] complain that we're very London centric, so I'm very pleased when you accentuate either shows
[01:53:40] that are out of town or that are touring or that can be seen in
[01:53:44] cinemas. thank you very much, thank you very much Stephan Kiriasis, thanks
[01:53:48] to all my guests today for joining me, it's been an excellent couple of hours of fascinated.
[01:53:53] coming up next on GB News, it's the weekend, and that's with Dawn
[01:53:56] Neeson, and so the question is, Dawn, what's coming up on the show? Thank
[01:54:00] you so much Michael, it is going to be a brilliant show, we've got some cracking stories for
[01:54:04] you - we're starting with the Muslim fan group
[01:54:08] that want the Man United owner to be sacked over some of
[01:54:12] his recent controversial comments, we're also talking about the
[01:54:15] fact that the legal, we the UK faces legal
[01:54:19] challenge from the Caribbean over slave. because
[01:54:23] we are racist, evidently, yes, you knew that was coming,
[01:54:26] and we're also talking a little bit about the ongoing saga,
[01:54:30] obviously of Ed Sheiren, and that's a debate that is getting
[01:54:33] incredibly toxic,
[01:54:34] and we're talking about. cake, because beware, people
[01:54:38] bringing cake, they are very dangerous a work environment,
[01:54:41] evidently all of that, and much, much more to come after the weather, see you
[01:54:44] then,
[01:54:52] today clouds overhead, total
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[01:54:59] weather on GB News, hello there, good afternoon,
[01:55:03] welcome to our GB News weather update for the met office. It should be quite a
[01:55:06] fine end to the day for many of us, so a change coming through tonight in
[01:55:10] the north where we'll eventually see more rain coming through, but under cleareer
[01:55:14] skies it will be turning a bit chillier than of late. For the time being though, high
[01:55:18] pressure continues to build across the southwest, meaning it should be quite a fine
[01:55:22] end to the day, plenty of clear skies, so eventually across the north we'll start to
[01:55:26] see more cloud push through towards the north-west and eventually through the early
[01:55:30] hours the morning we'll see rain progress through here, eventually into northern
[01:55:33] island, parts of scotland and northwest England. To the south of
[01:55:37] this though, plenty of clear skies, so turning a bit chillier here, rural areas
[01:55:41] under the clearer skies could drop down to around 2 to 4°grees celsius, so
[01:55:45] quite a chilly start by the time we reach Monday morning for some,
[01:55:49] but
[01:55:49] it is eventually going to start to turn a bit warmer, a bit muggier, particularly across the
[01:55:53] north where we'll see some clouds, some rain. This could turn quite persistent across the
[01:55:57] hills of Scotland. Also, quite cloudy and damp start across Northern
[01:56:01] Ireland. Northern England we'll see some patchy cloud and possibly... some
[01:56:05] light outbacks of rain towards the far northwest, elsewhere across England and
[01:56:09] Wales though, it should be quite a bright start to
[01:56:11] the day, a little bit chilly, some patchy fog in places, though this should soon
[01:56:14] clear through the course the morning and remaining quite dry and settled here with some
[01:56:18] sunshine, towards the north though, different story remaining quite cloudy
[01:56:22] with some rain and drizzle, this quite persistent around western hills through
[01:56:26] the course the day, much lighter winds and feeling warm in the sunshine
[01:56:30] once again, but return of that muggy feel, temperatures pushing into the
[01:56:33] mid-20s for many. areas, including eastern areas of Scotland where they might start to
[01:56:37] see some breaks in the cloud later on into the day.
[01:56:41] now through Monday night, there's not much change, there's still this north south split
[01:56:45] in the weather, so plenty of cloud towards the north, some rain and drizzle, but some
[01:56:49] clearer skies towards the south, we'll still see plenty of fine weather
[01:56:53] into next week, though some rain and showers across the north at times and temperatures
[01:56:56] eventually returning to more average for this point the
[01:56:59] year. today, clouds
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[02:00:20] "good afternoon, it's 1 o'clock on Sunday the 20th of September and
[02:00:24] this is the weekend on GB News, hello and welcome and I hope you're having
[02:00:28] a wonderful Sunday out, we've got a great show coming up, starting with the story, it's really
[02:00:32] going to annoy you - Manchester United co-owner sir Jim Ratcliff has
[02:00:36] sparked a political round over Britain's economic decline, immigration
[02:00:40] and tax, uh, Brigit Philipson and
[02:00:42] has hit back, but is Radcliff right, and why do the Muslim supports
[02:00:46] of his club, what?" " act and there's
[02:00:50] a growing evidence that Andy Burnham is considering a general
[02:00:54] election in the next year as he seeks a mandate to raise
[02:00:57] taxes, so is an...