HALKTV — broadcast
20260806 203000 UTC
434 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] It is beneficial to remind that for more than a year
[00:00:03] there have been reports that AK Party and MHP experts
[00:00:07] have been working on a new constitutional text. A new constitutional text is being worked on,
[00:00:10] the ruling group is carrying out this work,
[00:00:14] it has not yet been announced to the public.
[00:00:17] Now, the most important article of the constitution
[00:00:21] concerning the government is Article 101. According to this article, a
[00:00:24] person cannot be elected president more than twice. Considering
[00:00:28] this article, for Mr. Erdoğan to be a candidate for the third time,
[00:00:32] the Parliament needs to decide on early elections.
[00:00:35] In order to decide on early elections, the government
[00:00:38] needs the votes of Dem Party deputies. Also, to be re-elected
[00:00:42] in the elections, it needs the votes of Dem Party members.
[00:00:46] This is a political reality.
[00:00:49] Therefore, a constitutional amendment
[00:00:52] or a new constitution
[00:00:55] can be brought to the agenda and Article 101
[00:00:59] can be removed. "Some articles of the constitution can be changed
[00:01:02] and the Dem Party can support this.
[00:01:05] Will the CHP support this Kılıçdaroğlu's CHP? Of course,
[00:01:08] I don't know that because the CHP,
[00:01:12] the old CHP, when Kılıçdaroğlu
[00:01:15] was the chairman, the old CHP
[00:01:18] had an attitude against this. However, whether their
[00:01:22] signing the framework law today means their
[00:01:25] views have changed, I don't know and I have no information,
[00:01:29] but it is certain that the new party
[00:01:33] will object. Already, as the old CHP,
[00:01:36] the current new party management
[00:01:39] had opposed Mr.
[00:01:42] Erdoğan's candidacy for the third time
[00:01:46] because an constitutional amendment was made.
[00:01:48] The Supreme Election Board did not count
[00:01:52] system. He says they will achieve the period when the president was elected in 2014.
[00:01:56] This was not his third time. He
[00:02:00] did this presidency only once,
[00:02:03] so he can be a candidate for the second time, they said. They objected
[00:02:06] to this at that time. Now I say third time, but in fact,
[00:02:09] it will be his fourth time as a candidate.
[00:02:13] That's why, if Article 101's obstacle is removed,
[00:02:17] or if the Parliament decides on early elections with the support of the Dem Party's
[00:02:20] deputies, Mr. Erdoğan can again be a presidential candidate,
[00:02:23] and by getting the support of the Dem Party members
[00:02:27] at the ballot box, he might be thinking of being re-elected.
[00:02:30] Of course, if you ask if there is a guarantee for this, there isn't.
[00:02:34] I mentioned it in 2015, in the 2015 elections,
[00:02:38] when the opening process was on the agenda, the AK Party lost a lot of votes
[00:02:41] and also lost its power
[00:02:44] to form a single government. Will there be a similar public reaction or not?
[00:02:48] We will see that when the election time approaches. But
[00:02:52] with a new constitutional approach, the government
[00:02:55] might bring forward a text aiming to get the support
[00:02:58] of the Dem Party. From this perspective,
[00:03:01] looking at it from the new party's perspective, the three
[00:03:05] articles of the constitution that cannot even be proposed
[00:03:08] for amendment are out of the question. So, the new party
[00:03:12] will not accept even the slightest
[00:03:15] change regarding this. If a change on this issue
[00:03:19] comes to the agenda, it's not hard to guess
[00:03:22] that the public will react at the ballot box, Gökmen.
[00:03:26] Yes, now you know, with 430
[00:03:29] or rather, 360 deputies' signatures,
[00:03:33] the proposal was submitted. Yes, I think it will pass
[00:03:36] with over 430 deputies, says Fetih Yıldız.
[00:03:39] Let's see how Fetih Yıldız does that calculation,
[00:03:42] how the math. Yes, in the Parliament at the moment, what
[00:03:46] do we have? We're looking. The Justice and Development
[00:03:49] Party has 277 seats.
[00:03:53] The New Party has 91, the Dem Party has
[00:03:56] 56, the MHP has 46,
[00:04:00] the CHP has 45, the İyi Party has 29,
[00:04:04] Yeniyol has 20, Independents 10,
[00:04:07] Hüdapar 4. Now, let's look at the two-digit
[00:04:11] and three-digit numbers. Of course, 277
[00:04:14] for AKP, when we add the Dem Party, it becomes 270,
[00:04:18] 320, 327, 333.
[00:04:22] When we add the MHP to that,
[00:04:24] 333, 40 is 373,
[00:04:28] 379.
[00:04:33] 425. With a few more from the others,
[00:04:37] of course, Hüdapar, yes, it easily exceeds 430.
[00:04:40] So, the AK Party and MHP
[00:04:43] and CHP when you add them up
[00:04:47] it makes 424. If you add Hüdapar
[00:04:50] to that, I don't know,
[00:04:53] and the other Democratic Regions Party,
[00:04:56] and then from Yeniyol
[00:05:00] there might be supporters, and if you add them all,
[00:05:03] it really easily passes, because the Good Party
[00:05:07] had already announced it would never support it.
[00:05:11] 29 deputies. The New Way announced its support,
[00:05:13] if I'm not mistaken. The New Party has 91
[00:05:16] deputies. So, it could be that if the New Party
[00:05:20] abstains or votes no,
[00:05:23] then excluding about 90
[00:05:27] plus 30, roughly 120 deputies,
[00:05:30] it would pass with the signatures of the rest of the parliament. And even the New Party,
[00:05:33] despite all these criticisms,
[00:05:36] has the possibility of saying yes
[00:05:39] in the end. We'll see, but
[00:05:50] such a number emerges. Do you think,
[00:05:54] Deniz Hocam, that the presidential alliance
[00:05:58] genuinely views this as a libertarian constitution,
[00:06:01] or do they think, "Hey, I've caught a moment
[00:06:04] now, in this process, I can fully control this
[00:06:08] until the election, and I can keep the Dem Party
[00:06:11] by my side, not lose them to the New Party,
[00:06:15] and thus get through this process"? Now, in this process,
[00:06:19] the presidential alliance, or rather, its updated version,
[00:06:22] as you know, the expanded presidential alliance,
[00:06:25] which includes the CHP, because at this point,
[00:06:29] I don't predict a democratization move
[00:06:32] will come, even a constitutional democratization move,
[00:06:36] because if the current constitution were applied, and it's not that
[00:06:39] the current constitution is very good, let's not misunderstand, but
[00:06:42] if it were applied, we probably wouldn't be discussing
[00:06:46] many problems. Of course, constitutions are not
[00:06:49] sacred texts; they can change according to need. But
[00:06:53] I don't want to give the example of the American constitution; how many times has it changed in 200 years?
[00:06:56] How many constitutions have we made, let alone amendments?
[00:06:59] So, at this point, the fundamental problem
[00:07:03] is being able to say "democracy now" in every field. That's why I'm at the point
[00:07:06] I mentioned in the first round; the 7th section of the report
[00:07:09] carries even more urgency, it's about what needs to be implemented
[00:07:13] on a democratic basis. You know, in economics,
[00:07:17] there's always talk of insufficient demand. In Turkey, for many years,
[00:07:20] there was always talk of insufficient democratic demand. I think right now, it's the opposite;
[00:07:24] this demand has now turned into a social wave,
[00:07:28] a tsunami. That's why what Barış Hodja said earlier, about
[00:07:31] the 60% in Northern Cyprus, we are truly facing a very similar
[00:07:35] situation. Provided it's managed well, nothing is ever
[00:07:39] guaranteed. If you manage it well, it goes much higher. If it's bad,
[00:07:43] it goes in a different direction. In this context, especially
[00:07:47] regarding Mr. Özgür Özer, the discussion of whether his immunity will be lifted
[00:07:50] or similar issues being brought up is truly a normalization,
[00:07:54] a normalization in a negative sense. It's an understanding
[00:07:57] that treats this as a normal action,
[00:08:01] as a component of normality. Because when looked at in this
[00:08:04] context, there's a risk that democracy is increasingly turning into
[00:08:08] a decorative element, unfortunately. Now, on this framework law,
[00:08:14] I was really stuck, and Barış Hodja
[00:08:18] very nicely reminded us about the Public Administration Basic Law.
[00:08:21] At that time, in 2003-2004,
[00:08:24] it was discussed a lot. And let's remember,
[00:08:27] at that time, the question of whether administrative tutelage and hierarchy
[00:08:31] in Turkey's constitutional structure would change was on the agenda.
[00:08:34] Then, even though it seemed to have been withdrawn, especially the new structure formed
[00:08:38] with the 2017 referendum, perhaps we need to discuss
[00:08:42] it at length in another program, but let me just give a few examples,
[00:08:45] we talked about it before. The undersecretariats
[00:08:48] were abolished from the ministries, deputy ministers came in,
[00:08:51] now there are privileged contract employees
[00:08:54] in Beştepe, there are those who don't work under Law No. 657.
[00:08:57] So, public administration in this sense,
[00:09:01] for example, in English, do you weigh public administration or public management?
[00:09:05] Public administration, of course. When you see this as part of a business,
[00:09:09] as part of a business approach, similar problems arise, because
[00:09:12] it might lead to the almost liquidation of classical
[00:09:15] bureaucracy. At this point, in the framework
[00:09:18] we have reached, the application of the existing
[00:09:21] constitution and laws in Turkey
[00:09:24] really carries an urgency. We need to focus on this in particular.
[00:09:28] However, this process also needs to be organized correctly.
[00:09:32] So, in Turkey, you see,
[00:09:35] we discussed for a year whether it would be annulled or not.
[00:09:38] We discussed it on Halk TV screens as well. In the end, it happened.
[00:09:42] We need to remove the phrase "they wouldn't do so much" from our vocabulary.
[00:09:45] But we shouldn't be in this surrender:
[00:09:49] "Oh, even if there are elections, the outcome won't change,
[00:09:53] elections will happen this way or that way." The moment that is said,
[00:09:56] it's the acceptance of defeat
[00:09:59] in a mental sense, because democracy is not a tramway for us,
[00:10:03] it's a way of life. We have to protect our way of life,
[00:10:06] otherwise we cannot breathe. But of course, this is not easy,
[00:10:09] there are many dimensions to it. What is being discussed today
[00:10:13] is related to that. Can you imagine that the Parliament
[00:10:16] report states that the constitution and laws
[00:10:19] are not being applied? Can there be such an absurdity?
[00:10:23] This is actually terrifying, it's not being applied. Of course, they don't say it like this,
[00:10:26] but they use different words, you know. We saw it,
[00:10:29] just now in the commission report, it says that the decisions
[00:10:33] of the Constitutional Court and the European Court of Human Rights
[00:10:36] must be applied. I mean, they should already be applied. Now I know which words
[00:10:40] to use to express it. It is stated there that the decisions are binding,
[00:10:43] Article 90 of the constitution is clear. No, Article 90 of the constitution
[00:10:47] exists even before the report. It also emphasizes that pre-trial detention
[00:10:50] should be an exception. So, it actually refers to
[00:10:53] existing principles. It says, "We are not doing these things."
[00:10:57] There is such an absurdity. What does it mean, "Let's apply the rules"?
[00:11:01] They are not being applied. They should be applied. This absurdity
[00:11:04] must be overcome. But the mental process is extremely important.
[00:11:08] Of course, why is the new party's position here decisive? Because
[00:11:11] the new party is a game-changer, a structure that changes the game.
[00:11:15] It's a structure that doesn't stay in Ankara, doesn't surrender to learned
[00:11:18] helplessness, doesn't surrender to rote learning. It doesn't suit them at all, because
[00:11:21] they want, let me summarize, the expanded alliance.
[00:11:25] Look, a fresh, brand-new member.
[00:11:28] They want a bureaucratic tutelary body like the CHP.
[00:11:31] That is, a political party that will serve
[00:11:34] the ruling party, as in the East German constitution.
[00:11:38] This is their own choice, their majesties' opposition. Exactly, in that sense,
[00:11:42] we leave them to their choice, but I think history will write
[00:11:46] about the game-changing move in a much more important way
[00:12:08] the government's goal in 2024 since the 2024 local elections
[00:12:11] will be a new constitution, exiting the presidential
[00:12:14] system and returning to the parliamentary
[00:12:17] social consensus by using this. Of course, here the goal
[00:12:21] is not so much democracy as the fear of losing in this system.
[00:12:25] That is, the fear of losing in the current system,
[00:12:28] and taking a precaution for the future. Emre Şirin contributed to us
[00:13:16] Turkey is full of illegalities. Now, I was in Şafşat last time.
[00:13:20] In Şafşat, we have a teacher.
[00:13:23] We have Müzekkir Hodja.
[00:13:27] Müzekkir Hodja and our sister Fikri.
[00:13:31] No, I won't mention them. They have a daughter in prison.
[00:13:33] She's in Andırra No. 1 Fetip. She was arrested in 1992,
[00:13:37] she was arrested at the age of 24. She served 30 years of her sentence,
[00:13:40] meaning whatever the punishment for her crime was,
[00:13:42] she served it. And it's been 35
[00:13:46] years, and she still can't be released. Why?
[00:13:50] "Because she's using the right to appeal, she's not obeying. Why?
[00:13:53] She's not participating in the Imam education program."
[00:13:56] "This is not an appeal report, it's a mihal report."
[00:13:59] This is what's being done to Selçuk Kozaağaçlı.
[00:14:03] Now, she has served 30 years,
[00:14:07] she has served her sentence, and for 5
[00:14:09] more years, she still cannot be released.
[00:14:13] Now, looking at this situation,
[00:14:16] there are many people like her, many people like our friend Sevgi.
[00:14:20] Since we are talking about many things, these illegalities
[00:14:23] should also be eliminated. I mean,
[00:14:27] why are you keeping a person who has served their sentence
[00:14:30] in prison for an extra 5 years? What heartlessness,
[00:14:34] what unlawfulness, what injustice is this?
[00:14:37] Yes, Seraf Hanım, does it happen technically
[00:14:41] like this? Even if they have served their sentence,
[00:14:45] does a committee need to give a report for them to be released?
[00:14:48] They get a prison evaluation
[00:14:51] report. Selçuk Bey, as you know, was released. He was taken back
[00:14:55] a day later, and there they said
[00:14:58] he was not ready to rejoin society, not rehabilitated. So, they created
[00:15:01] such a formula. By the way,
[00:15:04] there are many such people.
[00:15:08] I chatted with someone in this sense, and they told me,
[00:15:12] "I stayed in prison for decades. Yes, I knew I was there unjustly
[00:15:15] due to political reasons. But what bothered me most
[00:15:18] despite completing my sentence was reasons
[00:15:22] like these." They can prolong the process
[00:15:33] with a letter written by the prison director. Alper Hodja, what do you say about the new constitution?
[00:15:37] I mean, it's mentioned a lot. Everyone
[00:15:41] says, "Brother, if you don't apply the current constitution,
[00:15:44] then a new one." But it looks like such an agenda is coming.
[00:15:48] Now, the new constitution agenda seems to benefit the People's Alliance.
[00:15:52] Yes, you know, this government has always built
[00:15:55] previous processes around constitutional debates and divided
[00:15:58] politics and polarized it through constitutional debates.
[00:16:01] We experienced this most concretely with the September 12, 2010
[00:16:05] constitutional amendment process. Because
[00:16:08] they have such a discourse, they develop such
[00:16:12] a political understanding, saying, "Sir,
[00:16:15] there is a tutelary regime in Turkey, we need to abolish
[00:16:18] the tutelary regime. As long as the September 12
[00:16:22] constitution remains, the tutelary regime does not disappear."
[00:16:25] "If we make a civil constitution for September 12, then the tutelary regime,
[00:16:28] this struggle against the tutelary regime," and so they established
[00:16:32] strange tutelages over us. Judicial tutelage is the main one.
[00:16:35] I mean, in September 12, 2010, they were supposedly
[00:16:39] going to abolish judicial tutelage, now they are carrying out political operations
[00:16:43] through the judiciary. They increased judicial
[00:16:46] tutelage, they raised its level. The executive became monopolized,
[00:16:49] that is, an executive tutelage was formed, the parliament
[00:16:53] became dysfunctional. Now we look at the AKP's constitutional
[00:16:56] practices. Can a party with these practices
[00:16:59] make a democratic, libertarian constitution? Is this possible? Do they have such a mindset?
[00:17:03] Do they have such an understanding? Do they have such a perspective?
[00:17:06] Now, a constitution.
[00:17:17] Not every civil constitution is democratic, brother.
[00:17:21] The word "civil" is not a magic word. It's not like
[00:17:24] if we, civilians, make the constitution, it becomes democratic.
[00:17:27] There's no such approach. They did it on September 12, 2010.
[00:17:31] Was it democratic? Now, the September 12,
[00:17:34] or rather, April 15 referendum?
[00:17:37] "There was a constitutional amendment. The July 15
[00:17:41] coup attempt was seen as an opportunity.
[00:17:44] Wasn't there going to be a referendum change on April 16? The republic would win,
[00:17:48] democracy would win, freedoms would win.
[00:17:51] It's the exact opposite. We've been going downhill
[00:17:54] ever since that referendum. Now, the AKP cannot
[00:17:57] make a democratic constitution. Debating the constitution
[00:18:01] with the AKP is absurd. But the AKP will steer
[00:18:04] the process in this direction. And with the Kurdish movement,
[00:18:08] I mean, the Kurdish movement, Seraf Hanım,
[00:18:12] sometimes objects outside, but I'm not saying it will be confined
[00:18:16] or evolve into that. I'm talking about the AKP's intention.
[00:18:18] The AKP's intention in this process is to make a constitutional
[00:18:22] amendment with the Kurdish movement, because it has no chance
[00:18:25] of making this amendment without them.
[00:18:29] It will try to steer the process
[00:18:33] towards this. That's its intention.
[00:18:36] It's an approach to make the regime permanent
[00:18:39] through a constitutional amendment. This is actually the dialogue
[00:18:43] with Öcalan. This is an important element
[00:18:47] of negotiations with Öcalan. We cannot talk by rejecting these.
[00:18:50] This also happened in previous processes. Look,
[00:18:53] read Öcalan's meeting minutes, it's there.
[00:18:57] Öcalan said, "We accept the presidential system, it's not
[00:19:00] an issue for us." But the political
[00:19:04] cadre of the Kurdish Movement, Kandil and Selahattin Demirtaş especially.
[00:19:16] But that's a reality. What happened in the end?
[00:19:20] The table was overturned, and as a result, Turkey went
[00:19:24] in a completely different direction. The reason
[00:19:26] Selahattin Demirtaş has been in prison for so many years
[00:19:29] illegally is that he did not agree to the presidential regime.
[00:19:33] The Kurdish movement did not agree to the presidential regime at that time.
[00:19:37] Okay, peace, okay. But the presidential
[00:19:40] regime is not a democratic
[00:19:43] approach, and it is already evident that the presidential regime
[00:19:47] is not a democratic practice. Now, naturally,
[00:19:51] the AKP's intention is not democratization. Yes to peace,
[00:19:54] but let's not expect democracy from this.
[00:19:58] This democracy can only be the product of the common struggle of Turks, Kurds,
[00:20:01] and all oppressed laborers. So, let there be peace
[00:20:05] - amen. A Turkey without terror,
[00:20:09] okay. Why not a democratic Turkey? I mean, why
[00:20:11] not bread, why not justice,
[00:20:15] why not democracy, but only a Turkey without terror?
[00:20:18] We are in a discussion at this point. Let there be disarmament,
[00:20:22] let the period of armed conflict end, but let there be democracy.
[00:20:25] The AKP has no intention
[00:20:29] or vision for democracy. That's why what we need to do
[00:20:32] is not to expect democracy from the AKP. Since the AKP has no such vision,
[00:20:35] the issue is to defeat this AKP with a united struggle.
[00:20:39] Without defeating this AKP, Turkey's democratization
[00:20:43] will not be possible. Within Turkey's
[00:20:46] democratization, a democratic solution to the Kurdish question
[00:20:50] will not be possible either. I am a socialist. Forget peace, I want a democratic
[00:20:53] solution to the Kurdish question. I have always said that there is a Kurdish nation,
[00:20:57] and this nation has democratic rights, which have been usurped,
[00:21:01] and these have not been met in due course. It's clear.
[00:21:04] We are not saying this for the first time, friends. The Turkish socialist movement
[00:21:08] has been saying this since the 60s. Our comrades are saying this.
[00:21:11] This is a reality. There is a reality called the Kurdish
[00:21:14] nation. Now, we have the chance to solve the reality of the Kurdish nation
[00:21:18] within a democratic nation-state. Now, Kurds don't want separation,
[00:21:22] Kurds don't want an independent Kurdistan. They want to live
[00:21:25] together with us on the basis of equal citizenship.
[00:21:29] How natural, how humane, how conscientious is this?
[00:21:33] But the AKP will not do this. The AKP's vision does not include
[00:21:37] a democratic solution to the Kurdish question. It includes the elimination
[00:21:40] of the terrorist organization, and by taking it under its wing,
[00:21:43] by burning it in the region. We cannot talk by skipping these phrases.
[00:21:47] We are saying, "Let's look at this side too,"
[00:21:50] otherwise we are not opposing the disarmament aspect of the process.
[00:21:54] Are these phrases meaningless? Is it called "Ummah unity"?
[00:21:57] Turkish, Kurdish, Arab Ummah unity.
[00:22:01] Not only the government says this, but also various elements
[00:22:04] of the Kurdish movement, even Öcalan uses these terms,
[00:22:08] brother. Now, are we not going to stand up and say,
[00:22:12] "What are you doing?" What is the end of this process?
[00:22:15] What does "Ummah unity" mean? What does "Ottoman nation" mean?
[00:22:19] We won't discuss these,
[00:22:26] we won't ask these. Oh, a vice president should be Alevi,
[00:22:30] and another should be Kurd. Why can't a Kurd be president,
[00:22:33] but only an assistant? Will we apply the Lublin model?
[00:22:37] The issue is this: the nation-state,
[00:22:40] the nation-state mentality of the Republic of Turkey has collapsed.
[00:22:42] This nation-state understanding cannot continue.
[00:22:46] But the alternative today is not secession, forming a separate state,
[00:22:50] or independence. This is not a correct solution either.
[00:22:53] This is also being said. So how will we turn this nation-state
[00:22:57] into a democratic state based on equal citizenship?
[00:23:00] That is the issue. Now, we say this government will not
[00:23:03] do this. Let them prove us wrong. They never proved us wrong. For 25
[00:23:07] years, whatever we said, we never felt ashamed
[00:23:10] or embarrassed by what we said. I wish we had been embarrassed.
[00:23:14] Here, of course, by Kurdish nation,
[00:23:17] we mean an existence in the sense of a nation-state.
[00:23:36] When I say that the mentality has collapsed, I am criticizing
[00:23:39] the point reached in terms of democratic legitimacy
[00:23:43] and democracy standards. That's why I'm saying this.
[00:23:47] They express it. He states
[00:24:29] energy depot. Orbus.
[00:24:32] Gold belongs to everyone, but
[00:24:39] the bracelet is for the brave. Years of accumulation,
[00:24:43] the tradition of these lands, Turkey's bracelet,
[00:24:46] Koçak. Koçak.
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[00:30:36] "openly continues, meanwhile uh Erdoğan and
[00:30:39] Bahçeli met today uh and again it was announced
[00:30:43] during the day that they would meet uh that meeting lasted about
[00:30:46] 50 minutes,
[00:30:50] their last meeting lasted about 45 minutes, they probably
[00:30:54] discussed the framework law again, they evaluated the latest situation.
[00:30:58] Fikret Abi, of course..."