HALKTV — Bilge Yurtdagulen ile Gundem Ozel
20260915 170000 UTC
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[00:00:00] Live
[00:00:00] to the fullest
[00:00:09] Turkey's energy storage Orbus
[00:00:27] would also vote storm continues.
[00:00:30] "The price per liter of diesel has approached 100 liras. So,
[00:00:33] how will this situation affect citizens,
[00:00:37] producers, industrialists and even the entire country? The
[00:00:40] headlines of politics are quite hot, but we will try to talk about the real agenda of the citizens,
[00:00:43] which is the economy, in tonight's
[00:00:46] uncensored program. Of course, there is a name
[00:00:49] issue for the new party. As you know, the Central Executive Board met today and
[00:00:53] it was decided not to change the name for now
[00:00:57] regarding this name issue in the new party. You will remember that in the past
[00:01:00] days, an event occurred in Turkish politics that would be talked about for many
[00:01:03] years. In Üsküdar, upon the objection of the AK Party,
[00:01:07] the election for the Deputy Mayor
[00:01:10] was renewed, and the position of
[00:01:12] Deputy Mayor changed from CHP to AK Party. Now, in this
[00:01:16] transition, two arrests and four transfers were very
[00:01:19] effective. An explanation like a confession came from
[00:01:23] one of those transfers. He said, "They offered me the position of Deputy Mayor,
[00:01:27] and I accepted." So, what exactly
[00:02:00] did you find? Welcome. Welcome, and good broadcasts.
[00:02:03] Now, of course, as I said, we will talk about the real agenda of the citizens,
[00:02:07] the headlines of the economy, tonight, for sure, but today
[00:02:10] one really marvels at what
[00:02:13] we witnessed. As you know, these Üsküdar elections
[00:02:17] were renewed. Why were they renewed? They were renewed with the objection of the AK Party.
[00:02:20] After Sinem Bedetaş was arrested, CHP Council Member
[00:02:24] Sibeltan Çetinkaya was elected Deputy Mayor. As a result
[00:02:28] of the objection, that objection has not yet been concluded.
[00:02:30] Two council members were arrested, and four members were transferred, and
[00:02:34] while being transferred, one of those members, Tahsin
[00:02:37] Usta, said that they decided to switch to the AK Party
[00:02:40] without any pressure or coercion, and without any
[00:02:44] bargaining. However, in his statement today,
[00:02:48] he said he was offered the position of Deputy Mayor. The archive does not forget.
[00:02:51] Let's first look at what he said on the day he decided to transfer,
[00:02:55] before the badge was pinned, and then what he said today.
[00:02:58] Please. "When making this decision, I would
[00:03:02] especially like to state, along with my fellow council members,
[00:03:04] that we were not under any pressure,
[00:03:08] not under any threat, and not
[00:03:12] involved in any bargaining. Our aim is
[00:03:16] to serve Üsküdar more."
[00:03:19] "Without any pressure, without any bargaining,
[00:03:22] we are joining the ranks of the AK Party. Our intention
[00:03:26] is good, sir, our aim is to serve Üsküdar better," he said.
[00:03:28] However, in his statement today, let's
[00:03:32] quickly see, I'll ask my director, he says
[00:03:36] that he was upset, first he was made to
[00:03:39] resign from his position as Deputy Mayor, and then such an
[00:03:42] offer came, he says he was actually collecting hazelnuts in Trabzon,
[00:03:46] then suddenly he found himself in a hotel room in Izmit,
[00:03:49] he stayed for 3 days, even his wife didn't know,
[00:03:53] he was offered the position of Deputy Mayor, and
[00:03:56] he accepted this offer, believing he could serve.
[00:04:00] He says there are areas where he is experienced.
[00:04:03] Now, Ali Gökçek, of course, let's address
[00:04:07] the contradictions in his speech, he says there was absolutely no bargaining,
[00:04:10] then he says he was offered the position of Deputy Mayor, he says there are issues where
[00:04:14] he can help for the disabled, many issues he is an expert
[00:04:17] on, but on the one hand, inevitably,
[00:04:21] we are reminded of the 38th Convention
[00:04:24] and the lawsuit filed with the allegation and accusation
[00:04:28] that the will of the delegates was invalidated. There was a decision of annulment. Now, I
[00:04:31] couldn't quite understand what
[00:04:34] like everyone else, when I was invalidated here. If you could explain,
[00:04:36] I would be grateful. Actually, I was going
[00:04:39] to start from there. Let's
[00:04:42] say what we were going to say at the end, at the beginning.
[00:04:45] Only in Üsküdar, 4 council members decided
[00:04:49] to switch from CHP to AKP.
[00:04:52] There is no invalidation of will, no offer, no
[00:04:56] incentive, nothing. There is just such a coincidence.
[00:05:00] There are four different people who
[00:05:03] suddenly decided to resign
[00:05:06] from their positions as Republican People's Party
[00:05:10] council members. They suddenly
[00:05:13] found themselves in a political drift, and what
[00:05:16] a coincidence that all of them decided to reunite
[00:05:20] in the same place. Either these four different people
[00:05:24] internalized this, experienced it without any incentive or threat,
[00:05:27] and suddenly decided to become a member of a
[00:05:30] political party they had opposed for years. Here,
[00:05:34] we are already shouting that there is both threat and
[00:05:38] incentive. Furthermore, if we look at the last Üsküdar elections,
[00:05:40] even though two more council members
[00:05:44] remained in the Republican People's Party, they voted
[00:05:47] for the AKP candidate. Let's say
[00:05:51] these friends also thought the same thing. Did they not have enough time
[00:05:54] to switch to the AKP, or did the AKP not have enough votes
[00:05:58] to win the Üsküdar elections, so they needed
[00:06:02] to threaten or incentivize more people?
[00:06:05] These are very clear. All of these
[00:06:08] are already very clear. Let's get to the issue
[00:06:11] regarding our convention. "Our
[00:06:13] friends,
[00:06:15] in the convention indictment, had their photos from the convention
[00:06:19] taken and circled in red,
[00:06:23] and those photos said, 'Look,
[00:06:25] he was next to Özgür Özel at the convention, now he's a council
[00:06:29] member.' This was a big crime.
[00:06:32] This was presented as a crime. How?
[00:06:35] Özgür Özel promised that he would win the convention,
[00:06:39] and after winning the convention, he would make him a council member.
[00:06:42] This was political bribery, and it was
[00:06:46] against the law of political parties.
[00:06:50] If someone from his own party walks with him,
[00:06:53] yes, he might consider evaluating him somewhere. This is inherent in politics. People
[00:06:56] want to continue in politics with those they walk with.
[00:07:00] Yet, you will consider this a crime.
[00:07:03] Furthermore, our council member,
[00:07:05] who was recently released from prison, could not even
[00:07:09] become a convention delegate. Look,
[00:07:12] even though he could not become a convention delegate,
[00:07:15] because they supported different
[00:07:18] candidates in the provincial elections. He just got out of prison.
[00:07:22] He wasn't even a convention delegate. He gave a bribe
[00:07:25] and made him a council member. We said, 'Why did Özgür Özel give a bribe
[00:07:29] to someone who wasn't a convention delegate?' These people are in prison
[00:07:32] for no reason. It's a shame, it's a sin, we said. Starting
[00:07:36] from this, one person's detention,
[00:07:39] arrest, even one person's freedom for a day or an hour.
[00:07:52] for these reasons. Now, all
[00:07:55] our friends stated that this was not the case, that they were just doing politics,
[00:07:58] that they made a choice at the convention,
[00:08:02] and that they made this choice by listening to the society. And
[00:08:05] we were right, we became the first party in Turkey in the elections,
[00:08:09] because we were able to listen to the voice of the society and bring about change
[00:08:12] within the party. Now,
[00:08:16] they are coming, openly, a council member who switched
[00:08:20] from the Republican People's Party to the AKP
[00:08:23] says that they offered him the position of Deputy Mayor, and he
[00:08:27] said yes. What is this? Isn't this political bribery?
[00:08:30] Let me tell you something,
[00:08:33] I think what Tahsin Usta explained in Üsküdar
[00:08:37] is the most
[00:08:39] innocent
[00:08:41] I think Come, you will be made Deputy Mayor,
[00:08:45] and political bribery will be given. If
[00:08:48] you could appoint a trustee to the 103-year-old Republican
[00:08:51] People's Party, then renewing the Üsküdar elections
[00:08:55] is not enough. The same
[00:08:58] proposal you applied should be brought now.
[00:09:02] Just as you took the council member inside, then
[00:09:06] take Mr. Tahsin as well. For the same reason, for violating the Law on Political
[00:09:10] Parties. For the same reason. Ask Mr. Tahsin,
[00:09:13] "Who made you this offer, brother?"
[00:09:17] How did this happen? While making a choice between two candidates
[00:09:20] within the party can be considered a crime, isn't it a crime
[00:09:24] to switch to another party and make a municipality elected by the people win
[00:09:27] for a party that wasn't elected?
[00:09:31] Will they ask Mr. Tahsin who did it?
[00:09:34] If there was such a rumor in any municipality of the Republican
[00:09:37] People's Party or today's New Party,
[00:09:41] prosecutors would immediately be called to duty,
[00:09:45] and perhaps even before being called, prosecutors would take this as their duty
[00:09:48] and start. Why isn't Mr. Tahsin asked this?
[00:09:52] Because we know this. We also know the reason for the second and third operations
[00:09:55] carried out in Üsküdar. There will be no more operations
[00:09:58] in Üsküdar, as
[00:10:01] they have already achieved what they wanted. But
[00:10:04] today, in the last
[00:10:08] elections, our candidate, Ms. Sibel, made a speech
[00:10:12] in the IBB council. I was able to listen today. I don't know if she made it today or if it came
[00:10:15] to my attention today. She said,
[00:10:19] "Yes, you can enter a municipality,
[00:10:22] sit in the office, and even
[00:10:25] sign documents, and those signatures can be official signatures,
[00:10:28] very true. But you cannot win the heart of a city with decrees,
[00:10:32] you cannot enter the heart of a city." But, I mean, we don't think
[00:10:36] that the citizens have a concern about creating
[00:10:39] social consent. I mean, do citizens really have
[00:10:43] a concern about creating social consent, or has the threshold been
[00:10:46] crossed long ago? Let's get to that in a bit, Mr. Dündar, if you wish. So,
[00:10:49] this confession, or rather, Mr. Usta's statement,
[00:10:53] I shouldn't call it a confession. It's
[00:10:57] a clearer, more distinct explanation than
[00:11:00] the allegations in the process that led to the annulment of the CHP convention,
[00:11:04] that is, to absolute nullity. They offered me the position of Deputy Mayor.
[00:11:07] Now, from the Turkish judiciary
[00:11:10] that issued the annulment decision, what kind
[00:11:14] of move would you expect here? What should happen, actually? Well,
[00:11:17] ideally, when we think about it, in a legal system where the rule
[00:11:21] of law prevails, citizens and the public
[00:11:25] would expect a similar process to be carried out
[00:11:28] for Üsküdar. Moreover, here,
[00:11:32] Mr. Tahsin may have inadvertently
[00:11:36] blurted it out. He says, "I don't think
[00:11:39] Ms. Sinem Dedetaş
[00:11:42] did the dirty
[00:11:45] work she was accused
[00:11:48] of. I wouldn't even attribute such a thing to her," he
[00:11:52] says. So, it means that in his opinion,
[00:11:55] Sinem Nedetaş, the currently imprisoned mayor of Üsküdar,
[00:11:58] is a clean mayor, an innocent mayor.
[00:12:02] He also makes such a confession. Therefore,
[00:12:05] if we look at another aspect of the issue,
[00:12:08] these municipal council members are changing
[00:12:12] parties, for one reason or another,
[00:12:14] but the voters
[00:12:17] didn't vote for them to
[00:12:20] take office in the parties they went to,
[00:12:23] did they? They voted for them to
[00:12:26] be in opposition. Doing something like this without
[00:12:30] the consent of the voters, in my opinion, is extremely
[00:12:33] wrong from an ethical point of view.
[00:12:36] You might say, what ethics are left? But
[00:12:39] we must defend ethical values to the very end.
[00:12:42] Today, look, Foça
[00:12:45] is a district where the Justice and Development
[00:12:48] Party did not even enter the elections.
[00:12:52] The mayorship was won there. But then what happened?
[00:12:55] The mayor was unable to attend
[00:12:59] the ceremonies held on September 11th, which is the anniversary
[00:13:03] of Foça's liberation. He was the host of the ceremonies.
[00:13:06] He could not attend the liberation ceremonies.
[00:13:10] Today, there was a local market
[00:13:13] in Foça. The tradesmen at the local market
[00:13:17] protested. So, the politician's
[00:13:21] momentum is actually
[00:13:24] determined by the people, by the voters
[00:13:27] who voted for him. If the voters
[00:13:31] are directing him in one direction,
[00:13:34] and he insists on going in the opposite
[00:13:38] direction, then I think the politician's
[00:13:40] career is over.
[00:13:43] Because any action against the will
[00:13:47] of the voters is a very important
[00:13:50] factor that prepares the end of that politician. These are now.
[00:13:53] faktördür. Bunlar artık.
[00:13:55] "Perhaps they will no longer receive votes from the Justice and Development Party
[00:13:59] voters either, because I talk, and conscience-minded
[00:14:02] Justice and Development Party voters also
[00:14:06] do not accept this. They say, 'We
[00:14:10] must win a mayorship and the council of that municipality
[00:14:13] with our votes, given with our free will.'
[00:14:16] Such behavior is not
[00:14:20] in line with our ethics or our expectations. Therefore,
[00:14:24] 'we absolutely do not approve,' they say. I have friends
[00:14:28] in Üsküdar, for example, I talk to them, and they
[00:14:31] evaluate it this way. Therefore, Mr.
[00:14:35] Gökçek compared it to the annulment
[00:14:37] case, very clearly, of course. The
[00:14:41] evidence here is very clear, very open,
[00:14:44] it's a confession. The other one was an allegation,
[00:14:48] an allegation, an allegation of annulment, here
[00:14:52] it's a confession. Exactly. There's also this:
[00:14:56] is it illegal for the AK Party to persuade a delegate or council member
[00:14:59] to join them, or for the CHP or
[00:15:02] the new Party? I mean, when you start
[00:15:05] to persuade a delegate, you are corrupting the will,
[00:15:09] invalidating the will. But when the AK Party
[00:15:12] presses the button and tries to do this as the Istanbul Provincial Directorate
[00:15:16] or district directorate, does it become an extremely political promise of office,
[00:15:19] for example, Professor Mütat? No, why would it? For example, when the
[00:15:23] İyi Party entered the elections, it brought Bilge Yılmaz from a serious
[00:15:27] university in the United States. So, he said, "If we become the government,
[00:15:30] I want to entrust the economy to you." And the man came. Is this political bribery?
[00:15:34] Can you, as a leader or official
[00:15:37] of a political party, be considered to be engaging in political bribery
[00:15:41] when you say who you will work with and what duties you will assign
[00:15:44] when you are coming to power? Can such a thing happen?
[00:15:47] No, it's a guarantee to the voters,
[00:15:50] of course, for the voters to feel at ease and peaceful
[00:15:53] with those you put in the spotlight, to feel secure.
[00:15:57] You provide them with inner peace and
[00:16:00] inner comfort with people you trust very much.
[00:16:04] This is very important. But a little
[00:16:07] while ago, before the program, when I was chatting with
[00:16:11] dear Uğur Abi, I said that Üsküdar is a turning point
[00:16:14] in Turkish political history, perhaps I mentioned it in the previous program,
[00:16:18] I still hold the same view. In this sense, I will say it
[00:16:22] very quickly, so that our dear viewers don't get confused
[00:16:26] with the numbers of who went and who came, and can follow the chronology.
[00:16:29] A contractor complains. Sinem Cetatış,
[00:16:32] the mayor of Üsküdar, is first detained and then arrested
[00:16:36] based on a contractor's complaint. "There is no conviction yet,
[00:16:39] nothing, but since imprisonment has turned into a punishment in Turkey,
[00:16:43] she is immediately arrested and sent to prison. What will happen to the prison?
[00:16:46] The Deputy Mayor, a Deputy Mayor is elected, Ms. Sibel
[00:16:50] is elected. Objections are raised to the Deputy Mayor, and the court
[00:16:53] immediately accepts the objections and initiates new votes. There are 28
[00:16:57] council members, plus the mayor, makes 29. They lose one, it drops to 27.
[00:17:01] What happens after that is very interesting. After 27,
[00:17:05] three of them are arrested. They
[00:17:27] were kept in a hotel or something, like kidnapping a footballer
[00:17:30] before a transfer contract. Exactly, like kidnapping a footballer
[00:17:34] in the 70s, they take them to a hotel. He himself
[00:17:37] says it. In fact, his exact statement is this, professor, if you'd like me to
[00:17:40] elaborate a bit: he says, "I was following all the developments
[00:17:44] in Trabzon, I had gone to collect hazelnuts, and when I came back, I found myself
[00:17:47] in a hotel in Izmit. He says a state official was waiting for us,
[00:17:51] meaning there was security with us. Even my wife didn't know,
[00:17:54] she was very angry," he says. So much secrecy, it was like
[00:17:58] a movie, like a President of the United
[00:18:01] States kidnapping operation. But you're just a council member,
[00:18:04] why the police, why the hotel, why the bodyguards? It comes
[00:18:07] to mind, but when you look at the result,
[00:18:11] of course, we are speaking based on this statement,
[00:18:15] did they leave the hotel, did they walk around, did they say "let's go"? So, we are saying this
[00:18:19] based on their statement that they stayed in the hotel. This is therefore
[00:18:22] not a good thing. However, what's very interesting is that
[00:18:26] while the voting was ongoing, you know, it ended 21-21,
[00:18:30] the vote was postponed. During the postponement,
[00:18:33] during the postponement, such arrests occur
[00:18:37] so that they don't vote, meaning it turned into an arrest after detention.
[00:18:41] So, they align those dates in such a way that those in detention also
[00:18:44] cannot vote. So, every thin political
[00:18:48] engineering has been calculated in the lesson. However, there is
[00:18:51] one more astonishing thing: while the votes were being cast,
[00:18:55] two more people, who had not resigned at all, who allegedly
[00:18:58] had no contact with the AK Party, and appeared to be CHP council members,
[00:19:02] also voted for the Justice and Development Party during the voting. Now,
[00:19:06] here, of course, also. So, if they are from the new party,
[00:19:10] the new party members should also think, "How did we make
[00:19:13] these people council members? Should we scrutinize more
[00:19:16] carefully from now on?" This is a lesson for them,
[00:19:20] a lesson for the new party. However,
[00:19:23] when Tahsin's statements are examined now,
[00:19:26] he says, "Such a deputy mayor is political
[00:19:30] bribery." Because if you set out with the same party,
[00:19:33] for example, if I am the general chairman, Ali, we will work
[00:19:36] together. "For example, Ali Gökçek, come, let's work, because we will make
[00:19:40] you a deputy chairman responsible for local governments,
[00:19:43] God willing, or we will make you a minister." That's one thing. But when you
[00:19:47] tell someone from another party, "You actually look like you're one of them,
[00:19:51] come join me," this is political immorality,
[00:19:54] it's a political deception, whatever
[00:19:58] you call it. Now, when looked at here,
[00:20:01] going to court, this is actually an absolute nullity, of course, this is an absolute
[00:20:05] nullity, because you
[00:20:08] are sitting down to a negotiation that is outside of
[00:20:12] all political and ethical
[00:20:15] values and norms to invalidate
[00:20:19] an election that was won, just like the Justice and Development
[00:20:22] Party said about the CHP, "You had men in pavilions, money
[00:20:26] and dollars flying around." But what if an objection is filed?
[00:20:30] Let me tell you now. The election ended
[00:20:32] 23-19. The court will say, "Well, one person,
[00:20:36] it will be 23 to 20." Or it would have been 22 to 20. If you
[00:20:40] take it from there and move it there, the result doesn't change, so it will be rejected. But
[00:20:43] this is important for it to go down in political history. If
[00:20:47] you say absolute nullity for a party that is 103 years old,
[00:20:50] then in a district here, beyond absolute nullity,
[00:20:54] with certain variations, social consent,
[00:20:57] in fact, I remembered last week, I said that it's as if
[00:21:01] the Justice and Development Party is saying, "From now on,
[00:21:04] we want to govern not with consent but with trouble." So,
[00:21:08] trouble is created, and with the trouble,
[00:21:11] in that way, a sort of takeover movement with transfers,
[00:21:14] arrests, and trustees. After the March 31,
[00:21:17] 2024 elections, the 26 to
[00:21:20] 13 balance changed. When you look at the AK Party at the district level,
[00:21:24] the AK Party has the majority in Istanbul. So, what is being talked about?
[00:21:27] Is this the beginning of a plan for the IBB
[00:21:30] to be implemented step by step? you're making trustee decisions
[00:21:34] I assume you will add something. I find it extremely negative
[00:21:38] for the image of the ruling Justice and Development Party
[00:21:41] to win the mayorship with such methods.
[00:21:44] Doesn't this reveal a dilemma? I mean,
[00:21:47] a political party led by
[00:21:51] Tayyip Bey, who is a master politician,
[00:21:54] a politician who knows very well how the pulse of the people beats,
[00:21:57] especially while in power,
[00:22:00] should not need such methods,
[00:22:03] I believe. And
[00:22:06] I must also say this: I have never
[00:22:10] attended any event of the Üsküdar municipality
[00:22:13] until today. I have never spoken
[00:22:16] with Ms. Sinem. However,
[00:22:19] one Sunday, Mr. Küçükşahin, and then I will
[00:22:22] at a restaurant/cafe within the boundaries
[00:22:26] of Beykoz Municipality. It was packed,
[00:22:29] people were having brunch. Ms. Sinem
[00:22:32] had come with her family and was sitting at one end
[00:22:36] of the very long cafe. Would you
[00:22:40] believe it, more than 80%
[00:22:42] of the people there
[00:22:45] went and took pictures
[00:22:48] with Ms. Sinem one by one.
[00:22:52] So, based on my observation,
[00:22:55] she is one of the politicians, one of the mayors,
[00:22:58] who has great public support. And I claim
[00:23:01] that if they release her on, believes that purchasing
[00:23:04] today, if a fair election is held
[00:23:06] in Üsküdar, where the ballot boxes
[00:23:10] are protected by everyone, by all political
[00:23:14] parties, Ms. Sinem will win again.
[00:23:18] I base this on that observation.
[00:23:28] While increasing the resistance of social opposition, it also increases the pressure of the government.
[00:23:31] So, there is no step back from either
[00:23:34] side. Now, today, we learned that the election for deputy mayor
[00:23:38] in the Islands will be canceled, or rather,
[00:23:41] renewed. So, inevitably, it comes to mind,
[00:23:45] is it going, is the Islands municipality also
[00:23:48] in the pot? Because there is a political
[00:23:51] storm that started with "shake up the municipalities." Ali Bey,
[00:23:55] you were there during the Islands elections, what happened there?
[00:23:58] Today I was on the Island,
[00:24:01] and today I also visited
[00:24:05] our resigned Deputy Mayor. They are trying to create
[00:24:08] a lot of speculation about him. Due to
[00:24:12] health problems, his sugar level actually
[00:24:15] rose to 600s, so we wish him well.
[00:24:19] And he had serious health problems, sugar rises from stress.
[00:24:23] Does he have stress? Of course, managing
[00:24:26] cities is not easy. Both urban
[00:24:30] and urban problems, bureaucratic problems, and political
[00:24:33] crises. All these events have clearly
[00:24:37] caused problems in his system. I wish him well
[00:24:40] again. You said,
[00:24:43] "Is it aimed at IBB?" Let's look at the Üsküdar issue from there.
[00:24:47] Now, the mayor is naturally an IBB
[00:24:51] council member. We see that Ms. Sinem got one
[00:24:55] vote. Okay. When you elect
[00:24:58] an AKP member in her place, he will also go to IBB
[00:25:02] as deputy mayor. That makes two votes
[00:25:05] for IBB. You also
[00:25:09] arrested two IBB council members,
[00:25:12] making it 4 votes. And also,
[00:25:16] one of the two people who voted for the AKP
[00:25:18] when it was 21-21 is also an IBB council
[00:25:22] member. That makes 5 votes in the IBB
[00:25:25] balance. The calculation is not just Üsküdar.
[00:25:28] Yes, there is a big calculation regarding Üsküdar. But
[00:25:32] you said, "Is it aimed at IBB?" This is the calculation. it's that simple.
[00:25:36] But, uh, let me tell you.
[00:25:40] Uh, because of that IBB council member, for example,
[00:25:43] uh, I will object to my teacher Mithat here.
[00:25:47] You said, teacher, one needs to choose carefully. true, you are
[00:25:51] very right,
[00:25:53] but it's 2024, council
[00:25:57] members, mayors are being determined and each
[00:26:00] of us, even if you were... we paid attention to merit, as you would there,
[00:26:04] we looked at their education, we looked at the neighborhood
[00:26:07] balance, for example, from every neighborhood
[00:26:11] of Üsküdar, maybe we can't write a council member from every neighborhood, but most neighborhoods
[00:26:15] need to be represented, it needs to be represented
[00:26:18] according to the demographic structure of Üsküdar, so you
[00:26:21] form a council, there should be an architect, maybe an accountant
[00:26:24] too, by paying attention to such things,
[00:26:27] and politics also has its own dynamics, we write according to them as much as
[00:26:31] it allows. "while doing this,
[00:26:34] for example, our acting mayor of Şile
[00:26:37] joined AKP, what were we going to do, I mean, Ali Bey,
[00:26:41] I apologize, I received a warning from my director that we had a problem with your microphone,
[00:26:45] put a comma, I will continue with my teacher Mithat,
[00:26:49] I mean, teacher Mithat, now Ali Bey made his introduction, but the political
[00:26:52] climate we live in, the election of a deputy mayor
[00:26:55] will be repeated, either by court decision or by your own decision,
[00:26:59] it is enough to ask what is happening." "I mean, such a
[00:27:03] political climate, now elections will be renewed in the islands,
[00:27:06] why? Due to health
[00:27:09] reasons, a previous court decision had renewed it,
[00:27:13] the situation is clear, I mean, is this a process
[00:27:16] you foresee continuing in the medium
[00:27:19] and long term until the election?
[00:27:22] I mean, it's probably heading towards a metropolitan municipality, I mean, a,
[00:27:25] my guess is, uh, 2000 economy
[00:27:29] the day before yesterday, the candidate responsible for the elections in 2028 said,
[00:27:40] "if we held elections, it would be considered an early election." However, I don't think the economy will last until a week before the normal election
[00:27:44] in 2028. In fact, in a previous program, probably Ebru Baki's program,
[00:27:47] I had said that I,
[00:27:51] I mean, this was
[00:27:55] in April-May, I said that there could even be a snap election
[00:27:57] around October-November, this October-November.
[00:28:01] But it didn't happen, I mean, we were wrong there, there was no snap election.
[00:28:04] My argument was this:
[00:28:08] President Trump of the United States, in his perspectives
[00:28:12] on the region, would prefer to continue
[00:28:15] with Tayyip Erdoğan, or in his imaginations
[00:28:19] and certain constructions regarding Turkey and the region,
[00:28:22] he would prefer the Justice and Development Party and its leader to remain in power.
[00:28:25] Therefore, in November, probably due to the partial midterm elections
[00:28:29] of the Senate, he would lose the elections.
[00:28:32] I was saying that there could be a snap election before Trump declines
[00:28:36] and before the economy worsens. Now that it hasn't happened,
[00:28:39] according to my prediction, the economy will not be able to handle this
[00:28:42] until 2028 at such a
[00:28:45] level, so it could happen in 2027.
[00:28:49] Now, let's say it's 2027, in October of 2027,
[00:28:52] in these times next year, in October or November, during that process,
[00:28:56] the Justice and Development Party
[00:28:59] will think of appointing its own mayor
[00:29:03] or deputy mayor and proceeding
[00:29:05] according to those coordinates,
[00:29:08] and that it has made plans for this, I'm thinking this to myself,
[00:29:12] it might be true or not, but the trend
[00:29:15] shows that if you win 26 districts out of 39 districts
[00:29:19] of Istanbul after many years, and lose 16
[00:29:22] districts, and all of this happens
[00:29:25] with court decisions, then the trend shows that this is heading towards a metropolitan
[00:29:29] municipality. So here, we must also say that
[00:29:32] actually, sometimes, of course, we need to refer
[00:29:35] to certain references of political science. This
[00:29:39] is a very important thing in Jürgen Habermas's distinction between legality
[00:29:43] and legitimacy, as I always say. If you try to manage
[00:29:46] political dynamics solely with court decisions,
[00:29:50] abandoning consensus and consent,
[00:29:53] then that place is not governed by the consent of the people,
[00:29:56] it becomes a republic of judges,
[00:29:59] and actually turns into a rule of the minority.
[00:30:02] It's as if he's describing today's Turkey. You get a court decision
[00:30:06] from everywhere, is it legal? Since there are courts, it's legal,
[00:30:09] but is it legitimate? It's not legitimate.
[00:30:13] For it to be legitimate, I, Uğur Abi, Ali Gökçek,
[00:30:17] all the cameramen here, everyone needs to internalize it.
[00:30:19] If there's a problem with internalization,
[00:30:23] then there's a legitimacy problem.
[00:30:26] Okay, one more thing, one more sentence I want to say,
[00:30:29] now Ali Bey, I'm saying this so he can continue, here, of course. What
[00:30:32] I want to say is not only for Üsküdar,
[00:30:36] I mean, you see, someone from Keçiören comes out at night,
[00:30:39] the general chairman sends messages, gives negative answers,
[00:30:43] uh, I don't know, someone from Afyon goes to the other side,
[00:30:46] Aydın does that, I mean, I could list many more things, but
[00:30:50] I don't want to waste time, I mean, therefore, something here
[00:30:53] was rushed, or certain circles within the party,
[00:30:57] certain individuals presented different candidates,
[00:31:01] there isn't such a homogeneous
[00:31:03] careful selection process, but it's not the end of the world, this should be a
[00:31:07] lesson. Personally, if I were in this situation, I would say,
[00:31:11] "yes, I will do it differently next time" instead of objecting. That's what I would do.
[00:31:15] Ali Bey, you were left, please. I will give an example, teacher.
[00:31:18] A thief broke into our house yesterday, teacher. He entered at night, and I had locked the door from below.
[00:31:22] Today, when I told you, you said, "Ali, you also needed to lock it from above."
[00:31:26] And I say, "Teacher, isn't the thief at fault at all?" You say, "Ali, you should have locked it from above.
[00:31:30] Did you also close the window, Ali? Did you inform security, Ali?"
[00:31:33] So, Mrs. Özdem, Aydın
[00:31:37] served as our member of parliament for many terms, and as our mayor.
[00:31:41] The deputy group leader of Afyon
[00:31:45] has done this. Look,
[00:31:48] this year, this term is my first term. I went to parliament.
[00:31:51] No matter how much politics you do as a newly elected MP,
[00:31:55] there is a different bureaucracy and diplomacy there.
[00:31:59] There are things you need to learn. Who do you follow?
[00:32:02] Your group deputy chairmen sit in front, right? You follow your group deputy chairmen.
[00:32:06] They intervene where and when, they are in charge of internal affairs. How
[00:32:09] do they act? When I went to parliament,
[00:32:13] Ms. Burcu was my group deputy chair. Of course, she was the person
[00:32:17] I tried to learn from about how parliament works in the weeks when it was her turn
[00:32:21] to be group deputy chair. She joined the AKP.
[00:32:24] Now, how should we
[00:32:26] filter these people, considering
[00:32:30] that there were 4 rounds of voting, and in the first
[00:32:33] round, two votes didn't come out, one vote went to AKP.
[00:32:36] So we came out not 21-21,
[00:32:39] but 22-19. We came out
[00:32:42] as 22-20, I apologize. And it's clear who it was,
[00:32:46] our friend is clear, I mean,
[00:32:49] I went to our group room, I'm drinking
[00:32:52] tea, meanwhile, we go inside again, we talk to our friends,
[00:32:55] those who voted come, I saw Onur Bey's
[00:32:59] state, I felt sad, I was truly
[00:33:03] sad, and I thought something bad would happen to him,
[00:33:06] I really thought he would have a heart attack regarding his health, God forbid something would happen,
[00:33:10] I told him this, Onur, I said, I don't know what
[00:33:13] you're going through, I don't know
[00:33:17] what choice you made between what, brother,
[00:33:20] I said, but you need to sit down and catch your breath,
[00:33:23] I'm afraid something will happen to you, I said. Today, he
[00:33:26] can explain it there, or he can remain
[00:33:30] silent, but no one does this
[00:33:34] like Tahsin Bey, Tahsin Bey says, "we passed, nothing happened,"
[00:33:38] there are friends who do this without being able to digest it.
[00:33:42] I am sad, but these people don't just
[00:33:45] move happily with incentives,
[00:33:48] I mean, when you see that mood,
[00:33:51] everyone expects a character, a stance, but I also felt sad for the person
[00:33:55] I saw in front of me, frankly, maybe I will get a reaction from our
[00:33:58] voters, "why are you softening things, or
[00:34:02] why are you trying to empathize, they need to stand
[00:34:05] firm, they need to protect the will of the nation."
[00:34:09] I agree with all of it, but I saw a person who was withered,
[00:34:12] whose will was gone. I am also concerned with how he was brought to that state.
[00:34:28] I cannot empathize. I agree with my esteemed professor in this respect, in 2014,
[00:34:32] my children passed the entrance exams for good schools
[00:34:35] for their high school education, we went to İzmir for a temporary period,
[00:34:39] so they could study in a beautiful city,
[00:34:42] in a social way, in the midst of
[00:34:45] a lifestyle where they could
[00:34:49] comfortably and easily travel without losing time in traffic.
[00:34:52] We went to İzmir so they could study.
[00:34:56] Immediately, a rumor was spread, "Uğur Dündar came here
[00:34:59] to design the Republican People's Party." I have never had any involvement
[00:35:03] with active politics
[00:35:06] throughout my life. I don't
[00:35:09] have such an intention. No matter how much
[00:35:12] I said, I couldn't convince
[00:35:15] them. In the end, my children finished their education, we came
[00:35:19] here, they studied abroad, they returned. I'll get to the point,
[00:35:22] the Foça Mayor, who was nominated
[00:35:25] by those who said "Uğur Dündar came to İzmir
[00:35:28] to design the CHP," joined the Justice and Development Party
[00:35:32] in the district where the Justice
[00:35:35] and Development Party did not participate in the election.
[00:35:38] Of course, of course.
[00:35:42] Professor, please. Finally, let me say this.
[00:35:45] Uğur Bey told a very nice story about Sinem Hanım. I went to Beykoz
[00:35:49] to see what kind of interest and attention
[00:35:52] there was. Now, all those friends
[00:35:55] who showed that interest to Sinem Hanım
[00:35:58] are completely (I'll say it in quotation marks)
[00:36:02] cursed in society. Those people can no longer
[00:36:06] walk in society because Sinem Hanım,
[00:36:09] those who showed those reactions, those who showed that interest,
[00:36:13] will now show different reactions to these friends.
[00:36:16] Those who do this work must take this into account,
[00:36:20] especially to young friends, I say this even more.
[00:36:23] It's not like I'll finish this term and close it.
[00:36:27] I'm asking through the islands, I mean, we've seen this movie before,
[00:36:31] we saw it in Üsküdar, we saw it in Bayrampaşa, we saw it in Menemen,
[00:36:34] we saw it everywhere, we are experienced. Now, if a deputy mayoral election
[00:36:37] is to be repeated in the Islands, the incident
[00:36:40] that happened yesterday or in Menemen comes to my mind. Could there
[00:36:44] be transfers, and, uh, like in movies,
[00:36:48] stealing members, hotels, security and so on?
[00:36:51] It's very new, so, uh, if I say something
[00:36:55] about it now, we would be looking at it the same way from all sides.
[00:36:58] Then what we experienced in Üsküdar would seem abstract.
[00:37:01] What we experienced in Üsküdar was very real. If we experience it in the Islands, we will describe
[00:37:04] it with the same reality, but for now, I have contacted
[00:37:08] our council members, there is no problem with them,
[00:37:12] we are standing where we are,
[00:37:14] it was just necessary to make a decision due to a health problem.
[00:37:18] Now a new friend, I wish Turkey wasn't in this situation
[00:37:22] so we wouldn't have to think that someone leaving due to health
[00:37:26] problems, saying "I can't perform my duty well, someone better should take over,"
[00:37:30] is an excuse. But you are right,
[00:37:33] uh, but I talked to our council members there,
[00:37:36] there's nothing like that. I want to say something, so, of course,
[00:37:40] one should not act on an individual basis, because as
[00:37:44] I speak, Ali Gökçek, uh, as a Member of Parliament
[00:37:47] of the New Party, will inevitably be in a defensive
[00:37:50] position. But what I'm saying is not really a criticism
[00:37:54] of a party; it could be another party tomorrow.
[00:37:57] What I'm saying is something else. For example, Uğur Abi said:
[00:38:01] The Justice and Development Party did not participate in the election
[00:38:04] in Foça. The elected Mayor in a place where they did not participate
[00:38:07] in the election says, "You didn't participate, but I will honor you and
[00:38:11] crown you, I will join the AKP." The former mayor,
[00:38:14] who was a town mayor, Öz abi, is protesting him.
[00:38:18] For example, sevgili Ali Gökçek mentioned Beykoz. As far
[00:38:22] as I know, it's not Beykoz. Who brought him, why did they bring him?
[00:38:25] Alaattin Köseler was arrested, he was elected.
[00:38:28] "He was elected on Monday, and on Thursday he says he's joining the AKP, almost.
[00:38:32] Can such a thing happen? Now, okay, there might be some rotten
[00:38:36] apples, but what I wanted to say here was something else, but there's no
[00:38:39] time. I mean, the time is running out.
[00:38:43] The law on political parties needs to change, mayor, member of parliament,
[00:38:46] the members should elect this. I mean, they should have a responsibility
[00:38:50] towards the society that elects them, so that they would be ashamed.
[00:38:54] As long as they don't elect these, they say, "the general chairman and friends elected me."
[00:38:58] When they receive a few harsh messages, they say, "it's done, it's over."
[00:39:01] When someone sees them in the market and says, "aren't you ashamed?",
[00:39:05] they say, "did you elect me? Did you put me there?"
[00:39:09] We need to get rid of this. Let the members elect their own,
[00:39:12] let them elect the mayoral candidates, if it becomes vacant somehow, let the people elect again, we are saying this too,
[00:39:16] hah, I mean, this is here,
[00:39:19] here, the real will of the people is not just
[00:39:22] in the ballot box every 5 years, but also
[00:39:26] in some elections before the ballot box.
[00:39:33] We say we will choose all our members, yes, that's what
[00:39:37] I'm trying to say. Well, now, yesterday, a notification
[00:39:40] went from the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office of the Court of Cassation to the New Party,
[00:39:43] saying that the name of the New Party is very likely
[00:39:46] to be confused with the Yenilik Party, citing this as a reason,
[00:39:50] demanding an urgent change and stating that this name cannot
[00:39:53] Party's Central Executive Board met, and until
[00:40:00] September, the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office of the Court of Cassation needs
[00:40:04] to send a letter. Ultimately, Mr. Dündar also has such
[00:40:08] a blockade, I mean, front after front,
[00:40:12] the inability to use his name, the need to make such a change again,
[00:40:15] could it be made into an obligation to make a modification?
[00:40:19] On the one hand, spreading it out over time,
[00:40:23] spreading it out over a certain schedule, and if there's a snap election
[00:40:26] during that time, the new party cannot enter the election.
[00:40:30] Such advanced questions are coming, I haven't
[00:40:33] talked to anyone, but, uh, I think
[00:40:37] the new party has plans
[00:40:38] like a, b, c, d, e
[00:40:41] for all possibilities. They have made all their preparations.
[00:40:44] Moreover, it is natural for the Court of Cassation to make
[00:40:48] this notification, it is a duty they must perform.
[00:40:51] However, when you look at their logos, it becomes clear
[00:40:55] that the logos do not express any resemblance.
[00:40:58] There are many political parties whose name is justice,
[00:41:01] or starts with justice, there are a few political
[00:41:05] parties that start with republic.
[00:41:07] There are some political parties that start with republic.
[00:41:11] Therefore, while such a decision has not been made for them,
[00:41:14] it is also natural for us to expect the Constitutional
[00:41:18] Court to make an assessment by looking at the logos
[00:41:21] and, seeing the difference, to issue a decision in favor
[00:41:25] of the new party. What do you say, Ali Gökçek? Now,
[00:41:28] at the MYK meeting, it was decided to wait for the Constitutional Court's decision,
[00:41:32] a name change was not considered, but the fact
[00:41:35] that everything has a reason, that nothing in politics is coincidental,
[00:41:38] the fact that every step taken
[00:41:42] is actually the infrastructure of the next step,
[00:41:46] I mean, we've experienced so many things in the last year and a half,
[00:41:50] where we said, "ah, this was because of that, this was because of that,"
[00:41:53] and then witnessed many developments. The annulment decision
[00:41:57] is the most concrete one, the trustee decision that came to Istanbul,
[00:42:01] to the provincial chairmanship, is the most concrete one. Therefore,
[00:42:05] it seems that a state of siege continues.
[00:42:08] Meanwhile, I agree with what my teacher Uğur said.
[00:42:18] there is a decision to withdraw, Müslüm Sarı announced yesterday,
[00:42:22] what is happening? It seems there will be legal
[00:42:24] stages again. First, if we come
[00:42:28] to the name issue, as Uğur Bey
[00:42:30] also mentioned, the Constitutional Court will make a decision,
[00:42:34] but when the Constitutional Court examines this, it doesn't just
[00:42:37] examine whether the names "Yeni Parti" and "Yenilik Partisi"
[00:42:41] are similar, while making this examination,
[00:42:45] it looks at the logo, it looks at the nickname,
[00:42:48] it looks at the abbreviation, moreover, it looks at whether
[00:42:52] the political conjuncture it evokes corresponds to the same place,
[00:42:55] that is, whether it makes the same connotations. In the end, it examines
[00:42:59] whether it can be confused when voting.
[00:43:02] It does not only examine similarity
[00:43:05] based on names. It will do this,
[00:43:08] uh, we will continue to use it,
[00:43:11] we think that the Constitutional Court will make a decision
[00:43:15] in our favor here.
[00:43:17] Let's say it doesn't, uh, today I read such
[00:43:20] beautiful tweets, such beautiful
[00:43:24] things when this conversation came up on the street,
[00:43:27] "you can call it whatever you want, brother, we are following your path,
[00:43:31] we will give way to wherever you go, we will vote for you,"
[00:43:34] people say, "we will be with you."
[00:43:38] The people already gave this name. "If you change the name given by the people,
[00:43:41] the people will give a new name and support that name.
[00:43:45] This is not a matter that is currently
[00:43:49] on our agenda, frankly, uh, and they must
[00:43:52] withdraw their appeal. Why? Because
[00:43:56] it's actually connected to the Üsküdar issue.
[00:44:00] It had nothing to do with it, but how is it connected?
[00:44:03] A decision was made there, an annulment.
[00:44:07] It is one of the most wrong legal decisions made in Turkey."
[00:44:10] It's a bold statement, but it's really like that, because there is no precedent for this
[00:44:13] decision. This decision was made for the first time in the history of the republic
[00:44:17] regarding a political party, and since it was not
[00:44:21] in the political parties law, they couldn't find a reason there,
[00:44:25] so they went to civil law and gave an annulment
[00:44:27] decision with forced reasons.
[00:44:31] For this to be approved by the Court of Cassation
[00:44:34] means that the friend who walked around
[00:44:37] every street in Üsküdar saying "hello, we are here now, we are neighbors"
[00:44:41] will not be able to sit there, because
[00:44:44] it will set a precedent. It will set a precedent.
[00:44:47] If the Court of Cassation approves this decision,
[00:44:51] and they withdraw their appeal, if we withdraw our internal appeal
[00:44:54] tomorrow, the Court of Cassation must discuss this issue.
[00:44:57] The Court of Cassation must discuss this issue and eliminate
[00:45:01] this legal absurdity, because if it does not,
[00:45:03] then no election in Turkey, neither a society election
[00:45:07] nor a general election, can be finalized. Definitely.
[00:45:18] Did he take this step, this legal step, for that? He took it to remove this decision from the Court of Cassation. Everyone knows that it has to be overturned.
[00:45:20] From the moment the Court of Cassation made this decision,
[00:45:24] there was no longer a Supreme Election Board.
[00:45:28] A court can make a wrong
[00:45:30] decision, that's why there are
[00:45:33] higher courts, there is appeal,
[00:45:37] there is the Constitutional Court and so on.
[00:45:40] It can make a decision, but if the Court of Cassation
[00:45:43] approves this decision, then no election
[00:45:47] in Turkey can be finalized after this decision. You can also go and apply for an election from 10 years ago,
[00:45:50] you can also apply for an election from 4 years ago, it won't happen because it can't be finalized.
[00:45:54] Moreover, after you approve this,
[00:45:57] after Tahsim Bey's statement in Üsküdar,
[00:46:01] there should already be an annulment there. What is an annulment?
[00:46:04] "That election should be cancelled.
[00:46:07] If we say the election is void,
[00:46:11] then Ms. Hanım and Sibel Çetinkaya should also
[00:46:14] go and sit in the Üsküdar deputy mayorship again.
[00:46:17] If you ask me, the annulment decision that should be taken
[00:46:21] is for Sinem Hanım to come and sit there. Let's say it's for the last election,
[00:46:24] this needs to be removed after Tahsim Bey's statement.
[00:46:28] That's why they wanted to avoid
[00:46:31] this decision from the Court of Cassation, but
[00:46:35] I repeat, not the republic.
[00:46:39] For all
[00:46:52] previous and future elections from today,
[00:46:55] this legal absurdity must be discussed and removed.
[00:46:59] The CHP spokesperson, Müslüm Sarık, says, "uh, my esteemed teachers,
[00:47:03] we are withdrawing this lawsuit, that is,
[00:47:06] we are waiving it, in order to initiate
[00:47:10] the congress process." But they were saying, "there's a precautionary measure, there's a file
[00:47:14] in the Court of Cassation, so we can't hold a congress," right? So they say, "we took this step to start that calendar
[00:47:18] as soon as possible." Uh, but in the corridors
[00:47:21] also...
[00:47:27] said that this decision was about to come out. He tweeted about it the other day from his X
[00:47:30] account. The President said the same thing.
[00:47:33] I said
[00:47:36] there is a similarity. Uğur Bey took
[00:47:39] a deep breath. When you said the sentence,
[00:47:43] Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu said, "I am
[00:47:46] not in the annulment at all."
[00:47:48] To me, he is in every part of it.
[00:47:52] This is my personal opinion. Without
[00:47:56] his consent, no one, I mean, as I said,
[00:47:59] no step in politics can be considered accidental.
[00:48:02] Now, on Sunday, I was here on the main news. Şamil Bey tweeted
[00:48:06] on Saturday evening, "I met with my high-level judicial
[00:48:09] friends, the decision is ready. The absolute annulment decision
[00:48:13] will come from the Court of Cassation at the beginning of October or November."
[00:48:17] Let's say Kemal Bey is right, he is not involved
[00:48:20] in any part of the annulment application, but during
[00:48:24] that process, he could have made statements
[00:48:28] that clarified the public, answered the questions in the public's
[00:48:31] mind, and stated that he had no part
[00:48:35] in it. Kemal Bey always remained silent. Kemal Bey's
[00:48:38] silence is, in a way,
[00:48:41] an admission. Kemal Bey was
[00:48:44] in every part of the annulment lawsuit, nine
[00:48:48] members of parliament were expelled without a party council decision.
[00:48:52] "Someone who says 'I have no part in the annulment' and takes over the leadership of the party
[00:48:55] does not expel members of parliament, is that possible?
[00:48:59] Our provincial chairmen were expelled, our district chairmen were expelled.
[00:49:03] Mr. Gökçek, many things we said wouldn't happen
[00:49:06] are happening, many things we said wouldn't happen
[00:49:09] are happening, that's enough, so I agree with you.
[00:49:13] We were talking about it in the programs
[00:49:16] back then, the Republican People's Party had two congresses back to back,
[00:49:20] three meetings, 6 years, 6 years to close the congress."
[00:49:29] What will happen if it is closed? We were talking about what will happen. Now, there, in a hurry, this schedule and this legal
[00:49:33] Looking at the congestion, a new party
[00:49:36] was established. Now, those who left at that time left, so
[00:49:40] we will withdraw it now. When we withdraw it, what will happen absolutely? They will hold their own congress
[00:49:43] without waiting for the Supreme Court's decision, and they say the party is ours.
[00:49:46] So, the development is exactly like that. If,
[00:49:50] well.
[00:49:52] If the Supreme Court had decided at that time, saying "no, this decision
[00:49:56] is wrong," no one would have probably left the party. They would have gone to the
[00:49:59] congress again. That is,
[00:50:02] the historical course of this party would have been different. We also know
[00:50:06] that a file in this case has been pending in the Supreme Court for years, but since this is a decision
[00:50:10] that can affect Turkish politics and legal history so much,
[00:50:13] the Supreme Court should finalize the file as soon as possible.
[00:50:17] I agree. The Supreme Court will definitely evaluate this
[00:50:20] and act according to the rule of law.
[00:50:29] When we said, "Let's hold a general assembly," they said, "There is a court decision, we can't," and then we went with the proposal
[00:50:32] that both sides withdraw their appeal applications. We'll withdraw ours, you withdraw yours. But now
[00:50:36] they've withdrawn them, and when we said, "Let the decision be finalized, you can go to the general assembly now,"
[00:50:40] those who said they couldn't withdraw the appeal application
[00:50:44] today filed an appeal. We have completed the first
[00:50:47] hour. We will be back in 10 minutes for the second
[00:50:50] hour.
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[01:00:13] Orbus.
[01:00:23] We are starting the second hour without censorship, and as of
[01:00:26] this hour, lawyer Ertun Çözün is also with us. Welcome, Ertun
[01:00:29] Çözün. Thank you for coming. Now, in the first hour, we discussed
[01:00:33] the transitions, transfers,
[01:00:35] operations, investigations in the midst of this political storm,
[01:00:39] the notification that came through the name of the new party, the new party's
[01:00:43] decision not to change the name in today's MYK, and
[01:00:46] the issue of CHP's waiver of its application.
[01:00:49] But now, citizens are certainly following what's happening,
[01:00:52] observing, making an interpretation, and
[01:00:55] public opinion polls share those interpretations with the public
[01:00:59] every month with their work, the polling firms. Now,
[01:01:02] Gündem Araştırma is one of the reputable public opinion research
[01:01:06] firms. We frequently feature Gündem Araştırma's
[01:01:09] research results. They shared a striking
[01:01:13] survey result for August. As you know, we are in September,
[01:01:16] and when we look at it comparatively, I'm talking about a research
[01:01:20] that has striking results that make you wonder what's happening.
[01:01:23] If there were parliamentary elections this Sunday, who would you vote for? This is
[01:01:27] a classic public opinion research question,
[01:01:30] and when we looked at July, we saw the new party's vote share
[01:01:34] about 12 points higher than the AK Party's,
[01:01:38] 38.58% to 27.43%.
[01:01:40] The AK Party's vote share was in decline compared
[01:01:44] to June. We are talking about a rate of 3.77%.
[01:01:47] We came to this month, or rather, the August
[01:01:51] survey. It was shared yesterday
[01:01:54] by the research firm. And this time, we see
[01:01:58] the AK Party in the first place, and there's an increase
[01:02:01] of almost 1% in its vote share. When we look at the past month,
[01:02:05] there is a decrease of approximately 12 points in the New Party.
[01:02:08] Here, some parties are also showing movement. Like the Party
[01:02:12] of 8.21, there is an increase of 3.65%
[01:02:14] compared to a month ago. There is an increase in the votes of the DEM Party,
[01:02:18] there is an increase in the votes of the MHP, but the CHP's votes
[01:02:22] are still below 5%, that is, below the threshold.
[01:02:25] If there were an election this Sunday. Now, Tamer Bolat,
[01:02:29] the director of the public opinion
[01:02:32] a significant figure, shares this
[01:02:35] about these breakdowns: He says that in July,
[01:02:39] they measured the new party as the first party. This rate
[01:02:43] was quite important not only because it showed
[01:02:46] the initial interest in a newly established party, but also
[01:02:50] because it showed the extent of the voters' search for a new political address.
[01:02:53] That's right, we had already discussed this in this way.
[01:02:57] A strong start does not mean that a strong
[01:03:00] political position is permanent. He says that in our August
[01:03:04] research, we will see how the voting on the framework law on August 10th,
[01:03:07] where Özel and the party leadership said yes,
[01:03:10] but the majority of the deputies voted no,
[01:03:14] and the attitude that emerged and was called 'have et' in public
[01:03:17] opinion, affected this strong start that was formed
[01:03:21] with the establishment of the new party. And today, this situation that has emerged,
[01:03:24] that is, a 12% decrease in the party's votes,
[01:03:27] is attributed to the 'have et' attitude by Tamer Bolat.
[01:03:31] That's what we understand. This seems like a very radical difference. One or two
[01:03:35] points, 3 points, are understandable in these surveys,
[01:03:38] but you have been following many firms for years,
[01:03:42] I know. How would you evaluate this 12-point difference? Now, the research
[01:03:45] company you mentioned is a reputable institution.
[01:03:49] I find its results very important,
[01:03:52] I value them. There are a few others like it,
[01:03:56] but in the meantime, I think it's useful
[01:03:59] for our viewers, readers, and followers
[01:04:03] to know that there are some research companies that exist solely
[01:04:06] for manipulation and will disappear
[01:04:10] after the elections, and that their purpose, I repeat,
[01:04:13] is manipulation. Now, if you notice,
[01:04:17] there is no significant change in the votes of the Justice
[01:04:20] and Development Party. Yes, on the other hand,
[01:04:23] the fact that Chairman Özgür Özel
[01:04:26] said yes in the "Turkey Without Terror"
[01:04:31] vote, but gave his deputies freedom to vote no,
[01:04:35] was not evaluated by the public
[01:04:39] as they had hoped, and we see
[01:04:42] that a certain amount of votes
[01:04:46] shifted as a reaction. In this,
[01:04:49] the rise of the Good Party
[01:04:53] is noteworthy. If you notice,
[01:04:57] the Good Party has suddenly
[01:05:00] risen from 4.56% to 8.21%.
[01:05:03] This is a very striking and radical
[01:05:06] rise. The same goes for the Victory Party.
[01:05:10] However, I consider this to be
[01:05:12] a conjunctural preference.
[01:05:16] As long as Özgür Özel and the New Party members
[01:05:19] share enlightening information
[01:05:22] with the public on this issue
[01:05:26] and explain their intentions, the July results, my esteemed colleague?
[01:05:29] I consider these to be to its former state,
[01:05:32] because we see that the issues
[01:05:35] that influenced the public when saying no to the ruling
[01:05:38] party have not changed at all.
[01:05:41] The economy is directly
[01:05:45] the economy. Now, when you
[01:05:48] started the program, you said
[01:05:52] that a liter of gasoline has almost reached
[01:05:54] 100 liras. Yes, that means
[01:05:58] we will now be using
[01:06:00] three-digit numbers. And in such
[01:06:03] an economy, even if Mr. Mehmet
[01:06:06] Şimşek were a magician,
[01:06:10] the things he could do would be very limited,
[01:06:13] because the increase in fuel prices affects
[01:06:17] the entire economic
[01:06:18] circulation. For our society,
[01:06:21] which has developed
[01:06:23] based on road
[01:06:25] transportation, it will surely
[01:06:29] affect the entire domestic market, from A to Z.
[01:06:32] The increase in fuel prices affects everything from A to Z,
[01:06:36] Ms. Sinem. The other day, I was
[01:06:40] returning from the Gırgıriye musical tour in Ankara.
[01:06:42] It was 2 o'clock in the morning.
[01:06:45] Professor, we entered the Marmara, North Marmara highway,
[01:06:48] and suddenly I felt like I was in
[01:06:52] Istanbul's daytime traffic. Trucks were passing on the right,
[01:06:55] trucks were passing on the left, and we were going.
[01:06:59] "Slowly, almost in first gear,
[01:07:02] at 2 o'clock in the morning.
[01:07:06] Such road transportation. Therefore,
[01:07:09] I don't think the economy
[01:07:12] can recover.
[01:07:15] No matter how hard Mr. Mehmet Şimşek tries,
[01:07:19] bless him, let's admit that
[01:07:22] or give him credit, he tries very hard, but
[01:07:26] as I said, it's not possible to fix it
[01:07:28] under these circumstances. They can't cut public spending, but Uğur abi
[01:07:32] can't do anything, it seems. It seems he can't get through to some places.
[01:07:36] Yes, it seems he doesn't have a say in some places. We also see
[01:07:39] that in the headlines of some newspapers
[01:07:42] referred to as pro-government, don't we, Professor? Of course, we see it.
[01:07:46] Mr. Mehmet Şimşek was criticized by
[01:07:49] Mehmet Bey, that is, he
[01:07:53] is an economist known for enriching the rich. In periods of inflation,
[01:07:56] this is an inevitable result. The rich get richer,
[01:07:59] the poor get poorer. If there are 19,865
[01:08:03] official public vehicles in a country like Germany,
[01:08:06] but only 12,000 here, you should sit down and think.
[01:08:09] This won't get better easily, unfortunately not.
[01:08:12] Of course, of course. Had you completed
[01:08:16] kolay kolay maalesef düzelmez tabii tabii ya şimdi bu temmuz sonuçları
[01:08:20] conjunctural, because
[01:08:23] I believe that there has been no change in the factors
[01:08:26] and facts that would affect the voter's preference,
[01:08:29] and on the contrary, the economy
[01:08:33] has developed against it.
[01:08:36] That is, there is no dynamic that would cause
[01:08:39] the vote to increase? "Yes,
[01:08:42] the economy is still strong despite this turbulence,
[01:08:46] despite the extraordinary rise
[01:08:49] in oil prices caused by
[01:08:52] our friend Trump's war with Iran.
[01:08:55] The economy did not suffer
[01:08:58] so many
[01:09:00] severe
[01:09:03] wounds. Mr. Dünder made a very accurate reading. That is,
[01:09:06] there is no dynamic that would cause
[01:09:10] the AK Party's vote to go up."
[01:09:13] But there is a slight increase. The significant decrease
[01:09:17] is seen in the votes of the new party according to Gündem Araştırma,
[01:09:21] and Tamer Bolat says that the public opinion poll
[01:09:24] conducted in the first month would reveal whether it was
[01:09:28] a result of the excitement for a new party, or people looking for an alternative.
[01:09:31] And indeed, it seems it has. He has such an interpretation.
[01:09:34] How would you evaluate this, Mr. Gökçek?
[01:09:38] Well, based on this analysis,
[01:09:41] if we say that our chairman and
[01:09:44] his administration saying yes to the framework law,
[01:09:48] and some deputies saying no, and receiving a backlash for it
[01:09:51] is invalid,
[01:09:53] then we would be disrespecting
[01:09:56] the positive and negative reactions we received
[01:10:00] from our surroundings, from society, and
[01:10:03] from our party members, as well as
[01:10:06] the sensitivities of the entire society.
[01:10:09] Yes, we also received reactions on this issue,
[01:10:12] that's true. I even agree
[01:10:15] with the assessment that a new party
[01:10:18] was founded, there's new excitement,
[01:10:21] and it's also true that the vote share in the polls
[01:10:25] is higher than expected.
[01:10:28] This will settle down with time, then it might
[01:10:31] rise again, or maybe fall again, but
[01:10:35] the new party gave its first test
[01:10:38] on a very serious issue for Turkey.
[01:10:41] And as soon as it was founded, it gave a test
[01:10:44] on Turkey's 50-year-old problem. Here,
[01:10:47] our Chairman, while saying yes,
[01:10:51] explained in his speech that perhaps
[01:10:54] we are the ones who deserve to say no the most,
[01:10:57] but why we are saying yes. Of course, this might
[01:11:01] not have fully resonated with the public.
[01:11:04] Here, everyone might have made an initial
[01:11:08] emotional decision by seeing that the Republican People's
[01:11:12] Party said yes, or that some deputies of the Republican
[01:11:15] People's Party said no. However, I think
[01:11:19] that when this is correctly explained
[01:11:22] to the public, the public will clearly
[01:11:26] understand why the Republican People's Party
[01:11:29] made such a decision. Because,
[01:11:32] we are still establishing our districts, we are going
[01:11:36] to our district presidencies, we are still
[01:11:39] conducting field visits. For example,
[01:11:42] we said we would be in 81 provinces with all our deputies.
[01:11:45] Tomorrow, I am going to Ağrı with our Istanbul deputy
[01:11:48] Türkan Elçi. In Ağrı,
[01:11:52] I am sure I will meet citizens
[01:11:55] who ask "why did you say yes?", and citizens
[01:11:59] who ask "why did some deputies say no?".
[01:12:02] I believe we can explain very clearly
[01:12:06] to both groups of citizens why we said yes and why we said no.
[01:12:09] And I think that when we explain it, it will yield results. That's why we
[01:12:13] are doing these field visits. People might say, based on a single
[01:12:16] sentence they read, that Özgür Özel said yes, for example,
[01:12:20] the new chairman said yes, Ozan Hovra all said yes,
[01:12:24] and the deputies said no. I think we will break this down.
[01:12:27] Still, saying all of this from the start,
[01:12:30] being able to measure a loss of nearly 12%
[01:12:33] for the new party is really
[01:12:36] interesting to me. I'm not saying there was manipulation,
[01:12:39] but there's a margin of error
[01:12:43] in every poll. I think the margin
[01:12:46] of error is high here. Also, some
[01:12:49] citizens confuse the Republican People's Party with the new party. I believe
[01:12:53] that as a habit, they answer
[01:12:56] "Republican People's Party." Now, but if
[01:13:00] the pollster insists and says,
[01:13:03] "They separated, Özgür Özel founded the new party,
[01:13:06] and the Republican People's Party remained with Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu,"
[01:13:10] then they say, "Oh, okay." Something also caught my attention
[01:13:13] on social media. Sometimes I see street interviews where
[01:13:17] they ask, "If there were an election this Sunday, who would you vote for?" There is a significant number
[01:13:20] of citizens who say Özgür Özel.
[01:13:23] yurttaş kitlesi de.
[01:13:35] is not there. If we look at the August poll, not July, something
[01:13:39] else emerges. Now, the AKP and
[01:13:42] MHP, who introduced this bill,
[01:13:45] will have increased their votes.
[01:13:47] It's normal for the DEM Party to increase its votes,
[01:13:50] perhaps there are DEM Party members who didn't think this process
[01:13:54] could be resolved. When it came to a solution point, they said yes,
[01:13:58] they supported it again. But the MHP base will do this.
[01:14:01] Moreover, let me say something else, ultimately, the base of the New Party
[01:14:04] and the base of the Republican People's Party
[01:14:08] are the same people. When we look at it,
[01:14:11] they just formed the new party by separating
[01:14:15] a month ago, and many people
[01:14:18] who were Republican People's Party members joined the new party
[01:14:22] in different segments. So,
[01:14:25] it's a bit interesting that the Republican People's Party
[01:14:29] also increased its votes by 2%. Let's say the AKP and
[01:14:32] MHP were leading this, and people were with something
[01:14:36] different, tamam. And while the new party
[01:14:39] and the Republican People's Party's bases think almost
[01:14:42] the same, let's say,
[01:14:46] while they are so intertwined,
[01:14:49] there's a 12% loss there, and 5% here.
[01:14:52] And he's talking about 5 out of 2%.
[01:15:25] the halls are not full, and it's clear from the reaction
[01:15:28] on the street that we, the public opinion pollsters
[01:15:31] and journalists, are responsible for reflecting the voice
[01:15:34] of the public. When we take that picture,
[01:15:38] we don't encounter such a reality on the street.
[01:15:41] And actually, the Republican
[01:15:44] People's Party seems to have
[01:15:49] shown a 100% increase in its own votes, considering July,
[01:15:53] and the new party's vote loss is 30%.
[01:15:58] Because, as Uğur Bey said, there are still people who see
[01:16:02] the Republican People's Party with Mr. Özgür Özel, or who continue their habits.
[01:16:05] Indeed, Mr. Ali just started with "Republican People's Party, Republican People's Party."
[01:16:08] But it does have some effect.
[01:16:11] For example, if you say that all of the Republican
[01:16:14] People's Party's 4.999 votes were given incorrectly
[01:16:18] and you add them, then the decrease goes down to
[01:16:21] 7.5-8%, so there's a significant drop.
[01:16:25] Even if you think they all voted incorrectly, which is not the case, Professor. The issue of
[01:16:28] Turkey without terror seriously affected it.
[01:16:32] Before I came here today, I spoke with some Republican
[01:16:36] People's Party members, and they also
[01:16:41] evaluate it this way. Of course, it's true that it's conjunctural.
[01:16:45] For example, I spoke with the owners of a couple of polling
[01:16:48] companies. In some polls, the Good Party
[01:16:52] appears at 8.21, some show 9.16.
[01:16:55] Some even show 13.2. That is,
[01:16:58] these kind of deviations happen in polls,
[01:17:01] of course, but For example, if we
[01:17:04] take this as a reference, that is, if we take this table as a basis, it seems that the Justice and
[01:17:08] Development Party has reached a saturation point, as they say, a satisfaction point.
[01:17:11] It is at a saturation point,
[01:17:14] meaning it is not rising, it is not 32 33. Now,
[01:17:18] as you said, the votes of the
[01:17:21] İYİ Party, the new party, are at play. Now, the votes of the new party.
[01:17:25] Now, Turkey without terror, I completely agree, framework law and so on,
[01:17:28] but I think here, rather than saying
[01:17:32] "yes" to the framework law, "I say yes and
[01:17:35] release my friends," uh,
[01:17:38] such a... because this is not about Turkey.
[01:17:42] I mean, this was discussed. If the voters are following this as carefully
[01:17:45] as we are, there hasn't been a terror incident in Turkey
[01:17:49] for a long time. I mean, as it is told, this is actually
[01:17:53] with the emergence of the American Ambassador,
[01:17:57] uh, in the region, that is, with the drawing of a
[01:18:00] perspective that will cover the region, in other
[01:18:03] words, Turkey will not only maintain peace domestically, but also
[01:18:07] a hegemonic structure in Syria, and a hegemonic structure
[01:18:10] in Iran, and it is claimed that as a country that has solved this problem
[01:18:14] in the region, it is claimed that as a country that has solved this problem,
[01:18:17] it will, uh, solve its problems in the region,
[01:18:21] it will be a locomotive country. I will
[01:18:23] not think so, but it is claimed. Now, the voter
[01:18:27] looks like this, "this is a very important issue,
[01:18:30] Iran, Iraq, etc. related to Syria, then the main
[01:18:34] opposition should have a homogeneous view here,
[01:18:38] the general chairman thinks differently, party deputies think differently,
[01:18:42] I think the lack of a homogeneous and compact
[01:18:45] view of the main opposition, the ruling party candidate, plays a role,
[01:18:48] teacher, and also the general polarization
[01:18:52] in every issue, this table shows
[01:18:56] us its effect, yes. I mean,
[01:18:59] now, regarding 'Turkey without terror',
[01:19:03] a part of the citizens
[01:19:06] wants
[01:19:08] it to be said no. Yes,
[01:19:11] they want it to be said no.
[01:19:15] But when you look at the realities,
[01:19:18] you see that there are very important
[01:19:22] issues that require it to be said yes. Therefore,
[01:19:24] I think that politicians, risking losing
[01:19:28] votes, must take some
[01:19:31] steps for the benefit of Turkey. Yes,
[01:19:35] you are right about the reflections of polarization
[01:19:37] in voter preference. For example, the AKP
[01:19:40] has always kept its distance from the process.
[01:19:43] The AKP kept its distance from the process.
[01:19:47] There was a political risk taken here, and Mr. Bahçeli, the MHP leader,
[01:19:50] took it. According to these surveys,
[01:19:54] there were also drops in the vote share from time to time.
[01:19:58] The most surprising statements and actions came from Mr. Bahçeli.
[01:20:01] So what you said is important. Right, right, I
[01:20:05] agree too, but it was like this:
[01:20:08] this was not digested
[01:20:12] slowly, it went very fast,
[01:20:16] it didn't produce social consent and didn't explain it very well.
[01:20:19] For example, now, maybe it's not our topic today, but for example,
[01:20:23] in an interview given by Devlet Bahçeli to a journalist the other day, whose name
[01:20:26] I don't want to mention again, he said things like "housing is being built."
[01:20:30] For example, does Mr. President know about that, or was it just said?
[01:20:34] If it was said without his knowledge? "Actually, does he want to speed
[01:20:37] up this process and involve Mr. President even more as a catalyst?
[01:20:41] I mean, Mr. Bahçeli did this from time to time
[01:20:44] during that process." He made statements
[01:20:48] that meant "come on." Now,
[01:20:51] this also, for example, makes people... What are we talking about? We are talking
[01:20:54] about judicial executions here, aren't we? We are talking about
[01:20:58] unfair detentions. We are talking about how detention
[01:21:02] has turned into a punishment. On the other hand,
[01:21:06] we are talking about what a leader of a terrorist organization
[01:21:09] will do in his two-story villa. Now, the reasons
[01:21:13] for those who say no to this, those who say no,
[01:21:17] are so numerous that I think the failure
[01:21:19] to explain this well, the failure to produce social consent,
[01:21:23] is an important parameter. This is a very, very important thing.
[01:21:27] This needs to be explained. We are talking about Turkey's 40-year painful history.
[01:21:31] If 40 years have been spent, you will explain this for 40 months.
[01:21:34] Those under 50 years old don't know the
[01:21:37] conditions under which terror started and
[01:21:41] the suffering it caused. But now, my dear Seynem,
[01:21:44] this is just one dimension. For example, if there is really
[01:21:47] such a decrease, it varies according to each
[01:21:51] survey and survey company. I also agree with Uğur Abi that
[01:21:54] this can be conjunctural. You might see in the next survey what it says.
[01:21:58] For example, the İyi Party is here. Uh,
[01:22:02] the new party has 3858 one
[01:22:06] no, 28, uh,
[01:22:08] uh, it's written wrong, huh? 2695. 2695.
[01:22:11] In the next survey, for example, it might come out as 32.43 or 32.45.
[01:22:15] So it can be conjunctural, but this is just one parameter.
[01:22:19] For example, I wish
[01:22:22] that, for example, now Greece came to the island of Meis.
[01:22:25] I'll be very brief. It's changing another topic. Ankara's research is also
[01:22:29] there. Yes, for example, Michotakis came to the island of Meis. He's making a show of force
[01:22:33] there. Turkey wants to take from Dedeağaç to Crete.
[01:22:35] ağaçtan Girit'e kadar Türkiye.
[01:22:39] It made it with Israel again, and with Southern Cyprus, etc.,
[01:22:42] it's like this in the Eastern Mediterranean. Uh, exploration continues
[01:22:46] in the parcels belonging to Turkey. On the other hand, there is still
[01:22:49] the 12-mile case. Now, for example, if I were the new party,
[01:22:53] I would come out and say, "Turkey must immediately take
[01:22:57] initiative in the islands whose status has not been determined here."
[01:23:00] Look, for example, on the other hand, what do we expect from Turkey? Of course
[01:23:04] initiatives.
[01:23:07] Or what does it mean? We address
[01:23:10] the government, let's act with integrity until the end.
[01:23:13] Turkey should immediately start searching for natural gas
[01:23:16] in its own parcels in the Mediterranean. I personally hope that it will.
[01:23:28] I mean, I want to say this, without getting off topic,
[01:23:32] if you are an opposition party, there are many
[01:23:35] parameters in foreign policy, that's right.
[01:23:39] Now, do you have anything to add here, Ertunç Özcan, or should I continue with
[01:23:43] Ankara's? Now, Ankara has done a comprehensive study
[01:23:46] on the AK Party in the 2023 elections.
[01:23:50] I will share with you the results of a very comprehensive study
[01:23:53] on voter behavior and voter reflexes.
[01:23:56] Let's quickly look at the details. Who would the voters who voted for the AK Party
[01:24:00] in 2023 choose today? This is one of the August
[01:24:04] 2026 surveys. It says that
[01:24:07] 64.9% would still vote for the AK Party.
[01:24:11] Undecided, protest is 24%.
[01:24:14] This is important. There is a 10%
[01:24:17] who say they would switch to other parties, vote for other parties.
[01:24:21] Now, when you put 24%
[01:24:24] and 10% side by side, it points to a 35% vote
[01:24:28] potential. This also brings us to the question of
[01:24:32] whether that grey area, which would determine the fate of the election
[01:24:35] if there were an election today, is actually the undecided voters
[01:24:39] and how they will react at the ballot box. And 10% are asked
[01:24:42] which parties they would prefer to vote for.
[01:24:46] That is, among the voters who say they will no longer vote for the AK Party,
[01:24:50] 2.7% say new party,
[01:24:53] 2% say İyi Party, 1.8% say DEM Party,
[01:24:57] 1.4% say MHP, and the rate of those
[01:25:00] who say key party is 1.1%.
[01:25:03] CHP, that is, the rate of those who say "my hand will not go to the six arrows"
[01:25:06] is 0.7%. Therefore,
[01:25:09] when you sum up this table, the fact that the New Welfare Party
[01:25:12] is 0.2% is very important.
[01:25:15] That is, there seems to be no shift to the New Welfare Party
[01:25:18] within the 10% who have given up. The 2.7% here,
[01:25:22] and of course, Ertunç Özcan, let's continue with you.
[01:25:26] We always say, "Will the most decisive voter group
[01:25:30] in the next election be the undecided,
[01:25:34] and the voter group that says 'I will no longer vote for my previous party'?"
[01:25:38] Does the table say this to you again?
[01:25:41] I mean, 40% of AK Party voters
[01:25:44] are struggling to consider voting for the AK Party again,
[01:25:48] even going to different parties.
[01:25:52] 35, yes, 35 have started to consider different parties. Before,
[01:25:55] we didn't see such detachments of 10-15%
[01:25:59] from the AK Party. Maybe 1-2,
[01:26:02] depending on the candidates or the MP lists, there would be changes,
[01:26:05] but now we are talking about 35%. That is, one
[01:26:09] out of three AK Party members says, "I don't think I'll vote for the AK Party again,
[01:26:12] I'm looking for another alternative." And when you look at other surveys,
[01:26:16] actually, with the new party, there's an increase of 30% in opposition votes.
[01:26:20] That is, before, it remained at 25%, not exceeding 25%. Now we are talking about
[01:26:23] 30-38%. If I combine this with the previous survey,
[01:26:27] in the previous survey too, in that one-month period,
[01:26:31] when we talk as lawyers, what has changed in our country?
[01:26:35] Have detentions changed? I just looked
[01:26:37] at what happened legally or politically during those dates.
[01:26:41] Municipal operations continued, detentions continued.
[01:26:44] While these are happening, I think the sudden change
[01:26:48] of 6-7% is just an instantaneous reaction
[01:26:52] to a framework law. Perhaps in the September-October surveys,
[01:26:55] it will continue in this 30 and above band.
[01:26:59] Indeed, we see the same in the AK Party's votes.
[01:27:02] That is, 2.7% of the 10%
[01:27:06] can go to the new party, but 2.7%
[01:27:10] is a very important rate, isn't it? By the way, there is something
[01:27:13] I forgot to mention about the previous survey, but which I consider very important.
[01:27:17] Uh, "the AK Party taking
[01:27:20] municipalities with the methods we just talked about does not
[01:27:23] turn the ruling party into an attraction
[01:27:26] area, a center of attraction. On the contrary,
[01:27:30] it caused its votes, which were above 30%,
[01:27:34] to fall below 30%. Perhaps
[01:27:36] the undecided voters within that 24%
[01:27:39] said, 'This is too much' after the Üsküdar election.
[01:27:43] That is, even my acquaintances say, 'This is too much.'
[01:27:47] 'Arrest one, transfer one, detain one.'
[01:27:51] You are also directing the undecided voters towards the other side
[01:27:54] with your unlawful trials.
[01:27:57] Besides this, there is an economic reality, an economic reality
[01:28:01] that is getting worse and worse in this process. These people no longer believe
[01:28:05] that the AK Party is the one who will change things. They have started to decrease.
[01:28:08] 35% of AK Party members themselves have decreased in this regard.
[01:28:12] If it continues in this direction, despite this decrease,
[01:28:15] I think the graph will continue to jump up like this, but I mean."
[01:28:18] Ali Gökçek, now, this 34%, that is,
[01:28:21] when we add up the undecided, protest,
[01:28:24] and voters who switched to other parties, we get a rate of 34%.
[01:28:28] That is, now the voter says, to 100 AK Party voters,
[01:28:31] 65% say, "I will still go to my political
[01:28:35] party, and I will vote no matter what the climate is."
[01:28:38] But 35 people say, out of 100 people, 35 people say, "Wait a minute, I am
[01:28:42] undecided, I haven't made my decision yet." But when they go to the ballot box,
[01:28:46] how will they position themselves, how will they react? Will they react with a sense of party affiliation?
[01:28:49] But 10% also say, "No, my business with the AK Party is over.
[01:28:53] I will not vote for them again." And we see a 2.7% new party tendency.
[01:28:57] How will it affect it?
[01:29:00] I was just about to look on my phone,
[01:29:03] uh, what was the AK Party's vote share in 2023?
[01:29:07] What was it in 2023? Yes,
[01:29:11] what was the AK Party's percentage vote?
[01:29:15] Wait a minute. 30, 30. 33?
[01:29:18] Let's take 32.83
[01:29:21] for easy calculation. 65% of it. Let's make it
[01:29:25] 66%. I mean, like two-thirds.
[01:29:28] Two-thirds makes 22%. We are talking
[01:29:31] about the August survey. In the previous August survey,
[01:29:35] the AK Party was seen as 28%. In the previous company's August survey.
[01:29:38] That's why there can be changes between these companies
[01:29:42] and between surveys. Okay, 36, but there is something there,
[01:29:45] my dear, there are undecided voters. For example, if you consider 24
[01:29:49] 25 or close to 30 of the undecided, and you distribute one-third
[01:29:52] of the undecided equally, you have to add that
[01:29:55] too. That is, we cannot distribute it at the same rate
[01:29:59] just according to the 64 there, but this time, I don't know,
[01:30:03] but now 24 is not a small number there. If we divide that 24
[01:30:07] equally among the political parties here, how many are there?
[01:30:10] 3, 5, 7, 10. If you add two points each,
[01:30:14] it makes a distribution close to 5%. Teacher,
[01:30:18] for the new party. Now, if we come to 2.7% of the new party,
[01:30:22] this will increase much more,
[01:30:25] because we are just starting to explain what the new party
[01:30:28] wants to do in terms of economy, agriculture,
[01:30:32] health, national education, and foreign
[01:30:35] policy, what it aims to do. Our congresses
[01:30:38] are still continuing. After these congresses
[01:30:42] are settled and our establishment process is fully
[01:30:46] completed, we will explain what we want to do.
[01:30:49] Now, in the 2023 elections, I never
[01:30:52] forget, I always tell the story, I entered a coffee shop
[01:30:55] during an election visit. It was a place
[01:30:59] that served as both an association and a coffee shop where people
[01:31:02] sat. After the election, I said, "Diesel will be 20 lira."
[01:31:06] An elder said, "If you're going to lie to us,
[01:31:10] don't even start talking. It won't be 20. Come here and tell us
[01:31:14] what you will do. Don't come to us with these kinds of things, it won't be 20."
[01:31:17] Today, diesel is 96
[01:31:21] lira. That is, think that when
[01:31:25] I said diesel would be 20 lira,
[01:31:28] there was a crowd reacting like that.
[01:31:31] It became 96 lira, and right after the election,
[01:31:35] it became 20 lira. And when we arrived, seeing
[01:31:38] this and still only
[01:31:42] 10% of the AK Party voters going to other parties,
[01:31:45] I think it's a good result for the AK Party.
[01:31:49] I don't think they can manage
[01:31:52] it until the election.
[01:31:54] Furthermore,
[01:31:56] we can distribute the undecided to a certain extent,
[01:32:00] but there is no reason for the undecided
[01:32:04] to lean towards voting for the AK Party again.
[01:32:07] Oh, wait a minute, let me note this down. Uh, now, under normal circumstances,
[01:32:11] we conduct a survey, and after asking about each party,
[01:32:15] undecided voters emerge. We distribute these undecided voters
[01:32:18] to a certain extent. But we are only asking people
[01:32:21] who are undecided about voting for the AK Party, among those who voted for the AK Party.
[01:32:24] So there is no reason for them to lean towards voting for the AK Party
[01:32:28] again. There is this:
[01:32:32] if you don't offer an alternative,
[01:32:35] people might lean towards the AK Party again.
[01:32:39] And here, we see the effect of the new party being new, of not having been able
[01:32:42] to fully explain itself to society. As time goes on,
[01:32:46] there will be shifts from that 24% to 10%,
[01:32:49] and those shifts to 10% will be for the new party.
[01:32:53] Mr. Metat, please. So,
[01:32:56] there is something called voter behavior, which is a separate discipline.
[01:33:00] People take their associate professorship exams on voter behavior.
[01:33:04] So this is one of the important things in political sociology.
[01:33:06] Now, voter behavior... If we are being rude by speaking so grandly,
[01:33:10] our professors should excuse us. No, not at all. Now,
[01:33:13] for example, distributing the 24 undecided voters and saying they won't go there
[01:33:17] is contrary to statistics. That is,
[01:33:20] if the voters don't find a very strong alternative, they will say,
[01:33:24] "I won't give up." Just like
[01:33:27] two-thirds of those who vote for the Justice and Development Party
[01:33:30] despite diesel being 96 lira.
[01:33:35] They say, "I'd rather die than give up." Now, if we can't
[01:33:39] solve this, we will have talked in vain.
[01:33:42] We need to solve this. Where does it come from? It means we are not
[01:33:46] explaining something well. "I always dwell on that. We are not explaining something well.
[01:33:49] That is, even though I teach the whole lesson, if the class average is 32, 38,
[01:33:53] I don't blame the student, I blame myself.
[01:33:56] It means I'm not explaining well, I'm doing something wrong, or I'm explaining
[01:34:00] it incompletely. But, teacher, let's not forget
[01:34:03] the existence of a significant segment that owes its life
[01:34:07] and living standards to the Justice and Development Party being in power.
[01:34:10] And also the expenses
[01:34:13] to be made during the election period."
[01:34:15] Of course.
[01:34:19] The opposition. 4,863,000
[01:34:22] families receive aid, etc. 4,860,000 families.
[01:34:25] When you look at it per person, 17,785,000
[01:34:29] people directly receive aid, money, coal, pasta, bags, whatever.
[01:34:33] Turkey has 20 million, and there are already 50-55 million voters. You are entering the election
[01:34:37] with 23% or so. Now, for example,
[01:34:40] we discuss this on television, don't we? In the media.
[01:34:43] Okay, not all media is on the side of the opposition,
[01:34:47] but opposition channels gather a stronger audience
[01:34:50] than other channels, just like we are gathering tonight. And
[01:34:54] the İyi Party, for example, doesn't use media at all. And it's the same with the new party.
[01:34:58] That is, 2.7% of the 10% who say they won't vote for the Justice and Development Party
[01:35:02] have come to the new party, and two to the İyi Party. This is essentially
[01:35:05] a thing.
[01:35:08] I mean, its distribution
[01:35:11] should be around 4.8%, I think.
[01:35:15] The new party should be around 4.8%, and the others should be distributed among themselves,
[01:35:18] 1.2, 0.8, and so on. Now, I don't understand
[01:35:22] the fact that 65% of the segment remains
[01:35:26] in the same place. Doesn't saying "I'd rather die than leave"
[01:35:29] signify a change in government? It's not enough.
[01:35:32] Now, most of it is already done by phone.
[01:35:36] There is also this parameter: it is done by phone. By phone,
[01:35:39] statesmen, now I can say AK Party if they don't give news about justice and development.
[01:35:42] They can say it, because most of these
[01:35:45] are done by phone. We also take this into account,
[01:35:49] but here, I mean, people wait with hope for another five years,
[01:35:53] they wait for another five years, and so on. We no longer have the patience to wait.
[01:35:57] All of us, we live in this country.
[01:36:00] I am also trying to make a living in this country. I also want to look to the future with hope.
[01:36:04] I also want every student I teach to stay in this country without leaving.
[01:36:07] So we need to get out of this without making a mistake.
[01:36:11] Look... For this reason,
[01:36:15] I say, for example, don't get stuck on this framework law.
[01:36:18] You need to have something to say in foreign policy, and they say they will say it.
[01:36:22] It's a good thing. You need to have something to say in economy.
[01:36:26] And just saying it is not enough. You won't just say, "I will give every pensioner
[01:36:29] at least the minimum wage." You will say where you will find the source for all of this.
[01:36:33] You will say it like a pill. You will go door to door
[01:36:36] and explain it. For example, if a general chairman
[01:36:39] is to be elected by members at the general congress, you will show everyone
[01:36:42] as an example how internal party democracy is being expanded.
[01:36:46] Everyone will take you as an example. If it can achieve all this quickly,
[01:36:50] it still has a great chance, I think. But if
[01:36:53] it's seen to be in such a state of inertia, if there are internal party conflicts
[01:36:57] and nothing is done, it won't work. And also,
[01:37:00] politics is about power. Power,
[01:37:04] as they say, power politics. Why am I saying this?
[01:37:08] Now, for example, 26 municipalities have been taken illegally.
[01:37:12] Of course, we are talking about them constantly. For example, 16 of your
[01:37:15] 26 municipalities have been taken. For example, Üsküdar. Now, for example,
[01:37:19] if I were the general chairman, I would silently
[01:37:22] protest with 500,000 people, without breaking anything,
[01:37:25] without shouting, without hurting anyone.
[01:37:28] I would say, "Don't leave the Üsküdar municipality for three days.
[01:37:32] Then sit on the sidewalks and don't leave from there."
[01:37:35] This means there needs to be a more effective protest.
[01:37:39] Something is being discussed there, 5000 people for 3 days,
[01:37:42] and then they disperse. Another operation
[01:37:45] in another district, discussed in another district.
[01:37:49] But 1, 2, 8, 11, 14, 16 have gone now. The voter
[01:37:53] also sees this. And the voter is tired, teacher. Mr. Özel
[01:37:56] may not be aware of this. Can he be aware? I mean,
[01:38:00] the voter is also told to go and wait there for three days, go and wait at Saraçhane, then go to
[01:38:04] Istanbul University, then go get a diploma.
[01:38:07] The citizen is tired, I mean. You're right, but for example,
[01:38:11] there were over 100 rallies. They filled all the rallies.
[01:38:14] That's right. The voter participates.
[01:38:17] I'm saying all this so that this opposition wave
[01:38:21] can be better united and grow within the framework
[01:38:24] of law. I understand. Now, one of the most talked-about
[01:38:27] names of recent days is the Mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality, Mansur
[01:38:31] Yavaş. After he visited Mr. President at Beştepe
[01:38:35] last week, especially the issue of him
[01:38:38] being able to switch to the AK Party at any moment started to be discussed.
[01:38:41] Even one of the important figures of the MHP, Mr. Abdülkadir
[01:39:15] says that a lot is being talked about Mansur Yavaş
[01:39:19] in Ankara's political circles. He is said to have said,
[01:39:22] "I don't want to go to prison at this age," and he explains this as follows:
[01:39:24] "Until the official application
[01:39:27] period for the presidency begins, I will not put my head forward.
[01:39:31] When the candidacy application begins, no one can arrest
[01:39:34] me. At that time, society will say he was arrested because he was a presidential candidate."
[01:39:38] He is reported to have said this. "I will not be the candidate of only the CHP and the new party,
[01:39:42] I will be the common candidate of the opposition.
[01:39:45] I will be the common candidate of the CHP, the new party, the İyi Party, and the Zafer Party,"
[01:39:49] he is reported to have said.
[01:39:53] information shared by Ali Gökçek. Did he actually
[01:39:56] say something while saying nothing here?
[01:40:00] I mean, if I become a presidential candidate,
[01:40:03] I will be arrested. I think the issue should
[01:40:07] now move beyond Mr. Mansur. I mean,
[01:40:10] isn't there a bigger problem in this article?
[01:40:14] That's why I took it. Why does Mr. Mansur
[01:40:17] associate not wanting to go to prison
[01:40:19] with running for president or being prominent in politics?
[01:40:23] This is being discussed in Ankara's political circles.
[01:40:25] Mr. Abdülkadir also takes this to his column.
[01:40:29] I mean, when you become a presidential candidate,
[01:40:32] excuse me, let me ask my question. Does it mean you get arrested
[01:40:36] when you become a presidential candidate? That's why he might be summoned
[01:40:39] to give a statement or even arrested for writing this article.
[01:40:43] Many, uh, in quotation marks. I am telling you, there are real
[01:40:47] opposition journalists who, when they write this, when they express
[01:40:50] this, they are openly spreading misleading information
[01:40:54] and will be arrested and imprisoned. There are journalists who will be arrested and imprisoned. What
[01:40:57] does this mean? Are we now going to associate
[01:41:01] people's path to the presidency
[01:41:03] or a more effective
[01:41:07] politics, a more prominent politics, with whether
[01:41:10] they go to prison or not? Will we manage that process accordingly? What does this mean? If we are
[01:41:14] talking about this in Turkey, there is nothing else to say.
[01:41:17] So, Mr. Mansur has made
[01:41:20] such a decision. According to Mr. Abdülkadir, Mansur
[01:41:23] Yavaş's statement – I'm not talking about his statement –
[01:41:27] "I don't want to go to prison, so I will announce my presidential candidacy
[01:41:31] later." In that sense, for example, Mr. Mansur, yes,
[01:41:34] the Mansur Yavaş I know would want to be the joint
[01:41:38] candidate of the CHP, the New Party, the Good Party, and the Victory Party, that's right,
[01:41:42] yes, but Mansur Yavaş would also want to be the candidate
[01:41:45] of AK Party voters, if you ask him.
[01:41:48] He would also want to be the candidate of MHP voters. Let's not look
[01:41:52] at it as parties but as party members,
[01:41:55] people who feel like MHP members. The general
[01:41:57] leaders of the parties
[01:42:05] would not want to be candidates, wouldn't every politician
[01:42:09] already be like that? If I were to embark on the path of presidential candidacy,
[01:42:12] I would also want to be the candidate of all
[01:42:15] thing, but
[01:42:19] what does "I don't want to go to prison" mean? Mr. Mansur
[01:42:23] would not say that. If he were to embark on such a path, he would already
[01:42:27] risk it. But why should someone who wants
[01:42:30] to be a presidential candidate in Turkey risk going to prison? Why are we
[01:42:34] not asking this question? The main question here is that Mr. Abdülkadir
[01:42:37] makes us ask this question with his article.
[01:42:40] He says, "I won't stick my neck out now.
[01:42:43] I will define my politics as serving the Ankara
[01:42:47] Metropolitan Municipality. And for the roadmap,
[01:42:50] don't believe anything you don't hear from me."
[01:42:53] I will develop this discourse. Very good. I will be arrested if
[01:42:56] I become a candidate. "Doesn't it imply
[01:43:00] that, as Mr. Selvin said, a presidential candidate in this country
[01:43:04] will then be arrested? Is that what
[01:43:06] we should understand from this? He himself
[01:43:10] makes this comment by referring to people,
[01:43:13] saying that "this is what is being talked about in Ankara." He makes such an assessment.
[01:43:17] And I agree with Mr. Gökçe,
[01:43:20] that if someone becomes a presidential candidate,
[01:43:23] they will definitely go to prison." To normalize the discourse
[01:43:28] "Yes, actually no pen that shapes public
[01:43:31] opinion constitutes a duty.
[01:43:34] That is, as he said, if
[01:43:38] we, names known as opposition,
[01:43:40] had written such a thing,
[01:43:44] presumably an investigation would be launched
[01:43:47] against us immediately and for openly spreading
[01:43:51] false information
[01:43:54] what is necessary would be done, yes."
[01:43:57] "As I said, I was in Ankara last Sunday,
[01:44:01] two Sundays ago. I went to Ankara
[01:44:04] for the first time in 1970. Believe me, of course, in this
[01:44:08] I admit that the preparations for the NATO summit will also
[01:44:12] play a role, but I admired
[01:44:15] the city of Ankara. Mr. Mansur has done
[01:44:18] a very successful municipal work.
[01:44:22] To such a successful mayor, not
[01:44:24] only new party members, not only CHP members,
[01:44:28] but also those who voted for the ruling
[01:44:32] party, Good Party members and members of other parties
[01:44:37] for him. Moreover, Mr. Mansur
[01:44:40] is not a person who has ever expressed
[01:44:43] himself as a fanatical partisan in his discourse.
[01:44:47] Since he became the mayor, the metropolitan mayor,
[01:44:51] he has always made embracing
[01:44:54] speeches, yes, he makes statements
[01:44:57] for all Ankara residents. When we look at Mr. Mansur,
[01:45:00] we should look at him like this. That is, when you spread
[01:45:04] Mr. Mansur's success from the Ankara scale
[01:45:08] to the whole country, it turns out
[01:45:11] that he is a very important name. Mr. Mansur
[01:45:14] is a very successful mayor.
[01:45:17] I don't think
[01:45:19] Mr. Mansur
[01:45:22] would be in such fears as Abdülkadir Selvi
[01:45:25] said. In fact,
[01:45:29] in the polls, he receives 5-6% of votes
[01:45:32] from the Justice and Development Party. When he becomes a presidential candidate,
[01:45:36] I admire the Justice and Development Party in Ankara. Of course,
[01:45:40] but if your words were cut off and you want
[01:45:44] to continue, the problematic thing here is that this article
[01:45:47] is being written, that something like "a presidential
[01:45:50] candidate in this country goes to prison" is being talked about. Look,
[01:45:54] what did Ms. Özzem say? She said, "I can't spend my life
[01:45:57] in 12 square meters." After that, she joined the AKP.
[01:46:01] What did they say to our Bayrampaşa mayor? Two days ago,
[01:46:04] they called him, one day ago, they called him again and said, "Rasan Mutdıye,
[01:46:08] I love you, brother, there's an operation against you,
[01:46:12] come join our party, don't be like this." They called him. He said, "I won't
[01:46:15] budge." Today, they are prosecuting Hasan
[01:46:19] Mutlu for 7800 years. All this will happen. In the municipalities
[01:46:22] that joined the AKP last year, there are no operations.
[01:46:25] Those who didn't join will be prosecuted for 700 to 800
[01:46:28] years. Someone will join the AKP
[01:46:32] because they said, "I can't stay in 12 square meters."
[01:46:35] On the day our presidential candidate is determined in our primary election,
[01:46:39] but what kind of primary election? Our presidential
[01:46:42] candidate, determined in a primary election where 15.5 million
[01:46:46] people voted, will be arrested that day. His
[01:46:49] image, his voice, his social media
[01:46:52] accounts will all be banned. His defense will be banned.
[01:46:55] The book he wrote to make his defense heard
[01:46:58] will be banned. It won't be enough. He couldn't make his defense
[01:47:02] there. The tea he drank
[01:47:05] while waiting for the hearing
[01:47:08] at the courthouse to ask a question will be banned. The league match
[01:47:12] he watched will be banned. Yes, these will happen. And then
[01:47:15] someone who is considering presidential candidacy
[01:47:19] will have to risk prison, of course, that's the kind of article
[01:47:23] that comes out here, this understanding emerges. To say
[01:47:26] that this is being talked about as "I don't want to go to prison"
[01:47:29] means that if you are thinking of becoming a presidential candidate,
[01:47:33] you will have to risk prison. The mere writing of this
[01:47:37] is an atrocity on behalf of the Republic of Turkey, but it is a reality.
[01:47:40] It is a reality, unfortunately, with the examples we have seen
[01:47:44] and experienced in Turkish politics. Can we give the thing to Professor Mümtaz again,
[01:47:48] Mr. Abdülkadir's article? Please. Let's give it to him, director,
[01:47:52] can I request the article again? Look, we have summarized it, he says
[01:47:55] that a lot is being talked about in the Ankara lobby,
[01:47:59] that is, he doesn't want to go to prison
[01:48:02] at this age. We don't know if it's true or not. If
[01:48:06] it's true, then it means suicide for Mansur Yavaş. If it's true,
[01:48:09] it means political suicide. But if it's not true,
[01:48:13] and I don't think it is, if it's not true, it's not
[01:48:16] subliminal, Mr. Selvi is giving an open message.
[01:48:19] That is, if you don't pledge allegiance, you will go to prison.
[01:48:23] Can something like this happen? In fact, this is what is desired.
[01:48:26] For example, if we ask those listening to us now, is there
[01:48:30] a similarity between Mansur Yavaş's
[01:48:33] article by Abdülkadir Selvi and the re-election
[01:48:37] for the Adalar Municipality? If you ask, what kind
[01:48:40] of common ground emerges? To make people think twice
[01:48:44] about even becoming a candidate, to make them reconsider
[01:48:47] the idea of becoming a candidate, that is, to make the opposition
[01:48:51] unable to find a candidate, to leave them without candidates.
[01:48:54] Now, I don't think Mansur Yavaş would say such a thing,
[01:48:58] because that would be political suicide. But here it clearly
[01:49:01] says that you will pledge allegiance and do what they tell you. Now,
[01:49:05] this can actually be discussed further. It's such a conjuncture
[01:49:09] that the Üsküdar municipality. Events are happening,
[01:49:12] arrests are still continuing in many district municipalities.
[01:49:15] Within this whole conjuncture, moreover, on the 9th
[01:49:19] of September, the anniversary of the Republican People's Party's establishment,
[01:49:22] why? I mean, it's not that Mansur Yavaş requested an appointment,
[01:49:26] why did the President immediately say "come" and give him an appointment?
[01:49:29] This should actually be looked into. Okay, let's talk and complete the second hour. I am asking
[01:49:32] for another half an hour from Uğur Dündar,
[01:49:36] as you were supposed to leave at 22:00, but we will discuss an important topic shortly: which public
[01:49:40] institutions and organizations
[01:49:43] are giving advertisements to television channels,
[01:49:45] according to whom and what? The New Party's Şanlıurfa
[01:49:49] Deputy Mahmut Tanal asked, and Şimşek did not answer.
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[02:00:25] We are starting our new hour with our new guests.
[02:00:28] As of this hour, we are saying hello to
[02:00:31] Halktv.com General Broadcast Manager, my dear friend
[02:00:35] Bengüşap Babaeker, and journalist Şükrü Küçükşahin. Dear Bengi
[02:00:38] Babaeker, welcome. Welcome. And Şükrü
[02:00:42] Küçükşahin, I would like to welcome
[02:00:45] you too. Your voice is not coming through. If you open your microphone,
[02:00:48] that would be great. Now, as of this hour, we have an issue to discuss,
[02:00:51] and we would like to hear the opinions
[02:00:54] of dear Bengü and our other colleagues on the matter.
[02:00:57] Now, the advertising budgets transferred
[02:01:01] to television channels by institutions
[02:01:04] and companies operating with public resources have now become a parliamentary issue.
[02:01:08] The New Party's Şanlıurfa Deputy Mahmut Tanal asked
[02:01:12] Mehmet Şimşek in his parliamentary question, "Which public
[02:01:15] institutions and organizations' advertisements
[02:01:18] are you distributing to which television channels,
[02:01:22] according to what criteria, and to whom?" Mehmet Şimşek's
[02:01:25] answer came as an interesting response. May I request
[02:01:29] his answer, my dear director Murat Erdoğan. The question is: What is the annual
[02:01:33] distribution of advertising and promotional
[02:01:37] budgets transferred to television
[02:01:40] channels by Turkish Airlines, Ziraat Bank, Halk Bank,
[02:01:43] Vakıfbank, Botaş, and other companies
[02:01:47] with majority public capital, per institution and channel?
[02:01:50] "Which objective criteria are taken as a basis
[02:01:54] when determining advertising and promotional
[02:01:57] budgets? For example, are ratings, reach, target
[02:02:01] audience, cost, effectiveness analysis, and independent media
[02:02:05] planning reports taken into account?" he asks.
[02:02:08] Mehmet Şimşek shares the joint answer of the three banks,
[02:02:11] stating that the requested detailed information
[02:02:15] beyond the data in the publicly
[02:02:18] disclosed financial statements, audit
[02:02:21] reports, and activity reports of the mentioned
[02:02:25] banks is considered a bank and customer
[02:02:28] secret under articles 73 and 159 of the Banking Law,
[02:02:31] and therefore cannot be shared. Now, I didn't understand
[02:02:35] this, dear Bengişap Babaeker. Mahmut Tanal is not asking
[02:02:39] who has how much money in these banks. He is saying, "Which channels
[02:02:43] do these bank advertisements go to, and according to what?" What's wrong with sharing this? Nothing.
[02:02:47] Now, he bases it on two articles of the banking law, and we looked
[02:02:50] at both of them. It has nothing to do with it, because no one is asking
[02:02:53] how much money anyone has, what they did,
[02:02:56] what their profit or loss is. The expenditure
[02:03:00] item that should be the most transparent is what we are asking about.
[02:03:03] Now, there is a product. You want to sell it more,
[02:03:07] reach more people, and earn more money, right? What will you do
[02:03:11] for this? You will advertise yourself in the media
[02:03:14] that will reach the widest
[02:03:17] audience. We would think that these institutions
[02:03:20] are doing the same. Where should they place their
[02:03:23] advertisements to reach more people, earn more,
[02:03:27] and reach more customers? On the most watched channel.
[02:03:31] Now, if we are talking about news channels, Halk
[02:03:34] TV is the most watched news channel in Turkey.
[02:03:38] There is only one rating agency. According
[02:03:41] to its calculations, Halk TV is always first. Halk TV has not
[02:03:45] received any advertisements
[02:03:48] from public institutions for 5 or 6 years. So then,
[02:03:51] according to what criteria are you giving them? Mahmut Tanal
[02:03:54] also asked this. "Objective criteria," he says. There are no
[02:03:57] objective criteria, because they are not giving their
[02:04:01] advertisements to the most watched channels,
[02:04:04] the ones that will reach the widest customer base,
[02:04:07] or to newspapers. To whom are they giving them? To channels
[02:04:11] that broadcast daily and make propaganda for the government.
[02:04:14] That is, public resources
[02:04:17] are only transferred to one group. What is the income
[02:04:21] from these advertisements? This is not an advertisement, this is a transfer
[02:04:25] of resources, because the income of the banks comes from
[02:04:29] our taxes. You also pay that tax, Mr. Uğur also pays it,
[02:04:32] I also pay it, millions of people watching Halk TV
[02:04:36] also pay it. There is a pool of money formed
[02:04:39] from everyone's taxes, accumulated in public institutions,
[02:04:43] and they are transferred to pro-government media,
[02:04:46] to the so-called government media channels. Of course, resources
[02:04:50] are being transferred, clearly, and other independent
[02:04:54] broadcasters like Halk TV,
[02:04:57] independent media, are being punished.
[02:05:00] They are being put into an economic squeeze,
[02:05:04] you are being deprived of these resources,
[02:05:06] that is, these resources are not distributed
[02:05:10] equally. We don't even want equality, we want
[02:05:13] it to be fair. Look at the ratings, if we don't have ratings,
[02:05:17] if we don't have viewers, then don't give them.
[02:05:20] So, the criterion here is not ratings, we understood
[02:05:23] that. The criterion here is actually broadcasting
[02:05:26] under the guidance of the government. There is also an interesting
[02:05:30] point in the answer, which Mr. Dündar must have
[02:05:33] noticed. Three banks are mentioned. He says, Ziraat
[02:05:36] Bank, Halk Bank, Vakıfbank. Mr. Dündar,
[02:05:40] Mr. Şimşek is making a joint statement on their behalf.
[02:05:43] But he doesn't mention Turkish Airlines and Botaş
[02:05:47] at all. Mr. Şimşek obviously didn't fully understand
[02:05:51] the bank accounts. No one is asking about the deposits there.
[02:05:54] But there is no answer for THY and Botaş in this
[02:05:58] answer. Why do you think not? I agree
[02:06:02] with Ms. Bengü's explanation.
[02:06:04] I will add one more point. Halk
[02:06:08] TV is first in terms of
[02:06:11] ratings among news channels. But perhaps
[02:06:14] they could say, "Brother, you may
[02:06:17] be watched a lot, but for us,
[02:06:20] a viewer with high purchasing power is important.
[02:06:24] We take this as a basis." If they say that,
[02:06:27] then Halk Television is watched
[02:06:31] by all voter segments, by all
[02:06:35] citizen segments, especially by citizens
[02:06:39] with high purchasing power, in the same way.
[02:06:42] In all categories, Halk TV is always
[02:06:45] first. Therefore, I agree
[02:06:48] with Ms. Bengü again. Pro-government
[02:06:52] media is subsidized with public
[02:06:55] resources. Yes, in all democracies
[02:06:59] in the world, especially. "Newspapers supporting
[02:07:02] the government do not sell well. Opposition
[02:07:06] newspapers gain respect
[02:07:09] and are in demand, because journalism's
[02:07:12] nature is to oppose. Everything is fine and dandy
[02:07:16] when everything is running smoothly, but that's not
[02:07:19] news. Anything that is not working,
[02:07:23] out of order, and needs to be corrected is news.
[02:07:27] And the journalist reflects these for the public's
[02:07:31] right to know the truth. Thus,
[02:07:34] by transferring public resources
[02:07:37] to pro-government media,
[02:07:40] Halk TV, which actually has real ratings
[02:07:43] and always maintains its first
[02:07:47] place in all categories,
[02:07:50] is being punished. Therefore, Halk TV viewers
[02:07:53] are also being punished. We cannot
[02:07:56] accept this. I absolutely
[02:08:00] disagree with Mr. Şimşek's
[02:08:03] assessment. Public resources are also,
[02:08:06] as Ms. Bengü said, your money and my money. But he says
[02:08:10] public resources are a secret. Editorial decisions may support
[02:08:14] the government, but this is a choice
[02:08:17] and a patronage choice. The boss
[02:08:20] covers it from his own pocket, subsidizes it.
[02:08:23] But when it comes to the distribution
[02:08:26] of public resources, it is the primary
[02:08:29] duty of those who use these resources to be fair.
[02:08:32] Ms. Bengü, please. It is not transparent, it is not auditable,
[02:08:36] this is clear. I understand from this answer that these institutions
[02:08:40] are giving advertisements according to what criteria,
[02:08:43] we cannot ask this, if you ask, you don't get an answer.
[02:08:47] For example, in fires, it's asked, opposition
[02:08:49] MPs submit a motion, how many fire planes do we have,
[02:08:53] as needed, how many planes does the presidency have,
[02:08:56] enough. This is also something like that, Olkan. Only
[02:09:00] the advertising expenditure for the first 3 months of this year for only two public
[02:09:03] banks in the first 3 months of advertising expenditure, Mr. Uğur, is
[02:09:07] 1 billion 65 million liras. 1 billion 65 million
[02:09:10] liras. There is no 1 lira coming to Halk TV
[02:09:13] for advertising and promotion expenditures. Where did it go? It went
[02:09:16] to televisions that are never watched, to newspapers that are never
[02:09:20] read. They are never read,
[02:09:22] they are not watched, but all resources are transferred there.
[02:09:26] What are 73 and 159? What does ErtunçÖzen say here?
[02:09:30] Bank and customer secret. We are not asking for customer secrets, so
[02:09:33] could Mr. Şimşek have misunderstood this? So, to deflect
[02:09:36] the issue is actually related to legal articles that are not related to the content
[02:09:40] of the issue. We are talking about an article related to confidentiality and trade secrets, but
[02:09:44] the event in question here is different. It is not
[02:09:47] a question that falls within the scope of personal data protection, Mr. Tanal. That is,
[02:09:51] to disclose which channel a customer's portfolio
[02:09:54] advertises on for how many minutes is not a trade secret
[02:09:58] in any way related to banking.
[02:10:21] how many big advertisements public institutions gave in that campaign and
[02:10:25] where did they give them? Did you see a one-second advertisement on Halk TV?
[02:10:28] In the transition to 5G, there was a terrible transfer of resources
[02:10:32] and all institutions organized a very big campaign again.
[02:10:36] Even in that campaign alone, it's visible
[02:10:39] where these advertisements are going.
[02:10:42] Did you get it, but is there anything you'd like to add? Let's
[02:10:46] say that the first uh question wasn't
[02:10:49] answered. Regarding which television
[02:10:53] channels the funds were transferred to, they say it's a trade secret. There's another question that says
[02:10:57] what criteria is this based on? Why
[02:10:59] is this a trade secret? I don't understand this. For example, Mehmet
[02:11:03] Şimşek could have answered: "How much
[02:11:05] was transferred to which television channel is a trade secret,
[02:11:09] however, when we determine these
[02:11:12] channels, we base it on these criteria." This is not
[02:11:15] a trade secret, but the reason he cannot answer
[02:11:18] is that there is no, how can I say,
[02:11:21] impartial criterion according to which
[02:11:24] a television news channel that comes first in ratings in every
[02:11:28] measurement, receives not even
[02:11:31] 1 lira of advertising. There is no
[02:11:34] such criterion, that is, there is no such criterion. Since
[02:11:38] there is no such criterion, it's a trade secret, as with all our questions.
[02:11:41] They hide it, but these
[02:11:45] are not anyone's father's companies. There cannot be such a trade secret.
[02:11:49] We are talking about public banks. Also, there's this:
[02:11:53] without meeting with all channels and getting advertising
[02:11:56] prices from them, how will you create a competitive environment
[02:12:00] and give advertisements cheaply? Well, don't.
[02:12:03] If you don't do this, then isn't there a public loss here?
[02:12:06] So, if this is a public bank, then if
[02:12:09] these banks are all ours, you are actually
[02:12:13] creating a public loss here by not creating it. Maybe you will give
[02:12:17] a one-minute advertisement for 100 liras there, but here you will reach
[02:12:20] more people for 90 liras, maybe more people for 50 liras.
[02:12:23] They hide behind this being a trade secret,
[02:12:27] uh but
[02:12:29] as in everything, we all know, as you said,
[02:12:33] they use public resources to feed
[02:12:37] their pro-government channels. Public banks and public institutions
[02:12:40] are the best example for this, because
[02:12:42] as you asked, it's a trade secret. It's over. 73.
[02:12:46] Also, private banks, let's say
[02:12:48] private banks were defrauded by businessman X
[02:12:52] This
[02:12:55] is not, in my opinion, a newsworthy
[02:12:58] event. It is
[02:13:02] an indication of a legal process that needs to happen
[02:13:05] between two people or the bank
[02:13:08] and that fraudster. It is a matter that needs to be
[02:13:11] resolved in court. But when it comes to
[02:13:15] siphoning off the resources of public banks or
[02:13:18] evaluating and distributing their resources,
[02:13:22] this concerns us a lot,
[02:13:25] because public resources consist of money that belongs
[02:13:29] to the orphans whose hair has not yet grown.
[02:13:32] That is, it is the money of the entire nation.
[02:13:35] Therefore, to give the nation's money fairly
[02:13:39] to those who deserve it is superior management.
[02:14:00] Why did Turkish Airlines give advertisements to
[02:14:04] which channel and based on what? Come on, the banks are very
[02:14:07] much from the beginning, but Cinematographer, from the very beginning, but
[02:14:10] it's not like that. They gave him a file, you know, as Ali Bey also knows,
[02:14:14] in recent years in the parliament, the fate of all parliamentary questions is this.
[02:14:18] Most of them are not answered at all. Those that are answered are passed off as secrets,
[02:14:22] half answered, one-fourth answered,
[02:14:25] and that also wrongly. Well, thank you very much.
[02:14:28] General Manager of halktv.com, dear Bengi Şap Babayaker,
[02:14:31] for your contribution. While you're here, I can say a thing or two
[02:14:35] if you have 2-3 more minutes, that is,
[02:14:39] in essence, I mean,
[02:14:46] sit down
[02:14:49] in the evening, I zap through the channels and watch. For example, most have opened YouTube.
[02:14:52] For example, any channel, like, 5-6
[02:14:56] people are sitting there, discussing a political matter, and 56 people are watching.
[02:14:59] You know, if he told his wife, children, and neighbors, it would be 150-200 people.
[02:15:03] 56 people are watching, then it goes to commercials, and
[02:15:07] the 10-minute commercial never ends. Now,
[02:15:11] if you're looking for criteria. For example, what comes to my mind is this:
[02:15:13] The state provides treasury aid to political
[02:15:16] parties, doesn't it? There's a condition for that. Okay, good, well done, there's a good condition,
[02:15:20] you must have received at least 3% of the votes, uh. And you must have been established
[02:15:23] some time ago, and so on. Now, if you consider getting 3% of the votes
[02:15:27] as a reward, then here, take the viewership rates,
[02:15:31] calculate the monthly average, across all groups and categories,
[02:15:34] A, B, AB, whatever. Distribute it equally based on that.
[02:15:38] It's that simple, Professor. Professor, if these public
[02:15:42] banks or public institutions had given
[02:15:45] advertisements to Halk Television, Mr. Mehmet
[02:15:49] Şimşek would have proudly answered this
[02:15:52] question. He would have explained
[02:15:55] it, of course, because the
[02:15:58] fact that these advertisements were distributed fairly
[02:16:01] would have emerged. As I said,
[02:16:04] Halk Television is watched a lot, and it is watched
[02:16:07] by viewers in every category, from segments with high purchasing
[02:16:10] power to all layers of society.
[02:16:14] When you look at it objectively, when you evaluate it from an
[02:16:18] outside perspective, it naturally
[02:16:21] emerges that Halk Television is the institution
[02:16:25] that should receive the most public advertising among news channels.
[02:16:28] There are huge public banks. Let's not name them one by one. Here,
[02:16:31] they offer salary promotions and try to tie pensioners to themselves.
[02:16:35] Normal citizens deposit money, businessmen deposit money. A businessman
[02:16:38] who pays his taxes has deposited his money in that public bank. A normal pensioner
[02:16:42] goes and gets his salary. But if these people
[02:16:45] are watching an opposition channel, Halk TV, then why
[02:16:49] would the bank, where Halk TV has been working
[02:16:52] and showing loyalty for years, not advertise?
[02:16:56] Quite naturally, for example, I receive my pension
[02:16:59] from a public bank, but that public bank does not
[02:17:03] advertise on Halk Television. If this is not
[02:17:06] injustice, what is? Also, Mr. Uğur, those who make this decision
[02:17:10] are public employees, that is, they will be responsible for even 1 lira
[02:17:13] of public money. You must state which criteria you used
[02:17:17] to make payments. As you mentioned earlier, you give
[02:17:20] millions of liras in advertising money to
[02:17:23] a channel watched by 56 people...
[02:17:34] The money you gave is public money, so there would be a severe punishment and prosecution
[02:17:37] for this. So, we should talk about these things considering
[02:17:41] that we went all the way to Switzerland and uncovered the bribery account
[02:17:44] of Emlak Bank General Manager Engin Civan, and we
[02:17:48] headlined it as "the document of bribery," because, as I said,
[02:17:52] he was the general manager of a public bank
[02:17:55] that held the rights of orphans whose hair had not yet grown,
[02:17:59] and he was responsible for siphoning off the public
[02:18:02] bank.
[02:18:05] Well, thank you very much, Bengü Şap. Thank you for your contributions.
[02:18:09] We will say goodbye to you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Şükrü Küçükşahin.
[02:18:12] Is there anything you would like to add to this
[02:18:16] matter? Of course,
[02:18:18] that is, as Uğur Abi also stated,
[02:18:22] look, in the past,
[02:18:24] even when many important news stories that were perceived
[02:18:28] as being against these banks or any institution or political
[02:18:31] institution were made, such an advertising
[02:18:35] share, that is, a reduction in advertisements
[02:18:39] from public institutions to broadcasting organizations
[02:18:42] could not have been the case, because
[02:18:45] this would have gathered a very big reaction.
[02:18:48] Also, it is considered
[02:18:51] a fundamental principle of journalism. These news stories that are made.
[02:18:55] Today, if you are making
[02:18:59] journalism, if you are doing propaganda for
[02:19:02] the government's understanding, then you deserve
[02:19:05] public advertisements, especially advertisements from public
[02:19:08] institutions. But if
[02:19:12] you are not acting in the understanding of Her Majesty's
[02:19:15] in Rize, his hometown, you do not have
[02:19:18] the right to receive advertisements. This actually means
[02:19:21] the elimination of the public's right to information. This actually means
[02:19:25] the elimination of journalism. It means the elimination
[02:19:28] of journalistic ethical principles. In this way, you
[02:19:31] direct journalists to a single type of
[02:19:35] understanding, and we have actually experienced
[02:19:38] many examples of this. We unfortunately see with sadness
[02:19:41] that all broadcasting organizations that receive advertisements
[02:19:45] use the same headlines and see the same news.
[02:19:48] Uh, and unfortunately, the government, especially the AK
[02:19:51] Party government, in previous periods... "We weren't seeing such examples.
[02:19:55] The media has also gone the way of
[02:19:57] being brought under control by
[02:20:01] unevenly benefiting
[02:20:04] from the advertising pie. This is both
[02:20:07] an unfair practice and a practice that destroys
[02:20:11] journalistic principles. But most
[02:20:15] importantly, as I said, it is a situation that prevents
[02:20:18] the public's right to information. So, Mehmet
[02:20:22] Şimşek's answer is
[02:20:26] a very sad answer, to be honest.
[02:20:29] We cannot see those expected
[02:20:32] rational outputs from Mehmet Şimşek,
[02:20:35] Ms. Sinem. He could have even
[02:20:39] said that there is war
[02:20:43] around us, there are crises, and because
[02:20:46] of these crises, opposition channels should also
[02:20:49] give us money because they cannot see
[02:20:52] how much we are fighting this crisis.
[02:20:55] He could have thought that, but of course
[02:20:58] I'm joking, it's a bad joke, I admit, but
[02:21:02] unfortunately, at the point we have reached, this is the situation.
[02:21:05] Today, you discussed the first part of the media,
[02:21:09] you talked about it. Because of that,
[02:21:12] if you understand media or
[02:21:15] column writing, and you become
[02:21:18] a presidential candidate in this country,
[02:21:22] you should be afraid of prison, you should experience
[02:21:25] the feeling of imprisonment. If one of those who give
[02:21:28] you this feeling is the media, if it is given
[02:21:32] through the media, then
[02:21:34] this is truly a rare
[02:21:38] or unprecedented media
[02:21:40] profile in the world. It is a very saddening situation,
[02:21:44] uh, but Turkey has come to this point
[02:21:47] in the last 20 years, especially regarding
[02:21:50] the media. You know how they say "it's a shame, it's a sin,"
[02:21:54] it really is a shame, it's a sin, and the people are the ones who lose
[02:21:57] again, because if this media
[02:22:01] didn't exist, TÜİK's inflation calculations would never
[02:22:05] have been criticized until today. So, people
[02:22:09] would never have seen how the minimum wage
[02:22:12] and pension were calculated to be so low.
[02:22:16] I will just give a simple example. Of course, Mr. Ertunç Özün, please go ahead.
[02:22:19] We are talking about the media, we are talking about the unequal
[02:22:22] distribution in the media. A moment ago, we saw a post by Abdülkadir Selvi,
[02:22:25] not a post, when we saw his article, Mr. Uğur
[02:22:28] also said a moment ago, Mr. Ali said, if an opposition member did this,
[02:22:32] a file would be opened for openly spreading misleading information,
[02:22:35] because you are talking about a presidential
[02:22:38] candidacy and a prison threat, and today, Mansur Yavaş's
[02:22:41] press advisor shared that these are entirely Abdülkadir Selvi's
[02:22:45] figment of imagination, and Abdülkadir Selvi
[02:22:48] himself shared this again, meaning he accepted it.
[02:22:52] Yet, there is nothing regarding this post, is there? But
[02:22:55] if an opposition journalist had done the same, that is,
[02:22:59] let's say it was evaluated within the scope of press freedom,
[02:23:03] I wish the opposition were looked at in the same way.
[02:23:06] And Abdulkadir Servi's
[02:23:08] denial made by the Press Advisor
[02:23:10] of the honorable Mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality,
[02:23:14] when he shared it on his own social media account,
[02:23:18] let's evaluate it as responsibility.
[02:23:20] As responsible journalism, he made a correction. Yes,
[02:23:24] he made a correction. In fact, Ms. Sinem, let's look at this issue from this
[02:23:27] perspective: the power of the parliament, especially
[02:23:31] after the transition to the presidential system, is an indication
[02:23:34] of how much it has declined. It is a hopeful
[02:23:37] indicator. The reason is this: Would it have been possible, Mr. Uğur
[02:23:41] also remembers well, for an MP to ask a question and the minister not
[02:23:45] to answer him within 15 days, and not
[02:23:48] to answer with the truth, whatever it may be? But today,
[02:23:51] I saw the other day, no explanation was given. For example,
[02:23:55] Mr. Minister of Justice, it hasn't been a year since he took office, has it?
[02:23:59] 900 questions were asked, and no question has been answered
[02:24:02] yet. For example, this is actually an indicator
[02:24:06] of how much the respect of the parliament or the oversight
[02:24:09] power of the MPs has been reduced.
[02:24:12] The fact that Mehmet Şimşek did not answer this question is also a very
[02:24:16] concrete example of how much the power of the parliament
[02:24:19] has been reduced. Well, thank you. Now,
[02:24:22] the hot topic of politics, one of the letters,
[02:24:24] notes, and issues.
[02:24:28] Meanwhile, my editor Alper sent me a message.
[02:24:32] Okay, there's an important note that Serra Karaçam will convey to us from the United States,
[02:24:35] but until then, until it's ready,
[02:24:39] especially regarding President's candidacy, statements continue to come
[02:24:42] from the AK Party Headquarters one after another. After President
[02:24:46] used the phrase "upcoming elections"
[02:24:50] while it became a matter of discussion whether there would be an early
[02:24:53] or snap election, Erdoğan's candidacy
[02:24:56] was also reopened for discussion. Because influential and authorized
[02:25:00] figures from the General Headquarters, for example, the Vice Chairman in charge
[02:25:04] of electoral affairs, said that there is no legal or
[02:25:08] constitutional obstacle to Erdoğan's candidacy, and that he can be
[02:25:11] a candidate again, referring to the elections to be brought
[02:25:15] forward by one week in the parliament, meaning 2028.
[02:25:18] Today, the group deputy chairman, one of the important figures
[02:25:22] in the party, Abdülhamit Gül, made a statement. If I'm not mistaken, in visual number 8,
[02:25:26] Mr. Gül says, "One of the important
[02:25:29] consensuses of our nation is for our President to continue
[02:25:33] his path as President and lead Turkey to
[02:25:36] stronger leadership. I believe that
[02:25:39] this demand and expectation of our nation will find a response
[02:25:42] in our Grand National Assembly. With the decision to be taken
[02:25:46] by our Assembly, our President will run again as a candidate for the presidential election." Now,
[02:25:55] we all know that, since our
[02:25:59] legal literacy has increased, it is possible for the President
[02:26:03] to be a candidate again either with a snap election decision
[02:26:06] or with a constitutional amendment. Which possibility does Mr. Gül
[02:26:09] see as stronger? What do you say? Candidacy discussions
[02:26:13] have started again in recent days because
[02:26:16] the constitution is proposing a new law. However,
[02:26:20] lately, instead of a new constitution,
[02:26:23] uh, along with the MPs,
[02:26:25] this actually emerged with Mehmet Uçum's article
[02:26:29] about a month and a half ago, if I remember correctly, within
[02:26:32] a month and a half. Uh,
[02:26:35] that's right. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan does not
[02:26:39] need to be elected again, but
[02:26:42] Turkey needs to elect Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
[02:26:44] again. This statement is very well remembered.
[02:26:48] It came out, and Mehmet Bey generally
[02:26:52] initiates these matters. In terms of bringing up a topic,
[02:26:55] then other AKP officials
[02:26:59] come here and talk about
[02:27:02] taking the MPs to early elections.
[02:27:05] This is a method
[02:27:08] of inviting our Grand National Assembly,
[02:27:11] with Abdülhamit Bey's words, to a trick, nothing else.
[02:27:15] We determined the constitution, and when we determined the
[02:27:18] constitution, without anyone,
[02:27:22] even our President at the time was known, but
[02:27:26] they said that they did not find it right
[02:27:29] for Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to be president more than twice. Was the AKP
[02:27:33] not in power when this constitution was determined? Was the AKP
[02:27:36] not in power when this article was written?
[02:27:39] Today, why was this article
[02:27:43] put there? A different situation
[02:27:45] may arise in the country, and the deputies may need
[02:27:48] to dissolve the parliament. "In that case, the presidential
[02:27:52] term can be repeated, it is not considered the second,"
[02:27:55] they say. Okay, very good. Today,
[02:27:59] they say that they are trying to circumvent the criterion they set
[02:28:02] that it should not be done more than twice with a trick.
[02:28:05] "We wrote this constitution, we
[02:28:09] determined it, and we think it is correct that
[02:28:12] the presidency should not be held more than twice,
[02:28:15] but we are inviting our Grand National Assembly to elect
[02:28:19] a third president with a trick." They should say this openly,
[02:28:23] that is, "no, Turkey needs
[02:28:26] it." Turkey does not need Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
[02:28:29] to be a candidate again, brother. Since you brought
[02:28:32] the presidential system in 2018, tell me one thing
[02:28:36] that has gone well in the country. In health?
[02:28:39] In education? In economy? We see what state we are in.
[02:28:42] Since 2018, nothing has gone well. He says he needs to be
[02:28:46] there again. Turkey doesn't need such a thing. Turkey needs change. The Grand National Assembly
[02:28:50] does not need to make anyone president
[02:28:53] again by trickery, in a way that violates the constitution.
[02:28:57] Abdülhamit Bey's statement can certainly be consistent
[02:29:01] for him, but what he is calling the parliament to is a trick.
[02:29:04] Now, Professor Mithat, actually, in the pro-government
[02:29:07] press and media, when the election issue is brought up, the calendar
[02:29:11] is either November 2027 or April 2028,
[02:29:14] but we already know very well the procedure, that is, for the President to be able
[02:29:18] to run as a candidate again, one of two things is necessary:
[02:29:22] either a constitutional amendment or an early election decision.
[02:29:25] Now, when the President used the phrase "upcoming elections,"
[02:29:29] it was asked if an early election was on the horizon, but today, Ömer
[02:29:33] Çelik said after the MYK meeting that there is no election or whatever
[02:29:36] on their agenda. So, what remains is a constitutional amendment.
[02:29:40] So, since all these things are now being talked about more loudly,
[02:29:44] is that the timeline? I don't think they will take the risk of a constitutional
[02:29:47] amendment. I mean, this is also possible,
[02:29:51] but what seems close to me is actually that if he says
[02:29:55] "we are going to early elections," the opposition will say "where did this election come from?"
[02:29:59] but then they will say "are you running away from the election?" So, when he puts forward the early election
[02:30:02] thesis, everyone may have to accept it. Therefore,
[02:30:05] here, 360
[02:30:08] will be found. Therefore, when the parliament makes a decision,
[02:30:12] you know, in 2018, they reset the odometer. The clock was reset.
[02:30:15] The period between 2014-2018 was not counted.
[02:30:18] The period between 2018-2020. is 1 term.
[02:30:21] 23:20, that is, 28 is two terms.
[02:30:25] In the second term, if there is an early election with a parliamentary decision, he can be a candidate again.
[02:30:28] Therefore, since the odometer started
[02:30:31] from 2018, when the parliament finds 360
[02:30:35] and makes an early election decision, no legal flaw is seen,
[02:30:39] even if it is debatable in terms of legitimacy. Now,
[02:30:42] here, for example, it says that the lines are very
[02:30:46] important. Abdülhamit Gül's "this demand of our nation
[02:30:50] and expectation will, I believe, find a response in our Grand National Assembly."
[02:30:53] That is, they will bring the early election
[02:30:56] to the parliament. That is, there is a constitutional
[02:30:59] amendment, he says. Of course, what could happen? For example, what
[02:31:03] argument could they use, dear Sinem? For example,
[02:31:06] if you strain your memory, about a year and a half ago,
[02:31:10] the chief legal advisor, Mehmet Uçum Bey, said something
[02:31:13] like "exceptional situation."
[02:31:16] This is very important, especially for those interested
[02:31:20] in political science and political sociology. They
[02:31:23] know well that there was a very
[02:31:26] famous political sociologist named Carl Schmitt who lived in the 1930s.
[02:31:30] Carl Schmitt has a thesis on the exceptional
[02:31:34] situation. He says that sometimes in a state, while
[02:31:37] the parliament is open, that is, while the political
[02:31:41] mechanism is functioning within a democratic order,
[02:31:44] such exceptional situations occur, which you can
[02:31:47] fill with regional crises, wars, any
[02:31:50] tension, then the sovereign
[02:31:53] is actually the decision-maker.
[02:31:56] That is, the parliament and everything can make decisions
[02:32:00] without going through the whole process. "In this exceptional
[02:32:03] situation, the decision-maker is sovereign and must make a decision,"
[02:32:06] he says, which is actually a thesis that paved the way for more authoritarian
[02:32:10] regimes. Now, these are being taken off the shelf again, Carl Schmitt is being re-written,
[02:32:13] doctoral theses are being written on him. I don't think Mehmet Uçum Bey
[02:32:16] used this by coincidence. So, something like this happened,
[02:32:19] and therefore, we should actually look not only at internal
[02:32:23] dynamics but also at external dynamics. In a process leading
[02:32:26] to elections, these external dynamics must be observed very, very well.
[02:32:30] I also agree with my professor. Also, in Turkish
[02:32:32] politics, The
[02:32:35] perspective of those in power is that
[02:32:39] yesterday is yesterday, today is today, meaning
[02:32:42] we do what today requires, and this never changes.
[02:32:45] Did you complete it?
[02:32:49] Yesterday is yesterday, haha, yes, yes. By
[02:32:52] the way, Ali Gökçek, Istanbul Deputy of the New Party, thank you very much for your
[02:32:56] contributions. We will say goodbye to you. I will turn to Mr.
[02:32:59] Küçükşahin. Don't look at your watch, you are still here.
[02:33:02] "I see, I see on the left while looking right. I will say something
[02:33:06] for Ali Gökçek and for 15. Of course, please.
[02:33:09] When talking about the new party,
[02:33:13] especially in our democracy, it is the first
[02:33:16] time that a political party has been established from scratch
[02:33:19] and reached such a high
[02:33:23] vote percentage in such a short
[02:33:26] time. This fact should never be
[02:33:29] overlooked when evaluating the new party.
[02:33:32] It is necessary to consider such a
[02:33:35] rise in votes and voter appreciation, which no other
[02:33:39] political party has experienced
[02:33:41] at its foundation, to this extent. Even the Justice and Development Party,
[02:33:44] when it came to power
[02:33:48] in 2003, the November 2002
[02:33:51] elections, and then
[02:33:54] came to power in 2003, even then, it barely
[02:33:57] reached this vote percentage, right, professor? Yes, I mean, after
[02:34:01] separating from the main body, consider the Democratic Party that split from the Justice Party,
[02:34:04] consider the Republican Trust Party that split from the Republican People's Party.
[02:34:08] For any party that splits from the main body, I completely
[02:34:11] agree, it is very rare for them to achieve such a
[02:34:15] rise in votes in such a short time, not just rare, but almost
[02:34:18] unseen. We must give it credit, but I think the
[02:34:21] decision that forced them to separate, which has gone
[02:34:24] down in legal history like Mutlan, also had an effect.
[02:34:27] Just as in the Istanbul elections, the 13,000
[02:34:31] difference rose to 800,000.
[02:34:44] Mr. Şükrükşahin, Erdoğan's candidacy is being particularly
[02:34:48] highlighted. What do you say?
[02:34:51] First of all, I think there is a magic word here:
[02:34:55] legitimacy. For example, as Uğur Abi said,
[02:34:58] the main reason for
[02:35:01] the new party becoming the first party a week or
[02:35:04] a few days after its establishment is its
[02:35:07] legitimacy. In other words,
[02:35:09] this party was established on legitimate
[02:35:13] grounds and as a result of legitimate necessities. All
[02:35:16] illegitimate initiatives have
[02:35:19] therefore gathered the reaction of the
[02:35:22] people. Here, the new party became
[02:35:26] the first party due to its legitimate
[02:35:29] status. Now, today, elections will be held.
[02:35:33] "No one should worry about this.
[02:35:36] Anatolian lands have been very experienced and
[02:35:40] very conscious about the ballot box for 150 years.
[02:35:44] Especially, they will never forgive the slightest
[02:35:48] disrespect to their will.
[02:35:51] They will punish it more than
[02:35:54] enough. Now,
[02:35:57] early elections will be held on this date, on that date, 360 will be found,
[02:36:01] will not be found. 400 will be, will not be. Do you know,
[02:36:05] all of these can hypothetically happen,
[02:36:09] of course, but I think this
[02:36:11] will be a coercion and it will not have legitimacy. If
[02:36:15] you say early election, it should be at least one year
[02:36:18] in advance. Otherwise, if you are not
[02:36:22] going to hold early elections, this, I think,
[02:36:26] would be going outside of legitimacy. In what
[02:36:28] sense? In terms of getting the will of the people
[02:36:32] behind you, especially in this area,
[02:36:35] I say. Now, you will
[02:36:38] transfer deputies.
[02:36:41] You will try to defeat the opposition by using
[02:36:45] all your forces, and in this way, you
[02:36:49] will make the early election decision,
[02:36:52] I think, as if mocking society and all of us, saying
[02:36:56] that if we do it a month or a week earlier, it will be an early election.
[02:37:00] Believe me, this will have no legitimacy in the eyes
[02:37:03] of the people, and it should be known that
[02:37:07] Turkey has been experiencing a crisis for a long time. I am
[02:37:10] not saying this only in terms of an economic crisis.
[02:37:13] There is also a crisis in terms of political trust.
[02:37:17] There is also a crisis in terms of state management.
[02:37:19] All of these are happening in front of society's eyes.
[02:37:23] Society wants to get out of this crisis. It
[02:37:26] has also seen that getting out of this crisis
[02:37:29] is not possible with the system created in the last 10
[02:37:32] years. So, the system needs to be changed.
[02:37:35] Change is needed. Something new needs to be done,
[02:37:39] something new needs to be said, a new proposal needs to be made.
[02:37:42] The current government does not leave
[02:37:45] a positive impression in response to
[02:37:48] any of these issues. On the contrary, as I just
[02:37:52] said, it feels the need to eliminate
[02:37:55] the opposition through illegitimate means. It does
[02:37:58] this in every area of life. Sinem hanım,
[02:38:01] what we have seen in Üsküdar for the last few days,
[02:38:05] what we have seen in Adana Yüreyir, or the political ban
[02:38:08] and prison sentence given to Ekrem İmamoğlu
[02:38:11] after he was acquitted twice, we have seen the conditions
[02:38:15] of all these. I think all these
[02:38:18] increase the legitimacy discussion
[02:38:21] I just mentioned, and all
[02:38:24] of this is happening in front of society's eyes. Turkey
[02:38:27] is chronically experiencing inflation.
[02:38:31] Pardon, we are listening to you. Your
[02:38:35] voice went away and came back. Don't let another voice
[02:38:39] interrupt. I apologize. Turkey, look, I always
[02:38:42] give this example: there is no other country in the world
[02:38:46] that has struggled with inflation for so long. It has become
[02:38:49] chronic. Turkey's economic problems have also become chronic.
[02:38:52] All of these happened during this government's term. While all this
[02:38:56] is happening, if the market,
[02:39:00] which is the place where ordinary people do most of
[02:39:03] their shopping, has ceased to be that,
[02:39:06] if the market vendor is closing their stall there,
[02:39:10] if people cannot go and shop there,
[02:39:14] if that place has also...
[02:39:46] regarding the issue, but since you will be leaving at the end of this hour, I would like to get
[02:39:49] your final assessment. So, regarding
[02:39:52] the agenda, please, professor, is that right? Before
[02:39:56] connecting, yes, please. I agree, of course. Now, Mr.
[02:40:00] Şükrü mentioned a change. What are we talking
[02:40:03] about? Why, for example, do we need to oppose, and
[02:40:07] based on what dynamics and parameters are we saying this? There
[02:40:11] are 14 trillion liras of interest payments in the next 3 years.
[02:40:15] This means approximately 3 trillion 865
[02:40:18] billion in 2027, 4 trillion 170
[02:40:22] billion in 2028, and 4 trillion 300
[02:40:25] 345 billion in 2029. When you add them up, there
[02:40:29] are approximately 14 trillion liras of interest payments. Now,
[02:40:33] so the viewers don't get confused, let me put it this way: everyone pays
[02:40:36] taxes. For every 100 liras in the budget, 19 liras
[02:40:40] and 43 kuruş go to interest, and only 9.95
[02:40:43] kuruş go to investment. That is, half of the interest
[02:40:47] goes to investment. That is why the unemployment
[02:40:50] rate has reached 31% of society. That is why there is such
[02:40:54] impoverishment, as we discussed earlier. That is why there
[02:40:57] is a significant distortion in income distribution that will
[02:41:01] not improve. That is why the middle class has disappeared and
[02:41:05] is rapidly moving towards the lower segment. So, for society, both
[02:41:09] the unemployed with diplomas and those we call
[02:41:12] unskilled unemployed, who are neither
[02:41:15] in school nor university nor at home, for
[02:41:18] all these young people, to rebuild their dreams, to re-establish
[02:41:22] social peace, for the social consensus we call consent
[02:41:25] to be re-realized,
[02:41:27] for people to regain the lost smile
[02:41:31] they have lost, a change is certainly
[02:41:34] needed. As long as the parties aspiring
[02:41:37] to change can present a prescription
[02:41:41] that is like a pill, compact, understandable
[02:41:44] to everyone, and that they can really
[02:41:47] embrace with faith for the future. Let me get
[02:41:51] a final assessment from you. I believe that the anti-democratic
[02:41:54] initiatives of the Justice and Development Party,
[02:41:57] especially towards the new party,
[02:42:01] will not benefit the party. I
[02:42:04] believe that initiatives and facts that have
[02:42:07] not gained their legitimacy from the ballot
[02:42:10] box will not be enough to keep a political
[02:42:14] party in power. As an example,
[02:42:17] I show this: How was the Justice and Development
[02:42:21] Party founded? It was founded by breaking away from the Welfare
[02:42:25] Party, that main body. The Welfare Party
[02:42:28] was previously led by the late Professor
[02:42:32] Necmettin Erbakan as its general
[02:42:35] chairman. That political view, through the
[02:42:38] closure of numerous parties, became the Welfare Party, then
[02:42:42] the Virtue Party after Welfare. Yes, National Salvation,
[02:42:45] Virtue, National Order, National Salvation,
[02:42:48] Welfare, Virtue, Virtue. If
[02:42:52] prohibitions or initiatives that we
[02:42:55] could call anti-democratic could prevent a
[02:42:59] political formation from coming to power,
[02:43:02] then the Justice and Development Party, chaired
[02:43:05] by Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan, could not have come
[02:43:08] to power in its first election. But those
[02:43:12] in power, who cannot foresee this, must
[02:43:16] always keep this reality in mind
[02:43:18] for their own political future and
[02:43:22] for our democratic
[02:43:24] life. It is very important. It
[02:43:27] is very valuable. I have a request for the
[02:43:31] viewers of Halk TV. I want to address
[02:43:34] them. As you saw earlier, Halk TV gets
[02:43:37] its strength from you, dear viewers. It has no
[02:43:41] other power to rely on. Halk TV is an uncensored
[02:43:45] television, just like the name of this program.
[02:43:48] Look, in this studio where we are currently
[02:43:52] speaking, there is no prompter in front of
[02:43:54] any camera. The on-screen faces
[02:43:58] of Halk TV do not read a pre-written
[02:44:01] text by looking at a prompter. They express
[02:44:04] their thoughts freely within the framework
[02:44:08] of their personal and professional responsibilities.
[02:44:12] While doing this, they strictly adhere to universal
[02:44:15] professional principles. Therefore,
[02:44:18] I ask you to continue to increase your support
[02:44:22] for Halk TV. Because for Turkey to breathe a
[02:44:26] democratic atmosphere, it greatly needs Halk TV
[02:44:29] to continue its existence. Mr. Dunar, you touched
[02:44:33] on such a beautiful and accurate point, which is also
[02:44:36] very compatible with today's issues. That's why I call Halk TV viewers
[02:44:40] "Great Halk TV viewers." Like "Great Fenerbahçe fans" and so on.
[02:44:44] Great Halk TV viewers. Yes, we don't get a single penny
[02:44:47] from public institutions and organizations, but they have such
[02:44:50] appreciation and such respect and love that
[02:44:54] in my many years in this profession, of course, my professional life is nothing
[02:45:34] Let's do it, but for a minute, why has the general headquarters started making consecutive statements
[02:45:37] regarding the president's candidacy? Statements are coming that there
[02:45:41] is no legal or constitutional
[02:45:43] obstacle. I think that the
[02:45:47] normative situation, the rule-bound situation, is
[02:45:51] behind us. They will enter this process as they please,
[02:45:54] and I don't think they have achieved legitimacy. For
[02:45:57] the opposition, will they say no to early elections,
[02:46:01] as Mr. Mithat Hoca said?
[02:46:04] They will use that. I think the main
[02:46:07] problem is that they will go into the election
[02:46:11] by exaggerating the opposition's legitimacy problem. Now,
[02:46:14] as I was entering the broadcast, we were constantly
[02:46:17] messaging. Today, it's a disastrous situation, yesterday,
[02:46:20] today. Now, our journalist friends, Tuğba
[02:46:23] Tekerek, yes, her arrest is being requested right now for reporting in Georgia.
[02:46:40] See you later. Let's take a break for the third hour.
[02:46:42] Let's
[02:46:48] come back at the top of the hour.
[02:46:54] Turkey's energy is its
[02:46:57] essence. Orbus.
[02:47:05] Even if time passes, Koçak always preserves its value
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[03:00:09] Orbus. Yes, we are starting the 4th hour. We are
[03:00:13] discussing the hot topics of domestic politics, but we
[03:00:16] will go to Washington, as there was a very
[03:00:20] important meeting at the White House. The person who
[03:00:23] held the meeting was the Minister of Justice, as
[03:00:27] everyone knows Trump's demand, especially for
[03:00:30] voting by mail, before the elections to be
[03:00:33] held in November. Therefore, the statement to be made
[03:00:37] by the Minister of Justice and the messages he would
[03:00:40] give at the press conference were also
[03:00:43] important, and with all its splendor, our beloved
[03:00:46] Serra Karaçam, Halk TV's Washington correspondent, will
[03:00:50] convey what's happening there with her smiling face. Now,
[03:00:53] should we start with the Minister of Justice holding
[03:00:57] a meeting at the White House? Or should we go
[03:01:00] to where the mail-in voting issue will evolve? I will immediately
[03:01:05] give the floor to you, dear Serra. Please convey it.
[03:01:08] Yes, thank you very much. Today, it is indeed an
[03:01:12] unusual sight for the Minister of Justice to
[03:01:15] choose the White House as the venue for his press
[03:01:19] conference. The White House Press Secretary, after having her second child,
[03:01:23] left her post, but actually the main reason
[03:01:26] was President Trump's departure from Ankara in
[03:01:29] a food cargo plane instead of a regular
[03:01:33] plane after security concerns, and putting
[03:01:37] his press secretary in such a known threat
[03:01:40] is said to have made her make this decision. She
[03:01:43] then left her post, saying she would take
[03:01:47] care of her child. For this reason, various
[03:01:50] administration officials and ministers come to the
[03:01:54] White House podium because no new person has been
[03:01:58] appointed, and they hold press conferences here.
[03:02:01] However, this situation is not customary for
[03:02:05] the Minister of Justice, because the Minister of Justice
[03:02:08] is expected to be more impartial, even if he
[03:02:12] has an ideological affiliation, at least
[03:02:15] symbolically, they usually do not speak at
[03:02:19] the administration's rostrum here. The FBI
[03:02:23] can come, other directors can come and give
[03:02:26] information, but today, in this sense, the
[03:02:30] press conference in the Rose Garden of the
[03:02:32] White House, especially being announced and held
[03:02:36] here one day after the Constitutional Court's decision, was therefore
[03:02:39] significant. We can say that it was
[03:02:43] an unprecedented event and it naturally brought
[03:02:46] new questions about independence back to the agenda.
[03:02:49] Let's talk about the Supreme Court's the process of distributing ballots
[03:02:52] in states like he thought he could consolidate
[03:02:56] his powers in the federal government. Objections came from lower
[03:02:59] courts. On August 24, the Supreme Court temporarily
[03:03:03] gave permission to Trump, but yesterday the final
[03:03:06] decision came, and it was said that he would not be able to
[03:03:10] do this because the elections would be at risk.
[03:03:13] Let's provide this background information. Of course, the Minister of Justice
[03:03:17] came out today and said that the president's goal
[03:03:21] is not to prevent people from voting or restrict them, but on the contrary,
[03:03:25] he supports free and fair elections. He explained, "We took this step
[03:03:28] to prevent illegal voting, voting by non-citizens,
[03:03:32] and to prevent duplicate voting."
[03:03:36] Therefore, this decision
[03:03:40] will not actually hinder our work. We will continue
[03:03:42] our investigations into those who vote again or who vote
[03:03:46] while being immigrants. He gave the message
[03:03:49] that we will continue these investigations, but
[03:03:52] for now, the post office will continue to distribute
[03:03:55] the existing envelopes and ballots of the states. The restrictive
[03:03:59] provisions they wanted will not
[03:04:02] be implemented. The president also had
[03:04:06] other messages from the Minister of Justice today, but if there is anything you want to ask, let me take that first
[03:04:09] and then we can continue, because
[03:04:12] especially in our conversation in between,
[03:04:15] there is also a decision taken regarding
[03:04:17] the broadcasting license. Now, it is clear to us how important
[03:04:21] the Radio and Television Supreme Council is. So, when I heard
[03:04:24] there was a decision about those licenses, I thought it was
[03:04:28] worth asking. Yes, actually, there might be a slight misunderstanding
[03:04:31] there. I wanted to contribute to your broadcast
[03:04:34] with what regulations RTÜK here makes
[03:04:38] regarding the issue. No important question about licenses was asked
[03:04:41] to the Minister of Justice at this meeting today, but let me just say
[03:04:45] that here too, there is a commission called the FCC,
[03:04:48] and as a regulatory body,
[03:04:52] this commission normally, independently of the views of its officials,
[03:04:56] does not consider editorial viewpoints but other
[03:04:59] requirements, such as certain content for children and families,
[03:05:02] and to guarantee
[03:05:05] true independence, all candidates
[03:05:09] should speak for an equal amount of time. If a candidate from
[03:05:12] one state speaks, their opponent should speak
[03:05:16] for the same number of minutes.
[03:05:28] they got into serious legal trouble, because instead of protecting the freedom of expression article of the constitution,
[03:05:31] they took steps towards punishment, towards threatening
[03:05:35] with license renewal. They started an investigation
[03:05:38] without waiting for the time when licenses are normally renewed every 8 years
[03:05:42] for ABC and Channel 8, and with this license stick,
[03:05:45] they enabled them to self-censor,
[03:05:48] meaning instead of directly
[03:05:51] prohibiting speech, they put pressure
[03:05:54] on channels and intermediaries,
[03:05:57] and thus on advertisers, banks,
[03:06:00] and payment systems that advertise on those channels,
[03:06:04] and indirectly shaped
[03:06:08] things. My God,
[03:06:10] how far away these things are from us. I mean, you're explaining it now,
[03:06:14] and I just can't believe it. It means
[03:06:28] that they haven't gotten their share of democracy, as far as I understand, but at least something is coming from the judiciary,
[03:06:32] let's add that. Of course, now, when did this discussion
[03:06:35] first come up? We've been talking about the Iran war for months,
[03:06:39] you know, the Iran war is the number one topic
[03:06:41] even in prime time slots. For a long time,
[03:06:45] they started labeling some news
[03:06:49] about the administration's failures regarding the Iran war as fake news,
[03:06:52] and they threatened to revoke the licenses
[03:06:55] of those channels if they continued to report
[03:06:59] with such an approach. Trump even explicitly told a reporter,
[03:07:02] "You shouldn't have a license. How can you ask if Iran
[03:07:06] has been defeated?" Also, there was an important
[03:07:09] programmer named Jimmy Kimmel on ABC. He recently
[03:07:12] interviewed a senator, but due to pressure,
[03:07:16] on the grounds that the other party was not given enough time,
[03:07:18] they had to upload the interview to YouTube; it could not be broadcast
[03:07:22] on the channel. So, they act as if they support
[03:07:26] diversity, and they say that's why they are doing it, but it always
[03:07:29] works for one side. It always works when there is a Democratic interview,
[03:07:33] because it was not biased against the other side. Therefore, lawsuits are currently
[03:07:36] ongoing. Broadcasters, especially
[03:07:39] television broadcasters, are given fewer rights
[03:07:43] than the written press. That is, while the written press
[03:07:46] has a jurisprudence that protects freedom of expression,
[03:07:50] television broadcasters do not. This is also
[03:07:53] being re-evaluated. Of course, journalists are no longer satisfied,
[03:07:57] because, for example, the owner of the Washington Post,
[03:08:00] Jeff Bezos, is known to be close to the administration,
[03:08:03] because he is a businessman. They resigned from the Washington Post
[03:08:07] and moved to Washington Sanayi, we talked about that
[03:08:10] a few days ago. The press part is like this. Our viewers who compare,
[03:08:13] in the first part, with the comments of dear Uğur Dündar,
[03:08:17] let them combine it with what I have told them
[03:08:21] and compare it themselves. But they will follow you,
[03:08:24] because they were curious about what you would say,
[03:08:26] dear Serra. Yes, now the Minister of Justice.
[03:08:30] Let me mention a few short headlines, and then I'll leave the floor to you.
[03:08:34] You know, there was news yesterday that a Russian businessman,
[03:08:38] allegedly close to Putin, had contributed hundreds
[03:08:41] of thousands of dollars as a wedding gift
[03:08:45] for President Trump's son's wedding. This was also asked to the Minister of Justice.
[03:08:49] A brave journalist asked, "Will you investigate these claims?
[03:08:53] Is there any impropriety here? A businessman, said to be close
[03:08:57] to a foreign head of state, while in office." You know,
[03:09:01] the wedding just happened, and Trump couldn't even attend, let's remind that. To this question,
[03:09:04] he replied that it would be difficult to investigate
[03:09:07] the wedding gift, and he said that they didn't
[03:09:11] have enough information. He said that the claim that he was Putin's friend
[03:09:14] was just a claim, and there was no evidence to prove it. Therefore, he refrained from giving
[03:09:18] details, but journalists are not afraid to ask questions.
[03:09:22] This alone is an important assessment of the situation, I think.
[03:09:26] Another topic, as you know, there are very strict
[03:09:29] immigration policies. To the extent that an investigation
[03:09:33] was launched into Representative Ilhan Omar. There were rumors for months,
[03:09:36] for years, that she married her brother to give him
[03:09:39] legal status. This was asked to the Minister of Justice,
[03:09:43] and he said he did not want to comment on an ongoing investigation.
[03:09:46] Again, regarding the ideological polarization in institutions,
[03:09:50] "Are you taking any steps in this regard? Everywhere is taken over by a certain
[03:09:53] ideology." He said that the ideology
[03:09:56] of any federal employee, whether Republican
[03:10:00] or Democrat, is not a good thing. "We are doing our best
[03:10:03] to prevent this." Let's add this immediately:
[03:10:06] there is serious judicial cooperation between Turkey and the United States,
[03:10:10] especially the FBI. Two important individuals
[03:10:13] sought by America were extradited from Turkey to Turkey.
[03:10:16] One is a terrorist, and the other
[03:10:19] is an individual who committed healthcare fraud and misused public funds.
[03:10:23] Their names are İbrahim Haldun and Muhammed Bakır Elsadi, an Iraqi
[03:10:27] national with links to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
[03:10:33] Turkey immediately arrested and extradited
[03:10:36] these two individuals, but while these individuals
[03:10:39] who fled from America were coming, there are also individuals
[03:10:43] that Turkey wants, for example, Umut Altaş, whose extradition
[03:10:47] case is still ongoing. There is an important witness,
[03:10:51] perhaps also a suspect, in the Gülistan Doku Murder case,
[03:10:54] and he has important information about the governor's son.
[03:10:58] This cooperation always works for one side, meaning in favor of America.
[03:11:02] We see that it is not progressing. Another important file
[03:11:05] is Taşkın Torlak, who had to confess his crime
[03:11:08] in the Venezuela sanctions case after being held in prison.
[03:11:12] He was caught while the owner of the company he worked for
[03:11:15] was being sought, even though it was not his own company. Despite
[03:11:18] his confession, he was not allowed to return home, while other
[03:11:22] individuals were waiting at home. His process
[03:11:26] will be determined. There are issues like these. And finally, another Turkish
[03:11:30] citizen, Mustafa Mollaoğlu, was arrested in Panama
[03:11:34] as part of an American operation for violating Iranian sanctions.
[03:11:37] But there is a confidentiality order, so how consistent
[03:11:40] or inconsistent this cooperation is, these are important test
[03:11:44] points. Thank you very much, dear Serra Karaçam. With all your energy,
[03:11:48] you summarized the agenda of the United States in one breath,
[03:11:50] in one go. Good luck,
[03:11:54] and good broadcasts. Thank you, Ercüment Akdeniz. Before we went to the break,
[03:11:57] you had started to explain how what happened in the country
[03:12:00] in the last 24 hours would shed light on the upcoming period.
[03:12:04] Please, if you remember where you left off, let's continue from there. Of course, yes,
[03:12:08] you are discussing whether there will be an early election.
[03:12:11] Now, when we look at that medium-term program,
[03:12:14] we see signs that the election has been brought forward. This was discussed,
[03:12:17] but we also need to look at the operations.
[03:12:20] That is, operations against municipalities, operations against the main
[03:12:23] opposition were already
[03:12:26] systematized, but this situation has now
[03:12:30] reached an interesting point in the last few days.
[03:12:33] As a news center at İlke TV, I'm sure
[03:12:36] you are struggling to follow at Halk TV. Şükrü Bey
[03:12:39] is also very knowledgeable. Now I'm taking notes, I'll catch up.
[03:12:45] He can be arrested at any moment, his statement is being taken.
[03:12:49] This was done within the scope of LGBT operations, but our journalist
[03:12:52] friends, Canhan Coşkun and Kazım Kızıl,
[03:12:56] our journalist friends,
[03:12:58] are now being investigated in connection with the Rabia Naz file,
[03:13:02] with a request for 14 years in prison. We already
[03:13:05] know Selahattin Günday, he was arrested for the second time,
[03:13:09] for the second time. Now today again,
[03:13:12] Şebnem Korur Fincancı, Erol Önder, former RSF
[03:13:16] representative, Turkey representative Ali Nesin, and other names
[03:13:20] were brought before the court again in the Özgür Gündem case, which was
[03:13:23] actually a closed case. Now, the decision to continue
[03:13:26] Nadiye Gürbüz's detention was given. While all
[03:13:30] this is happening, one should probably think,
[03:13:33] as the press area, the area of press freedom,
[03:13:37] is narrowing so much, how will the opposition go to the elections?
[03:13:40] It has no voice, no right to receive information. Therefore,
[03:13:45] let me also say this, Ertunç Bey, Evrensel newspaper,
[03:13:49] meaning the daily Evrensel newspaper, has 1 million followers
[03:13:52] on X, and an access block
[03:13:55] was imposed on it, and it does labor journalism. Now we are talking
[03:13:58] about the diesel price hike, we are talking about the workers'
[03:14:02] problems. How will unions and laborers make their voices heard now?
[03:14:05] You come to the Ali İsmail Korkmaz Foundation. Ali İsmail
[03:14:09] Korkmaz was lynched in a very brutal and cruel way
[03:14:12] in the middle of the street in Eskişehir and
[03:14:15] killed. His mother Emel Anne, along with
[03:14:18] his family, his elder brother, lawyer Gürkan
[03:14:22] Korkmaz, established a foundation that provides
[03:14:25] scholarships to children, and education. There is nothing else. How can you block access
[03:14:29] to this account? Why do you block access?
[03:14:32] They say there will be a process for peace academics,
[03:14:35] and steps will be taken, etc. But you say peace,
[03:14:39] and then access to the peace academics' account
[03:14:42] was blocked. Amnesty International's was blocked.
[03:14:45] It's endless. Now, when things are like this,
[03:14:49] what a dark tunnel we are entering, and
[03:14:52] will there really be a chance for a normal election,
[03:14:55] even at a minimum level, in this dark tunnel?
[03:14:58] Will it be an equal race between parties?
[03:15:02] I mean, looking at it from here, there is also an operation
[03:15:05] against socialists today. 39 people
[03:15:09] were detained. Probably there are arrests, I can't follow
[03:15:12] it now. For example, one of them is Mert Titiz, the president
[03:15:16] of the Socialist Refoundation Party. The president was taken
[03:15:19] into custody within the scope of this investigation. These are also
[03:15:22] a component party of the HDP. Moreover, the process,
[03:15:25] etc., there were concerns about trust in the process,
[03:15:29] which it increased. You talk about a new constitution, don't you? "We will bring
[03:15:33] it on October 1st, we will discuss it." Who
[03:15:35] will you have a social consensus with? You arrest journalists,
[03:15:39] you judge people for their gender, you include them
[03:15:42] in the scope, you criminalize them, you operate against municipalities
[03:15:46] every day, you turn the name of the main opposition party
[03:15:50] into a problem. I don't take that
[03:15:54] lightly at all. Let's see what comes out of there,
[03:15:57] including the issue of electoral eligibility. Also, Fatih Yıldız,
[03:16:01] for example, made an interesting post.
[03:16:04] I don't know if you talked about it, but please tell us, or
[03:16:07] let's introduce a new threshold for parties in the system.
[03:16:11] But the election law...
[03:16:22] Şükrü Bey, as far as I understand, Ercüment Akdeniz's concern
[03:16:26] and question is this: as a journalist, he cannot foresee
[03:16:30] a normal election climate. He asks how it will be. Excuse me, before I hand over to Şükrü Bey,
[03:16:33] let me just connect with one sentence. I'm also curious
[03:16:37] about Şükrü Bey's thoughts. After all, we are colleagues. So,
[03:16:41] parties, the opposition as a whole,
[03:16:43] everyone has many problems,
[03:16:47] but can't they come together and fight for press freedom,
[03:16:50] against censorship, can't they have a very strong
[03:16:53] rally, a very strong opposition? I mean, if journalists
[03:16:57] cannot be protected today, when will they be protected?
[03:17:00] How will this blockade be broken?
[03:17:03] This also needs to happen. Not just one party,
[03:17:06] but all the opposition, all the unions, all civil
[03:17:10] society, all together, can't they do something like this? Take a breath.
[03:17:27] We are easily expecting arrests,
[03:17:31] social media posts are constantly
[03:17:33] being banned, and they are forced to create new ones.
[03:17:36] I have been in this profession for 45 years,
[03:17:40] believe me, we used to not like
[03:17:43] what was happening, we would criticize it.
[03:17:46] Those days were days of freedom for journalists.
[03:17:49] Unfortunately, we have come to that point. For example, we keep
[03:17:53] saying it, but nobody... Don't simplify this.
[03:17:57] I have been saying since the beginning that journalists
[03:17:59] use their power to inform the public,
[03:18:03] to spread news to the public. Just as judges
[03:18:06] and magistrates make decisions on behalf of the people,
[03:18:10] journalists also observe and watch on behalf of the people,
[03:18:13] and convey it to the people. Now, for example,
[03:18:16] in an administration of a party that prides itself
[03:18:19] on having the largest courthouse in the world
[03:18:23] and has "justice" in its name. Journalists
[03:18:26] are seated like refugees in a corner
[03:18:30] of the hall. However, a journalist should
[03:18:34] be in a position to see the judicial
[03:18:38] personnel, the defendants, and the defense personnel,
[03:18:41] because even the smallest hand gestures and facial expressions
[03:18:44] between them, to give a simple example,
[03:18:48] carry news value, and the public needs to know these.
[03:18:51] That is, they need to see any such movement of a judge,
[03:18:55] a prosecutor, a defense lawyer, or a defendant, and report
[03:18:58] it to the public. But no, I also stated this
[03:19:02] in the first section, or rather,
[03:19:05] when talking about the advertising embargoes
[03:19:08] against the media.
[03:19:11] The ethical principles of the media have been destroyed.
[03:19:14] The freedom to receive and disseminate news has been abolished.
[03:19:17] Look, journalism has become a simple accusation.
[03:19:21] What was that fake news,
[03:19:27] what was the classic saying, misinformation, spreading misleading information.
[03:19:30] I don't want to memorize spreading misleading information
[03:19:33] publicly because we might become accustomed to it.
[03:19:37] We shouldn't become accustomed to it. It shouldn't be that easy,
[03:19:40] but this disinformation law was passed. Look,
[03:19:44] it was said that this was not related to journalists, but under
[03:19:48] the pretext of the disinformation law, our friends are being arrested
[03:19:51] and detained. They remain in prison for months, for years.
[03:19:55] They remain in custody.
[03:19:57] I think this is not just an opposition
[03:20:00] problem, but also a government problem. That is,
[03:20:04] the government should also be meticulous about media
[03:20:08] freedom. We may be right to criticize
[03:20:11] the opposition for not protecting it, but our main message
[03:20:14] is, "Oh government, you have the power.
[03:20:17] If you believe in the public's right to information
[03:20:20] in this country, then you must free the media,
[03:20:24] you must free journalists, not newspaper
[03:20:27] owners, not media moguls.
[03:20:30] You must especially free journalists."
[03:20:33] Unfortunately, since the AK Party came
[03:20:36] to power, it has taken no steps
[03:20:40] that would make us happy or pleased in this regard.
[03:20:43] On the contrary, today, as in every
[03:20:47] area of life, it is using excessive force
[03:20:49] in the media area
[03:20:52] and choosing to suppress the media
[03:20:56] in one way or another. For that reason,
[03:20:59] a very strong voice must be raised,
[03:21:03] and this must be done by all parties.
[03:21:06] This voice must be raised, and the media that claims
[03:21:10] to be close to the government should remember
[03:21:13] ethical principles again, I think.
[03:21:16] The real problem is there. In the past, there were
[03:21:20] media organizations with different ideologies,
[03:21:22] but when it came to journalistic
[03:21:25] principles, when it came to journalistic
[03:21:28] ethics, there was generally
[03:21:31] a very broad area where they agreed,
[03:21:34] and they could come together. But today it is not
[03:21:38] like that. We are in a completely different world.
[03:21:41] That is, no one should see this as a simple example,
[03:21:45] but people who call themselves journalists come out and say,
[03:21:48] "This one should be thrown in jail, this one should suffer,
[03:21:50] this one should rot, this one should be imprisoned."
[03:21:54] This is a horrific picture. But where does this power come from?
[03:21:58] It comes from the government. When a well-known opposition
[03:22:01] journalist says the same thing, they are immediately investigated.
[03:22:04] But when someone close to the government says this,
[03:22:07] let alone an investigation, they are applauded.
[03:22:10] This situation, Ercüment Hoca,
[03:22:14] must change. And Turkey must change it.
[03:22:17] As I always say, the government has more responsibility.
[03:22:21] As long as the government loses its democratic
[03:22:24] maturity, it increases its pressure
[03:22:27] on the media. Today, I truly
[03:22:31] believe, they always say, for example, that Mr. President
[03:22:34] reads politics well. I no longer think Mr. President reads
[03:22:37] politics well, because if he read politics well,
[03:22:41] Üsküdar shouldn't be like this, there shouldn't be so much pressure
[03:22:45] on the media, because these cause the government
[03:22:48] to lose its legitimacy, these cause the government,
[03:22:51] or rather the AK Party, to experience an erosion
[03:22:55] of trust among the people,
[03:22:59] and today these suppressions
[03:23:02] are also seen by their own voter
[03:23:06] base. They cannot stomach
[03:23:09] what is happening in Üsküdar. "Is this all our power?"
[03:23:12] I mean, look, today,
[03:23:16] I was chatting today, Ms. Sinema,
[03:23:19] and do you know what the person across from me said? "Oh,
[03:23:22] Şükrü Bey," he said, "it's very easy to win municipal elections now."
[03:23:26] "How so?" I asked. "What will happen? 4 transfers,
[03:23:30] 3 detentions, 2 arrests. You've won the municipality,
[03:23:33] the council members." Now, if this is being talked about
[03:23:37] in Turkey, if this is being talked about,
[03:23:40] then the government has really lost the trust of the voters.
[03:23:43] This is due to excessive use of force.
[03:23:46] Today, there is only one thing the government knows.
[03:23:50] I mean, in that sense, I say, "I will use force,
[03:23:53] I will use excessive force. By using excessive force,
[03:23:56] I will get the desired result, I will protect my power." No, no.
[03:24:00] The voters see this, and in Turkey,
[03:24:02] an election cannot be avoided.
[03:24:07] The voters see that the economy cannot recover,
[03:24:11] that the price of a liter of diesel has now reached
[03:24:15] triple digits, or is starting to reach them.
[03:24:18] What was always said?
[03:24:21] "The economy wants predictability,
[03:24:25] the economy wants legal regulations
[03:24:27] to be implemented, and the judiciary
[03:24:31] not to be instrumentalized." In such climates,
[03:24:34] economies can recover. Now,
[03:24:38] there is a war near us, that's true, it was in Russia and Ukraine,
[03:24:42] and there is one between the US and Iran, but how right is it to evaluate
[03:24:45] this current situation only by geopolitical risks
[03:24:48] or the developments around us? Now, we say
[03:24:52] the real agenda of the citizen, of course, we know
[03:24:56] the economy, we are aware. The price of diesel reaching
[03:24:59] 100 liras today. Please, I would like to ask
[03:25:02] the director, Murat Erdoğan, to project the visuals
[03:25:06] on the screen. How it came from where to where. That is,
[03:25:09] in 2021, the price of a liter of diesel,
[03:25:13] which reached double digits, is now on the verge of triple digits
[03:25:17] 5 years later. That is, as of yesterday,
[03:25:20] after the confirmed 6.62 increase,
[03:25:23] it exceeded 90 liras in Istanbul, and reached 95 liras
[03:25:26] in Batman and other places. Look at what it was and what it became.
[03:25:30] At the end of 2021, the price of a liter of diesel
[03:25:33] was 11.50. At the end of 2022, it was 22.0.
[03:25:38] At the end of 2023, it was 36.40.
[03:25:41] At the end of 2024, it was 43.20.
[03:25:44] In 2025, that is, last December,
[03:25:48] the price of a liter of diesel, which was 65 liras,
[03:25:52] is currently 96 liras.
[03:25:55] The increase in diesel in 5 years is 841%.
[03:25:59] The increase since the beginning of the year
[03:26:02] is 50%. So, there's that classic saying now,
[03:26:05] "I always buy for 50 liras." "No matter how much it increases."
[03:26:09] Now, with our largest banknote,
[03:26:12] 200 liras, you can buy 2 liters of gasoline.
[03:26:15] Ertunçöz, you're giving away your biggest banknote for 200 liras,
[03:26:19] and it gives you 2 liters of petrol or diesel,
[03:26:23] that is, when we look at the price per liter of diesel in countries at war,
[03:26:26] you'll say that Iran is already a rich country in terms of resources,
[03:26:30] but in Syria, it's between 49 and 70 liras, and there
[03:26:34] were protests here too, about the increase in fuel prices.
[03:26:37] Is the price hike only affecting fuel, Ertunçöz? I mean,
[03:26:41] we're not such an unconscious society that we don't know
[03:26:44] that this increase, re-evaluation, and
[03:26:48] re-pricing of everything, from needles to thread, has a huge impact.
[03:26:51] Let's leave aside needles and thread, I don't want to digress,
[03:26:55] but we go to trials in Silivri, right? The cost for a lawyer or
[03:26:58] a defendant to go to and from a trial in Silivri
[03:27:01] is 2,500 liras. Think about it, we're talking about
[03:27:05] a fair trial, you're going to go, represent
[03:27:08] yourself at the trial, give your statement there,
[03:27:11] or ask questions to other defendants.
[03:27:14] You go 4 days a week, so you need to spend
[03:27:17] 10,000 to 12,000 liras a week
[03:27:21] just to attend a trial. This is truly unacceptable,
[03:27:24] and the situation is clear, we haven't even reached the end of 2026 yet. There's a nearly
[03:27:27] 50% increase every year, but we don't see
[03:27:31] a 50% increase in retirement pensions, minimum
[03:27:34] wages, or other earnings. We saw the same
[03:27:37] thing with rents. And now,
[03:27:41] today, an operation was carried out against fruit and vegetable sellers, wasn't it?
[03:27:45] An operation was launched regarding exorbitant prices for fruit and vegetables after complaints.
[03:27:48] Of course, whoever is guilty, whoever is responsible, can be prosecuted,
[03:27:52] and they can serve their sentence whatever it may be. But
[03:27:55] is only the fruit and vegetable seller at the market guilty, or
[03:27:59] is the producer guilty, who is trying to produce with this diesel and
[03:28:02] these fertilizer prices, and despite all this, is trying to make
[03:28:06] a profit of 3 or 5 liras?
[03:28:09] How will they do it? How will they produce with these
[03:28:13] prices? Look, diesel is indispensable for the villager,
[03:28:16] for the tradesman, indispensable for transportation. That 10-lira increase
[03:28:20] here in Istanbul will perhaps come to our table as 300
[03:28:23] liras, perhaps it will come as 1,000 liras
[03:28:27] in our other businesses, in our other indirect expenses.
[03:28:30] What did they used to say? "I always buy 50 liras worth." Now
[03:28:34] with 50 liras, you can't even smell the diesel, and even if the equivalent
[03:28:37] of 50 liras in today's inflation was 500 liras, you would still be ashamed
[03:28:41] to buy 500 liras worth of petrol for your car. When I pass by the gas station,
[03:28:45] I say, "Quickly, 1000, 100 liras." I'm ashamed to say it because it's gone in
[03:28:49] a second. We are talking about such an economy.
[03:28:52] What are we talking about as lawyers? Legal predictability.
[03:28:55] If you don't ensure legal predictability,
[03:28:58] if you take someone from their home in the early morning
[03:29:02] with a newspaper headline, if you conduct operations against poultry farmers one day,
[03:29:05] greengrocers another day, and oil producers another,
[03:29:09] and appoint trustees, then in a state
[03:29:12] of law, if people don't feel safe under the protection
[03:29:15] of the law, if the law is not working as it should,
[03:29:19] but instead is changed by daily
[03:29:21] practices, then these prices will be 500 liras, 600 liras,
[03:29:25] we cannot stop this. What are we talking about? A tight monetary policy, right?
[03:29:29] This is what Mehmet Şimşek announced, a situation where taxes are increased
[03:29:32] and the burden on the people is heavier. But
[03:29:36] while these continue, unlawful trials continue,
[03:29:40] injustice continues, detention is a last resort,
[03:29:43] we say, appointing a trustee is a last resort. You need
[03:29:47] to present concrete evidence, you need to find that this company is "really
[03:29:50] an element of crime, that its assets are being laundered or that this company
[03:29:54] was established with it," you need to say that so you can appoint a trustee. But
[03:29:57] without even taking statements,
[03:30:01] you're seizing companies, you open a file for people,
[03:30:05] "Oh, let's take them into investigation, let's proceed to prosecution. Sorry,
[03:30:09] we kept you in custody for 4 or 5 days, and then mistakenly imprisoned you for a month or two, you're acquitted," you say.
[03:30:13] In a situation where you cannot foresee anything, you can neither
[03:30:15] invest your money anywhere, nor is there a situation
[03:30:19] where you can get a return on your invested money.
[03:30:23] How will social consensus be formed, how will
[03:30:26] this economy change, and how will we enter the elections?
[03:30:30] I think that has been abandoned as well, because of the Üsküdar election, as
[03:30:34] Mr. Şükrü said earlier. Which AK Party member, which
[03:30:38] Nationalist Movement Party member, would say, "Oh, good, we won this"?
[03:30:42] "How nice that we won, and the national will found its expression."
[03:30:45] Would someone with an average intelligence level who can
[03:30:48] comprehend and interpret events really say that? Now, since
[03:30:52] the situation is like this,
[03:30:56] come to Mr. Ercüment again, because your sentence was
[03:31:00] left unfinished a moment ago. Now, from this point forward, is there
[03:31:03] any citizen who believes that food prices will decrease and purchasing
[03:31:07] power will normalize, not increase?
[03:31:11] Let's listen to what a citizen says today.
[03:31:14] Let's play
[03:31:17] his voice. There's been a price hike, friend. Today we filled our tank again for 4 liras.
[03:31:20] God willing, what's going to happen with this? Price hike on everything, price hike on everything.
[03:31:24] They should find a solution to this. I can't go to the market,
[03:31:27] we can't go shopping. Diesel, diesel
[03:31:31] means price hike on everything. We're fed up, enough is enough.
[03:31:34] I can't go to the market, I can't go to the bazaar. Price hike on diesel means price hike
[03:31:38] on everything. So, do you think a citizen, from this point
[03:31:41] power will increase,
[03:31:45] or that food prices, to take the simplest example, will decrease?
[03:31:48] Do you have such a belief? No.
[03:31:52] Nobody does. How could they? Look, today,
[03:31:55] when I was coming here, my wife told me, she wrote it down.
[03:31:58] I went and bought it, believe me, it's an ordinary market, not luxury
[03:32:02] or anything, I'm being honest. 1 kg of minced
[03:32:05] meat and 600 grams of sautéed
[03:32:09] meat cost 2044
[03:32:11] liras. 2044 liras for
[03:32:14] minced meat and sautéed meat, 600 grams of sautéed meat and 1
[03:32:18] kg of minced meat. You go to the market,
[03:32:21] as I said earlier, you're faced with a terrible situation,
[03:32:24] and the minimum wage and purchasing power are clear.
[03:32:27] The government, while it should really
[03:32:30] be dealing with these issues,
[03:32:34] does not convince us about its goal in this regard.
[03:32:38] That's why I insist, there is no country in the world
[03:32:41] that has a policy of fighting chronic inflation.
[03:32:45] Look, not inflation itself, but fighting inflation.
[03:32:48] At most, this takes two years and then it's over. But
[03:32:51] Turkey has been fighting inflation for almost 10
[03:32:54] years, because the system is wrong.
[03:32:57] Look, they said, "Give us the authority, and you'll see the impact." At that time, inflation
[03:33:01] was 15%, and it was even considered high.
[03:33:05] Exchange rates were around 4 liras,
[03:33:08] and interest was at 9%. Today, Mr. Hoca is gone.
[03:33:11] That is, 20 liras of every 100
[03:33:15] liras of tax go to interest. You are the world
[03:33:18] champion in inflation. Food inflation.
[03:33:22] It's impossible to understand how Turkey can be the champion
[03:33:26] in food inflation. In August, Ms. Sinema,
[03:33:28] in August, inflation was at zero levels.
[03:33:31] It's always like that in Turkey, because vegetables and fruits are most abundant
[03:33:35] in June, it comes out like that. Uh, Mr. Şükü,
[03:33:38] how is it that June inflation comes out as zero, and then
[03:33:42] in July things happen? That's due to the wage policy,
[03:33:45] but inflation is around 2%, approaching
[03:33:49] 2%. This is a very high rate.
[03:33:52] Why? Because you are not following the right policies.
[03:33:56] Mr. Ertunç said it, you used to carry out
[03:33:59] operations against hoarders, against gas station owners. Now
[03:34:03] it's about, "Oh, from the field to here,
[03:34:06] the price is like this, it forms like that." How does
[03:34:09] it form? Why did it form today, or did it
[03:34:12] form suddenly today? You are governing the country.
[03:34:16] This is an economic situation. This requires economic
[03:34:19] decisions. It cannot be prevented by police
[03:34:23] measures, really, Ms. Sinema. There is a malfunction here.
[03:34:27] You should prevent this. This is
[03:34:30] your priority. Being the government,
[03:34:34] you need to ensure that there is a truly healthy
[03:34:38] pricing policy for products reaching
[03:34:41] citizens from the field. This won't happen with police measures, it happens with the economic
[03:34:44] decisions you make, with the
[03:34:47] framework of regulations you adopt. But there's
[03:34:51] no such intention. I sincerely believe this now. That is, the government
[03:34:54] does not prioritize the economy, or restoring the economy. This is a choice,
[03:34:58] you mean this is a choice now? Is this an economic policy?
[03:35:07] It moved away from the victims, from the poor,
[03:35:10] and now it represents other groups.
[03:35:13] Therefore, in this country, the share of national
[03:35:17] income received by workers
[03:35:20] and the poor has shifted almost 10
[03:35:23] points in favor of
[03:35:25] the wealthy in the last 10 years.
[03:35:28] Look, I am making a truly bold statement.
[03:35:31] In Turkey,
[03:35:39] a party that came to power saying it would eliminate poverty and destitution. I no longer believe
[03:35:43] that this, especially the inflation policy,
[03:35:47] is like this: "When this happens, our tax revenues are higher,
[03:35:50] so the state doesn't need to save,
[03:35:54] the state can spend more, and
[03:35:57] then our spending power increases." I think
[03:36:01] they look at it that way. I'm not an economist, but I repeat,
[03:36:05] we've become somewhat familiar with economics, or we've received some
[03:36:08] education in it at university. It's not possible,
[03:36:11] such a long-term fight against inflation is not possible.
[03:36:14] Sinema, it's not possible. And look at the success,
[03:36:18] 32%. Argentina reduced
[03:36:21] its inflation from 250% to 30% in 2 years.
[03:36:24] I guess, then, the fight against inflation... Excuse me for interrupting, but you
[03:36:28] say that you can't fight for so long. Is the long duration of the fight
[03:36:31] against inflation entirely the government's
[03:36:35] choice and policy, or is it an outcome of the political
[03:36:39] climate we're in? Is it a mandatory
[03:36:42] outcome of what's happening?
[03:36:45] Look, if you intend to reduce inflation,
[03:36:48] you would ensure that Turkey rises to the top ranks
[03:36:52] in terms of the rule of law. You would demonstrate
[03:36:54] democratic maturity, you would eliminate the pressure
[03:36:58] on the opposition and the media. You would grant the opposition
[03:37:02] the same freedom as yourself. If you don't do these things,
[03:37:05] you cannot prevent inflation. It won't happen with police measures,
[03:37:09] Ms. Sinema, because you are not a country
[03:37:12] governed by a dictatorship. Even those countries
[03:37:15] make very different calculations when making
[03:37:19] economic decisions. Look, today,
[03:37:22] 23 medium-term programs
[03:37:25] have been announced, Ms. Sinema. What was the inflation target
[03:37:29] for 3 years later when it was first announced in 2005?
[03:37:32] 5%. That is, in 2025,
[03:37:36] in 2005, in 2008, inflation was
[03:37:40] supposed to be 5% in 2008. And
[03:37:44] today, in the medium-term program for one year
[03:37:47] later, there's a 12% discrepancy
[03:37:50] in your inflation calculation. This is too much,
[03:37:53] really, this is too much. Especially if you have
[03:37:57] appointed an expert in this field
[03:38:00] who claims to be following a rational policy – let's name
[03:38:03] him, Mehmet Şimşek – and despite this, these issues are still
[03:38:06] at 32%, and you're saying, "Oh, how nice,
[03:38:09] inflation is finally
[03:38:12] falling." Let's also not forget, Ms. Sinema, that Mr. President
[03:38:16] says the same thing every year: "Turkey's star
[03:38:20] is shining, we are doing these things with qualified
[03:38:22] personnel, with capable people. Our medium-term program
[03:38:26] is strong, the measures we have taken are strong.
[03:38:30] You will see, Turkey will be a shining country."
[03:38:34] But the people's star has never shone, nor has Turkey's,
[03:38:37] and it won't shine with this inflation. But the reason
[03:38:40] is related to this law you apply,
[03:38:44] to political life, to the independence
[03:38:47] of institutions, to the decisions
[03:38:51] concerning the central bank. If you insist on changing
[03:38:54] the central bank president every year, Ms. Sinema, it won't work.
[03:38:58] You cannot convince us that you are fighting
[03:39:00] inflation. That is, if you say you don't
[03:39:03] know about interest rate policy, how it should be, and
[03:39:07] for this reason you change ministers, and change central
[03:39:11] bank policies, it won't work. This is just an indication
[03:39:15] that you don't want to prevent
[03:39:17] inflation. More impoverishment.
[03:39:19] I guess it's thought that as
[03:39:22] poverty increases, the education level probably
[03:39:25] drops, and then those who vote for us
[03:39:29] increase, because they had such a thesis, you know.
[03:39:32] As the education level drops, the group
[03:39:36] deputy leaders said, "Those who vote for us are increasing." But they don't realize
[03:39:40] that the world is not Turkey 20 years ago,
[03:39:43] nor is it Turkey 50 years ago. People,
[03:39:47] one way or another, learn from their daily
[03:39:50] lives, from their daily experiences. You can silence
[03:39:54] the media as much as you want, silence the opposition. People go
[03:39:57] to the market every day, to the greengrocer, to the supermarket,
[03:40:01] and there they face reality.
[03:40:05] Now, these price hikes, Ercüment Akdeniz, have become
[03:40:08] a fundamental economic indicator that determines all pricing
[03:40:12] behaviors. That is, transportation,
[03:40:16] production costs. What kind of situation are citizens
[03:40:19] facing now? Even if we assume that the elections will be held
[03:40:23] on time, the government still has expectations of being able
[03:40:27] to fix the economy. The OVP was announced the other day,
[03:40:30] and there were some discrepancies, or rather, updates.
[03:40:34] But now, it's clear that things won't go as planned,
[03:40:38] whether due to this, or that, or geopolitical developments,
[03:40:41] or internal political unpredictability.
[03:40:44] With what kind of preparation, in terms of economy,
[03:40:48] will the government enter the election climate?
[03:40:52] Exactly. Now, prices will increase for everything,
[03:40:55] and it will be severe. That's very
[03:40:58] clear. And will it stop at 100 liras? Will diesel stop? Yes, how far
[03:41:02] will it go? Until the elections, these are cumulative price hikes.
[03:41:05] This means, if it is thought,
[03:41:09] "Oh, we have allocated a certain budget, it's also in the OVP,
[03:41:13] we will do some work on pensions and minimum wages just before the elections,"
[03:41:17] this is what is
[03:41:19] being done now, and the price hikes that will come until then
[03:41:22] will wipe it out. That's over, that's in the past. It's not
[03:41:26] easy. The government's job is really difficult
[03:41:30] in this regard. But if we ask if this is a choice, a mistake,
[03:41:33] or incompetence, I think it's a choice. There's
[03:41:37] a segment of 8-10 million people in Turkey. If you have
[03:41:41] money, if you have financial power, if you make money from money, you're not affected by anything.
[03:41:44] The rich get richer. But the base is crumbling,
[03:41:47] the majority is crumbling. When I hear diesel, the villager immediately comes
[03:41:51] to mind, the producing villager. If agriculture and animal husbandry
[03:41:55] go away, how will you ensure resilience
[03:41:58] during wartime, during periods of global conflict,
[03:42:01] crisis periods, pandemic periods? You're
[03:42:05] not a self-sufficient agricultural country. How will you ensure
[03:42:09] this? From that perspective, the situation is really
[03:42:12] not good. Now I remember the pandemic.
[03:42:16] It ravaged the whole world, and it ravaged the economy.
[03:42:20] It provided 1.4 or 1.7 trillion dollars in subsidies
[03:42:23] to its citizens, wage
[03:42:26] support. They can't work, so they don't starve, health
[03:42:29] services, etc., etc. Now, for example,
[03:42:32] we say there is an oil crisis, there is the Strait of Hormuz,
[03:42:36] now Yemen has been added. Now, the economy is fragile, okay.
[03:42:40] You have reduced industry, manufacturing, you say your services
[03:42:43] sector is strong. Excuse me, in times like these,
[03:42:47] the services sector won't save you. If your industry is not strong,
[03:42:50] if your employment is not strong, it won't save you. But
[03:42:53] what are you giving to your citizens during this period of hunger,
[03:42:56] poverty, and price hikes? What kind of subsidy are you giving?
[03:43:00] There was a sliding scale to balance it, yes,
[03:43:03] at least from taxes. Yes, maybe a regulation could be made in terms of taxes?
[03:43:07] I mean, with the situation like this, with the figures like this,
[03:43:10] the fact that these taxes will remain
[03:43:14] in force... They couldn't do that, it's over. That story is over.
[03:43:17] They removed it, they removed the protection measure. Now, the entire bill, the entire bitter
[03:43:21] pill, is on the shoulders of the citizens, the villagers, the workers,
[03:43:24] the retirees. I will conclude with this. Look,
[03:43:28] we are not the same as Syria, right? Syria
[03:43:31] came out of a civil war. As a journalist who has interviewed Syrians for years,
[03:43:35] I know very well. They returned.
[03:43:38] I still meet with them, I do interviews. We are not the same. There's no infrastructure,
[03:43:42] the economy is clearly not what they say it is.
[03:43:45] There is hunger, 70% of the country is hungry,
[03:43:48] etc. A 40%
[03:43:51] price hike on petrol
[03:43:54] there, and the people are protesting. So, can't
[03:43:57] we be as good as Syria? I'm asking this.
[03:44:01] That is, the citizen should also ask themselves.
[03:44:04] I absolutely don't want to make a comparison. Turkey is a more modern
[03:44:07] country. Capitalism in Turkey is much more advanced.
[03:44:11] The tradition of trade union and democratic struggle in Turkey
[03:44:14] is very strong. That is, the leftist tradition is very strong, the struggle
[03:44:18] to gain labor rights is very strong. It can't even be compared with Syria
[03:44:21] or Middle Eastern countries. But how many waves of price hikes is this,
[03:44:25] how many price hike frenzies? Then the citizen will ask themselves
[03:44:28] or look at their own history, what did we do in such
[03:44:32] periods of price hikes, what would the trade unions do?
[03:44:36] Now, the villagers are crying, that is, they are rebelling against diesel.
[03:44:39] What is the chamber of agriculture doing? What are the producer
[03:44:43] peasant unions doing? Workers are suffering, what are the trade union
[03:44:47] confederations doing? No one should be offended, but the citizen
[03:44:51] should prick themselves. That is,
[03:44:54] without unity, without seeking rights, without pressure
[03:44:57] from below, no one gives rights from above.
[03:45:01] That's where it has come to, unfortunately. That is, if
[03:45:04] we vote for this party, that party will save us. Parties are important,
[03:45:08] elections are important, of course, this is important, yes,
[03:45:11] of course it's important. But in Turkey's tradition,
[03:45:14] there has always been a democratic struggle from below,
[03:45:18] a trade union struggle from below, a struggle of workers from below.
[03:45:22] This struggle gains a little more bread,
[03:45:26] expands the democratic space a little more. It makes freedom
[03:45:29] free, develops trade union freedoms. If this is missing,
[03:45:33] no one from above will give anyone anything proper, no offense.
[03:45:36] So, here, elections
[03:45:40] are important, but the citizen should draw conclusions
[03:45:43] for themselves from a situation that is only focused on elections.
[03:45:46] In the past, there was a labor platform, there was a "no to privatization" platform.
[03:45:50] Look, we're talking about highways and bridges now.
[03:45:52] Is there a platform fighting against privatization?
[03:45:56] Why isn't there? There used to be. It could be done 20
[03:45:59] years ago. It could be said, "There's a lot of pressure, there's a more authoritarian system now,
[03:46:03] there's this..." But these are not excuses. There were these before, in the 90s,
[03:46:06] in the 1980 military coup. How did this country emerge
[03:46:10] in 1986, 1987? It emerged with student
[03:46:13] protests and worker protests. That's how freedoms were gained.
[03:46:17] How did the AKP come to power? Let's remember that too.
[03:46:19] I remember. How did the DSP-MHP-Anap coalition
[03:46:23] fall? Hundreds of thousands were in the streets
[03:46:26] protesting price hikes. They were protesting that.
[03:46:29] That's how change came. Now, without something
[03:46:33] like this, no rights can be sought, no change can happen.
[03:46:37] It's also not right to put all the burden on political parties.
[03:46:40] Trade unions, people, citizens need to take
[03:46:43] on this responsibility. And the opposition, as a whole,
[03:46:47] I'm not making any party distinctions here, as a whole,
[03:46:50] it's not just about preparing for elections.
[03:46:54] These people's grievances need to be brought to the streets.
[03:46:57] They need channels where they can express their grievances
[03:47:00] and win their rights. I remember Poland, I always
[03:47:04] give it as an example. Lech Walesa
[03:47:07] was a trade unionist during the change of power,
[03:47:10] and he came to power with the strength from the factories, from the trade union
[03:47:14] movement. He brought about a great change there. He's a negative example,
[03:47:17] I don't agree with his ideas, but he still achieved
[03:47:20] this. That's how the world changes. Now,
[03:47:23] look, for example, we're having a discussion about autocrats
[03:47:27] and democrats, right? Özgür Bey's statement is a very
[03:47:31] accurate assessment, and Şükrü Bey also underlined
[03:47:34] that. Ertunç Bey said that if there is no law, no democracy,
[03:47:38] no justice, your economy will be like this. You will choose autocrats or
[03:47:41] democrats, and this is very true, but
[03:47:45] it also needs to be completed in this way: For example,
[03:47:48] AFD, what is AFD? It's the far-right in Germany,
[03:47:51] isn't it? Anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, etc., etc.
[03:47:55] We can list more. But it increases
[03:47:57] its support from workers
[03:48:00] or the poor. That is, autocrats can also increase
[03:48:04] it, that's what I'm trying to say. That's why it's not
[03:48:06] just about democracy, law, justice, but also about
[03:48:10] putting the struggle or the political perspective
[03:48:14] into the context of class struggle. That is, without winning the working
[03:48:17] classes, without gaining their support, change is difficult,
[03:48:21] I think. Tuğba Tekerek has been arrested, by the way.
[03:48:24] Journalist Tuğba Tekere, who was detained as part of the operation.
[03:48:27] She is a very valuable friend known by the entire
[03:48:30] press world. So, yes,
[03:48:34] Alper just conveyed it. Now, of course, none of us are lawyers
[03:48:38] or economists, naturally, like you. But
[03:48:41] how these increases will affect the September inflation rate
[03:48:45] and, of course, the year-end inflation rate.
[03:48:49] I wonder what the worst could happen is. The target won't be met again,
[03:48:53] it will be updated again, but how will the citizen
[03:48:55] uh, Actually, we can see the citizen's
[03:48:59] internalization in the enforcement offices. There are almost
[03:49:03] 30 million enforcement files.
[03:49:06] That is, one out of two people has an enforcement file.
[03:49:10] Enforcement has become so common that maybe you used to say, "I won't eat meat, I'll eat chicken,"
[03:49:13] right? Now you're losing your assets, you're losing
[03:49:17] the house you live in. We've reached that point,
[03:49:20] and we just talked about the inflation rate,
[03:49:24] it was calculated at 16%. There's an estimate that will be
[03:49:27] almost 100% wrong, right? There's a target. If you did this in a private
[03:49:31] company, a different sales and
[03:49:34] marketing specialist
[03:49:36] wouldn't be able to
[03:49:38] sit down and do this. This is the economy of a country, and we are getting
[03:49:42] salary increases based on this inflation rate from TÜİK,
[03:49:45] we're trying to execute. We're talking about a country's economy,
[03:49:49] but still, look, when we talked about
[03:49:53] Halk TV's advertising revenues earlier,
[03:49:56] you ask, "According to what criteria do you distribute
[03:49:59] these numbers?" Okay, don't give us this information
[03:50:03] as a trade secret, but what criterion do you take when you give
[03:50:06] millions of liras to a channel, and 1 lira to the most watched channel?
[03:50:10] You don't give it, there's no answer. Now, how does
[03:50:14] the targeted inflation of 16% become 32%?
[03:50:16] How can you not manage this inflation? Don't you
[03:50:20] want to make a statement about the mistakes in the legal system?
[03:50:24] How do you explain people saying, "I won't
[03:50:27] invest there without an arbitration board abroad, by setting
[03:50:31] an arbitration clause for a company coming from abroad when investing
[03:50:35] here, about this trustee issue? How will you answer these questions?
[03:50:38] As long as you don't settle these, whatever
[03:50:42] you say is meaningless. Really, there's no way out of this
[03:50:45] without law. Mr. Ercüment mentioned earlier
[03:50:49] about organizing, and about responding to these, but
[03:50:53] rest assured, there's a puppet show too. The journalists you mentioned earlier, every day
[03:50:57] we see a journalist being arrested and detained.
[03:51:00] Miners, in their protest, we know that unionists were arrested.
[03:51:04] And when these things happen, we're trying
[03:51:06] to fix the economy, but without law."
[03:51:47] Turkey's energy source
[03:51:51] Orbus.
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[03:52:02] Years of accumulation, the tradition of these lands.
[03:52:05] Turkey's bracelet is Koçak.
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[03:57:50] We're starting the last hour. I had taken
[03:57:52] the floor, and by the way, let me add this: According to the research of BESAR, the amount
[03:57:56] of expenditure a family of four needs to make
[03:57:59] monthly to be able to eat healthy, that is, the poverty
[03:58:02] line, has reached 50,000 liras.
[03:58:05] Uh, I apologize, the hunger line
[03:58:08] is 49,655 liras, and the poverty line
[03:58:11] is 124,339 liras. That
[03:58:15] is the situation.
[03:58:18] Ms. Sinem, I just wanted to say something, Mr. Ercüment.
[03:58:22] When you gave the number of enforcement
[03:58:25] files, 30 million, it's a terrible number, a very large
[03:58:29] number. I wondered what the number of files
[03:58:32] was in 2002. Mr. Ertunç gave it, I'm sorry.
[03:58:36] Ertunç Ercüment, the names are similar of course. Oh, sorry, Mr. Ertuğ,
[03:58:40] I apologize. Yes, in 2002, the population was 65
[03:58:43] million. The number of enforcement files, according to the Ministry
[03:58:46] of Justice data, was 8.6
[03:58:49] million, relative to the population.
[03:58:53] Around 13%. Look at the number of enforcement
[03:58:57] files. Today, the population is 87 million.
[03:59:00] The number of enforcement files is 30 million, about one third,
[03:59:04] 35%. That is, we are facing
[03:59:07] a terrible situation. I just wanted
[03:59:10] to convey that. Well, now,
[03:59:13] of course, we're talking about how the economy will improve,
[03:59:17] what kind of political climate we'll have before the elections, but actually, one of the places
[03:59:20] where the government and the opposition have clashed the most
[03:59:23] recently is the municipal councils. Before we get to that, uh, it just occurred
[03:59:27] to me, we had a story about finding oil in Gabar. Actually,
[03:59:31] today, while we're talking about three-digit numbers,
[03:59:35] uh, and the price per liter of fuel, we actually
[03:59:39] had very hopeful days. They weren't bad. Let's listen
[03:59:42] and remember. Those were good days, weren't they? Let's remember.
[03:59:45] Those were good days, weren't they? Let's remember. Those were good days, weren't they? Of course.
[03:59:49] mi hatırlayalım ya güzel günlerdi o günler değil mi tabii.