HALKTV — Bilge Yurtdagulen ile Gundem Ozel
20260915 210000 UTC
4016 transcript segments
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[00:00:01] days. Let's listen, let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
[00:00:05] Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
[00:00:08] Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
[00:00:12] Let's remember, those were good days, weren't they?
[00:00:15] Let's remember,
[00:00:16] right?
[00:00:20] Friends,
[00:00:27] look, esteemed council members. We all
[00:00:30] have families. Allah makes a servant rich,
[00:00:34] and poor, He can bring them down and lift them up.
[00:00:37] Mocking someone's situation, making fun of them, trying
[00:00:41] to belittle someone, asking "where is your wife, where is your husband?"
[00:00:44] is not fitting for a human, it's shameful, it's immoral,
[00:00:48] it's immoral. What do you mean "where is your husband?"
[00:00:51] Who are you to ask such a question? Friends,
[00:00:55] friends, as the Deputy Mayor of the Metropolitan
[00:00:58] Municipality... While managing
[00:01:02] this council from this podium, I do not find it
[00:01:05] ethical or correct for a woman
[00:01:08] to speak to another woman in this way,
[00:01:11] or to ask such a question in 2026.
[00:01:13] I apologize to all women,
[00:01:16] as the Deputy Mayor, as the Deputy Mayor of Istanbul Metropolitan
[00:01:20] Municipality. I wish it hadn't happened,
[00:01:23] but I'm very sad,
[00:01:25] friends. Can we restart, dear
[00:01:28] Murat?
[00:01:50] Why is she asking? What does it have to do with her husband or wife? What does she mean
[00:01:53] by "where is your husband?" What kind of level is this? Ekrem
[00:01:57] İmamoğlu was acquitted twice in a case. He was penalized
[00:02:00] for saying "discourteous." This is not something that should be shoved in our faces
[00:02:04] so much in this country. A municipal council member comes out and asks another municipal council
[00:02:08] member, "where is your husband?" Can something like this happen?
[00:02:11] Do we have to witness this?
[00:02:15] You know, we used to say,
[00:02:18] "manners, please!"
[00:02:22] She says "where is your husband?" I don't even understand why she said it, but I understood
[00:02:26] from Nuri Bey's words that anything can happen to
[00:02:29] a person in life, they might have separated
[00:02:32] from their spouse, even if they separated,
[00:02:35] even if they didn't, what's it to you?
[00:02:38] What kind of impoliteness is this? What kind of thing is this?
[00:02:42] It's unbelievable. A municipal council member is shouting "where is your husband?" to another
[00:02:45] municipal council member.
[00:02:48] Ms. Sinem, do you know what's even more regrettable?
[00:02:51] What we've been talking about, look, if a municipal
[00:02:55] council member from the AK Party
[00:02:59] had said the same words to a woman,
[00:03:02] believe me, all the spokespeople of the government today would not have said
[00:03:06] anything, not even Mr. Şükrü. No, no,
[00:03:09] no, of course,
[00:03:13] it's not acceptable, she shouldn't have said it, but if she had said it,
[00:03:16] all the spokespeople of the government today,
[00:03:19] from top to bottom, all of them would have made
[00:03:23] the harshest statements, and most likely an investigation
[00:03:26] would have been launched regarding that municipal council
[00:03:30] member. So, the municipal council, which is the highest
[00:03:34] authority in Istanbul, where 16 million people live,
[00:03:37] where investments worth millions of liras are decided,
[00:03:41] like everyone else, when I and where all kinds of issues related to municipalities are discussed,
[00:03:44] is where these 16 million people, regardless of their party,
[00:03:47] elected these people to represent them, to make decisions concerning
[00:03:51] them while they live in their city. But you ask,
[00:03:55] "where is your husband? Where is your wife?" These questions really
[00:03:58] lower the level
[00:04:01] to such an extent. It's an insult who elected you there. She's raising
[00:04:05] her hand like this, pointing her finger, "your husband is where my husband is."
[00:04:09] What is this? I'm on screen, so I'm really trying
[00:04:13] to restrain myself, but as you said, the first people
[00:04:16] to condemn this should be the AK Party council members,
[00:04:20] above all else. We all say that family
[00:04:23] is sacred. It's above politics,
[00:04:27] it's above business. Making such accusations
[00:04:31] about anyone's family, especially in a council where such decisions
[00:04:34] are made, is truly unacceptable. Moreover,
[00:04:38] as Mr. Şükrü just said, if it were the opposite scenario,
[00:04:42] we would be talking about completely different things. Perhaps an investigation,
[00:04:46] an arrest, all channels would be saying this and that.
[00:04:49] Look, maybe no one else is talking about this right now,
[00:04:53] and we're talking about a great shame committed by a lady
[00:05:12] Friends,
[00:05:18] look, esteemed council members. We all
[00:05:21] have families. Allah makes a servant rich,
[00:05:24] and poor, He can bring them down and lift them up.
[00:05:28] Mocking someone's situation, making fun of them, trying
[00:05:32] to belittle someone, asking "where is your wife, where is your husband?"
[00:05:35] is not fitting for a human, it's shameful, it's immoral,
[00:05:39] it's immoral. What do you mean "where is your husband?"
[00:05:42] Who are you to ask such a question? Friends,
[00:05:45] friends, as the Deputy Mayor of the Metropolitan
[00:05:49] Municipality, from this podium,
[00:05:51] yes,
[00:05:55] she says she would say it again if it happened again.
[00:05:57] The woman
[00:06:01] who was shown, the council member who was insulted,
[00:06:04] is indeed an attorney,
[00:06:07] and the one who said it, Özden Bilgiş, is an AK Party
[00:06:10] IMM council member. But the one shown in the video,
[00:06:14] our colleague, the lawyer who was insulted,
[00:06:18] is Tuğba Çalık. The one who said "where is your husband?"
[00:06:21] is Özden Bilgiş, and the one who was insulted
[00:06:25] is Tuğba Çalık. So Tuğba Hanım was the one who was insulted.
[00:06:28] Yes, Tuğba Hanım. Okay, I understand.
[00:06:31] Yes. Were you going to say something?
[00:06:34] As I said, no matter what position
[00:06:38] you hold, no matter where you are elected, I don't think
[00:06:41] anyone has the right to ask such a question, either
[00:06:45] in politics or in humanity. First and foremost,
[00:06:49] I repeat, I think AK Party and Nationalist Movement Party
[00:06:52] members should condemn this, because politics should not
[00:06:56] stoop so low, so beneath
[00:06:59] the ground, in my opinion.
[00:07:02] Mr. Ercüment, you remained silent, but the issue here is not
[00:07:06] a woman yelling at another woman, it presents a general
[00:07:09] picture. I mean, this municipal council...
[00:07:13] We saw it, where did we first
[00:07:16] see it? Before Üsküdar changed, in that municipality,
[00:07:19] the council fight. Özgür Çelik on one side, AK Party members
[00:07:23] on the other. He's yelling at her, "come here, journalist! Come, come this way!"
[00:07:26] He's telling our Gamze, "council
[00:07:29] members, come, come here, speak here," and so on. What kind
[00:07:32] of tone, what kind of style is this? Is it worth it for a municipal
[00:07:36] council membership? I mean, you'd think
[00:07:40] he's going to be the President of the United States. What
[00:07:43] are you trying to share as a municipal council member? I don't understand. Isn't it a very
[00:07:47] strange level, Ercüment Bey? There is such
[00:07:50] a shameful situation, but I watched it many
[00:07:53] times to understand why this happened, how they argued.
[00:07:57] Now that you've shown it, I've watched it again. The people in the video,
[00:08:01] what I saw was that the group
[00:08:05] deputy chairman of the IMM is blushing,
[00:08:08] I mean, his face is red. He's blushing.
[00:08:13] Because he's presiding over the session, because he's ashamed
[00:08:16] of the situation. He's showing a humane attitude,
[00:08:19] I think. He's also showing a mature attitude and
[00:08:23] apologizing on behalf of the entire council because the people of Istanbul
[00:08:27] are watching. He takes it upon himself. He shows this virtue.
[00:08:30] Normally, if this happened in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey,
[00:08:33] or I'm trying to understand the picture from there,
[00:08:36] let's compare it to that. There are group spokespersons for the parties,
[00:08:39] right? Let's say something individual happened, they argued. Something unpleasant
[00:08:43] happened, tempers flared. They would come together, consult,
[00:08:47] and calm the situation with joint or mutual statements,
[00:08:50] apologizing together. This issue would be over. But there's
[00:08:54] no such attitude, no such maturity. If it happened again, she would say it again. This
[00:08:58] shows a power intoxication, this is power intoxication.
[00:09:01] I am powerful, I can do whatever I want. She did it, she showed
[00:09:05] that power, she did it. If others are not making statements,
[00:09:08] if no statements are coming from the AK Party or MHP,
[00:09:12] it creates a picture like, "if
[00:09:15] the power is ours, anyone can do whatever they want." That's the worst
[00:09:19] part. They should be examples for children, examples for children in Istanbul.
[00:09:22] Schools have started, so let's move past everything. And
[00:09:26] it really bothers one, I'm trying
[00:09:30] to understand it. Why should a woman
[00:09:34] be remembered or criticized
[00:09:36] by her husband? From the woman's
[00:09:38] side. This is also a terrible
[00:09:41] thing. I'm thinking, is this one of the
[00:09:45] consequences of our withdrawal from the Istanbul Convention?
[00:09:49] It comes to mind, you know. But it's a very
[00:09:52] bad situation. The issue is actually more than a debate
[00:09:55] in the municipal council, it's about the state
[00:09:58] of the political arena, I don't want to say political climate all the time.
[00:10:02] We need to talk about the current state of affairs.
[00:10:06] We're going into an election in such a harsh
[00:10:09] environment. One says, "where's your husband?"
[00:10:13] Another says, "come here." Another says, "whatnot."
[00:10:16] I mean, I haven't heard such
[00:10:18] language from the head of state, a municipal council
[00:10:22] member, I mean, I haven't heard such things from Erdoğan
[00:10:25] like "where is your wife, where is your husband?" I mean, in the past,
[00:10:29] Mr. President had some words that we criticized,
[00:10:32] but one would think he's the president, he has
[00:10:36] such power, but he asks "where is your husband?" I mean,
[00:10:39] we're going into an election in such an atmosphere, and in such
[00:10:43] an atmosphere, we're really expecting the economy to improve.
[00:10:46] For example, we can connect it to that again, maybe it's
[00:10:50] a small complaint, but as I said, Ekrem İmamoğlu
[00:10:52] receives a penalty for calling the Tuzla mayor
[00:10:56] "discourteous." He receives
[00:10:59] a penalty in a case where he was acquitted twice, but after the case
[00:11:03] was reversed and the judge was changed, he received
[00:11:07] a penalty. Saying he received a penalty
[00:11:11] already reveals it. Please. Really,
[00:11:14] I think no one should
[00:11:17] say that these matters have nothing to do with the judiciary,
[00:11:21] and I think the number of people who say that is very limited
[00:11:24] now. These decisions truly
[00:11:27] deal a powerful blow
[00:11:28] to the country's
[00:11:32] democracy, legitimacy,
[00:11:35] and the legitimacy of the governments. Therefore, you cannot
[00:11:39] prevent the high cost of living, because with
[00:11:42] this decision, you are showing
[00:11:45] that you cannot
[00:11:47] politically compete
[00:11:50] with the opposition circles
[00:11:53] or cadres, I cannot. But
[00:11:56] then I will remove them
[00:11:58] from the game,
[00:12:01] I will remove them from the game
[00:12:04] by using state power.
[00:12:07] But again, I repeat, we are not
[00:12:11] living a thousand years ago. All the developments from an hour
[00:12:15] ago, I believe, can now be heard even in the remotest
[00:12:18] corners of Turkey, they are heard.
[00:12:22] The people see. I trust this the most.
[00:12:25] Today, you will say about Ekrem
[00:12:29] İmamoğlu's case that
[00:12:33] he already had 13 cases, the judge changed 19
[00:12:36] times. In the
[00:12:39] "idiot" case, he was given the maximum
[00:12:43] penalty for insult, which is unprecedented in the history of the Republic.
[00:12:47] This time, even above what the prosecutor requested,
[00:12:50] and in a single session, the new judge
[00:12:54] again gave the maximum penalty. He gave a penalty
[00:12:58] above what the prosecutor requested, a maximum penalty.
[00:13:01] I mean, this
[00:13:04] truly became a very
[00:13:07] concrete example for everyone,
[00:13:11] especially those who say these cases are not political.
[00:13:14] In a very negative sense, for our country,
[00:13:18] it created very strong negative examples.
[00:13:21] So, if
[00:13:24] you think you can win elections
[00:13:28] by pushing politicians you couldn't
[00:13:31] defeat at the ballot box out of the game in this way, I think
[00:13:35] the council members have become the brightest
[00:13:39] political actors of the last period. In the part where you weren't on air,
[00:13:42] we talked about Tahsin Usta, the CHP council member
[00:13:46] who switched to the AK Party, saying, "they offered me the deputy mayoralty,
[00:13:49] so I switched." So, we are in an
[00:13:52] environment where even municipal council members have become
[00:13:56] political actors. We are in such
[00:13:59] an atmosphere. So he says, "they offered me the deputy mayoralty,
[00:14:03] and I believed I could serve, so I switched."
[00:14:07] What did we see in nullity? The wills were corrupted
[00:14:10] there, I mean, the delegates' will was corrupted there.
[00:14:13] And now you are also putting on the badge
[00:14:17] of another party with the promise of a political
[00:14:21] office. What does that become then? Yes.
[00:14:33] Perhaps you would like to evaluate it from this perspective. No, you are very right, but
[00:14:36] I would like to recall a statement by Mr. President:
[00:14:39] "The greatest corruption is disrespect
[00:14:42] for the national will." So today, really,
[00:14:46] I think the number of those who have been transferred
[00:14:50] to the AK Party, or
[00:14:53] removed from their posts, or arrested,
[00:14:56] or who have switched to another party
[00:15:00] with their votes in the municipal councils,
[00:15:03] there are
[00:15:05] municipalities. If you add all of them up,
[00:15:09] the will shown by more than 50% of the voters
[00:15:12] on March 31, 2024,
[00:15:16] is not in the same place. I think this is not
[00:15:19] a commendable situation for the AK Party.
[00:15:22] On the contrary,
[00:15:25] their own voters also feel that elections should
[00:15:29] not be won this way. As I said earlier,
[00:15:32] when we were talking today, it's a very hot,
[00:15:35] really thought-provoking thing. I think AK Party members should think
[00:15:39] more about this. There's no need to go to the polls to win
[00:15:42] a mayoralty anymore. Four transfers, three
[00:15:46] detentions, two arrests. I mean, targeting municipal council
[00:15:49] members. I think this rhetoric itself
[00:15:53] is a very bad example for
[00:15:56] the AK Party government, a party whose name means
[00:15:59] justice, during its 25-year
[00:16:02] rule. These negative views towards
[00:16:05] the AK Party are increasing.
[00:16:09] The undecided AK Party voters
[00:16:12] you showed in the first part, who might
[00:16:15] vote for another party,
[00:16:18] Ms. Senem, it's very important. Look,
[00:16:22] we must accept that there will be no
[00:16:24] change in the AK Party's 20-25%
[00:16:27] voter base. A change
[00:16:30] in the voter behavior of those
[00:16:33] above that is expected. I always say this. The undecided
[00:16:36] voters you mentioned, who say they might vote
[00:16:40] for another party, were 10% and how much?
[00:16:43] 24. 24. So, a group
[00:16:47] close to 35% of the voters,
[00:16:50] almost 20% of them,
[00:16:53] is a very high percentage. So, their own voters are abandoning
[00:16:57] them. I remember saying this in your broadcasts
[00:17:01] as well, especially in provinces with conservative
[00:17:03] voters, besides the high cost of living,
[00:17:07] this double standard in justice is seen as
[00:17:11] very contrary to the understanding of people
[00:17:14] who believe in the justice of Omar. Therefore,
[00:17:17] they are reacting by saying, "these things are happening with our
[00:17:20] votes, people are being imprisoned, there are unfair, unlawful
[00:17:24] arrests." And I tell you,
[00:17:28] especially these people are waiting
[00:17:31] to see what the new party will say.
[00:17:34] So, it seems that most of them will switch
[00:17:38] to that new party. My impression
[00:17:42] from Anatolia is that
[00:17:44] especially these people who have become alienated
[00:17:48] from the AK Party, these voters,
[00:17:50] are waiting to hear what the new party will say. Therefore,
[00:17:54] in the first part, you also talked a little bit about
[00:17:57] how I think the fluctuations in these
[00:18:01] polls will decrease as the new party
[00:18:04] explains itself more, because I strongly believe
[00:18:08] that the voters have already
[00:18:11] decided whom to send.
[00:18:15] Now they are looking at who should come,
[00:18:18] but the AK Party cannot
[00:18:21] make itself the government
[00:18:24] again in this way. This is something I always say,
[00:18:28] how much I've used this phrase, but I'm right.
[00:18:31] If it wants to come back to power,
[00:18:35] it should not suppress, but rather implement
[00:18:37] law, democracy, democratic maturity,
[00:18:41] make institutions independent, and strengthen the parliament.
[00:18:44] Then it will be stronger and luckier.
[00:18:47] Look, last year in September, 420
[00:18:51] liters of diesel could be bought with the minimum wage. This
[00:18:55] year, only 200 liters can be bought with the minimum wage.
[00:18:59] I mean, I'm sorry, 350 liters. So now
[00:19:03] if you calculate from this, next year, if
[00:19:06] it continues like this, 200 liters, yes, next year,
[00:19:10] if it continues at this pace, unfortunately, the trend shows
[00:19:13] that. Do you remember, I'm going to say something, one second,
[00:19:17] Mr. Şükrü, one second. When Mr. Özel was the CHP leader,
[00:19:21] before he left the CHP, in the group meeting, he showed
[00:19:24] 50 lira of gasoline to a citizen who said, "I always
[00:19:28] buy 50 lira worth of diesel." Shall we watch those images? Look,
[00:19:31] on that day, you could get this with 50 lira.
[00:19:35] To them.
[00:19:45] What did he say when they said there was a price hike? "It doesn't concern me, I always buy 50 lira worth." Here's 50 lira worth of diesel for you, here's 50 lira worth of diesel for you.
[00:19:47] Oh,
[00:19:50] the bottle is full. Now,
[00:19:53] it's half.
[00:19:56] He's probably laughing if he's watching now. So now,
[00:20:00] it's not even that, that's good. It was full, madam.
[00:20:04] You know Germany and England, who are jealous of us?
[00:20:07] The minimum wage earner there can buy 1200 liters,
[00:20:11] did you know? Yes. 1200
[00:20:14] liters. I'm looking, yes, currently
[00:20:17] 300 liters can be bought with the current minimum
[00:20:20] wage. So, of course,
[00:20:23] at this point, things have gotten out of control.
[00:20:27] Things are completely out of whack. It's not
[00:20:31] at a stage where it can be easily rectified. The government,
[00:20:35] as we understand it, is not attributing this
[00:20:38] solely to geopolitical risks and ongoing wars, but
[00:20:42] it's a fact that
[00:20:45] it has deepened more than ever before.
[00:20:49] But they were saying this in September, that a much more
[00:20:52] serious crisis would be faced. Our intention is not
[00:20:56] to paint a pessimistic picture here. We're trying
[00:20:59] to understand when
[00:21:02] the light at the end of the tunnel will appear,
[00:21:05] how these conditions can
[00:21:08] change in Turkey, how citizens' purchasing
[00:21:11] power can increase, and how inflation can be curbed,
[00:21:14] right? I mean, our goal is not to draw such a pessimistic
[00:21:18] picture here and say, "oh, we're finished, we're ruined," but to understand
[00:21:22] what will happen, where this is going. Please, Ercüment. Well,
[00:21:25] I said it in the previous part too, this country has seen a lot of difficulties.
[00:21:29] It saw the 1980 military coup, it saw the January 24
[00:21:32] decisions, it saw huge privatizations, it saw huge
[00:21:36] prohibitions. were closed, May 1st
[00:21:39] was forbidden. These were overcome, they can be overcome. It came out of that
[00:21:43] darkness. It didn't happen in a day or a year, but people fought,
[00:21:46] came together, reopened their unions,
[00:21:50] went to the streets, and liberated the spaces. So, there is no
[00:21:54] need to be pessimistic. To be hopeful,
[00:21:57] it's useful to look at our own history.
[00:22:00] The light at the end of the tunnel can be that.
[00:22:04] People need to trust their own strength a little. It's not the time
[00:22:06] to despair, to retreat into
[00:22:10] an atmosphere of fear and helplessness. And there's this: why
[00:22:13] so much pressure, I wonder?
[00:22:15] Where can this lead? Can it lead
[00:22:19] to a social explosion? If it's not organized,
[00:22:22] if it's not disciplined, if it doesn't have a democratic
[00:22:25] tradition, if it doesn't have a trade union tradition,
[00:22:29] it can emerge as indignant explosions. In quotation marks, I say,
[00:22:32] it can also emerge as more uncontrolled and more lumpen
[00:22:36] social movements, again in quotation marks. It would be a pity
[00:22:39] for the country, the country is not going
[00:22:41] in a good direction. That's why we need to
[00:22:45] act now, there is a need for a struggle approach
[00:22:49] where democratic, organized, union-backed parties
[00:22:52] also find strength there. I would like to say something
[00:22:56] about the graphics you showed in the previous
[00:22:59] section regarding the elections. I said
[00:23:02] it in one of the previous programs on Halk TV,
[00:23:05] that I am immune to these poll issues,
[00:23:09] they change a lot, and they will change even more.
[00:23:13] I mean, when I look at the operations, arrests,
[00:23:16] and access blocks of the last few days, I ask myself
[00:23:20] this: how do these polling companies conduct
[00:23:23] their surveys and publish their research?
[00:23:27] They called 2,000 people, they called 5,000 people.
[00:23:30] Can these people who were called easily say "I am voting
[00:23:33] for the opposition party" now, compared to a month
[00:23:36] ago, two months ago, three months ago? People are afraid. I think
[00:23:40] it doesn't reflect the truth much from that
[00:23:42] perspective either. No public research company's
[00:23:45] work, no poll, can truly be
[00:23:48] a reference we can vouch for.
[00:23:52] There's also this situation now: don't believe the polls,
[00:23:55] stay away from the polls. I always make this parenthesis:
[00:23:59] if you fall into a power intoxication thinking "we've got this,"
[00:24:03] the opposition will lose. They always need to take it seriously and work
[00:24:07] hard. This is a separate dimension, but I agree
[00:24:10] with Mr. Şükrü there. There's a perception for Erdoğan:
[00:24:14] how many elections has he won with his party? The citizen
[00:24:18] says, "you will kiss the arm you cannot bend."
[00:24:20] But all these municipal takeovers, changes of hands, transfers,
[00:24:24] was that arm bent? Can't he take it? Why is he doing this?
[00:24:28] I think this is not a good situation
[00:24:31] for the AK Party either. It's a situation that further
[00:24:35] diminishes its prestige towards the elections.
[00:24:38] I mean, even the economies of countries at war
[00:24:41] are not as bad
[00:24:44] as ours right now. So this is
[00:24:47] what's really bad. I mean, we looked
[00:24:50] the other day, in terms of food inflation, we're worse
[00:24:53] than Iran, which is at war, worse than fragmented
[00:24:57] Iraq. How can you be? The man is in pieces.
[00:25:00] There's also this, let me add something, Ms. Sinema, you reminded me well.
[00:25:04] So, what was Turkey's geopolitical foreign policy equation always
[00:25:07] like? It always paid attention to balances
[00:25:11] between the West, Eurasia, and the Middle East, trying to maintain good relations
[00:25:14] with everyone, one way or another, right? You have a trade volume
[00:25:18] with Iran,
[00:25:20] you have a certain energy supply from the Gulf,
[00:25:23] Russian natural gas, Ukrainian grain. Now it has entered
[00:25:27] such a situation, especially with the NATO summit,
[00:25:31] it has moved towards a single axis, and relations with Russia
[00:25:35] it's being shot, your situation with Iran isn't like before, now the Mecca
[00:25:39] tripartite summit has been held. So what will happen to Saudi
[00:25:41] Arabia? An interesting point was mentioned there, I don't know if it was
[00:25:45] necessary, I mean, like NATO's Article 5, if one of the three countries
[00:25:48] is attacked. All countries will be involved. Now Saudi
[00:25:52] Arabia is entering the Yemen War, withdrawing, asking for help from Israel. So what
[00:25:55] will Turkey do? So, these
[00:25:59] balances are also being shaken, these affecting the economy.
[00:26:02] I think they are affecting it more negatively. Yes, but sir, I mean, with the effect
[00:26:06] of the war, the Central Bank is burning 30 billion dollars,
[00:26:10] but Mr. Ekrem İmamoğlu's March 19 operation
[00:26:13] and afterwards burned 60 billion dollars. So,
[00:26:17] with such an effect in the war,
[00:26:21] we see 30 billion on the foreign front, but here, in a legal
[00:26:25] event, against an illegality, we are paying 60 billion.
[00:26:28] We are paying this with Mehmet Şimşek. Since he first
[00:26:32] came, with a tight monetary policy, for two years, he has been trying
[00:26:35] to bring it to a certain level. With the March
[00:26:39] 19 operation, perhaps you are going back two years.
[00:26:41] are affecting the economy.
[00:26:45] I think it affects it more negatively. Yes, but sir, with the effect
[00:26:49] of the war, the Central Bank
[00:26:52] burns 30 billion dollars,
[00:26:56] but Mr. Ekrem İmamoğlu's March 19 operation
[00:26:59] and afterwards burns 60 billion dollars. So,
[00:27:04] with such an effect in the war,
[00:27:08] we see 30 billion on the foreign front, but here, in a legal
[00:27:11] event, against an illegality, we are paying 60 billion.
[00:27:15] We are paying this with Mehmet Şimşek. Since he first came, with a tight monetary
[00:27:18] policy, for two years, he has been trying to bring it to a certain level. With the March
[00:27:22] 19 operation, perhaps you are going back
[00:27:26] two years. Now, that's ending. Perhaps you are saying
[00:27:29] we will try to fix that in 6-7 months, then the absolute nullification
[00:27:33] decision comes. I mean, as long as these continue,
[00:27:37] and now we are talking about law, predictability, law,
[00:27:39] there is a control mechanism. Now, we are talking about these taxes,
[00:27:43] right? For days, what's in the public eye? A guy from Van,
[00:27:47] a Van Haydar. No income is shown,
[00:27:50] no company exists, but there is a money
[00:27:53] transfer of 212 million. How are we auditing
[00:27:57] this? Let's skip the political part, the trials.
[00:28:01] And how are we doing the actual audit mechanism?
[00:28:05] While just 1-2% of Turkey is playing with
[00:28:08] millions, hundreds of millions, the other side
[00:28:11] is struggling with hunger. Are we auditing those hundreds
[00:28:14] of millions? Is it when the "above the sieve"
[00:28:18] section's source of money, and how these came to be,
[00:28:22] only appears on social media that we see it?
[00:28:25] I mean, if someone with the same income,
[00:28:29] the same ostentation, didn't use a social media
[00:28:32] account, and we didn't see these on social media,
[00:28:36] would these continue like this in the country? Will we audit them
[00:28:40] this way? With this audit, we can't
[00:28:43] prevent tax loss, we can't prevent tax
[00:28:46] evasion loss. We talk about opposition to the tax procedure
[00:28:50] law, about black money, but these can't
[00:28:53] be collected. While struggling, we suddenly say that
[00:28:57] the 20% VAT has been increased
[00:29:00] there, the overseas departure
[00:29:07] fee has been increased, and again, it's the minimum wage earner
[00:29:11] or someone trying to make a living with a normal wage who suffers.
[00:29:14] So, what we call law, fully, criminal law is a separate
[00:29:18] matter, but we also need to talk about public law, tax
[00:29:21] law. We need to make all of them work together
[00:29:24] in a healthy way so that this economy
[00:29:27] recovers and yields results in the future.
[00:29:30] But if we are in such an unmanageable
[00:29:34] situation both in terms of taxes
[00:29:38] and... then the outcome is that
[00:29:41] the situation gets worse. By the way, the Yeni Şafak
[00:29:44] newspaper, for a long time, has been
[00:29:47] against Şimşek. A prosecutor, Sayan,
[00:29:50] said today that AKP's prosecutor
[00:29:54] Sayan said, "Don't expect much
[00:29:58] from Mehmet Şimşek. His thing is to make the rich
[00:30:01] richer and the poor poorer." He said this is his style.
[00:30:05] Abou, I said. Abou, I said Yeni Şafak.
[00:30:08] His suggestion was always this: why do only companies
[00:30:12] pay taxes for foreign currency? Apply this to all citizens,
[00:30:15] individuals, citizens. I didn't take it very seriously
[00:30:19] in these media analyses, readings, etc., but they are very
[00:30:22] cornered, so I think they might consider these
[00:30:26] options, these possibilities.
[00:30:30] It's not impossible. I also want to contribute.
[00:30:33] When Mr. Ertürç mentioned it,
[00:30:36] I remembered. Look,
[00:30:39] after March 25th, or rather, after the March
[00:30:43] 19th coup, in the opposition's
[00:30:46] words, interest rates,
[00:30:50] bond interest, and
[00:30:53] loan interest were 10 points
[00:30:56] above what they should have been when compared to inflation.
[00:30:59] It's such a large number because
[00:31:03] of this: "This year alone, the interest
[00:31:07] that the public will pay is 2.7
[00:31:10] trillion lira. Next year, this is projected
[00:31:14] to be 4 trillion lira. The interest
[00:31:16] that the private sector will pay is many
[00:31:20] times more than this. So, currently, both
[00:31:24] bond and loan interest rates
[00:31:27] are over 50%, and the increase since
[00:31:30] that operation has been 10 points. There
[00:31:34] is no decline at all. That's why,
[00:31:37] we always say law, that's why we say opposition.
[00:31:40] I mean, it's not possible for the New Party,
[00:31:44] the Republican People's Party, or other opposition
[00:31:48] parties to be a means of support for us. But
[00:31:51] if these are harming the country's economy
[00:31:54] and democracy, then we also
[00:31:58] have to take a side in this,
[00:32:01] we must. I mean,
[00:32:04] this ethical obligation exists for journalists.
[00:32:08] As you know, for example, I want to give another example. Unfortunately,
[00:32:11] in its 25 years of power,
[00:32:15] it could not create good examples in agriculture
[00:32:19] and livestock. I mean, 15 years ago,
[00:32:21] Turkey's grain
[00:32:25] production was 16 million tons, and Russia's
[00:32:29] was also 16 million. Yes, 20
[00:32:32] million, I think. No, both were 16
[00:32:35] million tons. Today, Russia is 80 million
[00:32:39] tons, Turkey is 20 million
[00:32:42] tons. I always give this example. Some people tell me, "Russia
[00:32:46] has a large area." We were the same then. Let's
[00:32:49] skip its area. Ukraine is 35 million
[00:32:52] tons. What are we boasting about? We are boasting about being a grain
[00:32:56] corridor. No. Turkey could easily have been one
[00:33:00] of the world's most important grain silos.
[00:33:03] For example, during the AK Party government,
[00:33:07] your Konya was like that, for example,
[00:33:10] it was one of the world's largest grain depots, of course, of course.
[00:33:13] For example, Mr. Ercüment, you know better.
[00:33:16] The evacuated villages
[00:33:20] were villages where livestock breeding and agriculture were very
[00:33:24] strong, especially livestock breeding. During the AK Party government,
[00:33:26] I think these areas should have been brought
[00:33:30] back to livestock breeding. But such a policy
[00:33:33] and... such a priority was never pursued.
[00:33:37] That's why we even started seeing imported meat
[00:33:41] in Erzurum. I mean, it's a surprising
[00:33:45] situation for Turkey. These also happened
[00:33:48] during the AK Party government, and seriously, I'll tell
[00:33:52] you, like their own slogan, "If AK Party does it, it does it,"
[00:33:55] there are so many bad examples in law, in democracy,
[00:33:58] in trials, in livestock breeding,
[00:34:02] in agriculture, that it's really like, "If
[00:34:05] AK Party does it, it does it." I'll say something,
[00:34:08] I want to interrupt. Now, you know. Okay,
[00:34:11] you say, "If AK Party does it, it does it," but now
[00:34:15] the pressure that AK Party has applied on the opposition
[00:34:19] for the last year and a half, the operations against
[00:34:22] municipalities, the trustee politics, the transfer
[00:34:26] of council members, their detention
[00:34:29] or arrest from time to time, you know,
[00:34:33] last week, AK Party won the Foça Municipality,
[00:34:37] for which it didn't even nominate a candidate,
[00:34:39] with the transfer of the female mayor. However,
[00:34:43] I just said it was very interesting. Council members are being talked
[00:34:46] about more than ever before. Ms. Yağmur, if I'm not
[00:34:50] mistaken, look at the beautiful
[00:34:51] speech she gave
[00:34:54] at the Izmir Metropolitan Municipality Council meeting.
[00:34:58] Can we listen? Did you see these as something
[00:35:01] to be celebrated? You took the places that the people
[00:35:04] did not appreciate and give to you, by pressing the mayor,
[00:35:07] by other means with the council member, in points where people
[00:35:11] did not give their votes to you, you counted those votes as taken
[00:35:14] through various ways and turned around and congratulated yourselves.
[00:35:17] Is this a success? I think this is at best
[00:35:21] helplessness. Now I want to ask, or by this means,
[00:35:24] you say you have taken those districts. Don't you think that when
[00:35:27] the day comes, the nation will take back what belongs to them
[00:35:31] from you? Don't you know, don't you see that the limit
[00:35:34] of what you can take
[00:35:36] remains in the conscience
[00:35:39] of the nation? Don't you hear the voices of the street
[00:35:43] at all? The nation whose votes you disregarded,
[00:35:46] who you disrespected, will hold you accountable
[00:35:50] for all of this, for denying national
[00:35:53] sovereignty. This nation, which you have impoverished
[00:35:55] despite all the wealth you have taken from its bridges,
[00:35:59] highways, and factories, will hold you accountable
[00:36:03] for this. But let everyone know, the curse
[00:36:06] of this noble nation will not go unpunished.
[00:36:09] The day will come when the short straw
[00:36:12] will demand its right from the long one and take it.
[00:36:16] You didn't waffle, you didn't ramble,
[00:36:19] you didn't say uh. Yağmur Yurdakul
[00:36:22] Özkan at the Izmir Metropolitan Municipality
[00:36:26] Council meeting. Do you think
[00:36:29] that the street will not ask for an account
[00:36:32] of this? Don't you hear
[00:36:34] the voice of the street at all?
[00:36:38] But we have been talking about this for a year and a half. Has the AK Party become
[00:36:42] too detached from the street? Doesn't
[00:36:44] it hear? Is the distance between
[00:36:48] it and the people increasing every day?
[00:36:51] Well, I think so. I think its organizations have also
[00:36:55] become detached, Ms. Sinem. Because they are watching
[00:36:58] what's happening in astonishment. What will they say
[00:37:02] to people on the street? Look, I attach great
[00:37:06] importance to this example, because they lost touch
[00:37:10] with the youth. Why wouldn't they lose touch?
[00:37:14] I mean, coffee shops are opening
[00:37:17] everywhere, especially regarding coffee, and young people
[00:37:21] really like it. They go there, study,
[00:37:25] socialize, and have opportunities
[00:37:28] to chat. They are also very nice places,
[00:37:31] but the cheapest coffee is 200 lira.
[00:37:35] 200 lira.
[00:37:39] Okay, let me get
[00:37:41] a final assessment from Mr. Ercüment as
[00:37:45] we're slowly approaching the end.
[00:37:49] Let me tell you, it's this:
[00:37:52] now you've lost a municipality
[00:37:56] as the ruling party. You have
[00:38:00] organizations, you have branches, women's, youth
[00:38:03] organizations. What do you do?
[00:38:06] You work with all your might to win
[00:38:10] that place towards the election, you mobilize, right?
[00:38:13] Now, that would be the motivation. But
[00:38:16] if that place is taken through
[00:38:20] transfers, and if this path has been opened,
[00:38:23] or if it's being emptied and taken through
[00:38:27] arrests via the judiciary, then what's the point of working?
[00:38:29] It will come to us anyway. Therefore,
[00:38:33] he said something very good, true, why should
[00:38:36] I bother? I mean, there's no chance
[00:38:40] of me succeeding and being discovered from somewhere.
[00:38:44] I always warn the opposition not
[00:38:47] to fall into complacency, but I think the real
[00:38:51] complacency can appear in the ruling party's
[00:38:54] organizations. I mean, someone from the same
[00:38:58] organization works, enters the district from the youth
[00:39:01] branches, perhaps has a dream of becoming a mayor,
[00:39:05] then suddenly, with a transfer from the opposing party,
[00:39:08] a more valuable candidate is shown. And it happened
[00:39:12] a lot, but yes, I mean, if you look now, it's not
[00:39:15] just council members or mayors. MPs also
[00:39:18] came. Some of those MPs were given important
[00:39:21] positions in the general headquarters, like a vice
[00:39:25] chairman, like Kürşat Zorlu, for example. I mean,
[00:39:28] if a man who has worked in organizations for years
[00:39:32] suddenly has a dream of becoming a vice chairman
[00:39:35] at some point, then tough luck. And at
[00:39:39] some point, that person who became a vice chairman,
[00:39:42] or that person who became a mayor, spent years
[00:39:45] criticizing these people. I mean, in small
[00:39:49] places, especially in district politics, they engaged
[00:39:52] in personal animosities, in dialogues. Now, how
[00:39:56] will the voters accept
[00:40:27] to be ashamed of, in my opinion.
[00:40:29] Let me tell you something, do you remember when
[00:40:33] Menemen Municipality passed to the AK Party,
[00:40:36] the lady, I apologize, I can't remember
[00:40:40] her name, had a video conference with the President,
[00:40:43] and she said, "We believed and we won." For example,
[00:40:46] she believes she won that place. Yes,
[00:40:50] I mean, she thinks she actually entered
[00:40:53] an election there, a ballot box was placed
[00:40:56] there, and she came out successfully.
[00:41:00] I mean, it's an incredible thing, I mean, she says,
[00:41:03] "We believed," "We believed and we won."
[00:41:07] Yes, let me finish the sentence, from
[00:41:11] where you said, I mean, the situation
[00:41:15] on the side of the government is like this, there will
[00:41:18] be a more complacent situation, but on the opposition
[00:41:22] side, there is also a danger bell.
[00:41:25] Now, people
[00:41:40] slept on top of the election bags for days, of course,
[00:41:58] to hand over those wet signature
[00:42:01] records. I mean, what efforts
[00:42:02] were made, what sacrifices
[00:42:11] were made? Now, you elect
[00:42:14] a mayor, you elect council members,
[00:42:18] I mean, they are taking everything into account,
[00:42:22] I mean, they are taking
[00:42:25] everything into account, the voters, the citizens, the party
[00:42:28] members, but if you switch to
[00:42:31] that side overnight, then there can be very serious ruptures
[00:42:35] here. Next
[00:42:41] time, next time, there needs
[00:42:44] to be a filter, and there needs to be
[00:42:47] public oversight regarding candidacies, but also
[00:42:51] the public shouldn't be so easily...
[00:42:54] But we've always talked about this, especially
[00:42:57] for the past year during this transfer period, we've always
[00:43:01] evaluated this, Ercüment Akdeniz. I mean, will
[00:43:05] the voters say, when election day comes, "What's it
[00:43:07] to me, brother? I'm going,
[00:43:10] I'm voting, they're getting arrested. I'm going, I'm voting,
[00:43:13] they're getting transferred. I'm going, I'm voting"?
[00:43:55] But politically, there's a weariness. The trustee
[00:43:59] practice is evident. Look, previously, HDP,
[00:44:02] now DEM, how many trustees came? Three.
[00:44:06] People think, if that's pressure,
[00:44:09] "Even if it's only for 3 days, I'll go and take it."
[00:44:12] They had trained about 6,000 ballot
[00:44:15] observers. All but 10,000
[00:44:19] had switched to the new party. So, actually, it's
[00:44:22] good to see that the new party was
[00:44:25] quite prepared in this regard.
[00:44:29] You also, I guess, had a contribution.
[00:44:32] I was just going to add, when you say transfer,
[00:44:36] it also reminds one of football.
[00:44:40] Now, we said, will these transfers make us think,
[00:44:43] "Let's not vote in these elections"? I wanted to
[00:44:46] give an example from football. Fenerbahçe had a match
[00:44:50] two weeks ago. Fenerbahçe hasn't been to the Champions
[00:44:53] League for 18 years. It went, my dear, now it's
[00:44:57] complete. That's what I'm saying, there wasn't an empty seat
[00:45:01] in the stadium during the match. Even after 18 years,
[00:45:04] people believed, and Fenerbahçe is now in the Champions
[00:45:08] League. Well, this example you gave from football
[00:45:11] really applies to politics too. Transfers, of course,
[00:45:15] evoke that. Thank you very much, lawyer Ertunç Özyalçın,
[00:45:19] journalist Ercüment Akdeniz. Thank you, and my journalist
[00:45:23] colleague Şükrü Küçükşahin presented.
[00:45:27] to become members of a political party
[00:45:30] they had opposed for years. Here,
[00:45:34] we are already shouting that there is both
[00:45:37] a threat and an incentive. Furthermore, if we look
[00:45:41] at the last Üsküdar elections, two more
[00:45:45] council members there, although they remained
[00:45:48] in the Republican People's Party, voted for the
[00:45:52] AK Party candidate. Let's say these friends
[00:45:55] thought the same thing. Did they not have enough
[00:45:58] time to switch to the AK Party, or did the AK Party
[00:46:02] not have enough votes to win the Üsküdar elections,
[00:46:05] so they needed to threaten or incentivize more people? These
[00:47:23] are all very clear. All of these are already
[00:47:26] very clear. Let's get to the issue
[00:47:30] regarding our convention. Our
[00:47:33] friends, in the convention indictment,
[00:47:36] had such photos, convention photos taken, circled
[00:47:39] in red. Look, they were
[00:47:43] next to Özgür Özel at the convention,
[00:47:46] and now they've become council members.
[00:47:48] A big crime. This was shown as a crime.
[00:47:52] How? Özgür Özel promised
[00:47:55] that he would win the convention, and after
[00:47:59] winning the convention, he would make them council
[00:48:02] members. This was political bribery.
[00:48:05] It was also against the Political Parties
[00:48:08] Law. Someone in his own
[00:48:11] party, because they walk with him,
[00:48:14] yes, he might consider placing them somewhere.
[00:48:18] This is natural in politics, at the same time,
[00:48:21] our minds inevitably recall the 38th
[00:48:25] convention. There was a lawsuit filed and
[00:48:29] a decision of absolute nullification, with the
[00:48:32] claim and accusation that the wills of the delegates
[00:48:35] were crippled. Now, what exactly was crippled
[00:48:39] here, I couldn't understand. I would appreciate it
[00:48:42] if you could explain. I was actually
[00:48:45] going to start from there. Let's say
[00:48:49] what we would say at the end at the beginning.
[00:48:53] Only 4 council members in Üsküdar decided
[00:48:57] to switch from the CHP to the AKP.
[00:49:00] So, there is no crippling of will,
[00:49:04] no offer, no incentive, nothing.
[00:49:07] It's just a coincidence that four separate
[00:49:10] individuals suddenly decided to resign
[00:49:13] from the Republican People's Party Council
[00:49:16] membership at the same time. Suddenly,
[00:49:20] they found themselves in a political drift,
[00:49:24] and what a coincidence that they all decided
[00:49:27] to reunite in the same place. Either
[00:49:31] these four separate people internalized this,
[00:49:34] experienced it without any incentive, any threat,
[00:49:38] and suddenly decided
[00:49:40] arkadaşlarımız
[00:49:43] kurultay iddianamesinde böyle fotoğrafları kurultay
[00:49:46] fotoğrafları çekilerek, böyle kırmızı yuvarlaklar içerisine
[00:49:50] alınarak fotoğrafları. Bakın
[00:49:52] kurultayda Özgür Özel'in yanındaymış, şimdi Meclis
[00:49:56] üyesi olmuş. Büyük suç. Bu
[00:50:00] suç olarak gösterildi. Nasıl? Özgür
[00:50:02] Özel kurultayı kazanacağını, kurultayı
[00:50:06] kazandıktan sonra kendisini meclis üyesi yapacağını
[00:50:10] taahüt etmiş. Bu siyasi rüşvetmiş. Siyasi
[00:50:14] partiler kanununa da aykırıymış. Kendi
[00:50:17] partisindeki birisi kendisiyle yol yürüyor diye,
[00:50:20] evet bir yerde değerlendirmeyi. düşünebilir, zaten siyasetin
[00:50:24] doğasında bu vardır, insanlar beraber yol yürüdükleri insanlarla
[00:50:27] siyasette devam etmek isterler, kaldı ki siz
[00:50:30] bunu bir suç olarak göreceksiniz,
[00:50:33] dahası bizim daha yeni tahliye olan meclis
[00:50:36] üyemiz kurultay delegesi dahili
[00:50:39] olamadı, bakın kurultay delegesi dahili
[00:50:43] olamadığı halde, çünkü il seçimlerinde
[00:50:46] farklı adayları desteklemişlerdi, ya
[00:50:49] cezaevinden yeni çıktı, kurultay delegesi bile değildi rüşvet
[00:50:53] vermiş, meclis üyesi yapmış, kurultay delegesi olmayan birisine niye rüşvet verdi
[00:50:56] Özgür Özel dedik, bu insanlar durduk yeri
[00:51:00] ceza evlerinde kalıyor, yazıktır, günahtır dedik, buradan
[00:51:03] yola çıkarak bir kişinin gözaltına
[00:51:06] alınması, tutuklanması, bir kişinin bile bir gün bir saat özgürlüğünden
[00:51:10] mahrum bırakılması zaten kabul edilecek bir şey değil ama buradan
[00:51:13] 103 yıllık partiye kayyum atadılar, ya
[00:51:16] cumhuriyet halk partisi'ne kayyum atandı buradan bu
[00:51:19] people want to continue
[00:51:22] in politics with those they walk with. Moreover,
[00:51:26] you will consider this a crime.
[00:51:29] Furthermore, our council member who was
[00:51:33] just released from prison couldn't even become
[00:51:37] a convention delegate. Look, even though
[00:51:40] he couldn't even become a convention delegate,
[00:51:43] because they had supported different candidates in the provincial elections.
[00:51:47] He just got out of prison. He wasn't even a convention
[00:51:50] a member says, they offered me another... Deputy position, and I said yes.
[00:51:54] What is this? Is this not political bribery?
[00:51:58] Let me tell you, I think
[00:52:01] this is the most innocent incident that Tahsin Usta
[00:52:05] recounted in Üsküdar. I think it's the most innocent incident.
[00:52:09] Saying "come, I'll make you a deputy mayor" to offer political
[00:52:12] bribery, if you could appoint a trustee
[00:52:16] to the 103-year-old Republican People's Party,
[00:52:19] then re-elections in Üsküdar are not enough.
[00:52:22] You should bring the same offer
[00:52:26] you applied now.
[00:52:29] Just as you took the council member in,
[00:52:33] then take Mr. Tahsin. For the same reason, for violating
[00:52:36] the Political Parties Law, for the same
[00:52:39] reason, ask Mr. Tahsin, "Who made this offer to you,
[00:52:42] brother?" How did this happen? When
[00:52:45] making a choice between two candidates within the party can be considered
[00:52:49] such a crime, is it not a crime to switch to another
[00:52:52] party and make the municipality elected by the people win for
[00:52:56] a party they didn't elect? Will they ask Mr. Tahsin
[00:53:00] "Who did it?" If there was such a rumor
[00:53:03] in any municipality of the Republican People's Party or today's
[00:53:07] new party, prosecutors would immediately be called to duty.
[00:53:10] Immediately, even before being called,
[00:53:14] prosecutors would take this as their duty and start. Why is this not asked
[00:53:17] to Mr. Tahsin? It's not asked because
[00:53:20] we know this. We also know the reason for the second
[00:53:23] and third operations in Üsküdar. There will be no more operations
[00:53:27] in Üsküdar. They already got what they wanted.
[00:53:31] But today in the last
[00:53:35] elections, our candidate, Ms. Sibel, made a speech in the IBB council.
[00:53:39] I was able to listen to it today. I don't know if she did it today or if it came
[00:53:43] across me today. She said,
[00:53:46] yes, you can enter a municipality, you can sit
[00:53:49] in office, you can even
[00:53:53] sign documents, and those signatures can be official signatures,
[00:53:56] very true. But you cannot win the heart of a city
[00:54:00] with decrees, she said you cannot enter the heart of a city. But
[00:54:02] we also don't think that there are any concerns
[00:54:06] about creating social consensus for a citizen. I mean,
[00:54:09] is there really a concern about creating social consent in the citizen or has that threshold already been crossed?
[00:54:12] Let's get to that in a bit, Mr. Dünder. Now,
[00:54:16] this confession, actually, Mr. Usta's
[00:54:19] statement, let me say, not confession,
[00:54:21] is clearer and more distinct
[00:54:25] than the allegations that led to the annulment
[00:54:28] of the CHP's general assembly, meaning absolute annulment.
[00:54:32] A very clear statement: "Deputy mayor."
[00:54:35] Now, what kind of move would you expect from the Turkish
[00:54:38] judiciary, which has ruled for annulment, regarding this?
[00:54:41] What should actually happen? Of course,
[00:54:44] in an ideal situation, citizens
[00:54:47] and the public would expect
[00:54:50] a similar action to be taken
[00:54:54] for Üsküdar in a legal
[00:54:56] system where the rule of law prevails. Also,
[00:54:59] Mr. Tahsin may have let it slip
[00:55:03] inadvertently. He says, I believe
[00:55:07] Ms. Sinem Dedetaş
[00:55:09] did not do the dirty
[00:55:12] work that was directed
[00:55:15] at her. He says, I wouldn't even attribute such a thing to her. He says, "I wouldn't
[00:55:19] attribute it." This means, in his
[00:55:23] eyes, Sinem Nedetaş, the currently imprisoned mayor of Üsküdar,
[00:55:26] is a clean mayor, an innocent mayor.
[00:55:29] He also makes such a confession. Therefore,
[00:55:32] if we look at another aspect
[00:55:36] of the issue, these municipal council members,
[00:55:39] okay, they change parties for one reason or another,
[00:55:43] but the voters didn't vote for them
[00:55:47] to take office in the parties they went to;
[00:55:50] they voted for them to be in opposition.
[00:55:54] Doing such a thing without the consent
[00:55:57] of the voters is, in my opinion, ethically
[00:56:01] extremely wrong. You'll
[00:56:03] say, what's left, but we must
[00:56:07] defend ethical values to the end.
[00:56:09] Look, today,
[00:56:12] Foça, a district where the Justice
[00:56:15] and Development Party didn't even
[00:56:19] enter the elections, won the mayoralty there.
[00:56:23] But what happened next? The mayor
[00:56:26] is the host at the ceremonies
[00:56:30] held on September 11, the anniversary of Foça's liberation.
[00:56:34] The shopkeepers
[00:56:43] in Sent Pazarı protested, meaning
[00:56:45] the direction of the politician is actually
[00:56:49] determined
[00:56:51] by the people, by the voters who
[00:56:55] cast their votes for him. If the voters
[00:56:58] assign him a direction, and he goes
[00:57:01] in the opposite direction, then
[00:57:05] it means that politician's life,
[00:57:08] I think, is coming to an end.
[00:57:11] Because every action
[00:57:14] taken against the will of the voters
[00:57:17] is a very important factor that prepares the end
[00:57:21] of that politician. They will probably
[00:57:24] not get votes from the Justice and Development Party voters
[00:57:27] anymore, because I am
[00:57:30] speaking, and conscientious Justice and Development Party voters
[00:57:33] do not accept this. They say,
[00:57:37] "We must win a mayoralty and that municipality's
[00:57:40] council with our votes, given by our free will.
[00:57:44] Otherwise, such behaviors
[00:57:47] do not conform to our morals
[00:57:49] and do not meet our expectations. Therefore, they say,
[00:57:53] we never approve." I have friends in Üsküdar,
[00:57:57] for example; I talk to them, and they evaluate it this way.
[00:58:00] Therefore, Mr. Gökçek compared it
[00:58:03] to the annulment case.
[00:58:06] It's very clear, of course. The evidence
[00:58:10] here is very clear, very obvious,
[00:58:12] it's a confession. The other
[00:58:15] is annulment, annulment. Allegation, allegation, allegation. Here,
[00:58:19] confession. Exactly, and there's another thing.
[00:58:23] Is it forbidden for AK Party, according to the law,
[00:58:26] or for CHP or the new party
[00:58:29] to persuade a delegate or a council member? I mean, when you
[00:58:32] set out to persuade a delegate, you are corrupting
[00:58:36] the will, you are crippling the will. But when
[00:58:39] the AK Party's Istanbul Provincial Directorate or District Directorate
[00:58:43] tries to do this by pressing a button, would a promise
[00:58:47] of political office be ethical? No, why would it be? For example,
[00:58:50] when the İyi Party was entering the elections, it brought Bilge Yılmaz
[00:58:54] from a serious university in the United States.
[00:58:57] It said, "If we come to power, I want to entrust the economy to you."
[00:59:01] And the man came. Is this political bribery? I mean,
[00:59:04] when you, as a political party official or leader,
[00:59:08] say who you will work with and what duties you will distribute
[00:59:11] when you come to power, can this be considered political bribery? Can such a thing happen? No,
[00:59:15] on the contrary, it's a guarantee for the voter. Of course, it's about the voter.
[00:59:19] You're providing inner peace and comfort
[00:59:22] for the voter to feel secure with people
[00:59:26] you trust deeply. You're giving them something,
[00:59:30] inner peace, inner comfort. This is very important.
[00:59:33] But a little while ago, before the program,
[00:59:36] while chatting with dear Uğur Abi, I said that this Üsküdar
[00:59:40] incident is actually a milestone in Turkish political history.
[00:59:44] Perhaps I may have said it in the last program too, I'm still of the same opinion.
[00:59:47] For example, I'll explain it very quickly,
[00:59:51] so that our dear viewers don't get confused by the numbers,
[00:59:54] who left, who came, who left, who came, and can follow the chronology.
[00:59:58] A contractor complains. Sinem Dedetaş, the Mayor
[01:00:01] of Üsküdar, is first detained based on a contractor's complaint,
[01:00:04] then arrested. There's no conviction
[01:00:07] yet, nothing, but since arrest has turned into a punishment
[01:00:11] in Turkey, she's immediately arrested and sent to prison.
[01:00:14] What will happen to the prison? The deputy mayor, Ms. Sibel, is elected
[01:00:18] as the deputy mayor. Objections to the deputy mayor
[01:00:21] are immediately accepted by the court, and then voting begins.
[01:00:24] There are 28 council members, plus the mayor, makes 29.
[01:00:27] They lose one, it drops to 27. What happens next is very interesting.
[01:00:30] After 27, three are arrested,
[01:00:34] I mean, detained. Two are arrested,
[01:00:36] except for one. In between, 4 resignations.
[01:00:40] In between, 4 resignations. Those who resign confess themselves.
[01:00:44] They say, "You know, they said in the pavilions, in the hotels,
[01:00:47] for the CHP's congress, we stayed in a hotel for 3 days."
[01:00:50] You know, they had missed Turan at Galatasaray.
[01:00:54] They had kept him in a hotel like they would abduct a football player
[01:00:57] before a transfer contract. Exactly, like abducting a football player
[01:01:01] in the 70s, they take him to a hotel. He himself says it.
[01:01:05] He himself says it. In fact, his exact statement is this,
[01:01:08] teacher, let's elaborate a little. He says, "I was following
[01:01:12] all developments in Trabzon, I had gone to pick hazelnuts.
[01:01:15] I came back and found myself in a hotel in Izmit.
[01:01:19] A state official was waiting over us." He says, "There was security over us.
[01:01:22] Even my wife didn't know, she was very angry." So much secrecy,
[01:01:26] like an operation to kidnap a US President
[01:01:30] in movies. I mean, you're just a council member,
[01:01:34] what police, what hotel, what protection, one feels like saying, but
[01:01:37] when you look at the result, of course, we are saying
[01:01:41] this based on this statement. Did they leave the hotel,
[01:01:44] did they travel, did they say "come, let's go"? We are saying this based on their statement that they stayed in a hotel.
[01:01:48] So this is not a good thing.
[01:01:51] But in between, while the very interesting votings continued,
[01:01:55] as you know, it ended 21-21. The voting was postponed.
[01:01:59] During the postponement, such
[01:02:02] arrests happen to prevent them from voting.
[01:02:06] I mean, it turned into an arrest after the detention period.
[01:02:09] They coordinate those dates in such a way as
[01:02:12] to prevent those in detention from voting. I mean, everything
[01:02:16] has been calculated with delicate political engineering. Conversely, there's something else
[01:02:20] that's strange. While the votes were being cast, two more people, who had not
[01:02:24] resigned at all, supposedly had no contact
[01:02:27] with the AK Party, two people who appeared to be CHP council members,
[01:02:30] voted for the Justice and Development Party during the voting.
[01:02:34] Now, of course, if they are new party members,
[01:02:37] the new party members should also think, "How did we make these
[01:02:40] people council members? Should we examine and scrutinize
[01:02:44] more carefully from now on?" This is a lesson for the new party.
[01:02:47] But after listening to
[01:02:50] Mr. Tahsin's speeches,
[01:02:53] he says, "This deputy mayor is political
[01:02:57] bribery." Because if
[01:03:00] you start out in the same party, for example, I'm the general
[01:03:04] chairman, I'll say, "Ali, we'll work together, Ali Gökçek, come, let's work,
[01:03:07] because we'll make you a general chairman responsible for local governments,"
[01:03:11] or "we'll make you a minister," that's something else. But
[01:03:15] when you say to someone from another party,
[01:03:18] "You appear to be from them, come to my side," this is political
[01:03:22] immorality, a political betrayal,
[01:03:25] call it what you will. When you look
[01:03:29] at it, the court... for example, this is actually absolute
[01:03:32] annulment, because you are sitting down
[01:03:36] for a negotiation to corrupt an election
[01:03:39] that has been won, using methods
[01:03:42] outside of all political and moral
[01:03:46] values and norms. Just like
[01:03:49] the Justice and Development Party said about the CHP, "You abducted
[01:03:53] people in pavilions, dollars flew around."
[01:03:57] But what will happen if there's an objection? Let me tell you now.
[01:04:00] The election is over. The court will say, "Well, it
[01:04:04] would have been 23 to 20, or 22 to 20.
[01:04:08] When one person is moved from there to here, the result doesn't change." It will reject it.
[01:04:11] But this is important for going down in political
[01:04:14] history, that if you said "absolute annulment" for a grand
[01:04:18] 103-year-old party, then here in a district,
[01:04:21] with some variations beyond absolute annulment,
[01:04:24] social consent, I even remembered last week,
[01:04:27] I said that it's as if the Justice and Development Party is saying,
[01:04:31] "From now on, we want to govern not with consent, but with defect."
[01:04:35] So a defect is created, and with that defect,
[01:04:38] one way or another, it's already,
[01:04:41] with these transitions, transfers, arrests,
[01:04:44] and trustees, the balance that was 26 to 13
[01:04:47] after the March 31, 2024 elections has changed.
[01:04:51] When you look at the district level, the AK Party is the majority in Istanbul.
[01:04:54] And what is being talked about? Is this the gradual implementation
[01:04:57] of a plan targeting the IBB? We made eye contact,
[01:05:01] I think you wanted to add something. I find
[01:05:05] the Justice and Development Party in power winning mayoralties through
[01:05:09] such methods
[01:05:11] extremely negative for the image of the government.
[01:05:15] Doesn't it show a dilemma?
[01:05:19] A political party led by Tayyip Bey, who is a master
[01:05:21] politician and calculates the pulse of the people very
[01:05:24] well, especially when
[01:05:28] it's in power,
[01:05:30] should not need such methods, I think.
[01:05:34] Also, I must say this:
[01:05:37] I have not attended any event
[01:05:40] of Üsküdar Municipality until today.
[01:05:43] I have not spoken with Ms. Sinem.
[01:05:46] However, one Sunday, we were sitting
[01:05:50] in a restaurant cafe within
[01:05:53] the boundaries of Beykoz Municipality. It was packed,
[01:05:56] people were having brunch. Ms. Sinem
[01:06:00] was also sitting with her family
[01:06:03] at one end of the very long cafe. Believe me,
[01:06:07] more than 80%
[01:06:11] of the people there went
[01:06:14] and took photos with Ms. Sinem one by one.
[01:06:17] I am speaking based on my observation,
[01:06:21] she is one of the politicians, one of the mayors,
[01:06:24] who has great public support.
[01:06:27] And I claim,
[01:06:31] if they release her from prison today, and a fair election
[01:06:34] is held in Üsküdar where the ballot boxes
[01:06:38] are protected by everyone,
[01:06:41] by all political parties, Ms. Sinem will win there again.
[01:06:45] That observation, all these things, but it
[01:06:49] has turned into such a spiral. The continuation of these operations,
[01:06:53] the continuation of these transfers, while increasing the resistance
[01:06:56] of the opposition, of the social opposition,
[01:07:00] also increases the pressure of the government. There is no move
[01:07:04] that can be called a step back from either side.
[01:07:07] Now, today we learned that the election of the deputy mayor
[01:07:10] in Adalar will be cancelled, or rather, re-held.
[01:07:14] It inevitably comes to mind, is the Adalar municipality
[01:07:17] also in the pot, because there's a political
[01:07:21] storm starting with "shake up the municipalities," Ali Bey.
[01:07:24] You were also there during the Adalar elections. What happened there? Today I was in Adalar.
[01:07:28] Today,
[01:07:30] I also visited our deputy mayor,
[01:07:34] who resigned. They are trying
[01:07:38] to create a lot
[01:07:39] of speculation about him.
[01:07:42] Due to his problems, his sugar level actually reached 600.
[01:07:46] We wish him well, and he experienced serious
[01:07:49] health problems. Sugar rises with stress, by the way. Does he have stress? Of course.
[01:07:53] It's not easy to manage cities. Both the city
[01:07:56] and the city's problems, bureaucratic problems,
[01:08:00] and political crises, all these events
[01:08:04] have caused him distress. I wish him
[01:08:08] well again from here. You asked,
[01:08:10] "Is it targeting the IBB?" Let's look at it from the Üsküdar issue.
[01:08:14] Now, the Mayor is naturally an IBB
[01:08:17] council member. Let's see.
[01:08:20] You took Ms. Sinem, one vote.
[01:08:24] Okay. When you elect an AKP
[01:08:28] member in her place as deputy mayor,
[01:08:31] they will go to the IBB. That makes two votes
[01:08:34] for the IBB. You also arrested
[01:08:37] two IBB council members. That makes 4 votes.
[01:08:41] And also, in that last
[01:08:44] 21-21 vote, one of the two people
[01:08:48] who voted for the AKP was an IBB council member.
[01:08:50] That makes 5. This is the calculation for the IBB balance.
[01:08:54] It's not just Üsküdar. Yes, there's a big
[01:08:57] calculation regarding Üsküdar, but you asked if it's targeting the IBB.
[01:09:01] The calculation is this simple. But
[01:09:05] let me tell you,
[01:09:09] because of that one IBB council member,
[01:09:13] I will object to my professor here. You said, professor,
[01:09:16] they need to examine and scrutinize carefully. You're right,
[01:09:19] you're absolutely right.
[01:09:22] But in 2024, council
[01:09:26] members and mayors are determined. And each of us,
[01:09:30] just like you would, paid attention to merit,
[01:09:33] looked at their education, looked at neighborhood balance.
[01:09:36] For example, we might not
[01:09:39] be able to list a council member from every neighborhood
[01:09:42] of Üsküdar, but most neighborhoods need to be represented.
[01:09:46] They also need to be represented according to the demographic structure of Üsküdar.
[01:09:50] You're forming a council. There should be an architect,
[01:09:53] maybe an accountant too. Politics also has its own dynamics.
[01:09:57] We write them according to what they allow.
[01:10:00] While doing this, for example,
[01:10:03] our deputy mayor of Şile
[01:10:07] switched to the AKP. What were we supposed to do?
[01:10:10] I apologize profusely, I received a warning from my director that we are having
[01:10:14] a problem with your microphone. Let me continue with Mithat Hoca in the meantime.
[01:10:18] So, Mithat Hoca, Ali Bey has made his introduction, but the political
[01:10:22] climate we live in is enough to make one wonder
[01:10:24] what's happening when a deputy mayor election will be repeated,
[01:10:28] whether by court order or by your own decision. So, in such a political climate,
[01:10:32] the election will be re-held in Adalar. Oh, why?
[01:10:35] Because of health reasons. It was re-held by a previous
[01:10:38] court order. The situation is clear. This election...
[01:10:55] Justice and Development Party Deputy Chairman
[01:10:57] Ali İhsan Yavuz, responsible for elections,
[01:11:01] said the other day that even if we held elections a week
[01:11:05] before the 2028 election, it would be considered an early election.
[01:11:08] However, I don't think the economy will be able to handle
[01:11:12] the normal election in 2028 a week before it.
[01:11:16] In a previous program, probably Ebru Baki's program,
[01:11:19] I said that in April or May,
[01:11:22] around October or November, even a snap election
[01:11:26] could happen in October or November.
[01:11:29] But it didn't happen, so I was wrong there,
[01:11:33] there was no snap election. My argument for that was
[01:11:36] that considering President Trump's perspective
[01:11:39] on the region, he would prefer
[01:11:43] to continue with Tayyip Erdoğan or that the Justice
[01:11:46] and Development Party and its leader remain in power
[01:11:50] in his conceptualizations and schemes for Turkey and the region.
[01:11:53] Therefore, I was saying that a snap election could happen
[01:11:56] before Trump's decline, as he would likely lose
[01:12:00] the Senate midterm elections in November, and before the economy
[01:12:03] gets worse. Now that it didn't happen,
[01:12:07] and the economy, in my opinion, will not be able
[01:12:10] to sustain this until 2028,
[01:12:13] so it could be in 2027. Now, let's say 2027.
[01:12:16] It will happen in October of 2027,
[01:12:19] so around this time next year, October or November.
[01:12:23] During that process, I imagine that the Justice
[01:12:26] and Development Party will have appointed
[01:12:30] its own mayor or deputy mayor for the Istanbul Metropolitan
[01:12:32] Municipality and will plan to proceed
[01:12:36] in those coordinates. I'm thinking this in my head.
[01:12:39] It might be true, it might not be, but...
[01:12:55] it shows that this is moving towards the metropolitan area. In fact,
[01:12:58] it should also be said that sometimes,
[01:13:01] one needs to refer to certain references
[01:13:04] in political science. Jürgen Habermas, I always say,
[01:13:08] in the distinction between legality and legitimacy,
[01:13:11] this is very important. If you give up consensus
[01:13:15] and consent and try to manage political
[01:13:18] dynamics only with court decisions,
[01:13:22] then that place is not governed by the consent of the people.
[01:13:25] It becomes a republic of cracks and actually turns into
[01:13:28] a government of the minority, he says. It seems to describe today's
[01:13:32] Turkey. You get a court decision from everywhere. Is it legal?
[01:13:36] Since there are courts, it is legal. But is it legitimate?
[01:13:39] It is not legitimate. For it to be legitimate,
[01:13:43] I, Uğur Abi, Ali Gökçek, and all the cameramen friends here must internalize it.
[01:13:47] If there's a problem with internalization,
[01:13:50] if there's a problem with accepting it, then there is a legitimacy problem there.
[01:13:53] Okay,
[01:14:04] you look, someone from Keçi comes out at night,
[01:14:08] the general chairman sends messages, gives negative answers,
[01:14:11] you know, the one in Afyon goes to the other side,
[01:14:15] Aydın becomes like that. I could list many more things,
[01:14:19] but I don't want to bother you. So there was a rush here,
[01:14:22] or certain factions within the party,
[01:14:26] certain individuals nominated different candidates.
[01:14:29] It seems there is no such homogeneity, no such meticulous
[01:14:33] scrutiny. But it's not the end of the world, let this be a lesson.
[01:14:36] Personally, if I were in this situation, I would say, "Yes, I'll do it differently next time."
[01:14:40] I would do that instead of objecting. Okay, Ali Bey, you stayed.
[01:14:43] Please, let me give an example with my professor again.
[01:14:46] A thief broke into our house yesterday, professor.
[01:14:50] He entered the house at night. I had locked the door from below.
[01:14:53] And you're saying, "You explained it today."
[01:15:18] Afyon group deputy. Look, this is my first term. I went to the parliament.
[01:15:21] No matter how much politics you do,
[01:15:24] there's a different bureaucracy there. There are things
[01:15:27] you need to learn. Who do you watch? Your group
[01:15:31] deputy chairmen sit in the front, right? You watch the group deputy chairmen.
[01:15:35] Where and how they intervene, they are masters of the internal order,
[01:15:39] how do they act? When I went to the parliament,
[01:15:42] Ms. Burcu was my group deputy chairman. Of course, in her term as group deputy chairman,
[01:15:46] in the weeks she was on duty in the parliament, the person I was trying to find out how it would be,
[01:15:50] that person went to AKP, now how can we
[01:15:54] filter?
[01:15:57] The thing is, these people, there were 4 rounds of voting, in the first round,
[01:16:01] two votes didn't come out, one vote went to AKP, so we came out as
[01:16:04] 22 to 19 instead of 21 to 21,
[01:16:08] I'm sorry, we came out as 22 to 20,
[01:16:11] and it's clear who it is, our friend is clear,
[01:16:15] I mean, I went
[01:16:18] to our group room and was drinking tea at that time, we
[01:16:21] go in and out, we chat with our friends,
[01:16:25] those who use it come, I saw Mr. Onur's state,
[01:16:28] I was sad, I was really sad and I thought something bad would happen
[01:16:32] to him, I really thought he would have a heart attack
[01:16:35] related to his health, God forbid something would happen, I told him this too,
[01:16:38] I said Onur, I don't know what you went through,
[01:16:42] I don't know what you chose between,
[01:16:46] I said, brother, but you need to sit down and catch your breath, I'm
[01:16:49] afraid something will happen to you, I said, today
[01:16:53] he is open there. or he can remain silent, but
[01:16:57] no one does this
[01:17:00] like Tahsim Bey, Tahsim Bey, we passed, nothing
[01:17:03] happened, he's comfortable, he's digested it, there are also
[01:17:07] friends who do this without digesting it, I'm sad, but these people
[01:17:11] don't just pass with incentives, I mean, when you see
[01:17:15] that state of mind, yes, everyone expects
[01:17:19] a character, a stance, but I also felt sorry for the person
[01:17:22] I saw in front of me, honestly, maybe I will get a reaction from
[01:17:26] our voters, why are you softening things or why
[01:17:29] are you trying to empathize, they need
[01:17:32] to stand firm, they own the will of the nation, I sign
[01:17:35] under all of it, true, but I saw a person who was melted,
[01:17:39] whose will was gone, we need to be interested in how he was brought
[01:17:42] to that state, but when you look at it from one side, there are people
[01:17:46] like Fatma Hürriyet Kaplan, Sinem Dedetaş who say "pashas
[01:17:49] go", but what about the will, I mean, what about
[01:17:53] those who melt away? I agree with my esteemed professor
[01:17:57] from this perspective, in 2014, my children
[01:18:00] won good schools for their high school education,
[01:18:04] we went to Izmir, for a temporary period, that is, for their high school education.
[01:18:08] In a beautiful city, in the middle
[01:18:11] of a social way of life, so that
[01:18:14] they could study comfortably on the road,
[01:18:18] without wasting time in traffic, we went to Izmir,
[01:18:21] immediately a rumor was spread that Uğur Dünder
[01:18:25] came here to design the Republican People's Party.
[01:18:28] I have never had any involvement
[01:18:31] in active politics in my life.
[01:18:35] I do not have such an intention.
[01:18:38] No matter how much I said, I couldn't convince
[01:18:42] them, but in the end, my children's education finished,
[01:18:46] we came here, they studied abroad,
[01:18:49] they returned, I will get to this point, the people
[01:18:53] who said Uğur Dündar came to Izmir to design CHP
[01:18:56] nominated the mayor of Foça, and in the district
[01:18:59] where the Justice and Development Party did not enter the election,
[01:19:03] he naturally went to the Justice and Development Party, of course, I will say.
[01:19:11] Finally, let me say this, Mr. Uğur explained something very nice
[01:19:14] about Ms. Sinem, I also went to Beykoz to see
[01:19:18] what kind of interest there was, well,
[01:19:21] all of our friends who showed that interest to Ms. Sinem
[01:19:24] are now completely cursed, in quotation marks,
[01:19:27] by society, those people cannot walk
[01:19:31] in society anymore because Ms. Sinem,
[01:19:35] those who showed those reactions, that interest,
[01:19:39] will now show different reactions to
[01:19:42] these friends, the friends who do this
[01:19:46] should take this into account, especially to young
[01:19:49] friends, I say it even more, I will finish this period,
[01:19:52] I will close it, is the visible village such a village? I'm
[01:19:56] asking about the islands, I mean, we saw this film, we saw
[01:19:59] it in Üsküdar, we saw it in Bayrampaşa, we saw it
[01:20:03] in Menemen, we saw it everywhere, we are experienced, now if a
[01:20:06] deputy mayor election will be repeated in the Islands, the incident
[01:20:10] that happened yesterday or in Menemen comes to my mind, here too,
[01:20:13] transfers, I mean, like in films, kidnapping
[01:20:17] members, hotels, security, etc. could it happen? It's
[01:20:20] very new, so if I say something about it now,
[01:20:24] we will look at everything in the same way, then what we experienced in Üsküdar
[01:20:28] would seem baseless, what we experienced in Üsküdar was very
[01:20:31] real, if we experience it in the Islands, we will tell
[01:20:34] it with the same reality, but for now, I contacted our council
[01:20:37] members, there is no problem with them, we are
[01:20:40] standing where we are, only a decision
[01:20:44] had to be made due to a health issue, now a new friend, I wish
[01:20:48] Turkey wasn't in this situation so that we wouldn't have to
[01:20:51] talk about someone who left because of health problems saying
[01:20:55] "I can't do my job, let someone better do it", but you are
[01:20:58] right, but I also talked to our council members
[01:21:02] there, there is no such thing, I can
[01:21:06] say something. Well, we shouldn't act
[01:21:09] on an individual basis, because as I speak, of course,
[01:21:12] Ali Gökçek, the New Party's MP,
[01:21:16] will inevitably be on the defensive, but what I'm saying
[01:21:19] is actually not a criticism of a party,
[01:21:23] this could be another party tomorrow. What I'm saying is something
[01:21:26] else, for example, Uğur Abi said: the Justice and Development
[01:21:29] Party did not enter the election in Foça, the elected mayor
[01:21:33] in the place where it did not enter the election says, "you
[01:21:36] did not enter the election, but I will honor
[01:21:39] you and crown you." Öz Ağa Bey, who was the former
[01:21:42] mayor of a town, is protesting him, for example,
[01:21:46] sevgili Ali Gökçek mentioned Beykoz, as far
[01:21:49] as I know, it's not Beykoz, who brought him, why did they bring
[01:21:52] him? Alaattin Köselar was arrested, he was elected, he was elected on Monday,
[01:21:55] on Thursday he says he's joining AKP, can such a thing happen?
[01:21:59] Well, okay, there can be such rotten apples, but what I wanted
[01:22:03] to say here was something else, but there's no time, well, it's
[01:22:06] full like this. The minute is running out, the
[01:22:10] law on political parties needs to change, the mayor,
[01:22:13] the MP, the members should elect them,
[01:22:16] so that they will have a responsibility towards the society that elects them,
[01:22:19] so that they will be ashamed, as long as they are not elected,
[01:22:23] he says "the general chairman and my friends elected me", when
[01:22:27] he gets a few harsh messages on the phone, he says "it's done, it's gone", when
[01:22:31] someone sees him in the market, he says "aren't you ashamed, did you elect
[01:22:34] me, did you put me there?", we need to get rid of this, let the members elect.
[01:22:44] if it somehow becomes vacant, let the people elect again, we are also saying this, I mean, in this case, the real will
[01:22:47] of the people should manifest
[01:22:50] not only at the ballot box once every 5 years,
[01:22:53] but also in some elections before the ballot box,
[01:22:56] we say we will elect our district chairman, our provincial chairman,
[01:23:00] our general chairman with our members, all our members,
[01:23:04] that's what I'm trying to say, okay, now yesterday the Supreme Court.
[01:23:20] a letter saying it cannot be used arrived today, the New Party's MYK
[01:23:23] met and it was decided that the Constitutional Court's
[01:23:26] decision would be awaited, and the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office
[01:23:29] of the Court of Cassation needs to send a letter to the Constitutional
[01:23:33] Court by September 18th. Finally, Mr. Dünder also has such a blockade,
[01:23:37] that is, front after front, the inability to use the name,
[01:23:41] can such a change, such a modification, be made
[01:23:44] mandatory again? On the one hand,
[01:23:47] it is spread over time.
[01:23:50] spread over a certain calendar and if there is a snap election
[01:23:54] during that time, will the new party not be able to enter the election?
[01:23:58] Very advanced questions are coming now, I haven't talked to anyone, but
[01:24:01] I think the new party has plans like
[01:24:05] A, B, C, D for all possibilities,
[01:24:08] it has made all its preparations, also, the Supreme Court's
[01:24:12] making this notification is natural,
[01:24:15] it is a duty it has to do,
[01:24:18] however, when you look at their logos. "it turns out that the logos do not express
[01:24:22] any similarity, moreover, there are many
[01:24:25] political parties whose names start with justice,
[01:24:29] there are a few political parties,
[01:24:33] there are some political parties that start with republic,
[01:24:37] therefore, it is natural to expect the Constitutional Court
[01:24:41] to make a decision by looking at the logos
[01:24:44] and evaluating and seeing the difference
[01:24:48] and saying "new party". What do you say Ali Gökçek?
[01:24:51] Now, at the MYK meeting, the Constitutional Court's decision
[01:24:55] will be awaited, a name
[01:24:58] change was not considered, but
[01:25:01] the fact that everything has a reason,
[01:25:04] that nothing in politics is accidental,
[01:25:08] that every step taken is actually the infrastructure
[01:25:11] of the next step, I mean, we've experienced
[01:25:15] so many things in the last year and a half, we said
[01:25:19] "this is because of this, this is because of that", and then
[01:25:23] we witnessed many developments, the annulment decision is the most
[01:25:25] concrete, the trustee decision that came to the provincial
[01:25:29] chairmanship in Istanbul is the most concrete, so
[01:25:32] it seems like a siege is continuing, by the way,
[01:25:36] I agree with what Uğur hocam said, the move made
[01:25:39] by the Chief Public Prosecutor's Office of the Court of Cassation
[01:25:42] is a correct move, but on the other hand, for example, there is the CHP's
[01:25:45] decision to withdraw its appeal, Müslüm Sarı announced it yesterday, what's happening?
[01:25:55] First, if we come to the name issue, as Mr. Uğur
[01:25:58] also mentioned, the Constitutional Court will decide,
[01:26:01] but when the Constitutional Court examines this,
[01:26:04] it does not examine it as "new party, innovation party,
[01:26:08] names are similar", when it makes this
[01:26:12] examination, it looks at its logo,
[01:26:15] its abbreviation, furthermore, it looks at
[01:26:18] whether the political
[01:26:20] it evokes corresponds to the same thing, that is, it looks
[01:26:24] at whether it makes the same associations, in the end, it examines
[01:26:28] whether it can be confused when voting, it does not
[01:26:31] examine similarity based only on names,
[01:26:34] it will do this, we will continue
[01:26:37] to use it, we think that the Constitutional Court
[01:26:41] will make a decision in our favor here,
[01:26:44] let's say it doesn't, let's say
[01:26:47] today is so beautiful. "I read, while this conversation
[01:26:51] was going on in the street, so many beautiful things,
[01:26:55] whatever you call it, brother, we are following the path you took,
[01:26:59] wherever you go, we will give way, we will vote for it, people
[01:27:03] say, we will be with you, the nation gave this name,
[01:27:06] if you change the name given by the nation, the nation
[01:27:10] will give another name, and it will support that name,
[01:27:13] this is not an issue that is currently
[01:27:16] on our agenda, frankly, and the appeal
[01:27:20] application, they have to withdraw the appeal application, why,
[01:27:23] you ask? It is actually related to the Üsküdar issue,
[01:27:27] it had nothing to do with it, but how is it related? A decision was made there,
[01:27:30] annulment is one of the most
[01:27:34] wrong legal decisions made in Turkey, we can say,
[01:27:37] it's a strong statement, but it's really true, because this decision
[01:27:41] has no precedent, for the first time in the history
[01:27:45] of the republic, a political party was involved, and since it was
[01:27:48] not in the political parties law, they couldn't find a reason
[01:27:52] there, so they went to civil law and made an annulment
[01:27:55] decision with forced reasons, if this is approved
[01:27:59] by the Supreme Court,
[01:28:01] it means that the friend who went
[01:28:05] door to door in Üsküdar saying "hello, we are here now,
[01:28:08] we are neighbors" will not be able to stay there
[01:28:11] because it will set a precedent, it will set a precedent,
[01:28:14] even if the Supreme Court makes this decision and
[01:28:17] they withdraw the appeal application, even if we withdraw
[01:28:21] our appeal application, the Supreme Court must
[01:28:25] discuss this issue and eliminate this legal absurdity,
[01:28:29] because if it doesn't, from now on, no
[01:28:32] election in Turkey, neither an association election
[01:28:35] nor a general election, can become official,
[01:28:38] it cannot be finalized, the Supreme Court cannot approve
[01:28:42] this, so did it take this step, this legal step,
[01:28:45] to prevent this decision from reaching the Supreme Court?
[01:28:48] Okay, then everyone knows that it has to be overturned,
[01:28:52] from the moment the Supreme Court made this decision, there
[01:28:56] is no longer a Supreme Election Board,
[01:28:59] a court can make a wrong decision, that's why there
[01:29:02] are higher courts, there is an appeal, there is the
[01:29:06] Constitutional Court, etc. A court can make a wrong decision,
[01:29:10] but if the Supreme Court approves this decision,
[01:29:14] no election in Turkey can be finalized after this.
[01:29:17] You can also make an application about an election 10 years ago,
[01:29:21] we can also make an application about one 4 years ago. It won't
[01:29:24] happen because it cannot be finalized. Furthermore,
[01:29:27] after you approve this in the Supreme
[01:29:30] Court, after Tahsim Bey's statement
[01:29:33] in Üsküdar. "there must be an annulment there
[01:29:36] immediately, what is annulment? The election must be cancelled,
[01:29:40] if we say the election is void, then Ms. Sibel,
[01:29:43] Sibel Can Çetinkaya must go back and sit in the Üsküdar
[01:29:47] mayor's office, in my opinion, the annulment
[01:29:50] decision that should be taken is for Ms. Sinem to come and sit
[01:29:54] there, let's say for the last election, this must be removed
[01:29:57] after Tasim Bey's statement, that's why
[01:30:00] they wanted to prevent this decision from the Supreme Court,
[01:30:04] but again, not the Republican People's
[01:30:07] Party, even Özgür Özel as the party
[01:30:11] affected, even if he withdraws the appeal application
[01:30:14] he made, the Supreme Court must
[01:30:17] discuss this legal absurdity for all previous and future
[01:30:21] elections in Turkey and eliminate
[01:30:24] it. CHP spokesman Müslüm says, "My dear professors,
[01:30:28] they are withdrawing it to be able to start the general
[01:30:32] assembly process. This is why we are giving
[01:30:35] up this case, but they were saying there
[01:30:39] is a precaution, there is a case in the Supreme Court, that's why
[01:30:43] takvimi bir an önce başlatabilmek için biz bu adım attık
[01:30:46] deniliyor eee ama kulislerde de ona
[01:30:49] bakarsanız Kemal Bey de ben bu bullan olayının hiçbir yerinde
[01:30:52] yokum diyor evet Şammir Bey de çıktı çıkacak dedi
[01:30:56] bu karar için geçen gün tweet attı x hesabından benhurbaşkanı
[01:31:00] da aynı şeyi söyledi evet.
[01:31:03] "ben benzerlik var söyleme Uğur Bey derin bir nefes
[01:31:06] aldı, siz söyleyince cümleyi hatırlat,
[01:31:10] şey Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, butlanın içinde yokum,
[01:31:14] hiçbir yerinde yokum dedi, bana
[01:31:17] göre her tarafında var, bu benim şahsi
[01:31:20] kanaatim, her tarafında onun rızası
[01:31:23] olmadan hiçbir kimse yani
[01:31:26] siyasette hiçbir adım böyle tesadüfi olarak
[01:31:29] değerlendirilemiyor, şimdi pazar günü ben burada ana habermış. Cumartesi akşamı
[01:31:33] üst düzey yargı mensubu dostlarımla görüştüm, karar hazır ekim ya da
[01:31:37] kasım başında işte mutlak Butlan kararı yargıtaydan çıkacak.
[01:31:40] Kemal Bey diyelim ki dediği doğru, eee
[01:31:44] Butlan başvurusunun hiçbir yerinde yok.
[01:31:47] Ama o süreçte çıkıp kamuoyunu
[01:31:51] aydınlatan, kamuoyunun zihnine takılan soruları
[01:31:55] cevaplandıran ve bunda tahlilinin olmadığını
[01:31:58] ifade eden açıklamalar yapabilirdi. Kemal Bey hep
[01:32:02] sustu. "kemal Bey'in suskunluğu bir
[01:32:05] anlamda bir itiraf
[01:32:07] niteliğinde. Kemal Bey Butlan davasının
[01:32:11] her yerinde olduğunuy bizim 9 tane milletvekilimiz
[01:32:15] parti meclisi kararı olmadan ihraç edildi, ben bunların hiçbir yerinde yokum
[01:32:19] diyerek gelen partinin başına oturan birisi milletvekili ihraç
[01:32:22] etmez. Olacak iş mi? Bizim il başkanlarımız ihraç
[01:32:26] edildi, ilçe başkanlarımız ihraç edildi. Sayın Gökçek olmaz
[01:32:30] dediğimiz çok şey oluyor. "bu da
[01:32:33] olmaz dediğimiz çok şey oluyor, bu kadar
[01:32:36] yeterli, o yüzden ben de size katılıyor, o
[01:32:40] zamanlar yine programlarda konuşuyorduk, cumhuriyet halk
[01:32:43] partisi iki tane kongre arka arkaya olmuş, 3 3 toplantısı 6 sene 6 sene
[01:32:47] kongre kapatılacak diye, ben dahil yeni parti kuracaksanız
[01:32:50] kurun, parti tümden kapatılırsa ne olacak ne diye
[01:32:53] konuşuyorduk, şimdi orada apar topar yani böyle bu takvime
[01:32:57] ve bu yasal sıkışıklığa bakarak yeni
[01:33:00] parti kuruldu. eee şimdi o zaman gidenler
[01:33:04] gitti, o zaman biz de şimdi onu geri çekelim, geri çekince
[01:33:08] mutlak mutlan ne olacak, yargıtay kararını beklemeden kalacak, kendi kendilerini kongre
[01:33:12] we cannot hold a general assembly,
[01:33:15] so they are saying "we took this step to start
[01:33:19] the calendar as soon as possible", but if you look at the backstage,
[01:33:23] Kemal Bey also says "I'm not involved in this annulment
[01:33:26] incident at all". Yes, Şammir Bey also came out and said
[01:33:29] it would come out for this decision, he tweeted the other
[01:34:26] to make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
[01:34:30] to show the unseen.
[01:34:32] when you say it,
[01:34:40] From the street to politics, from the market
[01:34:43] to the markets, from the stalls to the big market.
[01:34:57] We will be together in this studio every weekday morning
[01:35:01] from 7 to 10 while Turkey wakes up.
[01:35:24] We are starting the second hour, uncensored, and
[01:35:27] as of this hour, lawyer Ertun Çözün is also with us,
[01:35:30] welcome Ertun Çözün, thank you for coming, now in the first
[01:35:34] hour, we talked about the transitions, transfers, operations,
[01:35:38] investigations, the notification that came through the name
[01:35:41] that came to the new party, the new party's decision
[01:35:45] not to change the MYK today and the CHP's
[01:35:48] waiver of its appeal, but now the citizen
[01:35:51] is of course following what is happening,
[01:35:54] observing, making a reading, and public
[01:35:58] opinion polls share those readings with the public
[01:36:01] every month with their studies, now Gündemar is
[01:36:05] one of the public opinion polls that is respected
[01:36:08] and we often include the results
[01:36:11] of Gündemar's research, he shares a striking
[01:36:15] survey result. Regarding August,
[01:36:18] we are in September, and when we look at it
[01:36:21] comparatively, I'm talking about a research that has
[01:36:25] striking results that make us say "what's happening?".
[01:36:28] If there was a parliamentary election this Sunday, who would you vote for?
[01:36:32] It's a classic public opinion poll question, and
[01:36:35] in July, we saw the new party's vote share about 12 points
[01:36:38] above the AK Party's. It had a vote share
[01:36:41] of 38.58% to 27.43%.
[01:36:45] And the AK Party was declining compared to June,
[01:36:48] we are talking about a rate of 3.77%.
[01:36:51] We came to this month, the August survey,
[01:36:55] or rather, it was shared yesterday by the research
[01:36:59] firm, and we see the AK Party in the first place this
[01:37:02] time, and there is an increase of nearly 1% in its vote share.
[01:37:06] Looking at the past month, the new party has a decrease
[01:37:09] of approximately 12 points. Here, some parties
[01:37:13] have also become active. like 8.21,
[01:37:17] there is an increase of 3.65%
[01:37:19] compared to a month ago, there is an increase in the votes
[01:37:23] of the People's Party, there is an increase in the votes of the MHP,
[01:37:27] but the CHP's votes are still below 5%,
[01:37:31] meaning below the threshold, if there was an election this Sunday,
[01:37:34] now Tamer Bolat, the director of the public opinion research
[01:37:38] firm, an important figure, makes a sharing about these breakdowns,
[01:37:41] he says that in July, they measured
[01:37:45] the new party as the first party, this rate was important
[01:37:49] not only for the initial interest in a newly established party,
[01:37:52] but also for showing the level reached by the voter's
[01:37:56] search for a new political discussed this in this
[01:37:59] way. He says a strong start does not mean that a strong
[01:38:03] political position is permanent. In the framework law vote
[01:38:06] on August 10, Mr. Özel and the party management
[01:38:10] voted yes, but the majority of the
[01:38:13] deputies voted no, we will see in our August
[01:38:16] research how this stance, called Havet in the public,
[01:38:20] will affect the strong start created by the establishment
[01:38:23] of the new party, he said, and
[01:38:26] this table that emerged today, that is,
[01:38:30] the 12% decrease in the new party's votes,
[01:38:33] is attributed to the Havet stance by Tamer Bolat,
[01:38:35] this is what we understand, it seems like a very
[01:38:38] radical difference, such a one-point,
[01:38:41] two-point, three-point always these researches.
[01:38:57] I also find their results very important
[01:39:00] and noteworthy, there are a few more like that,
[01:39:04] but by the way, I think it's useful for the audience,
[01:39:07] our readers, our followers to know that there are some
[01:39:10] research companies that exist purely for manipulation
[01:39:14] and will disappear after the elections,
[01:39:17] and their purpose, I repeat, is manipulation.
[01:39:21] Now, if you notice here, there is no significant
[01:39:23] increase in the votes of the Justice
[01:39:27] and Development Party, yes,
[01:39:31] on the other hand, Mr. Özgür Özel's
[01:39:34] saying yes in the "Turkey
[01:39:37] without terrorism" vote, but
[01:39:41] leaving the members of parliament free to vote no,
[01:39:44] was not evaluated as they hoped
[01:39:48] in the public, and as a reaction, the votes
[01:39:52] somewhat shifted.
[01:39:56] From
[01:40:07] 4.56 to 8.21, it's a very striking
[01:40:11] and radical increase,
[01:40:13] the same goes for the Zafer Party, however,
[01:40:17] I evaluate this as a conjuncture
[01:40:20] choice, as long
[01:40:22] as Özgür Özel and the new party members
[01:40:25] share enlightening
[01:40:28] information on this issue with the public
[01:40:31] and explain their intentions,
[01:40:34] this trend will revert to its former state,
[01:40:38] because we see that the issues
[01:40:41] that influence the public when saying no to the ruling
[01:40:45] party have not changed at all.
[01:40:47] The economy, directly the economy,
[01:40:50] now you said when you opened the program that the price
[01:40:54] of a liter of fuel approached 100 liras.
[01:40:58] Yes, I mean, we will now
[01:41:01] be talking about three-digit numbers
[01:41:04] And in such an
[01:41:07] economy, Mr. Mehmet Şimşek,
[01:41:11] even if he were a wizard, the things he could do would be very
[01:41:14] limited, because the fuel
[01:41:17] hike affects
[01:41:19] the entire
[01:41:21] economic
[01:41:23] circulation, especially road transportation.
[01:41:27] It has a tremendous impact on our society, affecting the entire domestic market
[01:41:31] from A to Z, from A to Z,
[01:41:34] the fuel hike affects everything. Ms. Siğnem, I was recently
[01:41:38] returning from the tour of the Gırgıriye
[01:41:40] musical in Ankara. It was
[01:41:43] 2 AM. Sir, we entered the
[01:41:46] Marmara, North Marmara Highway.
[01:41:49] Suddenly, I felt like I was
[01:41:52] in Istanbul's daytime traffic. Trucks were passing
[01:41:56] from the right. Trucks were passing, and we
[01:41:59] were going so slowly,
[01:42:03] almost in first gear, at 2 AM.
[01:42:06] This kind of road transportation
[01:42:10] is affecting the economy.
[01:42:13] So,
[01:42:16] no matter how hard Mr. Mehmet Şimşek tries,
[01:42:19] and let's admit he is trying, or give him his
[01:42:23] due, he is trying very hard, but as I said,
[01:42:27] even if he were a wizard, it would be impossible to fix this under these conditions. They cannot cut public
[01:42:30] spending, but Uğur Abi cannot do anything, which means he cannot get through to certain places, which means he does not
[01:42:34] have a say in certain places. Yes, he does not have a say in certain places. We see this
[01:42:38] in the headlines of some
[01:42:41] of the pro-government newspapers, right, sir? Of course, we do.
[01:42:45] Mr. Mehmet Şimşek is criticized even by
[01:42:49] the AK Party prosecutors today. Mr. Mehmet
[01:42:52] is an economist known for making the rich richer.
[01:42:55] But in inflation, in societies with inflation,
[01:42:58] this is inevitable. The
[01:43:02] 119th richest get richer, the poor get
[01:43:05] poorer. If there are 119,865
[01:43:08] official public vehicles in a country like Germany, and this
[01:43:12] is only 12, then you should sit down and think. This
[01:43:16] will not improve easily, unfortunately, it will not. Yes, yes, I mean, have you finalized
[01:43:20] these July results, master?
[01:43:24] I consider these to be conjunctural, because there is no change
[01:43:27] in the factors and facts
[01:43:31] that will affect the preferences of the people,
[01:43:34] but on the contrary, the economy is deteriorating.
[01:43:38] There is no dynamic that would
[01:43:42] necessitate an increase in votes. Yes, the economy is still strong, despite
[01:43:46] this turbulence,
[01:43:49] despite this extraordinary rise in oil prices
[01:43:52] due to the Iran war caused by
[01:43:56] our friend Trump, there were no
[01:43:59] wounds that we could call
[01:44:02] as severe as that. Mr. Dünder made a very accurate
[01:44:05] assessment, meaning the AK Party
[01:44:08] did not create a dynamic that would
[01:44:12] cause its votes to increase, but there is a slight
[01:44:15] increase, and a significant decrease is seen
[01:44:18] in the new party's votes, according to Gündem Ara and Tamer Bolat, who says, the
[01:44:21] public opinion poll conducted in the first month,
[01:44:24] it will become clear whether it is a result
[01:44:28] of the excitement for a new party or people looking for an alternative.
[01:44:31] Indeed, it seems to have turned out that way. How do you evaluate this, Mr.
[01:44:35] Gökçek? Well,
[01:44:38] if we were to say that based on this analysis,
[01:44:42] the framework law was approved by our
[01:44:45] Chairman and his administration, and some MPs voted no,
[01:44:49] and they faced backlash for this, and
[01:44:53] that this is an
[01:44:56] invalid claim or assessment,
[01:45:00] then we would be disrespecting
[01:45:02] the reactions we received from our circles, from society,
[01:45:06] and from our parties, as well as the sensitivities
[01:45:10] of the entire society. Yes, we also received reactions
[01:45:13] on this matter, that's true.
[01:45:16] I even agree with this assessment.
[01:45:19] A new party was formed,
[01:45:22] a new excitement. Naturally, it is also true
[01:45:26] that its votes are higher than expected in the polls.
[01:45:30] This will settle down a bit over time, then it might rise again,
[01:45:33] and perhaps fall again, but for Turkey,
[01:45:37] it faced its first serious issue.
[01:45:40] The new party was formed and immediately faced
[01:45:43] a test regarding a 50-year-old problem
[01:45:47] of Turkey. Here,
[01:45:50] in his speech when our Chairman said yes,
[01:45:53] he explained why we said
[01:45:56] yes, even though we perhaps deserved to say no the most.
[01:46:00] Of course, this may not have fully resonated
[01:46:03] with society. Here, naturally,
[01:46:07] everyone, the Republican People's Party, yes.
[01:46:13] Seeing that some MPs voted no, they might have made
[01:46:16] an emotional decision at first,
[01:46:20] but I think when this is
[01:46:23] explained properly to society, society will clearly
[01:46:27] understand why the Republican People's Party made such a decision
[01:46:31] for a new party. Why do I say this?
[01:46:34] Because our district organizations are being established,
[01:46:37] and we are visiting our district presidencies.
[01:46:41] We are conducting field visits. For example, we said we would be in all
[01:46:44] 81 provinces with all our MPs. I am going
[01:46:47] to Ağrı tomorrow with our Istanbul MP, Türken Elçi.
[01:46:51] In Ağrı, I am sure
[01:46:54] I will meet citizens who ask why we said yes,
[01:46:58] and citizens who ask why some MPs said no.
[01:47:01] I believe we will be able to explain
[01:47:05] very clearly to both types of citizens why we said yes and why we said no.
[01:47:08] I think the MPs voted no,
[01:47:24] and we will overturn this. Still,
[01:47:27] stating all this upfront, the new
[01:47:31] party's
[01:47:34] loss of nearly 12% of votes
[01:47:38] is truly interesting to me. I'm not saying there was
[01:47:41] a distortion here, but every poll has a margin
[01:47:45] of error. I think the margin of error is high here.
[01:47:49] Why, Mr. Gökçek? Also, some citizens confuse
[01:47:52] the Republican People's Party with the new party.
[01:47:55] I believe that out of habit, they answer
[01:47:59] "Republican People's Party." But if the pollster
[01:48:02] insists and says,
[01:48:05] "They separated, Özgür Özel founded the new party. The Republican People's Party
[01:48:10] remained with Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu," then they say, "Oh, okay."
[01:48:14] Something caught my attention on social media sometimes.
[01:48:17] I see in street interviews, "If there were elections this Sunday, who would you vote for?"
[01:48:20] A significant number of citizens say "Özgür Özel."
[01:48:24] So, there is a segment that says "Özgür Özel"
[01:48:27] directly, without mentioning the party name. But
[01:48:31] of course, what you said is important. If we look
[01:48:35] at the August poll, not July,
[01:48:38] then something like this emerges. Now, the AKP and
[01:48:42] MHP, who brought this bill. The AKP MHP,
[01:48:45] who brought this proposal. They would have increased
[01:48:48] their votes. It is very normal for the Dem
[01:48:51] Party to increase its votes. Perhaps there were Dem Party
[01:48:55] members who didn't think this process could be solved, but when it came to a solution,
[01:48:58] they said yes and supported it again. But the MHP
[01:49:00] base will do this. Moreover, let me tell you
[01:49:04] something else. Ultimately, the New Party's
[01:49:07] base and the Republican People's Party's base are
[01:49:10] the same people. When we look at it, they just separated a month
[01:49:13] ago and formed the new party,
[01:49:16] and many Republican People's Party
[01:49:20] supporters joined the new party,
[01:49:23] as did different groups. And now,
[01:49:26] the Republican People's Party increasing its votes by 2%
[01:49:30] is a bit interesting here. Let's say AKP and
[01:49:33] MHP were leading this,
[01:49:36] and people reacted with something different,
[01:49:39] then okay. While the new party and the Republican People's Party's base
[01:49:43] think similarly, let's say, that close,
[01:49:46] that intertwined, a 12% loss
[01:49:49] there is a 5% loss
[01:49:53] here, and we are talking about 5% of 2%, which is almost 40%
[01:49:57] increase in votes, which is a bit interesting, honestly. Gökçek,
[01:50:00] the Republican People's Party's votes
[01:50:03] were determined as 4.99%. 1%
[01:50:07] corresponds to 500,000
[01:50:09] voters, so it comes out to
[01:50:13] about 2.5 million
[01:50:16] voters for the Republican.
[01:50:17] We see from its activities
[01:50:22] that sometimes the halls are not full,
[01:50:25] and it is clear from the public reaction
[01:50:29] that we, public opinion pollsters and journalists, are also tasked
[01:50:32] with reflecting the voice of the public,
[01:50:35] and when we take that photograph, we do not encounter
[01:50:38] such a reality on the streets.
[01:50:42] Actually, the Republican seems to have shown a 100%
[01:50:45] increase.
[01:50:52] When July is taken into account, the new party's vote loss is 30% compared to the previous
[01:50:56] rate,
[01:50:59] because as Mr. Uğur said, there are still people who see the Republican People's Party with Mr. Özgür Özel,
[01:51:03] or continue with their habits. Indeed, Mr. Ali just
[01:51:06] mentioned the Republican.
[01:51:07] But it does have some effect.
[01:51:11] For example, if you say that all of the Republican People's Party's 4.499%
[01:51:15] votes were given incorrectly, and you add them,
[01:51:18] then the decrease would go down to 7.5-8%.
[01:51:31] Before I came here today, I spoke with some Republican People's Party
[01:51:34] members, and they also believe
[01:51:38] it is conjunctural.
[01:51:43] This is also true. For example, I spoke with a few pollsters,
[01:51:46] or rather, not a few, but two poll company owners.
[01:51:50] For example, in some polls, the Good Party
[01:51:53] is seen at 8.21. There are those who show 9.16. There are also those who show 13.2.
[01:51:57] 13.2. So, these kinds of deviations
[01:52:01] in polls happen, of course. However, if we take
[01:52:04] this as a reference, that is, if we base it on this table,
[01:52:08] the Justice and Development Party seems
[01:52:11] to have reached a saturation point, as they say, a satisfaction point.
[01:52:14] That is, it is not 32-33.
[01:52:18] Now, as you said, the moving
[01:52:22] of the new party. Now, regarding the votes
[01:52:25] of the new party, I totally agree with the "Turkey without terror"
[01:52:29] framework law and so on, but I think here, it's not so much that the framework law
[01:52:32] received a "yes," and I said "yes" and left my friends
[01:52:36] free, but rather
[01:52:39] that this is not about Turkey. This has been discussed. If
[01:52:43] the voter, to some extent, follows this as carefully
[01:52:46] as we do, then there hasn't been a terror incident
[01:52:50] in Turkey for a long time. This is actually
[01:52:53] about the American Ambassador's appearance,
[01:52:56] and its drawing
[01:52:59] within a perspective that covers the region.
[01:53:02] In other words, Turkey will not only maintain peace
[01:53:06] domestically, but also a hegemonic structure in Syria
[01:53:09] and a hegemonic structure in Iran, and it is claimed
[01:53:13] that it will be a country that has solved this problem in the region,
[01:53:16] that it will be a country that has solved the problems
[01:53:20] in the region, even if I don't
[01:53:24] think so. The claim is that
[01:53:28] the voter looks at it like this: this is a very
[01:53:31] important issue, concerning Syria, Iran, Iraq, and all
[01:53:35] of them. Then the main opposition must
[01:53:38] have a homogenous view here. The general chairman thinks differently,
[01:53:42] the party's MPs think differently. I think
[01:53:46] that rather than yes or no, the main opposition, a party
[01:53:49] that is a candidate for power, not having a homogenous pact
[01:53:52] view plays a role. Sir, this table also shows
[01:53:56] the impact of general polarization
[01:54:00] on every issue. That could also be
[01:54:02] the case. Now, regarding
[01:54:05] a Turkey without terror, some
[01:54:08] citizens want
[01:54:12] it to be rejected. Yes, they want
[01:54:16] it to be rejected. But when you look
[01:54:19] at the realities, you see
[01:54:23] that there are very important reasons to say yes. Therefore,
[01:54:27] I believe that politicians,
[01:54:30] even risking losing votes, must take
[01:54:33] certain steps for the benefit of Turkey.
[01:54:37] I evaluate that this polarization
[01:54:40] in voter preferences is reflected.
[01:54:44] You are right on that point. For example, the AK Party
[01:54:47] always kept its distance from the process.
[01:54:51] The AK Party kept its distance from the process. If there was a political risk
[01:54:55] taken here, it was taken by the MHP leader, Mr. Bahçeli. From time to time, there
[01:54:58] were decreases in vote rates according to these polls.
[01:55:02] The most groundbreaking statements and steps
[01:55:05] came from Mr. Bahçeli. Therefore, what you said is important. I also
[01:55:09] agree on different ruptures, but this
[01:55:13] didn't proceed gradually, that is,
[01:55:17] in a way that would generate social consent and be explained
[01:55:20] very well. It went too fast. For example, maybe it's not our topic
[01:55:24] today, but for example, in an interview given by Devlet Bahçeli
[01:55:27] to a journalist the other day, whose name I don't want to mention again, he said
[01:55:31] things like houses are being built. For example, was Mr. President aware
[01:55:35] of that? Was it said just like that? If it was said
[01:55:38] without his knowledge, then did they want to accelerate
[01:55:41] this process and involve Mr. President more like a catalyst?
[01:55:45] That is, Mr. Bahçeli made these moves
[01:55:48] at the right time, meaning "let's go."
[01:55:52] He made statements meaning "let's go." And now,
[01:55:55] this also means that we are talking about
[01:55:59] summary executions here, aren't we? We are talking about
[01:56:02] unjust arrests,
[01:56:05] On the other hand, we are talking about
[01:56:09] what a two-story mansion of a terrorist organization
[01:56:12] leader will do. Now,
[01:56:15] those who say no to this, those who say no,
[01:56:19] have so many valid reasons that I think
[01:56:22] not explaining this well and not generating social
[01:56:25] consent is an important parameter. This is very, very important. This needs to be explained.
[01:56:29] We are talking about Turkey's 40-year painful history.
[01:56:32] If 40 years have been wasted.
[01:56:35] Those under 50 don't know under what conditions
[01:56:39] and how terrorism started
[01:56:43] and what suffering it caused. But now, my dear Sinem, this is
[01:56:46] only one aspect. For example, if there really
[01:56:50] is this decrease, that is, it changes according to
[01:56:53] each poll company. Also, I agree with Uğur Abi that this can also be conjunctural.
[01:56:57] You never know what the next poll says. For example, the Good Party
[01:57:01] here, the new party
[01:57:04] is 38. There's no
[01:57:07] 28. It's written incorrectly,
[01:57:10] it's 26.95. Okay, 26.95. For example, if you look at the next poll,
[01:57:14] it might show 32.43 in Gündem Hard, or 32.45. So it can be conjunctural,
[01:57:18] but this is only one parameter. For example,
[01:57:21] I hope that for example,
[01:57:25] Greece has come to the island of Lesbos. I will be very brief. This is not
[01:57:28] another topic. Yes, sir, there is also Ankara's research. Yes, for example, he came
[01:57:32] to the island of Lesbos, Mitsotakis is showing off
[01:57:35] there. He wants to besiege Turkey from Dedeağaç
[01:57:38] to Crete. He signed the Achilles Shield agreement again
[01:57:42] with Israel, and also with Southern Cyprus.
[01:57:45] So, in the Eastern Mediterranean, exploration continues
[01:57:49] in blocks belonging to Turkey. On the other hand,
[01:57:52] there is still the 12-mile dispute. Now, if I were the new party,
[01:57:56] I would say, "Turkey must immediately take initiative
[01:57:59] in the islands whose status has not been determined." Look,
[01:58:03] for example, on the other hand.
[01:58:07] Of course, initiatives regarding Syria, or what does it mean?
[01:58:10] We call on the government, we are behind you all the way,
[01:58:14] let's act together. Turkey should immediately start natural
[01:58:18] gas exploration in its own blocks in the Mediterranean. Don't exploit
[01:58:21] the Mediterranean. Let's see how Turkey becomes a united
[01:58:25] body when you raise the 12 miles. I personally hope
[01:58:28] that they will also make moves in foreign policy. That is,
[01:58:31] I want to say this without deviating from the topic.
[01:58:41] Now, do you have anything to add here, Ertun Çözün, or should I continue with Ankara's?
[01:58:44] Now, Ankara has also done a comprehensive study
[01:58:48] regarding the voting behavior of voters who voted for the AK Party
[01:58:51] in the 2023 elections, regarding voter reflexes.
[01:58:54] I will share with you the results
[01:58:57] of a very comprehensive research. Let's quickly
[01:59:01] look at the details. Who would vote for the AK Party today,
[01:59:05] who voted for them in 2023? One of the August 2026
[01:59:08] researches says that 64.9%
[01:59:12] would vote for the AK Party again. Undecided protest
[01:59:15] is 24%. This is important. There is a 10%
[01:59:18] segment that says they would vote for other parties.
[01:59:22] Now, when you put 24%
[01:59:25] and 10% side by side, it points to a 35%
[01:59:29] vote potential. This actually brings us
[01:59:33] to the question of what would happen if there were an election this Sunday.
[01:59:36] It is that gray area that will determine
[01:59:39] the outcome of the election. How will the undecided
[01:59:42] voters react at the ballot box? 10%
[01:59:45] are asked which parties
[01:59:58] they prefer to vote for. 1.8% say Dem Party,
[02:00:01] 1.4% say MHP, the rate of those
[02:00:03] who say key party is 1.1%,
[02:00:07] CHP, meaning those who say my hand won't go to the six arrows
[02:00:10] is 0.7%. Therefore, when you add
[02:00:13] this table, the fact that the New Welfare Party
[02:00:16] is 0.2% is very important. That is,
[02:00:19] there seems to be no shift to the New Welfare Party
[02:00:23] within the 10% group. And of course,
[02:00:26] Ertun Çözün, let's continue with you. We always
[02:00:29] talk about this, don't we? Will the most decisive voter
[02:00:33] group in the next election be the undecided
[02:00:36] and those who say, "I will no longer vote for my previous party?"
[02:00:40] Does the table tell you this again? 40% of AK Party
[02:00:43] voters, 40% are hesitant
[02:00:47] to vote for the AK Party again, and even consider going to different parties,
[02:00:50] 35%. That is, 35% are leaving. Yes, 35%.
[02:00:53] That is, they have started to consider other parties.
[02:00:57] We used to not see such large defections of 10%,
[02:01:00] 15% from the AK Party. There would be changes
[02:01:04] according to candidates or MP lists, but now
[02:01:08] we are talking about 35%. That is, one-third of AK Party
[02:01:11] members say, "I don't think I will vote for the AK Party again,
[02:01:15] I am looking for another alternative." Yes. When you look at other polls,
[02:01:19] actually, with the new party, there is a 30% increase
[02:01:22] in opposition votes. That is, we are talking about 30-38%
[02:01:26] at a limit that previously remained below 25%, not exceeding 25%.
[02:01:30] If I combine and interpret with the previous poll, in the previous poll as well,
[02:01:33] during that one-month period, now that we are speaking as lawyers,
[02:01:36] what has changed in our country? Have arrests
[02:01:40] changed? I just looked up what happened legally
[02:01:43] or politically during those dates. Municipal
[02:01:46] operations continued, arrests continued.
[02:01:50] While these were happening, I think the sudden change of 6-7%
[02:01:54] is just an instant reaction to a framework law. Perhaps
[02:01:58] in the September-October polls, it will continue
[02:02:01] in the 30% and above range. Indeed, we see the same
[02:02:05] in the AK Party's votes. That is, 2.7% of the 10%
[02:02:08] can go to the new party, but 2.7% is a very important
[02:02:12] rate there, isn't it? It's as much as the Republican People's Party's votes.
[02:02:15] I forgot to mention something very important about the previous poll.
[02:02:19] Taking over municipalities
[02:02:22] by the AKP using the methods we discussed earlier,
[02:02:25] does not turn the ruling party into an attraction
[02:02:29] area, a center of attraction. On the contrary, it caused
[02:02:33] its votes, which were above 30%,
[02:02:36] to fall below 30%. This might be why
[02:02:39] the undecided voters within that 24% said, "This is too much"
[02:02:42] after the Üsküdar election. That is, even those I know say,
[02:02:46] "This is too much." Arrest one, transfer another,
[02:02:49] detain another. You are directing the undecided
[02:02:53] to the other side with your unlawful
[02:02:56] judgments. Besides this, there is an economic reality.
[02:03:00] There is an economic reality that is getting worse and worse.
[02:03:04] These people no longer believe that the AK Party is the one
[02:03:07] that will change things. It has started to decrease.
[02:03:10] 35% of AK Party members themselves have decreased in this regard.
[02:03:14] If it continues in this direction, I think that despite this decrease,
[02:03:17] my graph will continue to jump up again. But
[02:03:21] Ali Gökçek, now this 34%, that is,
[02:03:23] when we add up the undecided protest and the voters
[02:03:27] who switched to other parties, we get a rate of 34%.
[02:03:30] Now, the voter says that 65 out of 100 AK Party
[02:03:34] voters say, "I will vote for my political party again, no matter
[02:03:38] the climate." But 35 people out of 100 say,
[02:03:41] "Wait a minute, I am undecided, I haven't made my decision yet."
[02:03:45] But what kind of position will they take when they go to the ballot box?
[02:03:48] Will they react with a sense of party affiliation?
[02:03:52] But 10% also say, "No, I'm done with the AK Party,
[02:03:55] I won't vote for them again." And we see a 2.7%
[02:03:58] new party tendency. How will this affect
[02:04:01] it? Well, I was just going to look
[02:04:04] on my phone, what was the AK Party's vote share
[02:04:08] in 2023? 2023. Yes, what was
[02:04:11] the AK Party's percentage?
[02:04:14] 30%. One minute, 30.
[02:04:18] 30-33? 32.8.
[02:04:22] Let's take it from 83 for easy calculation.
[02:04:25] Let's make 165 66%. That is, two-thirds,
[02:04:29] two-thirds of it makes 22%. We are talking
[02:04:32] about the August poll. In the previous August poll, the AKP
[02:04:35] was shown as 28%. In the previous company's August
[02:04:39] poll, that's why there can be differences
[02:04:42] between companies and polls. But there is something there,
[02:04:45] my dear.
[02:04:49] From the undecided voters, for example, 24-25
[02:04:51] or close to 30. If we consider one-third of the undecided to be distributed
[02:04:54] equally among the parties they received, you need to add that too.
[02:04:58] We won't be able to distribute that 60 in the same proportion, but
[02:05:02] this time, I don't know, but 24 is not a small number.
[02:05:05] Okay, if we divide that 24 equally
[02:05:09] among the political parties here, how many are there? 3, 5, 7,
[02:05:12] 10. If you put two points each, it becomes a distribution
[02:05:16] close to 5%. Sir, now regarding
[02:05:19] the new party, if we come to the new party's 2.7%,
[02:05:22] this will increase much
[02:05:26] more because it's still new. we are just
[02:05:30] starting to explain what the party wants to do in economic
[02:05:33] terms, in agricultural terms, in health, in national
[02:05:36] education, in foreign policy, what it
[02:05:39] aims to achieve. Our congresses are still ongoing,
[02:05:43] and after these congresses settle down
[02:05:46] and our establishment process is fully completed, we will explain
[02:05:50] what we want to do. Now, in the 2023
[02:05:53] elections, I never forget, I always tell the story,
[02:05:56] I went to a cafe during an election
[02:06:00] visit. It was both an association and a place that people
[02:06:03] used as a cafe to sit. I said that after the election,
[02:06:07] diesel would be 20 liras. An elder brother came up and said,
[02:06:10] "Don't even start talking if you're going to lie to us.
[02:06:13] It won't be 20. Come here and tell us what
[02:06:16] you're going to do yourself." He said, "It won't be 20, don't come to us with these
[02:06:20] things." Today, diesel is 96 liras.
[02:06:24] So, imagine that when I said
[02:06:27] it would be 20 liras, there was a crowd that reacted
[02:06:31] to me like that. It became 96 liras, and
[02:06:34] right after the election, it was already 20 liras, that's a separate issue.
[02:06:38] When we come to this, seeing this and
[02:06:41] still having only 10% of the AKP voters
[02:06:44] go to other parties, I think is a good
[02:06:48] result for the AKP. I don't think
[02:06:51] they can manage this until the election. Moreover,
[02:06:55] the undecided
[02:06:57] voters, yes, we can distribute a certain percentage of the undecided,
[02:07:01] but there is no reason
[02:07:03] for the undecided to start tending to vote for the AKP
[02:07:07] again. Oh, wait a minute, let me make a note of this.
[02:07:11] Under normal circumstances, we conduct
[02:07:14] a survey. After asking about all parties,
[02:07:17] a group of undecided voters emerges, and we distribute a certain
[02:07:21] proportion of those. But we are asking among those
[02:07:24] who are undecided about voting for the AKP,
[02:07:27] who previously voted for the AKP. There's nothing to make them
[02:07:30] tend to vote for the AKP again. Here's the thing:
[02:07:34] if you don't provide alternatives, people might turn
[02:07:38] to the AKP again. This is where we see the effect
[02:07:42] of the new party being new and not having fully
[02:07:46] explained itself to the public. As time
[02:07:48] progresses, there will be shifts from 24% to 10%,
[02:07:52] and those shifts to 10% will be in favor of the new party.
[02:07:55] Professor Mithat, please. Of course,
[02:07:59] there is something called voter behavior, which is a separate discipline.
[02:08:02] We take our associate professorship exam on voter behavior. This
[02:08:06] is one of the important aspects of political sociology.
[02:08:09] Now, if we are speaking arrogantly as we talk about voters,
[02:08:12] I hope our professors will excuse us. No, not at all. Now,
[02:08:16] it's like this: there's no such thing as saying the 24% undecided
[02:08:19] won't go there, which goes against statistics.
[02:08:23] If a voter doesn't find a very strong alternative, they say, "I won't
[02:08:26] give up," just like despite diesel reaching 96 liras.
[02:08:29] "Two-thirds of those who voted for the Justice and Development
[02:08:32] Party haven't budged. They haven't budged, two-thirds of them.
[02:08:36] They say, 'I'd rather die than give up.'" Look, when we can't solve
[02:08:39] this, we're just talking in vain. We need to solve this.
[02:08:43] Where does it stem from? It means we're not explaining
[02:08:46] something well. I always emphasize that we're not explaining something
[02:08:50] well. Even if I explain the whole lesson, if the class average is
[02:08:53] 32-38, I'm blaming myself, not the students.
[02:08:57] It means I'm not explaining it well, they're misunderstanding something."
[02:09:01] I'm explaining it incompletely. However, Professor,
[02:09:03] let's not forget the existence of a significant segment
[02:09:07] of society whose lives and living standards
[02:09:09] depend on the Justice and Development Party being in power.
[02:09:13] Also, election expenditures and election promises will
[02:09:17] influence undecided voters. For example, the main
[02:09:20] target, 4,863,000 families receive aid.
[02:09:24] 4,860,000 families. When you look at it per person,
[02:09:27] 17,785 people
[02:09:30] directly receive aid, money, coal, pasta, bags, and various aid.
[02:09:33] There are 20 million people in Turkey, and 50-55 million voters.
[02:09:37] You enter the election with about 23%. Now, for example,
[02:09:40] we discuss this on television, right? In the media.
[02:09:44] Okay, the entire media's weight isn't on the side of the opposition,
[02:09:47] but opposition channels attract a stronger audience
[02:09:51] than other channels, just like we're doing tonight.
[02:09:55] For example, the IYI Party doesn't use the media at all.
[02:09:58] It's the same as the new party. 2.7% of the 10%
[02:10:02] who said they wouldn't vote for the Justice and Development Party came to the new party,
[02:10:06] and two went to the IYI Party. This is essentially
[02:10:09] something. So, in its
[02:10:12] distribution, it should be around 4.8 for the new party,
[02:10:16] I think. The others should be around 1.2,
[02:10:19] 0.8. So, I don't understand this.
[02:10:23] The fact that 65% of the segment is staying
[02:10:26] in the same place, saying "I'd rather die than leave,"
[02:10:30] isn't that a sign of a change in government?
[02:10:33] It's not enough. Now, most of it
[02:10:37] is done with... there's also this parameter: it's done by phone.
[02:10:40] State officials... "If I'm not going to vote for the Justice
[02:10:44] and Development Party, I can say AKP, or Justice and Development Party, because
[02:10:47] most of these are done by phone. We take that into account,
[02:10:51] but here, the people wait five more years
[02:10:55] with hope, they wait five more years. We no longer have the patience
[02:10:58] to wait. All of us, we live in this country.
[02:11:02] I am also trying to make a living in this country. I also want
[02:11:05] to look to the future with hope. I want every student I teach
[02:11:09] to stay in this country without leaving. So,
[02:11:12] we need to get out of this without making a mistake.
[02:11:15] In that respect, I'm saying this: for example, let's
[02:11:19] not get stuck on this being just a framework law. You need
[02:11:23] to have something to say in foreign policy, which we will,
[02:11:26] which is good. You need to have something to say in the economy, and just saying
[02:11:30] it isn't enough. You can't just say 'I will give every retiree at least
[02:11:33] the minimum wage.' You have to tell them where you'll find the resources
[02:11:36] for all of this. You'll tell them like a pill. You'll go door-to-door,
[02:11:40] explain it. For example, if the general chairman is to be elected by members
[02:11:43] at the congress, you'll show everyone as an example
[02:11:47] how democracy is being extended. Everyone will take you as an example.
[02:11:50] If all these can be implemented quickly, there's still a big
[02:11:54] chance, I think. But if there's such inertia and
[02:11:57] internal party conflicts, nothing will happen.
[02:12:01] And of course, politics is about power.
[02:12:04] Power politics, they say, is about power. Why am I saying
[02:12:08] this? For example, 26 municipalities
[02:12:10] were taken over illegally, of course...
[02:12:16] 16 of them have been taken, for example,
[02:12:18] Üsküdar.
[02:12:23] Now, if I were the general chairman, I would quietly protest with 500,000 people, without
[02:12:26] hurting anyone, without shouting, without injuring anyone.
[02:12:29] I would quietly protest. Don't leave for three days.
[02:12:32] Sit on the pavements at Üsküdar Municipality, I would say.
[02:12:36] This needs to be a more effective protest.
[02:12:39] Something is being discussed there. 3 days, 5,000
[02:12:43] people gave support, then they dispersed. Another operation in another
[02:12:46] district is being discussed, but 1,
[02:12:50] 2, 8, 11, 14, 16 have gone. Now the voters also
[02:12:53] see this. You won, but the voters are tired, Professor.
[02:12:57] Mr. Özel might not be aware of this, or he might be.
[02:13:01] I mean, telling the voters to go and wait there for 3 days, then go and wait
[02:13:04] at Saraçhane, then go to Istanbul University, then go with your diploma...
[02:13:08] the citizens are tired. But there were over 100 rallies.
[02:13:11] They filled all of them. So,
[02:13:14] if directed, the voter participates.
[02:13:18] I'm saying all these things so that this entire
[02:13:21] opposition wave can be better united
[02:13:25] and grow within the framework of law. I understand.
[02:13:28] Now, one of the most talked about names in recent days
[02:13:32] is the Mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality, Mansur Yavaş.
[02:13:35] After his visit to the President at Beştepe last week,
[02:13:38] especially with the ongoing investigation against him,
[02:13:42] he might join the AK Party, or even İsmet Büyükataman,
[02:13:46] one of the prominent figures of the MHP, if I'm mistaken, Alper should
[02:13:49] correct me. He wrote an article saying, "Don't be surprised
[02:13:52] if he joins the AK Party tomorrow or the day after." Today, Abdülkadir Selvi,
[02:13:56] one of the journalists known for his closeness to the government,
[02:14:00] shared his predictions regarding Mansur Yavaş's roadmap
[02:14:04] and wrote an article. My director, Murat Erdoğan, the article...
[02:14:08] Was it Yıldıray Çiçek? Sorry, I apologize to Mr. İsmet.
[02:14:12] It was Yıldıray Çiçek. He said, "No one should be surprised
[02:14:15] if he joins the AK Party tomorrow," Yıldıray Çiçek said.
[02:14:18] Abdülkadir Bey says that many things are being discussed
[02:14:21] in Ankara's political circles regarding Mansur Yavaş. It is said that he said,
[02:14:25] "I don't want to go to prison at this age." And he
[02:14:28] justifies this as follows,
[02:14:31] Mr. Selvi: "Until the official application period for presidential
[02:14:35] candidacy begins, I will not put myself forward. When the justice application
[02:14:39] begins, no one can arrest me. At that time, society will say,
[02:14:42] 'He was arrested because he was president.'" It is said
[02:14:46] that he says, "I will not be the candidate of just the CHP
[02:14:50] and the new party, I will be the joint candidate of the opposition,
[02:14:53] the CHP, the new party, the IYI Party, and the Victory Party." This is the
[02:14:57] backstage information he shares. Ali Gökçek,
[02:15:01] wasn't he saying something while saying nothing? Now, "I will be arrested
[02:15:04] when I become a presidential candidate." I think the issue should
[02:15:08] move beyond Mr. Mansur now. Is there really not
[02:15:11] a bigger point in this article? Yes,
[02:15:15] I brought it up for that reason. Why is Mr. Mansur
[02:15:18] saying that his not wanting to go to prison
[02:15:20] is related to his presidential candidacy or his prominence
[02:15:24] in politics? This is being discussed
[02:15:26] in Ankara's political circles, and Abdülkadir Bey
[02:15:29] is bringing it to his column. So, when you become a presidential
[02:15:33] candidate, I'm sorry, let me ask my question. Does it mean
[02:15:36] you get arrested when you become a presidential candidate? So, he will be called
[02:15:40] in for questioning for writing this article,
[02:15:43] and perhaps arrested. There are many,
[02:15:46] and I'm saying this in quotation marks, genuine opposition journalists
[02:15:50] who, when they write this, when they express this, are taken
[02:15:53] into custody and arrested for publicly
[02:15:57] disseminating misleading information. What does this mean?
[02:16:00] Are we now going to associate people's presidential
[02:16:02] candidacy
[02:16:06] or their pursuing a more effective and prominent political
[02:16:09] career with whether they go to prison
[02:16:13] or not? Are we going to manage that process accordingly?
[02:16:16] If we are discussing this in Turkey, then nothing else is needed.
[02:16:20] So, according to Abdülkadir Bey, Mansur Yavaş
[02:16:24] has made a decision. I'm not talking about his
[02:16:28] statements, but he says, "I won't go to prison,
[02:16:31] so I will announce my presidential candidacy later." For example,
[02:16:35] the Mansur Yavaş I know would want to be the joint candidate
[02:16:38] of the CHP, the New Party, the IYI Party, and the Victory
[02:16:41] Party, that's correct. But Mansur
[02:16:45] Yavaş would also want to be the candidate of AK Party voters,
[02:16:48] if you ask him, and MHP voters.
[02:16:52] Let's not look at this as parties.
[02:16:55] Let's look at it as parties. Mansur Yavaş would want to be
[02:16:58] the candidate of people who feel they are MHP members. Mansur Yavaş
[02:17:01] would want to be the candidate of people who feel they are new party members.
[02:17:05] I mean, Mansur Yavaş wouldn't want to be the candidate of the general
[02:17:09] chairmen of these parties, would he? Isn't every politician like that?
[02:17:13] If I were to run for president, I would want to be the candidate
[02:17:15] of all party members. This is a very natural thing.
[02:17:18] But what does "I don't want to go to prison"
[02:17:21] mean? Mansur Bey wouldn't say that anyway.
[02:17:25] "If he were to embark on such a path, he would already take that risk.
[02:17:29] But in Turkey, why should someone who wants to be a presidential
[02:17:32] candidate risk going to prison? Why aren't we asking this question?
[02:17:36] That's the real question here. Abdülkadir Bey is already prompting
[02:17:40] this with his article. He says, "I shouldn't put my head out now.
[02:17:44] Let my politics be defined by serving the Ankara
[02:17:47] Metropolitan Municipality. Regarding the roadmap,
[02:17:51] believe nothing you haven't heard from me."
[02:17:54] "Very good. If I become a candidate, I will be arrested."
[02:17:58] I mean, isn't
[02:18:00] leading to such a conclusion? I mean, in this country,
[02:18:04] does a presidential candidate get arrested then? Should we understand this from
[02:18:08] this? Again, this question, he himself is not making this
[02:18:12] comment, he's attributing it to people, saying
[02:18:15] "this is being discussed in Ankara." He is making such an assessment.
[02:18:18] Well, I agree with Mr. Gökçek.
[02:18:21] So, the statement "if someone becomes a presidential
[02:18:25] candidate, they will definitely go to prison" should not be normalized. Yes,
[02:18:29] in fact, no pen that shapes
[02:18:32] public opinion serves its purpose.
[02:18:35] As he said, if we,
[02:18:39] as individuals known as opposition
[02:18:41] figures, were to write such a thing,
[02:18:45] an investigation would probably be launched against
[02:18:48] us immediately, and for publicly spreading false
[02:18:52] information,
[02:18:54] whatever is necessary would be done.
[02:18:58] As I said, I was in Ankara on Sunday,
[02:19:01] two Sundays ago. I first went to Ankara
[02:19:05] in 1970. Believe me,
[02:19:09] of course, I admit that the preparations for the NATO
[02:19:12] summit would play a role in this,
[02:19:16] but I was captivated by the city
[02:19:19] of Ankara. Mr. Mansur has done a very successful
[02:19:23] job as mayor.
[02:19:25] "Not only members of the new party, not only CHP members,
[02:19:29] but also those who voted for the ruling party,
[02:19:32] IYI Party members, and members of other parties
[02:19:36] would vote for such a successful mayor. Moreover,
[02:19:40] Mr. Mansur, with his rhetoric,
[02:19:43] is not someone who has ever expressed
[02:19:46] fanatic partisanship. He has always,
[02:19:50] since becoming the mayor of the metropolitan municipality,
[02:19:53] made embracing speeches to all Ankara residents.
[02:19:57] He makes statements. We need to look at Mr. Mansur
[02:20:01] in this way. I mean, when you expand
[02:20:04] Mr. Mansur's success from the Ankara scale
[02:20:07] to the entire country, it really shows that
[02:20:10] he is a very important figure. Mr. Mansur
[02:20:13] is a very successful mayor.
[02:20:16] I don't think Mr. Mansur
[02:20:19] would be
[02:20:23] experiencing fears, as Abdülkadir Selvi suggests.
[02:20:26] Already in the polls, he gets 5-6%
[02:20:30] of the votes from the Justice and Development Party as well.
[02:20:33] When he becomes a presidential candidate, Justice and Development...
[02:20:37] Professor, I was captivated by Ankara, of course, but what
[02:20:40] your words were interrupted,
[02:20:44] and you want to continue, the problematic
[02:20:48] is being written. I mean, the fact that it's being talked about
[02:20:52] that a presidential candidate in this country goes to prison...
[02:20:56] Look, what did Ms. Özzem say? She said, "I can't live in 12 square meters,"
[02:20:59] and then she joined the AKP. What did they tell
[02:21:02] our Bayrampasa Mayor? Two days ago, they called him.
[02:21:05] A day before, they called again.
[02:21:08] They said, "I love you, brother. Look, there's an operation against you.
[02:21:12] Come join our party." He said he wouldn't budge.
[02:21:16] Today, they are prosecuting Hasan Mutlu with 700-800 years
[02:21:20] in prison. These will all happen.
[02:21:23] In the municipalities that joined the AKP last time,
[02:21:26] there are no operations. Those who didn't join
[02:21:29] will be prosecuted with 700-800 years. Someone will join the AKP
[02:21:33] because they said they couldn't stay in 12 square meters.
[02:21:37] Our presidential candidate will be arrested on the day
[02:21:40] we nominated him in the pre-election, after asking all citizens,
[02:21:43] in a pre-election where 15.5 million people voted.
[02:21:47] His image, his voice, his social media
[02:21:50] accounts, all of them
[02:21:53] will be banned. His defense will be banned.
[02:21:56] The book he wrote to publicize his defense
[02:21:59] will be banned. It won't be enough.
[02:22:02] The tea he drank while waiting for the hearing
[02:22:06] at the courthouse he went to ask a question from
[02:22:09] will be banned. The league match he watched
[02:22:12] will be banned. Yes, these will happen.
[02:22:16] And then, someone considering presidential
[02:22:19] candidacy will have to risk going to prison, of course.
[02:22:22] An article like this comes out here, this understanding
[02:22:25] comes out. Saying "I don't want to go to prison"
[02:22:28] means that if you're thinking of running
[02:22:32] for president, you'll have to risk going to prison.
[02:22:36] The mere writing of this is...
[02:22:47] Director, please,
[02:22:47] can I request
[02:22:52] the article again? Look, he says, "Many things are being talked
[02:22:55] about in Ankara's political circles about us." He says "talked about,"
[02:22:58] meaning hearsay. "It is said that he said, 'I don't want
[02:23:02] to go to prison at this age.'" We don't know if it's true or not.
[02:23:05] If it's true, then
[02:23:08] this means suicide. If it's true, it means political
[02:23:11] suicide. But if it's not true, and
[02:23:14] I believe it's not true, if it's not true, then it's not
[02:23:18] subliminal, Mr. Selvi is sending an open message:
[02:23:22] "If you don't pledge allegiance, you'll go to prison." Can such a thing
[02:23:25] be true? In fact, this is what is desired.
[02:23:29] For example, if we were to ask the audience now, is there a similarity
[02:23:33] between the article written by Abdülkadir Selvi about Mansur
[02:23:36] Yavaş and the repeat election in Adalar Municipality?
[02:23:39] What common ground would emerge? To intimidate people
[02:23:43] into reconsidering even the thought
[02:23:46] of candidacy. To make the opposition
[02:23:49] unable to find a candidate, to strip them of candidates.
[02:23:52] Now, I don't think
[02:23:55] Mansur Yavaş would say such a thing because
[02:23:58] it would be political suicide. But here it clearly
[02:24:02] states that you must pledge allegiance and do what they say.
[02:24:06] Now, this is something that can be discussed, it's such
[02:24:09] a conjuncture that incidents are happening in Üsküdar Municipality,
[02:24:13] arrests are still continuing in many district municipalities.
[02:24:16] Within this whole conjuncture, why did the President say
[02:24:20] "come immediately" when Mansur Yavaş requested an appointment,
[02:24:23] not for the 9 September founding anniversary of the Republican
[02:24:27] People's Party? This needs to be evaluated.
[02:24:30] Okay, let's talk and finish the second hour. I'm asking
[02:24:34] Uğur Dündar for another half hour, as you were supposed to leave at 22:00, but it's important.
[02:24:37] We will discuss an important
[02:24:49] topic shortly: which public institutions and organizations give advertisements
[02:24:52] to which television channels, according to whom, and on what basis?
[02:24:56] Mahmut Tanal, New Party Deputy
[02:24:57] for Şanlıurfa, asked, but Şimşek did not answer.
[02:25:50] Şahin, I would like to say
[02:25:51] hello to you too.
[02:25:54] Your voice is not coming through. It would be great if you could turn on your microphone.
[02:25:58] Now, at this hour, we have an issue to discuss,
[02:26:02] and we would like to hear the opinions of dear Bengü
[02:26:05] and our other colleagues on this matter. Now,
[02:26:08] the advertising budgets that institutions and companies
[02:26:12] operating with public funds allocate to television
[02:26:16] channels have now become a matter for parliament.
[02:26:20] The new party's Şanlıurfa deputy asked Şimşek
[02:26:23] in a parliamentary question: "Which public institutions
[02:26:26] and organizations' advertisements are you distributing to which
[02:26:30] television channels, according to whom, and on what basis?"
[02:26:33] Mehmet Şimşek's answer came as an interesting one.
[02:26:36] May I request his answer, dear director Murat Erdoğan?
[02:26:40] The question is: "What is the annual distribution
[02:26:43] of advertising and promotion budgets transferred to television
[02:26:46] channels by Turkish Airlines, Ziraat Bank, Halk Bank,
[02:26:50] Vakıfbank, Botaş, and other companies with majority
[02:26:53] public capital in the last 5 years, broken down by institution
[02:26:57] and channel? Which objective criteria
[02:27:00] are taken as a basis when determining advertising
[02:27:04] and promotion budgets? For example, are ratings, reach, target
[02:27:07] audience, cost, effectiveness analysis, and independent media
[02:27:10] planning reports taken into account?" Mehmet Şimşek shares the joint
[02:27:14] answer of the three banks. The banks in question state:
[02:27:18] "The sharing of publicly
[02:27:29] disclosed bank financial data is not possible as
[02:27:33] it is considered a bank and customer secret
[02:27:36] under articles 73 and 159."
[02:27:39] Now, I don't understand this, dear Bengüşap Babaeker.
[02:27:43] Mahmut Tanal isn't asking how much money each person has in these banks.
[02:27:47] Yes. He's asking which channels
[02:27:50] these bank advertisements go to, and why. What's wrong with sharing this?
[02:27:53] Now, they base it on two articles of the banking law. We looked
[02:27:57] at both, and they're irrelevant, because no one's asking how much money
[02:28:01] anyone has, what they did, what their profit or loss is.
[02:28:04] We are asking about the expenditure item
[02:28:08] that should be the most transparent. Now, you have a product,
[02:28:12] and you want to sell more of it, reach
[02:28:15] more people, and earn more money, right?
[02:28:18] What will you do for this? You will promote
[02:28:22] yourselves in the channels that reach the widest
[02:28:25] audience. You will advertise. We would think these
[02:28:28] organizations do the same. Where should they
[02:28:32] advertise to reach more people, earn more,
[02:28:35] and reach more customers? On the most-watched channel.
[02:28:39] Now, if we are talking about news channels,
[02:28:42] Halk TV is Turkey's most-watched news channel.
[02:28:46] There is only one measurement institution, and according
[02:28:50] to its calculations, Halk TV is always first.
[02:28:53] Halk TV has not received any advertisements from public
[02:28:56] institutions for 5-6 years. So, on what basis are you giving
[02:28:59] them? Now, Mahmut Tanal also asked this: on what basis
[02:29:03] are you giving them? He talks about objective criteria,
[02:29:07] but there are no such objective criteria, because they are not
[02:29:10] giving their advertisements to the most-watched televisions
[02:29:13] or newspapers that would reach the widest customer base.
[02:29:16] To whom are they giving them? To the channels that
[02:29:20] broadcast the government's agenda and spread government propaganda.
[02:29:23] So, public funds
[02:29:26] are being transferred to only one group.
[02:29:29] What is the income from these advertisements? This is not
[02:29:33] an advertisement, it's a transfer of funds, because where do banks
[02:29:36] our taxes, you also pay that tax, Mr. Uğur also pays, I also
[02:29:40] pay, millions watching Halk TV also pay, we pay the same
[02:29:43] tax, there is a pool
[02:29:47] formed from everyone's taxes, accumulated in public institutions. And
[02:29:50] isn't it true that they protect and support the pro-government
[02:29:54] media, those pro-government media channels, in quotation marks,
[02:29:58] that resources are transferred, resources are clearly transferred,
[02:30:01] and other, like Halk TV, independent
[02:30:05] broadcasting organizations, the free media,
[02:30:08] are being punished. They are being put in an economic
[02:30:11] squeeze, you are being deprived of these resources, meaning these
[02:30:15] resources are not distributed equally.
[02:30:18] We don't even want equality. "We want it to be fair,
[02:30:21] look at the ratings, if we don't have
[02:30:24] ratings, if we don't have viewers, then don't give it,"
[02:30:27] it's said. So, the criterion here is not ratings,
[02:30:31] we understood that. The criterion here is actually whether you are broadcasting
[02:30:34] under the guidance of the government. Now, there's an interesting thing
[02:30:38] in the answer here that probably caught Mr. Dündar's attention:
[02:30:42] three banks are mentioned. It says, Ziraat Bank, Halk Bank,
[02:30:45] Vakıfbank. Mr. Dündar makes a joint statement
[02:30:49] on their behalf, Mr. Şimşek but he doesn't mention Turkish Airlines
[02:30:52] and Botaş at all. He clearly hasn't fully understood
[02:30:56] the issue of bank accounts, Mr. Şimşek. So, nobody's
[02:31:00] deposits there are being questioned, but... Hey, and there's no
[02:31:03] answer for Botaş in this reply. Why do you think not?
[02:31:07] I agree with Ms. Bengü's statement,
[02:31:09] and I will add one more point.
[02:31:13] Halk TV is first
[02:31:16] in ratings among
[02:31:19] news channels.
[02:31:22] But maybe they can say, "Brother,
[02:31:25] you may be watched a lot, but
[02:31:28] for us, viewers with high purchasing power
[02:31:31] are important." If they say, "We take
[02:31:34] this as a basis," then Halk
[02:31:37] TV is watched by all electoral
[02:31:41] strata, all citizen strata,
[02:31:45] especially by citizens with high purchasing power,
[02:31:48] in the same way. In all categories,
[02:31:51] Halk TV is always
[02:31:54] first. Therefore, I agree with
[02:31:58] Ms. Bengü again, the pro-government
[02:32:01] media is subsidized with public
[02:32:05] resources. Yes, in democracies all
[02:32:08] over the world, especially newspapers supporting
[02:32:12] the government do not sell much. Opposition
[02:32:15] newspapers gain prestige and are in demand,
[02:32:19] because journalism, by its very nature,
[02:32:22] involves opposition. Everything, when everything is
[02:32:26] fine and rosy, it's not news.
[02:32:29] Anything that is malfunctioning, broken,
[02:32:32] and needs to be fixed is news, and
[02:32:36] journalists reflect these for the public's right to
[02:32:40] know the truth. Thus, with
[02:32:43] the transfer of public resources to pro-government
[02:32:46] media, Halk TV, which actually
[02:32:50] deserves to benefit from those resources,
[02:32:53] has real ratings, and always maintains
[02:32:56] its first place in all categories,
[02:32:59] is being punished. Therefore, Halk TV
[02:33:03] viewers are also being punished, and of course, it's impossible
[02:33:06] for us to accept this. I absolutely do not agree with
[02:33:10] Mr. Şimşek's assessment. Public resources are also,
[02:33:14] as Ms. Bengü said, your money, my money. But it says it's a public
[02:33:18] resource secret, meaning our editorial policy can support pro-government
[02:33:21] newspapers, but this is a
[02:33:24] choice and a patronage choice. The owner covers it
[02:33:27] from their own pocket, subsidizes
[02:33:30] it. But when it comes to the distribution
[02:33:33] of public resources, it is the primary
[02:33:37] duty, the main duty, of those who use
[02:33:39] those resources to be fair. Ms. Benkö, it's
[02:33:42] not transparent, it's not auditable. This is
[02:33:46] clear, I understand that from this answer. So, these institutions,
[02:33:49] based on what, give advertisements? We can't
[02:33:52] ask that, we can't audit it, it's not transparent, it's not fair, isn't that his admission?
[02:33:56] You ask, but you don't get an answer, for example, in fires,
[02:33:59] opposition MPs submit motions for questions,
[02:34:10] The advertising expenditure of only two public banks in the
[02:34:14] first three months, Mr. Uğur, is 1 billion 65 million
[02:34:17] lira. 1 billion 65 million lira, from this,
[02:34:21] not a single lira went to Halk TV. For example, where
[02:34:24] did the advertising and promotion expenditure go? It went to
[02:34:28] televisions that are never watched, to newspapers that are never
[02:34:31] read, never read at all.
[02:34:35] What are 73 and 159, Ertuğun? What does it say here?
[02:34:39] Bank and customer secret. We are not asking about customer secrets,
[02:34:42] right? So, could Mr. Şimşek have misunderstood? I mean, trying
[02:34:46] to deflect the issue by bringing up articles
[02:34:49] of law that are not related to the content of the issue, about
[02:34:52] privacy and trade secrets. But the incident in question
[02:34:56] here is different. It's not a question that falls under
[02:34:59] personal data protection, Mr. Tanal, so a customer... "Stating
[02:35:03] how many minutes of advertising was given to which channel
[02:35:07] is not a trade secret at all, it's not a banking activity
[02:35:10] at all. As you just gave an example with the parliamentary
[02:35:14] question, you ask this, and for a state institution to say, 'this
[02:35:17] channel received this many minutes, that channel received that many minutes', there is no legal obstacle to
[02:35:21] that, Professor. You know, there's no need for an official statement. A few months ago, when there
[02:35:25] was the transition to 5G technology, a campaign was run,
[02:35:28] did you see how much advertising was given in that campaign?"
[02:35:32] institutions and where did they give it? Did you
[02:35:36] see a single second of advertising on Halk TV screens?
[02:35:40] There was a tremendous transfer of resources for that 5G transition,
[02:35:43] and all institutions ran huge campaigns. Again,
[02:35:46] it's visible even in that campaign where these
[02:35:49] advertisements are going. Ali Gökçek, you took notes,
[02:35:53] but do you have anything to add? Well, let's say the first
[02:35:56] question was not
[02:35:58] answered. Let's say it's a trade
[02:36:02] secret about which television channel the money was transferred to. There's another question that says,
[02:36:06] "what criteria is this based on?" Why
[02:36:09] is this a trade secret? I don't understand that. For example,
[02:36:12] Mehmet Şimşek could have given
[02:36:15] an answer like this: "The amount transferred to a television
[02:36:18] channel is a trade secret, however, when we determine
[02:36:22] these channels, we base it on such and such criteria."
[02:36:25] This is not a trade secret, but the reason he cannot
[02:36:28] give an answer is that there are no
[02:36:31] neutral criteria. There is no
[02:36:34] criterion to explain why no advertisements,
[02:36:37] not even one lira, are given to a television news
[02:36:41] channel that ranks first in every rating,
[02:36:43] in every measurement. So, there is no such
[02:36:47] criterion. And because there is no such criterion,
[02:36:50] they hide behind trade secrets, as they do with all our questions.
[02:36:54] But honestly, these places are not anyone's father's companies.
[02:36:58] There is no such thing as a trade secret when we are talking about a public bank. Also, there is this: how
[02:37:02] can you create a competitive environment
[02:37:05] and give cheaper advertisements
[02:37:09] without negotiating with all channels and getting
[02:37:12] advertising prices from them? If you don't do this, then isn't there a public
[02:37:16] loss here? If it's a public bank, then if these banks
[02:37:19] belong to all of us, by not creating competition,
[02:37:23] you are also creating a public loss here. Perhaps
[02:37:26] for a one-minute advertisement, while you pay 100 liras there,
[02:37:30] you could reach more people for 90 liras, perhaps more
[02:37:33] people for 50 liras. They are hiding behind
[02:37:36] the excuse of being
[02:37:39] a trade secret, but as we all know, as you have
[02:37:42] also said... They use public resources
[02:37:46] to feed their crony channels, and public banks and public
[02:37:49] institutions are the best examples of this, because as you
[02:37:53] asked, the trade secret
[02:37:56] is over. Furthermore, private banks, let's say
[02:38:00] a private bank was defrauded by an x businessman
[02:38:03] to whom they gave a loan. I
[02:38:06] don't think this is a newsworthy
[02:38:09] event. Between two people or the bank
[02:38:13] and that swindler... it is actually
[02:38:16] an indication of a judicial
[02:38:19] process that needs to be carried out, meaning it's an issue
[02:38:22] that needs to be resolved in court. But when it comes
[02:38:25] to siphoning off public bank resources or
[02:38:29] distributing their resources,
[02:38:31] this concerns us greatly,
[02:38:35] because public resources consist of money that belongs
[02:38:38] to the unfeathered orphan, meaning
[02:38:41] it's the money of the whole nation. Therefore...
[02:38:45] "To give the nation's money fairly to those who
[02:38:48] deserve it means having superior
[02:38:51] leadership qualities. Yes, so this is a joint
[02:38:55] statement on behalf of the three banks. As I said, no statement was made on behalf of Turkish
[02:38:59] Airlines and Botaş. So, is it also a trade secret for Turkish Airlines,
[02:39:03] for example, where it advertises and to whom? Or for
[02:39:06] Botaş, which is one of the other companies with a majority
[02:39:09] of public capital. Why can't we know which channel
[02:39:13] Turkish Airlines' advertisements are for and based on what?"
[02:39:17] reply is so nonsensical, Sinem, I mean, it's so nonsensical,
[02:39:21] they just gave them a random file. I mean, generally, Mr.
[02:39:25] Ali knows this too, in recent years, this is the fate
[02:39:28] of all parliamentary questions. Most of them are not answered at all.
[02:39:32] Those that are answered, they just say "secret"
[02:39:34] and move on. They answer half of it, a quarter of it, and they answer
[02:39:38] it incorrectly. Anyway, thank you very much, Bengü Şap, general
[02:39:41] director of halktv.com, thank you for your contribution.
[02:39:45] While she's here, I can also say a couple of things, if
[02:39:49] she has two or three more minutes. I mean, it's not really
[02:39:52] my area of expertise, but
[02:39:56] sit down
[02:39:58] in the evening, I zap through the channels, I look at them. For example,
[02:40:01] many have opened YouTube, for example, any
[02:40:05] channel, five or six people sitting around discussing
[02:40:09] a political issue, it says 56 people are watching. Now,
[02:40:12] if he tells his wife, his children, his neighbors,
[02:40:24] it would be 150-200 people. For example, this comes to my mind:
[02:40:28] the state gives treasury aid to political parties, right? There's a
[02:40:31] condition for that. Okay, good, there's a good condition, you must have received at least 3%
[02:40:35] of the votes, you must have been established such and such time ago, etc. Now,
[02:40:38] if you are giving a reward for getting 3% of the votes,
[02:40:41] then take the viewership rates here, calculate the monthly
[02:40:45] average. In all groups and categories, A, B, AB, etc., look,
[02:40:48] distribute it equally according to that. It's that simple, Professor.
[02:40:52] Professor, if these public banks or public
[02:40:56] institutions had given advertisements to Halk TV, Mr.
[02:40:59] Mehmet Şimşek would have proudly
[02:41:03] explained the answer to this question, of course,
[02:41:06] because the fact that these advertisements
[02:41:09] were distributed fairly would have emerged.
[02:41:12] As I said, Halk TV is watched a lot,
[02:41:15] and it is watched by viewers from all
[02:41:18] segments of society, from those with high purchasing
[02:41:22] power to all layers of society, in every category.
[02:41:25] When you look at it objectively, when you evaluate
[02:41:29] it with an outside perspective, it becomes
[02:41:33] clear that Halk TV is the organization that
[02:41:36] should receive the most public advertisements among news
[02:41:39] channels. Now, there are huge public banks, let's
[02:41:43] not list their names one by one. Here, they offer salary promotions,
[02:41:46] trying to tie pensioners to themselves. Ordinary citizens deposit, businessmen deposit,
[02:41:50] the businessman who pays his taxes has deposited his money in that public
[02:41:53] bank. The ordinary pensioner goes and gets his salary,
[02:41:57] but if these people watch Halk TV, why shouldn't
[02:42:01] they see the advertisement of the bank they have been working
[02:42:05] with and have shown loyalty to for years? No, of course,
[02:42:08] I, for example, get my retirement salary from a public bank,
[02:42:11] but that public bank does not advertise
[02:42:14] on Halk TV. If this is not unfair, what is?
[02:42:17] Also, Mr. Uğur, those who make this decision are public
[02:42:21] employees, meaning they will be responsible for even 1 lira
[02:42:24] of public money. You must state according to what
[02:42:28] criteria you made the payment. As you mentioned earlier,
[02:42:31] if millions of liras in advertising money
[02:42:34] are given to a channel watched by 56 people, this is a matter
[02:42:38] for criminal investigation. So, by what decision did you do this? By what criteria
[02:42:42] did you give this person so much advertising, so much allowance? Because the money
[02:42:45] you gave is public money. There would be a heavy punishment, a trial
[02:42:49] for this. So, we need to speak considering these. Why did we
[02:42:52] go all the way to the Swiss banks and uncover Engin Cıvan's,
[02:42:56] the General Manager of Emlak Bank, bribe account
[02:43:00] and headline it as "Document of Bribery"? Because,
[02:43:03] as I said, he was the General Manager of a public
[02:43:07] bank, which held the rights of the unfeathered
[02:43:10] orphan, and he was responsible
[02:43:12] for siphoning off the public
[02:43:15] bank's money. Well, thank you very much, Bengü Şap.
[02:43:18] Thank you for your contributions. We are saying goodbye
[02:43:21] to you. Thank you very much. Şükrü Şahin, do you have
[02:43:24] anything to add to this issue?
[02:43:27] Of course, I mean, Mr. Uğur also stated,
[02:43:31] look, in the past,
[02:43:33] even when many important news stories were made
[02:43:37] that were perceived as negative for these banks or any
[02:43:41] institution or political institution, it was not
[02:43:44] possible to have such a reduction in advertising
[02:43:48] sharing, I mean, reducing public institutions'
[02:43:51] advertisements to broadcasting organizations, because
[02:43:55] this would gather a lot
[02:43:58] of reactions. Moreover,
[02:44:01] these news stories were considered
[02:44:03] as a fundamental principle of journalism.
[02:44:06] Today, if you are doing
[02:44:10] journalism that propagates the government's understanding,
[02:44:13] then you deserve advertisements,
[02:44:16] especially from public institutions.
[02:44:19] But if you are not acting
[02:44:23] in the understanding of "Her Majesty's Opposition,"
[02:44:26] then you don't have the right to advertise.
[02:44:29] This actually means destroying the public's
[02:44:33] right to information. This means destroying
[02:44:36] journalism, destroying journalistic
[02:44:39] ethical principles. In this way, you
[02:44:42] are directing journalists towards a single type
[02:44:46] of understanding, and we have experienced many
[02:44:49] examples of this. We see, unfortunately,
[02:44:53] that all broadcasting organizations that receive
[02:44:56] advertisements use the same headlines and the same news.
[02:44:59] And unfortunately, the government, especially
[02:45:02] the AK Party government, we did not see such
[02:45:05] examples in previous periods,
[02:45:08] has also taken the path of controlling
[02:45:11] the media by benefiting unfairly
[02:45:15] from the advertising pie. This is both an unfair
[02:45:18] practice and an practice that destroys
[02:45:22] journalistic principles, but most
[02:45:26] importantly, as I said,
[02:45:30] it is a situation that prevents. So, Mehmet
[02:45:33] Şimşek's answer
[02:45:35] is a very sad answer, to be honest. I mean,
[02:45:38] we can't seem to see those expected
[02:45:42] rational moves from Mehmet Şimşek,
[02:45:44] Ms. Sinem. He could even
[02:45:48] have said, "There is war
[02:45:52] around us, there are crises. Because of these
[02:45:55] crises, the opposition channel should also give
[02:45:59] us money, because they cannot see how much
[02:46:03] we are struggling in this crisis." He could
[02:46:06] also think that. But of course, I'm making a joke,
[02:46:09] I admit it's a bad joke, but unfortunately,
[02:46:12] this is the situation we've reached. Today, the media,
[02:46:16] which you discussed in the first part, is why,
[02:46:20] it is for that reason
[02:46:23] that from the media or column writing, if you become
[02:46:27] a presidential candidate in this country,
[02:46:30] you should fear imprisonment,
[02:46:34] you should experience the feeling of being incarcerated.
[02:46:37] If one of those who gives you
[02:46:40] this is the media, if it's given through
[02:46:44] the media, then it's truly a
[02:46:47] media profile rarely seen or unprecedented
[02:46:51] in the world. It's a very sad
[02:46:54] situation, but Turkey
[02:46:57] has come to this state regarding media
[02:47:00] in the last 20 years, they say, "It's a shame,
[02:47:03] it's a sin." Indeed, it is a shame and a sin,
[02:47:07] and the people are again the losers,
[02:47:13] because inflation calculations would never have been criticized
[02:47:16] until today, and people would
[02:47:20] not have seen how minimum wages and retirement
[02:47:23] pensions were calculated low, just with
[02:47:26] a simple example. Please, Ertun Çözün,
[02:47:30] we are talking about the media, we are talking about the unequal
[02:47:33] distribution in the media. I just saw
[02:47:36] Abdülkadir's post, no, when we saw
[02:47:39] his article, Mr. Bey also said, Ali Bey too, if an opposition
[02:47:43] figure had done this, a file would be opened for openly spreading
[02:47:47] misleading information. Because you are talking about the threat
[02:47:50] of prison with a presidential candidacy. And today, Mansur
[02:47:54] Yavaş's press consultant shared a post saying, "These are
[02:47:57] entirely Abdülkadir Selvi's fantasy." And Abdülkadir
[02:48:01] Selvi himself reposted it, meaning he accepted it.
[02:48:05] Despite that, there's nothing about his post, right? But
[02:48:09] if an opposition journalist had done the same, "let's
[02:48:12] say it was evaluated within the scope of press
[02:48:16] freedom. I wish the opposition was also viewed that
[02:48:18] way, and Abdülkadir's denial
[02:48:21] made by the press consultant of the Mayor
[02:48:25] of Ankara, sharing it on his own social
[02:48:28] media account, let's consider it as
[02:48:31] responsible journalism. Yes, make a correction. In fact,
[02:48:35] Ms. Sinema, let's look at this issue in this way:
[02:48:38] it is a concrete indicator of how the
[02:48:41] power of the parliament has fallen,
[02:48:45] especially after the transition to the presidential system.
[02:48:49] For this reason, was it possible, Mr. Uğur also remembers
[02:48:53] well, for an MP to ask a question and the minister
[02:48:56] not to answer it within 15 days, and not to answer
[02:48:59] it with the correct information? But today, I saw the other
[02:49:03] day, no statement was made. For example, the Minister
[02:49:06] of Justice, it hasn't been a year yet, has it? 900 questions
[02:49:10] have been asked, but no question has been answered
[02:49:14] yet. For example, this is actually an indicator
[02:49:17] of how much the respect of the parliament or the
[02:49:20] supervisory power of MPs has been reduced. Mehmet
[02:49:23] Şimşek's failure to answer this question is also a
[02:49:26] very concrete example of how much the parliament's
[02:49:30] power has been reduced. Thank you. Now, one of the hot letters,
[02:49:34] notes, and issues of politics.
[02:49:37] Meanwhile, my editor Alper
[02:49:40] sent me a message. Okay, soon, Serra Karaçam will give
[02:49:43] us an important note from the United States. But until
[02:49:47] then, until she's ready, statements continue to come
[02:49:51] from the AK Party Headquarters regarding the candidacy
[02:49:54] of the President. After the President used the
[02:49:57] phrase "upcoming elections" in his hometown of Rize,
[02:50:01] while there was a debate about whether there would
[02:50:04] be an early or snap election, Erdoğan's candidacy
[02:50:07] was also opened to
[02:50:10] debate once again. For example, Alihsan
[02:50:14] Yavuz, the Deputy Chairman in charge of Electoral Affairs,
[02:50:17] stated that there is no legal or constitutional
[02:50:20] obstacle to Erdoğan's candidacy, and that he
[02:50:24] can be a candidate again for the 2028 elections,
[02:50:27] which will be brought forward by a week in the parliament.
[02:50:31] Today, Abdülhamit Gül, one of the important figures
[02:50:34] and group deputy chairman, made a statement. If I'm
[02:50:38] not mistaken, in visual 8, Mr. Gül says:
[02:50:41] "One of the important consensuses of our nation
[02:50:43] is that our President continues his path as
[02:50:47] President and leads Turkey to a stronger leadership.
[02:50:50] I believe that this demand and expectation of our
[02:50:54] nation will find a response in our Grand National Assembly.
[02:50:57] We have full faith that the expectation of our
[02:51:00] nation for our President to be re-elected as
[02:51:03] President will be met with the decision of our Assembly."
[02:51:07] He points to the parliament. Now, we all know, more or less, that
[02:51:41] within a month, it emerged with
[02:51:44] one of his articles. Correct,
[02:51:48] Tayyip Erdoğan doesn't need to be re-elected.
[02:51:52] However, it emerged with the idea that Turkey
[02:51:56] needs to re-elect Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
[02:51:59] Mehmet Bey generally starts these things,
[02:52:03] regarding throwing out an issue, and then other AK Party
[02:52:07] officials follow. Here,
[02:52:10] they are talking about taking the MPs to early elections.
[02:52:14] This is a method
[02:52:17] of inviting our Grand National Assembly, as
[02:52:21] Abdülhamit Bey said, our Grand National Assembly,
[02:52:24] to a trick, nothing else. We determined the constitution.
[02:52:28] When we determined the constitution,
[02:52:31] no one, even our president at the time was
[02:52:34] known, but they said we do
[02:52:38] not find it right for Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
[02:52:41] to be president more than twice. Was the AK Party
[02:52:44] not in power when this constitution was determined? Was the AK Party
[02:52:48] not in power when this article
[02:52:50] was written? Why was this article put there today?
[02:52:54] In the country, something different develops, and
[02:52:58] MPs need to dissolve the parliament. In that
[02:53:01] case, the presidential term can be done again,
[02:53:05] it is not considered the second. They say, "Okay,
[02:53:08] very good." Today, he says that they are trying
[02:53:11] to circumvent the criterion they set themselves,
[02:53:15] that it shouldn't be done more than twice, with a trick.
[02:53:18] "We wrote this constitution, we determined it. We also
[02:53:21] think that it is not right for a president
[02:53:25] to serve more than twice. inviting him to elect a third term,
[02:53:28] this is the discourse. Why don't they openly say it? I mean,
[02:53:32] no, Turkey needs it. Turkey doesn't need Recep Tayyip Erdoğan to be a candidate
[02:53:36] again, brother.
[02:53:38] Since you introduced the Presidential system
[02:53:42] in 2018, name one thing that has gone well in the country.
[02:53:45] In health, education, or economy,
[02:53:49] we see what state we are in. Since 2018, not one thing has gone well.
[02:53:52] There is nothing. Does it need to happen again? Turkey doesn't need such a thing.
[02:53:56] Turkey needs change. The Grand National Assembly does not need to make anyone president
[02:53:59] again by violating the constitution through a trick.
[02:54:03] Mr. Abdulhamit Gül's discourse, of course,
[02:54:06] may be consistent for him,
[02:54:09] but he is inviting the assembly to a trick.
[02:54:12] Now, Professor Mitat, actually, in the media
[02:54:16] close to the government, when the election issue comes up,
[02:54:20] calendar-wise, it's either November 2027.
[02:54:32] One of the two necessary conditions for him to be a candidate again is either a constitutional amendment
[02:54:36] or an early election decision. Now, when the President used the phrase "approaching elections," it was asked if an
[02:54:40] early election was on the horizon, but today, Ömer Çelik said after the MYK
[02:54:43] meeting that there is no election on our agenda, so
[02:54:46] amendment. So
[02:54:50] all these things are now being said louder.
[02:54:56] I don't think he will take the risk of a constitutional amendment. This is also possible,
[02:55:00] but what seems more likely to me is that
[02:55:03] when he says "we are going to an early election," the opposition will say,
[02:55:07] "Where did this election come from? Are you running away from the election?" So, when he puts forward the early election
[02:55:10] thesis, everyone may have to accept it.
[02:55:14] Therefore, 360
[02:55:17] will be found, so when the parliament makes a decision,
[02:55:21] you know, the mileage. In 2018, they reset it, the clock was reset,
[02:55:25] 2014-2018 was not counted.
[02:55:27] 2018-2023 is the first term,
[02:55:31] 23-20... 28 is the second term.
[02:55:34] If he gets an early election in the second term by parliamentary decision, he can be a candidate
[02:55:38] again. Therefore, since the mileage started
[02:55:41] in 2018, when the parliament finds 360
[02:55:45] and makes an early election decision, no legal obstacle is seen,
[02:55:48] even if it is controversial in terms of legitimacy. Three dots side by side.
[02:55:53] But now, he says, for example, his words are very important,
[02:55:56] "This demand of our nation," Abdülhamit Gül's "this demand
[02:55:59] and expectation of our nation, I believe, will be met in the Grand National Assembly."
[02:56:02] So, they will bring an early election to the parliament,
[02:56:05] meaning the constitutional amendment is frozen.
[02:56:09] Of course, now what can happen? For example, what
[02:56:13] argument can they use, my dear Sinem? Now, if you strain
[02:56:16] your memory, about a year and a half ago, Mr. Mehmet Uçun,
[02:56:20] the chief advisor responsible for law, said
[02:56:24] durum falan dedi bu çok önemli
[02:56:27] especially those interested in political science
[02:56:30] and political sociology know this well.
[02:56:34] There is a very famous political sociologist named Carl Schmitt, who lived
[02:56:38] in the 1930s. Carl Schmitt has a thesis of exceptional
[02:56:41] situation. Sometimes, in any
[02:56:45] state, while the parliament is open, that is,
[02:56:48] while the political mechanism is operating within a democratic order,
[02:56:53] "such exceptional situations occur," he says, "that you can fill in the blanks: a regional
[02:56:56] crisis, a war, any tension. At that time,
[02:56:59] the sovereign is actually
[02:57:03] the one who decides." "That is, the parliament
[02:57:06] and everything can decide without going through
[02:57:09] the whole process. In this exceptional situation, the one who decides is the sovereign,
[02:57:13] and they must decide." This thesis has actually paved
[02:57:16] the way for more authoritarian regimes. Now, these are being taken off
[02:57:19] the shelf again, Carl Schmitt is being rewritten, and doctoral theses are being written
[02:57:23] on it. Now, I don't think Mr. Mehmet Uçun used this
[02:57:26] coincidentally. So, we should actually look not only at
[02:57:30] internal dynamics but also at external dynamics in such an election
[02:57:33] process. These external dynamics must
[02:57:37] be observed very carefully. I also agree with my professor.
[02:57:41] Also, in Turkish politics, the perspective
[02:57:44] of those in power
[02:57:48] is "yesterday is yesterday, today is today." So,
[02:57:51] "we will do what today requires." And
[02:57:55] this never changes. Did you finish?
[02:57:58] Yesterday was yesterday. Ah, yes, yes, by the way,
[02:58:02] the new party's Istanbul Deputy, thank you very much
[02:58:05] for your contributions. We will be saying goodbye to you. I will turn to Mr.
[02:58:08] Küçükşahin. Don't look at your watch, you are still here,
[02:58:12] I see. I see to the left when I look to the right. Ali Gökçek, I will say
[02:58:15] something for about 15 seconds. Of course, please.
[02:58:19] I mean, when talking about the new party,
[02:58:22] especially in our democracy, it's the first time
[02:58:25] that a political party has been established from scratch and has reached
[02:58:28] such a high vote share in such a short
[02:58:32] period. This fact
[02:58:35] should never be overlooked when evaluating
[02:58:38] the new party. I mean,
[02:58:42] such a rise in votes
[02:58:45] and voter preference
[02:58:48] has not been seen in the establishment of
[02:58:51] another political party to this extent. Even the Justice and Development Party,
[02:58:54] in the elections of 2003,
[02:58:57] November 3, 2002, it came to
[02:59:00] power in 2003.
[02:59:04] Even then, it barely managed to reach this vote share, didn't
[02:59:08] it, professor? Yes, I mean, after separating from the main body,
[02:59:11] consider the Democratic Party that separated from the Justice Party, consider the Republican Trust
[02:59:15] Party that separated from the Republican People's Party. For any party that separates
[02:59:18] from the main body, I completely agree, such a rapid increase in votes
[02:59:22] in such a short time is not rare, it's almost unseen.
[02:59:26] We need to acknowledge that,
[02:59:29] but it was forced to separate,
[02:59:32] like an absolute historical event.
[02:59:38] If the difference in the Istanbul elections, which was 13,000, increased to 800,000
[02:59:41] in a month, a month and a half, then after such an unfair
[02:59:44] and unlawful decision, a party that has become the first party in Turkey's history
[02:59:47] emerged stronger as a new party. We can also see this as
[02:59:51] voter insight. Şükrü
[02:59:54] Küçükşahin, is Erdoğan's candidacy being made an issue on purpose?
[02:59:58] What do you say?
[03:00:01] First of all, I think there is a coded word here.
[03:00:05] That is, the example Mr. Uğur mentioned about the new
[03:00:08] party becoming the first party just a week or a few days after
[03:00:12] its establishment, I think its source is
[03:00:15] its legitimacy. That is, this party was established
[03:00:19] as a result of legitimate and legitimate necessities.
[03:00:22] All illegitimate initiatives
[03:00:26] have gathered the public's reaction for that reason.
[03:00:29] The new party became the first party due
[03:00:33] to its current situation.
[03:00:36] Now, an election will be held
[03:00:40] today. No one should
[03:00:43] worry about this. The lands of Anatolia
[03:00:47] have been very experienced and very conscious about the ballot box
[03:00:51] for 150 years. Especially
[03:00:54] it will never forgive the slightest
[03:00:57] disrespect to its will. It will
[03:01:01] punish it excessively. Now,
[03:01:05] whether there will be an early election on this date or that date,
[03:01:08] whether 360 will be found or not, whether it will be 400
[03:01:12] or not, you know, all these things can happen
[03:01:15] hypothetically. Of course, but
[03:01:18] I think this will be a coercion and it will not have legitimacy.
[03:01:21] If you are talking about an early election, it should be held at least
[03:01:25] a year in advance. Otherwise, if you are not going
[03:01:29] to hold an early election, then
[03:01:32] I think this would be going beyond legitimacy. In what
[03:01:36] sense? In terms of getting the will of the people
[03:01:39] behind you. Especially in this area, I say.
[03:01:43] Now, you will transfer
[03:01:46] deputies, and
[03:01:49] you will try to suppress the opposition
[03:01:53] by using all your power. And
[03:01:55] in this way, you will say that this
[03:01:58] early election decision is an early election if we do it
[03:02:01] a month earlier, or a week earlier.
[03:02:05] Believe me, this will have no legitimacy
[03:02:08] in the eyes of the people, and it should be known
[03:02:12] that Turkey has been experiencing a crisis
[03:02:15] for a long time. This is not just an economic crisis,
[03:02:19] I'm saying, a crisis of political
[03:02:22] trust is also being experienced, a crisis in terms of state
[03:02:25] administration is also being experienced. All of these
[03:02:28] are happening before the eyes of society. Society
[03:02:31] also wants to get out of this crisis.
[03:02:34] They have also seen that it is not possible to get out of this crisis
[03:02:38] with the system created in the last 10 years. So, the system needs to be changed.
[03:02:41] That is, change is needed. That is, doing something
[03:02:45] new, saying something new, making
[03:02:48] a new proposal is needed. The current government
[03:02:51] does not leave a positive impression
[03:02:55] regarding any of these issues. On the contrary, as I said
[03:02:58] earlier, it feels the need to sideline
[03:03:02] the opposition through illegitimate
[03:03:05] means. It does this in every area of life. I mean, Ms. Sinem,
[03:03:08] what we have seen in Üsküdar in the last few
[03:03:11] days, what we have seen in Adana Yüreğir, or the political ban
[03:03:15] and prison sentence given to Ekrem İmamoğlu after
[03:03:18] he was acquitted twice, we have seen the conditions. I think
[03:03:21] all these also increase
[03:03:25] this legitimacy discussion I mentioned earlier,
[03:03:29] and all these
[03:03:32] are happening before the eyes of society. Turkey has been experiencing
[03:03:35] inflation
[03:03:37] chronically,
[03:03:40] excuse me, we are listening to you. Your voice went out and came back.
[03:03:43] No, another voice was added in between.
[03:03:47] "I apologize. Turkey, look, I always give this example,
[03:03:51] there is no other country in the world that has fought inflation for such
[03:03:55] a long time. It has become chronic.
[03:03:57] Turkey's economic problems have also become chronic. All of these happened
[03:04:01] during this government's term. While all these are happening,
[03:04:05] if the market has
[03:04:07] even stopped being a place where ordinary people
[03:04:11] go to shop the most, if the market seller
[03:04:15] is closing their stall,
[03:04:18] if people can't go there to shop,
[03:04:22] if that's also due to high prices, then you
[03:04:25] really can't achieve legitimacy with things like transferring
[03:04:29] deputies or these types
[03:04:31] of operations carried out in municipalities. Can you put a comma
[03:04:35] for a moment, dear Şükrü Küçükşahin? Please put a comma now,
[03:04:38] because it's important for a unified statement. Oh, is that so?
[03:04:42] Then you should still put the comma, because
[03:04:46] our masters... There was a meeting. The Minister of Justice held
[03:04:49] a meeting at the White House. Its details are related to voting by mail,
[03:04:53] but since you will be leaving at the end of this hour,
[03:04:56] I would like to get your final evaluation.
[03:04:59] So, about the agenda, please, professor. Is that so?
[03:05:03] Before connecting, yes, please. I mean,
[03:05:06] I agree with what Mr. Şükrü said. A change, etc.
[03:05:10] What are we talking about? Why is there a need
[03:05:14] to oppose? What dynamic and parameter do we look at?
[03:05:17] We are saying there are 14 trillion lira interest payments in the next 3 years.
[03:05:20] So, in 2020,
[03:05:23] in 2027, approximately 3 trillion 865
[03:05:27] billion, in 2028, 4 trillion 170
[03:05:30] billion, and in 2029, around 4 trillion 300
[03:05:34] 345 billion. When you add them up, there are about 14 million 14 trillion
[03:05:38] interest payments. Now, so that the audience doesn't get confused, let me say this: for every 100 lira
[03:05:41] in the budget, everyone pays taxes, 19 lira
[03:05:45] 19.43 kuruş goes to interest,
[03:05:48] only 9.95 kuruş goes to investment.
[03:05:51] So, half of the interest goes to investment.
[03:05:55] That's why the unemployment rate has reached 31% of society.
[03:05:58] That's why there is such impoverishment, as we talked about earlier.
[03:06:02] That's why there is a major distortion in income distribution
[03:06:06] that cannot be fixed. That's why the middle class has disappeared
[03:06:09] and is rapidly moving towards the lower segment. So,
[03:06:13] society actually needs change to
[03:06:17] help the unemployed with diplomas,
[03:06:20] those we call unemployed with no school, no university,
[03:06:24] no home. To re-establish the dreams
[03:06:27] of all these young people, to re-establish social peace,
[03:06:30] for the social consensus, the social consent we call
[03:06:33] "rıza," to be realized again, for people to regain
[03:06:37] the smiles they have lost, change is, of course, needed.
[03:06:40] As long as the parties
[03:06:43] that are in favor of change can present
[03:06:47] a compact formula that everyone
[03:06:51] can understand and can truly
[03:06:54] embrace the future with hope. Let me get a final evaluation
[03:06:57] from you too, professor. I think the Justice and Development
[03:07:01] Party's efforts, especially against
[03:07:04] the new party, which can be considered
[03:07:07] anti-democratic, will not bring advantage to the party.
[03:07:11] I think that initiatives
[03:07:14] and phenomena that have not derived their legitimacy from the ballot box
[03:07:18] will not be enough to keep a political
[03:07:21] party in power. I am evaluating this,
[03:07:24] and as an example, I show this:
[03:07:27] How was the Justice and Development Party founded? It was founded
[03:07:30] by breaking away from the Welfare Party,
[03:07:34] from that main body. The Welfare Party,
[03:07:37] which was previously led by the late Professor
[03:07:40] Necmettin Erbakan, that political view
[03:07:43] became the Welfare Party with the closure of various
[03:07:46] parties. Then, after Welfare, it became Fazilet. So, yes,
[03:07:50] National Salvation,
[03:07:52] National Order, National
[03:07:55] Salvation, Welfare, Fazilet.
[03:07:58] It became Fazilet. If bans
[03:08:02] or what we can call anti-democratic initiatives
[03:08:05] could prevent a political formation from coming
[03:08:09] to power, Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan's Justice and Development
[03:08:13] Party could not have come to power in the first election
[03:08:16] it entered. Therefore, but
[03:08:19] the members of the government should always keep this
[03:08:23] fact in mind for their own
[03:08:26] political future and power,
[03:08:30] and for our democratic
[03:08:33] life, it is very important,
[03:08:36] very valuable. I also have a request for Halk TV
[03:08:40] viewers, I want to address you. As you saw
[03:08:43] earlier, Halk TV draws its strength from you,
[03:08:46] dear viewers. It has no other
[03:08:50] support than you. Halk TV, like the name of this program,
[03:08:53] is an uncensored television. Look, in this
[03:08:57] studio where we are currently speaking,
[03:09:00] there is no prompter in front of any camera.
[03:09:03] The faces of Halk TV do not
[03:09:06] read a pre-written script by looking at the prompter.
[03:09:09] They freely express
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[03:09:20] they strictly adhere to universal
[03:09:23] professional principles. Therefore,
[03:09:26] I ask you to continue to increase your support for Halk TV,
[03:09:31] because Turkey desperately needs
[03:09:33] Halk TV to continue its existence in order
[03:09:37] to breathe a democratic atmosphere. Mr. Dündar, you touched upon
[03:09:40] such a beautiful and accurate point that it is also perfectly aligned with today's
[03:09:44] topics. That's why I actually call Halk TV viewers "Great Halk TV viewers,"
[03:09:48] like "Great Fenerbahçe fans." Great Halk TV
[03:09:51] viewers. I mean, yes, not a single penny comes
[03:09:55] from public institutions and organizations, but they have such
[03:09:59] a preference and respect
[03:10:02] and love that in all my years in this profession, of course, my career
[03:10:06] is nothing compared to yours, but I have never seen such a thing, such
[03:10:10] Akdeniz, welcome. I couldn't say welcome to you so as not to interrupt
[03:10:14] my professors. Good broadcast to all of us. What did you say, Sena?
[03:10:17] Of course not.
[03:10:21] We will take Serra every hour. Serra
[03:10:24] will soon inform us about the latest developments from the United
[03:10:27] States. Thank you very much. We will watch. I dropped my pen.
[03:10:31] We will watch on the way. I will write down the developments for you,
[03:10:35] and you can open them on the way. Director, if we can leave early and come back early, let's do it.
[03:10:39] Is that so? Okay, Mr. Ercüment, let's start with an introduction, but
[03:10:42] for one minute. Why has the general headquarters started
[03:10:46] making statements about the President's candidacy, one after another?
[03:10:49] Statements are coming that there is no legal or constitutional obstacle.
[03:10:53] I think the normative situation,
[03:10:57] the regular situation, is behind us. They will enter this process as
[03:11:00] they wish. I don't think they are legitimate either.
[03:11:04] For the opposition, will they say no
[03:11:08] to an early election, said Mr. Mitat Hoca?
[03:11:11] I mean, they will use that.
[03:11:13] This is how they are entering. I think the main
[03:11:17] problem is that they will enter the election by magnifying
[03:11:21] the opposition's legitimacy issue. Now, as I was going on air,
[03:11:24] we were constantly messaging. Today is a disastrous situation.
[03:11:27] Yesterday, today, now my journalist
[03:11:31] friends are being asked to be arrested because they reported
[03:11:35] in Georgia. Yes, we are giving Kaos GL's Instagram.
[03:11:38] Mr. Ercüment, you made a very important introduction. Thank you
[03:11:42] again very much, Mr. Dündar. See you next Tuesday.
[03:11:45] Professor Mitat, thank you very much. See you very soon.
[03:11:49] Let's take a short break at 3 o'clock. Let's come back at the top of the hour.
[03:11:51] gelelim.
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[03:12:07] Open WhatsApp and find the updates tab. In the search
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[03:12:41] Yes, we are starting the 4th hour. We are discussing the hot topics
[03:12:45] of domestic politics, but we will go to Washington,
[03:12:48] because there was a very important meeting at the White House.
[03:12:52] The person who held the meeting was the Minister of Justice, because
[03:12:55] no one is unaware of Trump's demand, especially
[03:12:59] for voting by mail, before the elections
[03:13:03] to be held in November. Therefore,
[03:13:05] the statement to be made by the Minister of Justice today
[03:13:09] and the messages he would give at the press conference were
[03:13:12] also important. And with all its splendor,
[03:13:15] my dear Serra Karaçam, Halk TV's Washington correspondent,
[03:13:18] will inform us about everything that happened there with her smiling face.
[03:13:22] Now, should we start with the Minister of Justice holding
[03:13:26] a meeting at the White House? Or should we go
[03:13:29] to where the voting by mail issue will evolve?
[03:13:33] I'll immediately give you the floor, dear Serra.
[03:13:35] You can explain. Yes, thank you very much. Today was really
[03:13:39] an unusual sight. The Minister of Justice choosing
[03:13:43] the White House as the venue for his press conference. The White House press secretary
[03:13:47] left his position after having a second child, but actually, the main
[03:13:50] reason is said to be that after President
[03:13:54] Trump left Ankara, due to security concerns,
[03:13:57] he left in a cargo plane instead of a passenger plane,
[03:14:00] and he didn't include the press secretary in that team,
[03:14:03] even though he knew about such a threat, thus putting him at risk.
[03:14:07] This is said to have led him to make this decision. After that,
[03:14:11] he left his position, saying he would take care of his child. For this
[03:14:14] reason, various government officials
[03:14:17] and ministers come to the White House podium and hold press conferences here, as no new name
[03:14:21] has been appointed. However, this situation
[03:14:24] is unusual for the Minister of Justice because the Minister of Justice
[03:14:27] is expected to be more neutral, even if they have an ideological affiliation.
[03:14:31] At least symbolically, they don't usually come and speak
[03:14:34] at the government's podium.
[03:14:37] The FBI can come, other directors can come
[03:14:41] and give information, but today, in this sense,
[03:14:44] the press conference in the Rose Garden of the White House
[03:14:47] was significant, especially since it was announced one day
[03:14:51] after the Supreme Court's decision. And it was something never
[03:14:55] seen before. It naturally
[03:14:58] raised new questions about independence.
[03:15:02] We can say that. Let's talk about the Supreme
[03:15:05] Court's decision regarding the USPS, which is like America's
[03:15:08] post office, and the rule for mail-in
[03:15:11] ballots. This postal institution distributes them.
[03:15:15] Trump signed an executive order in March
[03:15:19] that brought new rules that could delay their distribution.
[03:15:21] With this executive order, he thought he could centralize
[03:15:25] the authority to distribute ballots, which was previously held by the states,
[03:15:28] in the federal government. Objections came from
[03:15:32] lower courts. On August 24,
[03:15:35] the Supreme Court temporarily granted permission to Trump,
[03:15:38] but yesterday, the final decision came, and
[03:15:42] it was said that he could not do this because the elections would be at risk.
[03:15:46] Let's provide this background information. Of course, the Minister
[03:15:49] of Justice today said that the President's goal
[03:15:52] is not to prevent people from voting, not to restrict it,
[03:15:56] but on the contrary, he supports free and fair elections. He explained
[03:16:00] that "we took this step to prevent illegal voting, to prevent
[03:16:02] non-citizens from voting, and to prevent
[03:16:06] duplicate voting." Therefore,
[03:16:09] he gave the message that this decision
[03:16:12] will not hinder our efforts, and we will continue
[03:16:16] investigations against those who vote again or those who vote as immigrants.
[03:16:19] However, at least for now, the post office
[03:16:23] will continue to distribute the existing envelopes
[03:16:26] and ballots of the states. The restrictive provisions
[03:16:30] they wanted will not be implemented. The President's
[03:16:33] Minister of Justice also had other messages today,
[03:16:36] but if there's anything you want to ask, let me take that first, then
[03:16:40] that.
[03:16:55] Now, also with those licenses, when I heard it was a decision
[03:16:59] related to it, I thought it was worth asking. Yes, actually,
[03:17:02] there might be a small misunderstanding there, I wanted to contribute to your broadcast
[03:17:06] with what kind of regulations RTÜK makes here
[03:17:09] regarding the issue. The Minister of Justice. "No important questions
[03:17:13] were asked about licenses today at this meeting, but
[03:17:16] let me tell you right away, there is a commission here called
[03:17:20] FCC, like RTÜK, and as a regulatory body, this
[03:17:23] commission normally does not take into account the opinions
[03:17:27] of the officials there, editorial viewpoints, but other
[03:17:31] requirements such as content for children and families,
[03:17:34] and to guarantee true
[03:17:37] independence, all
[03:17:41] candidates must speak for an equal" amount of time,
[03:17:44] and if a candidate emerged from one state, their opponent should also speak for the same
[03:17:48] amount of minutes, to maintain balance,
[03:17:52] the FCC is actually an institution that performs these inspections. However,
[03:17:56] during this period, they had serious lawsuits
[03:17:59] with broadcasters, because instead of protecting
[03:18:02] the freedom of expression article of the constitution,
[03:18:05] they took steps to punish through license renewal,
[03:18:09] waving a stick. Especially for ABC and 8
[03:18:13] channels, licenses are normally
[03:18:16] renewed every 8 years, but they started early
[03:18:19] reviews before their time, and
[03:18:22] in a way, they made them self-censor
[03:18:25] with this license stick. That is, instead of
[03:18:28] directly banning speech, they put pressure on intermediaries,
[03:18:32] channels, and consequently, on the other hand,
[03:18:35] advertisers to the channels, banks,
[03:18:38] and payment systems, and indirectly
[03:18:41] shape them. My goodness, how far removed these things are from us,
[03:18:45] I mean, you're explaining it now, I can't believe it.
[03:18:49] I mean, there's no such thing as RTÜK and all that.
[03:18:53] I mean, they say it's an advanced democracy.
[03:19:02] As far as I understand, things are still coming back from the judiciary, let's add that. Of course,
[03:19:05] when did this discussion first emerge? We've been talking about the Iran war for months,
[03:19:09] you know, the Iran war is the number one topic even in prime
[03:19:13] time slots. For a long time, the administration
[03:19:16] has been unsuccessful regarding this Iran war,
[03:19:19] they made mistakes, and they started labeling some news
[03:19:23] as fake news.
[03:19:26] He told
[03:19:33] a reporter, "You shouldn't have a license, how can you ask if
[03:19:37] Iran won?" And again, there was an important
[03:19:40] programmer named Jimmy Kimmel on ABC, and
[03:19:44] he did an interview with a senator recently, but due to pressure
[03:19:47] on the grounds that the other person was not given enough time,
[03:19:50] they had to put the interview on YouTube. The channel
[03:19:54] could not broadcast it. So, they act as if they are supporting
[03:19:56] diversity, they say "we are doing it for this reason",
[03:20:00] but it always works for one side, it always works when there's a Democratic interview,
[03:20:04] because the system was not with the other side. Therefore, lawsuits are currently
[03:20:07] ongoing in court.
[03:20:10] Broadcasters, especially
[03:20:13] television, are given fewer rights than the written press.
[03:20:17] That is, while the written press has a jurisprudence that ensures
[03:20:20] the protection of freedom of expression, broadcasters,
[03:20:24] television broadcasters, do not have this. It is being reviewed again. Of course, journalists
[03:20:27] are also no longer satisfied, because for example, the owner of the Washington Post,
[03:20:31] Jeff Bezos, is known to be close to the administration,
[03:20:34] because he is a businessman. They also resigned from the Washington Post
[03:20:37] and moved to Washington San. We talked about that
[03:20:41] in recent days. So, this is the press part.
[03:20:44] Our viewers who make comparisons in the first part,
[03:20:47] with the comments of dear Uğur Dündar, can now combine it with
[03:20:50] their own thoughts
[03:20:53] and compare what I've explained. that they would follow us, because
[03:20:56] they were curious about what you would say, dear Serra.
[03:20:59] Yes, now let me give you a few
[03:21:02] short headlines from the Minister of Justice, and then I'll leave the floor to you.
[03:21:06] You know, there was a news report yesterday that a Russian businessman,
[03:21:10] allegedly close to Putin, contributed hundreds of thousands
[03:21:14] of dollars as an organization gift to President Trump's son's wedding ceremony.
[03:21:18] This was also asked to the Minister of Justice, and a brave journalist
[03:21:21] said, "Investigate these allegations.
[03:21:25] Is there any impropriety here?" A businessman who is said to be close
[03:21:29] to a foreign head of state, while in office, you know the wedding was recent.
[03:21:33] Trump couldn't even go to the wedding, let's remember that. To this question,
[03:21:36] he replied that it is difficult to investigate
[03:21:39] the wedding gift, and said, "We don't have enough
[03:21:43] information. It's an allegation that he's Putin's friend, there's no
[03:21:47] evidence to show that." So he refrained
[03:21:50] from giving details, but journalists are not afraid to ask questions.
[03:21:54] This is an important observation, I think. Another
[03:21:57] issue, you know, there are very strict policies
[03:22:00] regarding immigration. So much so that
[03:22:03] an investigation was launched against Ilhan Omar, a member of the House of Representatives.
[03:22:07] There were rumors going on for months, years, that she married her brother
[03:22:10] to give him legal status. This was asked to the Minister of Justice,
[03:22:13] and he said he did not want to comment on an ongoing investigation.
[03:22:17] He said, "Are you taking a step in this regard
[03:22:20] regarding the ideologicalization of institutions,
[03:22:24] every time you seize something? in the form of a certain ideology,"
[03:22:27] and he commented, "The ideology of any federal
[03:22:30] employee, whether Republican or Democrat, is not a good thing.
[03:22:33] We are doing our best to prevent this." Let me add this right away:
[03:22:37] there is serious judicial cooperation between Turkey and the United States,
[03:22:40] especially the FBI. Two important names
[03:22:43] from Turkey that America was looking for were extradited.
[03:22:47] One was a terrorist, and the other was involved
[03:22:51] in healthcare fraud using public funds.
[03:23:07] and extradited. But while these names
[03:23:11] who fled from America are coming, there are also names
[03:23:14] that Turkey wants. For example, Umut Altaş, his extradition case is still
[03:23:17] ongoing. He is an important witness in the Gülistan Doku
[03:23:20] murder case, and on the other hand, perhaps also a suspect.
[03:23:23] And he has important information
[03:23:26] about the governor's son. This cooperation always works
[03:23:29] for one side, for America's benefit.
[03:23:33] We see that it is not progressing. Another important case is Venezuela.
[03:23:46] He was caught while his owner was being sought in a certain place.
[03:23:49] Even though he admitted his crime, he was not allowed to leave. While other
[03:23:52] names were leaving and waiting,
[03:23:55] his process will also be clear. There are such issues. Also,
[03:23:58] finally, another Turkish citizen arrested in Panama,
[03:24:02] Mustafa Mollaoğlu, was arrested in Panama in an American operation
[03:24:06] for violating Iran sanctions. But there is a confidentiality
[03:24:09] order, so how consistent or inconsistent this cooperation is,
[03:24:13] these are also important test points. Thank you very much, dear Serra
[03:24:16] Karaçam, you summarized the agenda of the United States
[03:24:20] in one breath, in one go.
[03:24:23] Good luck, good broadcasts. Thank you, Ercüment Akdeniz. Before we go to the break,
[03:24:26] you had actually started to explain how what happened in the country
[03:24:30] in the last 24 hours would shed light on the upcoming period. Please,
[03:24:34] if you remember where you left off, continue from there.
[03:24:37] "Yes, you are discussing whether there will be an early election.
[03:24:41] Now, when we look at that medium-term program,
[03:24:44] we see signs that the election has been brought forward.
[03:24:48] This has been talked about, discussed, but we also need to look
[03:24:51] at the operations. That is, operations against municipalities,
[03:24:54] operations against the main opposition were already
[03:24:56] systematized,
[03:25:00] but this situation has now reached an interesting dimension
[03:25:03] in the last few days. We, as the news center at İlke
[03:25:06] TV, I am sure it's hard to follow on Halk TV.
[03:25:09] I mean, Mr. Şükrü is very knowledgeable. Now I'm taking notes,
[03:25:13] I can't keep up. Our friend Tuğba Tekelek,
[03:25:16] the journalist, can be arrested at any moment.
[03:25:19] Her statement is being taken. This was taken within the scope
[03:25:23] of LGBT operations, but for making a news report, our journalist friends.
[03:25:26] Canhan Coşkun and Kazım Kızıl are journalists.
[03:25:29] They are currently facing a
[03:25:33] 14-year prison sentence in connection
[03:25:36] with the Rabia Naz case. An investigation has been launched.
[03:25:39] We already know Selahattin Günday, he was arrested for the second
[03:25:42] time, arrested for the second time. Now today, for example, Şebnem Korur
[03:25:45] Fincancı, Erol Önder, former representative of RSF,
[03:25:48] Turkey representative Ali Nesin and similar names were brought
[03:25:52] before the court again in the Özgür Gündem case, which was actually a closed
[03:25:55] case. And now, the decision was made to continue
[03:25:58] Nadiye Gürbüz's detention.
[03:26:02] While all this is happening, one should probably think,
[03:26:05] I mean, while the press freedom area is narrowing
[03:26:09] so much, how will the opposition go to the elections? There is no voice,
[03:26:13] no right to receive news. Therefore, I also received an access
[03:26:16] block as a journalist, right? Of course, let me tell you that too, Ertunç Bey,
[03:26:20] Evrensel newspaper, that is, the daily Evrensel newspaper has 1 million
[03:26:24] followers, and an access block was imposed on it.
[03:26:27] And it does labor journalism, I mean, we are talking about the increase in diesel
[03:26:31] prices, we are talking about the troubles of the workers.
[03:26:34] Now, how will unions, workers, make their voices heard?
[03:26:38] You come to the Ali İsmail Korkmaz Foundation. Ali İsmail
[03:26:41] Korkmaz was lynched and killed in a very cruel and brutal
[03:26:44] way in the middle of the street in Eskişehir.
[03:26:47] His mother Emel, along with his family,
[03:26:51] his brother, lawyer Gürkan Korkmaz, established a foundation
[03:26:54] that gives scholarships to children, provides education, there is nothing
[03:26:58] else. How do you block access to this, why do you block access
[03:27:01] to this account? To Peace Academics,
[03:27:04] I mean, they say there's a process, steps will be taken and so on.
[03:27:08] But you say Peace, and access to the accounts of Peace Academics
[03:27:11] has been blocked, to Amnesty International.
[03:27:15] The list goes on. Now, with things being like this,
[03:27:19] what kind of dark tunnel are we entering, and in this dark tunnel,
[03:27:22] will there really be a possibility of going to a normal
[03:27:25] election, even at a minimum level? Will there be an equal
[03:27:29] competition between parties? When I look
[03:27:33] from here, there is also an operation
[03:27:36] against socialists today. 39 people
[03:27:39] were detained, probably there are arrests, I can't follow it now. For example,
[03:27:43] one of them is Mert Titiz, the chairman of the Socialist
[03:27:46] Refoundation Party. He was taken into custody,
[03:27:49] included in this investigation. These are also component
[03:27:53] parties of the HDP. Moreover, there were concerns
[03:27:56] about the process, about trust in the process,
[03:27:59] and it grew. You say constitution,
[03:28:02] new constitution, right? We'll bring it on October 1st, discuss it, a civil and democratic
[03:28:06] constitution. What will you do with social consensus? You arrest journalists,
[03:28:10] you arrest them, you judge people because of their gender,
[03:28:12] you criminalize them, you make operations
[03:28:16] against municipalities every day, you turn the name of the opposition
[03:28:20] party into a problem. I also don't take
[03:28:24] that lightly. Let's see what comes out of that.
[03:28:27] Including the issue of eligibility
[03:28:30] for elections. Also, Fatih Yıldız had an interesting
[03:28:34] post, yes, Fatih Bey posted it today. I don't know if you discussed it,
[03:28:37] but please, or in a way,
[03:28:40] let's introduce a new threshold system for parties.
[03:28:44] But the changes in the election law and the election system did not come
[03:28:47] from the MHP for the first time today, such statements
[03:28:50] have been made before. Today, Fatih Bey elaborated on it a bit more.
[03:28:54] Mr. Şükrü, as I understand it, Ercüment Akdeniz's concern and question is that, as a journalist,
[03:28:58] he cannot foresee a normal election climate.
[03:29:01] He says, "How will it be?" I apologize, before I move on,
[03:29:05] let me just conclude with one sentence. I'm also curious about Mr. Şükrü's
[03:29:09] thoughts, we are colleagues after all.
[03:29:11] So, parties,
[03:29:14] the opposition as a whole,
[03:29:18] everyone has many troubles. But can't they come together and hold a very powerful
[03:29:22] rally, a very powerful resistance against press freedom,
[03:29:26] against censorship? I mean, if journalists
[03:29:29] cannot be supported today, when will they be supported?
[03:29:32] This siege, how will it be broken? This also
[03:29:35] needs to happen. Not just one party,
[03:29:39] all opposition, all unions, all civil society, all institutions together,
[03:29:43] can't they do something like this? The area of press freedom is really
[03:29:46] suffocating. Please, Mr. Şükrü?
[03:29:50] It's impossible not to agree with Ercüment Bey.
[03:29:53] Really, we constantly expect
[03:29:57] access blocks, detentions,
[03:30:00] tutuklama rahatlıkla bekliyoruz e sosyal medya
[03:30:03] paylaşımları sürekli olarak eee yasaklanıyor ve
[03:30:07] yenilerini kurmak zorunda kalıyorlar eee
[03:30:10] ben 45 yıldır bu mesleğin içindeyim inanın
[03:30:14] biz geçmişte olanları beğenmezdik
[03:30:16] eleştirirdik yani o günler özgürlük günleri. miş
[03:30:20] gazeteciler için maalesef onu der hale
[03:30:23] geldik, mesela söyleyip duruyoruz, kimse bunu
[03:30:27] basite indirgemesin, deminden beri söylüyorum, gazeteciler
[03:30:31] halkın haber alma özgürlüğünü, halka
[03:30:33] haber ulaştırma eee gücünü kullanıyorlar,
[03:30:37] yani aynen mahkemeler nasıl hakimler, yargıçlar halk adına
[03:30:40] karar veriyorsa, gazeteciler de halk
[03:30:44] adına izliyor, gözlüyor ve onu halka ulaştırıyor, şimdi
[03:30:48] mesela dünyanın... en büyük
[03:30:50] eee mahkemesini yapmakla övünen
[03:30:53] adında da adalet olan bir partinin
[03:30:56] iktidarında gazeteciler
[03:30:59] salonun bir köşesine sığıntı gibi
[03:31:02] oturtuluyor, halbuki gazeteci yargı
[03:31:06] insanlarını da, sanıkları e savunma insanlarını
[03:31:10] da görebilecek pozisyonda olmalıdır,
[03:31:13] çünkü onlar arasındaki, yine basit bir örnek olarak
[03:31:16] söylüyorum, en küçük el, kol hareketi mimikler bile haber
[03:31:20] değeri taşır ve bunları halkın bilmesi gerekir, yani bir
[03:31:23] yargıcın, bir savcının, bir savunma avukatının, bir
[03:31:26] sanığın, herhangi bir bu şekilde hareketini
[03:31:30] görüp halka aktarması gerekiyor, ama yok, eee, yine birinci
[03:31:33] bölümde, daha doğrusu bu
[03:31:36] medyaya yönelik eee reklam
[03:31:38] ambargolarıyla ilgili konuşurken eee ifade ettim
[03:31:42] eee medyanın etik ilkeleri yok edildi, haber
[03:31:46] alma ve haberi yayma özgürlüğü ortadan kaldırıldı bak.
[03:31:50] bakın gazeteciler yani basit bir suçlama haline geldi bu
[03:31:53] işte ne yalan haberi
[03:31:57] yaymak gerçek olmayan haber neydi klasik de lafı var
[03:32:00] gerçekten bilgi yanıltıcı bilgi yanıltıcı bilgi yaymak yanıltıcı
[03:32:03] bilgiyi alene yaç bey ezberlemek istemiyorum
[03:32:07] çünkü sanki kanıksamış gibi olacağız kanıksamamalıyız yani
[03:32:11] bu kadar kolay olmamalı ama bu dezenformasyon yasası
[03:32:14] çıkarıldı bakın bunun gazetecilerle alakalı olmadığı söylendi
[03:32:18] ama dezenformasyon yasası. eee gerekçe gösterilerek
[03:32:22] arkadaşlarımız tutuklanıyor, gözaltına alınıyor, aylarca, yıllarca
[03:32:25] cezaevinde kalıyor, eee işte nezaret haninde
[03:32:28] kalıyorlar, eee bence bu bir sadece
[03:32:32] muhalefet sorunu değil, iktidar sorunu, yani iktidarda
[03:32:36] eee medya özgürlüğü konusunda titiz olmalı, biz
[03:32:39] sadece muhalefet niye sahip çıkmıyor noktasında
[03:32:43] eleştiride haklı olabiliriz ama bizim asıl ey
[03:32:46] iktidar güç sende eğer...
[03:32:50] "bu ülkede halkın haber alma özgürlüğüne inanıyorsanız,
[03:32:53] o zaman medyayı özgür kılmanız lazım, gazetecileri özgür
[03:32:57] kılmanız lazım, gazete patronlarını, medya
[03:33:00] patronlarını değil, özellikle de gazetecileri özgür
[03:33:04] kılmalısınız, eee maalesef AK
[03:33:07] Parti iktidara geldiğinden bu yana
[03:33:10] bu konuda bizi sevindirecek, mutlu edecek hiçbir
[03:33:14] adım atmadı, eee aksine
[03:33:17] bugün hayatın her alanında olduğu gibi" medya alanında da
[03:33:21] aşırı güç kullanıyor ve eee
[03:33:24] medyayı eee şu ya da bu şekilde baskılama yolunu
[03:33:28] seçiyor eee o nedenle çok
[03:33:31] gür bir ses. çıkmalı ve bu bütün
[03:33:35] partiler tarafından eee yine eee bu
[03:33:39] ses çıkarılmalı ve de iktidara yakın olduğunu söyleyen
[03:33:42] medya aslında bir etik ilkeler
[03:33:45] eee ilkeleri yeniden anımsamalı bence
[03:33:49] asıl sorun orada geçmişte yine farklı
[03:33:52] ideolojilere sahip medya kuruluşları vardı sinem
[03:33:55] hanım ama gazetecilik ilkeleri söz konusu
[03:33:58] olduğunda eee gazetecilik etiği söz konusu
[03:34:02] olduğun da genel olarak bunların üzerinde
[03:34:05] uzlaştığı çok geniş bir alan vardı ve bir araya
[03:34:08] gelebiliyorlardı, ama bugün öyle değil, bambaşka bir
[03:34:12] dünyadayız, yani Sinema hanım, bunu basit bir örnek olarak
[03:34:15] kimse görmesin, ya gazeteciyim diyen insanlar
[03:34:18] çıkıyorlar, şu cezaevine atılmalı, bu sürünmeli, bu
[03:34:22] çürümeli, işte bu hapse atılmalı,
[03:34:26] korkunç bir tablo bu, ama bu gücü nereden alıyor,
[03:34:29] iktidardan alıyor, aynı şeyi muhalif bir bilinen bir
[03:34:33] gazeteci söylediğinde hemen soruşturmaya uğruyor,
[03:34:36] ama bunu iktidara yakın birisi söylediğinde bırakın
[03:34:39] soruşturmayı, alkış görüyor, eee bu
[03:34:42] tablonun eee Ercüment Hoca mutlaka değişmesi
[03:34:46] lazım ve bunu Türkiye değiştirmek zorunda,
[03:34:49] eee sürekli söylediğim gibi iktidara daha çok
[03:34:52] görev düşüyor, iktidar demokratik olgunluğunu kaybettiği
[03:34:56] sürece medya üzerindeki baskısını da arttırıyor,
[03:34:59] bugün ben çok inanıyorum yani... hep diyorlar ya
[03:35:03] örneğin Sayın Cumhurbaşkanı siyaseti iyi okur, ben artık sayın
[03:35:06] Cumhurbaşkanı siyaseti iyi okuduğunu düşünmüyorum, çünkü
[03:35:10] siyaseti eğer iyi okursa Üsküdar'ın
[03:35:13] olmaması lazım, medya üzerindeki bu kadar baskının olmaması lazım, çünkü
[03:35:17] bunlar iktidarın meşruiyetini yitirmesine neden
[03:35:20] oluyor, bunlar iktidarın, ak parti'nin diyeyim,
[03:35:23] daha somut konuşayım eee halk
[03:35:27] nezdindeki güveni erozyyona uğratıyor ve
[03:35:31] bugün... eee bu baskılamalar
[03:35:35] kendi eee seçmen tabanı tarafından da görülüyor, içine
[03:35:38] sindiremiyorlar eee şeyde
[03:35:42] olanı, Üsküdar'da olanı, yani bizim gücümüz bu
[03:35:45] muydu? eee yani bakın bugün
[03:35:48] bugün sohbet ediyorum ya sinem hanım bir karşımdaki
[03:35:51] insan ne dedi biliyor musun aman beşükrü bey dedi artık
[03:35:55] belediye seçimi kazanmak çok kolay nasıl yani dedim
[03:35:58] ne olacak dört tane transfer 3 tane gözaltı iki
[03:36:02] tane tutuklama meclis üyelerini belediyeyi kazandı, şimdi
[03:36:05] bakın, bu konuşuluyorsa Türkiye'de, bu
[03:36:09] konuşuluyorsa, gerçekten iktidar
[03:36:12] seçmen nezdinde güvenini yitirmiştir, bu
[03:36:16] da aşırı güç kullanmaktan kaynaklı, bugün
[03:36:19] iktidarın bildiği tek bir şey var, yani o anlamda söylüyorum, güç
[03:36:23] kullanırım, aşırı güç kullanırım, aşırı güç
[03:36:25] kullanarak eee istediğim sonucu alırım, iktidarımı korurum,
[03:36:29] hayır hayır, yani seçmen bunu gör. seçmen
[03:36:33] görüyor,
[03:36:40] I mean, the inability of the economy to improve,
[03:36:44] the fact that the price of a liter of diesel has now
[03:36:47] reached triple digits,
[03:36:49] I mean, the economy wants predictability,
[03:36:53] the economy wants legal regulations
[03:36:56] to be implemented, I mean, economies can recover
[03:36:59] in climates where the judiciary is not politicized.
[03:37:03] Now, there's a war right next to us, that's true.
[03:37:06] There was also one between Russia and Ukraine, and there is one between the US
[03:37:10] and Iran, but how correct is it to evaluate this current situation
[03:37:13] solely with geopolitical risks and developments
[03:37:17] around us? Now, we say the real agenda
[03:37:20] of the citizen, of course, we know the economy,
[03:37:24] we are aware. The price of diesel hitting the 100 lira
[03:37:27] mark today, please I ask my director Murat Erdoğan
[03:37:31] to put the visuals on the screen.
[03:37:34] How far it has come. In 2021,
[03:37:38] the price of a liter of diesel, which reached
[03:37:41] two-digit figures, is just about to reach three digits 5 years later.
[03:37:45] That is, as of yesterday, after the confirmed
[03:37:48] increase of 6.62, it exceeded 90 liras in Istanbul,
[03:37:51] and reached 95 liras in Batman and other places. Look, what was it,
[03:37:55] what happened? At the end of 2021,
[03:37:58] the price of a liter of diesel was 11.
[03:38:01] At the end of 2022, it was 22.10.
[03:38:05] At the end of 2023, it was 36.40.
[03:38:07] At the end of 2024, it was 43.20.
[03:38:11] In 2025, that is, last December,
[03:38:15] the price of a liter of diesel, which was 65 liras,
[03:38:17] is now 96 liras.
[03:38:21] In 5 years, the increase in diesel
[03:38:24] is 841%.
[03:38:27] Since the beginning of the year, the increase is 50%.
[03:38:31] There's a classic saying, "I always buy 50 liras worth,
[03:38:35] let the price go up as much as it wants." Now, with our largest banknote,
[03:38:38] that is, 200 liras, you can buy 2 liters
[03:38:41] of gasoline. Ertunç Bey.
[03:38:45] You give 200 liras, your largest banknote, and he gives you 2 liters
[03:38:48] of gasoline, or diesel. I mean, when we look
[03:38:51] at countries at war, you might say that Iran
[03:38:55] is already a rich country in terms of maintenance.
[03:38:59] But in Syria, it's between 49 and 70 liras,
[03:39:02] where there were also protests. Is the increase in fuel
[03:39:05] prices only for fuel, Ertunç Bey? I mean, we are not
[03:39:08] an unconscious society to not know that this has a huge impact
[03:39:12] on the pricing and re-evaluation
[03:39:15] of everything, from needles to threads.
[03:39:18] Let's not even talk about needles to threads,
[03:39:21] to put it simply, I don't want to digress,
[03:39:25] but we go to trials in Silivri, right? Going to a trial in Silivri
[03:39:28] and coming back costs 2,500 liras.
[03:39:32] Imagine, for a lawyer, a defendant,
[03:39:35] we are talking about a fair trial. You will go and represent yourself
[03:39:39] at the trial, you will give your statement
[03:39:42] there or ask questions to other defendants.
[03:39:45] You go 4 days a week, so you need to spend
[03:39:49] 10,000, 12,000 liras a week to attend a trial.
[03:39:53] This is really not an acceptable situation. And besides, the situation is clear,
[03:39:56] we haven't even reached the end of 2026. There is an increase of nearly 50% every year.
[03:40:00] But we, as retirees, in salary,
[03:40:02] in minimum wage, we don't see an increase of close to 50% in other
[03:40:06] earnings, we saw the same in rents, well, now today an operation was carried out against
[03:40:09] fruit and vegetable vendors, wasn't it? Based on complaints, an operation was launched
[03:40:13] regarding exorbitant fruit and vegetable prices, and
[03:40:17] whoever is guilty, whoever is at fault, can of course be prosecuted, and in the end,
[03:40:20] whatever the penalty, they can serve it, but now is it only the
[03:40:24] fruit and vegetable vendor at the market who is guilty,
[03:40:27] or is it the producer trying to produce with this diesel
[03:40:30] and these fertilizer prices, and despite
[03:40:33] all this, somehow making a profit of 3 or 5 lira,
[03:40:36] is the producer guilty? How will they
[03:40:39] do it, how will they produce with these prices? Look, diesel
[03:40:43] is indispensable for farmers and tradesmen. It is indispensable for transportation. A 10
[03:40:46] lira increase here will perhaps come to our table here in
[03:40:50] Istanbul as 300 lira, perhaps it will come as 100 lira
[03:40:53] in other jobs in our workplaces,
[03:40:56] in our other indirect expenses. What did they use to say?
[03:41:00] "I always buy for 50 lira." Now with 50 lira, you can't even smell
[03:41:04] diesel, and even if 50 lira's equivalent in today's inflation is 500
[03:41:07] lira, you're still ashamed to buy 500 lira of gas for your car.
[03:41:11] When I pass by a gas station, I say "hurry up". I'm ashamed to say "100 lira"
[03:41:15] because it finishes filling up in a second.
[03:41:18] We are talking about such an economy. What are we talking about as
[03:41:22] lawyers? Legal predictability. If you
[03:41:25] don't ensure legal predictability, if one
[03:41:28] day you take someone from their home in the morning with a newspaper headline, one day
[03:41:32] to chicken farmers, one day to vegetable vendors, one day
[03:41:35] you conduct operations on oil companies and appoint trustees,
[03:41:38] that is, if people in a state of law, under
[03:41:41] the protection of law, don't feel safe. If we are in a situation
[03:41:45] where the law changes not as it operates but with daily
[03:41:48] practices, then these can be 500 lira, or 600 lira, we cannot
[03:41:52] stop this this way. What are we talking about? Strict monetary policy, right?
[03:41:55] This is the platform where Mehmet Şimşek announced
[03:41:59] increased taxes and more burden on the public, but
[03:42:02] while these continue,
[03:42:06] illegal trials continue, injustice continues.
[03:42:09] We say arrest is the last resort, appointment of a trustee is the last
[03:42:13] resort. You need to present concrete evidence, you need to find
[03:42:17] it to say that there is indeed a criminal element in this company, that assets are being laundered or
[03:42:21] that this company was established with it, so that you can appoint a trustee.
[03:42:24] But you make trustee decisions without even taking statements, you seize
[03:42:28] companies, you open cases against people, "Oh, let's take it to investigation,
[03:42:32] let's move to prosecution." "Sorry, we kept you in custody for 4-5 days,
[03:42:36] and accidentally arrested you for a month or two in between, sorry, you are acquitted," you say.
[03:42:39] In a situation where you cannot foresee,
[03:42:42] you can neither invest your money anywhere,
[03:42:46] nor is there a situation where you can get the return on your invested
[03:42:48] money. In this regard, when we talk about how
[03:42:51] social consensus will be formed, how
[03:42:54] this economy will change and we will go to the elections, I think that has been abandoned now,
[03:42:58] because Mr. Şükrü just mentioned the Üsküdar election,
[03:43:02] I mean, which AK Party member, which Nationalist Movement Party member
[03:43:06] would say, "Oh, that's good, we won this, how nicely
[03:43:10] we won, the national will has found its response"? No one
[03:43:13] with an average intelligence level who
[03:43:17] can comprehend and interpret those events would say this. Now, since the situation
[03:43:20] böyleyken böyle ya yani şimdi tablo böyleyken
[03:43:24] küçükşahin ardından da Ercüment Bey'e geleceğim yine çünkü biraz önce sizin
[03:43:27] sözünüz yarım kalmıştı ya şimdi bu saatten sonra gıda
[03:43:31] fiyatlarının düşeceğine alım gücünün yükselmek
[03:43:35] demeyeyim normalleşebileceğine
[03:43:37] dair inancı olan bir yurttaşımız var mı bakın dinleyelim bir yurttaş bugün ne diyor
[03:43:41] bir sesi verelim.
[03:43:45] zam geldi arkadaş bugün yine doldurduk depomuzu 4 liraya Allah izin
[03:43:48] verirse bu ne olacak böyle her şeye zam her şeye zam ya bunun
[03:43:52] artık biz çaresini bulsunlar ya markete gidemiyoruz alışverişe
[03:43:56] gidemiyoruz mazota. mazot demek her şeye zam
[03:43:59] demek ya bıktık artık yeter ya yeter farkında
[03:44:02] markete gidemiyorum çarşıya gidemiyorum mazota zam demek her şeye zam
[03:44:06] demek yani bunun bir şimdi sizce bir yurttaş bu saatten
[03:44:10] sonra alım gücünün yükseleceğine ya efendime
[03:44:13] söyleyeyim işte gıda fiyatları en basit örneği düşeceğine dair bir
[03:44:16] inancınız sizin var mı? hayır
[03:44:20] kimsenin yok yani nasıl olsun ki bakın bugün
[03:44:23] ben e gelirken işte eşim söyledi yazdı girdim.
[03:44:27] aldım inanın sıradan bir market öyle lüks falan değil samimi
[03:44:31] söylüyorum ya 1 kilo
[03:44:33] kıyma 600 gram da sote
[03:44:37] et 2044
[03:44:39] lira ya 2.044 lira
[03:44:43] kıyma ve sote et 600 gram sote et 1
[03:44:46] kilo da kıyma e pazara gidiyorsunuz demin
[03:44:49] söyledim ee korkunç bir tabloyla karşı
[03:44:52] karşıyasınız ve asgari ücretin ne olduğu alım gücünün ne olduğu
[03:44:55] ortada iktidar bakın.
[03:44:58] asıl bunlarla eee ilgilenmesi gerekirken
[03:45:02] eee bu hedefini de eee bu hedefi konusunda da bizi ikna
[03:45:05] etmiyor, onun için ısrarla söylüyorum, dünyanın hiçbir
[03:45:08] ülkesinde kronikleşmiş bir enflasyonla mücadele, bakın
[03:45:12] enflasyon değil, enflasyonla mücadele politikası
[03:45:15] yoktur, bu taş çaddası iki yılda olur biter,
[03:45:19] ama Türkiye neredeyse 10 yıldır enflasyonla mücadele
[03:45:23] ediyor, çünkü sistem yanlış, bakın
[03:45:26] verin. etkiyi görün etkiyi dendi, o zaman enflasyon
[03:45:29] %15'ti, hatta yüksek
[03:45:32] sayılıyordu, e döviz kurları 4 lira
[03:45:35] civarındaydı, faiz %9 düzeyindeydi, bugün
[03:45:39] demin hoca gitti, yani her 100 lira verginin
[03:45:42] e 20 lirası faize gidiyor,
[03:45:45] enflasyon dünya şampiyonusunuz, hele gıda enflasyonu
[03:45:48] yani Türkiye nasıl bir gıda enflasyonunda şampiyon
[03:45:52] olur, anlamak mümkün değil. Ağustos ayında
[03:45:56] Sinem Hanım. "ağustos ayında enflasyon sıfır
[03:45:59] düzeylerinde çıkardı Türkiye'de her zaman, çünkü sebze ve meyvenin en
[03:46:03] bol olda öyle çıkıyor eee şey e
[03:46:06] Şükrü bey nasıl şimdi haziranda haziran enflasyonu sıfır
[03:46:10] çıkıyor ki Temmuzda şeyler oluyor ya o tabii o ücret
[03:46:13] politikası nedeniyle ama eee enflasyon %2 civarında
[03:46:17] 2'ye yaklaşıyor bu çok yüksek bir oran yani
[03:46:20] niye e çünkü doğru politikalar izlemiyorsunuz
[03:46:24] işte Ertunç bey söyledi yani "daha
[03:46:27] önce stokçu operasyonu yapıyordun, yok benzinci operasyonu, şimdi
[03:46:31] de işte yok tarladan buraya kadar
[03:46:34] gelişte eee şöyle fiyat oluyor, böyle oluşuyor, nasıl
[03:46:37] oluşuyor, niye bugün oluştu, ya da bugün mü
[03:46:41] oluştu, birden bire mi oluştu, sen ülkeyi yönetiyorsun,
[03:46:44] ekonomik bir tablo bu, ekonomik kararlar
[03:46:47] gerektirir, bu polisiye tedbirlerle önlenemez, gerçekten
[03:46:51] önlenemez, sinema hanım, yani burada bir aksaklık var demek
[03:46:55] ki senin bunu önlemen gerekiyor."
[03:46:59] varlık nedeni bu, hükümet
[03:47:01] olman, yani tarladan vatandaşa ulaşan
[03:47:05] üründe gerçekten sağlıklı bir fiyat politikasının
[03:47:08] oluşmasını sağlaman gerekir, bu polisye tedbirlerle olmaz, aldığın
[03:47:11] ekonomik kararlarla olur, aldığın eee işte ne
[03:47:15] der mevzuat çerçevesinde olur, ama
[03:47:18] böyle bir niyet yok, ben artık buna samimi olarak, yani iktidarın
[03:47:22] ekonomiyi öncelemek ya ekonomiyi toparlamak gibi bir önce, bu bir
[03:47:25] tercih yani bu bir tercih. mi diyorsunuz artık bu bir eee
[03:47:29] ekonomi politikas düşünüyorum bakın ak Parti
[03:47:33] sinem hanım ak parti mağdurdan garip gurabadan
[03:47:37] uzaklaştı şimdi başka grupların
[03:47:40] temsilcisi oldu nedenle bu ülkede
[03:47:43] eee milli gelirden çalışanların
[03:47:47] yoksulların aldığı pay son 10 yılda
[03:47:50] neredeyse 10 puan varlıklıların deyiğine eee
[03:47:53] değişmiştir
[03:47:56] bakın. gerçekten iddialı bir laf ediyorum, yani
[03:47:59] Türkiye'de yoksulların geliri AK Parti
[03:48:02] iktidarında azalmıştır, nasıl bir ak Parti garip guraba
[03:48:06] demiş, yoksulluğu yok edeceğim diye iktidar olmuş bir parti
[03:48:10] ama ben artık bunun ee hele enflasyon politikasının
[03:48:14] eee bir yanıyla ya böyle olunca vergi gelirlerimiz daha
[03:48:18] yüksek oluyor, o zaman eee yani devletin
[03:48:21] tasarruf etmesine gerek yok, devlet daha güçlü harcama yapabilir
[03:48:24] işte eee o zaman bizim. de harcama
[03:48:28] gücümüz artar diye baktıklarını düşünüyorum yani ekonomist
[03:48:31] değilim ama tekrar söylüyorum basit biz de biraz
[03:48:34] ekonomi okuru olduk ya da üniversitede bunun eğitimini de aldık
[03:48:38] az çok olmaz yani bu kadar uzun süreli enflasyonla
[03:48:41] mücadele olmaz sinem hanım olmaz ve
[03:48:45] başarıya bakın ya %32
[03:48:47] %32 Arjantin %250'den 2 yılda
[03:48:51] %30'a düşürdü sanıyorum ya o zaman enflasyonla
[03:48:54] mücadele özür dilerim araya giriyorum ama bu kadar uzun süre mücadele. edilmez
[03:48:58] diyorsunuz ya, enflasyonla mücadelenin bu kadar uzun
[03:49:01] sürmesi tamamen iktidarın bir kendi tercihi ve politikası mı,
[03:49:04] ikinde bulunduğumuz siyasi iklimin bir getirisi mi
[03:49:08] bu, mecburi bir getirisi mi eee olan
[03:49:11] biten? bakın, eğer enflasyonu düşürme
[03:49:15] niyetiniz varsa Türkiye'nin hukuk
[03:49:18] devletinde üst sıralara çıkmasını sağlarsın,
[03:49:21] demokratik olgunluğu gösterirsin, muhalefet
[03:49:24] ve medya üzerindeki baskıları sıfırlarsın, senin hakkın
[03:49:28] kadar muhalefete de özgürlük alanı tanırsın, bunları
[03:49:32] yapmazsan enflasyonu önleyemezsin, polisiye
[03:49:36] tedbirlerle olmaz, sinem hanım, çünkü siz diktatörlükle.
[03:49:40] bir ülke değilsiniz, yani o ülkeler bile
[03:49:43] ekonomik kararları alırken bambaşka hesapları
[03:49:47] yapıyorlar, yani bugün geliniyor, bakın
[03:49:50] 23 tane orta vade program
[03:49:54] açıklandı. Sinem hanım, ilk 2005'te açıklandığında
[03:49:58] 3 yıl sonraki enflasyon hedefi neydi?
[03:50:00] %5, yani 2025, şey
[03:50:04] 2005, 2008'de 2008'de enflasyon
[03:50:08] %5 olacaktı. 2008'de
[03:50:12] e bugün 1 yıl sonraki
[03:50:15] orta vade programda enflasyonunuzda hesabınızda
[03:50:18] %12'lik sapma var bu kadar
[03:50:21] olmaz gerçekten bu kadar olmaz hele bir de rasyonel politika
[03:50:25] iddia e politikka izlediğini iddia ettiğiniz
[03:50:28] bir eee uzmanı bu alanda
[03:50:31] görevlendirdiyseniz yani adını da koyalım Mehmet Şimşek
[03:50:34] inflation was supposed to be 5% in 2008.
[03:50:38] Today, in the medium-term program for 1 year from now,
[03:50:41] there is a 12% deviation in your inflation calculation.
[03:50:45] This is too much, it really is too much. Especially when you claim
[03:50:49] to be following a rational policy, and you have assigned an expert
[03:50:53] in this field, let's call him Mehmet Şimşek, and despite all this, things are still at 32%,
[03:50:56] "Oh, how wonderful, inflation is finally
[03:50:59] falling," if you evaluate it that way. Also, let's not forget, Ms. Sinem,
[03:51:02] Mr. President says the same thing every year: "Turkey's star is shining,
[03:51:06] we are doing these things with quality, qualified personnel and people.
[03:51:15] Our medium-term program is strong, the measures we have taken are strong,
[03:51:19] you will see that Turkey is a country whose star is shining."
[03:51:22] But the people's star has never shined, nor has Turkey's. It won't shine
[03:51:26] with this inflation. But the reason is these...
[03:51:29] decisions regarding the independence of institutions, regarding the Central Bank.
[03:51:32] If you insist on changing the Central Bank Governor every year,
[03:51:35] Ms. Sinem, it won't work. You cannot convince us that
[03:51:38] you are fighting inflation. That is, if you say
[03:51:42] "you don't know the interest rate policy, how it should be" and
[03:51:45] for this reason you change ministers, you change Central Bank
[03:51:47] policies, it won't work. This is only
[03:51:50] an indication that you don't want to prevent inflation,
[03:51:54] but rather more impoverishment.
[03:51:58] I guess it's thought that
[03:52:01] as poverty increases, the level of education probably decreases,
[03:52:04] so those who vote for us increase, because they also had such a thesis,
[03:52:08] as you know, the group deputy chairmen had said that
[03:52:12] as the level of education decreases, those who vote for us increase.
[03:52:15] But they are not aware, I mean, the world
[03:52:18] is not what it was 20 years ago... Let's say Turkey, not the Turkey
[03:52:21] of 20 years ago, nor the Turkey of 50 years ago. People, one way
[03:52:25] or another, are learning lessons from this every day,
[03:52:29] living every day. And also, you
[03:52:33] can silence the media as much as you want, silence the opposition,
[03:52:36] people go to the market every day, to the greengrocer, to the supermarket,
[03:52:40] and there they face reality.
[03:52:42] Now, these price hikes, Ercüment Akdeniz, have become
[03:52:46] a fundamental economic indicator determining all pricing
[03:52:49] behaviors. That is, transportation,
[03:52:53] production costs, what kind of situation
[03:52:57] is the citizen facing? Now, even if we assume that the elections
[03:53:00] will be held on time, the government also has an expectation of being able to fix
[03:53:04] the economy. The OVP was announced the other day, and there were some
[03:53:07] deviations, or rather
[03:53:10] updates, but now it's clear
[03:53:13] that it won't go as planned, whether due to this or that,
[03:53:17] whether geopolitical developments or domestic political
[03:53:20] everything from A to Z will see price increases, and very severely.
[03:53:24] I mean, this is very clear. And also, will it stop here? Will diesel stop
[03:53:27] at 100 lira? I mean, how far will it go until the election?
[03:53:31] These are cumulative price increases.
[03:53:34] I mean, if they think, "we have allocated a certain budget," it's also in the OVP,
[03:53:38] "so we will do some work on pensions, minimum wage, etc.,
[03:53:42] a quarter before the election," what is currently being done
[03:53:45] and the price increases that will come until
[03:53:47] that date will take that away. That's over, that's
[03:53:51] in the past now. The job is not easy.
[03:53:54] It's really difficult for the government in that regard.
[03:53:58] But if we ask if this is a choice, a mistake, or incompetence,
[03:54:02] I think it's a choice. There's a segment of 8-10 million
[03:54:05] people in Turkey. If you have money, if you have financial power,
[03:54:09] if you make money from money, you're not affected by anything. The rich get richer anyway.
[03:54:13] But the base is breaking, the large majority is breaking.
[03:54:16] When I hear diesel, I immediately think of farmers, I mean, producer farmers.
[03:54:19] If agriculture and animal husbandry go,
[03:54:23] how will you ensure resilience during wartime, during
[03:54:26] global conflicts, during crises, during pandemics?
[03:54:30] You are not an agricultural country that is self-sufficient.
[03:54:33] How will you achieve this? From that
[03:54:37] perspective, the situation is really not good. Now I remember the pandemic,
[03:54:40] Biden was in power in the United
[03:54:43] States. It swept through the whole world, it swept through the economy.
[03:54:47] He gave 1.4 or 1.7
[03:54:50] trillion dollars in subsidies to his citizens.
[03:54:52] He provided salary support, "they can't work,
[03:54:56] they shouldn't starve," healthcare services and so
[03:54:59] on. Now, for example, we say there is a
[03:55:02] oil crisis, we say there is the Strait of Hormuz, now we say Yemen has been added,
[03:55:06] now a fragile economy, okay, you've reduced industry, you've reduced
[03:55:10] manufacturing, you say our services sector is strong. Honestly, excuse
[03:55:13] me, in times like these, the services sector won't save you. If your industry
[03:55:17] isn't strong, if your employment isn't strong, it won't save you.
[03:55:20] But I mean, for example... "What are you giving your citizens during
[03:55:24] such a period of hunger, poverty, and price hikes? What kind of subsidy are you giving?
[03:55:28] There was a sliding scale to balance it, at least from taxes..."
[03:55:31] Yes, I mean, maybe a regulation could be made in terms of taxes? I mean, given the situation,
[03:55:35] given the circumstances, the fact that these taxes will remain
[03:55:38] in force in the same way...
[03:55:42] They couldn't do it, it's over, that story is over now. I mean, they
[03:55:45] removed it, they removed the protection measure. Now the entire bill, the entire bitter
[03:55:49] prescription is on the backs of the citizens, the villagers, the workers,
[03:55:52] the retirees. Let me conclude with this: Look, we are not the same as Syria,
[03:55:56] are we? Syria came out of a civil war, and as a journalist
[03:56:00] who interviewed Syrians for years, I know very well. They returned,
[03:56:03] I still meet them, I do interviews, we are not the same. I mean, there is no
[03:56:06] infrastructure, the economy is not good, investments
[03:56:10] are not as desired, there is hunger, 70% of the country is hungry
[03:56:13] or something. A 40% price hike
[03:56:16] came there on oil, and the people
[03:56:20] are up in arms. Can't we be as good as Syria?
[03:56:24] I'm asking this. I mean, the citizen should also ask themselves,
[03:56:27] I never want to make a comparison, Turkey is a more modern country,
[03:56:31] capitalism in Turkey is much more advanced, the tradition of trade union
[03:56:35] democratic struggle in Turkey is very strong.
[03:56:38] I mean, the left-wing tradition is very strong, the struggle to gain labor
[03:56:42] rights is very strong. It cannot even be compared to Syria or Middle Eastern countries.
[03:56:45] But which wave of price hikes is this,
[03:56:49] which price hike frenzy? Then the citizen will ask themselves
[03:56:52] or look at their own history, what did we do during such price hike periods, what
[03:56:56] would we do? For example, what would the unions do? Now the farmers are
[03:57:00] crying blood, they are revolting because of diesel. What is the chamber of
[03:57:03] agriculture doing? What is the chamber of agriculture doing? What are the producer
[03:57:06] farmer associations doing? The workers are crying blood. What are the union
[03:57:10] confederations doing? No one should be offended, I mean, the citizen
[03:57:13] should point the finger at themselves. I mean,
[03:57:17] without unity, without demanding rights, without
[03:57:20] pressure from below, no one gives
[03:57:23] rights from above. I mean, it has come to this,
[03:57:27] unfortunately, I mean, if we vote for this party, that party will save us.
[03:57:31] Parties are important, elections are important too, of course, this is important. Yes, of course it's
[03:57:35] important, but in Turkey's
[03:57:38] tradition, there is always a democratic
[03:57:41] struggle from below, a trade union struggle from below,
[03:57:45] a struggle of workers from below. This struggle takes
[03:57:48] a little more bread, it expands the democratic
[03:57:52] space a little more, it makes May 1st
[03:57:55] free, it develops trade union
[03:57:59] freedoms. If this is not there, no one gives anything decent
[03:58:03] from above to anyone, no offense. So,
[03:58:06] elections are important, but a citizen should draw
[03:58:09] conclusions for themselves from a situation that is only focused on elections.
[03:58:13] In the past, there was a labor platform, there was a "no to privatizations" platform. Look,
[03:58:17] we are talking about highways and bridges now. Is there a platform against
[03:58:20] privatization now? Why isn't there one? I mean, there was one 10-20 years ago,
[03:58:24] it could be done. Well, one might say, "there's a lot of pressure, there's a much
[03:58:28] more authoritarian system, this and that." I mean, these are not excuses, they existed
[03:58:32] before too, they existed in the 90s too. How did this country emerge
[03:58:35] from the 1980 military coup? It emerged with student
[03:58:38] protests and worker protests in 1986, 1987.
[03:58:41] The spaces became free that way. I mean, how did the AKP come to power?
[03:58:45] Let's remember that too. I remember how the DSP-MHP-Anap
[03:58:48] coalition left. I mean, hundreds of
[03:58:51] thousands were in the streets, protesting price hikes, protesting
[03:58:55] inflation. That's how change came. Now, without such
[03:58:58] a thing, no rights can be sought, no change can happen.
[03:59:01] I mean, it's not right to dump the entire burden on political
[03:59:05] parties either. I mean, trade unions,
[03:59:08] people, citizens need to take
[03:59:11] on tasks from this. And the opposition, as a whole,
[03:59:15] I'm not making any party distinction here, I mean, as a whole, it's not
[03:59:18] just election preparation, I mean...
[03:59:22] They need to open channels where these people can take their problems
[03:59:26] to the streets, where they can express their problems and win their rights.
[03:59:29] I remember Poland, I always give it as an example.
[03:59:32] Lech Walesa was a trade unionist in the change
[03:59:36] of power, and he came to power with the power
[03:59:39] coming from the factories and the trade union movement. He brought about a very big change.
[03:59:43] in 2008,