HALKTV — Acikca
20260917 170000 UTC
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[00:00:00] Let the parliament make a decision, that only. an early election will be held on this date,
[00:00:03] so many days of early election, early
[00:00:06] election, early election, why is it being pronounced, what
[00:00:09] is happening, we will try to solve the codes of this tonight, and we will start with
[00:00:13] this topic clearly, of course, we will have many
[00:00:16] other topics, first let me greet my broadcasting partner Fikret
[00:00:20] Bilaya, Fikret abi, hello,
[00:00:23] I wish you a good broadcast, I send my regards and
[00:00:26] love to our guests, thank you, He is with us via remote connection.
[00:00:30] Also with us is New Party Deputy Sezgin Tanrı. Welcome, Mr. Sezgin.
[00:00:33] Thank you very much. Greetings and love from Diyarbakır.
[00:00:37] Thank you. Let's send our greetings to Diyarbakır too. Who are we with in the studio?
[00:00:41] Sir, political scientist Associate Professor Doctor Doğan
[00:00:44] Çetinkaya is with us. Welcome, Doğan Hoca. Hello, I'm glad to be here. Economist
[00:00:48] Professor Doctor Murat Birdal is with us. Welcome, Murat Hoca.
[00:00:51] and I think the CHP We will also discuss political issues with Murat Hoca, but you know. I guess
[00:00:55] the markets haven't seen such a big earthquake, such a big
[00:00:59] shock in a long time. The fund market has been devastated,
[00:01:03] something like 20 billion in funds have exploded, people are afraid
[00:01:06] if there will be a continuation, etc. What happened, what happened? There are very interesting
[00:01:10] developments there, we will evaluate them, and
[00:01:13] of course, lawyer İsmail Emrettelci is with us. Welcome, İsmail Bey.
[00:01:17] Hello, I'm glad to be here, good broadcast to everyone. Among all these agendas,
[00:01:20] IBB trials are very important, we continue to follow them, and something very
[00:01:24] striking happened yesterday. A defendant on the stand
[00:01:27] cried. Why did a defendant on the stand
[00:01:30] cry, in response to what question, and what does
[00:01:34] this incident tell us about the course of the IBB case? We will address
[00:02:08] Let me take it, just in case something goes wrong there. Now, the Chief Advisor to the President,
[00:02:11] Mehmet Uçum, said that
[00:02:14] he foresees the elections to be held on April 16,
[00:02:17] 2028. This is actually one month before the elections
[00:02:21] that would normally be held in May. This date
[00:02:24] is the date of the referendum for our transition to the Presidential
[00:02:28] system, he says. It's its anniversary.
[00:02:31] Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will be a candidate
[00:02:34] for the last time. That date has a symbolic meaning, and
[00:02:38] Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will be a candidate for the last time, says Mehmet
[00:02:42] Uçum. Before that, the words
[00:02:45] of MHP Chairman Devlet Bahçeli had drawn attention. Mr.
[00:02:48] President completed two of the three crescents.
[00:02:51] He won the 2018 and 2023 elections.
[00:02:54] Now the third of the three crescents
[00:02:58] remains. The third of the three crescents.
[00:03:03] Hopefully, he will complete the third one. Well, these words are sending a message, and I will ask my guests
[00:03:07] to interpret the details of that message. Let's also look at visual
[00:03:10] number one, friends. Şamil Tayyar
[00:03:13] wrote a tweet, you can check it, but
[00:03:17] we highlighted these specific sections in red
[00:03:20] because we found them striking
[00:03:22] the main target is to scatter the opposition. in relation to the topic we are currently discussing. He says, a friend from the general
[00:03:26] headquarters said that the first round of the election would be on April 2, and the second round on April 16.
[00:03:30] As Mehmet Uçum said earlier, April 16,
[00:03:33] 2028. The first round on April 2, the second round on April 16.
[00:03:37] Şamil Tayyar's friend from the general headquarters said, "Write it down and
[00:03:41] keep it aside." What does it say here? "Well, at this stage,"
[00:03:45] he says, "I have a suggestion. I said it before, I'll repeat it.
[00:03:48] No matter when the election is held, under current circumstances,
[00:03:52] it's beneficial to decide on an election now." Look,
[00:03:55] he says it should be decided now. He suggests this.
[00:03:59] Tayyar suggests it. The election decision of April 18, 1999,
[00:04:02] was made 9 months in advance. It can be done now too. Parties will continue their preparations accordingly.
[00:04:05] The concern about snap or early elections will disappear. Political stress will decrease.
[00:04:09] Polemics will end. Normalization will begin. I think it should be tried,
[00:04:12] he says. Very interesting. He says this early election decision should be made
[00:04:16] now, Şamil Tayyar. Of course,
[00:04:19] there was also a backstage report by Ayşe Sayın
[00:04:23] from BBC Turkish. The following sentence was striking, dear viewers:
[00:04:27] In AKP circles, an election scenario that would pave the way
[00:04:30] for Erdoğan to be a candidate again, and within this scope, the option of making
[00:04:34] the election decision months in advance is being discussed. Look,
[00:04:37] in Ayşe Sayın's backstage report from the BBC, it is also being discussed
[00:04:41] that the election decision might be made much earlier
[00:04:44] in the coming period in the AKP. These must
[00:04:48] be pointing to something, these must be pointing to something.
[00:04:51] I'll turn to New Party Deputy Sezgin Tanrı Kulu first.
[00:04:55] Mr. Sezgin, what do these indicate in your opinion? Why have
[00:04:57] they intensified?
[00:05:01] "First of all, let me state that, of course, there will be an election, either
[00:05:05] in 2027 or 2028. Now the issue
[00:05:08] is here, we need to focus on this:
[00:05:11] can Mr. Erdoğan be a candidate for the third time?
[00:05:14] What are the conditions for him to be a candidate, and is an election
[00:05:18] held a week or a month before its normal
[00:05:21] time an early election as described in the third paragraph
[00:05:24] of Article 116 of the Constitution, or is it not?
[00:05:27] These need to be discussed. Now, Article 101 of the Constitution
[00:05:31] very clearly limited the presidency to two
[00:05:34] terms of five years each, meaning a person can serve
[00:05:38] as president for a maximum of two terms
[00:05:40] of five years each.
[00:05:44] Beyond that, they cannot. The exception to this is shown
[00:05:48] in Article 116, third paragraph,
[00:05:52] of the Constitution. If
[00:05:54] the parliament decides by majority,
[00:05:58] meaning 360 votes, that's what I mean by majority,
[00:06:02] as described by Hersan, to renew the elections,
[00:06:05] then the president can be a candidate
[00:06:08] one more time, yes, one more time, it says.
[00:06:11] That is, if the parliament decides to renew the elections, of course, now Article
[00:06:15] 116 of the Constitution
[00:06:17] did not write such a special
[00:06:21] article because it thought that the president
[00:06:25] or this parliament would not act against the constitution, its purpose,
[00:06:28] and spirit. It did not write a special article about
[00:06:32] when an election is early and when it is not,
[00:06:35] like whether an election held in the last year is an early election
[00:06:38] or not. But it is clear that the framers of the constitution,
[00:06:42] that is, what the parliament meant by the phrase
[00:06:45] "renewal of the elections," meant this:
[00:06:48] a president served for five years, then
[00:06:52] became a candidate for a second term, and was re-elected, but
[00:06:56] the parliamentary majority is not on his side, and the parliament
[00:06:59] convened and decided to renew the elections
[00:07:02] in the first year of his term,
[00:07:05] and the president's term has expired.
[00:07:08] In this case, the president will ultimately have served
[00:07:12] 5 + 1 years of presidency, not 5 + 5.
[00:07:16] In order to prevent this, that is, in order for him to complete
[00:07:20] the 10-year period, the framers of the Constitution
[00:07:24] intended that if such a decision is made at the beginning of the term
[00:07:27] or at the latest in the middle of the term, then it can
[00:07:30] be called an early election, and the president
[00:07:33] can be a candidate. In 2017,
[00:07:36] when this constitutional amendment was made, I was also
[00:07:39] a member of that parliament. Yes, discussions were also held
[00:07:43] in this way, meaning that
[00:07:47] because it was foreseen that those who would implement the constitution,
[00:07:50] that is, the parliament, the president, the Supreme Election Council, or
[00:07:54] the Constitutional Court, would not act against
[00:07:57] the constitution, no special exception article
[00:08:01] was added here, such as if elections are renewed
[00:08:03] in the last year, then a president who has served two terms
[00:08:07] cannot be a candidate again. A special prohibition article
[00:08:10] was not added here. This does not mean that Mr. Erdoğan can be a candidate
[00:08:14] in an election that will be held a week or a month earlier, but
[00:08:18] they are having this discussion now, so de facto, the term
[00:08:22] of the presidency that the constitution
[00:08:25] did not foresee, that is, the term rule, becomes 3 terms.
[00:08:29] That is, although the constitution does not foresee this,
[00:08:32] they want to have these discussions now and cut this off.
[00:08:36] In parliament, that is, the current de facto
[00:08:39] situation is that they have the opportunity to exceed
[00:08:43] the number 360. This alliance of the Justice and Development
[00:08:46] Party, the Nationalist Movement Party, and other political parties
[00:08:49] or deputies supporting them can reach 360.
[00:08:53] Therefore, they have an idea that Mr. Erdoğan
[00:08:56] can be a candidate one more time with a decision
[00:09:00] taken by the parliament a week, a month, or two months
[00:09:04] before its time. But this, in the end,
[00:09:08] means that
[00:09:11] if you ask any average constitutional expert,
[00:09:14] we can very easily state that the constitution
[00:09:17] does not foresee this, does not aim for this.
[00:09:21] The purpose of these discussions is this: let this discussion be held now,
[00:09:24] let it end, and let it be cut off, they say. This is the issue. That is,
[00:09:28] he is a candidate one more time, whatever you do,
[00:09:31] whatever you say. We have also drawn other constitutional
[00:09:35] institutions into our political partnership, such as the Supreme Election Council.
[00:09:39] That is, in the end, the Supreme Election Council will decide
[00:09:42] whether he can be a candidate or not.
[00:09:46] They are having this discussion now because they also have a foreseeability
[00:09:49] that these cannot decide otherwise. But an election
[00:09:52] is coming our way. Of course, you said you can find
[00:09:56] 360. There is a deficit of 30.
[00:09:59] Yes, so how will they find it if the AKP and MHP are not enough?
[00:10:03] I mean, within the arithmetic of this parliament,
[00:10:07] I mean, with independent deputies,
[00:10:10] and then other political parties, I'm just stating a possible
[00:10:14] prediction, they can reach 360,
[00:10:17] I mean, they won't have much difficulty, or
[00:10:21] even if they do, they can reach a point of 360,
[00:10:25] I think. But now, Mr. Sezgin says that,
[00:10:28] of course, for a year, but look, for a year, let me tell you this,
[00:10:31] Mr. Sezgin, please allow me to ask my question,
[00:10:35] and I will answer you again, please convey your comment. The critical point here
[00:10:38] is this: the mentioned date is one month
[00:10:42] before the normal election date, meaning they say May 2028,
[00:10:46] and they say let's hold it in April and make a decision together now,
[00:10:50] or with a certain majority. Now, in a normal
[00:10:54] election. A election that is brought forward by only one month
[00:10:57] clearly carries no other purpose than to enable Erdoğan to be a candidate again.
[00:11:01] Now, when this happens, for example, will the DEVA
[00:11:05] Party members support it, will the Future Party members support it,
[00:11:09] the Future Party actually eliminated itself, then will the DEN Party
[00:11:12] members support it, will the CHP members support it?
[00:11:16] That is, for a normal early election, they might
[00:11:19] convince some individuals from these parties, but can the deputies of these parties
[00:11:22] support a proposal for an election that is only brought
[00:11:26] forward by one month from its normal date? Can the
[00:11:29] government get their support? Well,
[00:11:32] I'm saying this in terms of the current environment. Of course, a one-year, one-and-a-half-year
[00:11:36] period is a long time in Turkish politics.
[00:11:39] As Mr. Demirel said, even 24 hours
[00:11:42] is a very long time in Turkey. Therefore, they want
[00:11:46] to reach a number that can guarantee this environment
[00:11:49] now. That is, they want
[00:11:52] to make a decision with the current
[00:11:55] parliamentary structure. That's the reason.
[00:11:59] They don't want to leave it for a year later, or
[00:12:02] three months before the elections.
[00:12:05] They want to guarantee it. I think the reason behind
[00:12:09] AK Party-affiliated circles voicing this is this.
[00:12:13] I understand. Let's turn to Fikret abi. I say
[00:12:16] that they may not find this majority
[00:12:20] a year later, or they may find this majority now.
[00:12:23] What is being discussed in Ankara?
[00:12:33] That is, after Erdoğan's statement
[00:12:37] was reflected in the public, that is, after a statement
[00:12:41] saying, "Hopefully, we will overcome the upcoming elections," was reflected,
[00:12:43] time left until the election, if we ask if they would support
[00:12:46] writes about it, or someone from the government side,
[00:12:49] this time a voice came from the palace, from Mehmet Uçum and so on.
[00:12:53] Let's make it now. Why is this?
[00:12:56] There must be a reason for this, Fikret abi, what do you attribute
[00:12:59] it to? Yes, Gökmen, I attribute
[00:13:03] these discussions and developments to the effort to guarantee
[00:13:06] President Erdoğan's candidacy one more time.
[00:13:09] That is, he wants to make an early election decision now,
[00:13:13] find 360 in the parliament now, and secure
[00:13:17] Mr. Erdoğan's third, and even fourth, candidacy.
[00:13:21] Since they have a concern that "what if the parliament changes in the future
[00:13:26] and we cannot make this decision," they want to make this decision
[00:13:29] by taking into account the current distribution
[00:13:32] of deputies. This is based on the fact that currently
[00:13:36] there is a framework law, a process of "Turkey without terrorism,"
[00:13:39] that the government is carrying out with the DEM Party. In that process,
[00:13:43] if some of Öcalan's expectations are met,
[00:13:46] the DEM Party may also support
[00:13:49] the AK Party's early election
[00:13:52] decision. That is, they want to make
[00:13:56] such a decision now they themselves may not have
[00:13:59] decided on that yet, but being disturbed. Because currently,
[00:14:03] the DEM Party has a closeness to the AK Party
[00:14:06] in the context of the "Turkey without terrorism" process, with Öcalan's involvement.
[00:14:10] They want to make an early election decision with the support of the DEM Party
[00:14:14] before this closeness is broken inaccurate.
[00:14:17] Mr. Erdoğan's third candidacy after the transition to
[00:14:21] the presidential system, his third presidency.
[00:14:30] Are they afraid of an accident along the way in the process?
[00:14:33] Yes, there could be an accident. The DEN Party's board
[00:14:36] could change. The "Turkey without terrorism" process might
[00:14:39] not proceed. The DEN Party might withdraw its support,
[00:14:42] and then an early election decision might not be made by finding 360 votes.
[00:14:45] And because they have the concern that Mr. Erdoğan might not be a candidate
[00:14:49] again, they want to make this decision now
[00:14:52] and secure the candidacy, because the current environment
[00:14:55] is suitable, the arithmetic is suitable, and the Party's
[00:14:59] support continues. This issue is being discussed
[00:15:03] within such an approach. Of course, the statement made
[00:15:07] by Mr. Mehmet Uçum also gives a direct date: April 16, 2028.
[00:15:10] This also shows that Tayyar gives the same date.
[00:15:13] Yes, I mean, this actually shows
[00:15:16] that the government
[00:15:18] is afraid of an early election to be held in the next year.
[00:15:22] It is afraid of losing the early election, because the economy
[00:15:26] is very bad, prices are rising,
[00:15:28] unemployment, minimum wage. It cannot fix these. It thinks
[00:15:32] that if it goes to the election in this economic crisis, it will lose.
[00:15:35] Therefore, it wants to use almost the entire normal presidential
[00:15:39] term, hold an early election on April 16, one month
[00:15:42] before the end of the term, and turn it into a parliamentary
[00:15:45] decision with the support of the DEM Party. It wants to turn it into a parliamentary
[00:15:49] decision so that candidacy can be possible again.
[00:15:52] But it also became clear that it is hesitant to go to an early election
[00:15:56] during that period, Gökmen, because if it thought it had a high
[00:15:59] chance of winning the early election, the AK Party could have made
[00:16:03] an early election decision at an earlier date and secured
[00:16:06] Mr. Erdoğan's candidacy again. Instead of doing this,
[00:16:10] it wants to hold an early election on April 16, 2028,
[00:16:13] one month
[00:16:16] before the normal date. That is, there is a one-month period compared to the normal period.
[00:16:19] Of course, as Mr. Tanrıkulu said,
[00:16:22] whether an election one month earlier counts as an early election is another
[00:16:26] matter of debate. But we understand that the government
[00:16:29] side has a high concern of losing an early election
[00:16:33] that will be held earlier. Therefore, they want to make an early
[00:16:36] election decision now, before the parliamentary arithmetic changes,
[00:16:40] before the stance of the DEM Party changes, and secure the candidacy.
[00:16:43] You can say that very easily. Okay, let's look at the parliamentary
[00:16:47] arithmetic then. It was in visual number 3, we had prepared it.
[00:16:50] What does the parliamentary arithmetic say? Sezgin Tanrıkulu said
[00:16:54] that they could reach 360, because 360
[00:16:57] is needed, three-fifths is needed. He
[00:17:00] was right to some extent. How? He is somewhat proving Sezgin Bey
[00:17:03] right. Is that so? Do you also agree? Somewhat, yes.
[00:17:07] Justice and Development Party 280,
[00:17:11] New Party 91, DEM Party 56, MHP
[00:17:15] 46. If you add up AK Party and MHP,
[00:17:18] it makes 280, 320, 326. If you also
[00:17:21] add HÜDA PAR, it's around 330. So there are 30 left.
[00:17:25] Now, where will those 30 come from? Will they
[00:17:28] come from DEM Party members? Will they come from CHP?
[00:17:31] Will they come from CHP members? There are 44 CHP members.
[00:17:35] They won't come from Good Party members, right, Doğan Hoca?
[00:17:38] Will they come from the New Road Group? I mean, will DEVA Saadet come? Doğan Hoca, you're saying
[00:17:42] New Welfare. Three of them are outside, of course, not within
[00:17:45] the 20. But the independent 11
[00:17:49] people are important. Yes, the independent 11 are important. Yes, and here
[00:17:52] there is HÜDA PAR, there is New Welfare, there are 3 TIP, there are 2 Democratic,
[00:17:56] 2 Labor Party, 1 Felicity Party, 1 DSP, 1 DSP is also important.
[00:18:00] Now, you are asking if they will reach 360.
[00:18:02] The possibility is not impossible,
[00:18:06] and it's not difficult either, I think. Especially, will the DEM Party members,
[00:18:09] for example, I'm saying this excluding DEM. Okay, let me
[00:18:13] ask you this, if you allow me. Let's say next month they put this into effect,
[00:18:17] they gathered the parliament, friends,
[00:18:20] say the name, 2028, on April 16, they said
[00:18:24] let's make an early election decision now. They found 360,
[00:18:27] they exceeded 360. Do you think
[00:18:30] that in such a short time, within one or two
[00:18:34] months, if they make this move, will the DEM
[00:18:36] Party deputies support this? Can the DEM Party explain this to the public?
[00:18:40] I think, because I will repeat the critical point here, an election only one month
[00:18:44] before the normal election means only guaranteeing
[00:18:47] Erdoğan's candidacy. They can explain this to the public.
[00:18:50] Now, for the DEM Party, let's start from there, for the DEM Party
[00:18:54] to support this process in this way, it is especially
[00:18:57] necessary for some important stages
[00:19:00] to be reached in the process that it desires and expects.
[00:19:04] That is, it needs to go above a certain level. This framework law
[00:19:08] was important. They also gave importance to it and called
[00:19:11] for support for it from the public, especially from the democratic public
[00:19:15] and intellectuals. But on that issue, they have some
[00:19:19] problems with mobilization. There are very serious discussions
[00:19:22] within their own public and within the party about
[00:19:26] where this process regarding the solution of the Kurdish question
[00:19:29] will progress, their expectations and Abdullah Öcalan's
[00:19:32] expectations. As you know, some expectations at various
[00:19:36] levels have not been met. Because of this,
[00:19:39] I don't think the DEM Party would support such a decision
[00:19:43] in the current known conjuncture
[00:19:46] without a guarantee. When steps are taken
[00:19:49] in the process as they wish,
[00:19:52] as was the case with the New Party's
[00:19:55] support
[00:19:57] for the framework law, I say that there will be
[00:20:01] problems. That is, since it is also a democratic party,
[00:20:05] there will be different voices there. There will definitely
[00:20:08] be those who support and those who do not. But I don't
[00:20:11] expect the DEM Party to support such a thing
[00:20:15] given the current position, because even though the process
[00:20:19] is currently going in the direction they want,
[00:20:22] the expected returns, amnesty, etc.,
[00:20:26] the steps that need to be taken, the government is quite
[00:20:29] slow on that. The reason for the government's
[00:20:32] slowness is also related to the election, because the government has two
[00:20:36] concerns. One of them is...
[00:20:50] Erdoğan also states this. Now, two things emerged in Erdoğan's
[00:20:54] discourse. One is the "overcoming" discourse in his Rize
[00:20:57] speech, which expresses concern about the election.
[00:20:59] He said, "We will succeed in overcoming it." So, we understand
[00:21:03] from that that they thought and discussed it. On the other hand,
[00:21:07] the word "overcoming" indicates a concern, that there is at least
[00:21:10] a problem. Secondly, he says, "We are also
[00:21:13] aware that there is an economic problem and we need to take steps
[00:21:17] to solve it." This means that elections are being discussed, and his inner
[00:21:26] circle is experiencing economic problems. Now, at this point, it's a bit of a mystery
[00:21:30] how quickly they will take steps and get support.
[00:21:33] But when you look at this table, ultimately, today, one of the most
[00:21:37] important partners of the People's Alliance is the CHP. That's why there are
[00:21:41] 44 deputies there. It's not clear how many of these 44
[00:21:44] deputies, through coercion or bargaining
[00:21:48] or various means that are now considered outdated.
[00:21:51] The number of the 44 deputies who directly positioned themselves
[00:21:55] next to Kılıçdaroğlu is not less, right? I mean, yes,
[00:21:58] but still it's a small proportion. Since there are 30 deputies,
[00:22:02] you don't have to get all 44 of them there. Secondly,
[00:22:06] it's not clear if these 11 independent
[00:22:08] people will be candidates in the next elections. They are very important.
[00:22:12] In such a parliament, in the next election, people who think they will not be nominated
[00:22:15] will act a bit more according to their personal and material
[00:22:19] interests. I'm not implying that the 11 independent
[00:22:22] deputies there are under suspicion, but as a matter of political
[00:22:26] debate, they have such characteristics
[00:22:29] that we are accustomed to. There is DSP there.
[00:22:33] DSP was also a part of the People's Alliance in the elections.
[00:22:37] So, when you look at this table, it might not be very difficult
[00:22:40] to find 30 votes on top of AKP, MHP,
[00:22:43] and HÜDA PAR, excluding the DEM Party.
[00:22:47] But if they get the DEM Party, they can do it very easily.
[00:22:50] Then the constitutional debate might also come to the agenda,
[00:22:53] and they can do whatever they want with the constitution. But I don't
[00:22:57] think the DEM Party would get involved in this
[00:23:01] much in this position. Let me say a couple more things, of course, but keep it in mind,
[00:23:04] I'll come back for another round. This is enough for now. No, say it, but keep
[00:23:08] it in mind, because we will discuss this extensively. This issue has more than
[00:23:12] one dimension. Please. Okay, okay, then
[00:23:16] I also agree with this early election issue.
[00:23:18] Of course, there is also a certain hesitation
[00:23:22] among the citizens and their base regarding the initiatives taken by the AKP,
[00:23:25] the operations carried out by the government, especially in certain
[00:23:29] segments. Now, this is a very serious ethical problem,
[00:23:32] because there is no clear regulation in the constitution,
[00:23:35] but as the law maker
[00:23:38] said, even if the early election is held one or two months earlier,
[00:23:42] or even a couple of weeks earlier, a chief advisor to the president
[00:23:46] said that an early election is an early election, which is probably how they will interpret it,
[00:23:50] because right now, the situation that manifests
[00:23:54] is whatever they want to interpret. That's why
[00:23:58] I agree with Tanrıkulu on that.
[00:24:01] Because of this, this election debate
[00:24:05] has now come to the fore, so Uçum's statement
[00:24:08] or Tayyar's statements are important
[00:24:11] because this shows that we have entered the election period,
[00:24:15] and those circles that were previously in the background
[00:24:18] they are concerned about.
[00:24:32] Selvi draws attention to the economic dimension and 5 in
[00:24:36] the visual. Let's
[00:24:38] convey
[00:24:40] it. So, it won't be like this, says Selvi, trying to convey this.
[00:24:44] Okay, so the election should be brought forward, etc., late 2027
[00:24:48] or early 2028, but? "Yes, Turkey's course is now an election,"
[00:24:52] he says. I'm surprised he didn't write about İmamoğlu, very interesting, he didn't write today,
[00:24:56] I was surprised, I was very shocked. Pensioners, who form the AK Party's
[00:24:59] voter base, minimum wage earners, and tradesmen
[00:25:02] are in trouble. Look, it's important that Selvi is aware of this.
[00:25:06] He knows it's in trouble. Pensioners
[00:25:09] represent a mass of 17 million people. It's clear how pensioners gave a lesson in the local elections.
[00:25:13] Demirel, after 50 years of political experience, said that there is no government that the pot cannot overthrow.
[00:25:17] For this reason, the AK Party has no choice but to fix the economy. President Erdoğan
[00:25:21] said at the AK Party's Central Decision and Executive Board meeting that there are economic
[00:25:24] problems and we are aware of them. We are working to solve them. We have
[00:25:28] instruments to solve these problems. We will fix the economy. So, Erdoğan
[00:25:31] must have said at that meeting, we have
[00:25:34] instruments to solve this problem. Mr. Murat, do they
[00:25:38] have instruments to solve this problem?
[00:25:41] On the one hand, this economic picture is not just
[00:25:44] about the economy. You know, it's constantly talked about
[00:25:48] the dimension stemming from the legal situation in Turkey
[00:25:52] and preventing capital inflows. Uh, yes.
[00:25:55] whether it's the beginning of 2028
[00:25:59] or the end of 2020, whichever it is,
[00:26:03] as he said, can they go to an election in a way that can win the hearts
[00:26:07] of those 17 million pensioners? No, they can't.
[00:26:10] I always repeat the same thing, so I was closing the door
[00:26:13] to the possibility of an early election. So,
[00:26:17] the relationship between economy
[00:26:19] and democracy needs to be described like this:
[00:26:23] since the situation on that front, the democracy front,
[00:26:27] is not good, we see a deterioration on the economy side.
[00:26:30] But as the economy side deteriorates, we
[00:26:34] see a more authoritarian regime there, and it will be like this.
[00:26:38] If they can't get it from this side, they limit your room for maneuver
[00:26:41] from the other side. Their seizing municipalities, their
[00:26:44] making it impossible for municipalities to produce policies
[00:26:47] was because of this. I have been emphasizing the same thing
[00:26:51] since the local elections,
[00:26:54] made the right moves back then. It entered
[00:26:58] areas where it could directly contact the public, and seeing that it gained points
[00:27:01] there, it increased its effectiveness and directly tackled
[00:27:05] the implementations in this social policy area. So,
[00:27:08] it drifted into a path that prevents its rival from producing policies.
[00:27:12] Now, the upcoming process presents such a picture. So, that's why
[00:27:15] I don't really believe
[00:27:19] that democratic steps like the resolution process
[00:27:23] and such, which would complete this, can be taken in the area of democracy.
[00:27:26] Unfortunately, I might be painting a somewhat pessimistic picture for you,
[00:27:30] but we are in a global economy. I've put aside the failure
[00:27:33] of the national economy, the deviation of the inflation fighting program
[00:27:37] from its targets, etc. There's a serious failure internally,
[00:27:41] and I absolutely think it's wrong
[00:27:44] to blame a single person for this. It's not Mehmet Şimşek;
[00:27:48] Erdoğan is at the helm, because we're talking about
[00:27:51] a process where politics and economy go hand in hand.
[00:27:55] The main reason why capital doesn't enter,
[00:27:58] why permanent capital inflows don't occur,
[00:28:01] is political instability. And you will appreciate that this is not represented
[00:28:05] by one person. If there is one person at the top, it's not Mehmet Şimşek, it's Erdoğan
[00:28:09] himself. Now, look, there's a situation where
[00:28:12] the target has been largely missed, and
[00:28:16] for a return to an election economy, inflation needs to be brought under control
[00:28:19] to some extent. It seems there's stubborn inflation
[00:28:22] at 30%, and not much progress is being made there.
[00:28:26] And it seems not only 2026 but also 2027 won't be easy in that area.
[00:28:30] When we look at the global economy,
[00:28:34] look, yesterday the Fed raised interest rates. It seems highly
[00:28:36] likely that there will be another interest rate hike by the end of the year.
[00:28:40] And the possibility of interest rate hikes
[00:28:44] continuing next year is quite high.
[00:28:47] We are facing a global inflation wave. We will probably
[00:28:50] talk about those in later sections, but
[00:28:53] here, the price of this engine... Yes,
[00:28:57] but these are all connected. The man attacked Russia,
[00:29:00] hit and destroyed five refineries, and Russia is the most important
[00:29:03] diesel producer in the world. Especially, Russia is the main producer
[00:29:07] of the diesel we import.
[00:29:10] This affected us most of all. So, while diesel prices
[00:29:14] increased globally, they increased even more in our country.
[00:29:17] But on the other hand, there's also the Trump factor. We're talking about an incredibly
[00:29:20] strange leader, incredibly inconsistent. Two days ago, the man lashed out at Ukraine,
[00:29:24] saying, "What are you doing? You've turned global markets upside down!
[00:29:27] Stop hitting the refineries!" He himself had hit refineries in Iran
[00:29:31] before. So now, all refineries, of course,
[00:29:34] don't produce diesel at the same rate, but Russia was very critical here.
[00:29:38] Those five refineries played an important role. But both in Iran, the ones hit in Tehran,
[00:29:41] and the refineries that Iran hit
[00:29:45] on the other side, all of these together,
[00:29:48] we see the results of the war triggered by Trump.
[00:29:52] And the reason for its rise more than in Europe
[00:29:55] is that these are transported by ships. There's also this ironic
[00:29:58] side to it: these ships also burn diesel. That's why diesel
[00:30:01] is important. Now, for Europe, what is it?
[00:30:03] 15-20% or so. It's lower in America, but agriculture uses diesel,
[00:30:06] motor fuel. Industry uses motor fuel.
[00:30:10] Transportation uses motor fuel. That motor fuel is brought
[00:30:14] by ships that use motor fuel. So transportation costs
[00:30:17] also become more expensive. Now, in terms of global production
[00:30:20] conditions, in terms of supply chains, a very serious problem
[00:30:24] is being experienced. It's not possible to solve this in the short term,
[00:30:27] because you can't immediately substitute this production capacity,
[00:30:31] open new refineries, or immediately replace
[00:30:35] the lost capacity in existing ones. What I see... still,
[00:30:38] they say one year. Because of this, some of these price increases
[00:30:42] seem permanent. In an environment where
[00:30:45] inflation is not falling, where this upward movement in inflation
[00:30:48] is permanent, central banks try to get ahead of it by raising interest rates.
[00:30:52] Now, can you imagine what would happen
[00:30:56] to a Turkey that lowers interest rates in a period when the world
[00:30:59] is raising interest rates? I will say you can. Because we also
[00:31:02] tried this and saw how the Turkish economy was dragged
[00:31:06] into a dead end. I don't think they'd want to repeat
[00:31:09] this. This time, the cost will be very heavy,
[00:31:12] because unlike before, they took low inflation
[00:31:16] and brought it to a very high level. Today, they already
[00:31:20] have high inflation that they can't bring down. If they push this even higher,
[00:31:22] it would be a very bad election scenario. They had some room for maneuver
[00:31:26] there. They had managed to carry out the election by increasing
[00:31:29] the minimum wage and so on, by artificially increasing
[00:31:32] wages for a while. Because it must be said,
[00:31:36] some friends also discussed at that time,
[00:31:39] "Oh, the pot was bringing down the government,"
[00:31:43] but it didn't, my friend. What the pot did was this: the man
[00:31:46] had a real gain in wages at that time, there was no loss
[00:31:50] there. We said that inflation would cause this loss
[00:31:53] in a very short time, and then we saw it in the next 6 months.
[00:31:57] After that, another 6 months,
[00:32:00] meaning that the inflation gain that citizens
[00:32:03] would be exposed to after winning the election
[00:32:07] would erode it, we said. You said
[00:32:10] it, and that's what happened. So now, in 6 months,
[00:32:14] can they make such reliefs again, Mr. Murat?
[00:32:16] Now, this is the goal. As they enter the election,
[00:32:20] we will probably see the steps of this from the second half of 2027 onwards.
[00:32:24] The credit market will start to expand. Now, with these operations,
[00:32:27] they are also doing some cleanup, clearing the way. Now, foreign
[00:32:31] capital wouldn't enter the stock market in this state.
[00:32:33] Now they will clean up those places a bit, they will make room.
[00:32:37] However, in such a situation, this expansionary
[00:32:39] policy will have very serious inflationary
[00:32:43] consequences. Currently,
[00:32:46] entering such an election process with very high inflation
[00:32:49] also has high costs and is unsustainable. What was the problem
[00:32:53] last time? Reserves. So, you also need to keep the exchange rate stable.
[00:32:56] You can't let the exchange rate go, because when you do,
[00:32:59] it directly affects citizens' pockets. So, you also need to keep the exchange rate stable.
[00:33:03] That's why reserves need to be strengthened. Currently, Turkey is not ready
[00:33:07] for such an election process. The picture is very negative
[00:33:09] in international markets. It's not possible to say that it will be better
[00:33:12] in the second half of 2027, etc., but at least
[00:33:16] they will want to gain time until then. If not, option B
[00:33:19] is to eliminate the opposition. By "eliminate," I don't mean an election without an opposition party,
[00:33:23] of course, but a situation where they can choose the candidate they want.
[00:33:26] So, when you look at the picture
[00:33:29] we just talked about here, yes, not all of CHP,
[00:33:32] there are people we know very well there, some of whom are staying there
[00:33:36] because Kılıçdaroğlu won't be permanent and it's good for their own political careers.
[00:33:39] They can pave the way for them, but some of them will no longer
[00:33:43] have a political career. In significant numbers here,
[00:33:47] now, a person who says yes to such an offer from the AKP
[00:33:50] will no longer have a chance in left-wing politics.
[00:33:54] They can probably gather some from there. They might find such support from the "new way" group
[00:33:58] as well; they shook that quite a bit, they reduced those they could reduce.
[00:34:01] But something could happen from there as well. I think the first option
[00:34:04] is to secure it from there. You think they can find 360, right, hocam?
[00:34:08] I thought they could find it from there, but what Fikret Bey said is very
[00:34:11] true. Well, why would you try to determine
[00:34:15] a future date from today?
[00:34:19] It might be a weak argument, but a very
[00:34:22] Kılıçdaroğlu'nun kalıcı olmayacağı ve kendi siyasi kariyerleri
[00:34:26] açısından iyi olduğu için orada duruyorlar yani önlerini açabileceği
[00:34:29] için ama bir kısmının da artık siyasi kariyeri olmayacak
[00:34:33] buradaki önemli sayıda, şimdi AKP'nin
[00:34:36] zaten böyle bir teklifine evet diyen bir kişinin
[00:34:40] artık solda siyaset şansı olmayacaktır, oradan
[00:34:44] bir kısmını devşireb. "Yeni yol grubundan da belki böyle bir destek
[00:34:48] bulabilir, orayı bayağı bir salladılar, düşürebildiklerini düşürdüler
[00:34:51] ama, oradan da bir şey olabilir, bence de birinci seçenek
[00:34:54] oradan onu sağlamak, 36'ı siz de bulabileceklerini düşünüyorsunuz değil mi hocam,
[00:34:58] weak argument.
[00:35:02] "To alleviate the unrest in the markets." For God's sake,
[00:35:05] when you look at the unrest in the markets, only a small part of it
[00:35:09] is due to the expectation of an early election. Markets are not fluctuating because
[00:35:12] of the expectation of an early election. The reason foreign capital is not coming in
[00:35:16] is not the expectation of an early election or anything like that. The main issue
[00:35:19] is this: it means they think this support
[00:35:23] will not be permanent, and they are trying to guarantee it.
[00:35:27] What kind of support might not be permanent here?
[00:35:30] The DEM side. As we always say,
[00:35:34] this "resolution process"
[00:35:37] an external concern side and an internal concern
[00:35:40] side. There was no question of patriotism or the nation in any of this.
[00:35:44] This was entirely part of the government's
[00:35:47] search for a way to stay in power, and therefore,
[00:35:51] we knew they wanted this support in exchange for
[00:35:53] certain promises and pledges. Perhaps they will try to tie this up,
[00:35:56] but I agree with Doğa on this too; this is not
[00:35:59] a party like CHP. The party I'm talking about
[00:36:03] is a party that is ideologically consistent within itself.
[00:36:05] Without seeing some concrete promises being fulfilled and steps being taken,
[00:36:09] they won't give that support.
[00:36:12] Okay, İsmail Emretelci, is the government trying to put
[00:36:16] the early election in its pocket? Are they saying, "Let's make a decision on this
[00:36:19] from the parliament, and it's not even that early, it's just a month before the election.
[00:36:23] Let's put that in our pocket, and then let's look ahead"?
[00:36:26] What's your comment? Well, they're doing something like this:
[00:36:29] the constitution is clear. Mr. Tanrı Kulu said this.
[00:36:33] Let me do this for him: there is a concept called "ratio legis,"
[00:36:36] fitness for purpose. What is the purpose of this constitutional rule?
[00:36:40] Now, let's say Erdoğan is in power.
[00:36:43] Despite Erdoğan, the parliament,
[00:36:47] without Erdoğan's support – because his term
[00:36:50] of office is still continuing, he was elected –
[00:36:53] the parliament said, "I want to have an early election."
[00:36:57] And it reaches a majority of 360 in some way.
[00:37:01] But Erdoğan is in power. Erdoğan doesn't support this.
[00:37:04] They want to go to an election. Now, the constitution says
[00:37:07] that if a 3/5 majority
[00:37:10] in parliament makes such a decision,
[00:37:13] an early election will be held under those conditions.
[00:37:17] This is what we mean by "fitness for purpose" for this rule. This is the purpose
[00:37:21] of this rule. So, an early election
[00:37:24] or a brought-forward election happens despite you being in power.
[00:37:27] This is the rule. Now,
[00:37:31] can we say that Erdoğan will not support such a decision
[00:37:34] that the parliament will make?
[00:37:37] Such a thing is not possible. This would be a decision
[00:37:41] entirely dependent on Erdoğan and made according to Erdoğan's directives.
[00:37:45] Now, don't look at these people with advisor titles,
[00:37:49] or some ally of the alliance, or the small partner of the government.
[00:37:51] You know, they have all sorts of partners. Don't mind them expressing these things, and don't mind Erdoğan not speaking out.
[00:37:55] After all, that party has a general chairman. The AKP has 280 deputies,
[00:37:58] and there's no chance of an early election decision
[00:38:02] that Erdoğan doesn't want. Therefore,
[00:38:05] if such a decision is made, it will be a decision entirely
[00:38:09] against the constitution. But what I'm saying is valid
[00:38:12] in regimes with normal constitutional jurisdiction or in regimes
[00:38:15] where the High Election Council is truly independent.
[00:38:19] We know there's no such regime without one. So, can Erdoğan
[00:38:22] make this decision? He can, and then he can say,
[00:38:25] "This decision was made despite me."
[00:38:27] He can say that too, he can convince his base of it.
[00:38:31] But everything,
[00:38:35] as stated before, has this situation. What did Ton Barak say?
[00:38:39] He needs legitimacy, he says, because he knows
[00:38:42] he cannot do such a thing without legitimacy. Therefore,
[00:38:46] Erdoğan also does not want this to be the case. Today,
[00:38:48] you know, when Erdoğan went to New York for the United Nations
[00:38:52] General Assembly, he announced today that he would meet with Trump.
[00:38:55] Yes. Yes. He needs legitimacy.
[00:38:58] So, how will he provide this legitimacy now?
[00:39:01] Now, in the "Turkey Free of Terror" vote, such a picture emerged.
[00:39:05] It passed with a very large vote. Now they saw that,
[00:39:07] actually, the purpose of the votes
[00:39:09] was not support for the AKP.
[00:39:13] It was a vote given
[00:39:14] for the guns to fall silent, for the bloodshed to stop,
[00:39:17] for a path to be entered, for the wheel of history to turn forward.
[00:39:20] But the Justice and Development Party government
[00:39:24] always tries to deceive itself, and says, "I can find the legitimacy
[00:39:27] I'm looking for right here, right now."
[00:41:17] that doesn't even stop there, or they make this decision
[00:41:20] and this time they try to eliminate the opposition,
[00:41:24] meaning, the pressures and moves
[00:41:27] they have made against the opposition so far, perhaps a more intensified
[00:41:31] version of these could follow. We will discuss this section separately,
[00:41:35] because in Nuray Babacan's backstage news,
[00:41:38] both in terms of candidacy, to confuse people in terms of candidacy, and by putting more pressure on the new party,
[00:41:42] by making more moves, we will talk about what awaits us in that section.
[00:41:46] But let me see what our viewers are saying, and then let's listen to Sezgin Bey.
[00:41:49] Look, he says, "The Erdoğan we know
[00:41:53] doesn't enter an election he will lose.
[00:41:56] meşru olmayacağının farkındalar dolayısıyla meşru
[00:42:00] olmayan bir yapı ekonomide ne de
[00:42:04] diğer alanlarda hükmünü böyle istediği
[00:42:07] gibi eee doğrultamaz halka.
[00:42:10] uygulayamaz, bunun bilincinde olduklarını düşünüyorum, peki şimdi
[00:42:12] aslında Murat Birdal hocam az
[00:42:16] önce yorumunda hani belki de bununla
[00:42:19] da yetinmeyip ya da bu kararı alıp bu kez de
[00:42:22] muhalefeti eee yok etmek yani muhalefeti yok etmek anlamında
[00:42:26] muhalefete yönelik şu ana kadar yapmış oldukları bir takım
[00:42:29] baskılar, hamleler belki bunların daha da katmerlisine gidecek bir
[00:42:33] süreç olabilir, bu bu bölümü ayrıca konuşacağız,
[00:42:36] çünkü eee Nuray Babacan'ın bir kulis haberinde.
[00:42:44] hem adaylık anlamında adaylık anlamında insanların kafasını karıştırmak hem de
[00:42:47] yeni partiye daha eee yüklenerek daha da fazla hamleler yaparak o
[00:42:51] bölümde konuşuruz bizi neler bekleyebilir eee ama
[00:42:54] izleyicilerimiz
[00:42:56] ne diyor ona da bakayım ondan sonra Sezgin beyi dinleyelim bakın diyor
[00:42:59] ki eee bizim bildiğimiz Erdoğan
[00:43:03] There's another calculation here."
[00:43:06] Yes, this is something that is said very often, but after all, he enters an election.
[00:43:14] onu bir şekilde şu an kaybediyor gibi görünse de anketlerde acaba
[00:43:17] kazanabileceği
[00:43:20] bir şekle başka türlü dönüştürebilir mi? bunun arayışlarının olduğu
[00:43:23] söyleniyor. Osman Ahunbay diyor ki, sanki çocuk
[00:43:26] kandırıyorlar diyor. Bu şeyle ilgili enstrümanlarımız var,
[00:43:30] Erdoğan demiş ya ekonomi düzeltecek enstrümanlarımız var
[00:43:33] diye, yani Selvi bunu duyuruyor AKP MyK'sında. O da
[00:43:37] diyor ki, sanki çocuk kandırıyorlar, madem enstit.
[00:43:42] Even if he seems to be losing now in the polls, can he
[00:43:46] transform it into a shape where he can win in another way?
[00:43:49] It is said that he is looking for this. Osman Ahunbay
[00:43:53] says, "It's like they're fooling children." This is about
[00:43:56] "we have instruments." Erdoğan said, "We have instruments
[00:43:59] to fix the economy." So Selvi is announcing this
[00:44:02] in the AKP MYK. He says, "It's like they're fooling children.
[00:44:06] If you had instruments, why is the economy in this state?"
[00:44:10] In other words, "You have instruments, but there's no artist to play them?" he says.
[00:44:14] Uh, he says, "This is not happening."
[00:44:17] He said it very well. Then Hatice Karahasan said
[00:44:20] that she thinks the reason they are trying to determine
[00:44:23] the election date so early is this:
[00:44:26] due to pressures and bad governance,
[00:44:30] that is, to suppress the public's anger by giving an election date.
[00:44:33] She thinks that's the reason. Then Tayfun Baran says, "Mr. Tanrıkulu
[00:44:37] talks about the YSK, but, you know,
[00:44:41] elected officials are arrested without trial,
[00:44:44] what will the YSK do, etc.?" In this environment,
[00:44:48] Yelda Öztürk also said, "Honestly, they are the ones who buttoned it wrong,
[00:44:51] we are the ones paying the bill. We demand our right to urgent, tiered retirement."
[00:44:55] Faruk Avşar also said, "We are in a transfer period that never closes. The government will find 360."
[00:44:59] Transfers never end. "The quality of politicians but let it not have
[00:45:02] the ambition to change the government, that is, not be in that position.
[00:45:06] Now, what happened to the CHP, what happened to us...
[00:45:09] Look, after March 31, 2024,
[00:45:12] first they designed the judiciary.
[00:45:15] They built a judiciary in places where they would conduct operations.
[00:45:19] They created a judicial system that would conduct their own operations.
[00:45:23] Uh, they adjusted the security bureaucracy accordingly, and they adjusted
[00:45:26] the administrative bureaucracy accordingly. And on
[00:45:29] October 30, 2024, they pressed the button.
[00:45:32] They accused the CHP of collaborating with terrorism.
[00:45:36] When they didn't get a result from that, they started the operation in Istanbul
[00:45:43] on March 19. Look, if they had gotten a result
[00:45:46] from the operations on March 19, 2025, if the CHP, Özgür
[00:45:49] Özel's administration, had stayed at the CHP general headquarters, had stayed in Ankara,
[00:45:53] and had lost its claim to be the first party,
[00:45:56] there would have been no need for that operation on May 21, 2026,
[00:46:00] that unlawful operation called "absolute plunder." But they didn't get a result.
[00:46:02] Within a 14-month period, this time they came and seized the CHP
[00:46:06] unlawfully. So, one
[00:46:10] he won by one and a half votes in the second round, so it was a risky election for him.
[00:46:13] In the 2024 local elections, the Justice and Development Party, the absolute loser,
[00:46:17] lost at the ballot box even in this autocratic environment.
[00:46:21] After that, after March 2024, they are trying to transform the regime into this:
[00:46:24] all their actions are for a guaranteed autocracy,
[00:46:27] meaning, let there be elections, but let the result not change. Let there be opposition,
[00:46:30] değişmesin muhalefet olsun ama iktidarı değiştirme
[00:46:34] iddiası olmasın yani o pozisyonda olmasın
[00:46:38] şimdi yani Php'nin başına gelenler bizim başımıza gelenler
[00:46:42] bu bakın 2024 31 Martından sonra
[00:46:45] ilk önce yargıyı dizayn ettiler operasyon
[00:46:49] yapacakları yerlerde bir yargı inşa ettiler kendi.
[00:46:52] operasyonlarını yapacak bir yargı düzeni oluşturdular,
[00:46:56] eee güvenlik bürokrasisini buna göre ayarladılar ve idari
[00:47:00] bürokrasi de buna göre ayarladılar ve 31
[00:47:03] eee 30 ekim 2024'te düğmeye bastılar,
[00:47:07] işte CHP'yi terörle işbirliği yapmakla
[00:47:09] suçladılar, ondan bir sonuç almayınca da 19 Mart'ta
[00:47:13] İstanbul'daki operasyona başladılar. Bakın 19
[00:47:16] Mart 2025'teki operasyonlardan sonuç
[00:47:19] alsaydı, CHP Özgür.
[00:47:22] özel yönetimi CHP genel merkezinde
[00:47:25] kalsaydı, Ankara'da kalsaydı, birinci
[00:47:28] parti olma iddiasını kaybetseydi, 21 Mayıs
[00:47:32] 2026'daki
[00:47:34] o operasyona, mutlak Bultan denen hukuk dışı operasyona gerek
[00:47:37] kalmazdı. Ama bir sonuç alamadılar, 14 aylık süre
[00:47:41] içerisinde bu kez geldiler, CHP'ye el koydular, hukuk dışı
[00:47:45] by court order,
[00:47:48] even if a judge, a panel has ruled. "It is not
[00:47:52] a legal decision, I mean, it may be formally a court
[00:47:55] but it is not a legal decision, it is null and void in my
[00:47:58] opinion, and they seized the CHP leadership
[00:48:02] with that decision. Now,
[00:48:06] on July 24, a new party was founded, this party
[00:48:09] years, see this, they
[00:48:12] are trying to take its importance now, whether it is the opposition,
[00:48:16] yes, they are looking for political legitimacy, as
[00:48:19] İsmail said a little while ago, "command,"
[00:48:23] it must be legitimate, but that political legitimacy
[00:48:26] should not be strong enough to change
[00:48:29] Erdoğan and this government, this is what they want to do,
[00:48:32] they are spreading this fear, what fear are they spreading,
[00:48:35] they are trying to spread this idea, today, even the bath attendant says this,
[00:48:39] the shopkeeper says this, they won't leave, they won't
[00:48:42] give up, or an AK Party voter
[00:48:46] who has broken away from them is trying to say this, that
[00:48:49] no one but Erdoğan can govern this country. With
[00:48:53] so many troubles inside and outside,
[00:48:57] they are trying to create a two-sided fear, a weariness,
[00:49:01] and we are dealing with these, we are trying
[00:49:05] to do this, we are telling
[00:49:07] both AK Party voters and voters who have broken away
[00:49:10] from the AK Party that Turkey cannot be governed worse than this,
[00:49:14] it cannot be worse, how can it be worse, you have
[00:49:18] been in power for 25 years, with 100 liras,
[00:49:21] 100 liras, not even one
[00:49:26] fuel. Oh, here, sorry, you were just showing it, show it again. Yes,
[00:49:30] not even one liter of fuel comes. In
[00:49:32] 2009, the Justice and Development Party was in power,
[00:49:36] they put this money into circulation,
[00:49:39] when they put it into circulation, 40 liters of fuel came with it,
[00:49:42] now you can't even get 1 liter. So they were there then,
[00:49:46] now the citizens, I mean, young people, new
[00:49:50] voters, etc., don't know about this, people forget,
[00:49:53] as if when this money came into effect in 2009, there was
[00:49:57] another government in Turkey, or there are so
[00:50:00] many operations every day, every day in some
[00:50:03] place, I mean, against gangs, etc.,
[00:50:06] I mean, okay, but I mean, these, I mean,
[00:50:10] the government didn't change a year or two ago, this government
[00:50:13] was in power, I mean, in the end, what
[00:50:17] happened in the stock market,
[00:50:20] I mean, these have been happening for a year or two. You shared
[00:50:24] a queue on social media today from Diyarbakır, what was that? Well,
[00:50:27] look, believe me, my heart aches, really,
[00:50:31] I mean, in the end, in the whole world, it is thought that when
[00:50:34] a retiree retires after a service, they should
[00:50:37] live in peace, they should eat their fill
[00:50:41] with dignity and peace, I mean, they should not have
[00:50:44] any worries about the future, etc., I mean, they should
[00:50:48] live in security, they should live in good health conditions.
[00:50:51] After working for 25, 30, 40 years, now in Diyarbakır,
[00:50:55] look, there are queues
[00:50:58] every day in front of the Meat and Fish Institution's sales office,
[00:51:02] every day, people get up at
[00:51:04] 5 in the morning for the ticket queue, sorry,
[00:51:08] Mr. Sezgin, my
[00:51:12] director couldn't reach me, but I have to go to commercial,
[00:51:15] I didn't hear it.
[00:51:18] My heart really ached, I will tell you about this later,
[00:51:20] okay.
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[01:00:26] Açıkça continues, dear viewers, in this segment, lawyer
[01:00:30] Figen Çalıkuşu is also with us via remote connection. Welcome,
[01:00:33] Ms. Figen. Hello, good evening, Mr. Gökmen,
[01:00:36] I greet you, our viewers, and our guests. Hello.
[01:00:39] Thank you. Now, we talked
[01:00:42] before the break. Why did Mehmet Uçum say that Erdoğan
[01:00:45] will be the President for the last time? It is suitable
[01:00:49] for April 16, 2028,
[01:00:53] that is, one month before the normal election date, April 16 is important
[01:00:57] and symbolic, it is the anniversary of the acceptance of the referendum
[01:01:01] for this new presidential government system. Why did
[01:01:03] he say these things, and other names accompanied
[01:01:07] him while he was saying them? Abdülkadir Selvi also
[01:01:10] said it could be the end of 2027 or the beginning of 2028. Şamil
[01:01:13] Tayyar said he heard from AKP members
[01:01:16] that April 16, 2028 is seen as the first
[01:01:20] round, and April 2 as the second round for the presidential
[01:01:23] election on April 16, and
[01:01:26] this decision should be made now, that is, it would be good if the decision
[01:01:30] that there will be early elections in April 2028
[01:01:33] is made now. This discourse has emerged
[01:01:37] as a new discourse. We are discussing what is behind
[01:01:40] this. Mr. Sezgin Tanrı was talking, of course, there is
[01:01:43] also an economic dimension to it, because without the economy improving,
[01:01:47] retirees, workers, these people, without
[01:01:51] taking a slight breath, the government does not have
[01:01:54] the chance to go to elections easily. He shared a queue
[01:01:58] in Diyarbakır today, he was explaining it,
[01:02:02] we went to commercial. What kind of queue was it, Mr. Sezgin, can
[01:02:06] you briefly explain it? Very briefly, the Meat and Fish
[01:02:09] Institution sells meat cheaper
[01:02:12] in its organized sales stores than the market,
[01:02:16] than markets and butchers. Ground meat is 400 lira,
[01:02:20] diced meat is 440 lira, this
[01:02:23] is the price, retirees,
[01:02:26] most of them elderly people, those I spoke to.
[01:02:31] To buy 1 kilo of ground meat and 1 kilo of diced meat,
[01:02:34] they queue up at 5 in the morning,
[01:02:37] they wait, they get a ticket at 8:30,
[01:02:40] and at 9:30, they queue up again, and
[01:02:43] if there is still meat
[01:02:46] left, they try to get meat.
[01:02:50] So, for a discount of 300-400 liras,
[01:02:53] retired people, elderly people
[01:02:56] in the morning, and a few people said, we come here after
[01:03:00] morning prayer and queue up. They expressed these concerns,
[01:03:04] look, Mr. Sezgin, you will say this, tomorrow or the next
[01:03:07] day they won't sell us this meat either, they eliminated this queue so it wouldn't
[01:03:10] be seen, we won't be able to buy this meat. They also expressed
[01:03:14] such a concern. Well, look, we are talking about
[01:03:17] a system of poverty where people queue for hours
[01:03:20] to buy 1 kilo of ground meat for 200-300 liras
[01:03:24] cheaper. There is such a system,
[01:03:27] and the average pension is 23,000
[01:03:30] liras, 27-28,000 liras,
[01:03:34] and there are 17 million people,
[01:03:37] I mean, retirees, do they not see these? What
[01:03:41] did Mehmet Şimşek say just yesterday? He said, when the time
[01:03:44] comes, we will make an inflation adjustment. Which inflation?
[01:03:48] TÜİK's inflation, ENAK's inflation, or the real market's
[01:03:51] inflation? Which one will you use? If they make an inflation adjustment
[01:03:55] according to TÜİK, it will be 30%, 23,000 liras will be
[01:03:59] 30,000 liras, what will that be enough for?
[01:04:02] Therefore, they cannot fix this situation. So,
[01:04:06] as I tried to express, Figen
[01:04:09] put it conceptually and
[01:04:12] said to secure it. In the end,
[01:04:16] they are trying to create the conditions for Mr. Erdoğan
[01:04:19] to be a candidate one more time and to be re-elected
[01:04:22] in this oppressive environment by opening this discussion now
[01:04:26] and trying to get such a decision made with 360 votes
[01:04:30] in the parliament. This is what they are trying
[01:04:33] to do. Look, as our teacher said
[01:04:36] earlier, what happened in the stock market,
[01:04:39] I mean, even those who follow the stock market
[01:04:43] from afar knew that it would burst
[01:04:45] somewhere, that small savers
[01:04:49] would lose money, that
[01:04:52] big companies' funding source was not banks,
[01:04:56] but the stock market, that there was a squeeze somewhere
[01:05:00] and it would burst. Now, if those who follow the stock market
[01:05:04] from afar see this, how do those
[01:05:06] who created it not see it? And
[01:05:10] those who suffered damage are small savers,
[01:05:13] I mean, those who invested 300,000 or 500,000 liras
[01:05:16] of their savings there and tried to contribute to their
[01:05:20] budget, I mean, people
[01:05:23] whose economy is more balanced, these people
[01:05:27] suffered damage again, they suffered damage again.
[01:05:30] Thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people
[01:05:34] who joined and trusted the stock market in this way suffered damage
[01:05:37] from this situation, it is not clear how much more damage
[01:05:40] they will suffer. Well, I will turn to Ms. Figen,
[01:05:43] but Professor Murat, will the losses of those
[01:05:46] small investors be covered, how will it work?
[01:05:49] There is a Nasreddin Hoca anecdote, right?
[01:05:53] I mean, if you don't believe
[01:05:55] it was born, why don't you believe it died? I was looking at a stock
[01:05:59] certificate just now. It gained 20,000% in 3
[01:06:02] 20,000%. Look,
[01:06:06] now, to such an investment tool,
[01:06:10] it came out like this, as Mr. Sezgin said,
[01:06:13] there are some funds, and everyone knew
[01:06:16] that the stocks that these funds invested in performed
[01:06:20] very well, and everyone was trying to follow them.
[01:06:23] So, there is a process going on where there are groups on Telegram,
[01:06:27] etc., they join these groups, and certain
[01:06:31] people say they get tips from these funds,
[01:06:34] from fund managers, and tell them to jump in. If it works
[01:06:37] once or twice, you have to carry the stock,
[01:06:41] you will enter the stock, but then you will have
[01:06:44] to make others carry it so you can exit. That's how the mechanism
[01:06:48] works, first they enter, they drive it, then
[01:06:52] other people jump in, etc. I won't name
[01:06:55] names now, but the names are already out there, they jump in
[01:06:59] because these people entered. So, there was such a process
[01:07:02] in the stock market, especially recently,
[01:07:06] very intense movements, and these funds
[01:07:10] that carried them were known to everyone.
[01:07:13] If you ask why we were dragged into such a process, I think
[01:07:16] that's the most important thing, citizens couldn't
[01:07:19] protect their small savings against high inflation.
[01:07:23] I talked to a lot of people today, most of them retirees,
[01:07:26] there are students, a group of people with small amounts of money.
[01:07:42] With its winnings, a search began, and of course,
[01:07:46] they turned to these stock-heavy funds
[01:07:49] in the face of incredible returns. Normally,
[01:07:52] while the returns of the IMKB 100 index
[01:07:56] funds remained very low, when these incredible
[01:08:00] returns, as I just mentioned, emerged, it
[01:08:03] also appeared as an attractive element to citizens.
[01:08:06] Now, the reason I started with the phrase "will they
[01:08:10] get their losses back" is that just as it went up,
[01:08:14] it can also fall. The value of these funds is tied
[01:08:18] to these stocks, so now these funds are being liquidated,
[01:08:21] so there will be gradual selling. Many of
[01:08:24] their boards are currently opening
[01:08:28] at the floor, there is no buying side right
[01:08:32] now, I mean, there are no buyers, only sellers.
[01:08:35] At what values they sell, they will write
[01:08:38] that down, a pool will be created from that average, and
[01:08:42] then the collected money will be paid. For those who
[01:08:46] placed a sell order before 1.5 yesterday, it seems
[01:08:49] that a debt will be written for them, an advance payment
[01:08:52] will be made to them, and then it will be divided among the others,
[01:08:56] it seems. Yes, but how it will be done, we will see,
[01:08:59] but who will pay for the fund's money? The fund's money is
[01:09:03] in the fund, let's not say it's coming from the state,
[01:09:06] but for example, this participation house, yes,
[01:09:10] I mean, these savings finance
[01:09:19] companies are negotiating to acquire it. What will happen to those who suffered losses there? Those who suffered losses there,
[01:09:23] well, it seems the state will cover it. So,
[01:09:26] their situation is actually savings finance,
[01:09:30] so their purpose is savings, since it's savings,
[01:09:34] it's most normal for
[01:09:37] their money to be paid, I mean, it's most normal
[01:09:41] for the public to cover it, I mean, when I say normal.
[01:09:44] In this sense, now, if the topic comes up,
[01:09:47] we will say it, those who overlooked this,
[01:09:51] those who overlooked this, they overlooked it in an organized
[01:09:55] way, because Mehmet Şimşek made a statement last year
[01:09:57] that there is manipulation in the funds, and
[01:10:01] measures need to be taken. It's been more than a year,
[01:10:04] right, professor, they waited. What were you waiting
[01:10:08] for? I mean, we will talk about that when the time comes,
[01:10:11] that's a different thing, but let me ask the professor,
[01:10:15] because I am also curious, now funds declare default.
[01:10:18] Now, when they declare default, someone has a loan payment,
[01:10:21] someone else has another payment, I mean, people,
[01:10:24] in the end, there are those who will not be able to
[01:10:28] get their money even if they sell before 13:30 and
[01:10:31] it's fixed. Also, as announced, there are prices that
[01:10:35] are inflated excessively due to stock speculation,
[01:10:38] way above their value. Now,
[01:10:42] for example, there are people who buy a 5 lira stock for
[01:10:46] 50,000 liras, I'm just giving an example. Now,
[01:10:49] if this person
[01:10:52] places a sell order even before the hour,
[01:10:55] and this fund cannot pay it, what
[01:10:58] will happen, they won't get their money. Yes, but funds,
[01:11:02] but no, before the hour, even if they give it, professor, I'm saying that up until now,
[01:11:05] there are those who got their money the day before,
[01:11:09] and they were also called back. I'm not even talking about
[01:11:12] what happens after that, I'm not talking about after 13:30
[01:11:15] at all. I've seen some explanations
[01:11:19] that say a debt will be written, and they have
[01:11:22] already recorded it separately in their accounts,
[01:11:25] so a payment will be made as a debtor, but not at the current
[01:11:29] value. Look, the issue we call
[01:11:33] default is this: these funds can never meet
[01:11:36] collective demand instantly. These assets need to be converted
[01:11:39] into cash somehow, meaning they need to be sold.
[01:11:42] In stock funds, there is T+2, so you give it today,
[01:11:45] and it comes back to you as cash
[01:11:49] two days later. So, it cannot be done instantly.
[01:11:53] Moreover, in an environment where everyone is heavily
[01:11:57] invested, it cannot be converted into cash instantly. In such
[01:12:00] a situation, the market would collapse. There are other
[01:12:04] measures taken today. Look, behind the prevention
[01:12:07] of the market collapse, there is a decision made
[01:12:11] by the Capital Markets Board. Our main issue here is
[01:12:14] what we call a margin call. Here,
[01:12:17] we are now moving past small individuals. Big investors,
[01:12:20] qualified investors, etc., largely make
[01:12:23] leveraged purchases, meaning they don't buy with their
[01:12:27] own assets, they don't buy with the money in their bank,
[01:12:30] they might be playing with a very small amount of their own
[01:12:34] money, but largely with credit. And therefore, there is
[01:12:37] also a certain amount of equity protection here,
[01:12:41] it was around 35%. Your total assets, these
[01:12:45] BIST index stocks, are valued at 80-90%,
[01:12:48] smaller, worse stocks are valued at 20%.
[01:12:52] For example, an equity amount is calculated there.
[01:12:56] When this falls below 35%, meaning if you have a 100,000
[01:13:00] lira stock position, and the equity calculation
[01:13:03] for that position falls below 35,000,
[01:13:06] a sell order is given. This is called a margin call.
[01:13:10] In all major financial crises, in stock market crises,
[01:13:14] the main reason is this margin call. Now, when the situation
[01:13:17] of liquidating these funds arose, the
[01:13:20] most important threat was the margin call. Why did the banks
[01:13:25] collapse yesterday? I mean, actually,
[01:13:27] there is no situation that would threaten major banks
[01:13:31] like İş Bankası, Garanti Akbank, etc. The reason
[01:13:35] for a collapse led by all these big banks
[01:13:38] was a great concern in the market due to this margin call.
[01:13:42] By reducing the equity protection ratio here to 20%,
[01:13:45] the Capital Markets Board eased the market there,
[01:13:49] it separated other stocks, separated small
[01:13:52] stocks from large, reliable stocks. It said, okay, there's
[01:13:56] nothing we can do about the others, because you can't support those
[01:13:59] prices, they are not prices that can be supported. Unfortunately,
[01:14:03] it's a situation where the investor who enters there will largely
[01:14:06] be victimized. Each fund is within itself, one fund
[01:14:10] does not transfer to another. There are money market funds,
[01:14:14] government bond index funds, there is nothing there. In these
[01:14:18] stock funds, the losses of each fund will be evaluated
[01:14:21] within itself, and the stocks will be sold. Therefore, the loss
[01:14:40] that arises there will be distributed equally
[01:14:43] among all investors. There is no deposit guarantee
[01:14:47] for deposits in the other one, there is only the BRSA's
[01:14:49] supervision guarantee, meaning I supervise these, their operations
[01:14:53] are under my supervision.
[01:15:07] It didn't go bankrupt, look, it defaulted,
[01:15:11] it couldn't make payments, yes, it couldn't make payments,
[01:15:15] when there is a very strong outflow from the system at once,
[01:15:18] that money is tied to somewhere, it's the same for funds.
[01:15:22] When we say default, they say bankruptcy, no, a part of your asset is still there.
[01:15:25] At least, because the stock value has decreased,
[01:15:29] it cannot return to cash anyway. The nature of the asset is not suitable
[01:15:32] for it to turn into cash immediately, and if you try to turn it
[01:15:36] into cash immediately, the values will not stop anyway. The common
[01:15:38] aspect of the shares they play is,
[01:15:42] look, for a while, measures had started to be taken there.
[01:15:46] These are very low liquidity shares, meaning
[01:15:49] these brokerage firms that do not have much volume
[01:15:53] can easily make the share hit the ceiling with a single move and carry
[01:15:57] it at the ceiling for days. You cannot make such moves in
[01:16:00] large banks, etc., and they also did it in their savings,
[01:16:04] by the way, they showed their power, that was experienced
[01:16:07] in the past months, okay, let this be our trailer, we will talk about
[01:16:11] this at 23:00, dear viewers. Former MASAK
[01:16:14] Deputy Chairman Ramazan Başak will also be with us
[01:16:18] via remote connection.
[01:16:30] should be a candidate, 2. Early
[01:16:32] elections should be in April
[01:16:36] 2028, 3. This decision should be
[01:16:39] made now. What is this?
[01:16:42] Is the government afraid of a mishap
[01:16:45] regarding early elections? What might it be planning
[01:16:48] by putting this decision in its pocket now?
[01:16:52] What do you think is under all this agenda?
[01:16:55] Oh, Mr. Gökmen, they say
[01:16:58] life is what happens while you're making plans, right?
[01:17:02] So, this much has happened to us too, of course,
[01:17:05] actually you will talk about that in the next segment,
[01:17:09] but I would like to say this much: there is the
[01:17:12] first article of the Capital Markets Law,
[01:17:16] very clearly, the objectives of the law and
[01:17:20] the duties of the board are also listed, to ensure
[01:17:23] the secure, transparent, efficient, stable, fair, and
[01:17:26] competitive functioning and development of the capital market, and
[01:17:29] to regulate and supervise the capital market to protect the rights
[01:17:33] and interests of investors. It said this, it was not
[01:17:36] enough, it was not enough, and what else is there?
[01:17:40] There are sub-departments of the Capital Markets Board,
[01:17:43] the Surveillance and Inspection Department, it has a very clear
[01:17:47] job, I will just go to your question, if I don't say this, it won't
[01:17:51] sit right with me, very clear. What is its job? Look,
[01:17:55] really, here, it says to monitor unusual price and
[01:17:58] transaction volumes, the possibility of market fraud,
[01:18:01] and the shortcomings and information of collective
[01:18:05] investment institutions. "My duty,
[01:18:08] my duty. Now, since November, an international
[01:18:12] organization's warning in June, a new
[01:18:15] measure taken in August. We need to ask
[01:18:18] what they have done. While they were dealing with
[01:18:21] opposition municipalities, did those in the stock market
[01:18:24] relax? Was it overlooked? What happened? With all this
[01:18:28] concentration, this swell, how did this happen
[01:18:31] when there are legal obligations regarding surveillance and
[01:18:34] supervision? These are questions that demand answers. Okay, you will
[01:18:38] talk about this later, but we have very important legal
[01:18:41] legislation, and why haven't its requirements
[01:18:44] been met? We need independent institutions so much, don't
[01:18:48] we? Not just in the judiciary, but in all
[01:18:51] places. Now, let's come to the part you mentioned.
[01:18:54] First of all, the MPs will make this decision.
[01:18:57] Of course, it is known that our constitution
[01:19:00] is not being applied, but they swore
[01:19:03] to abide by the constitution with loyalty,
[01:19:07] honor, and integrity. Now, when it says elected
[01:19:11] kez seçilir derken anayasanın bir gerekçesi var, hani bize
[01:19:14] söylüyorlar gidiyoruz referandumda falan diye ama o anayasa
[01:19:18] yazılırken bir de gerekçe yazılıyor altına o gerekçede bu iki
[01:19:22] kezin ne olduğunu bilmeleri lazım bu oylamaya
[01:19:24] katılanların eee orada diyor ki yani
[01:19:28] çok güzel bir gerekçe o yüzden izninizle çok da kısa çok
[01:19:31] kısa demokratik sistemin temel taşlarından
[01:19:35] olan güçler ayrılığı ve iktidar. dengelenmesi
[01:19:38] ilkeleridir, bunun gerekçesi iki kez seçilmek. Bu
[01:19:42] hukuku, bu pardon, bu hüküm eee yetkin tek
[01:19:46] bir elde ve süresiz olarak toplanmasını
[01:19:49] engellemek, siyasi yenilenmeye
[01:19:53] ve yetki devrine, yetki devrine imkan
[01:19:56] sağlamak için konulmuştur. Şimdi biz şöyle bir
[01:20:00] garip durumdayız, eee, siyaset niye var,
[01:20:03] siyaset kurumu, bu yöneticiler falan, bu halkın.
[01:20:07] people and then promise prosperity and freedom,
[01:20:11] and they are supposed to deliver that prosperity and freedom.
[01:20:15] These elections have been going on for years,
[01:20:18] and there are economic problems, and we have seen many serious
[01:20:21] perceptions that push the people's economic problems to the
[01:20:25] background, such as existential problems, religious
[01:20:28] and ethnic fault lines, etc. What changes? Nothing changes.
[01:20:31] We are falling further and further behind, but unfortunately,
[01:20:35] they don't stop making us talk about
[01:20:38] elections and politics. And now, as your question
[01:20:42] also includes, today we are hearing and
[01:20:46] discussing the statements of the appointed person.
[01:20:49] There were already problems before.
[01:20:52] They are in trouble. President Erdoğan will enter
[01:20:55] his most difficult election. This shows it.
[01:20:58] It's a difficult election. The economic distress is
[01:21:01] already beyond explanation. It's being experienced.
[01:21:04] Due to the lack of independence of these institutions,
[01:21:08] we are facing another very serious robbery,
[01:21:11] and in this robbery, of course, we need to see if there are reflections
[01:21:15] of bureaucratic political identities,
[01:21:18] because that fire is constantly burning
[01:21:22] in our pockets, and we are talking about the
[01:21:25] Presidency again. Because it will be a very difficult
[01:21:29] election, they want to secure this.
[01:21:32] This is the only explanation for this.
[01:21:35] To find 360. At this point, of course,
[01:21:39] this process is also ongoing, the process of a Turkey
[01:21:42] without terrorism. Of course, we hope it continues successfully
[01:21:46] and ends, reaches its conclusion, we are all for that.
[01:21:49] Of course, it is progressing within the framework of security.
[01:21:53] Even if the legal aspect is missing, could there
[01:21:56] be a halt there? Could there be other developments
[01:22:00] that we don't know about? Is there a situation
[01:22:03] of securing it now to relieve themselves?
[01:22:08] But I want to say this: after such a decision
[01:22:11] is made, the function of the parliament is obvious.
[01:22:14] When we look at everything from the way laws are made
[01:22:18] to its budget, we are in a system where our representatives,
[01:22:21] the deputies, fulfill their duties effectively and competently,
[01:22:24] aren't we? After this election decision is made,
[01:22:28] we also need to see how the process in Turkey
[01:22:31] will work. Will the decision for early elections
[01:22:35] çağrı olacak mı erken seçim kararı? almak değil mi
[01:22:39] Erdoğan said something.
[01:22:42] He says, "If you can't buy
[01:22:46] the egg you bought with the minimum wage 8 years ago,
[01:22:50] if you can't buy milk, if you can't buy cheese,
[01:22:53] if you can't buy the bread you bought, or if
[01:22:56] you buy less, don't vote for me," he said
[01:22:59] in 2011. Now, this people
[01:23:02] has fallen behind in all of these, and Mr. Gökmen, he can't
[01:23:06] even control the egg prices. While he can't control
[01:23:08] egg prices, while diesel has reached triple
[01:23:11] digits, and we are still talking about early elections
[01:23:15] and being pressured to have early elections.
[01:23:18] they are in a situation.
[01:23:21] That's why I wanted to remind the MPs who will vote
[01:23:25] of their oath to the constitution. So, we need to consider
[01:23:28] how much more sacrifice this nation
[01:23:31] can make. If 5 million
[01:23:35] retirees today were to change their preferences,
[01:23:39] no matter what they do, even if they decide
[01:23:42] on early elections, even if President Erdoğan becomes a candidate
[01:23:46] one more time, the result will not be different.
[01:23:50] But for this process, the moves they will make
[01:23:53] not for the benefit of the people, but
[01:23:56] based on their own political strategies, for their own
[01:24:00] benefit, for their own seats, really, they talk about
[01:24:03] legitimacy in Turkey. I just watched the guests,
[01:24:07] forget about legitimacy, in terms of health,
[01:24:11] what will be left of the health of this country,
[01:24:14] these people, this society, this legislature, executive, and judiciary?
[01:24:18] That's a big question mark. So,
[01:24:22] now, I will ask my friends for visual number
[01:24:24] one, and then visual number two. Because Ms. Figen
[01:24:28] also said, let's say they gathered the parliament
[01:24:32] these days or in these weeks or in these months.
[01:24:36] They found 360, they passed and made the
[01:24:39] decision for early elections. After that decision, what
[01:24:43] will happen in the period leading up to the early elections?
[01:24:46] What will the citizens experience? What will the new party experience,
[01:24:50] IBB? What will happen to the trials, etc., etc.? Now,
[01:24:53] this is important, because when Şamil Tayyar
[01:24:56] put forward his proposal, saying, "I think it's
[01:25:00] beneficial to decide on early elections now, regardless
[01:25:04] of when they will be held under current conditions," he states
[01:25:07] that he believes this will benefit the country as follows:
[01:25:11] "Parties will continue their preparations accordingly, the concern of snap or early elections will
[01:25:15] disappear, political stress will decrease, polemics will end,
[01:25:18] normalization will begin." Look, he says, "political stress
[01:25:22] will decrease, polemics will end, and normalization will begin."
[01:25:24] I wonder if my guests think this way,
[01:25:28] that political stress will decrease, polemics will end, and
[01:25:31] normalization will begin, because there is
[01:25:34] a news piece shared by Nuray Babacan
[01:25:38] based on AK Party backstage information. What kind of game plan
[01:25:41] is the government in? What are the new
[01:25:45] plans they have prepared? Now, my friends
[01:25:49] prepared the headlines like this: The plans
[01:25:52] will be made for the second round.
[01:25:55] The plans will be made for the second round.
[01:25:58] A new area will be created for disgruntled
[01:26:01] conservatives. The DEVA, Felicity, and
[01:26:05] New Welfare alliance will be supported.
[01:26:08] Thus, in the first round, the opposition bloc
[01:26:12] will be divided.
[01:26:14] In the second round, negotiations can be held
[01:26:16] with these parties.
[01:26:20] Some of these names
[01:26:21] will be taken into the cabinet.
[01:26:25] The second round, with the support
[01:26:27] of old friends and the Dem Party,
[01:26:30] will be overcome. The second round,
[01:26:33] old friends, meaning DEVA, Felicity, New
[01:26:36] Welfare. And will be overcome with Dem Party support.
[01:26:40] The new party will be challenged with immunities
[01:26:43] and new trial processes. The new party will be challenged
[01:26:47] with immunities and new trial processes.
[01:26:50] "You can read a detailed article with breathing, dear
[01:26:53] viewers, it has described it in even more detail.
[01:26:57] Let's ask Fikret Abi. Fikret Abi, let's say such
[01:27:01] an early election date has been accepted in parliament,
[01:27:04] and an early election decision has been made.
[01:27:08] After it's accepted, what can Turkey experience
[01:27:11] until that date? Now, there are clues
[01:27:15] regarding this in the backstage information provided by Nuray Babacan.
[01:27:18] What do you say?" "Yes, of course, I
[01:27:22] have no doubt that the AK Party
[01:27:25] will seek the votes and support of conservative parties
[01:27:29] that are in opposition but can support the government,
[01:27:32] meaning it will seek the support of the parties
[01:27:35] forming a new path and their MPs.
[01:27:38] To guarantee their re-election, it may
[01:27:42] give them places from its own lists of
[01:27:46] MPs. With such an alliance, it can get
[01:27:50] votes. One of the ways
[01:27:53] to be able to decide on early elections
[01:27:55] now is to enter into a dialogue
[01:27:59] with these parties. Similarly, an alliance can be formed
[01:28:03] with independent candidates. As I stated
[01:28:06] in the first part, if the expectations of the Dem Party for a Turkey
[01:28:10] without terrorism are met to a certain
[01:28:14] extent, it can guarantee the support of the Dem Party
[01:28:17] in parliament. Thus, it will have decided
[01:28:20] on early elections. However, it is not
[01:28:23] possible to know whether policies will change or
[01:28:27] new policies will be adopted after the early election
[01:28:30] decision. But the AK Party wants to guarantee
[01:28:33] re-election by deciding on early elections before
[01:28:37] the current situation in parliament deteriorates further. The AK Party
[01:28:40] wants to guarantee Mr. Erdoğan's re-candidacy. We understand
[01:28:43] this. The reason for their haste is not
[01:28:46] to hold the elections too early, but to be able to decide
[01:28:50] on early elections immediately. They think that they might
[01:28:52] face a problem in the future, so now that the parliamentary
[01:28:55] arithmetic is suitable, let's include the new path MPs in the alliance,
[01:28:59] and let's also give places
[01:29:02] to independents and get their support. If we also
[01:29:06] get the Dem Party's MPs, then
[01:29:09] we will have the majority for an early election decision
[01:29:13] in the constitution. And once an early election
[01:29:16] decision is made, Mr. Erdoğan's third candidacy will be guaranteed.
[01:29:19] Considering the possibility of not being able to overcome
[01:29:22] future problems, it is understood that the ruling
[01:29:26] party is inclined to make this decision now. They are testing
[01:29:29] the waters for this, such initiatives may be taken.
[01:29:32] We will observe this. Now, regarding the framework
[01:29:36] law, regarding a Turkey without terrorism, there has
[01:29:39] not yet been very rapid progress. There is also
[01:29:43] a hesitation here that is worth remembering. Now,
[01:29:46] there is a public reaction to this. So,
[01:29:50] regarding the steps the AK Party
[01:29:53] will take, Bahçeli openly said he supported it,
[01:29:57] but the AK Party is a bit more distant, Mr. Erdoğan is a bit
[01:30:00] more distant from this issue, because in the 2013-2015
[01:30:03] period, another opening process
[01:30:06] was experienced, intellectuals, journalists,
[01:30:09] writers were sent to Anatolia, the issue was explained.
[01:30:12] However, the voters reacted to that process
[01:30:16] in the 2015 elections and caused the AK Party
[01:30:19] to lose its single-party rule. Now, there is also
[01:30:23] a concern whether the voters will react in a similar
[01:30:26] way to this new opening process. That's why the AK Party is
[01:30:30] taking very slow steps. But if the Dem Party imposes
[01:30:33] some conditions for the early election decision
[01:30:36] and makes it mandatory, then perhaps the AK Party
[01:30:40] and the MHP may choose to meet some of the
[01:30:44] Dem Party's expectations, right? Yes, Professor Doğan,
[01:30:47] what do you say? How do Nuray Hanım's
[01:30:51] predictions come across to you politically?
[01:30:54] Well, these are already happening right now,
[01:30:58] beyond predictions, of course, valuable assessments,
[01:31:01] but many of them are happening. I want to start from here.
[01:31:05] Now, there's this last emphasis, isn't there?
[01:31:08] He will be a candidate for the last time. The year
[01:31:11] is 2009. The year is 2009. So, how many years ago?
[01:31:15] 8 years ago, Professor, you wouldn't
[01:31:18] believe it. 17 years ago,
[01:31:22] there's something like this, he says, Mr. President,
[01:31:25] at that time, at the party level, there was
[01:31:29] a three-term rule, and he says, did he say 2009?
[01:31:36] 2009. The 2011 elections, he says, are my last candidacy
[01:31:40] in this context. But he also says a very beautiful
[01:31:44] thing: "I won't be stuck to my seat like some others."
[01:31:47] That was in 2009. After that, he really doesn't
[01:31:51] run for MP again because he will be elected president anyway.
[01:31:55] But there's a "last" emphasis there. I'll come back to why
[01:31:59] this "last" is important later. In 2012,
[01:32:02] at the AKP congress, he says, "I will be a general
[01:32:05] chairman candidate for the fourth and last time."
[01:32:09] He returns to the AKP general chairmanship after the presidential
[01:32:12] system with a party leader is adopted. But most importantly,
[01:32:16] the 2023 elections. In the 2023 elections,
[01:32:19] he very clearly, although he said it several times,
[01:32:23] in Samsun, Mr. President says, "With the strength
[01:32:26] we will gain from the support we asked
[01:32:30] from our nation for the last time in 2023,
[01:32:33] we will start the construction of the Turkish Century and hand
[01:32:37] over this blessed flag to our youth." So, in the
[01:32:39] previous election, we were told, "This is the last."
[01:32:42] So, this was the last. Therefore, it was clearly stated
[01:32:46] by the president himself that he would not be a candidate
[01:32:49] again. Before the 2024 local elections, Mr. President
[01:32:53] also spoke at Tügva's coordination meeting and said,
[01:32:57] "For me, this is a final." So, even going into the local
[01:33:00] elections, he said, "I was elected for the last time in
[01:33:03] 2023, and these 2024 local elections will be my
[01:33:07] last election, according to the authority given by the law."
[01:33:10] He asks for support in the local elections.
[01:33:14] Now, in this environment, with the economic situation,
[01:33:18] the emergence of another very serious presidential candidate, etc.,
[01:33:21] Mr. Erdoğan's, the government's, and
[01:33:24] its partners' most important concern is
[01:33:27] to consolidate their own neighborhood. Now, this
[01:33:31] "last" emphasis is for this. Meaning, those who
[01:33:34] were offended, alienated, those who supported for many
[01:33:38] years, as Mr. Tanur Kul also said, only Erdoğan can
[01:33:41] bestow these problems. But voters who might say, "this
[01:33:45] has become too much," and we are talking about
[01:33:48] a quarter of a century, the "last" emphasis
[01:33:51] is actually for this. Are they saying, "please,
[01:33:55] one more time," yes, this is the last, because
[01:33:59] even people who have been with him for years might
[01:34:02] say, "we walked together until now." Because the government
[01:34:05] no longer has the concern of convincing those outside
[01:34:09] their own neighborhood. The main thing is to hold onto
[01:34:13] what they have. That's why this started many
[01:34:17] years ago, this is not new, like the reopening of Hagia
[01:34:20] Sophia as a mosque. He is using his weapons
[01:34:23] slowly in the last process to somehow convince
[01:34:27] the conservative voters. That's why the "last"
[01:34:31] gerçekten sondu onlar açısından ama iktidar için Erdoğan bir
[01:34:34] mecburiyet yani kazanabilmek için devam edebilmek için ve kendilerine
[01:34:38] onunla özdeşleştiren kitlelerin iktidarda kalabilmeleri için
[01:34:41] de eee Cumhur Ittifakında olduğu gibi mesela Bahçeli çok. tehlikeli bir
[01:34:45] örnek vermiş, yani kendi amblemini örnek olarak koymuş, bugüne
[01:34:49] kadar iki hilali eee başardık, aldık üçüncü hilal yani
[01:34:53] seçilemezse MHP'nin üç hilali gitmiş mi oluyor yani bir hilal eksik mi
[01:34:56] kalmış oluyor, kadar riskli bir eee destek veriyor şimdi
[01:35:00] bu muhafazakar partiler şimdi öbekler var muhafazakar şunu
[01:35:03] söyleyeyim yani ta 2009'dan beri bu son
[01:35:06] vurgusunu yapıyor iktidar yapıyor iktidar yapıyor yapıyor evet en
[01:35:09] emphasis is important
[01:35:13] here. So, this "last" was
[01:35:18] told to us many times, and the last presidential
[01:35:21] election in 2023 was really the last for them,
[01:35:24] but for the government, Erdoğan is a necessity.
[01:35:28] So, Uçum says he will be a candidate
[01:35:31] for the last time. So, he should say,
[01:35:34] "this time he will really be a candidate for the last time."
[01:35:38] But he doesn't say that, does he? He doesn't say that.
[01:35:40] And there is an important process here now.
[01:35:44] Now, he needs
[01:35:49] to solve these economic problems somehow, and
[01:35:52] the government no longer has many instruments for this.
[01:35:56] This does not seem very possible, because we are in a state
[01:35:59] of high alert, and the election is actually very close.
[01:36:03] Even if it is held in the last week of 2028, if they say
[01:36:06] "we held early elections a week ago,"
[01:36:09] no one in mainstream politics will be able to say
[01:36:12] anything about this in a Turkey where diplomas are cancelled today.
[01:36:16] So, even then, there is little time left.
[01:36:20] So, they are making these calculations in a more
[01:36:23] constrained position. Therefore, they will
[01:36:26] enter a state of high alert. Now, we talked about conservatives,
[01:36:30] who are there? DEVA, Felicity, New Welfare. Now, some
[01:36:34] discussions are taking place there. I heard rumors
[01:36:37] and it was written several times in this context.
[01:36:40] For example, lowering the election threshold. Why is lowering
[01:36:44] the election threshold important? Let's say it's 4% or 5%.
[01:36:48] Now, there are parties that operate in that
[01:36:50] band, and if they think they cannot exceed that band, people will turn to
[01:36:54] new parties. For example, the Victory Party. Now,
[01:36:58] many people who would vote for the Victory Party will
[01:37:02] vote for a new party. The concern of "why should my
[01:37:05] vote go to waste" is very widespread among these voters,
[01:37:08] especially Erdoğan's opponents. But if this threshold is lowered, then an alliance
[01:37:12] motive among people who are below the threshold but close
[01:37:16] to passing it may become more realistic. For example,
[01:37:19] New Welfare, DEVA, Felicity, okay? But of course, this
[01:37:22] is about the parliamentary elections, the arithmetic of the
[01:37:26] presidential election is different. But their mobility
[01:37:29] may come to the agenda in some way. So, there
[01:37:33] is the nationalist Victory Party, the Good Party.
[01:37:36] The Good Party may not have a big threshold problem, but
[01:37:40] it could still be risky in some positions. Among
[01:37:43] conservatives, there are Felicity, DEVA, New Welfare. But there
[01:37:47] is an important dynamic of the presidential
[01:37:51] election. New Welfare experienced this. So, New Welfare,
[01:37:54] in the last presidential election, by supporting the People's
[01:37:58] Alliance in the second round and appearing on that platform,
[01:38:02] stopped its rise. Otherwise, it would be much higher today. That's why Mr. Erbakan
[01:38:06] is very clear. He makes statements
[01:38:09] against Erdoğan and his policies, and he criticizes
[01:38:12] every step they take.
[01:38:15] Why does he do this in such a way? Because the rise of
[01:38:18] the New Welfare Party has very clearly stopped,
[01:38:22] and the most important reason for this is that there is
[01:38:25] now a very serious anti-Erdoğan sentiment at the grassroots
[01:38:29] among conservative voters. Therefore, it will be a bit difficult
[01:38:33] for New Welfare to turn to that side,
[01:38:36] as Nuray Babacan said, because this will have
[01:38:40] a cost, and no one bathes in the same water twice.
[01:38:43] Now, a Sinan Oğan example there are such things in the scenario, that is,
[01:38:47] let's divide it in the first round so that we leave it for the second round, in the second round, now in 2023,
[01:38:50] they already did this in some way, that is,
[01:38:54] the nationalists went to Erdoğan's side in the second round. This was both a
[01:39:09] demoralization for the nationalist voters,
[01:39:12] for the nationalist voters who were against Erdoğan, it was a demoralization,
[01:39:15] and it gave Erdoğan a very serious boost and morale in the second round.
[01:39:19] That's why Nuray Babacan says this: In the second round, old
[01:39:23] friends, it's not easy. Old friends are a bit complicated.
[01:39:26] Their support is difficult for me, because I don't think the government
[01:39:29] can take serious steps in the process. There's no time left anyway, because
[01:39:33] if that serious step is not within the constitutional framework,
[01:39:37] the government cannot get meaningful support from them. Because they
[01:39:40] will only enter that situation with a constitutional guarantee that will be approved and voted on in the constitution.
[01:39:44] In the second round, bargaining with these parties will really be like
[01:39:47] washing oneself twice in the same water. In this sense, the government
[01:39:51] is in a tight spot in terms of the presidential election. That's why it is making these final remarks
[01:39:54] very seriously. Okay, so you
[01:39:58] are sharing with us the analysis of whether this will work or not,
[01:40:02] not just the backstage news of Nuray Babacan. I'm saying these things are happening.
[01:40:05] I forgot one last point there, let me tell you. Most importantly,
[01:40:09] here, the new party immunities.
[01:40:12] The real event with the new lawsuits is the last point, because
[01:40:16] look, what Murat said, I was going to connect it there, I'm sorry, I forgot it while I was talking.
[01:40:19] What did Murat say? He said they don't have very serious
[01:40:23] instruments in the economy, but they do have this instrument,
[01:40:25] maybe he agrees, IBB. Look, what happened today?
[01:40:29] Ekrem Eray resigned from the CHP group
[01:40:32] in IBB and said that he was tired of these conflicts, etc.
[01:40:36] In fact, he was already the former provincial chairman of the Democratic Party, not a CHP member.
[01:40:40] I think this is also one of the government's biggest operations as we head towards the election.
[01:40:43] You are talking about the rhetoric of a similar operation, right, Doğan Hodja,
[01:40:47] especially now that it's come to light with Üsküdar, they are coming to IBB,
[01:40:50] they are coming to the IBB council. Nuray Babacan says
[01:40:54] we are everywhere in Turkey. Despite all these pressures,
[01:41:00] we are showing great resistance. We are fighting under the leadership
[01:41:03] of our general chairman. We are offering a vision to Turkey.
[01:41:07] We are ultimately sure that when this ballot box is put forward,
[01:41:10] we will ensure the security of the ballot box. We see that too, and in the end,
[01:41:13] this government will definitely change at the ballot box.
[01:41:16] That is, whether Erdoğan will be a candidate or not, whether he will form an alliance with this one or that one.
[01:41:20] In the end, our citizens will vote with their consciences
[01:41:23] for the future of Turkey. And this vote will be
[01:41:27] in favor of the change of this government after 25 years.
[01:41:30] This is the situation I see. I mean, it's not because of some abundance.
[01:41:34] If they didn't have these fears, as Ismail just explained,
[01:41:38] they wouldn't have committed this cruelty in these IBB cases.
[01:41:41] That is, they wouldn't have committed such obvious cruelty.
[01:41:44] I am saying this as someone who has followed all judicial processes
[01:41:47] from the beginning of the Constitutional Court until now.
[01:41:51] They are afraid, really afraid.
[01:41:54] And with that fear, they are trying to do all sorts of illegal things.
[01:41:57] Just yesterday or the day before, the accounts of our closest friends were closed.
[01:42:01] Ali İsmail Korkmaz. Look,
[01:42:04] access to his accounts was blocked. Access to the accounts of peace academicians
[01:42:08] was blocked. Access to many accounts,
[01:42:10] our friends, accounts of our journalist friends,
[01:42:14] access to Evrensel newspaper was blocked. at a certain time,
[01:42:18] and even a couple of times they finished at 1 or 1:30 at night. And now, the lawyers are rightfully saying
[01:42:21] that holding these hearings until this late
[01:42:25] is a violation of human rights,
[01:42:29] it's torture, both for the defendants and for the lawyers.
[01:42:32] They repeatedly voiced their objections, and they are still voicing them.
[01:42:36] The chairman and management of the Istanbul Bar Association came to the courtroom two days ago
[01:42:39] in the evening and spoke about this, saying
[01:42:42] that this situation violates both their professional rights and human rights.
[01:42:46] And they were very right. And it's not just that. For example, there are also demands
[01:42:50] that only the names of those whose statements will be taken on that day be read,
[01:42:53] and no one else's statement be taken. Because why? The lawyers there
[01:42:57] sometimes wait to ask a question and conduct a cross-examination.
[01:43:00] But it's not clear when it will be their turn. People wait there for 12 hours, and at night,
[01:43:04] that is, when the hearing starts in the morning, the names of those whose statements will be taken
[01:43:08] today should be announced from the very beginning. The board sometimes does this,
[01:43:12] sometimes it doesn't. It has done it twice so far.
[01:43:15] That is, it does it when it feels like it. Therefore,
[01:43:18] there is such a problem. I hope it will be overcome.
[01:43:21] But as far as I understand, they also want to finish the hearing as soon as possible,
[01:43:25] to rule on this case as soon as possible, with incredible speed.
[01:43:29] But of course, this is not appropriate for the profession,
[01:43:31] for law, or for human rights. This issue needs to be resolved somehow.
[01:43:34] Our expectation is very clear: The hearings should start at 10 AM.
[01:43:37] When we go to Çağlayan or Kartal, the hearings start at 9 or 9:30 AM.
[01:43:40] They can also start at 10 AM there, and end at 6 or 6:30 PM.
[01:43:43] This is a very normal situation. How much is it from how much now?
[01:43:47] We don't see it starting before 11 or 11:30 AM, especially for the last 2 or 3 weeks.
[01:43:50] From the beginning, it started at 10 AM, then it came to 10:30, 11, 11:30.
[01:43:53] Now it doesn't start before 11:30. And in the evenings, it ends around
[01:43:57] 11 or 12 o'clock, sometimes even later.
[01:44:00] Therefore, urgent measures need to be taken in this regard. For now, like this.
[01:44:04] And you will comment on my main question, but before that, I would ask you,
[01:44:07] you are here, but we will say goodbye to Sezgin Bey before the commercial break.
[01:44:11] He will convey his comment. Then you will share your comment
[01:44:15] with us in terms of the IBB process. Sezgin Bey, what do you say?
[01:44:18] Nuray Babacan says, yes, the government has new game plans,
[01:44:22] and these are the ones that the new party will get from these plans.
[01:44:25] What do you say, sir? Of course,
[01:44:28] we are not expecting that the Justice and Development Party
[01:44:31] will suddenly become democratic, that there will be democratization,
[01:44:35] that judicial practices will improve, and that we will go to an election
[01:44:39] in such a framework. This is contrary to the nature of things.
[01:44:43] The system they established is a system that can only progress with pressure.
[01:44:46] That's why we live in such an unfair environment in every field.
[01:44:49] They will raise this even more, because how many cases do you have against you, Sezgin Bey?
[01:44:52] Well, I guess there are about 20 now. I guess it should be close to 20.
[01:44:56] And they also know that their system only works with pressure
[01:44:59] and in an unfair environment. That's why they use all the tools
[01:45:02] they have, and at the top of these comes the judiciary.
[01:45:05] They have used the judiciary against the opposition in every matter so far,
[01:45:08] and they will continue to use it. Will we back down because of these? No.
[01:45:12] I mean, in the last 3-4 months, I have been an election observer in two countries.
[01:45:15] One was Hungary, and the other was Kazakhstan.
[01:45:19] I saw there, we have the opportunity to compare
[01:45:23] with world examples. That is, we also have the opportunity to compare
[01:45:26] this regime with world examples. I believe,
[01:45:30] I mean, I sincerely believe, I see the field constantly.
[01:45:33] It's not like what journalists and commentators do. People are not like that.
[01:45:37] They will cooperate with the party, Kurds will go to the polls,
[01:45:41] they will vote for Erdoğan, or the party voters,
[01:45:43] there is no such world. There is none.
[01:45:46] That is, it is impossible for Erdoğan to convince the Turkish voters, whom he has oppressed so much
[01:45:49] in this environment. This is not something that will happen
[01:45:52] in a year or so. That is, the conservative voters.
[01:45:56] So much corruption, so much illegality,
[01:45:59] so much, I mean,
[01:46:03] they see the situation much more than us, because
[01:46:06] they came from the same neighborhood, they lived in the same neighborhood.
[01:46:09] So, what can the new party do
[01:46:12] so that Erdoğan cannot realize these plans,
[01:46:16] that is, so that he cannot involve the conservatives or the party members
[01:46:19] in this way? That is, what can be done?
[01:46:22] That's why, look, that's why the time has come for the new party.
[01:46:25] We founded the new party and we are progressing rapidly. Really, sir,
[01:46:29] I need to go to commercial. We don't have such funds.
[01:46:33] Our only source of income is these humble commercials of this television.
[01:46:36] So, please complete it, Mr. Sezgin, okay?
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[02:00:08] They think that an autocratic form of government, the concentration of power in one hand,
[02:00:12] the decision-maker being one person, the absence of a balance mechanism,
[02:00:15] is more correct for them. That's why they want it to continue like this.
[02:00:18] Also, there are powers in Turkey that have grown strong from this regime,
[02:00:22] in bureaucracy, in the judiciary, in the economy.
[02:00:25] There are powers that have emerged with these. And they are clinging to this order with all their might.
[02:00:28] With all their might. I really have a lot to say.
[02:00:31] For example, if they didn't trust this system,
[02:00:35] would a electricity distribution company close to the government, called Dedaş,
[02:00:37] commit this cruelty to our citizens in 6 provinces? I mean, who wants this order to continue?
[02:00:41] These people want it, because their order will be disrupted.
[02:00:44] Well, thank you very much. I wish you good broadcasts.
[02:00:47] Again, greetings and love, Sezgin Tanrı, thank you.
[02:00:51] Ismail Emretelci, we were going to say goodbye to Sezgin,
[02:00:54] so you had to leave it half-finished. This is what Nuray Babacan said,
[02:00:57] they will do these things. And regarding the new party,
[02:01:01] there will be even more pressure, even more moves, like operations against municipalities.
[02:01:05] Doğan Hodja said that this is already being done now,
[02:01:08] but is something worse being planned? What's going on?
[02:01:11] Well, a little while ago, Murat Hodja said
[02:01:15] that option A is to fix the economy,
[02:01:17] and option B is to neutralize the opposition. Actually, option B is their option.
[02:01:21] First, let's neutralize the opposition, that's my opinion.
[02:01:25] Then, if there's time, we'll look at the economy.
[02:01:29] Because the reason for this is, I think the government knows very well
[02:01:32] that no matter what they do, they have no chance of fixing the economy.
[02:01:36] The retiree, that is, the pension given to the retiree
[02:01:39] has no chance of being more than a social aid. For example, 30,000 liras.
[02:01:42] For example, my father gets 30,000. My father was a civil servant
[02:01:46] who served the state for 27 years. He is a retired civil servant.
[02:01:50] What will they do with 30,000? They will make it 40,000.
[02:01:54] What will happen if they make it 40,000? How will this man live with 40,000?
[02:01:57] Do they think the retirees can live
[02:02:01] without receiving help from their families? No, they know very well
[02:02:04] that they cannot live. Therefore,
[02:02:07] they have no chance of fixing the economy. They have no chance of lowering inflation.
[02:02:11] I mean, it might go below 30% to some extent, right, sir? But that's also doubtful now.
[02:02:14] It's over. There's no such thing. For example,
[02:02:18] we talked about this fund and so on a little while ago, and we will talk about it again,
[02:02:21] but I will go very generally. There is no free market in Turkey.
[02:02:25] People have no opportunities to invest. There is a floating exchange rate regime in name,
[02:02:28] but since there is no free market, there is actually a fixed exchange rate system
[02:02:31] as a result of state banks selling from behind. Therefore,
[02:02:34] those who want to escape from this sometimes enter the stock market.
[02:02:38] We experienced this 2-3 years ago. In fact, a certain stock attracted a lot of attention.
[02:02:41] The owner of the stock came out and said, "My stock is not that valuable."
[02:02:45] They attacked him. Now, after some time passes,
[02:02:48] in my opinion, there is an organized crime incident.
[02:02:52] We experienced fund incidents. How do we know? The Minister of Finance
[02:02:56] came out and said that no measures were taken for a year. Those who caused these measures not to be taken,
[02:02:59] its counterpart, etc., etc. Therefore,
[02:03:03] now the main target is, since the economy is already bad
[02:03:06] and has become inextricable,
[02:03:10] But the critical point is this: There are two aspects here.
[02:03:13] They acted similarly
[02:03:15] in the local elections. That is, they tried to isolate
[02:03:19] the Republican People's Party at that time,
[02:03:22] and by isolating it, they tried to attract
[02:03:26] their allies to their side and make them act against the CHP
[02:03:29] so that they would not succeed. What happened? The citizens reacted very strongly.
[02:03:33] In fact, we said this here at that time, that the citizens at that time elected
[02:03:36] Ekrem İmamoğlu, the mayoral candidate of Istanbul,
[02:03:39] and Mansur Yavaş, the mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality,
[02:03:43] with a much larger vote. And even that was not enough.
[02:03:46] Under the chairmanship of Özgür Özel, they elected.
[02:03:50] razılar, daha hesaplarına geliyor
[02:03:52] eee,
[02:03:54] yani ortadoğudaki düzen, dünyadaki düzen, ABD'deki
[02:03:58] yönetim biçimi falan Türkiye'de demokratik bir düzeni
[02:04:01] değil, bir parlamenter rejimi değil, hukuka uygun bir düzeni
[02:04:05] değil, eee böyle bir düzenin kendileri için daha elverişli
[02:04:09] olduğunu düşünüyorlar, otokratik bir yönetim biçiminin
[02:04:12] eee gücün tek elde toplanmasının, kararvericinin tek
[02:04:15] kişi olmasının denge... mekanizmasının olmamasının
[02:04:19] kendileri bakımından daha doğru olduğunu düşünüyorlar, o yüzden de
[02:04:22] böyle yani eee devam etmesini istiyorlar. bir
[02:04:26] de bu rejimden palazlanmış güçler var
[02:04:29] Türkiye'de bürokraside, yargıda
[02:04:32] ekonomide palazlanmış, bunlarla ortaya çıkmış
[02:04:35] güçler var, onlar da dört elle sarılmışlar bu düzene,
[02:04:39] dört elle, hani benim söyleyeceğim gerçekten çok
[02:04:43] söz var, mesela yani bu
[02:04:46] düzene güvenmese. dedaş denilen yani
[02:04:49] böyle iktidara yakın olan bir elektrik dağıtım şirketi
[02:04:53] 6 ilde yurttaşlarımıza bu zulmü yapabilir mi
[02:04:56] yani onların düzeni bozulacak kim istiyor bu düzen?
[02:05:00] devamını işte bunlar istiyorlar, düzenleri bozulacak
[02:05:15] beda edecektik, o yüzden yarım eee kesp bırakmak
[02:05:19] durumunda kalmıştınız, bu Nuray Babacan'ın söylediği
[02:05:23] işte bunları bunları yapacaklar, ha yeni parti ile ilgili
[02:05:26] de ayrıca daha da baskı, daha da fazla hamle işte. belediyelere
[02:05:30] yönelik operasyonlar. Doğan hocam dedi ki, aslında zaten
[02:05:34] hani bu yapılıyor şu anda ama daha mı acaba
[02:05:37] beteri planlanıyor, ne oluyor, ne bitiyor? Şöyle
[02:05:40] eee, az önce Murat hocam dedi
[02:05:44] ki, hani A seçeneği ekonomiyi düzeltmek, b
[02:05:47] seçeneği de eee muhalefeti hani
[02:05:51] etkisizleştirmek, aslında b seçeneği onların seçeneği.
[02:05:54] Önce muhalefeti etkisi etkisizleştirelim, benim
[02:05:57] düşüncem bu şey, sonra. ekonomiye zaman
[02:06:01] kalırsa bakarız, çünkü bunun nedeni şu, bence iktidar şunu
[02:06:04] gayet iyi biliyor, ne
[02:06:07] yaparsa yapsınlar, ekonomiyi düzeltme ihtimalleri
[02:06:10] yok, emekliyi yani
[02:06:13] emekliye verilen aylığın bir sosyal yardımdan öteye geçme ihtimali
[02:06:17] yok mesela yani 30.00 lira mesela benim babam 30.000 alıyor, benim
[02:06:21] babam 27 sene devlete hizmet etmiş memurdu, memur
[02:06:23] emekçisi 30.000 ne yapacaklar yani 40.000 yapacaklar yap
[02:06:27] 40.000 ne yap ne olacak yani 40.000 nasıl geçinecek bu
[02:06:30] adam yani emekliler
[02:06:34] ailelerinden yardım almadıkça yani
[02:06:37] geçinebiliyorlar mı zannediyorlar iktidarlar hayır yani geçinemediklerini çok iyi
[02:06:41] biliyorlar dolayısıyla bir ekonomiyi düzeltme ihtimalleri
[02:06:45] yok enflasyonu indirme
[02:06:47] ihtimalleri yok yani %30'un altına belki bir nebze inebilir
[02:06:51] değil mi hocam yani şey ama da şüpheli artık yani o da geçmiş olsun
[02:06:55] yok böyle bir şey yani eee mesela az önce
[02:06:59] konuştuk işte bu fon vesaire yine de konuşacağız ama çok genel
[02:07:02] gireceğim, Türkiye'de bir serbest piyasa yok,
[02:07:06] insanların yatırım yapma imkanları yok, dalgalı kur
[02:07:10] rejimi sözde var ama serbest piyasa olmadığı için
[02:07:13] kabu bankaların arkadan satışları neticesinde aslında
[02:07:17] bir sabit kur sistemi var, eee dolayısıyla
[02:07:20] buradan kaçmak isteyenler zaman zaman işte borsaya giriyor, bundan
[02:07:24] 23 sene önce yaşadık, hatta belilli bir hisse çok yöneldi, hissenin sahibi
[02:07:28] olan kişi çıktı dedi ki ya... benim islam bu kadar değerli değil dedi adamı topa
[02:07:31] tuttular işte aradan belli bir süre geçiyor işte bana göre
[02:07:35] bir organize suç olayı var işte fon olaylarını yaşadık
[02:07:39] nereden biliyoruz işte maliye bakanı çıktı söyledi bir sene boyunca
[02:07:43] tedbir alınmadı bu tedbirin alınmamasına sebebiyet verenler bunun
[02:07:46] karşlayıcısı vesaire vesaire vesaire dolayısıyla
[02:07:49] şimdi ana hedef dolayısıyla ekonomi zaten berbat
[02:07:52] olduğu için ve içinden çıkılamayacak bir hale geldiği için
[02:07:56] ana hedef zaten muhalefeti dağıtmak ama kritik
[02:07:59] konu şu: "şimdi burada iki husus var, yerel
[02:08:02] seçimlerde de benzer bir şekilde davrandılar,
[02:08:06] yani o dönemki cumhuriyet halk
[02:08:08] partisini yalnız
[02:08:10] yalnızlaştıralım ve yalnızlaştırınca
[02:08:14] işte zamanındaki ittifaktakileri yanımıza
[02:08:16] çekelim, onların CHP'nin aleyhine davranmasını sağlayalım ve
[02:08:20] başarı kazanamasınlar, ne oldu vatandaş çok büyük bir tepki
[02:08:24] verdi, hatta o dönem bunu söylemiştik burada
[02:08:27] vatandaş o dönem işte İstanbul'. belediye başkanı adayı ekrem
[02:08:31] imamoğlu'nun, Ankara Büyükşehir belediye başkanı Mansur
[02:08:33] Evaş'ı çok daha büyük bir oyla seçerek,
[02:08:37] hatta da yetmez eee Özgür Özeyin genel başkanlığındaki
[02:08:41] voted for the party at very high levels, with 37-38% of the votes,
[02:08:44] they voted for the future of Turkey, we said.
[02:08:47] Therefore, I don't think
[02:08:51] this isolation operation
[02:08:54] For one more reason,
[02:08:57] if you notice, now.
[02:09:00] As Nuray Babacan said in her news, new path, remedy,
[02:09:03] happiness, etc., old friends, old friends, actually, do you know who
[02:09:07] these are? Don't get hung up on the names, and the
[02:09:10] members of that party shouldn't get hung up on them either, please. I request that beforehand.
[02:09:14] Independent of the names,
[02:09:16] there are people who want to continue in the parliament and there are parties. Look, the equivalent of this in the
[02:09:20] previous election was the six-party table.
[02:09:24] So, who was the six-party table with at that time? That is, who are those who
[02:09:28] want to enter with now? They want to be passed.
[02:09:31] Therefore, actually, we can make
[02:09:35] a logical inference like this: In the previous election, they were with
[02:09:39] the loser. Now, the parliament also wants
[02:09:42] those who will lose the next election to be with them
[02:09:45] to increase their support. The miscalculation in the
[02:09:48] last election emerged. We were also
[02:09:52] mistaken. I was also mistaken at that time
[02:09:54] because I was the election official in Istanbul for the party,
[02:09:58] so I... it worked. I was also mistaken, I must say that openly.
[02:10:02] But it means that others will be mistaken in the
[02:10:05] coming period. I don't think this business,
[02:10:09] this scenario, will go very far, because this also shows weakness in the eyes of the citizens.
[02:10:13] This is essentially it. That's what we couldn't see at that time.
[02:10:16] The citizen actually saw that
[02:10:19] weakness. Whereas, our chance of getting votes by going
[02:10:22] it alone, that is, without needing
[02:10:25] any alliance, by entering the election, was
[02:10:29] much higher. We couldn't see this at that time. Let's speak openly about this.
[02:10:33] We were deceived, etc., etc.
[02:10:36] That is, also at this time, this is very important.
[02:10:39] The party talk is very
[02:10:43] common. Now, I think Erdoğan's
[02:10:46] calculations and what he actually expects
[02:10:49] is that, that is, even if the party
[02:10:52] has provided its support, what will the Kurds do?
[02:10:56] What will the voters do, let's say they got the party's support?
[02:10:59] What will you do with the voters? I think
[02:11:03] this is essentially the issue on the table,
[02:11:07] and I think Erdoğan is waiting for this, and let's not forget,
[02:11:11] Öcalan previously. "made a statement for the
[02:11:14] municipal elections, but the voters, the Kurdish
[02:11:17] voters, made their choice against his, now in this period,
[02:11:21] they listened to Demirtaş's call, not Öcalan's. Yes, now in this
[02:11:25] period, in this period,
[02:11:28] there are voices being tried to be suppressed from all sides regarding the Kurdish movement.
[02:11:31] That is, no, brother, Öcalan
[02:11:34] will speak, no one else will speak,"
[02:11:38] we see such an instigation and.
[02:11:42] "This is being tried to be dominated in the state
[02:11:46] and society, that is, everyone's consent is being tried to be obtained, but
[02:11:50] Erdoğan, in my opinion, will
[02:11:53] take this distance accordingly because he cannot
[02:11:57] predict what the voters will do. That is, as
[02:12:00] I said earlier, referendum or something, their decisions will be made
[02:12:04] after such processes, and
[02:12:07] this decision will be made after being sure of some processes. He, right now,
[02:12:10] nobody from the Kurdish movement." "As far as we can see, nobody
[02:12:14] speaks against Öcalan anyway, that is, nobody
[02:12:17] says anything. Demirtaş, I mean, what else can
[02:12:20] the man do in the meantime, we need to say that too, I think he is being treated unfairly, what else
[02:12:24] can he do, of course. That is, he said he wouldn't
[02:12:28] make political statements, he said he supports the process, etc., etc.
[02:12:31] but they cannot solve the meaning
[02:12:34] of the silence of the voters, especially the Kurdish voters,
[02:12:37] and as far as I can see,
[02:12:41] without taking a guarantee..." they are not taking a path, and
[02:12:44] I think the most important factor
[02:12:46] that will affect the timing and outcome of the upcoming elections is this. Yes, dear
[02:12:50] viewers, let me remind you of this as a factual point, everyone is
[02:12:54] free to comment, that is, when we host a party
[02:12:57] deputy or a group chairman periodically,
[02:13:00] especially when there is very little
[02:13:04] bir süre kala, şöyle bir iki hafta ya da bir ay ya da bir iki ay
[02:13:08] any plan of the government that aims for Erdoğan's re-candidacy
[02:13:11] and is brought forward by a week or two or a month or two,
[02:13:15] they make statements that they will not support such a thing.
[02:13:18] Let me state these, but of course, politics
[02:13:21] is this, you never know what
[02:13:24] will happen. What I'm saying is the government's perspective,
[02:13:28] otherwise, I cannot say that it binds the party, it's not my place,
[02:13:31] no, I'm not saying it for you, don't misunderstand me, I'm just
[02:13:35] reminding this in general, because the party members also
[02:13:38] naturally, once in a while, we are talked about in environments where we are not present.
[02:13:42] We are a television channel that can invite party deputies to our broadcasts
[02:13:46] at certain intervals. Therefore,
[02:13:49] I want to express their views they conveyed in our invitations
[02:13:52] here, so that it contributes to forming your opinion.
[02:13:56] Can I make one more factual point there?
[02:13:59] That is, they also have legitimate criticisms here.
[02:14:02] Up until now, many politicians
[02:14:06] who accused us of supporting the AKP are now
[02:14:09] with the AKP. They say, 'We
[02:14:12] are still where we were.' Let me also say this
[02:14:15] by the way, this is also the case in the IBB assembly,
[02:14:19] let me specifically say that, that is, contrary
[02:14:22] to what is thought in the IBB assembly,
[02:14:26] I think the most consistent group
[02:14:29] is the party group, it's very important, let me tell you, but
[02:14:32] this has been discussed in recent weeks, hasn't it? From Üsküdar onwards,
[02:14:36] can a situation be created in the IBB assembly where
[02:14:39] the party assembly members there are also persuaded in another way,
[02:14:42] and the IBB can be taken over? It is being discussed. You say
[02:14:46] that the situation is not like that, that is, we already see that, so far,
[02:14:50] so far, under the name of urban rent,
[02:14:54] that is, what everyone says, because even saying this can be a crime, that's why I said it in inverted
[02:14:58] commas, selected people, they went, they are going, they
[02:15:01] will go, etc. I have seen others leave, but I have not seen any of them
[02:15:05] leave. That's why I said it in my previous segment when talking about the parliament's arithmetic,
[02:15:09] that is, instead of the party, we should look at the number of CHP.
[02:15:25] We saw positions already, they are saying, I was offered a vice presidency, I went.
[02:15:28] We saw them being transferred like that, but I
[02:15:32] haven't seen any other stance
[02:15:35] from these friends in the assembly, I want to say that specifically.
[02:15:39] Okay, now in the last segment we turned to Figen Çalıkuşu,
[02:15:43] but we are also curious about Figen Hanım's thoughts
[02:15:46] on the topic we discussed. Figen Hanım, what
[02:15:49] do you say about Nuray Babacan's article, based on the
[02:15:52] backstage information she conveyed? The information she
[02:15:55] announced to the public there, that is, regarding what the AKP will do in the
[02:15:59] coming period. Because you said in your previous comment
[02:16:02] that if
[02:16:05] the parliament convenes tomorrow, next month, and a majority
[02:16:08] is secured as the AKP wishes, and that early
[02:16:11] election date is set now, and the decision is made now and the date is announced,
[02:16:14] this time, what Turkey will experience until that date
[02:16:18] is important, you said. Nuray Babacan's article also contains
[02:16:21] some clues about this. Do you also agree?
[02:16:29] Or rather, how can the opposition, the new party,
[02:16:33] reverse that process? Yes, Mr. Gökmen, we
[02:16:36] already see this in the municipal councils.
[02:16:39] Beyond that, we also see
[02:16:42] transfers of deputies. They are doing
[02:16:45] what they said, that is, whether an election decision is made
[02:16:48] or not, they are doing it as a preparation.
[02:16:51] As a result, I doubt this will change.
[02:16:54] Even if an election decision is not made in this process,
[02:16:58] we will see these transitions,
[02:17:01] we will see these bargains. Unfortunately, here,
[02:17:05] that is, even the AKP voters need to think.
[02:17:08] The fact that politics disregards the voters
[02:17:12] and ignores the voters' votes is very dangerous. That is, here
[02:17:15] there is a ballot box, but it is an insufficient ballot box.
[02:17:19] In that case, we need to accept that
[02:17:22] electoral democracy has been abandoned. That is, elections no longer
[02:17:25] have any meaning. If an early election decision is made,
[02:17:29] even if it is not made, we will see
[02:17:31] these in the period leading up to the election, we will see
[02:17:34] these bargains. This is unfortunately a very unpleasant situation,
[02:17:38] that is, it is very problematic both in terms of the voters
[02:17:41] and in terms of the erosion of democracy, because
[02:17:44] what we expect from democracy is not just the
[02:17:48] ballot box, but democracy has lost significant
[02:17:52] ground and has eroded
[02:17:55] in terms of the point the system has reached with its institutions and the functioning of the regime.
[02:17:58] We see that this is becoming even more intensified.
[02:18:01] Of course, the other question you asked is important:
[02:18:05] What can be done, what can be done to reverse this? At
[02:18:09] this point, a lot of work falls
[02:18:12] on the opposition. Let me also say this, that is, we always talk about 50 + 1.
[02:18:16] It was said today that the election
[02:18:19] will be in 2028 by the advisor and so on, but
[02:18:22] none of these are certain.
[02:18:25] You might see a constitutional package come before the election,
[02:18:29] certain bargains might necessitate this.
[02:18:33] Here, a draft constitution that no one can
[02:18:37] say no to might come. We shouldn't overlook
[02:18:40] that either, because this work has been going on for a long time, as you know,
[02:18:44] and in fact, the AKP is doing this work alone.
[02:18:48] That is, its other partner is not participating.
[02:18:51] It has formed a commission, and that
[02:18:54] commission, if I'm not mistaken... Under Yazıcı's presidency, that commission
[02:18:57] has almost completed it, because we see its monthly reports in the form of
[02:19:01] small news from time to time. This is also
[02:19:04] important, let's not forget this detail. If another form comes
[02:19:07] that moves away from 50 + 1, or if they bring
[02:19:11] a system that does not include separation of powers but is nominally
[02:19:14] a parliamentary regime, such a proposal might also come.
[02:19:18] We shouldn't ignore these either. I
[02:19:21] consider it a possibility, because there is a very serious deadlock.
[02:19:25] 50 + 1 will challenge very seriously.
[02:19:29] There are experiences gained from the six-party
[02:19:32] table. The partners and components of the six-party
[02:19:36] table, of course, in the sense you are talking about
[02:19:38] about this 5%, the position that the conservative
[02:19:42] wing will take is important, but it is certain
[02:19:45] that there is also a resentment in the six-party table in the later
[02:19:48] developing process. That is, the CHP and now, of course, the group that
[02:19:51] has left, how their stance towards the new party will be clarified,
[02:19:55] I don't know. If they make significant contributions to the constitutional amendment
[02:19:58] and see changes that will satisfy them,
[02:20:02] they might also act together. I want to include this.
[02:20:06] What have we seen in these elections so far? In general,
[02:20:09] despite the fact that people have very serious economic
[02:20:13] problems, which by the way have become
[02:20:16] increasingly aggravated, what was highlighted was
[02:20:20] identity and belonging politics, that is, differentiations
[02:20:24] based on cultural identities, religious and ethnic identities,
[02:20:27] existential problems, security problems, etc. Now we also see examples of these.
[02:20:31] The latest operation is also related to this.
[02:20:35] As was said earlier, in unrelated accounts,
[02:20:39] such measures were
[02:20:42] taken. For example, a journalist, Tuğba Tekerek, was arrested,
[02:20:46] wasn't she? Here, we saw the same
[02:20:49] attitude of consolidating a differentiation through identity politics
[02:20:52] again. So, there is a need
[02:20:55] for a discourse that will shake this, that is, a discourse
[02:20:58] that will shake identity politics and be inclusive.
[02:21:02] The opposition needs to do this collectively.
[02:21:05] Yes, the pressure is very high. "People might be hesitant
[02:21:09] to speak up in this sense, but politicians are more
[02:21:13] comfortable in this regard, at least they have immunity in this sense.
[02:21:16] In terms of the new party, yes, they will struggle,
[02:21:19] that is, these municipalities will probably also work
[02:21:23] on the IBB, and work will continue
[02:21:27] on other metropolitan municipalities they haven't taken.
[02:21:30] I don't think they will stop, and
[02:21:34] we might also see other parties that might change their position
[02:21:38] in connection with this constitutional amendment." It was said for the party, but
[02:21:41] I really don't know. If the election is to be postponed to 2028,
[02:21:45] there is a huge 2027 ahead of us, we shouldn't dismiss this.
[02:21:49] Of course, they will come with social aids,
[02:21:52] that is, to prevent the voters from changing their preference
[02:21:56] in times of economic hardship,
[02:21:59] they will take measures. At this point,
[02:22:02] the opposition needs to increase the voters' trust.
[02:22:05] Unfortunately, these
[02:22:09] lawsuits are a heavy, wearing process, but their internal
[02:22:12] conflicts are another problem. The fact that even
[02:22:16] the name of a new party has been discussed for a long time
[02:22:19] is really wearing. It might be considered important
[02:22:22] that it is mentioned a lot, but the fact that there is hesitation
[02:22:26] even in a party name creates problems, especially
[02:22:29] I would be concerned about it being left to the Constitutional
[02:22:33] Court. Personally, I would be concerned. When and how
[02:22:37] the Constitutional Court will make a decision, in which near
[02:22:40] future, whether it will create a problem or not, would be a big
[02:22:44] surprise. This needs to be overcome. That is,
[02:22:46] the opposition, I won't just talk
[02:22:49] about the new party, but the opposition bloc
[02:22:52] needs to take more careful
[02:22:56] measures against the political power's strategies.
[02:22:58] Also, these changes in preferences,
[02:23:02] that is, some of them were forced and under pressure,
[02:23:05] it happened because of that pressure. These are well-known,
[02:23:09] that is, we all accept the pressure, but there are also
[02:23:13] choices that we find to be very
[02:23:16] Here, the AKP wanted to show this,
[02:23:19] that is, ultimately, there is a great misconception here.
[02:23:22] Look, with this great misconception, one who is elected
[02:23:26] like our side has achieved this in such a problematic environment.
[02:23:30] They say they are incapacitating the opposition, right? Here,
[02:23:33] a strategy is being pursued on multiple fronts,
[02:23:36] that is, both operations and pressures to change preferences
[02:23:39] and so on. Against all these,
[02:23:43] very careful measures need to be taken. As I said,
[02:23:47] from now on, I suppose
[02:23:50] we will see more identity politics. This great operation is also a
[02:23:53] sign of this, like its spokesperson. There is a need
[02:23:57] for another discourse that will shake this.
[02:24:00] Now, there is a need to see an opposition that has set aside
[02:24:03] its internal problems and difficulties, but from now on, the conservative wing...
[02:24:06] "Can there be a discourse that will provide
[02:24:10] integration both in terms of the CHP and the new party?
[02:24:13] I mean, when I say conservative opinion, I want to remind you
[02:24:17] of the six-party table example. Problems were also created
[02:24:20] in that process. There is a process, a time, to compensate for all these,
[02:24:24] if it is 2028. But a constitutional
[02:24:27] amendment might come beforehand. Let's not dismiss this at all,
[02:24:30] because I don't think it will be done by saying it from the beginning.
[02:24:33] That is, the AKP's own secret agenda." An agenda
[02:24:37] that continues without even including its partner
[02:24:41] tells us that its probability is high.
[02:24:44] Okay, what is your opinion on this topic? Please share it briefly, and then
[02:24:47] I will turn to my other guests. That is, if
[02:24:51] such an early election is decided at an early date
[02:24:54] right now, if it passes this decision through parliament,
[02:24:57] after that, will the constitutional amendment agenda
[02:25:01] be removed from the government's agenda,
[02:25:05] or no, will its plans related to the constitutional
[02:25:09] amendment continue, but will it feel more comfortable
[02:25:12] there? Undoubtedly, it will feel more comfortable,
[02:25:15] but if a constitutional amendment is made, the election
[02:25:19] system after the constitutional amendment will also change. That is,
[02:25:23] I don't know what kind of regulation they will come up with. That's why
[02:25:26] today's speeches, these comments, undoubtedly Ms. Nuray's
[02:25:30] comments are valuable, and the information she received is also valuable, but
[02:25:33] we have seen that the political power, the AKP, has not
[02:25:36] always done what it said. We have seen that the stated
[02:25:40] and the actions are different. That's why they are at an important
[02:25:44] junction point. Perhaps
[02:25:47] gördüğüm bakın Devlet Bahçeli.
[02:25:50] what I see is that Devlet Bahçeli insisted on 1 for a very long time,
[02:25:53] for a very long time. But now we don't hear this from him, and
[02:25:57] we started hearing about the constitutional amendment from him recently,
[02:26:01] and yes, there are aspects of the regime that need to be corrected.
[02:26:04] Now, these are the things being discussed, but the most discussed
[02:26:07] are the early election debates. If they decide on the constitution,
[02:26:11] then a different calendar will be implemented after the constitution.
[02:26:14] Well, again,
[02:26:17] commenting after seeing the constitution would be healthier
[02:26:21] for the package to come. But let's not forget that
[02:26:24] the last framework law was 467, if I'm not mistaken,
[02:26:27] wasn't it, Mr. Gökmen? They got such a vote.
[02:26:30] And with the articles they will regulate in the constitution,
[02:26:34] with these changes in the regime, they might also get over 400 votes
[02:26:37] in a package that cannot be rejected, for example, if the budget changes,
[02:26:41] if the mother tongue and education, citizenship definition changes.
[02:26:45] And then they might even easily bring themselves to a referendum
[02:26:48] preference as a test. That's why I said
[02:26:52] earlier about all these things, that is,
[02:26:56] there is a need for a discourse that will reverse
[02:26:59] these strategies and that the opposition will be able to make the people's
[02:27:02] economic preferences a priority, that is, Lenin's saying,
[02:27:05] "Our greatest friend is inflation." There is a need
[02:27:09] for a different and inclusive, depolarizing, disruptive discourse
[02:27:12] on this. That is, it cannot fix the economy.
[02:27:16] I agree here. To fix it, they need to return to strict law.
[02:27:20] Structural reforms, Mehmet Şimşek, if I'm not mistaken,
[02:27:23] it's been over 3 years, and what was his first word, Mr. Gökmen?
[02:27:27] It was to return to rationality. What is our rationality
[02:27:30] right now? Is our rationality
[02:27:34] the collapse of this seven-portfolio company?
[02:27:37] Is our rationality the medium-term program that keeps falling back?
[02:27:41] So, the problem is there, it's big. Fixing the economy would be a very temporary
[02:27:44] bandage. They also see that it won't work.
[02:27:48] They might also be taking measures to fix this system, this regime,
[02:27:51] and from here, there might also be a demand
[02:27:54] to instill trust in the people, that is, yes, the system is changing, the regime is changing, a new
[02:27:58] constitutional package is coming. Okay,
[02:28:02] our viewers are also sending us messages like this. First of all,
[02:28:06] a viewer wrote about this execution. Kenan Birkan says, the sentence is the same,
[02:28:10] the crime is the same, the person is the same, the citizen of the legal order, the person is the same citizen of the legal order.
[02:28:14] So why is the execution different? This distinction that emerged
[02:28:17] in the July 31st Covid law "must have a reasonable
[02:28:21] and fair justification, our request is very clear, equality and
[02:28:24] justice," he says. Batı Tunç said,
[02:28:27] "More economy should be discussed."
[02:28:30] We are discussing a lot of economy in this program, Mr. Batı. That is, my
[02:28:33] professor is here, and my other guests are also interested
[02:28:37] in economy despite it not being their field, and they are conveying their comments
[02:28:40] to us. But of course, you are right. That is, diesel,
[02:28:43] stock market, poverty,
[02:28:46] then sold forests,
[02:28:50] lands, retired," "the hunger situation of minimum wage earners,
[02:28:53] unemployment, youth. Our viewer is bringing these up.
[02:28:56] One of our viewers said
[02:28:58] that he is also a little angry, but not really at us,
[02:29:02] but at the opposition. He says, "You say Erdoğan cannot be a candidate,
[02:29:06] but every evening you run him
[02:29:08] in surveys as a candidate."
[02:29:10] "You position Erdoğan as a candidate in surveys and discuss him."
[02:29:14] Yes, Professor Dumain, he seems to be a little angry at you too, but
[02:29:17] you are a political scientist. He's angry at YSK, I think."
[02:29:21] The citizen is angry at YSK, and we are also angry at YSK.
[02:29:24] That is, if he cannot be a candidate, then the surveys
[02:29:28] should ask who will win instead of Erdoğan, not
[02:29:32] who will win against Erdoğan. Either believe his rhetoric or
[02:29:35] his survey, both cannot happen at the same time. The opposition cannot create
[02:29:39] a politics without Erdoğan. Here, he is criticizing the opposition.
[02:29:42] We are acting on the assumption that the existing law is invalid
[02:29:46] in practice, because that's what's happening. The citizen's reaction is correct,
[02:29:50] but a program cannot be made
[02:29:54] by assuming that there is no such situation. You said that, it sounds
[02:29:57] a bit like a scolding for me, so no, it's not a
[02:30:01] necessity. Now, just a second,
[02:30:04] Ms. Figen, a citizen, if I don't read this message completely,
[02:30:08] he'll attack me. This opposition, he says,
[02:30:12] cannot create a politics without Erdoğan. For example, this might actually
[02:30:16] be a criticism that the opposition can take seriously,
[02:30:20] in the sense of creating a politics that leaves him behind. It constantly defines itself through
[02:30:24] him, and this invalidates its own argument with its own hands.
[02:30:27] As a result, there is a serious strategic inconsistency.
[02:30:30] He did a very good job. Yes, I read it from beginning
[02:30:33] to end. His name is Voyager Scribe. Then, Bahtisen Beyazyavuz also
[02:30:37] said something like this: "All comments disregard the people."
[02:30:41] Don't misunderstand, not your comments, I just conveyed
[02:30:44] Mehmet Huçum's words, and Şamil Tayyar's
[02:30:47] and Nuray Babacan's conveyed information.
[02:30:50] "Based on AKP backstage information, they will do this, they will trick
[02:30:54] old friends, etc., etc." These comments, he says, are "abstract
[02:30:57] words that disregard the people, that don't even touch on what reflexes
[02:31:01] they will show, and that have no chance of coming true,
[02:31:04] only in line with the wishes of the party elites. If you
[02:31:07] go among the people and look, you will see that they are waiting with their cards
[02:31:11] open," he says. They have opened their cards,
[02:31:14] they are waiting, according to our viewer. There is also a comment from
[02:31:18] a citizen there about the fund. He took a fund, he asked a question
[02:31:22] about it, did you see it? I didn't answer it.
[02:31:25] That is, he took a money market fund from Terra.
[02:31:28] He also wrote below, he is asking, "What about our fund?"
[02:31:32] I'll answer it when the time comes, but let his curiosity be satisfied, that is, danger.
[02:31:36] Is there such a thing as normal conditions? I'm going to tell you
[02:31:40] that there's a strange situation there. Under normal conditions, money
[02:31:43] market funds are the most liquid assets, and there shouldn't be any risk there.
[02:31:47] But here, there's
[02:31:50] a problem with the TP2 fund that the citizen mentioned, and there's also a
[02:31:54] legal process there. Normally, reverse repo transactions constitute about
[02:31:57] 65-75% of these.
[02:32:01] These are government securities. They are backed by government debt securities,
[02:32:04] and these are assets that can be easily
[02:32:08] converted into liquid cash. However, in this
[02:32:11] example, there's a situation where a corporate stock is used as collateral to provide
[02:32:14] financial support.
[02:32:18] This is actually contrary to the nature of that instrument.
[02:32:22] Therefore, an arrest operation has already taken place there.
[02:32:26] This process seems to be turning into a more legal process.
[02:32:29] There might be a loss there
[02:32:33] in proportion to its share, of course, but apart from that, it will be
[02:32:37] a more guaranteed
[02:32:40] fund compared to other stock funds, actually. Thank you very much, professor,
[02:32:43] because we attach great importance to the participation
[02:32:46] and questions of our citizens. We are broadcasting within such an interaction. Mrs. Pigen,
[02:32:49] were you going to add something in a sentence just now? I was going to say
[02:32:53] for this execution package, those who ask are right,
[02:32:57] of course. I mean, we already talk about it at other times,
[02:33:00] but as you know,
[02:33:05] I think it will be addressed in the process. That is, after
[02:33:09] this framework law, the execution package will also be
[02:33:12] looked at collectively. This is my expectation. Okay, okay.
[02:33:15] Fikret Abi, Şamil Tayyar says, "I have a suggestion." He says, "Let's
[02:33:19] announce the date of the early elections." He says, "Let's make this decision in the parliament
[02:33:23] now, let's make an early decision
[02:33:26] for early elections." So, the early election itself
[02:33:29] is not very early, only a month before the normal election, but he says, "Let's make this decision
[02:33:33] early." Yes.
[02:33:36] He says, in that case, stress will decrease,
[02:33:39] normalization will begin. That is, does he mean peace will come to the country? I don't know what he means,
[02:33:42] but will it, Fikret Abi?
[02:33:45] So, Şamil's approach there, as I stated earlier,
[02:33:48] is to guarantee President Erdoğan's re-candidacy.
[02:33:52] Currently, the atmosphere in the parliament
[02:33:55] is suitable. If a process with the party is carried out,
[02:33:59] and if the party's expectations
[02:34:01] are met, even if partially, support can be obtained.
[02:34:05] Independents can be given a guarantee of re-election.
[02:34:08] And if other parties,
[02:34:11] such as DEVA and Yeniden Refah parties, are approached and their re-entry
[02:34:15] into the parliament is guaranteed, then this support will be provided, and
[02:34:19] an early election decision that will ensure President Erdoğan's
[02:34:22] re-candidacy will be made now.
[02:34:26] There is a sense of urgency in this
[02:34:29] proposal because perhaps next
[02:34:33] year, when the early election decision is made, the
[02:34:36] stance of the parties in the parliament might change, the
[02:34:40] stance of the HDP might change, they might not be able
[02:34:43] to make an early election decision, they might not be able to find this majority.
[02:34:46] In that case, Mr. Erdoğan cannot run again. These
[02:34:49] are statements aimed at eliminating this risk. That is,
[02:34:53] Mr. President also said that we will overcome the early elections.
[02:34:56] He is actually reflecting a
[02:34:59] problem there in that statement."
[02:35:08] he states. While Mr. Bahçeli says that
[02:35:11] we have to make some regulations,
[02:35:14] the lowering of the election threshold may come
[02:35:18] to the agenda so that the MHP does not face a threshold problem,
[02:35:21] there is such an approach. However,
[02:35:25] the government accepting the constitutional amendments
[02:35:28] that the HDP wants and fulfilling
[02:35:31] them can gather a very big
[02:35:35] reaction from the voters. For example,
[02:35:38] changing the definition of citizenship, that is,
[02:35:41] removing the word "Turk" or, as the HDP wants,
[02:35:45] including Kurds as a founding
[02:35:48] nation in the constitution and accepting
[02:35:52] Kurdish as the official
[02:35:55] language of education, these are their expectations
[02:35:58] as part of Article 42. These are very big decisions. These
[02:36:02] would be changes that are incompatible with the
[02:36:05] qualities of the Republic of Turkey founded by Atatürk.
[02:36:08] A big reaction could really come from the voters,
[02:36:12] a very big reaction from the public. We need to sound
[02:36:15] out that side as well. What do the voters say, what does the public say, what does
[02:36:19] the majority say? Because I reminded you earlier,
[02:36:23] after the period of 2013-2015,
[02:36:25] in the 2015 elections,
[02:36:28] the voters removed the AK Party from being the sole
[02:36:31] ruling party. They could react like this
[02:36:34] again. Therefore, it becomes increasingly
[02:36:37] difficult for them to get the result they expect. What is your
[02:36:40] opinion on this? So, Şamil, or rather Şamil Tayyar, I apologize,
[02:36:44] says that if this decision is made now,
[02:36:48] normalization will occur, stress will decrease, and the country will be in peace
[02:36:52] until that date. Will it happen? Will it?
[02:36:54] So, the AK Party will relax, Mr. Erdoğan will relax, the MHP
[02:36:58] will relax, Bahçeli will relax. Such a relief will emerge,
[02:37:02] but regarding the new party, Professor Doğan says, "Everyone's
[02:37:05] peace is their own," Fikret Abi. Of course, that's what I'm saying too,
[02:37:09] that is, the government, the government's peace will come, but
[02:37:12] there will be no change in its attitude towards the opposition.
[02:37:16] Many operations are being carried out
[02:37:19] against the new party, including pressure to change its name.
[02:37:23] Journalists are being arrested, scientists
[02:37:26] are being arrested, municipal council
[02:37:30] members are being arrested, mayors are being arrested. All
[02:37:33] of these will continue, but the ruling
[02:37:37] side will be at ease, it will relax, because justice
[02:37:40] will be finalized. That is, the tension that Şamil mentioned
[02:37:43] will disappear only on the side of. This tension will disappear,
[02:37:47] but the government's pressure on the opposition,
[02:37:50] especially on the new party, will continue. We see this every
[02:37:54] day with a new initiative.
[02:37:57] Their pressure on municipalities, their attempts to gain a majority in municipal councils,
[02:38:01] to transfer municipal council members, or to win the election for deputy mayor
[02:38:05] by arresting them will continue. What could happen
[02:38:09] economically? I know
[02:38:12] this: "When elections approach, this government tends to
[02:38:16] give wage increases to public employees,
[02:38:19] civil servants, and pensioners, and it creates an expectation
[02:38:23] that these increases are being made in exchange for votes
[02:38:25] in the election. This also reflects
[02:38:29] in the ballot box, which is true. So,
[02:38:33] if this is to happen next year, a significant wage
[02:38:36] increase could be provided at the beginning of the year.
[02:38:39] However, unless the inflation problem
[02:38:43] is solved, we have already seen that those increases melt
[02:38:46] away within a month or two in previous years. The same thing
[02:38:50] would happen again," we can say, Gökmen. So,
[02:38:53] Professor Murat, Fikret Abi says, "Peace will come, but it will come
[02:38:57] to them." As he says in the movie, "Don't say that about our Sivas, our Sivas is growing,
[02:39:01] growing for you?" That is, peace is coming, but for
[02:39:04] us or for whom? I don't know how peace happens,
[02:39:07] but what do you say about these plans?
[02:39:10] We are also curious about whether the government will actually
[02:39:13] get what it wants in this regard. That is, if it gets this decision made
[02:39:17] early by the parliament and if
[02:39:20] the early election date is announced in April 2028,
[02:39:24] and if Erdoğan's re-candidacy is guaranteed,
[02:39:27] will things change in his subsequent steps,
[02:39:31] whether it's about the HDP, the process, or the economy?
[02:39:34] Will he feel more comfortable, or will something else happen? Is it
[02:39:38] possible to make such projections, in your opinion? So, there,
[02:39:42] of course, by reading the public, by reading public opinion,
[02:39:45] perhaps he might prefer not to take some steps
[02:39:48] he should take in that process if he sees a big reaction against him.
[02:39:52] But we should not forget that there is
[02:39:56] also a Kurdish vote he can win from his side.
[02:40:00] Therefore, he will also go to the polls, and he will make a cost-benefit analysis
[02:40:03] there. That move didn't help him much
[02:40:07] in the past. He will see if he can turn it in his favor. He is already
[02:40:10] gauging the market with polls, but as I said,
[02:40:14] unfortunately, my expectation there is not
[02:40:17] at all such
[02:40:20] an alarming expectation. Perhaps, we saw
[02:40:24] between the June-November elections how the elections
[02:40:27] suddenly turned around, unfortunately,
[02:40:30] by increasing pressure
[02:40:33] on society, by making the opposition
[02:40:36] unable to do its
[02:40:39] job, I think
[02:40:42] it will progress and try to secure
[02:40:45] the election. Because otherwise,
[02:40:47] it doesn't seem very possible to turn this around. It's not something
[02:40:50] that can be done by gaining ground with small moves here and there.
[02:40:54] As we just said, people don't vote with instructions
[02:40:57] from above, and they can vote very contrary to the instructions
[02:41:00] from above. That is, their party can be on the other side, and the voters can be on the other
[02:41:03] side. The most important party here
[02:41:07] is the anti-Erdoğan party or Erdoğan's supporters.
[02:41:10] That is, society is polarized in this way. No matter how much you try
[02:41:14] to divide
[02:41:21] it turns into a tiny party, and as we approach the elections,
[02:41:24] we can even see it disappear.
[02:41:27] In such an environment, the tactics of creating a CHP, creating
[02:41:31] new whatever, dividing them like this, don't work. For
[02:41:35] example, in Nuray Babacan's article, there was a
[02:41:38] problem: dividing the conservative bloc
[02:41:40] by supporting it doesn't work much, because
[02:41:44] they are not alternatives to each other. They vote for their own party,
[02:41:48] and on the other side, they vote for the presidential candidate, as in the past.
[02:41:52] To do this, for example, the name of the CHP is never mentioned. They have to support the CHP.
[02:41:55] Because the alternative to the CHP taking votes from the new party
[02:41:59] means the disappearance of the CHP. The CHP will come out
[02:42:03] with a completely anti-new party propaganda. They need to support
[02:42:07] the CHP even though its name is not mentioned. The main problem here
[02:42:11] is that none of these are as strong
[02:42:14] as the anti-Erdoğan sentiment.
[02:42:17] A move that will change this, a move that will break
[02:42:20] this, can only be achieved by increasing prosperity in the economy.
[02:42:22] That is, Turkey needs to open a new path. But this is not
[02:42:26] possible under current conditions. That's
[02:42:29] why I keep returning to the same point.
[02:42:33] New moves may come that will make it impossible
[02:42:36] or difficult for the opposition to do its job.
[02:42:39] Istanbul Municipality is one of them, a very important stage,
[02:42:43] by the way. But it can also drag on. That is,
[02:42:46] we can also see other names being removed from politics,
[02:42:49] being passive. For example, yes.
[02:42:53] Now, I will also take Professor Doğan's
[02:42:56] comment on this
[02:42:57] but
[02:43:00] let me move forward by asking this
[02:43:03] and take his comment in that way. If the government really
[02:43:07] makes such an early decision on early elections and puts it in its pocket,
[02:43:11] then will it be a favorable situation for large
[02:43:14] segments of the public, public opinion,
[02:43:18] I don't know, different
[02:43:21] segments, or will there be
[02:43:24] normalization, etc.? Or will the government
[02:43:27] continue to do what it knows
[02:43:30] in terms of repressive policies, operations,
[02:43:34] and not complying with the decisions of the Constitutional Court,
[02:43:37] not releasing those inside? What do you say, professor? Now, people
[02:43:40] are complaining, of course, they are also writing
[02:43:44] on social media and so on. What do they say? They react, they say,
[02:43:48] "Don't talk about that, talk about this, this is important, that is important."
[02:43:51] They are right, they are right, but they are wrong
[02:43:54] on this point, because will there be an early election or
[02:43:58] not? Now, this is actually not a very important issue.
[02:44:02] I am generally an optimistic person and I believe that there will be
[02:44:06] a significant transformation in Turkey in the near future. Because
[02:44:09] Erdoğan, the current regime, the AKP
[02:44:12] government, its current support, its social
[02:44:16] base, still has a significant social base.
[02:44:19] But the main reason for this is that it is a party
[02:44:22] state. That is, the system we live in
[02:44:26] is a party state. The elements of this
[02:44:29] party state, its civil servants,
[02:44:32] those who serve it, the people
[02:44:36] involved in its economic distribution system, constitute a significant
[02:44:39] portion of the population. This is not like in old Turkey.
[02:44:43] This government has tied a significant
[02:44:46] portion of the population to itself.
[02:44:49] Therefore, you cannot lower the AKP's social base,
[02:44:53] its vote depot, below a certain point. And even,
[02:44:56] for example, there are groups who feel compelled
[02:45:00] to continue with the AKP politically, primarily the elements
[02:45:03] of the People's Alliance, and besides them, when you consider those who participate
[02:45:07] in these operations with the AKP and so on,
[02:45:11] since they have to continue with the AKP, people ask, if there are so many
[02:45:15] crises, if there is so much reaction from the public,
[02:45:18] why can this AKP government still
[02:45:21] get so many votes, even if they have decreased? It's because
[02:45:25] those people are compelled to the government
[02:45:27] and even want it to continue. This is a very powerful lobby. Let's put that aside for now.
[02:45:31] Secondly, early elections or not, it has no
[02:45:34] importance for the election. Or the great
[02:45:38] importance of the election may not be in the next election. We need
[02:45:41] to admit that this regime is a rotten
[02:45:45] regime. There is a very serious social reaction to this regime.
[02:45:48] It cannot gain legitimacy, both in terms of international
[02:45:52] relations. Look, today, America approved 45 F35s to Saudi
[02:45:56] Arabia. We are a NATO country, but it cannot give us. It is struggling
[02:45:59] greatly. We will talk about it later. He will meet with Trump and so on. Why?
[02:46:03] There is a legitimacy problem because we are giving it to him. That is international diplomacy there. The country
[02:46:07] also has very serious problems, and the
[02:46:10] anti-Erdoğan side is much larger. But we need
[02:46:14] to say this clearly: I am hopeful for the future.
[02:46:17] Erdoğan no longer has a great following among the oppressed,
[02:46:20] among the working class, among the middle classes, among tradesmen.
[02:46:24] Therefore, the future will be against the pillars
[02:46:28] of this regime. Let me say that. But
[02:46:31] when it comes to the upcoming elections, early or
[02:46:35] not, we all see it in some way. We
[02:46:39] faced it in the Üsküdar municipal elections. That is, people,
[02:46:43] council members, people who will vote were detained,
[02:46:46] the municipality was isolated,
[02:46:50] surrounded, people were arrested. That is,
[02:46:53] transfers of people who would vote for him took place,
[02:46:56] or they were threatened with arrest
[02:46:59] in an environment. Now, what does this show us? It shows us this:
[02:47:02] the continuation of the operation against the new party, the CHP, and
[02:47:06] the new party. What is this? You had
[02:47:09] a very serious presidential candidate, his diploma was cancelled,
[02:47:13] he was arrested, he is currently inside. Now, look,
[02:47:16] we are going to elections in such an environment. What else happened? A completely
[02:47:20] different administration was brought to the main opposition party, it was interfered with,
[02:47:24] that party was actually closed down. We put that aside too.
[02:47:28] The diploma was cancelled. The opposition had a very serious local election success,
[02:47:31] they had councils, they had municipalities. What is
[02:47:35] happening now? Council presidents, mayors
[02:47:38] are being arrested. And so on, there is an operation.
[02:47:42] We say immunities can be lifted. Now, which election are we
[02:47:45] talking about? That is, because we are talking about
[02:47:48] an election held under these conditions, there is a new party
[02:47:52] standing in the middle in an election held in such
[02:47:55] an environment. But the new party is alone. Now, we are
[02:47:59] writing on social media here, we are talking here, but now, regarding the new
[02:48:02] party, Özgür Özel has risen as a leader
[02:48:05] outside the new party. What are all the other
[02:48:09] anti-Erdoğan parties or democratic mass organizations,
[02:48:13] opinion leaders, journalists doing,
[02:48:16] Gökmen Bey? They are
[02:48:18] doing
[02:48:21] only one thing: giving advice to Özgür Özel.
[02:48:24] Are they doing anything else? There are many
[02:48:27] really wants. Darling, democratic, legitimate.
[02:48:30] Are these channels being used? Are our citizens using
[02:48:34] them? Is our public using them? Are other democratic mass organizations
[02:48:37] using them? There is an organization called DISK, for example, isn't there? A workers'
[02:48:41] union, or organizations like that.
[02:48:44] That is, today, there is very serious pressure.
[02:48:48] An incredible operation has been carried out on the main opposition party.
[02:48:51] But from journalists, opinion leaders, intellectuals,
[02:48:54] democratic mass organizations, and other political
[02:48:57] parties, no one is doing anything
[02:49:00] other than telling Özgür Özel what to do. Therefore, one needs to understand
[02:49:04] Özgür Özel at some point. Therefore, there is criticism from the left,
[02:49:08] and criticism from the right, from nationalists. Because the anti-Erdoğan
[02:49:11] sentiment in this society is also a monolithic
[02:49:14] bloc. That is, there are nationalists,
[02:49:17] there are social democrats, there are socialists. But everyone
[02:49:21] says that until now, the CHP pursued a right-wing, conservative
[02:49:25] policy to persuade them. Those who criticize from the left say
[02:49:29] that it seems there was no support for it, let's oppose from the left.
[02:49:32] They say, "You are collaborating with the Kurds, you are acting with them."
[02:49:36] Nationalists are acting from there. But what is Özgür Özel trying to do?
[02:49:40] The anti-Erdoğan supporters who are doing nothing themselves,
[02:49:43] those who are doing nothing. Do we have immunity
[02:49:46] or something? No,
[02:49:50] but you are also a citizen. Now, Özgür Özel's
[02:49:53] difficulty is there. That is, he has to satisfy all these people
[02:49:57] who are doing nothing and giving him advice, as a politician, of course.
[02:50:01] But under what conditions? We will go to a commercial break. I'm finishing.
[02:50:04] Under what conditions does he have to satisfy
[02:50:08] them? He has to satisfy them while
[03:00:17] I was trying to say this, uh, against
[03:00:20] the main opposition party, from absolute Butland to diploma cancellation,
[03:00:24] up to, uh, operations in municipalities, a very serious operation
[03:00:27] is underway, uh, and this will of course be reflected in the elections, whether
[03:00:30] there is an early election or not. "In this environment,
[03:00:34] in such an environment, in an environment where such an operation is ongoing,
[03:00:38] elections will be held, but in the medium term, the opposition needs
[03:00:40] to stand firm, to pull itself together, not to be demoralized,
[03:00:44] it is important for the opposition to stand with a will to democratize
[03:00:47] the regime in Turkey in the medium term,
[03:00:50] not like 'I'm sulking', if this doesn't happen, that is, in this
[03:00:54] climate, in a place where there is a single-party rule, under these conditions,
[03:00:58] the main opposition party trying to stand on its feet and left alone,
[03:01:01] because currently." As I said before, from intellectuals
[03:01:05] to university professors, from democratic mass organizations to other opposition
[03:01:09] political parties, they are nowhere to be seen, therefore
[03:01:13] the new party is trying to do something, and the operation is
[03:01:16] being carried out against it, apart from that, the government of course has other games
[03:01:20] as you reflected, therefore we should not be too pessimistic,
[03:01:24] uh, in the medium term, there are very serious grounds to be hopeful,
[03:01:27] but this election is not a life-and-death election for
[03:01:31] Turkey, such a thing.
[03:01:45] how the next election will turn out will not determine
[03:02:02] right. Yes, cried.
[03:02:04] A statement came from the Presidential Candidate Office regarding this issue,
[03:02:07] friends, its visual is at 6, I would like
[03:02:10] you to give me visual number 6, please.
[03:02:14] What happened during the hearing of the IMM case?
[03:02:18] The message from the Presidential Candidate Office shares it as follows: Tears
[03:02:22] on the stand. Tears on the stand.
[03:02:25] For months, I've been saying the same thing about
[03:02:28] the IMM investigation. Spouses, children, were targeted
[03:02:31] and held hostage, I said that confession came with family torture.
[03:02:35] A live example of this happened yesterday on the stand in court. What he
[03:02:39] meant by yesterday happened the day before.
[03:02:42] It was thrown yesterday because of this. The ağa, who was subjected to the ugly
[03:02:46] accusations of a 30-year family friend.
[03:02:50] Our general manager Ali Sukas asked you this: Would you have given this statement if your
[03:02:53] son hadn't been arrested? The ağa, who was subjected to the ugly accusations
[03:02:57] of a 30-year family friend, general manager Ali Sukas asked
[03:03:01] you this: Would you have given this statement if your son hadn't been arrested?
[03:03:04] This question made the defendant on the stand cry. Tears
[03:03:07] flowed. The defendant on the stand, over 60 years old,
[03:03:11] while wiping his tears with his friend's
[03:03:13] question, could only say, "I don't want to answer this
[03:03:17] question." This question made the defendant
[03:03:20] on the stand cry, tears flowed, the defendant
[03:03:24] on the stand, over 60 years old, while wiping his tears with his friend's
[03:03:28] question, could only say, "I don't want to answer this
[03:03:31] question." These sighs will surely have a price, this
[03:03:34] injustice will surely have a consequence in a fair trial. Mr. İsmail,
[03:03:38] what exactly happened there, what was the incident? So now the incident
[03:03:41] is this, the person who gave this statement, Mengir,
[03:03:44] uh, his son.
[03:03:47] His son-in-law Dinçer Kantar is also arrested in this file from the beginning.
[03:03:50] The claim is that,
[03:03:53] uh, they have 500 million lira worth of receivables,
[03:03:57] and to get this, they are released by giving an effective
[03:04:01] repentance statement that they transferred their 50 million lira worth of real estate
[03:04:04] at low prices on paper. Now Ali Sukas, of course,
[03:04:08] asked this in court, "Did I ask you for any benefit?"
[03:04:11] He said no. That is, he
[03:04:14] asked again about the accuracy of these matters, "Absolutely, such things did not
[03:04:18] happen," he said, and finally he asked
[03:04:21] this question: "If your son had not been arrested, would
[03:04:24] you have given such a statement?" The man couldn't bear it, he cried
[03:04:28] on the stand and said, "I don't want to answer this question."
[03:04:31] Now,
[03:04:33] what the esteemed president
[03:04:35] wrote is actually this incident. Now these things are happening
[03:04:39] before our eyes. Look, these things are happening
[03:04:42] every day. What lies beneath his
[03:04:46] crying? What lies beneath his crying is this: he has a friend,
[03:04:50] Ali Bey, a very close family
[03:04:52] friend,
[03:04:54] and it's completely the outward manifestation of the injustice he did
[03:04:58] in the past, that is, because Ali Sukas's
[03:05:01] accusations against him are one of
[03:05:05] the biggest ones, and many people gave such
[03:05:08] statements against Ali Sukas in the Ağaç Ağşiya
[03:05:12] file, and almost all of them in their statements
[03:05:15] given in court. They
[03:05:18] retracted,
[03:05:20] and this was the last link in that chain, but for the first time, I witnessed
[03:05:23] someone crying on the stand with an emotional
[03:05:27] release, let me put it that way, "I don't want to answer
[03:05:31] this question," yes, "I don't want to answer," because the question is very clear:
[03:05:34] "If your son hadn't been arrested, would you have given such a statement?" No, look, this has
[03:05:38] happened many times, Murat Kapke, you know
[03:05:42] about this, Murat Kapke's place in the advertising
[03:05:45] file, in the Media advertising file.
[03:05:48] One of the most important and upon which the indictment was built,
[03:05:52] one of the effective repenters, Murat Kapke, clearly said, "When I was taken
[03:05:55] in, I was informed that my wife
[03:05:58] was also in custody, and I was forced to give such a statement."
[03:06:02] These are things that were openly expressed in court. Look, yesterday,
[03:06:06] Murat Ongun, when the last
[03:06:09] statements were finished, by the way, let me also say this, in the evening,
[03:06:11] uh, today it was around
[03:06:14] 7 o'clock, uh, yesterday it finished a little
[03:06:17] early, uh, so let's say these things so that
[03:06:21] tomorrow or the day after they don't say we didn't say it. Muraton took the floor
[03:06:24] specifically and used a sentence like this: "This evening," he
[03:06:28] said, "Mr. President, you bring everyone
[03:06:31] here,
[03:06:33] you ask these people, especially those who give effective repentance
[03:06:36] statements, first, 'Do you repeat your statements?'
[03:06:40] 'Yes, I repeat my statements.' 'Do you stand by your words?' 'I stand by
[03:06:44] them.' What happens 5 minutes later?
[03:06:48] Upon cross-examination, it is understood that
[03:06:52] almost all of these people, look, with one or two
[03:06:55] exceptions,
[03:06:58] uh, from what I understand
[03:07:00] from their statements,
[03:07:03] they think they will be arrested at any moment if they retract,
[03:07:07] that's why I think they are.
[03:07:10] 5 minutes later, upon cross-examination, 'No, I didn't actually see such a
[03:07:13] thing, I said what I heard, I told what I heard,' we
[03:07:17] witness them giving statements like this, 'Who will protect
[03:07:21] our rights, our law?' he asked very clearly, because the same thing happened
[03:07:25] yesterday, look, an effective repentant named Kabil Taşçı came out.
[03:07:29] "He had also given a statement in the same way, about
[03:07:32] bribery and so on, mixing with tenders,
[03:07:35] 'Am I involved in such a thing?' he said, 'Did you see such a thing?'
[03:07:39] 'No, I didn't see it,' he finally said, 'I have a close friend named Vedat,
[03:07:42] I heard it from Vedat,' he gave such a statement finally, look, all of these are
[03:07:46] in the records, we constantly come here, we
[03:07:49] explain these things, that this file is not like this,
[03:07:53] that there is no evidence in this file, that there is nothing
[03:07:56] except for effective repentance statements
[03:07:59] in this file." We are saying there is nothing, look, we are saying
[03:08:02] it many times, yesterday, for example, uh,
[03:08:06] again, uh, another friend came
[03:08:09] to the stand, one of the effective repenters had given a statement
[03:08:12] against him, he shouted and explained, "I went to a man in the tender
[03:08:16] entitlement unit, had the document signed and
[03:08:19] left," whereas the man in his effective repentance statement said,
[03:08:23] "They were arranging the tenders among themselves," the child rebelled,
[03:08:26] that is, "In my life, I only once,
[03:08:30] how did I sit down and tell my secrets to a person I saw
[03:08:34] only once, like this and that and so on?" It's always the same story, always the same
[03:08:38] things, so
[03:08:40] that emotional outburst is now the final point of the matter.
[03:08:44] What should normally happen is that you should take
[03:08:48] legal action against all those who give
[03:08:51] such statements at the end of the statement, but, uh-huh, that is, not to intimidate
[03:08:55] others, but you will take legal action, you will accuse them of abuse
[03:08:58] of rights, or you will say that there
[03:09:02] is no proper indictment here, and in this file, we
[03:09:05] first of all need to immediately end these
[03:09:08] arrests, you need to say this, but this is stubbornly
[03:09:12] not being said. Look, at the end of the last session,
[03:09:15] uh, during the monthly detention review, the prosecution,
[03:09:18] it's like a joke, requested the continuation of everyone's
[03:09:21] detention, look, everyone's. Two people were released, the prosecution even
[03:09:25] objected to that. So actually, the situation has reached
[03:09:29] this point: "There is no trial here, there is no
[03:09:32] judicial activity here, there is stubbornness here,
[03:09:36] there is stubbornness here, we have locked
[03:09:38] you up here, and we will not release you
[03:09:42] until we get a result from here," such a subtext
[03:09:45] is being given to people and to society, whereas
[03:09:48] this is an unacceptable
[03:09:51] situation in any way. Look, for example,
[03:09:55] I just explained that hearings go on until midnight here and so
[03:09:59] on and so on." We explain how much the effective repentance
[03:10:03] statements have been retracted, we explain,
[03:10:06] uh, even the simplest statements, look, that is,
[03:10:10] the situation, Mustafa Akın's situation, look, there are situations of those
[03:10:13] who have only one act of accusation, did something like this happen,
[03:10:17] İsmail Hüsnu Yüksel Tunar, yes, he says, "Do you know me?"
[03:10:21] Yes, a very funny incident, Dinçer Kantar says, "No,"
[03:10:24] his son-in-law Hüsnu Yükseltünar then says,
[03:10:28] "You said you delivered the money."
[03:10:30] He says, "Yes, this is the son-in-law of the crying person," for example,
[03:10:33] he gave such a statement. He asks,
[03:10:36] "Do you know me?" "No, I don't know you,"
[03:10:39] he says, "Don't you know me?" "I don't know you, who am I,
[03:10:43] I am the person you said you gave money to," he says. Now this,
[03:10:47] look, sometimes when we tell
[03:10:50] these things here, I think we are telling parables, odes,
[03:10:54] like legends, mythology, but these are real, these are happening.
[03:10:58] For example, I say in my police statement or my prosecutor's
[03:11:01] statement, etc., in a way that will enter the indictment, I say
[03:11:05] I gave money to İsmail Emre Telci. Yes.
[03:11:08] Then I meet İsmail Emre Telci in the courtroom. İsmail
[03:11:12] Emre Telci says to me, "Gökmen, do you know me?" I say, "I don't
[03:11:16] know you, İsmail." "Then," he says, "why did you give me
[03:11:19] money?" He says, "I am the person you claim to have given money to."
[03:11:22] But look, these scenes are happening almost every
[03:11:25] day. Look, they are happening every day. And
[03:11:29] what was the peak of this? It was Ertan Yıldız's statement.
[03:11:33] In Ertan Yıldız's statement, they cut off Fatih Keleş's lawyers'
[03:11:36] third question. Yes. They pulled him out of there.
[03:11:40] Look. This trial, if
[03:11:43] there is really a trial. Yes. There are certain things
[03:11:46] that need to be done for it to really happen. One,
[03:11:49] detentions must be ended immediately. Two,
[03:11:52] Ekrem İmamoğlu's defense must be taken. His day and
[03:11:56] time must be determined and a reasonable time must be given. Why?
[03:12:00] Not one day, two days, not too much, Ekrem Bey doesn't
[03:12:03] want 20 days, doesn't want 10 days, 4-5 days
[03:12:06] is enough, three, some
[03:12:09] interrogations were cut short, some interrogations
[03:12:12] were cut short, the cross-examinations of those
[03:12:16] we call effective perjurers, effective repenters, must be
[03:12:18] completed, they must be brought back, the question and answer
[03:12:22] part must be completed, even if it's just formally,
[03:12:26] these must be done, look, I don't see any trial
[03:12:30] in progress even if these are done, I understand, because
[03:12:33] why? I'll say my last point, when that interrogation
[03:12:36] was cut short, what did the president say? "You will make
[03:12:39] it a ground for appeal." Look, we will never forget this.
[03:12:43] When does a ground for appeal arise? If a decision is made
[03:12:47] against you, then you appeal the file.
[03:12:49] So a decision has been made
[03:12:52] against you. Do you understand? That's the point here,
[03:12:55] so if your opinion is wrong, then the president should correct it. Yes, no,
[03:12:59] no, that is, you are drawing such an assumption from this word, of course,
[03:13:03] if he said, "I said it by mistake, it just came out of my mouth," but
[03:13:06] these, this sentence is not a sentence
[03:13:09] that can even accidentally come out of one's mouth, I would like
[03:13:12] to specifically note this. Well, sir, uh, former MASAK
[03:13:16] Vice President Ramazan Başak is also our guest in this segment
[03:13:20] via remote connection. Welcome, Mr. Ramazan. Thank you,
[03:13:23] Mr. Gökmen. Greetings to our guests, hello there. Thank
[03:13:27] you very much, uh, Mr. Ramazan,
[03:13:30] there's a media outlet called Bloomberg, it said that this is
[03:13:33] like a 20 billion dollar thing, that is, that
[03:13:36] explosion in funds, the bubble burst, the system
[03:13:39] collapsed and so on, that is, a 20 billion dollar
[03:13:43] thing is being talked about, a story is being talked about, it's not small. Now,
[03:13:46] there's a part of this business like "bir evim, katılım evim" (my house, participation house),
[03:13:50] that's the companies part, there's the holding
[03:13:53] that houses them uh, doing something,
[03:13:57] failing, and then this
[03:14:00] time there's the stock market crash, some funds
[03:14:03] and so on doing something, what
[03:14:07] is it, Tera, Pusula, Tera, Tera ile
[03:14:09] Pusula, Destek, uh, yes.
[03:14:13] We can say their names, right? It's getting involved in many places,
[03:14:16] after that.
[03:14:20] news
[03:14:23] we can say. Holding CEO Emre Tezmen also said,
[03:14:27] "I would like to state here openly that my respect, love, and
[03:14:31] faith in our President and his team who work day and night for our country's
[03:14:34] independence are endless. In line with
[03:14:37] the national vision represented by our President, we will resolutely
[03:14:41] maintain our local and national stance in every platform and at every level
[03:14:44] of responsibility for our country's needs, not just in the financial
[03:14:47] sector."
[03:14:50] Uh, professor, you are a financial crimes expert, that is, former MASAK
[03:14:53] vice president. What happened here, what
[03:14:56] triggered it, where were mistakes made, where was there
[03:14:59] negligence? Now, uh, Mr.
[03:15:02] Gökmen, this incident, uh,
[03:15:05] when you consider that the capital market board was established in 1981,
[03:15:09] it is the most destructive,
[03:15:12] most trust-eroding, and most investor-suffering
[03:15:15] event in the 45-year history of the capital market.
[03:15:19] Let's add a fourth one: it is the biggest
[03:15:23] event where these crimes were committed knowingly,
[03:15:26] right before the authority's eyes,
[03:15:29] leading to this destruction, this loss
[03:15:33] of trust, and hundreds of thousands of
[03:15:36] investors being victimized. Let's first
[03:15:40] clearly state this. Well,
[03:15:44] how did we get to this point? Unfortunately,
[03:15:47] we got to this point because some
[03:15:51] profit-motivated networks or
[03:15:54] uh, ill-intentioned
[03:15:57] people engaged in certain market manipulation
[03:16:00] activities in certain stocks, leading
[03:16:03] to an abnormal surge in the prices
[03:16:07] of those shares. Among these
[03:16:10] are the Tera and Pusula groups, which are the subject
[03:16:14] of today's question, as well as groups related to
[03:16:17] Destek or Hedef, and other groups will emerge,
[03:16:20] because currently the investigation, as
[03:16:24] we see, will expand. Basically, the main
[03:16:28] reason for today's destruction is the abnormal
[03:16:32] increase in the value of these shares by 100, 200, 300,
[03:16:35] or 400 times through some dubious
[03:16:38] transactions, detached from their real value.
[03:16:41] Now, in these stocks, when this process
[03:16:44] of fraud resulted
[03:16:47] in abnormal value
[03:16:50] increases, these were transferred to funds, that is,
[03:16:53] to investment funds. First, they were taken into
[03:16:57] closed investment funds,
[03:17:00] these shares were exchanged mutually, that is,
[03:17:03] in illiquid shares, mostly with low free float rates, and
[03:17:07] in shares that were thought to be easily inflated
[03:17:10] and manipulated. In these closed
[03:17:13] funds, their values were abnormally inflated through dubious
[03:17:17] transactions. Then these were opened
[03:17:20] to investors on Tefas, opened to investors.
[03:17:23] Naturally, investors were drawn to these investment
[03:17:27] funds, which had reached such high values and had increased
[03:17:30] so much, with the influence of social media and certain
[03:17:34] guidance. With investors
[03:17:37] turning to these, a second fuel
[03:17:40] was, in a sense, filled into the tanks
[03:17:44] of these people. With these incoming
[03:17:46] supports, these manipulative movements, that is, value
[03:17:49] increases, reached abnormal levels. Now, this
[03:17:53] uh... "For a very long time,
[03:17:57] manipulative movements, movements towards market manipulation
[03:18:00] in this regard were known.
[03:18:03] That is, we started to express them much earlier.
[03:18:07] I personally started writing about these from April
[03:18:10] 2025 and personally applied in writing to the relevant
[03:18:14] state institutions to take measures, but
[03:18:18] these were not taken into consideration. However,
[03:18:22] at the capital markets congress on November 3, 2025,"
[03:18:25] Mr. Mehmet Şimşek and the former CMB president already said,
[03:18:28] "We know about the manipulations in the stock market,
[03:18:31] we will do what is necessary." As I said, before that,
[03:18:34] these movements had already started and were well known,
[03:18:38] known by name, but for some reason, the authority
[03:18:41] did not take any measures, causing the problem to grow.
[03:18:45] Uh, but the most concrete
[03:18:48] "we know" table, as I said, was at the congress,
[03:18:51] where the minister and the former CMB president
[03:18:55] made a statement on this matter, saying "we know." Well,
[03:18:59] were any measures taken until August 2026? No measures
[03:19:02] were taken. Therefore, the problem grew, and the
[03:19:06] value increases in these stocks, which I mentioned earlier,
[03:19:10] multiplied and grew.
[03:19:12] At the end of August, of course, during this time,
[03:19:16] foreign organizations warned Turkey,
[03:19:20] gave deadlines, saying, "If you don't comply, we will remove
[03:19:23] you from the index, we will do this and that." With the influence of these,
[03:19:27] in August, the CMB came to a point
[03:19:30] of taking measures, making a regulation on this matter,
[03:19:33] but it was delayed so much and the problem
[03:19:37] was amplified so much that any measure
[03:19:41] you take will not have
[03:19:44] any effect in remedying
[03:19:47] the very significant damage. However, it will
[03:19:50] have an effect on preventing such dubious transactions
[03:19:54] in the future, and it will reduce them. Two dates were given,
[03:19:58] October and December, meaning that these manipulative
[03:20:01] or dubious transactions were not stopped
[03:20:04] immediately; a transition period was given, "You will
[03:20:08] do these things until October 31st, you will do these
[03:20:11] things until December 2026, and after that,
[03:20:15] you will no longer be able to do these transactions
[03:20:17] that you have done until now,"
[03:20:19] it said. However, the damage that occurred until
[03:20:23] August, that is, the abnormal inflation of the shares and
[03:20:27] their transfer to funds, and the public offering
[03:20:30] of these funds, is evident. How will you
[03:20:34] fix this? You couldn't fix it.
[03:20:37] With the regulations, the shares started
[03:20:40] to come to their real value, which is the only
[03:20:44] possible outcome; there is no other possible outcome for those
[03:20:47] shares because they were sold with a dream,
[03:20:51] that is, non-existent values were sold. For example,
[03:20:55] today, you look at a factoring company with 150 employees,
[03:20:59] you combine Yapı Kredi and Garanti Bank, its value
[03:21:01] is greater. Hedef Holding has 18 employees,
[03:21:04] that is, you look at it, it can become Turkey's
[03:21:08] second largest company in terms of value.
[03:21:11] You look at small companies, many industrial
[03:21:14] establishments, the most established industrial establishments in Turkey,
[03:21:17] have reached a greater value. How did they reach it?
[03:21:21] Entirely through dubious transactions, through reciprocal
[03:21:24] transactions, through those organized transactions,
[03:21:27] these transactions occurred knowingly, right before the authority's
[03:21:30] eyes. Therefore, when August 2026 arrived,
[03:21:34] the CMB had such a picture. Now,
[03:21:38] the damage had already occurred there, that is,
[03:21:41] any measure you take in the subsequent process
[03:21:45] will serve to reduce and eliminate such
[03:21:48] dubious transactions, or will achieve that. But
[03:21:51] until then, because you tolerated this damage and
[03:21:55] caused this damage to reach very high
[03:21:58] levels, a part of that damage.
[03:22:01] there would be a cost. Now, unfortunately,
[03:22:04] in these recent days, these last two days, with these incidents
[03:22:08] we experienced, the bill for this damage
[03:22:11] has slowly started to be charged to the participants.
[03:22:15] So, out of 220 funds,
[03:22:18] the liquidation of 130 funds has been decided.
[03:22:22] And for the remaining ones, the value of
[03:22:25] 90 funds, which is announced daily,
[03:22:29] will be announced once a month and on the 15th
[03:22:31] of the month, and will be subject to buying and selling
[03:22:35] based on that value. What does this mean?
[03:22:38] For 90 funds, if you want to sell,
[03:22:42] you will wait for the value of that 15th day,
[03:22:45] meaning you will sell at the value after waiting 15 days.
[03:22:49] Now, these funds, especially stock funds, will lose value
[03:22:53] every day. They will lose value. So the process
[03:22:56] is going like this. Other money
[03:23:00] market funds, etc., containing values,
[03:23:03] also have a high probability of losing value
[03:23:06] during the process. Now, if you try to sell
[03:23:09] at the value of the 15th of that day,
[03:23:12] you will get less money than you would get today.
[03:23:16] If you want to withdraw that day. Now,
[03:23:19] the liquidation of 130 funds has been decided.
[03:23:23] So I will say one thing: T+2 is also being abolished,
[03:23:26] it is no longer valid.
[03:23:27] T+2 is abolished,
[03:23:30] 15 working days, now think about it,
[03:23:34] who will remove the portfolio?
[03:23:38] There is 1.1 trillion TL worth, meaning these 220
[03:23:41] funds correspond to a massive amount of
[03:23:44] 1.1 trillion. There are approximately
[03:23:48] 1 million investors. Look,
[03:23:51] throughout history, since the Republic, even in the history of the Republic,
[03:23:54] and I have been in bureaucracy since the 80s,
[03:23:58] and I follow these issues very closely.
[03:24:02] In the history of the Republic, there have been very few transactions
[03:24:05] with such high damage, both in terms of amount
[03:24:07] and as an event that occurred right under the eyes of the authority.
[03:24:11] It is both a loss of trust and destructive,
[03:24:14] and so many investors
[03:24:18] have been victimized. This is a first in the history of the CMB.
[03:24:21] Now, we are talking about a size of 1.1 trillion
[03:24:24] and we are talking about 1 million people.
[03:24:27] The CMB will handle the liquidation of these
[03:24:30] 130 companies that are being liquidated
[03:24:34] or put into liquidation. Now, how quickly
[03:24:37] will the CMB do this? When it does,
[03:24:41] the value of these funds will erode every day,
[03:24:44] it will disappear. Therefore, who will cover the damage
[03:24:48] that arises in this regard, which is very, very likely to be large damage?
[03:24:51] That's why I made a post on X
[03:24:54] today. Yes, there is a very big
[03:24:58] negligence, there is a very big dereliction of duty.
[03:25:02] This is very clear, but what needs to be done
[03:25:05] at this point are two urgent
[03:25:09] things. First, according to Article 17
[03:25:12] of Law No. 5549
[03:25:15] on the Prevention of Money Laundering, an urgent measure
[03:25:19] must be placed on the assets
[03:25:21] of these four bosses, meaning the four bosses currently
[03:25:25] under investigation. These are Destek, Hedef,
[03:25:29] Pusula, and Tera.
[03:25:32] An urgent measure must be placed on the assets of these four bosses, because there is a strong suspicion of crime,
[03:25:36] and the incidents that occurred are very serious.
[03:25:39] The damage that could be caused is very large.
[03:25:42] An urgent measure must be placed on their assets according
[03:25:45] to Article 17 of Law No. 5549. Then,
[03:25:49] with the values obtained as a result of this measure,
[03:25:52] the money of the investors in these funds, whatever amount can be covered,
[03:25:56] must be paid. It's not an easy
[03:25:59] thing. Why? Because, look,
[03:26:03] as long as there is negligence on the part of the public,
[03:26:07] as long as the public does not perform its duty,
[03:26:10] as long as it does not perform
[03:26:13] görevini yapmadığı sürece meydana gelen
[03:26:16] zararlarla ilgili olarak siz vatandaşı suçlayamazsınız. Şimdi
[03:26:20] genel olarak şöyle bir algı var, işte yüksek değerdeydi, e
[03:26:24] bilseydi, almasaydı, eee işte celemesini
[03:26:27] çeksin. Siz bunu söylerken kamunun
[03:26:31] bütün görevleri, bütün sorumlulukları yerine getirilmiştir, kamu
[03:26:34] görevini yapmıştır, denetim görevini yapmıştır, vatandaş. gitmiştir, riskli
[03:26:38] yatırım araçlarına parasını yatırmıştır, evet bunun karşılığında
[03:26:41] ceremesini çeksin dersiniz, ama kamu
[03:26:45] organize biçimde yapılan, gözgöre göre yapılan defalarca
[03:26:49] bütün uzmanların, aklı selim bütün uzmanların eee
[03:26:52] yaptığı uyarılara dikkat etmeden biliyoruz demesine
[03:26:56] rağmen bakan ve eski SPK başkanının bu
[03:26:59] dolandırıcılıklarla yüz binlerce vatandaşın dolandırılmasına
[03:27:03] eee sebebiyet verirse burada
[03:27:06] kamunun... da sorumluluğu var, elbette ki o görevlerin, görevlilerin
[03:27:10] görevi imalle ilgili bir süreci olacaktır, onlara destek verenler,
[03:27:14] çünkü kamudan siyasetten, bürokrasiden destek
[03:27:17] almadan bu kadar organize ve büyük çaplı
[03:27:20] bir eee şeyi, dolandırıcılığı
[03:27:23] gerçekleştirmeleri mümkün değil, ben 45 yıl ee masanın her tarafında çalışmış
[03:27:27] bir insanım, her eee görevde de bulundum, mümkün
[03:27:31] değil, dolayısıyla mutlaka onlar bundan sonraki süreçte
[03:27:35] şeyi eee sorumluluklarının. yerine
[03:27:38] getirecek ve yargı da bunların hesabını soracaktı, dolayısıyla kamu
[03:27:41] görevini yapmadığı için, sorumluluklarını yerine getirmediği için, bu
[03:27:45] dolandırıcılıkların yapılmasına göz yumduğu
[03:27:48] için, görmediği için eee bu yatırımcıların mümkün
[03:27:52] olduğunca bakın hazineye el atılsın demiyorum, hazineye el
[03:27:55] atılmadan, hazineye sirayet etmeden bu kişilerin
[03:27:59] çaldıkları paraları başka yerlere
[03:28:02] devretmemeleri için bu kişilerin bir kere mal varlıklarına el
[03:28:05] konulması lazım neden? bakın sermaye piyasası kanunu
[03:28:09] 63-62 sayılı kanunda 107 madde piyasa dolandırıcılığın
[03:28:13] işte manipülasyon dedikleri şeyin
[03:28:16] karşılığı kanunda piyasa dolandırıcılığıdır.
[03:28:21] arıcılığında bir kere cezalar çok düşük, siz bankada bir
[03:28:24] şube müdürü veya yönetici olarak bir mudinin hesabından
[03:28:27] 100.000'yi izinsiz aldığınız zaman sate bir imzayla 20
[03:28:31] yıla kadar hapis cezası var 20 yıla kadar 160
[03:28:34] madde sermaye piyasası kanunu'nun 107 maddesinde yani
[03:28:38] bugün yapılan işlemlerin karşılığı olan piyasa dolandırıcılığında yüz
[03:28:42] binlerce yatırımcıyı dolandırıyorsunuz bakın yüz binlerce
[03:28:45] yatırımcıyı yüz binlerce yatırımcının parasını çalıyorsunuz
[03:28:49] alacağınız 3 ve 5 yıl arası
[03:28:52] da üçüncü fıkra gereği eee tespit
[03:28:55] edilebilen zararın iki katını hazineye ödediğinizde
[03:28:58] bakın hazineye şeye değil yatırımcılara
[03:29:01] değil hazineye ödediğinizde hiç ceza
[03:29:03] yok yani onun için
[03:29:07] bugünkü paylaşımda yani
[03:29:10] zarara uğrayan gözgöre göre kamunun görevini yapmaması
[03:29:14] nedeniyle zarara uğrayan eee yatırımcıları da
[03:29:18] kollamak adına hazineyen sirayet etmesini önlemek
[03:29:21] adına bu tedbir konularak elde edilecek
[03:29:25] ki yurt dışı varlıklarına da gitmesi lazım masaın elde edilecek
[03:29:28] varlıkların eee gerçekten zarara uğrayan bu
[03:29:32] kişilere dağıtılması uygun çözüm
[03:29:34] olacak
[03:29:36] peki eee dolayısıyla bunun bir sermaye piyasası ayağı var bugün
[03:29:40] eee işte gerçekleşen en son olayda bir de
[03:29:43] eee finans piyasalarına da sirayet etme
[03:29:47] riski var şu anda çünkü bu eee
[03:29:50] dört grubun yatırım bankaları, pusulanında
[03:29:53] katılım bankası var, dolayısıyla sadece sermaye
[03:29:57] piyasalarına ilgilendiren bir sorun yok, aynı zamanda
[03:30:01] eee bankacılık eee sektörünü de ilgilendirdiği için bu
[03:30:04] gruplara ait birer bankada olduğu için katılım bankası da
[03:30:08] dahil eee BDDK'nın ve finans piyasaları ile ilgili otoritenin
[03:30:11] yani BDDK'nın da eee devreye girmesi lazım
[03:30:15] nedenle bir üçüncü şey yapılması lazım Gökmen
[03:30:18] Bey, BDDK. ve eee
[03:30:21] tmsf'nin bir araya gelmesi acilen bu
[03:30:25] bankalara bir kere bir yönetim ataması
[03:30:28] lazım ve pusula holding'e bir yönetim ataması lazım veya diğer
[03:30:32] holdinglere, çünkü eee siz eee çok önemli bir
[03:30:36] iddiayla bu kişileri soruşturuyorsunuz, yurt dışı yasağı koyuyorsunuz,
[03:30:39] işte arkasında belki tutuklamalar gelecek, bugün birkaç
[03:30:43] tutuklama olduğu söyleniyor bu gözaltına alınan patronlarla
[03:30:46] ilgili e ama bu insanlar işinin başında.
[03:30:50] peki işinin başındayken eee delil karartma işte mal
[03:30:54] kaçırma gizleme eee türü şeylerin
[03:30:57] yapılmayacağını nereden biliyorsunuz onun için
[03:30:59] eee hem tedbir mallarına tedbir hem de
[03:31:03] işte eee bu ilgili kurumlara eee bir eee
[03:31:07] kamunun yönetimi eee oluşturarak bir atama
[03:31:10] yapması eee şu anda gelinen noktada uygun çözüm olacak gibi
[03:31:14] duruyor evet eee bir
[03:31:17] figen hanıma tabii tabii soru sorcak. Bu arada Murat hocam bu
[03:31:21] rakamlar ne ya 1,1 trilyonluk şey toplam
[03:31:24] eee fonların değeri evet 17 milyar dolarlık
[03:31:28] bir şey var yani 1 milyon insanın
[03:31:32] doğrudan dahil olduğu bir durumdan bahsediyoruz ki birçok insan
[03:31:36] bankalar tarafından yönlendirilmiş gitmişler
[03:31:38] bankaya bakın burada az önce bize yazan mesela
[03:31:42] izleyicinin durumundaki gibi hani garantili en düşük
[03:31:45] riskli olduğu varsayılan para
[03:31:48] piyasası fonu almış ama para... piyasası fonu ters
[03:31:51] repo işlemini bir hisse senedini dayanak gösterererek
[03:31:55] yapmış o şirketin yani burada yine
[03:31:58] ee o şirketin de yönetim kurulu başkanı şimdi gözaltında
[03:32:02] destek factoring ya baktığınızda inanılmaz bir
[03:32:05] değer var ya defter değerinin 100 katına
[03:32:08] ulaşmış spk bunun neresinde devreye girecek pia değeri
[03:32:12] şirketin defter değerinin 100 katına uşmış katına ulaşmış
[03:32:16] yani destek faktoring iş bankasının 2,5 katı olmuş ya.
[03:32:20] ya siz bir yerinde demez misiniz yani bu bu arada 2,5 katı dediğim şu
[03:32:24] anki değeri yarısına düşmüş hali bu yani bu
[03:32:27] bir yerde sürdürülemeyecekti zaten bu bir yerde çökecekti
[03:32:30] spk'nın bu balonu görüp buradaki anormal
[03:32:33] hareketleri bu markezin kırmızı pazartesi vardır
[03:32:37] ya herkes bilir o cinayetin işleneceğiniz hikayeye öyle
[03:32:40] gireriz herkes biliyordu bütün
[03:32:43] forumlara vesaireye girdiğinizde bu aracı
[03:32:46] kurumlar bu kurumlar bu fonlar nereye?
[03:32:50] iş yaparsa millet orayı yakalamaya çalışıyordu, alıyordu,
[03:32:52] uçuruyordu, 50 liradan çıkmış hisse senedi
[03:32:56] bir sene, bir buçuk sene önce piyasaya arz edilmiş, mesela bu bahsettiğim destek
[03:33:00] faktörünik, 50 liradan çıkmış ta
[03:33:03] gitmiş 4.000 liralara, ya şimdi 2.000 liralardayken bu
[03:33:07] olay gerçekleşti, siz nerede müdahale edecektiniz buna,
[03:33:11] yani buradaki değerlerin tutmadığını, burada çok büyük balon ortaya çıktığını bilmiyor
[03:33:14] musunuz, hepsini geçtim, bu eğer
[03:33:17] olmaması gereken işte...
[03:33:25] çok büyük bir ihmal var burada ve önümüzdeki süreçte hani seçim
[03:33:29] vesaire diyoruz ya hani ne olacak siz faiz indireceksiniz vatanda.
[03:33:37] Bu borsaya kim girer böyle bir
[03:33:38] ortamda? Bigen hanım
[03:33:41] e Ramazan Bey şuna dikkat
[03:33:44] çekti, evet yani bu tür yatırımlarda bulunmak
[03:33:48] risklidir. Dolayısıyla hani bu riskin doğa
[03:33:51] sonuçlarından biri de kaybetmektir.
[03:33:54] Ama ilgili kurumlar görevlerini tam olarak
[03:33:57] yerine getirmek kaydıyla bu risk
[03:34:00] eee bu şekilde değerlen. Siz ne
[03:34:03] dersiniz, siz de çünkü buna benzer şeyler söylemiştiniz o iki
[03:34:07] dilim önce konuşmamızda evet
[03:34:11] Ramazan Bey'in anlatımları değerli tabii ki, şimdi
[03:34:13] burada kurumların bağımsızlığına çok
[03:34:17] ihtiyacımız var, bunu tekrar ediyorum, bir daha bunun
[03:34:20] yaşanmaması için yapısal önlemler işte
[03:34:24] yapabilirler ama bunları uygulamada
[03:34:27] kararlılık görür müyüz, çünkü
[03:34:31] bakanı. dediği neredeyse 10 ay oluyor tespiti
[03:34:35] peki eee bu SPK Maliye Bakanlığına
[03:34:38] bağlı Hazine ve Maliye Bakanlığına bağlı tabii ki kararlarını ayrı alan bir kurum
[03:34:42] onu demek istemiyorum ama başındaki bakan bunu tespit
[03:34:46] ettikten sonra oradaki uzmanların bu gerçeği
[03:34:49] bilmeleri görmeleri ee
[03:34:51] kaçınılmaz uzman olarak orada oturuyorlar ve az evvel kanuna
[03:34:55] da değindim hele ki gözetim ve denetim eee
[03:34:59] dairesinin görevleri çok net özellikle. "özellikle
[03:35:03] bu tür işlemler, bu tür yoğunlaşmalar,
[03:35:06] dolandırıcılığa yönelik, piyasa dolandırıcılığa yönelik
[03:35:09] hareketleri en rahat onlar görebilir. şimdi Ramazan Bey
[03:35:13] eee daha uygun bir üslupla ihmal dedi, eee, bu
[03:35:17] biraz eee daha dikkatli bir eee
[03:35:20] soruşturmayı gerektirir, bağımsız kurumlar derken
[03:35:23] hakikaten vatandaşın canı burada çok yandı, vatandaşın
[03:35:27] canını yakıldığı kadar o oranda kazananlar
[03:35:30] var, bu kazananlar kimler? paydaşları kimler, yani
[03:35:34] sadece burada 4 kişi veya o şirketler değil, şimdi
[03:35:38] basitçe bir gecede bir sabah uyandık, tavut şirketlerine
[03:35:41] denetim kayyum atandığını gördük ki yasada mümkün değildi o
[03:35:45] suçta, bunu da o zaman tekrar tekrar söyledim, şimdi
[03:35:48] burada mutlaka ve mutlaka bu tedbirlerin işletilmesi
[03:35:52] lazım, artık bağımsız yöneticilere bunların
[03:35:55] geçirilmesi ve sıkı denetlenmesi lazım, bunun yasada karşılığı
[03:35:59] var ve Türkiye'deki cumhuriyetin.
[03:36:02] Savcılarına gerçekten çok ciddi iş düşüyor ama
[03:36:06] şimdi bakarsanız bakan 10 aylık
[03:36:10] sürede bunu baştan biliyor olmasına rağmen bu
[03:36:13] gidişatı durduramamış ve bu ağır yıkım
[03:36:17] engellenememiş ise bunu bunun eli
[03:36:20] kolunu bağlayan kim yani bu
[03:36:22] irade nasıl kaynaklanıyor bunlar nerelerden bu
[03:36:26] cesaret alınıyor bunların bir bağımsız
[03:36:30] tarafsız cumhuriyet. Savcılıklar
[03:36:33] tarafından araştırılması, soruşturulması gerekiyor. Biz bunu
[03:36:37] görecek miyiz? Gökmen Bey ee pek emin
[03:36:40] değilim. Yani bu 10 aylık süreçte yaşananlar
[03:36:43] sonrasında kazananlar var, hem
[03:36:47] de öyle böyle değil fazlas kazananlar var. Ramazan Bey
[03:36:50] başka bir yol gösterdi, mal varlıkları. Dilerim üstlerinde mal
[03:36:54] varlıkları vardır. Olmayaması kuvvetle
[03:36:57] muhtemel. Yani bu insanların evet eee
[03:37:00] zararları var. O insanları. "suçlama gibi bir
[03:37:04] lüksümüz yok, çok doğru bir tespit, sistem dört dörtlük
[03:37:07] olur, şahısların kendi tercihleridir, o risk analizlerini yapmışlardır
[03:37:11] ve bunu üstlenmişlerdir, ama burada öyle bir durum yok, çok ciddi
[03:37:15] bir zaafiyet var, ben
[03:37:18] beklerim ki bir hukukçu olarak ve bu ülkenin bir
[03:37:21] vatandaşı olarak cumhuriyet tarihinde görülmemiş dedi
[03:37:25] Ramazan bey rakamlar uçuk ve bence bu burada
[03:37:28] kalmayacak eee daha da büyük farklı işlemlerin."
[03:37:43] what date we will see, if it can be stopped, it couldn't be stopped, we don't know if it went out of the loop. I hope they quickly put in place very strict measures to compensate for this process and present it to the citizens. But
[03:37:47] Mrs. Figen, a committee of the ministry
[03:37:50] gathered on this, and a statement came from that committee,
[03:37:54] the Financial Stability Committee said there is no serious situation,
[03:37:58] no infrastructural problem, etc.
[03:38:01] Immediately after these events, the minister appeared on live broadcast
[03:38:05] and did not address this issue at all.
[03:38:08] I think the main thing that was said was that it could be managed temporarily,
[03:38:12] but Mrs. Figen, the minister didn't address the issue at all.
[03:38:16] I watched it specifically. He appeared on Habertürk
[03:38:20] as if that day the whole country was burning
[03:38:23] and this event had erupted. Neither he brought it up, nor did
[03:38:27] the person asking the questions,
[03:38:30] the moderator, ask him about it.
[03:38:33] They don't talk about the suffering of the citizens.
[03:38:37] That's not an issue for them.
[03:38:40] They talk about whether they can get the turmoil under control.
[03:38:43] There's a lot of money involved, a huge amount of money.
[03:38:47] There's a significant outflow in reserves today as well,
[03:38:50] and the measures taken are to ensure
[03:38:53] liquidity. There's such a big concern
[03:38:57] about contagion that we quickly saw the measures
[03:39:00] taken by the BRSA and the Central Bank. We first saw the Central Bank's
[03:39:04] measures, and they were eased. Why? Because
[03:39:08] it could lead to a very serious monetary problem,
[03:39:11] it could be contagious. These are not small numbers.
[03:39:23] Consider the money circulating and the money flowing out. At the same time, there is a loss of trust. We were going to provide this trust, investments were going to come, and everything was ruined here. This cannot be seen
[03:39:27] as insignificant. Mr. Ramazan, you wanted
[03:39:30] to say something. Can I say something? Now, look,
[03:39:34] we are facing a very, very big event,
[03:39:36] and hundreds of billions of dollars. uh, sorry, TL
[03:39:39] in criminal proceeds were obtained here,
[03:39:43] because market manipulation
[03:39:45] carries a prison sentence of 3 to 5 years.
[03:39:49] The values obtained are criminal proceeds,
[03:39:52] and these have been subjected
[03:39:56] to laundering according to Article 282 of the TPC.
[03:39:59] Therefore, we have been on the grey list
[03:40:02] twice, in 2011-2014,
[03:40:06] and 2021-2024, totaling 6 years,
[03:40:09] and we paid very high prices.
[03:40:12] We are still under close monitoring. So, as a country
[03:40:16] on the FATF's close radar,
[03:40:19] we should be very sensitive to these issues,
[03:40:23] but in this incident alone, hundreds of billions
[03:40:26] of liras of black money and money laundering traffic
[03:40:29] occurred, and unfortunately,
[03:40:32] the relevant authorities did not
[03:40:35] intervene in these. Therefore,
[03:40:39] these investigations will definitely
[03:40:43] fall under TPC Article 282, because they are criminal proceeds.
[03:40:46] They will all be subject to TPC
[03:40:49] Article 282. And some of these groups
[03:40:53] had announced that they made investments abroad. They had announced that they bought participation banks abroad,
[03:40:56] in countries like Holland and some other third world countries.
[03:41:00] They had said that they made
[03:41:02] investments, they had announced
[03:41:06] it. I had also made a post on X,
[03:41:09] I said the money has moved to the laundering stage.
[03:41:12] So, you said it moved to the laundering stage,
[03:41:16] meaning criminal proceeds were obtained, meaning
[03:41:19] a fraud transaction occurred according to 107,
[03:41:22] worth hundreds of billions of liras. So, money was obtained
[03:41:26] and put into laundering. Now, for example,
[03:41:29] for years, we always asked where we could earn the easiest, fastest,
[03:41:33] and most money. Wasn't it from drugs? From drugs.
[03:41:36] But in recent years, I've shared this many times,
[03:41:39] the ranking has changed in recent years. The easiest, fastest,
[03:41:43] and most money comes from illegal betting, market
[03:41:46] manipulation, and drugs.
[03:41:49] Why? Because in drugs, there's a process: you plant, you sow,
[03:41:52] there are chemical processes,
[03:41:56] logistics, etc. Let's not elaborate on that.
[03:42:00] But in market manipulation and
[03:42:02] illegal betting, a few programs,
[03:42:06] 3-4 computers. In market manipulation, when you make a deal
[03:42:09] with a few brokerage firms and a boss, you can earn
[03:42:13] hundreds of billions or tens of billions of liras
[03:42:16] in a very short
[03:42:18] time.
[03:42:21] In a very short time. Therefore,
[03:42:24] these investigations, as I said, will also be subject
[03:42:27] to TPC 282 money laundering,
[03:42:31] and in subsequent processes,
[03:42:33] when the FATF evaluates us, it will definitely
[03:42:37] have criticisms about why we did not intervene
[03:42:40] in the increased money laundering traffic.
[03:42:43] Now, Mr. Ramazan, when you say things will be done
[03:42:46] like this, you are referring to what needs to be done.
[03:42:50] As far as I understand, do you have enough
[03:42:53] faith that these will be carried out perfectly,
[03:42:56] as you said? Are you confident
[03:43:00] about this? I mean,
[03:43:02] I want to believe. I can't really
[03:43:05] say that
[03:43:07] it will definitely be done,
[03:43:11] etc., in such a relaxed and definite tone.
[03:43:14] But an important step has been taken.
[03:43:17] I mean, it was thought
[03:43:21] that these would never be touched
[03:43:24] until about a week ago. Because you see,
[03:43:28] there's a transfer from MIT
[03:43:31] within a group, you see there's a member
[03:43:34] of the Presidential Economic Policies Committee, so-and-so,
[03:43:38] you see there's a former Undersecretary
[03:43:41] in the Ministry of Finance at a very high level.
[03:43:45] So, relationships
[03:43:48] are being talked about, who they are in relationships with,
[03:43:51] etc. The idea that a step could not be taken
[03:43:54] on this issue was more dominant, but today
[03:43:58] we saw that, one way or another, this step was taken.
[03:44:01] I also attach great importance to this, because if
[03:44:04] it had been delayed, the number of 1 million people
[03:44:07] currently suffering, the number of 1 million people,
[03:44:11] would have been much higher. The fund size of 1.1
[03:44:14] trillion would have been 2.1 trillion,
[03:44:17] and it would have reached much more destructive points.
[03:44:21] From this perspective, even though it's very late,
[03:44:24] I still consider it an important step and I hope
[03:44:27] it continues. Nesrin NASA sent us a message,
[03:44:31] saying, Mr. Gökmen, institutions like the CMB
[03:44:34] and the BRSA, Nesrin Hanım makes an analogy here,
[03:44:37] are institutions that clear the table during a party
[03:44:40] to prevent excessive behavior. They are not spectators,
[03:44:44] she says, they don't just watch the party as spectators.
[03:44:48] And of course, there will be excessive behavior in such things.
[03:44:51] They are there to prevent this, they are institutions
[03:44:54] that clear the table, she says. And also,
[03:44:57] look, now
[03:45:01] in these, there are
[03:45:04] three investment banks in these groups, meaning the groups currently under investigation.
[03:45:08] I also said there's a participation bank
[03:45:10] and two savings and finance sectors.
[03:45:14] So there's Katılım Evim and Bir Evim.
[03:45:18] Now, why is the savings and finance sector
[03:45:22] important? Because
[03:45:24] it operates by collecting money from the public,
[03:45:28] meaning it's like a deposit, not a deposit,
[03:45:31] but it collects money from the public.
[03:45:34] sector. Now, today,
[03:45:38] Katilim Evim's customer count is 110
[03:45:41] thousand, meaning 70 thousand-something are vehicles,
[03:45:45] and the rest, which are houses.
[03:45:48] Now, I don't know how much Bir Evim is,
[03:45:52] I don't think Bir Evim will cause much of a problem
[03:45:55] because most of these transactions were carried out through Katilim Evim.
[03:45:59] The most common question is, will we
[03:46:03] be able to get our money back? If Katilim Evim and Bir Evim
[03:46:06] acted in accordance with the
[03:46:10] regulations, i.e., Law No. 63-61,
[03:46:13] they started to be subject to the supervision and auditing
[03:46:17] of the BRSA in 2021. The savings
[03:46:20] finance sector. If they acted in accordance
[03:46:22] with this law and secondary regulations
[03:46:26] issued by the BRSA, I believe
[03:46:29] that the participants, the customers,
[03:46:32] will be able to get their money back. However,
[03:46:36] if they used the bills and other things
[03:46:39] there contrary to the regulations, there will undoubtedly
[03:46:42] be a serious problem. From this perspective,
[03:46:45] the savings finance sector also has
[03:46:49] about 100,000 people. In Bir Evim,
[03:46:53] you can find around 30-40 thousand people
[03:46:56] in total. There is a group of 50 thousand people
[03:46:59] there. From this perspective,
[03:47:03] the magnitude of the event is on top of many people.
[03:47:07] And there are also development investment banks. Today,
[03:47:10] I looked, there is an asset total
[03:47:13] of over 150 billion. Development investment banks
[03:47:17] have borrowed and lent money to many institutions
[03:47:21] and many people. There is also a possible
[03:47:24] danger in the finance sector from that side.
[03:47:27] There is a danger of it spreading generally.
[03:47:31] From this perspective, the issue is not just
[03:47:35] the capital market, but also the savings finance sector,
[03:47:38] the banking sector, and its subsidiaries. Therefore,
[03:47:41] a much more careful process needs to be carried out. For this,
[03:47:45] as I said, the managements must be determined
[03:47:47] by the public, and this process should be carried
[03:47:51] out under the supervision of those managers. Yes, but let me add this here:
[03:47:55] in the case of Katilim Evim, the BRSA has an obligation
[03:47:58] to audit the asset managements of these savings finance companies.
[03:48:02] It doesn't offer a deposit insurance like a deposit insurance,
[03:48:05] but if those assets are somehow illegally removed from the system,
[03:48:09] the BRSA should have intervened. It has a serious responsibility
[03:48:12] there. If so, we are facing a very big negligence.
[03:48:16] My question is about how effectively these investigations and examinations,
[03:48:19] covering all institutions, will be carried out
[03:48:23] to address this issue. Actually, I think
[03:48:26] it's the 4.3rd in the system, if I'm not mistaken.
[03:48:30] I'm using the example of one of the most important
[03:48:34] companies. I'm also
[03:48:37] a bit of a company, let me hear from İsmail Bey, then I'll return
[03:48:40] to Figen. Yes, we need to decide on this.
[03:48:44] Now, the minister's statement
[03:48:46] date is November 4, 2025. At the Turkish Capital Markets Congress,
[03:48:50] he said, "I will look at the issue more simply."
[03:48:54] I will try to summarize it very concisely. We know
[03:48:57] that manipulations are being made through these. Now,
[03:49:01] at best, after the words of the Minister of Treasury and Finance,
[03:49:04] who is the institution that needs to take action
[03:49:08] on this matter? The Capital Markets Board.
[03:49:10] Isn't it very simple? If I'm wrong, Mr. Ramazan can correct me.
[03:49:13] Now, as far as I know, the CMB
[03:49:16] chairman will change on May 9, 2026.
[03:49:19] Okay, the CMB chairman until then didn't do it.
[03:49:22] What month are we in now, from May? We are in September.
[03:49:26] Why didn't the CMB chairman and management take action
[03:49:30] on this matter until September? I'm trying to say
[03:49:33] these connections This is not a situation
[03:49:36] to be dismissed as unimportant. a spectator position
[03:49:40] on this matter, its current acting chairman
[03:49:43] and influential people? I think that's the main question here.
[03:49:47] How many precautions can they take? What are their limits?
[03:49:50] I think this is currently unknown, because
[03:49:54] there is such a situation that
[03:49:57] he said there is
[03:49:59] negligence by the public, very correctly, and I agree.
[03:50:02] Of course, there is negligence by the public because
[03:50:06] they are in a spectator position. We also know
[03:50:08] that after this incident, the CMB prepared a guide
[03:50:12] starting from August 28, and it was said that
[03:50:15] these institutions would comply with it. So they know very well
[03:50:19] what the problem is. Of course, after this incident
[03:50:22] erupted in these stocks, they made prohibition
[03:50:25] lists for the managements of various institutions and funds,
[03:50:29] and gave various penalties. They are very well
[03:50:32] aware of who did not fulfill
[03:50:35] their obligations and which institution.
[03:50:38] Measures had already been taken in these stocks.
[03:50:42] For example, the volatility-based measures for short selling
[03:50:47] were taken two or three times. But despite that, nothing.
[03:50:51] So the question comes to my mind: despite this process
[03:50:55] being followed in great detail, despite the necessary moves
[03:50:58] being made immediately afterwards, person by person,
[03:51:01] institution by institution, why wasn't it done before?
[03:51:05] I think that's the main problem here. And therefore,
[03:51:08] look, the current CMB chairman was the second chairman
[03:51:11] in the previous period. Well, the other aspect of the matter,
[03:51:14] Mr. Ramazan, there is a continuous
[03:51:17] responsibility there, a legal context.
[03:51:20] Therefore, if this investigation is to proceed,
[03:51:24] if this investigation is to proceed,
[03:51:28] administrative action must be taken here,
[03:51:32] and the necessary measures must be taken as soon as possible
[03:51:35] to make this person's investigation more effective. I cannot
[03:52:01] Also, in June, the investment's negative
[03:52:05] foreign capital investment turned negative on August 25.
[03:52:08] Now, also,
[03:52:20] I need to go to a commercial. Can you stay for another 5 minutes
[03:52:24] in the next segment? Please complete your comment there,
[03:52:26] because what you said is important. İsmail, you've also followed
[03:52:29] these issues very well. Because everyone,
[03:52:33] we have many people around us asking us, İsmail,
[03:52:37] we are bidding farewell in this segment. I will continue with my other guests. Thank you very much.
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[03:56:59] "To make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
[03:57:03] to show the unseen."
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[03:57:34] we will be together in this studio.
[03:57:48] Turkey's energy depot. Orbus.
[03:58:06] Openly continues. We will say goodbye to Ms. Figen,
[03:58:09] but she was saying something important before the break,
[03:58:13] so we asked her to complete it.
[03:58:15] Please, Ms. Figen.
[03:58:17] So, on August 25-26, it was observed
[03:58:21] that foreign capital turned negative in terms
[03:58:24] of inflows and outflows. We had seen the Central Bank's
[03:58:28] statements and declarations in this regard.
[03:58:31] But what I want to say here is that these are intertwined structures,
[03:58:35] especially when I look, I see Pusula Finans Holding,
[03:58:38] portfolio funds, participation house, etc. Now,
[03:58:41] if a truly effective investigation
[03:58:45] is to be conducted,
[03:58:47] can be examined. So, technically,
[03:58:51] these are among the things that need to be legally examined.
[03:58:54] Is there a division of labor among them? Was it established
[03:58:57] in advance? Now, when you look at it,
[03:59:01] these were permitted about 3 years ago,
[03:59:05] and as Mr. Ramazan also said,
[03:59:08] they operate on a small scale, with about 18 people.
[03:59:11] But when you look at it, these are places where very
[03:59:15] large amounts of money circulate. In terms of stock prices
[03:59:17] or trading volume, not to give a misleading
[03:59:21] impression, these are not ordinary matters,
[03:59:24] not things that happen by chance. In that sense,
[03:59:28] the provisions of the TCK also come into play.
[03:59:31] That also needs to be looked at if an effective investigation
[03:59:35] is desired. I wanted to explain that.
[03:59:39] This is very important. A significant duty falls
[03:59:43] upon the public prosecutors. The fire in the pockets
[03:59:45] of so many thousands of citizens will seriously affect the market,
[03:59:48] and we are facing a situation that can cause many breakdowns,
[03:59:52] kırılmaya da neden olabilecek bir durumla karşı karşıyayız öyle
[03:59:55] önemsiz geçiştirilecek bir durum değil peki
[03:59:59] Well, Figen Çalıkuşu, thank you very much
[04:00:02] for your contribution. Good evening,
[04:00:05] see you. Now, Professor Murat will tell us
[04:00:08] more about this issue, and former MASAK vice president
[04:00:12] Mr. Ramazan will also explain, but I didn't give the floor
[04:00:15] to Mr. Doğan in the previous segment, yet these issues certainly have
[04:00:19] political dimensions to be interpreted. Look, we also said this,
[04:00:22] didn't we? What did NTR Holding boss Emre Tezmen say?
[04:00:25] He said, "I want to express clearly here that my respect,
[04:00:29] love, and faith in our President and his team, who work day and night
[04:00:33] for the independence of our country,
[04:00:36] are infinite." In line with the national vision represented by our President,