HALKTV — Acikca
20260917 210000 UTC
4051 transcript segments
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[00:00:02] the fire in the pockets of thousands of citizens and
[00:00:05] as a result, it will affect the market very seriously and our breakdowns, that is, this foreign
[00:00:08] capital, etc. We are facing a situation
[00:00:12] that can cause many breakdowns. It is not a trivial situation
[00:00:15] that can be passed over easily. Thank you very much, Figen Çalıkuşu,
[00:00:19] for your contribution. Good evening.
[00:00:22] I hope to see you again. Yes, now
[00:00:25] Professor Murat will tell us more about this issue.
[00:00:28] In the same way, former MASAK President
[00:00:32] Ramazan Bey will also tell us, but I did not give the floor to Doğan Bey in the previous
[00:00:35] segment, even though these issues have dimensions that can be interpreted
[00:00:38] politically. Look, we also
[00:00:42] said this, didn't we? Emre Tezmenli, the owner of Terra Holding, what did he say?
[00:00:46] I would like to openly state here that my respect, love, and belief
[00:00:49] in our President and his team, who work day and night for the independence of our country,
[00:00:53] are endless. In line with the national vision represented
[00:00:56] by our President, we will resolutely maintain our domestic and national stance
[00:01:00] not only in the financial field but also on every platform and at every level of responsibility
[00:01:03] that our country needs. Now, isn't this
[00:01:07] very clearly a position
[00:01:10] that stands with the government, Professor Doğan? That is, a position
[00:01:13] that stands with Erdoğan and in 2025,
[00:01:17] look, in a news report by Dilek Güngör,
[00:01:21] a columnist for Sabah, it says that Emre Tezmen, the owner of the TR group,
[00:01:24] made some statements at that time,
[00:01:27] and Dilek Güngör also said that Emre Tezmen, the owner of the Tera group,
[00:01:31] became the voice of the business world. What voice did he become?
[00:01:34] What statements is he conveying? Inflation does not fall only with interest rate policy.
[00:01:38] The problem is in supply. We can solve it by supporting production.
[00:01:42] Turkish businessmen who do business in this interest rate environment should be rewarded.
[00:01:45] I mean, I want to ask,
[00:01:49] of course, and I am not directly
[00:01:53] connecting them with what he is currently accused of, because his name is mentioned in the Teran investigation.
[00:01:57] But, Professor Doğan, do these issues have a political
[00:02:00] dimension that can be interpreted? What do you say?
[00:02:04] Well, now, even on social media, especially authors close to the government
[00:02:07] are making many posts saying that
[00:02:11] they should be cleansed of this and face it. Why are they doing this?
[00:02:15] Because we are talking about a very long AKP government
[00:02:19] stocks. If those measures that has been in power for a quarter of a century.
[00:02:22] During this time, the AKP's position
[00:02:25] began to be pushed into the background.
[00:02:29] And with the presidential system, the President
[00:02:33] came to the forefront. Now, generally, the base
[00:02:36] of this movement had such a belief.
[00:02:40] They had such a thought. That is, this
[00:02:42] party got tired and somewhat
[00:02:46] corrupted, and Mr. Erdoğan also said during this transformation that there was a very serious
[00:02:50] metal fatigue, and that cadres needed to be changed, etc. Now, the reason for this was actually
[00:02:53] corruption at one point. The people were saying that they came to power, and we supported them,
[00:02:57] but they are very seriously involved in corruption.
[00:03:08] But our leader is free from these things, etc.
[00:03:12] And more importantly, in the presidential system, it continued
[00:03:16] with him, and the party was somewhat relegated to the background, meaning the party
[00:03:20] was corrupted, but the regime
[00:03:23] and that tradition were thought to remain cleaner in a way.
[00:03:26] Now, in the last 10 years, there has been a very serious
[00:03:32] that corruption in this, and such big
[00:03:35] scandals, if we were in another regime,
[00:03:38] would be talked about for weeks and occupy the agenda very seriously.
[00:03:42] Now you're talking about 1 million people. 1 million people means
[00:03:46] millions of people, including their families and those
[00:03:49] who are victims of the injustice they touched.
[00:03:52] So it's not just 1 million people.
[00:03:55] The figures mentioned here
[00:03:59] are large. In a place
[00:04:02] where money several times the amount of leading banks
[00:04:06] in Turkey is circulating, what will people think?
[00:04:10] People will see corruption here,
[00:04:13] and the person at the helm
[00:04:17] expressed this a year ago. He named it,
[00:04:20] that there was corruption here, that there was manipulation.
[00:04:23] He directly expressed this,
[00:04:27] elections, and I think the CHP put it into words. When this exploded
[00:04:30] a year later, it is clear
[00:04:34] that people who believed
[00:04:36] that things were going wrong in the economy
[00:04:39] will question this very seriously.
[00:04:43] That is, you are talking about
[00:04:46] absolute and then making corruption allegations
[00:04:50] about municipalities, but the figures
[00:04:54] mentioned there, most of which are unconfirmed hearsay,
[00:04:57] are very clear here. There are institutions,
[00:05:01] official institutions, and a very big
[00:05:04] scheme revolving around the stock exchange, which is an official institution,
[00:05:08] is emerging here. So,
[00:05:11] your search for legitimacy in all these operations
[00:05:15] is completely in vain. In this sense, this is a very
[00:05:18] important issue, a very important
[00:05:22] phenomenon. Therefore,
[00:05:26] this will of course cause a very serious wound
[00:05:29] to the government, meaning the people's future, but this will be limited
[00:05:33] for now, because as I said, the ruling party,
[00:05:36] the government, the regime is acting with a very narrow
[00:05:40] segment of society that has integrated with the party-state.
[00:05:44] There will not be a big erosion there, because they have tied
[00:05:47] themselves, their lives, and their future to it.
[00:05:50] But for those who are left out, those who cannot benefit from this,
[00:05:53] those who feel that they have been wronged, who say, "We supported this,
[00:05:57] but we don't see much from it anymore, this is harming us," for these people,
[00:06:01] this will be a very big corruption
[00:06:04] that they will identify with the government.
[00:06:07] So there will be a cost. Yes, now here
[00:06:10] some actors are taking the side
[00:06:14] of the government. I'm not referring to all of them,
[00:06:17] of course, but on the one hand, regarding how they did
[00:06:20] their work, I don't know, he says "national stance"
[00:06:24] and so on, he says "we will continue this," but now he can also be the subject
[00:06:27] of such an investigation, and such a situation
[00:06:30] regarding the company he is responsible for is emerging.
[00:06:34] Fikret Abi, you have experience
[00:06:38] regarding how the state operates and how audits are carried out.
[00:06:41] You have such a thing in your career's past,
[00:06:45] after all. How did you see this event? Where did this
[00:06:48] explode from? Yes, Gökben,
[00:06:51] let me tell you this right away. I agree with Ramazan Bey's views.
[00:06:55] As a former auditor, these companies
[00:06:58] should be seized quickly, a trustee should be appointed
[00:07:01] to their management, and the assets of the company owners
[00:07:05] should also be seized. If they have any assets or if the companies
[00:07:09] have any assets, they should be seized and a very thorough audit
[00:07:12] should be conducted. The money
[00:07:16] that was defrauded here, which seems to be a very high amount,
[00:07:19] needs to be tracked. Where is this money?
[00:07:23] Was it converted into real estate, smuggled abroad,
[00:07:26] or transferred to accounts of others? We need to look into this.
[00:07:29] Now, 17 billion dollars is a very high
[00:07:33] value. Many well-known holdings today
[00:07:37] do not even have this much value.
[00:07:40] We are talking about a very high amount of money.
[00:07:43] I think we are facing a very big fraud case.
[00:07:47] An organized fraud has been committed, and 1 million
[00:07:50] of our citizens,
[00:07:54] Fikret Abi, if we consider the families
[00:07:57] of these individuals, it is understood that we are facing a large
[00:08:01] fraud case concerning at least 4-5 million people.
[00:08:03] Of course, a very strict audit should be conducted
[00:08:07] on the public side as well. Normally,
[00:08:11] it can be thought that the people
[00:08:14] whose job it is to carry out these audits
[00:08:16] have neglected their duties, or
[00:08:19] that they may be facing
[00:08:22] cases of not fulfilling their duties or abusing their authority.
[00:08:26] Public officials involved in this incident
[00:08:29] should also be subjected to strict auditing.
[00:08:33] Now, to cover this citizen's loss entirely
[00:08:36] from the treasury would also create injustice,
[00:08:40] because it would harm
[00:08:43] the citizen, who is a taxpayer and has nothing
[00:08:47] to do with this, if this loss were covered
[00:08:49] from the taxes they pay. Therefore,
[00:08:53] I think these companies' financial means
[00:08:56] should be examined, and the state,
[00:09:00] by appointing a trustee,
[00:09:03] should convert them into cash and cover the losses of the affected citizens
[00:09:06] as much as possible. That is, it is normal
[00:09:10] to invest in the stock market.
[00:09:13] The shares you buy gain value,
[00:09:16] you sell them, you earn, they lose value, you lose money.
[00:09:20] These are normal developments, but here,
[00:09:23] a truly organized crime is seen.
[00:09:26] That is, we need to look at the content of the companies.
[00:09:30] It is understood that there are very few employees. We also need to look at
[00:09:33] what business these companies,
[00:09:37] which have reached such large amounts, are doing.
[00:09:40] When you put these forward,
[00:09:43] all the financial power
[00:09:45] that can emerge should be paid
[00:09:48] to the citizens to a certain extent. I don't know how much it will cover,
[00:09:52] I don't know how many assets they have, but this is important:
[00:09:55] where did the money they defrauded go?
[00:09:58] The trace of the money must also be followed. The state's
[00:10:01] duty of auditing and monitoring
[00:10:05] should be like this, I think. If there are
[00:10:08] public officials in the CMB and BRSA
[00:10:11] who have neglected their duties or abused their authority,
[00:10:15] an investigation should definitely be launched
[00:10:18] against them. As Ms. Figen
[00:10:21] mentioned, this incident has a criminal dimension, a prosecutorial
[00:10:25] dimension, and progress should be made
[00:10:28] in that direction, and lawsuits should be filed against
[00:10:31] these people. Now, the statement made by the company owner
[00:10:34] is somewhat like a message to the government, saying, "We are domestic
[00:10:37] and national, we love and support the President,"
[00:10:41] implying that they are asking the government to protect them. There is such a message.
[00:10:45] Of course, such protection is absolutely out of the question
[00:10:48] and should not be. This must be taken
[00:10:51] into account. This is a major fraud case.
[00:10:54] We understand it this way. This incident
[00:10:57] must be subjected to a very strict and thorough audit by expert
[00:11:00] auditors and inspectors. The facts must be brought to light,
[00:11:03] and there must definitely be criminal liability for this,
[00:11:07] I think, Gökmen. Ramazan Bey,
[00:11:11] what do you say in light of what has been said? Well,
[00:11:14] I fully agree with Fikret Bey. This domestic and national,
[00:11:17] meaning the group in question often uses those
[00:11:21] words. That is,
[00:11:25] patriotism, flag, call to prayer,
[00:11:28] domestic and national are the words most frequently used by the investors
[00:11:31] in question. Let me explain
[00:11:34] how domestic and national, how patriotic they are with a very concrete example
[00:11:38] to our audience. Let them appreciate it.
[00:11:42] Professor Ramazan, we always pay attention
[00:11:44] to this, don't we? Right now, we are talking about
[00:11:48] the details of an investigation that has been made public.
[00:11:51] So, is what you are going to say something
[00:11:55] that would give an extra right of reply
[00:11:58] to any person or company? No, that's not it.
[00:12:01] I will give an example
[00:12:04] from an indictment dated 2021. Okay, okay.
[00:12:07] So it's something that's in the indictment.
[00:12:11] In an indictment dated 2021 prepared by the Bakırköy Chief Public Prosecutor's Office,
[00:12:14] it states that Kasım Garipoğlu's
[00:12:17] GKFX, an illegally operating company
[00:12:21] without a license. This group in question,
[00:12:25] two criminal groups,
[00:12:29] one of these criminal groups' owner is currently
[00:12:33] imprisoned for money laundering and other crimes
[00:12:36] with indictments prepared by the Ankara West and Istanbul Chief Public Prosecutor's Offices.
[00:12:40] The other partner
[00:12:43] is criminal due to the FETO investigation. And this
[00:12:46] group brought and took
[00:12:50] 350 million dollars in bags and suitcases
[00:12:54] to this GKFX. This is mentioned
[00:12:57] in the indictment. This indictment
[00:13:00] mentions a figure of 350 million dollars that could be detected,
[00:13:03] meaning a minimum of 350 million dollars went back and forth
[00:13:07] in bags and suitcases. Therefore,
[00:13:10] when it comes to patriotism and so on,
[00:13:14] I leave this to our audience's discretion.
[00:13:17] So he conveyed a point in the indictment.
[00:13:21] Now, Professor Murat, the possibility of this
[00:13:24] spreading scares people, because as people get more scared,
[00:13:27] then, I mean,
[00:13:31] withdrawal from the stock market will accelerate, and this will trigger each other. There are such risks, aren't there?
[00:13:34] This work? don't vote for me.
[00:13:38] it's such a thing that at its core, people are really
[00:13:41] getting poorer and trying to protect their money against inflation
[00:13:45] by turning to very speculative instruments. So,
[00:13:49] if you notice, people are constantly getting scammed in cryptocurrencies,
[00:13:52] then they run away, then they get scammed in gold.
[00:13:56] They come from there, and here they get scammed too. Some viewers also wrote,
[00:14:00] for example, "I get this much return, I get 40% on my deposit."
[00:14:04] You get 40% monthly, brother, didn't you suspect something is wrong?
[00:14:07] And it really is like that. Now, here, especially, Doğan
[00:14:11] mentioned "party-state" earlier, and we all use it constantly,
[00:14:14] the perception of a party-state. That is, I had discussed this with one of my students,
[00:14:18] because, as I said, for a long time,
[00:14:22] the entry of these funds and the skyrocketing
[00:14:33] value of these stocks was a common thing. Everyone knew about it and was following it. While talking to someone, one of the students was saying
[00:14:36] that he was following these and making a lot of money from them. I said, "Look out, but
[00:14:40] this will explode." He said, "These guys are very close to the government, professor, nothing will happen
[00:14:44] to them." Now, the issue stems from here, because there is no
[00:14:48] possibility of nothing happening to this. You see,
[00:14:51] the connection between the stock's real value
[00:14:55] and its market value was already broken a long time ago.
[00:14:59] The shares offered to the market a year or two ago, these companies' shares
[00:15:02] offered at 50 liras, have reached 4,000 liras.
[00:15:06] The CMB audits this and says this is the fair price.
[00:15:09] It is offered at a price accordingly, and the company owner
[00:15:12] accepts this price. A share offered at 50 liras
[00:15:16] has reached 4,000 liras within a year. There is nothing to suspect about this.
[00:15:20] Everyone knows that there is something strange
[00:15:23] here. The issue is being able to jump
[00:15:27] off the train before it crashes, as the brakes are not working.
[00:15:29] The train can jump from the train before
[00:15:33] hitting somewhere. And before that, being able to travel as much distance
[00:15:37] as possible. This is the investor's quest,
[00:15:40] behavior here. After this, we will see people being scammed
[00:15:44] somewhere else in a short while. This is unfortunately
[00:15:47] a behavior pattern suitable for this period.
[00:15:50] However, there are serious negligences of the public authority here.
[00:15:54] For example, despite Minister Mehmet Şimşek's warning about market manipulation,
[00:15:58] the failure to take necessary measures starts here,
[00:16:02] and then it goes on sequentially. "How did you ignore
[00:16:05] a problem that everyone knew about
[00:16:08] until now? These funds,
[00:16:11] the formation of these funds is allowed, these funds are followed,
[00:16:15] the assets they hold in their portfolios
[00:16:18] are known to everyone. You know that there is a problem
[00:16:22] with these assets. You take measures regarding
[00:16:25] these assets, because
[00:16:28] some of them have block transfers, which already raises suspicion,
[00:16:32] but you don't get to the root of it, you don't seize the funds,
[00:16:35] therefore..." "Is there a void
[00:16:39] in public authority here? This also needs to be discussed.
[00:16:42] But beyond that, as I said,
[00:16:45] the spirit of this era is like this. People unfortunately
[00:16:49] cannot meet their vital
[00:16:53] needs, their living
[00:16:55] needs with their wages, so they try
[00:16:58] to create instruments and opportunities
[00:17:01] to support this from the side. And if it's not one,
[00:17:05] they get scammed in another. So?"
[00:17:07] Mr. Ramazan, I asked Professor Murat as an economist
[00:17:11] about this issue, but you also said in your previous
[00:17:15] comment that there is a possibility of it spreading further.
[00:17:18] Now, the possibility of it spreading can lead to a very nightmarish
[00:17:21] scenario, which we never wish for, because we know these things.
[00:17:24] That is, when suspicion in a system
[00:17:28] increases, those who flee from it increase.
[00:17:32] As those who flee increase, that system collapses,
[00:17:35] it collapses even more,
[00:17:45] and the Wealth Fund intervened and tried to separate
[00:17:49] the stock market from those problematic stocks
[00:17:53] by buying important index
[00:17:56] had not been taken, we would have experienced a much more catastrophic
[00:18:00] day. But will this loss of confidence permeate again over time
[00:18:03] and pull the index down? We will all
[00:18:07] see that. But the recovery today was backed
[00:18:11] by the purchases of the Wealth Fund and public banks.
[00:18:15] Today, it probably closed at 13,500
[00:18:18] from levels like 13,100, yes.
[00:18:21] Whereas some people were making comments
[00:18:25] that it could fall to 12,500 or even 11,000
[00:18:29] in terms of technical support levels and so on.
[00:18:32] But we don't know if it will happen again, if public banks bought their own shares,
[00:18:36] what happened, Professor?
[00:18:45] There are stocks, and by buying these stocks, you raise the index. Otherwise,
[00:18:49] nothing changes regarding the problematic stocks I mentioned.
[00:18:52] They are falling sharply, and probably
[00:18:56] we will see them continuing to fall sharply in the coming days. As I said, a stock that came out at 50 liras
[00:19:00] and reached 4,000 liras in a year,
[00:19:03] will fall sharply even more. To find its original
[00:19:07] value, what does it mean to fall sharply? It means that when the stock market opens, for example,
[00:19:11] at 10%
[00:19:13] lower value, there are only sellers.
[00:19:17] If there was no such waterfall in the American stock market,
[00:19:20] because we have this sharp fall application, if it were in the American stock market,
[00:19:24] we would probably see it reaching 10% or so
[00:19:28] in one day. That is,
[00:19:30] yes, Mr. Ramazan,
[00:19:34] we will say goodbye to you. Do you have any final warning for us regarding this issue?
[00:19:41] I mean, at this point, you're saying
[00:19:45] that the authority should act decisively, right? Or Mr. Ramazan,
[00:19:48] you're saying what should I say at this point?
[00:19:51] Or, I mean, at this point, after so much damage
[00:19:54] has been done, the only thing that can be said
[00:19:57] is that the investigation,
[00:20:01] the launched investigation, must go to the end, and if there are culprits,
[00:20:04] they must be brought to justice, and no one should
[00:20:08] attempt to commit such crimes again.
[00:20:11] This environment must be created. Plus,
[00:20:14] I am sure these people have
[00:20:18] significant assets both abroad and domestically,
[00:20:22] and they have also smuggled significant assets abroad.
[00:20:25] MASAK must intervene decisively.
[00:20:28] These mechanisms exist, these powers exist right now.
[00:20:32] MASAK is also a financial intelligence
[00:20:35] unit, and it is a member of the Egmont
[00:20:38] Group, to which 193 countries are members. Therefore, it can obtain any information
[00:20:42] it wants from the relevant country. Therefore,
[00:20:45] urgent action needs to be taken regarding these individuals' domestic
[00:20:49] assets, monetary and other assets, as well as their foreign
[00:20:51] assets. An investigation must be conducted urgently.
[00:20:55] You emphasize the urgency very often, Professor Ramazan. Why?
[00:20:59] Because the money can escape.
[00:21:02] Monetary things, right? They can be linked to crypto, etc.
[00:21:06] When a button is pressed, money can change two or three
[00:21:10] countries in 10-15 minutes. Real estate transfers can occur,
[00:21:14] and securities can be sold,
[00:21:17] smuggled as liquid assets, or linked to cryptocurrencies.
[00:21:20] I consider this important, because there is a significant
[00:21:24] loss right now, and unfortunately, the possibility of this loss increasing
[00:21:28] is very high, dependent on
[00:21:31] stocks and other securities that lose value every day. Now, who
[00:21:35] will cover this? We don't want this to be covered
[00:21:39] from the treasury. That is, no
[00:21:42] taxpayer, no taxpayer who has not entered
[00:21:45] these businesses, would want them to be financed with their taxes. None
[00:21:48] of us would want that. In that regard, at least
[00:21:52] to cover a certain part or all of this loss,
[00:21:55] I don't know, these people
[00:21:58] must have parked the hundreds of billions of liras of rent
[00:22:02] they created somewhere, either abroad or domestically, or both.
[00:22:05] Therefore, if swift action
[00:22:09] can be taken in this regard, these assets
[00:22:12] can be seized and used
[00:22:15] to cover the potential losses of citizens.
[00:22:18] Okay, Dr. Ramazan
[00:22:22] Başak, former Deputy Chairman of MASAK, Mr. Ramazan,
[00:22:24] thank you for your contribution. Thank you.
[00:22:28] Good broadcast. Greetings to everyone, good evening.
[00:22:31] Thank you. Well,
[00:22:34] I hope this situation recovers soon, because it's against people's interests. But
[00:22:38] on the other hand, if there is an investigation, it should be carried out with full effectiveness.
[00:22:41] There are new appointments in the Official Gazette.
[00:22:45] As you know, there are new appointments
[00:22:47] in the Official Gazette at this hour.
[00:22:59] 69 personnel changes were made in the Central
[00:23:02] and Provincial Organizations of the General Directorate of Security.
[00:23:04] The police chiefs of 24 provinces
[00:23:08] were brought to the center. The police chiefs
[00:23:11] of 24 provinces were brought to the center.
[00:23:14] 23 police chief inspectors
[00:23:17] became police chiefs. 23 police
[00:23:20] chief inspectors became police chiefs. Fikret Abi,
[00:23:23] 24 provincial police chiefs being brought to the center is a significant number, isn't it?
[00:23:27] 24 provinces? Of course, a very important number,
[00:23:31] meaning it indicates that the government has a problem with the General Directorate of Security.
[00:23:34] 24 provinces is a very high number. It is understood that appointments
[00:23:38] to the others were made from the center. That is, we need to look into the situation
[00:23:42] regarding those police chiefs. That is,
[00:23:44] what is the reason for their dismissal? How many years have they been in that position?
[00:23:48] Are they successful or not? We need to look at the reasons
[00:23:52] why the government, the President, dismissed them.
[00:23:55] Yes.
[00:23:57] Now, once upon a time,
[00:23:59] a statement was very popular.
[00:24:02] When fuel prices were rising, that person said,
[00:24:05] "Well, I always buy 50 liras worth," as if it didn't affect him,
[00:24:08] "I always buy 50 liras worth." Now, unfortunately,
[00:24:11] a person can't buy anything for 50 liras. Diesel has become 100 liras,
[00:24:15] it has reached triple digits. That's not easy.
[00:24:19] I'm not talking about the last century, dear viewers. In a recent
[00:24:22] past, I mean, not very recent, but we were talking about this,
[00:24:26] that when there was volatility in foreign exchange, fuel...
[00:24:30] as the price was constantly rising, oh my god, we were talking about
[00:24:34] whether 1 liter of fuel would be 5 lira, meaning, we were saying, will we see this,
[00:24:37] we were talking about whether 1 liter of fuel would be 5 lira, brother, 1 liter of motor fuel is
[00:24:41] over 100 lira.
[00:24:45] Now, what is this, by the way, the new party communication
[00:24:47] also did a...
[00:24:50] shall I tell you about it, or have you also prepared it on the wall,
[00:24:54] my director? People are saying,
[00:24:57] okay, if they throw it, then I'll tell you,
[00:25:00] I won't spoil the surprise. Now let's look at the numbers here.
[00:25:04] 1 liter of diesel is 100 lira.
[00:25:08] Now, in Europe, there is an inflation rate. Here,
[00:25:11] in Turkey, the last announced inflation
[00:25:14] was 31.51, the previous one was 31.75.
[00:25:18] Our reference date is August 26. Again,
[00:25:21] August 26, look, the reference date is the same in all of them. Taking
[00:25:25] the same date as a reference, in Ukraine, it's 8.1, Murat hocam,
[00:25:29] I guess this country is not at war, is it? Yes,
[00:25:32] 8.1.
[00:25:34] Kosovo 7.3, Moldova 7, Russia 6.3, Romania
[00:25:38] 6.2, Lithuania 6, 5.6, Bulgaria, 5,
[00:25:41] 4.5, Montenegro, so in Europe, the inflation
[00:25:45] rates are: Belarus 4.5, Spain 4.3, Croatia
[00:25:48] 4.2, Belgium. Greece, you see, dear viewers, it goes down
[00:25:52] to 3, and all of them are inflation as of August 26. Ours
[00:25:56] is 31.51. Now, the last point
[00:26:00] the Justice and Development Party brought the country to.
[00:26:03] End of 2017, diesel was
[00:26:07] 5.10. 2017,
[00:26:10] that's 10 years ago, so this was easy, yes,
[00:26:14] wait,
[00:26:18] ago, you messed up all my arithmetic, Doğan hocam. End of
[00:26:21] 2021, diesel was
[00:26:24] 11.5. End of 2022, diesel was 22.10. End of 2023,
[00:26:28] 36.40. 43.20.
[00:26:31] 65. 100.
[00:26:34] Diesel, which was 5 lira in 2017, that is 9 years ago, is now 100
[00:26:38] lira, so it's 20 times.
[00:26:41] What is this, Murat hocam? I mean, when we put the table like this, it's very striking.
[00:26:45] Yes, let's also add another dimension.
[00:26:48] Now, diesel, in fact, is not used much
[00:26:51] in Europe because it is cheaper than gasoline.
[00:26:54] The reason for this is
[00:26:58] environmental regulations, so it is not preferred
[00:27:01] much. You need to refine it a lot,
[00:27:05] so it is also costly, but in our country, it is very
[00:27:08] heavy, that is, we use it a lot in individual cars,
[00:27:12] so our usage rate is much higher
[00:27:16] than European countries, it's very
[00:27:19] vital, because it is used in agriculture,
[00:27:22] construction materials, excavators, cranes, etc., run on
[00:27:26] diesel. That is, in terms of manufacturing, generators,
[00:27:29] all factory generators run on diesel. Transportation
[00:27:33] takes place with diesel, so the heart of the industry works
[00:27:37] like this. For America, there is no alternative here,
[00:27:40] it is critical for all of them. Now, what is interesting here is that
[00:27:44] we are experiencing all these problems because of Russia.
[00:27:47] As I mentioned in the first part earlier, our main
[00:27:51] diesel imports,
[00:27:53] a part of it, more than half of it, we actually
[00:27:57] refine domestically, so raw materials
[00:28:01] come and are processed in domestic
[00:28:04] refineries, mainly Tüpraş's
[00:28:07] and SOCAR's refineries. Diesel
[00:28:11] is produced in these, but the remaining
[00:28:14] deficit, 35-40%,
[00:28:18] a significant part of it, we were getting from Russia.
[00:28:21] When Russia's refineries
[00:28:25] were hit, Russia banned
[00:28:28] exports to the world, saying it would meet its own needs.
[00:28:50] Therefore, the diesel-gasoline
[00:28:53] gap in our country increased much more sharply compared
[00:28:56] to all other countries, and since we actually use
[00:29:00] more of it than other countries, we were affected much more
[00:29:04] severely. That is, its impact is much greater
[00:29:08] than its impact on all these countries. Why do I say this?
[00:29:11] We focus a lot on this monetary policy, but we actually
[00:29:14] have very big problems on the supply chain side.
[00:29:17] You shouldn't lean on one country so much.
[00:29:21] If you do, then first and foremost, this war, the Russia-Ukraine
[00:29:25] conflict, poses a much bigger, vital issue for you. You need to
[00:29:28] be in this process from start to finish.
[00:29:33] That is, Trump criticized this bombing process,
[00:29:36] but we didn't say a word, for example, while those refineries
[00:29:40] were being destroyed, even though
[00:29:41] this process affected
[00:29:44] This is directly related to Russia, but you see
[00:29:47] that in Russia it's 6%,
[00:29:50] and in your country it's 31. Yes, at the end of 75 days,
[00:29:54] this is not the only reason for inflation in our country,
[00:29:58] but it is an important dynamic, a significant dynamic for the recent
[00:30:01] inflation, because
[00:30:19] let's say, in a week, it will affect our tomato
[00:30:22] prices, cucumber prices, pepper
[00:30:25] prices, it's not just affecting one side, it's affecting
[00:30:29] transportation, and tractors.
[00:30:41] Also, the refineries that make fertilizer are gone,
[00:30:44] so the natural gas refineries are also gone. Now,
[00:30:47] from time to time,
[00:30:50] the government makes certain comparisons to show its situation
[00:30:54] as better, saying things like, "Actually, it's more expensive in Europe,"
[00:30:57] do you know? This fuel and so on, there, they convert it from euros
[00:31:01] to TL, etc. Yes, for example, Murat hocam,
[00:31:05] would such a comparison be normal? In our 9th visual,
[00:31:09] diesel prices in Europe.
[00:31:12] Approximate minimum wages in Europe. Yes,
[00:31:15] then, how many liters
[00:31:19] of diesel can be bought with these
[00:31:21] wages? Can we make such a comparison? Of course we can. For example, in Germany,
[00:31:24] it's 2.37 euros, 133 lira.
[00:31:28] Yes, for example, they say "133 lira" and then say,
[00:31:31] "Look, diesel is more expensive in Germany." They say, "Don't
[00:31:35] do that, it's 100 lira here," but
[00:31:37] in Germany, the minimum wage
[00:31:39] is 2,343 euros. 2,343
[00:31:43] euros. Therefore, with the minimum wage
[00:31:47] in Germany, 988 liters of diesel can be bought.
[00:31:50] 988 liters. In France,
[00:31:53] the liter price of diesel is 2.31 euros, 130
[00:31:57] lira. This corresponds to that when you convert it to TL.
[00:32:00] But in France, the minimum wage is 1,867
[00:32:03] euros. And with that minimum wage, 808
[00:32:07] liters of diesel can be bought. Let's
[00:32:10] not compare it to England, Austria, and these, but here,
[00:32:13] there isn't really a country that you would find closer to us,
[00:32:16] if there were Bulgaria or something like that,
[00:32:20] this is the situation in these places. When you
[00:32:22] take the average, when you take the average, the average
[00:32:26] diesel price in Europe is 2.31. When you do a rough average
[00:32:29] calculation, the average minimum wage is 2,360
[00:32:33] euros. The amount of diesel that can be bought with the minimum wage
[00:32:37] is an average of 1023 liters. So,
[00:32:40] what is the amount of diesel bought with the minimum wage in Turkey?
[00:32:43] The average diesel price in Turkey is currently 100 lira. The minimum wage
[00:32:47] is 28,075. The amount of diesel that can be bought with the minimum wage
[00:32:49] is 281 liters. Real comparisons are made with things
[00:32:53] like this, right, Murat hocam? So, if, let's say,
[00:32:57] 100 liters of diesel can be bought with the minimum wage there,
[00:33:00] and 280 liters
[00:33:01] of diesel can be bought
[00:33:05] Gökmen Bey, these discussions are made
[00:33:08] a lot. The government side, if it finds a calculation in its favor,
[00:33:12] tries to use it, but the proof of
[00:33:15] this is that, from your country, look,
[00:33:19] even in the hardest times, when migrants were crossing
[00:33:22] from here to Europe in boats, one boat would set off,
[00:33:26] half of them would be citizens of the Republic of Turkey.
[00:33:29] That is, even in that period, more Turkish
[00:33:33] people than Syrians
[00:33:36] were trying to flee. If people from here, our children,
[00:33:39] our youth, our students, are going to European
[00:33:42] countries in search of a future,
[00:33:46] then the purchasing power
[00:33:49] can also check this with these. There is a very
[00:33:52] big gap, and there has been a sharp
[00:33:56] decline in our purchasing power, especially recently.
[00:33:59] Was Turkey always this bad? It was bad, it was always
[00:34:03] behind Europe, but recently we are experiencing
[00:34:07] a very sharp deterioration. And there is a reason for this.
[00:34:11] What was the reason? The reason was the policies implemented
[00:34:15] by Erdoğan as the AKP warmed up
[00:34:18] to the previous elections. People warned at that time,
[00:34:21] they said, "Brother, these policies will have very heavy consequences.
[00:34:25] You are now burdening the workers with the inflation
[00:34:29] you created, and then to reduce this inflation, you will make
[00:34:33] the wage-earning sector pay for it, you will cut the bill for them."
[00:34:37] Exactly what we said happened. First, he escalated inflation,
[00:34:40] made people pay a price there, and then by stopping
[00:34:43] wage increases in the face of that inflation,
[00:34:47] because he said he would make wage increases according to
[00:34:50] the expected inflation, he reduced it to once a year.
[00:34:53] Very large losses began to be experienced within the year.
[00:34:56] The purchasing power of the minimum wage is at rock bottom.
[00:35:00] The DISK announced last year that
[00:35:03] it has lost approximately 6.something thousand lira in real value.
[00:35:07] So you can look at the minimum wage as 21,000, not 28,000.
[00:35:11] Of course, what I want to emphasize here
[00:35:15] is that Turkey was never better than these countries,
[00:35:18] maybe Italy is debatable, there
[00:35:21] have been times when we were better than them. But
[00:35:24] Turkey is experiencing a very serious impoverishment
[00:35:28] and deprivation within itself.
[00:35:30] The global conjuncture is not on the side of the government
[00:35:34] right now. In the global conjuncture, it may seem
[00:35:37] that we have made strategic moves and become involved
[00:35:41] in the game in certain places, but especially in terms of
[00:35:45] supply security and economic prosperity, the developments
[00:35:49] in our region pose a very serious threat.
[00:35:51] And this is one of them, and it does not seem very
[00:35:55] likely to change in the short term, as I said. Look,
[00:35:58] this will also hit Trump very hard
[00:36:02] in the near future, because the citizens there are very sensitive
[00:36:05] to this.
[00:36:08] His most important concern is that he warns, "What are you doing
[00:36:11] in Ukraine? Don't go there, don't hit the refinery." But you
[00:36:15] started by building it yourself in Iran. In the same way,
[00:36:18] Ukraine also took the message from there and moved
[00:36:21] on Russia's refineries,
[00:36:24] as if they also didn't calculate this correctly
[00:36:28] at the time, because if such an order had been given to
[00:36:31] Ukraine, those drones wouldn't have gone to the refineries.
[00:36:34] In the next year, year and a half, these prices don't seem
[00:36:37] to be returning to where they started easily.
[00:36:40] It doesn't seem like it. The professor said
[00:36:44] that the global conjuncture is not in favor of the government.
[00:36:47] He mentioned Trump. The Trump-Erdoğan meeting will take place.
[00:36:50] Yes, the news is in that direction. Erdoğan
[00:36:54] went to New York for the United Nations General Assembly.
[00:36:58] It is said that this meeting will take place. The announcement
[00:37:01] was made by the American Ambassador Tom Bararak. Yes,
[00:37:03] that is,
[00:37:05] now,
[00:37:09] our Halk TV reporter, Halk TV reporter
[00:37:13] Serra Karaçam, conveyed to us that this
[00:37:16] is not yet a finalized thing, she said. It
[00:37:20] has not been announced as a program. She hasn't reached a finalized
[00:37:23] program like this, but Tom Bararak said that Erdoğan
[00:37:30] is in New York, but on the other hand, Trump has a midterm election in November,
[00:37:33] and things might not be going well for him.
[00:37:36] Firstly, why is it important for Erdoğan to meet
[00:37:39] with Trump? Because it seems that the government
[00:37:43] is making an effort for this, isn't it? It is understood.
[00:37:47] they met in May at the NATO summit.
[00:37:51] Now, first, why is it important to meet with Trump?
[00:37:54] Secondly, after meeting with Trump, and after some discussions,
[00:37:58] operations towards Istanbul Municipality or other operations accelerated.
[00:38:01] Will such things happen again? Can such things happen?
[00:38:04] Thirdly, if Trump takes a very bad hit
[00:38:06] in the midterm elections in November, will this have an impact on the world and Turkey?
[00:38:10] Good. So,
[00:38:14] there is an internal
[00:38:17] pressure. People are informed about this,
[00:38:20] they read, they watch.
[00:38:24] It is said that Trump, the great leader
[00:38:28] of the world, came to Ankara for Erdoğan at the NATO summit.
[00:38:32] Trump also made such statements, saying, "Actually, I wasn't
[00:38:35] going to come, but I love my relations with Erdoğan,
[00:38:39] he is a skillful person, etc." He came. Meanwhile, Bararak
[00:38:43] said at the time, "This government needs legitimacy,
[00:38:46] and we will provide it to them" in various contexts. Of course,
[00:38:50] here, it is claimed that Turkey
[00:38:53] is a great state, and its leader conducts a very
[00:38:57] serious political agenda.
[00:39:01] And there is some truth to this. In the foreign
[00:39:05] press, this is more about the "tough guy
[00:39:09] duet" they talk about, where tough
[00:39:11] men meet beyond institutional
[00:39:15] relations, and try to establish
[00:39:18] a policy. Therefore, there are statements
[00:39:22] that this alliance is risky, as the spokespersons
[00:39:25] of the establishment, bypassing institutions, are pursuing
[00:39:28] personal and unpredictable policies.
[00:39:32] In the foreign press, there are such
[00:39:35] statements. In Turkey, this is presented as a show of strength,
[00:39:38] it has importance in domestic politics. That is, there is a claim
[00:39:42] that we have a personal dialogue with the superpower of the world
[00:39:45] to an extent that other leaders do not. Why is this being done?
[00:39:49] On the one hand, of course, one of the most important issues
[00:39:53] is that since the Syrian crisis and the S400 crisis.
[00:40:36] This is also much more uncertain, whereas today, if you read
[00:40:40] the pro-government press and so on, it seems
[00:40:43] that these problems can be resolved,
[00:40:46] you read something about them being resolved. Again,
[00:40:50] in Turkey, during these discussions with Trump,
[00:40:53] it is said how Turkey is a game-changer, a guarantor of peace
[00:40:57] in Syria. It is also said that it directs
[00:41:00] policies in the Middle East and so on. However, those looking at Turkey
[00:41:04] from abroad see that Turkey is trying to act autonomously,
[00:41:07] and although not very successful in this, it is trying.
[00:41:10] And in this sense, there are discourses about whether
[00:41:14] it has deviated from the Western axis. This dialogue with Trump
[00:41:18] also does not serve
[00:41:21] to alleviate this, because Trump also has an unpredictable
[00:41:25] rhetoric and policies.
[00:41:40] This is important for domestic politics, it is completely
[00:41:43] an image refresh. Whereas
[00:41:46] what is seen more, as Serra also reported
[00:41:50] from there, is that there is no clear
[00:41:53] timetable. I think it will probably
[00:41:56] happen. It's not finalized. I think it will probably
[00:42:00] be that way. That is, just as Trump came to Ankara
[00:42:03] for the NATO summit, and a picture was created
[00:42:06] that surpassed other leaders
[00:42:23] actually,
[00:42:27] it's a situation where two leaders prioritize their own relations
[00:42:31] for their own interests, but both leaders
[00:42:34] are in serious alert regarding future
[00:42:38] elections, facing difficulties.
[00:43:10] ... clashes and so on, if there hadn't been this Iranian
[00:43:13] intervention, if there hadn't been an intervention that Israel
[00:43:17] somehow dragged Trump into, Trump's position
[00:43:20] could have been much more favorable,
[00:43:23] could have been better. Currently, his position
[00:43:26] is actually more difficult more difficult.
[00:43:30] will things get harder for Erdoğan in Turkey, for the AKP
[00:43:33] government? Let me put it this way, it won't get as hard
[00:43:37] as the opposition expects.
[00:43:39] Trump will have a little more time,
[00:43:43] he will be much more crippled, that is, if he loses power,
[00:43:46] if he loses the elections, he will be in a weaker position
[00:43:50] within the American establishment and political system,
[00:43:53] and he will lose power against an alternative
[00:43:57] in a way that has no future. However,
[00:44:00] Erdoğan was also in power with Democrats
[00:44:03] for a very long time, so can there be a tremendous
[00:44:07] transformation of the government?
[00:44:16] By the way, let's not forget that this is the US,
[00:44:19] the country we are talking about is not Turkey. So,
[00:44:23] in that last period, Trump is leaving, there's no question
[00:44:27] Murat hocam also tried not to leave. Some people in America
[00:44:30] even argued that Trump should run again. Of course, he also says,
[00:44:34] "Why not?" and so on, but no, Trump is leaving. What is important
[00:44:38] here is that if bureaucracy sees such a possibility
[00:44:41] of a break, there might be a dissolution.
[00:44:45] Because foreign policy cannot be tied down. Foreign
[00:44:48] policy will continue to be policy. The Republican Party will
[00:44:52] have a claim in the next election, no matter what,
[00:44:55] perhaps with a new candidate. They will maintain this claim,
[00:44:58] but will Trump's line in foreign policy be maintained
[00:45:01] until now? That's what's important. Yes, well, finally, let's hear
[00:45:05] Fikret Abi's comment and end the program. Fikret Abi, what do you say?
[00:45:09] Gökmen. Fikret Abi has announced the new party's donation balance
[00:45:12] sheet. In 50 days, 561
[00:45:15] million, 63 million TL. So,
[00:45:19] 500, 561,63,000.
[00:45:23] Yes, it's an important resource.
[00:45:26] This also shows the support given by the citizens
[00:45:30] to the new party, the interest shown to the new party.
[00:45:34] It has reached an important amount. This is one
[00:45:37] of the most concrete indicators that the citizens
[00:45:40] truly support the new party.
[00:45:43] These donations, so it means that
[00:45:46] the activities of the new party will not be negatively affected
[00:45:50] because it will be paid regularly and it has been deprived
[00:45:54] of treasury aid. Now, Trump's and Erdoğan's
[00:45:57] one-on-one meetings have always been widely covered
[00:46:01] in our press, because for Mr. Erdoğan,
[00:46:05] it serves to further strengthen
[00:46:07] his image as a strong leader in the domestic public opinion.
[00:46:11] For Trump, maintaining good relations with Erdoğan
[00:46:15] stems from the expectation that Turkey will support
[00:46:18] his Middle East policy, or at least
[00:46:21] not hinder it. That is,
[00:46:24] in Syria, as you know,
[00:46:28] it has become a two-region state. Turkey is disturbed
[00:46:31] by this. The terrorist organization
[00:46:35] coming to the border and settling there,
[00:46:38] now with this operation, the fact that Turkey has actually
[00:46:42] practically established a state right south
[00:46:45] of it, and plans to extend this to the Mediterranean,
[00:46:48] these US and Israel
[00:46:51] actually disturb Turkey. The interest shown
[00:46:55] in Erdoğan right now is also to prevent him
[00:46:58] from intervening in this process, to prevent Turkey
[00:47:02] from intervening in the developments in Syria after
[00:47:05] Iraq. I evaluate these as approaches
[00:47:09] aimed at preventing intervention, Gökmen. Okay, Fikret Abi, thank
[00:47:13] you very much. I thank you. Good night. Yes, political
[00:47:16] scientist Associate Professor Doctor Doğan Çetinkaya is with us.
[00:47:20] Economist
[00:47:22] Professor Doctor Murat Birdal is with us. Murat hocam, thank you very much.
[00:47:26] I thank you. You worked hard. We thank you very much,
[00:47:30] dear viewers.
[00:48:05] Go to which credit, compare the rates of different banks,
[00:48:09] calculate the interest income, and open your account
[00:48:12] without going to the branch.
[00:48:14] A new adventure, the woman who sold her car.
[00:48:18] Alone against those who give advice. with my car.
[00:48:35] 100 interest-free cash opportunities in Hesapta. Go to hesap.com
[00:48:38] and don't miss the banks' 0% interest cash opportunities
[00:48:41] up to 100,000 lira. Hesap
[00:48:43] is simple.
[00:48:52] To make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
[00:48:55] to show the unseen.
[00:48:56] göstermek,
[00:49:06] From the street to politics, from the market to the markets,
[00:49:09] from street stalls to large supermarkets.
[00:49:12] yaplarıne.
[00:49:23] We will be together here in this studio every weekday
[00:49:27] morning from 7 to 10, as Turkey wakes up.
[00:49:53] Good evening, I'm Gökmen Karada, welcome to Açıkça, dear viewers.
[00:49:57] Why is the phrase "early election" constantly repeated?
[00:50:01] Especially after Erdoğan recently said, "Hopefully,
[00:50:05] we will overcome these upcoming elections."
[00:50:07] An individual from the government wing, from the palace,
[00:50:11] mentions an early election, saying Erdoğan's candidacy
[00:50:15] means he will be president for the last time. A columnist from
[00:50:18] the pro-government media says this. Another says,
[00:50:21] "Let there be an early election and even announce it now
[00:50:25] to relieve Turkey." That is, let the parliament decide
[00:50:29] now that there will be an early election on such and such a date.
[00:50:32] Why has "early election, early election, early election"
[00:50:36] been mentioned for so many days? What is happening? We will
[00:50:39] try to decipher these codes tonight on Açıkça. We will start
[00:50:43] with this topic, of course. We will have many more topics.
[00:50:46] Fikret Bilayev, Fikret Abi.
[00:50:48] Hello. I wish you good broadcasts.
[00:50:52] I extend my greetings and love to our guests. Thank you.
[00:50:56] New Party MP Sezgin Tanrıkulu is with us via remote connection.
[00:51:00] Sezgin Bey, welcome. Thank you very
[00:51:02] much. Greetings and love from Diyarbakır. Thank you. Let's
[00:51:06] send our greetings to Diyarbakır. Who are we with in the studio?
[00:51:09] Ladies and gentlemen, political scientist Associate Professor Doctor
[00:51:13] hocam, welcome. Hello, good to see you. Economist Professor Doctor
[00:51:17] Murat Birdal is with us. Murat hocam, welcome. We will also
[00:51:20] discuss political issues with Murat hocam, but as you know,
[00:51:23] the markets have probably not seen such a big earthquake,
[00:51:26] such a big tremor in a long time. The fund market is in ruins.
[00:51:29] How many, 20 billion funds have exploded?
[00:51:33] People are in fear, wondering if it will continue
[00:51:36] and so on. What happened, what went wrong? There are very
[00:51:40] interesting developments there. We will evaluate
[00:51:42] them. And, of course, lawyer İsmail Emrettelci
[00:51:45] Good evening to everyone. The Istanbul Municipality trials
[00:51:49] all this agenda. we continue to follow them and a very
[00:51:53] striking event happened yesterday, a defendant in the dock
[00:51:56] cried, why did a defendant in the dock cry,
[00:51:59] in response to which question and what does this event mean
[00:52:03] for us in terms of the course of the IBB case... We will discuss all these, dear viewers, please also write
[00:52:07] to us from the active address on Twitter. Now, first,
[00:52:10] let me ask my friends for visual number 4,
[00:52:14] followed by visual number 1
[00:52:16] and visual number 5, that is, let's do this, I
[00:52:20] won't convey these one by one but let's lay them out,
[00:52:24] that is, what is this, early election, Erdoğan's candidacy, Erdoğan will be
[00:52:27] President for the last time, what is all this,
[00:52:30] then my guests can comment for me.
[00:52:35] "Let me take my glasses too, in case something goes wrong there, now President's
[00:52:39] chief advisor Mehmet Uçum said that he foresees the elections
[00:52:42] to be held on April 16, 2028, meaning this would actually
[00:52:46] be held in May, normally it's just a month earlier,
[00:52:49] date of our transition
[00:52:53] to the presidential system, he says,
[00:52:56] its anniversary. Mr. Recep Tayyip
[00:52:59] Erdoğan will be a candidate for the last time, it has a symbolic
[00:53:02] meaning. of history, and Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
[00:53:05] will be a candidate for the last time, says Mehmet Uçum.
[00:53:09] Before that, the statement of MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli
[00:53:12] drew attention: Mr. President completed
[00:53:16] two of the three crescent moons, he won the 2018
[00:53:18] and 2023 elections, now only the third
[00:53:21] of the three crescent moons remains, the third of the three crescent moons
[00:53:25] remains, hopefully he will complete the third one as well.
[00:53:28] Well, now these words send a message, I will ask my guests
[00:53:32] to interpret the details of that message. Let's also look at
[00:53:36] visual number 1, friends. Şamil Tayyar
[00:53:40] says in the tweet, you can check it, but we specifically
[00:53:43] highlighted these sections because we found them noteworthy
[00:53:47] regarding the topic we are currently discussing. He says
[00:53:50] a friend from the general headquarters predicted that the first round
[00:53:54] of the election would be on April 2nd and the second round on April 16th.
[00:53:57] Just now, Mehmet Uçum said April 16th, 2028.
[00:54:01] The first round on April 2nd, the second round on April 16th.
[00:54:05] Let the writing stay aside for a while, said Şamil Tayyar.
[00:54:08] What does a friend from the general headquarters
[00:54:11] say here? He says at this stage, I have a suggestion.
[00:54:15] I said it before, let me repeat it. Whatever the election date,
[00:54:18] it's beneficial to make the election decision
[00:54:22] now. Look, he says it should be made now. Şamil Tayyar suggests this.
[00:54:26] The election decision for April 18th, 1999 was made 9 months in advance.
[00:54:30] It can be done now too. Parties would continue their preparations accordingly.
[00:54:33] The concern about snap or early elections would disappear, the stress of politics
[00:54:36] would decrease, polemics would end, normalization would begin. He says
[00:54:40] it should be tried. Very interesting. He says this early election decision
[00:54:43] should be made now, Şamil Tayyar.
[00:54:46] Of course, on this matter, there was
[00:54:49] also a backstage news by Ayşe Sayın from BBC Turkish.
[00:54:53] There, this sentence is noteworthy, dear viewers: In AKP backstage circles,
[00:54:57] an election scenario that would pave the way for Erdoğan's re-candidacy
[00:55:00] and, within this scope, the option of making
[00:55:03] the election decision months in advance
[00:55:05] is being discussed. Look, in Ayşe Sayın's backstage news from BBC,
[00:55:09] it is being discussed that the election decision might be made much earlier
[00:55:13] in the upcoming period in the AKP. These must be pointing to something.
[00:55:16] These must be pointing to something. I will first turn
[00:55:20] to New Party MP Sezgin Tanrıkulu. Sezgin Bey, what do these indicate
[00:55:24] to you? Why
[00:55:25] have they intensified?
[00:55:29] First of all, let me state that there will be an election, either in 2027 or 2028.
[00:55:32] Now, the issue is this: it is necessary to focus
[00:55:35] on this: Can Mr. Erdoğan
[00:55:38] be a candidate for the third time?
[00:55:42] What are the conditions for his candidacy? And is an election held a week or
[00:55:45] a month before its normal time an early election as defined
[00:55:49] in the third paragraph of Article 116 of the Constitution or
[00:55:53] not? These need to be discussed. Now, Article 101
[00:55:56] of the Constitution very clearly limited the presidency
[00:56:00] to two terms of five years each,
[00:56:03] meaning a person can serve as president for a maximum
[00:56:07] of two terms of five years
[00:56:10] each. They cannot do so otherwise.
[00:56:14] The exception to this is shown in Article 16
[00:56:17] of the Constitution, paragraph three. If the parliament
[00:56:20] decides to renew the elections
[00:56:23] with a majority, that is,
[00:56:27] with 360 votes, that's what I mean by majority, as defined by the constitution,
[00:56:31] for an early election, then it can be
[00:56:37] nominated again, yes, it can be nominated again, it says.
[00:56:41] If the parliament decides to renew the election, of course, now Article 116
[00:56:45] of the constitution did not write such a special
[00:56:47] article because it assumed that the president or this parliament
[00:56:50] would not act against the constitution, against the purpose and spirit of the constitution.
[00:56:54] It did not write a special article like when is an early
[00:56:58] election, when is it not, is an election
[00:57:00] to be held in the last year an early election?
[00:57:04] but it is clear that the intention of the constitution
[00:57:08] maker, that is, the parliament, is this: with the renewal
[00:57:11] of the election, the intention of the phrase
[00:57:15] is this: we elected a president,
[00:57:17] then he ran for a second term, he was re-elected, but
[00:57:21] the parliamentary majority is not on his side,
[00:57:25] and the parliament convened, it decided
[00:57:28] to renew the elections in the first
[00:57:31] year of the term, and the president's term
[00:57:34] has expired, in this case, the president
[00:57:37] will have served not 5 + 5
[00:57:41] but 5 + 1 years, in order to prevent this,
[00:57:44] that is, in order to complete the 10-year term,
[00:57:48] the Constitution Maker intended that if such
[00:57:51] a decision was made at the beginning of the term or at the latest
[00:57:55] in the middle of the term, only then it could be called
[00:57:58] an early election and the president could
[00:58:00] be a candidate. In 2017,
[00:58:03] I was also a member of that parliament,
[00:58:07] and when this constitutional amendment was made, the discussions
[00:58:11] were also made in this way, that is, because it was foreseen
[00:58:14] that those who would apply the constitution, that is, the parliament, the president,
[00:58:18] the Supreme Election Council, or the Constitutional Court,
[00:58:22] would not act against the constitution, no special exception
[00:58:25] article was included here. That is, if elections
[00:58:28] are renewed in the last year,
[00:58:31] there was no special prohibition here saying that a president
[00:58:35] who has served two terms cannot run again.
[00:58:38] This does not mean that Mr. Erdoğan can be a candidate
[00:58:41] in an election held a week or a month earlier, but
[00:58:45] they are discussing this now. Therefore, in practice,
[00:58:48] the term of the presidency, which is not foreseen
[00:58:51] by the constitution, that is, the term rule,
[00:58:54] becomes three terms, that is, even though the constitution
[00:58:58] does not foresee this, they want to discuss these now
[00:59:02] and prevent it. In parliament, that is, the current
[00:59:05] factual reality is that this alliance
[00:59:09] has the possibility of reaching 360,
[00:59:12] the Justice and Development Party, the Nationalist Movement
[00:59:15] Party, and other political parties or deputies
[00:59:19] supporting them can reach 360. Therefore, they have an idea
[00:59:22] that Mr. Erdoğan can be a candidate again with a decision
[00:59:26] taken by the parliament a week,
[00:59:29] a month, or two months before the due time,
[00:59:32] but this
[00:59:35] is, in the end, if you ask any average
[00:59:38] constitutional lawyer or any generation,
[00:59:42] we can very easily state
[00:59:45] that the constitution does not foresee this,
[00:59:47] does not aim for this. The purpose of these discussions
[00:59:51] is this: they say, let this discussion be held now, let it end, and let it be prevented.
[00:59:55] That's the issue, that is, he is a candidate again,
[00:59:58] whatever you do, we have drawn other constitutional
[01:00:02] institutions into our political partnership, such as the Supreme Election Council,
[01:00:05] that is, in the end, the Supreme Election Council will decide
[01:00:09] on this, that is, whether he can be a candidate or not,
[01:00:12] they also have a foresight that these cannot decide
[01:00:15] otherwise, so they are having this discussion
[01:00:19] now, but an election will come
[01:00:22] before us, of course, you said they can find 360,
[01:00:25] there are 30 missing, yes, there, that is,
[01:00:29] AKP and MHP are not enough, how will they find them,
[01:00:33] that is, within this arithmetic of the parliament,
[01:00:36] that is, independent MPs, then with other political
[01:00:39] parties, I am stating a possible prediction
[01:00:42] that they can reach 360,
[01:00:45] that is, it's not impossible. They won't struggle or
[01:00:48] even if they struggle, they can reach
[01:00:52] a point of 360, I think, but now, Sezgin Bey
[01:00:56] says, of course, a year, look, but let me say this, Sezgin Bey,
[01:01:00] Sezgin Bey, let me ask you my question, please
[01:01:03] answer, convey your comment. The critical point
[01:01:06] here is that the mentioned date
[01:01:10] is one month before the normal election date, that is, they say
[01:01:14] May 2028, let's do it in April, and they say,
[01:01:18] let's take it all together now, or with a certain majority.
[01:01:22] Now, an election moved only one month before the normal
[01:01:25] election clearly serves no other purpose than to guarantee
[01:01:29] Erdoğan's re-candidacy. Now, if this is the case, for example, will the Deva
[01:01:32] Party support it? Will the Future Party support it?
[01:01:36] Although the Future Party has purged itself, then will the Den
[01:01:39] Party support it? Will the CHP support it?
[01:01:43] That is, they might persuade some names
[01:01:46] from these parties for a normal early election, but
[01:01:50] can the deputies of these parties support a proposal for an election
[01:01:53] moved only one month before its normal date?
[01:01:57] Can the government get their support?
[01:02:00] Well, I'm saying this in terms of the current environment,
[01:02:03] of course, a year, a year and a half is a long time in Turkey
[01:02:07] in terms of politics. As Mr. Dem said,
[01:02:10] even 24 hours is a very long time in Turkey.
[01:02:12] Therefore, they want to reach
[01:02:16] a number that can secure this environment now,
[01:02:20] that is, they want to make
[01:02:22] a decision with the current parliamentary structure.
[01:02:26] That's the reason, that is, they don't want to leave it
[01:02:30] to a year later or three months before
[01:02:33] the elections, they want to secure it. I think
[01:02:37] the purpose behind these statements by circles
[01:02:40] close to the AK Party is this.
[01:02:43] I understand. Let's turn to Fikret abi. That is,
[01:02:46] in a year, look, they might not find this majority
[01:02:49] in a year, or now that they have secured
[01:02:52] this majority, let's make this decision in advance
[01:02:55] in this atmosphere, okay, Fikret abi, what is being
[01:02:59] discussed in Ankara? That is,
[01:03:02] after Erdoğan's statement
[01:03:04] was reflected to the public,
[01:03:08] meaning after a statement like "hopefully we will overcome the upcoming elections"
[01:03:12] was reflected, constantly, either
[01:03:15] a columnist writes about it, or someone from the government side,
[01:03:19] this time a voice came from the Palace, from Mehmet Uçum, etc.,
[01:03:23] then let's decide now, there must be a reason for this, Fikret abi, what do you attribute
[01:03:27] it to? Yes, Gökmen, I attribute
[01:03:30] these discussions and developments to the effort to guarantee
[01:03:34] President Erdoğan's re-candidacy.
[01:03:37] That is, they want to make an early election decision now,
[01:03:41] find 360 in the parliament and secure Mr. Erdoğan's
[01:03:44] third, and even fourth, candidacy.
[01:03:48] Since they fear that the parliamentary arithmetic might change in the future
[01:03:52] and they might not be able to make this decision,
[01:03:55] they want to make this decision by taking into account
[01:03:58] the current distribution of deputies. This is based
[01:04:01] on the fact that there is currently a framework law, a "Turkey without
[01:04:05] terror" process, carried out by the government
[01:04:08] with the Dem Party. In that process, if some
[01:04:12] expectations of Öcalan from the Dem Party are met,
[01:04:15] the Dem Party might support the AK Party's
[01:04:19] early election decision. That is, they want to make
[01:04:22] such a decision now and secure it before
[01:04:26] this atmosphere dissipates, because currently,
[01:04:29] the Dem Party has a closeness
[01:04:32] with the AK Party in the context of the "Turkey without
[01:04:35] terror" process with Öcalan's involvement.
[01:04:38] They want to make an early election decision with the support
[01:04:42] of the Dem Party and secure Mr. Erdoğan's
[01:04:45] third candidacy after the transition to the presidential system
[01:04:49] as the third president. That is the goal,
[01:04:52] I think. Of course, in the meantime,
[01:04:55] are they afraid of encountering an accident
[01:04:59] in this early election process? Yes, there might be an accident,
[01:05:03] the Dem Party's stance might change, the "Turkey without terror" process
[01:05:06] might not proceed, the Dem Party might withdraw its support,
[01:05:09] and then it might not be possible to make an early election decision
[01:05:12] by finding 360, and Mr. Erdoğan might not be able to run again.
[01:05:16] Because they have this concern, and since the current environment
[01:05:20] is suitable, the arithmetic is suitable,
[01:05:23] and the Dem Party's support continues, they want to make this decision now
[01:05:27] and secure the candidacy. Such an approach
[01:05:30] is being discussed on this matter. Of course, the statement
[01:05:33] made by Mr. Mehmet Uçum directly gives a date,
[01:05:37] April 16, 2028, and this shows that actually
[01:05:41] Tayyar also gives the same date, yes,
[01:05:44] this shows that the government is afraid of an early election
[01:05:47] that will be held next year, it is afraid of losing an early election,
[01:05:51] because the economy is very bad, price increases,
[01:05:54] unemployment, minimum wage, they cannot fix these.
[01:05:58] If they go to an election in this economic
[01:06:01] crisis, they think they will lose. So they want to use the presidential
[01:06:04] term almost until the very end, go to an early election on April 16th
[01:06:08] one month before, and turn it into a parliamentary
[01:06:11] decision with the support of the Dem Party now.
[01:06:15] They want to turn it into a parliamentary decision so that re-candidacy can be
[01:06:18] possible. But it also emerged that they are reluctant to go
[01:06:22] to an early election during that period, Gökmen, because if they thought
[01:06:25] their chances of winning an early election were high, they could have
[01:06:29] had an early election decision made at an earlier date
[01:06:32] and secured their candidacy. Instead of doing this,
[01:06:35] Mr. Erdoğan wants to have an early election
[01:06:39] on April 16, 2028,
[01:06:41] one month before the normal
[01:06:43] date. So there is a one-month period compared to the normal period.
[01:06:47] Of course, as Mr. Tanrıkulu said, is an election
[01:06:50] one month earlier still considered an early election? This is another
[01:06:54] matter of debate, but we understand that there is a growing
[01:06:57] concern on the government's side about losing an earlier early election.
[01:07:00] For this reason, they want to make an early election
[01:07:03] decision now, before the parliamentary arithmetic changes and before the stance
[01:07:07] of the Dem Party changes, and to finalize and secure the candidacy.
[01:07:11] We can easily say that. So let's look at the parliamentary
[01:07:14] arithmetic then, friends, it was in visual number 3,
[01:07:18] we had prepared it. What does the parliamentary arithmetic say? Sezgin Tanrıkulu
[01:07:21] said that 360 is needed, because 360 is needed.
[01:07:25] Three-fifths is needed. He said they can reach
[01:07:27] 360. It kind of proves Sezgin Bey
[01:07:31] right, doesn't it? You are also of the same opinion, a bit,
[01:07:35] yes. Justice and Development Party 280,
[01:07:38] New Party 91, Dem Party 56, MHP 46.
[01:07:42] If you add AK Party and MHP, it makes 280, 320, 326.
[01:07:46] If you add HÜDA PAR, it's around 330,
[01:07:49] so 30 remain. Now,
[01:07:52] where would those 30 come from? Would they come
[01:07:56] from Dem Party members? Would they come from CHP
[01:07:59] members? There are 44 CHP members. I don't think they would come
[01:08:02] from the Good Party, right, Doğan Hocam? I think they would come
[01:08:06] from the new way group. Do you mean Deva, Saadet would come, Doğan Hocam?
[01:08:10] The New Welfare has 3, outside.
[01:08:13] Of course, not within 20. But the contested independent
[01:08:16] 11 people are important. Yes, the independent 11 are important.
[01:08:20] And here, there is HÜDA PAR, there is New Welfare,
[01:08:24] TIP has 3, Democratic Regions Party has 2, Labor Party has 2, Felicity
[01:08:27] Party has 1, DSP has 1, DSP is also important. Do you say they can reach 360?
[01:08:31] The possibility of reaching it is not impossible,
[01:08:34] nor is it difficult, especially, well, for instance,
[01:08:38] I'm speaking without including the Den Party.
[01:08:40] Friends,
[01:08:42] in 2028,
[01:08:50] say its name, they said let's make an early election decision
[01:08:54] on April 16th, they found 360,
[01:08:57] they passed 360. Do you think that
[01:09:00] in such a short time, that is, within a month or two,
[01:09:03] if they make this move, will the Dem Party MPs support
[01:09:07] this? Can the Dem Party announce this to the public? Because
[01:09:11] I repeat the critical point here. An election only one month before
[01:09:14] the normal election means only guaranteeing Erdoğan's candidacy.
[01:09:17] Can they explain this to the public? Now, let's start from there,
[01:09:21] for the Dem Party to support this process in this way,
[01:09:25] especially, it needs to achieve certain important stages
[01:09:29] that it desires and expects in the process.
[01:09:32] That is, it needs to go beyond a certain level. This framework law was important, they also
[01:09:36] attached importance to it, they called for support for it.
[01:09:39] They called for support
[01:09:41] for this process especially from the democratic public and intellectuals.
[01:09:45] But they have some problems regarding mobilization.
[01:09:48] There are very serious discussions within their own public
[01:09:51] and within the party about where this process will proceed. Because of this, the Dem Party's
[01:09:55] expectations regarding the solution of the Kurdish issue
[01:09:58] and Abdullah Öcalan's expectations,
[01:10:02] which, as you know, did not even move into the house, there are certain expectations at various
[01:10:06] levels. Because of this, I don't think the Dem Party
[01:10:09] would support such a decision in the current known
[01:10:13] conjuncture without getting a guarantee.
[01:10:17] I say that when steps are taken in the process
[01:10:20] as they wish, like the support
[01:10:23] given by
[01:10:26] the New Party to the framework law,
[01:10:29] they will experience difficulties, that is, since it is also a democratic
[01:10:33] party, there will be different voices there, there will definitely be those who support
[01:10:37] and those who don't, but I don't expect
[01:10:40] the Dem Party to support such a thing
[01:10:44] at the moment, because even if the process
[01:10:48] is going in the direction they want, even if it continues,
[01:10:51] the returns they expect, like amnesty and other steps that need to be taken,
[01:10:55] the government is quite slow on that matter.
[01:10:59] The reason for the government's slowness is also related to the election,
[01:11:02] because the government has two concerns:
[01:11:06] one is how this process will affect its own public
[01:11:10] base, what kind of
[01:11:12] implications it will have, and also the economic situation, as we all say,
[01:11:16] the pot issue. Erdoğan also mentions that there are problems here.
[01:11:19] Now, two things emerged in Erdoğan's discourse: one is this
[01:11:23] overcoming discourse in his Rize speech,
[01:11:26] which expresses concern about the election. He said we will succeed
[01:11:30] in overcoming it, so we understand that they also
[01:11:33] thought about it and discussed it. The word "overcoming," on the other hand,
[01:11:37] shows us a concern, at least a problem.
[01:11:40] Secondly, he says we are also aware
[01:11:44] that there are economic problems and that we need to take steps to fix them.
[01:11:48] This means elections are being discussed in his inner circle,
[01:11:51] some plans are being made, and they are gauging reactions
[01:11:55] to this process among their base, and there are economic problems.
[01:11:58] Now, at this point, how quickly they take steps
[01:12:02] and get the support of the Dem Party is a bit uncertain,
[01:12:05] but when you look at this picture, one of the most important partners of the People's Alliance
[01:12:09] today is the CHP. That's why there are 44 MPs there.
[01:12:12] How much pressure or negotiation, or various methods
[01:12:16] that are now commonly used, are there for 44 MPs?
[01:12:20] Aren't there fewer who directly take
[01:12:23] a stance with Kılıçdaroğlu, yes, fewer,
[01:12:27] but still a small proportion. Since there are 30
[01:12:30] MPs, you don't have to get all 44 of them there. Secondly,
[01:12:34] it's not clear whether these 11 independent people
[01:12:38] will be candidates in the next elections or not.
[01:12:41] They are very important
[01:13:01] there is DSP, DSP was also part of the People's Alliance in the elections,
[01:13:04] so when you look at this table, finding the number 30, that is,
[01:13:07] finding 30 on top of AKP, MHP, HÜDA
[01:13:11] PAR, might not be very difficult even without the Dem Party.
[01:13:14] But if they get the Dem Party, they can do it very easily,
[01:13:18] then the constitutional debate might also come to the agenda,
[01:13:22] and they can do whatever they want with the constitution, but I don't think
[01:13:26] the Dem Party would get into this in this position,
[01:13:29] I don't think so. Let me say a couple more things, of course, but keep it in mind, I will come back
[01:13:33] for another round, this is enough for now. No, tell me, but keep it in mind,
[01:13:37] because we will discuss this extensively, this event has multiple dimensions.
[01:13:40] Go ahead. Okay, then, I agree again.
[01:13:44] Now, this early election issue also has
[01:13:48] a certain hesitation among the citizens and
[01:13:51] within its own base regarding the initiatives taken by the AKP and the operations
[01:13:55] carried out by the government, especially in a certain segment.
[01:13:59] Now, this is a very serious ethical problem, because there is no clear regulation
[01:14:03] in the constitution, but as the lawmaker
[01:14:07] said, even if it's one or two months or
[01:14:11] one or two weeks earlier, an early election is an early election, said
[01:14:14] the chief advisor to the president, which is true, they will probably interpret
[01:14:18] it that way, because the current situation
[01:14:21] is as the government wants to interpret it, that's why
[01:14:26] I agree with Tanrıkulu
[01:14:28] on that matter. Because
[01:14:32] this election debate has come out in a way,
[01:14:36] Uçum's statement is important because of this, or Tayyar's
[01:14:39] statements are important because they show that we have entered
[01:14:42] the election period, and in those circles,
[01:14:46] the concerns they previously felt in the background
[01:14:49] and discussed have now risen to the top three
[01:14:53] priorities on their agenda. "Turkey's course is now elections,"
[01:14:57] says Abdülkadir Selvi. Now Selvi says something else,
[01:15:00] friends, he draws attention to the economic dimension.
[01:15:03] Selvi has it in visual number 5, let's also
[01:15:06] to convey
[01:15:09] that it wouldn't work this way, Selvi is saying this, trying to say
[01:15:13] that the election should be brought forward, etc., the end of 2027 or
[01:15:17] the beginning of 2028, but yes, the route for Turkey is now elections,
[01:15:20] he says. It's strange that he didn't write about İmamoğlu today, very interesting, he
[01:15:23] didn't write today.
[01:15:25] I'm very shocked. The retirees, minimum wage earners, and
[01:15:28] tradesmen
[01:15:31] in trouble. Look, it's important that Selvi is aware of this,
[01:15:35] and he knows it. They are in trouble. Retirees
[01:15:38] represent a mass of 17 million. It's evident
[01:15:41] how retirees taught a lesson in the local elections. Demirel, after 50
[01:15:44] years of political experience, said there is no government that the saucepan cannot overthrow.
[01:15:48] Therefore, the AK Party has no choice but to fix the economy.
[01:15:51] President Erdoğan, at the AK Party's Central Decision and Executive Board meeting, said about the economy:
[01:15:55] we are aware of this, we are working to solve it, we have the instruments
[01:15:59] to solve these problems, we will fix the economy. So,
[01:16:02] Erdoğan said at that meeting that we have the instruments to solve
[01:16:06] this problem. Murat
[01:16:09] hocam, do they have the instruments to solve this problem? On the other
[01:16:13] hand, this economic picture is not just about the economy;
[01:16:16] as you know, there's always talk of the legal situation in Turkey
[01:16:19] and the aspect that hinders capital inflows.
[01:16:23] Uh, yes,
[01:16:26] the beginning of 2028 or the end of 2020,
[01:16:30] whichever it may be, as he said, can they go to an election
[01:16:33] in a way that can win over the hearts of those 17 million
[01:16:37] retirees? No, they can't. I keep repeating the same
[01:16:40] thing, so that's why I was closing the door to the possibility
[01:16:44] of an early election. So, this relationship between
[01:16:48] economy and democracy should be described
[01:16:51] like this: since the situation on the democratic front
[01:16:55] is not good, we see a deterioration
[01:16:59] on the economic side, but as the economic side deteriorates,
[01:17:03] we see a more authoritarian regime. And this is how it will be; if they can't
[01:17:06] get it from this side, they limit your maneuvering space from the other side.
[01:17:10] That's why they're seizing municipalities, making it impossible
[01:17:13] for municipalities to produce policies.
[01:17:17] I have been emphasizing the same thing since the local
[01:17:22] at that time, uh, made the right moves,
[01:17:26] entered areas where it could directly contact the public, and
[01:17:29] seeing that it gained points from there, it increased its effectiveness
[01:17:33] here and directly got involved in these social policy
[01:17:37] implementations. That is, it drifted into a channel
[01:17:40] that prevents its rival from producing policies. Now, the upcoming period
[01:17:44] presents such a picture. So, that's why I,
[01:17:47] uh, can hardly believe that democratic steps,
[01:17:51] like the solution process and such, can be taken in the area of democracy.
[01:17:55] Unfortunately, I'm going to paint a somewhat pessimistic picture for you,
[01:17:58] but, I mean, we are in a global
[01:18:01] economy. So, I've put aside the failure of the domestic
[01:18:05] national economy, the inflation fight program,
[01:18:08] missing targets, etc. There's a serious failure domestically,
[01:18:12] and I absolutely think it's wrong to blame
[01:18:16] one single person for it. Here, it's not Mehmet Şimşek; Erdoğan
[01:18:19] is in charge, because we're talking about
[01:18:22] a process where politics and economy go hand in hand.
[01:18:24] Uh, the main reason why capital
[01:18:27] isn't flowing in, why there aren't sustained capital inflows, is political
[01:18:30] instability, and you'll appreciate that this isn't represented by one
[01:18:34] person. If there's one person in charge, it's not Mehmet Şimşek. It's
[01:18:38] himself. Now, look, there's a situation where the target
[01:18:41] has been largely missed, and
[01:18:45] for a return to an election economy, at least
[01:18:48] inflation needs to be reined in to some extent.
[01:18:51] What seems apparent here is a stubborn inflation of around 30%. Not
[01:18:55] much progress can be made there. And
[01:18:57] not just 2026, but 2027 doesn't seem like it will be
[01:19:01] an easy year in that area either.
[01:19:05] When we look at the global economy, look. There was a rate hike
[01:19:08] from the Fed, and another rate hike seems likely
[01:19:12] by the end of the year, a very high
[01:19:15] probability. And the possibility of rate
[01:19:18] hikes continuing next year is quite
[01:19:21] high. We are facing a global inflation wave; we will probably
[01:19:25] discuss those in later segments. But here,
[01:19:29] our diesel prices... Yes, but these are interconnected. I mean,
[01:19:32] the guy attacked Russia, hit
[01:19:35] five refineries. He hit them, and Russia is the most
[01:19:39] important diesel producer in the world. Especially,
[01:19:43] Russia is the primary producer of the diesel
[01:19:46] we import. It affected us more than anyone else. I mean,
[01:19:50] diesel prices rose worldwide, but they rose even more here.
[01:19:53] But on the other hand, there's also the Trump factor. We're talking
[01:19:57] about an incredibly strange leader, unbelievably
[01:20:00] unstable. He lashed out at Ukraine two days ago, saying, "What are you doing? You've
[01:20:04] turned all global markets upside down! Stop hitting!" he said.
[01:20:08] He himself had hit refineries in Iran before. So,
[01:20:12] look, not all refineries, of course, produce diesel
[01:20:15] at the same rate, but Russia was very critical here. Those five
[01:20:18] refineries played an important role, but both the ones hit in Iran,
[01:20:22] in Tehran, and the refineries
[01:20:24] hit by Iran on the other side.
[01:20:28] All of these, in total, mean we are seeing the consequences of the war
[01:20:32] triggered by Trump, and
[01:20:35] the reason for the greater increase compared to Europe
[01:20:39] is this: look, these are transported by ships, and there's
[01:20:42] an ironic aspect to this: these ships also burn diesel.
[01:20:45] That's why diesel is important. Now,
[01:20:48] for Europe, what is it, 15% to 20% or so? In America,
[01:20:52] it's lower, but agriculture uses diesel,
[01:20:56] industry uses diesel, transportation uses diesel.
[01:20:59] That diesel is brought by diesel-powered ships,
[01:21:03] so transportation costs also
[01:21:06] increase. Now, globally, in terms of production
[01:21:10] conditions and supply chains, a very serious problem
[01:21:13] is being experienced. It's not possible to solve this in the short term
[01:21:17] because you can't immediately replace this production
[01:21:20] capacity, open new refineries,
[01:21:24] or immediately restore the lost capacity.
[01:21:27] They say 6 months to a year. Therefore,
[01:21:31] some of these price increases
[01:21:34] seem to be permanent. In an environment where
[01:21:38] inflation is not falling, and this upward trend
[01:21:41] in inflation is permanent, central banks try to curb
[01:21:44] it by raising interest rates. Now,
[01:21:48] let's turn to you. Can you imagine
[01:21:51] what could happen to a Turkey that lowers interest rates
[01:21:54] at a time when the world is raising them? I will say
[01:21:58] you can, because we've tried this too, and we've seen
[01:22:01] how the Turkish economy was dragged into a dead end.
[01:22:05] Uh, I don't think they will
[01:22:08] repeat this, uh, this time the cost will be very high, because
[01:22:11] unlike before, they took low inflation
[01:22:15] and carried it to a very high level. Today, there is
[01:22:18] already a high inflation that they can't bring down.
[01:22:22] If they push it even higher, it would be a very bad election
[01:22:25] scenario. At least they had some room to maneuver
[01:22:29] by raising the minimum wage and such,
[01:22:31] artificially increasing wages for a while, and they had
[01:22:35] at least managed the election. We need to say this:
[01:22:39] at that time, some friends argued, "Well, the pot
[01:22:42] was overthrowing the government, it didn't." Friend,
[01:22:45] the pot, the person did this to the pot: there was a real gain
[01:22:48] in wages at that time; there was no loss there. We said that inflation
[01:22:52] would cause this loss very quickly, and
[01:22:56] we saw it in the next 6 months. Then another 6
[01:23:00] months. After Erdoğan won the election,
[01:23:04] the inflation gain that citizens would be exposed to.
[01:23:11] Of course, can they make revisions in 6 months at that time again?
[01:23:14] Can they bring such relief again, teacher Murat? Now,
[01:23:18] the goal is
[01:23:20] already this: when entering the election, we will probably
[01:23:23] see the steps for this from the second half of 2027 onwards,
[01:23:26] the credit market will start to expand. Now,
[01:23:29] look, with these operations, they are also doing some cleaning,
[01:23:33] clearing the way. Foreign capital wouldn't
[01:23:36] have entered the stock market in this state. Now they will clear
[01:23:39] those areas, open up space.
[01:23:42] However, in such a situation, this expansionist
[01:23:46] policy will have very serious inflationary consequences. It's already very high."
[01:23:50] With such high inflation,
[01:23:53] entering such an election process also has high
[01:23:56] costs and is unsustainable. What was the problem last
[01:23:59] time? Reserves. You also need to control the exchange rate,
[01:24:02] you can't just let it go. When you let the exchange rate go, it directly
[01:24:06] affects citizens' pockets. Therefore, you need to control the exchange rate,
[01:24:10] so you need to strengthen the reserves. Currently, Turkey is not
[01:24:13] ready for such an election process. The picture is very
[01:24:16] negative in international markets. Well,
[01:24:20] it's not possible to say that it will be better in the second half of 2020,
[01:24:23] but at least they will want to gain
[01:24:26] time until then. If not, option
[01:24:29] B is to eliminate the opposition.
[01:24:32] I mean, by eliminating, I don't mean an election without an opposition
[01:24:36] party, of course, but a situation where they can choose the candidate they want.
[01:24:40] I mean, when you look at the picture
[01:24:43] we discussed here just now, yes, it's not all of the CHP. There are people
[01:24:47] we know very well. Some of them are there because
[01:24:51] Kılıçdaroğlu will not be permanent, and it's good for their own political
[01:24:54] careers, as it can open doors for them. But
[01:24:57] some of them will no longer have a political career. There's a significant
[01:25:01] number here. Now, someone
[01:25:04] who says yes to such a proposal from the AKP
[01:25:08] will no longer have a chance in leftist
[01:25:11] politics. They can convert some of them. They might also find
[01:25:14] such support from the new group. They shook that place quite a bit,
[01:25:18] brought down whoever they could, but... I mean, something could happen there too. I think
[01:25:22] the first option is to secure it from there. You also think
[01:25:25] they can find 363, right, professor? I was guessing they could find it
[01:25:28] there, but what Fikret Bey said is very true. Why would you try
[01:25:32] to determine a future date from today?
[01:25:35] It might be a weak argument, but a very weak argument,
[01:25:39] to eliminate the uneasiness in the markets. For God's sake,
[01:25:43] when you look at the uneasiness in these markets,
[01:25:46] only a small part of it at that moment.
[01:25:50] The markets are not fluctuating due to early election expectations.
[01:25:53] The reason foreign capital is not entering is not early election expectations,
[01:25:57] etc. The main issue is that
[01:26:00] it thinks this support will not be permanent, so it tries
[01:26:04] to guarantee it. What could be the support
[01:26:08] that will not be permanent here? The HDP side. I mean,
[01:26:11] as we always say, this process, called
[01:26:14] the solution process, had an external concern aspect and
[01:26:18] an internal concern aspect. There was no nation's issue anywhere in this.
[01:26:21] It was entirely part of the government's
[01:26:24] quest to remain in power, and therefore,
[01:26:27] in this process, we knew
[01:26:29] that they wanted this support in exchange for certain
[01:26:32] promises and pledges. Perhaps they will try to tie
[01:26:36] this down, but I also agree with what Doğan said:
[01:26:39] this is not a party like the CHP. The party we are talking about
[01:26:42] is a party that is ideologically consistent within itself.
[01:26:46] I don't think they will give
[01:26:52] support without seeing concrete
[01:26:55] steps being taken. Okay, İsmail
[01:26:58] Emretelci, uh, now, does
[01:27:01] the government want to put this early election in its pocket?
[01:27:05] "Let's make a decision on this from the parliament, brother," and it's not even too
[01:27:08] early, just a month before. "Let's put that in
[01:27:11] our pocket, and then let's look forward,"
[01:27:15] is what he's saying. What's your comment? He's doing something like this:
[01:27:19] "Now, the constitution is clear.
[01:27:22] Mr. Tanrı Kulu said this. I would like to add something
[01:27:26] to him. There is a concept called 'ratio legis', suitability for
[01:27:29] purpose. What is the purpose of this constitution,
[01:27:33] of this rule? Now, let's say Erdoğan
[01:27:35] is in power. Despite Erdoğan, hm-hm,
[01:27:39] the parliament, without Erdoğan's support,
[01:27:42] because his term of office is still continuing,
[01:27:45] he was elected. The parliament said, 'I want to hold an early election.'"
[01:27:51] And it reaches a 360 majority somehow, but Erdoğan is in power,
[01:27:55] Erdoğan doesn't support this, hm-hm. It wants to bring about
[01:27:58] an election. Now the Constitution says that
[01:28:02] if a five-thirds
[01:28:06] majority in parliament makes such a decision,
[01:28:10] under those conditions, an early election will be held. This
[01:28:13] condition, what we call suitability for purpose, is the purpose of this rule.
[01:28:17] So, you are in power,
[01:28:20] despite you, an early election or an advanced election date
[01:28:23] is taking place. This is the rule, actually.
[01:28:27] Now, can we say that Erdoğan
[01:28:30] will not support
[01:28:32] such a decision that the parliament
[01:28:36] will make? Such a thing is not possible. This
[01:28:39] would be a decision taken entirely under Erdoğan's
[01:28:42] direction and command. Now, don't pay attention to
[01:28:46] these people on the sidelines, these people with advisor titles,
[01:28:49] or some of the alliance partners, or the junior
[01:28:53] partners of the government, as you know, there are partners of various
[01:28:57] sizes. Don't pay attention to them voicing these things.
[01:29:00] Don't even pay attention to Erdoğan not saying it. Ultimately, that party
[01:29:04] has a chairman, the AKP has 280 deputies, and
[01:29:08] there's no chance of an early election decision being made without Erdoğan's
[01:29:10] approval. Therefore, if such a decision is made,
[01:29:14] it will be a decision entirely contrary to the constitution.
[01:29:17] But what I'm saying applies to regimes with normal constitutional
[01:29:20] justice or where the Supreme Election Board is truly independent.
[01:29:23] We know that such a regime does not exist here. So,
[01:29:27] can Erdoğan make this decision?
[01:29:29] Yes, he can. And then he can say, "This decision was made despite me."
[01:29:33] He can say that too, he can convince his base
[01:29:35] of that.
[01:29:38] But there's a situation,
[01:29:41] as was said before. What did
[01:29:43] Ton Barak say?
[01:29:46] He says he needs legitimacy, because he knows he cannot
[01:29:49] do such a thing without legitimacy. Therefore,
[01:29:52] Erdoğan also doesn't want it to be this way. Today, Tom Barak,
[01:29:56] as you know, when Erdoğan went to New York
[01:30:00] for the UN General Assembly, he
[01:30:02] gain this announced today that he would meet with
[01:30:04] Trump.
[01:30:06] Yes, yes, he needs legitimacy. So, how will he
[01:30:11] legitimacy now? In the vote for 'Turkey without terror',
[01:30:14] a picture emerged where
[01:30:17] it passed with a very large vote. Now they saw
[01:30:21] that the purpose of the votes was not support for
[01:30:23] the AKP; it was a vote
[01:30:27] for the guns to fall silent, for a path to be entered,
[01:30:31] for the wheel of history to turn forward. But
[01:30:35] the Justice and Development Party government,
[01:30:37] as always, tries to attribute this to itself and
[01:30:41] says, "I can find the legitimacy I'm looking for right here, right now."
[01:30:45] What is this? Can I pass this without a
[01:30:48] referendum? Now, the number for this is 400.
[01:30:52] 400 is the number it can pass with, two-thirds. I mean,
[01:30:56] you know, the way an amendment to the constitution can pass in parliament without
[01:30:59] needing a referendum. This is also happening
[01:31:03] with these efforts. But
[01:31:05] I don't think this will be enough for them either.
[01:31:08] Therefore, if,
[01:31:12] uh, they are at a decision point there, I think. I mean,
[01:31:15] "Should we have a referendum, or without a referendum?
[01:31:18] Should we do it with a two-thirds majority, or with a three-fifths majority
[01:31:22] and present it to the people for approval?" I think if it goes
[01:31:26] to the people for approval, then that HDP
[01:31:29] support and so on will be very, very important, and I think
[01:31:32] this support... I believe there is no progress in the 'Turkey without terror'
[01:31:36] process because they are not convinced. Therefore, to find
[01:31:40] answers to these questions, it is necessary for these matters to enter a path
[01:31:44] in some way.
[01:31:47] Because we know that
[01:31:49] Erdoğan was also a candidate
[01:31:52] in 2014, and he was elected. Actually,
[01:31:56] the rule of the constitution is very clear: you can be a candidate
[01:31:59] a maximum of two times. Now, the problem is to reset this number,
[01:32:03] as we call it. As you know, in the previous election
[01:32:06] of 2023, he shouldn't have been able to be a candidate,
[01:32:10] but they said, "No, of course not. We reset
[01:32:13] the count with the 2017 constitutional amendment, so he can be a candidate
[01:32:16] again." Now, there isn't a regime that
[01:32:19] can oppose this at the moment, but whatever
[01:32:23] happens, they are aware that this will not be
[01:32:27] legitimate. Therefore, an illegitimate structure
[01:32:30] cannot enforce its rule
[01:32:34] as it wishes in the economy and other areas,
[01:32:38] cannot apply it to the people. I think they are aware of this.
[01:32:41] Now, actually, Murat Birdal,
[01:32:44] my professor, said in his comment that perhaps
[01:32:47] not content with this, or making this decision, this time
[01:32:51] they will try to eliminate the opposition. I mean, in terms of eliminating
[01:32:54] the opposition, some pressures and maneuvers they have applied
[01:32:57] against the opposition so far might lead to a more intense
[01:33:01] process. We will discuss this section separately,
[01:33:05] because Nuray Babacan's backstage news
[01:33:08] also mentions the government's new game plans.
[01:33:11] Uh, both in terms of candidacy, confusing people's
[01:33:15] minds regarding candidacy, and also by putting more
[01:33:18] pressure on the new party, making more moves, we will discuss that in that section. What
[01:33:22] can await us? Uh, but let me see what our viewers
[01:33:25] are saying, then we'll listen to Mr. Sezgin. Look, he says,
[01:33:28] "Our Erdoğan, as we know him,
[01:33:31] does not enter an election to lose. There's another calculation here," he says. Yes, this is said
[01:33:35] very often, but ultimately, he has to enter an election, doesn't he, Mr. Doğan?
[01:33:39] There's no escaping an election. But
[01:33:43] can he somehow turn the current losing
[01:33:45] appearance in polls
[01:33:48] into a winning one by other means? It is said
[01:33:51] that he is seeking such ways. Osman Ahunbay says,
[01:33:55] "It's like they're tricking children." This is about
[01:33:59] "we have instruments." Erdoğan said he has instruments to fix the economy.
[01:34:03] So, Selvi reports this at the AKP Central Executive Board meeting. He says,
[01:34:06] "It's like they're tricking children. If you had instruments, why is the economy
[01:34:09] in this state?" he asks. I mean, he asks, "Do you have the instruments but not
[01:34:13] the artist to play them?" He says, "It's not
[01:34:16] working out." He said it very well. Then
[01:34:20] Hatice Karahasan said, "I think the reason they are trying to determine
[01:34:24] or state the election date so early is because of pressures
[01:34:28] and bad governance. So,
[01:34:31] to suppress the public's anger by giving an election
[01:34:35] date. That's what I think," she says.
[01:34:39] Then Tayfun Baran says, "Mr. Tanrı Kulu
[01:34:42] talks about the YSK, but I mean... what can I say,
[01:34:45] elected officials are arrested without trial.
[01:34:48] What will the YSK do, etc.?"
[01:34:52] In this environment,
[01:34:55] uh, Yelda Öztürk also said, "Honestly, they are the ones who buttoned
[01:34:58] it wrong, and we are paying the bill. We, who pay the bill,
[01:35:02] want our right to urgent, staggered retirement." Faruk Avşar also said, "We are
[01:35:06] in an unending transfer period. The government will find 360; transfers don't
[01:35:10] end. The quality of politicians in this country doesn't give
[01:35:13] me confidence." Yes. Uh, there are many messages, I read some
[01:35:16] of them. Let's ask Sezgin Tanrıkulu, a deputy
[01:35:20] from a new party. Mr. Sezgin, Üçüm says that
[01:35:24] Erdoğan will be a candidate for the last time. Erdoğan will be a candidate for
[01:35:27] the last time, he says. So, does this mean
[01:35:31] that after being a candidate this time, he might
[01:35:34] not be a candidate again at the end of that period, so he says
[01:35:38] "last time"? I didn't understand that part. Secondly,
[01:35:41] there is also this rhetoric from time to time:
[01:35:44] "Erdoğan doesn't need to be president
[01:35:47] again, but Turkey needs Erdoğan's presidency
[01:35:50] for one more term." What do you say? Are these statements
[01:35:53] preparing this? Look, uh, I keep
[01:35:57] explaining, but let me state it one more time.
[01:36:01] In Turkey, I'm explaining, but you're not listening, Gökmen, you sounded
[01:36:04] like that, Professor Sezgin. No, no, not you. Let me state this:
[01:36:08] the character of the regime in Turkey changed
[01:36:12] with the 2017 Constitution. The parliamentary
[01:36:15] system, as we call it, was shelved,
[01:36:19] and a presidential system, close to autocracy,
[01:36:21] was invented for Turkey,
[01:36:25] and the election was autocracy. Now,
[01:36:28] in the 2023 elections,
[01:36:31] he won in the second round by 1-1.5% of the votes.
[01:36:34] So, it was a risky election for him.
[01:36:38] In the 2024 local elections, the Justice and Development Party
[01:36:41] absolutely lost. So, even
[01:36:43] in this autocratic environment, they lost
[01:36:46] at the ballot box. After March 2024,
[01:36:50] they are trying to transform the regime into this:
[01:36:53] guaranteed election results in an autocracy.
[01:36:56] So, let there be an election, but
[01:36:59] the result should not change. Let there be opposition, but
[01:37:03] it should not have the claim to change the government.
[01:37:07] Now, what happened to the CHP, what happened to us,
[01:37:10] this is it. Look, after March 31, 2024,
[01:37:13] first, they designed the judiciary.
[01:37:17] They built a judiciary in the places where they would
[01:37:21] carry out their operations, they created a judicial system
[01:37:25] that would carry out their operations. They adjusted the security bureaucracy
[01:37:28] accordingly, and they also adjusted the administrative
[01:37:31] bureaucracy accordingly. And on October 30, 2024,
[01:37:34] they pressed the button. They accused the CHP
[01:37:37] of collaborating with terrorists. When they didn't
[01:37:40] get a result from that, they started the operation
[01:37:43] in Istanbul on March 19. Look, if the operations in 2025
[01:37:46] had yielded results, the CHP, Özgür Özel...
[01:37:49] If the management had stayed at the CHP General
[01:37:53] Headquarters, if it had stayed in Ankara, if it had lost
[01:37:56] its claim to be the first party, there would have been no need for that operation on May
[01:38:00] 21,
[01:38:02] 2026, the illegal operation called Muhtak Bultan, but they couldn't get any results.
[01:38:06] Within the 14-month period, they came and
[01:38:09] seized the CHP in an illegal way. I mean, even if
[01:38:13] there was a court decision, even if a judge,
[01:38:17] a panel of judges, had made a decision, it's not a legal
[01:38:21] decision. I mean, it might be a formal court, but it's not a legal decision.
[01:38:24] It's null and void in my opinion. So,
[01:38:28] they seized the CHP management with that decision.
[01:38:31] And now,
[01:38:34] on July 24, a new party was founded,
[01:38:38] and this party is also progressing. They see this
[01:38:41] and are trying to gain its importance. So, let it be the opposition.
[01:38:45] Yes, they are looking for political legitimacy. As
[01:38:48] İsmail Emret said earlier, there must be legitimacy,
[01:38:51] but that political legitimacy will change
[01:38:55] Erdoğan and this government. That's what they want to do.
[01:38:58] That's why they are spreading this fear. What kind of fear are they
[01:39:02] spreading? They are trying to spread the idea that today,
[01:39:05] even the bath attendant says this, the shopkeepers say this,
[01:39:09] "they won't leave, they won't give up." Or,
[01:39:12] the AK Party voters who have broken away from them
[01:39:16] are trying to say, "Erdoğan is the only one who can govern this country."
[01:39:20] With so many troubles inside and outside,
[01:39:23] they are trying to create a two-sided fear, a weariness.
[01:39:27] We are dealing with these things. We are telling
[01:39:31] both sides, the AK Party voters and
[01:39:34] those who have broken away from the AK Party, that Turkey cannot be governed
[01:39:38] worse than this. There can't be anything worse.
[01:39:41] How can it get worse? You've been in power for
[01:39:45] 25 years. With 100 liras,
[01:39:48] with 100 liras, you can't even get a liter of diesel.
[01:39:52] Today in Diyarbakır, oh, come on,
[01:39:55] I'm sorry, you were just showing it. "Yes, yes, you can't even get
[01:39:58] a liter of diesel. In
[01:40:01] 2009, this government, the Justice and Development Party,
[01:40:04] was in power. They put this money into circulation.
[01:40:08] At that time, you could get 40 liters of diesel with it.
[01:40:11] Now you can't even get 1 liter. So, they were there then too.
[01:40:14] Now, the citizens, the youth, the new voters
[01:40:18] don't know this, and people forget.
[01:40:21] It's as if when this money came into effect in 2009, there was another government
[01:40:25] in Turkey, or this many..." operations are being carried out every day.
[01:40:29] Every day there is an operation,
[01:40:32] çetelere bilmem neye baise falan filan bilmem
[01:40:35] ne ya tamam da yani bunlar yani bir yıl
[01:40:38] önce iki yıl önce iktidar değişmedi bu iktidar vardı yani
[01:40:42] sonuçta işte borsadaki
[01:40:45] yani olanlar yani bunlar işte bir
[01:40:49] yıldır iki yıldır sezgin Bey siz bugün sosyal medyada bir kuyruk
[01:40:52] paylaştınız diyarbakır'dan neydi o ya şöyle bir
[01:40:56] şey bakın inan yani ben içim acıyor hakikaten yani
[01:40:59] sonuçta bütün dünyada şu düşünülür yani
[01:41:02] emekli bir hizmetin sonunda emekli olduğunda yani huzur
[01:41:06] içerisinde yaşaması lazım yani onurlu bir biçimde huzur
[01:41:09] içerisinde karnı doyması lazım yani gelecekle
[01:41:13] ilgili bir kaygısının olmaması lazım falan yani güvenlik
[01:41:16] içerisinde yaşaması lazım sağlıkla ilgili iyi koşullarda
[01:41:20] yaşaması lazım 25 yıl 30 yıl 40 yıl çalıştıktan sonra
[01:41:23] şimdi Diyarbakır'da bakın et ve barlık kurumunun satış'. önünde
[01:41:28] her gün, her gün ama kuynuklar
[01:41:31] oluşuyor, insanlar saat 5'te
[01:41:33] kalkıyorlar, fiş kuyruğu
[01:41:36] için,
[01:41:39] sezgin bey, yönetmenin bana ulaşamadığı ama reklama
[01:41:43] gitmem lazım, duymadım,
[01:41:46] gerçekten içim acıdı bunu anlatacağım, tamam tamam
[01:41:49] birazdan.
[01:42:05] "Duyulmayanı duyurmak, söylenmeyeni söylemek,
[01:42:08] görülmeyeni
[01:42:09] göstermek,
[01:42:19] sokaktan siyasete, pazardan piyasalara,
[01:42:22] hişporta tezgahlarından büyük market
[01:42:25] yaplarına.
[01:42:36] Hafta içi her sabah saat 7'den 10'a kadar Türkiye
[01:42:40] güne uyanıyorken burada bu stüdyoda birlikte olacağız.
[01:43:06] Açıkça continues, dear viewers. In this segment, lawyer Figen Çalıkuşu
[01:43:10] is also with us via remote connection. Ms. Figen, welcome.
[01:43:13] Hello, good evening, Mr. Gökmen. I greet you, our viewers, and our guests.
[01:43:16] Hello. Thank you.
[01:43:19] Now, we talked before the break.
[01:43:22] Why Mehmet Uçum, Erdoğan,
[01:43:26] will be the President for the last time. April 16,
[01:43:29] 2028 is suitable. I mean, one month
[01:43:33] before the normal election date, April 16 is important, it is symbolic.
[01:43:37] It is the anniversary of the date when the referendum
[01:43:40] for this new presidential system was accepted.
[01:43:43] Why did he say these things? While he was saying these things,
[01:43:47] other names accompanied him. Abdülkadir Selvi also
[01:43:50] said it could be the end of 2027 or the beginning of 2028.
[01:43:53] Şamil Tayyar said he heard from
[01:43:56] AKP members that April 16, 2028,
[01:44:00] is seen for the first round, April 2 for the presidential election,
[01:44:03] and April 16 for the second round. And this decision
[01:44:06] should be made now. So, the decision that there will be an election
[01:44:10] in April 2028, an early election, it would be good if
[01:44:13] it was made now. This statement
[01:44:17] emerged as a new statement. We are discussing what is behind
[01:44:20] this. Sezgin Tanrı was talking.
[01:44:23] Of course, there is an economic dimension to it, because
[01:44:26] without the economy improving, without giving pensioners,
[01:44:29] workers, etc. a slight breathing space,
[01:44:33] the government has no chance of going to elections easily.
[01:44:36] There, in Diyarbakır, he shared a queue today.
[01:44:40] He was explaining that, and then we went to a commercial break.
[01:44:44] What was that queue for? Can you briefly explain, Mr. Sezgin?
[01:44:47] Very briefly, I can say that the Meat and Fish Institution
[01:44:51] sells meat cheaper in its organized sales
[01:44:54] stores compared to the market,
[01:44:58] supermarkets, and butchers. I mean, ground meat is
[01:45:01] 400 liras, and diced meat is 440 liras. That's the price.
[01:45:05] Most of the people I spoke to there were elderly
[01:45:09] pensioners. To buy 1 kilo of ground meat
[01:45:12] and 1 kilo of diced meat, they queue up at 5
[01:45:16] in the morning, they wait,
[01:45:18] they get tickets at 8:30, and then they queue up again at 9:30
[01:45:22] to buy meat with that ticket if there's
[01:45:25] any left. They try to buy meat.
[01:45:28] So, for a discount of 300-400 liras,
[01:45:32] pensioners, elderly people,
[01:45:35] wait in queues in the morning. A few people said,
[01:45:38] "We come here after the morning prayer and queue up." They also expressed their
[01:45:42] concerns, Mr. Sezgin, "You will say this,
[01:45:45] and tomorrow or the day after, they won't sell us this meat either.
[01:45:48] They will remove this queue so that it's not seen, and we won't be able to get this meat."
[01:45:52] They expressed such a concern. Now, look at this.
[01:45:55] We are talking about a system of poverty
[01:45:58] where people queue for hours to buy a kilo of ground meat
[01:46:02] for a 200-300 lira discount. There is such a system,
[01:46:05] and the average pension is 23,000 liras,
[01:46:09] 27-28,000 liras, and there are 17
[01:46:12] million people whom we call pensioners.
[01:46:15] Don't they see these 17 million
[01:46:19] people? What did Mehmet Şimşek say just yesterday?
[01:46:22] He said, "When the time comes, we will increase the salaries according to inflation."
[01:46:26] Which inflation? TÜİK's inflation,
[01:46:30] ENAG's inflation, or the real market inflation?
[01:46:32] Which one will you use? If you base it on TÜİK's inflation,
[01:46:36] it will be 30%, 23,000 liras will be 30,000 liras.
[01:46:40] What will that be enough for? So, they have no
[01:46:43] way to fix this situation. That's why I tried to express
[01:46:47] it, Figen. You conceptualized it
[01:46:50] and said "to secure it." In the end, they are trying
[01:46:54] to create the conditions for Mr. Erdoğan
[01:46:58] to be a candidate one more time and to be re-elected
[01:47:01] in this oppressive environment by starting this
[01:47:04] discussion now and by trying
[01:47:07] to get this decision made with 360 votes in parliament.
[01:47:11] This is what they are trying to do.
[01:47:14] Look, as our professor just said, what happened
[01:47:18] in the stock market... Even those who follow
[01:47:21] the stock market from afar knew that
[01:47:24] it would explode somewhere,
[01:47:27] that small savers would lose
[01:47:30] money, that large companies'
[01:47:34] financing source was not banks, but the stock market,
[01:47:37] and that there was a deadlock somewhere. They were expressing
[01:47:41] this. Now, those who follow the stock market from afar
[01:47:44] see this, but how do those who created this
[01:47:48] not see it? And those who were harmed there
[01:47:52] were small savers, those who invested
[01:47:55] 300,000 or 500,000 liras of their savings
[01:47:58] there and tried to contribute to their budget,
[01:48:01] those who are more financially
[01:48:05] constrained. They were harmed again,
[01:48:08] they were harmed again. Thousands,
[01:48:12] tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people who participated in the stock market
[01:48:16] and trusted were harmed by this situation. It's not clear how much more harm
[01:48:19] they will suffer. Okay,
[01:48:22] I will turn to Figen Hanım, but Professor Murat,
[01:48:24] will the losses of those small investors be covered?
[01:48:28] How will it work? There's that Nasreddin Hodja joke,
[01:48:31] you know, "You don't believe
[01:48:34] he was born, why don't you believe he died?" Now, I'm looking at a stock
[01:48:37] that has come up. It has gained
[01:48:41] 20,000% in 3 years.
[01:48:43] 20,000%. Look,
[01:48:46] now, into such an investment
[01:48:50] vehicle, it emerged like this, as Mr. Sezgin said,
[01:48:52] there are some funds, and everyone knew
[01:48:56] that the papers invested by these funds especially
[01:49:00] went up a lot, and everyone was trying to follow them.
[01:49:03] I mean, now a process is underway where there are groups
[01:49:06] on Telegram and so on. People join these groups,
[01:49:10] and certain people from the inside,
[01:49:12] from these funds, say they got tips from fund managers,
[01:49:16] and tell them to jump on these. Once it works once or twice,
[01:49:20] you have to take the paper in somehow,
[01:49:23] but then you have to get someone else to carry it so you can get out.
[01:49:26] That's how the mechanism works. First, these people go in and drive it up,
[01:49:30] and then other people say, "Oh, Tera entered,"
[01:49:33] etc. Let's not name names now, but the names are already
[01:49:37] out there. They jump in because these people entered.
[01:49:41] So, there was such a process in the stock market,
[01:49:44] especially in the recent period. Very intense movements,
[01:49:48] and these funds that carried them were known to everyone.
[01:49:52] Why did we get dragged into such a process? I think that's the most important thing.
[01:49:56] People couldn't protect their money against high
[01:49:59] inflation, their small savings.
[01:50:02] I spoke to a lot of people today, most of them pensioners,
[01:50:05] there are students, a group of them
[01:50:08] found small amounts of money and put them here.
[01:50:11] Stock funds, especially stock-heavy funds,
[01:50:15] also for pensioners, when interest rates started to fall
[01:50:19] and decline, a search emerged
[01:50:23] with the decrease in returns there. And of course, in the face of
[01:50:26] enormous returns, they turned to these stock-heavy
[01:50:29] funds. Normally, while the returns
[01:50:33] of the IMKB 100 index, the BIST 100 index,
[01:50:37] were very low, these funds generated enormous
[01:50:41] returns, as I just mentioned, and so it seemed like an attractive
[01:50:45] option to citizens. Now, the reason I started
[01:50:48] this discussion about whether they will get their losses back is this:
[01:50:52] Just as it went up, it can also go down. The value of this stock fund,
[01:50:56] the values of these funds, are indexed to these stocks.
[01:51:00] So, these funds are being liquidated, and therefore there will be
[01:51:03] gradual sales. Many of their
[01:51:06] boards are already hitting rock bottom.
[01:51:09] There is no buying side right now. I mean, there are no buyers,
[01:51:12] only sellers. They will write down
[01:51:15] whatever prices they sell at. The average of that will create
[01:51:18] a pool there, and then the money collected
[01:51:22] will be paid out. For those who placed sell orders
[01:51:26] before 1:30 yesterday, they will be charged
[01:51:29] with a debt, apparently. An advance payment will be made to them,
[01:51:32] and then it will be divided among the others.
[01:51:36] We will see how that will be done, but
[01:51:39] who will pay the fund's money?
[01:51:43] şimdi orada onu şey yapmayalım yani devletten çıkar gibi bir şey
[01:51:46] yok ama mesela bu katılım evi evet eee yani
[01:51:49] bu tasarruf finansman şirketleri bir ufak.
[01:52:02] orada zarar uğrayanlar ne olacak orada zarara uğrayanlar işte onu karşılayacak devletten
[01:52:05] karşılanacak gibi gözüküyor yani onların onlarınki aslında şey
[01:52:08] tasarruf finansman olduğu için onların amacı tasarruf yani
[01:52:12] tasarruf olduğu için onlar eee onların eee
[01:52:16] parasının ödenmesi en normali aslında yani kamunun bunu karşılaması en
[01:52:20] normali yani normal derken.
[01:52:23] şu manada yani şimdi şöyle zaten konu
[01:52:26] gelirse söyleyeceğiz bu işe bu işe göz
[01:52:29] yumanlar bu işe göz yumanlar organize bir
[01:52:33] şekilde göz yumdular buna çünkü Meme Şimşek'in geçen sene açıklaması
[01:52:36] var fonlarda manipülasyon var buna önlem alınması
[01:52:40] gerek dedi bir seneden fazla
[01:52:44] hatta değil mi hocam beklediler neyi beklediniz siz neyi
[01:52:48] beklediniz yani onu zamanı gelince konuşacağız o ayrı bir şey ama
[01:52:51] şu şöyle bir şey. sorayım hocama eee çünkü ben de meraktayım şimdi
[01:52:55] fonlar temerrüt ilan ediyor evet şimdi temerrüt ilan
[01:52:58] edince şimdi birinin kredi ödemesi var
[01:53:02] birinin başka ödemesi var ya insanlar ya sonuçta
[01:53:05] valör 1330'dan önce hani satış
[01:53:08] gerçekleşirse sabit olsa dahi parasını alamayacak
[01:53:11] olanlar var bir de ilan edildiği üzere ya şimdi
[01:53:15] hisse spekülasyonundan ötürü aşırı değerinden
[01:53:18] yüksek bir şekilde şişmiş fiyatlar var e şimdi.
[01:53:22] yani ne bileyim 5 liralık hisseyi 50.000 liradan alan var
[01:53:26] örnek veriyorum tamam ben örnek olarak söyledim e şimdi bu insan
[01:53:29] eee
[01:53:32] saatinden önce satış emri verse bile ve bu fon bunu
[01:53:35] ödeyemezse ne olacak parasını alamayacak
[01:53:38] evet ama fonlar ama hayır saatinden önce bir de verse hocam
[01:53:42] fonlar takas bankta durum şunu söylüyorum şu ana kadar ondan
[01:53:45] önce önceki bir önceki günde şey yapıp alan parasını
[01:53:49] alanlar var onlar da geri çağırılmış bu arada.
[01:53:58] şimdi bazı açıklamaları gördüm, orada şöyle söyleniyor,
[01:54:02] bu borç yazılacak, zaten onlar da ayrı bir kayıt düşülmüş onların hesabında,
[01:54:05] dolayısıyla borçlu olarak aradan ödeme yapılacak ama mevcut değerden değil,
[01:54:09] bakın şu anda temerrüt dediğimiz mesele şu, bu
[01:54:13] fonlar hiçbir zaman zaten toplu talebi
[01:54:16] anında karşılayamaz, bu varlıkların bir şekilde nakite
[01:54:19] döndürülmesi lazım yani satış yapılması lazım ki.
[01:54:22] hisse senedi fonlarında t +2 var yani bugün
[01:54:25] veriyorsunuz iki gün sonra sonuçta
[01:54:28] eee nakit olarak size geri dönüyor şimdi dolayısıyla
[01:54:32] anında dönemez kaldı ki herkesin. yüksek yüklendiği bir
[01:54:36] ortamda bu böyle bir anda zaten nakide döndürülemez, öyle bir durumda
[01:54:39] altüst olur piyasa, yani bugün alınmış başka
[01:54:43] önlemler var, bakın yani piyasanın çöküşünün engellenmesinin
[01:54:47] arkasında özellikle spk'nın aldığı bir karar
[01:54:50] var, orada aslında buradaki ana
[01:54:53] meselemiz margin call dediğimiz şeydir, burada eeee
[01:54:56] ufak bireyleri geçiyoruz şimdi artık büyük yatırımcılar, nitelikli
[01:55:00] yatırımcılar vesaire bunlar büyük ölçüde kredili alım
[01:55:03] yapıyorlar yani... kendi varlığıylan almıyor, kendi bankadaki
[01:55:07] parasıylan almıyor, kredili alım dediğimiz çok
[01:55:10] ufak bir miktar belki kendi parasına oynuyor ama büyük ölçüde
[01:55:14] krediyle oynuyor ve dolayısıyla burada da bir öz varlık
[01:55:17] eee koruma miktarı var yani %35
[01:55:20] civarındaydı, sizin toplam varlıklarınız bu bist endeks
[01:55:24] hisseleri işte %80 %90'larla değerlendiriliyor daha
[01:55:28] kötü ufak hisseler %20'lerle
[01:55:30] değerlendiriliyor mesela orada bir öz varlık miktarı hesaplanıyor
[01:55:34] bu... %35'in altına düştüğünde, yani sizin 100.000 liralık
[01:55:38] pozisyonunuz var, hisse senedi pozisyonunuzun öz varlık hesabı
[01:55:42] 35.000'in altına düştüğünde
[01:55:45] satış emri veriyor, buna margin
[01:55:48] call deniyor, bütün büyük finansal krizlerde borsa krizlerindeki
[01:55:52] ana neden budur marjin kol şimdi bu fonların
[01:55:55] tasfiyesi gibi bir durum söz konusu haline
[01:55:59] gelince dolayısıyla en önemli tehdit marjin kol neden dün
[01:56:02] eee bankalar? çöptü
[01:56:05] yani bu aslında iş bankası ya kredi akbank
[01:56:09] vesaire böyle büyük bankaları tehdit edecek bir ortam yok hiçbir alakası
[01:56:12] yok bütün bu büyük bankalar öncülüğünde bir çöküş
[01:56:16] yaşanmasının sebebi piyasada bu margin koldan
[01:56:20] dolayı büyük bir tedirginlik oldu buradaki öz varlık
[01:56:23] koruma oranını %20'lere indirerek spk orada
[01:56:27] piyasayı rahatlattı diğer hisseleri ayırdı küçük
[01:56:31] hisselerle büyük güvenilir hisselere ayırdı tamam dedi öbürlerine yapac bir şey.
[01:56:35] çünkü o fiyatları destekleyemezsiniz,
[01:56:37] desteklenecek fiyatlar değil, maalesef oraya giren
[01:56:41] yatırımcının büyük oranda mağdur olacağı bir durum, her fon
[01:56:44] kendi içerisindedir, bir fon diğerine geçmez, para piyasası fonları
[01:56:48] var, devlet tahvin endeksi, onlar açısından oralarda bir şey yok, bu
[01:56:52] hisse senedi fonlarında her fonun kendi içerisinde
[01:56:56] kayıplarının değerlendirilip hisse senetlerinin elden
[01:56:59] çıkarılacak, dolayısıyla orada ortaya çıkan zarar da orada
[01:57:03] bütün yatırımcılara eşit olarak dağıt.
[01:57:19] ve o ödeme yapılacak, onlarda bakın mevduat
[01:57:23] garantisi, mevduatlara tanınan garanti diğerinde yok, sadece BDDK'nın
[01:57:27] denetim garantisi var, yani ben bunları denetliyorum, ben bunların
[01:57:31] operasyonları benim denetim dahil, denetimim dahil
[01:58:05] Because the stock price fell, it's not all staying there.
[01:58:08] But it cannot be converted to cash instantly. The nature of the asset
[01:58:12] is not suitable for instant cash conversion,
[01:58:16] and if you try to convert it to cash instantly, the values would not
[01:58:18] hold. Moreover, the common aspect of the stocks they played
[01:58:22] is that, for a while, measures had started
[01:58:26] to be taken there. These were low-volume
[01:58:29] stocks, meaning stocks with not much
[01:58:32] volume, which these brokerage firms could easily
[01:58:35] make hit the ceiling with a single move,
[01:58:38] and carry them at the ceiling for days. You can't make those moves
[01:58:42] with big banks and so on, but they did that too
[01:58:46] in one instance, by the way. They showed their power.
[01:58:49] I mean, that happened in previous months. Okay, let this be our preview.
[01:58:52] We will discuss this separately at 23:00, dear viewers.
[01:58:56] In this segment, former MASAK Vice President Ramazan Başak
[01:58:59] will also be with us via remote connection.
[01:59:02] Let's return to this topic
[01:59:06] and continue. Now, Ms. Figen,
[01:59:10] one, Erdoğan should be a candidate,
[01:59:12] two, an early election should be held
[01:59:16] in April 2028,
[01:59:19] three, this decision should be made now.
[01:59:22] What is this? Is the government afraid
[01:59:25] of a misstep regarding an early election?
[01:59:28] What might they be planning by pocketing this decision now?
[01:59:32] What do you think is behind
[01:59:35] all this agenda?
[01:59:38] Oh, Mr. Gökmen, they say life is what happens
[01:59:42] while you're making other plans. I mean, what happened to
[01:59:45] us, of course. You will talk about that in the next
[01:59:48] segment, but I want to say one small thing.
[01:59:52] There is Article 1 of the Capital Markets
[01:59:55] Law, which very clearly states the purposes
[01:59:58] of the law and the duties of the Board.
[02:00:01] It says, "To ensure the safe,
[02:00:05] transparent, efficient, stable, fair, and
[02:00:08] competitive operation and development of the capital
[02:00:10] market, and to regulate and supervise
[02:00:14] the capital market to protect the rights and interests of investors."
[02:00:17] It didn't stop there. It didn't stop there.
[02:00:20] What else is there? There are sub-departments
[02:00:23] of the Capital Markets Board, the Surveillance and Inspection
[02:00:27] Department. It has a very clear job.
[02:00:31] I will just move on to your question, but I wouldn't feel right
[02:00:34] if I didn't say this. What is its clear job?
[02:00:38] Look, it is to monitor unusual price and transaction
[02:00:40] volumes, the possibility of market fraud,
[02:00:43] and the deficiencies and information of collective investment
[02:00:46] institutions. See? Now,
[02:00:50] since November, an international organization's warning
[02:00:53] in June, new measures taken in August.
[02:00:56] We need to ask this: What did they do?
[02:00:59] While dealing with opposition municipalities,
[02:01:02] did those in the stock market relax? Did they miss it?
[02:01:06] What happened? I mean, how did this much
[02:01:09] concentration, this much swelling happen
[02:01:13] when there are legal obligations regarding surveillance and inspection?
[02:01:16] These questions need answers.
[02:01:20] Okay, you will discuss this later, but we have very important
[02:01:24] legal regulations. And why couldn't its requirements
[02:01:27] be met? We need independent institutions so much, don't we?
[02:01:30] Not just in the judiciary, but in all areas.
[02:01:33] Now, let's get to the part you mentioned. First,
[02:01:37] the deputies will make this decision. Of course, it's known
[02:01:40] that our constitution is not being applied,
[02:01:43] but they swore on their honor and integrity
[02:01:47] to adhere to the constitution. Now, when they say
[02:01:51] "elected twice," there's a rationale behind the constitution.
[02:01:54] They tell us, "we're going to a referendum," and so on.
[02:01:58] But when that constitution was written, a rationale was also written
[02:02:01] under it. Those who participate in this vote need to know
[02:02:04] what those two times mean. There it says,
[02:02:08] and it's a very good rationale, so with your permission, it's very brief,
[02:02:11] very brief. It says, "The principles
[02:02:15] of separation of powers and balancing
[02:02:18] power are among the cornerstones of a democratic system." This is the rationale for being
[02:02:22] elected twice. This law, I mean, this
[02:02:26] provision was put in place to prevent the concentration of power in one hand
[02:02:29] indefinitely, to enable political renewal
[02:02:33] and the transfer of power. Now, we are in such a strange
[02:02:36] situation, look.
[02:02:40] why is there politics,
[02:02:43] the political institution, these leaders and so on, taking
[02:02:47] the votes of this public and then providing the prosperity and freedom
[02:02:51] they promised. These elections have been
[02:02:55] held for years, and there are also economic difficulties.
[02:02:58] We have seen very serious perceptions
[02:03:01] about existential problems, religious and ethnic fault lines,
[02:03:04] etc., causing the public's economic problem to fall into the background.
[02:03:08] What is changing? Nothing is changing. We are falling
[02:03:11] further and further behind, but unfortunately,
[02:03:15] they don't stop us from talking about elections and politics.
[02:03:18] And now, as your question suggests, today we are
[02:03:22] hearing and discussing the statements
[02:03:26] of the appointed person. There were already
[02:03:29] problems before. Erdoğan, the president,
[02:03:32] will enter his most difficult election.
[02:03:35] This shows that it will be a difficult election.
[02:03:38] Economic hardship is no longer something that needs
[02:03:41] to be explained; it is being experienced.
[02:03:44] Due to the lack of independence
[02:03:48] of these institutions, we are facing another very serious
[02:03:51] robbery, and in this robbery, we also need to see
[02:03:55] if there are any traces of the bureaucracy's political
[02:03:58] identities, because that fire is constantly
[02:04:01] burning in our pockets, and we are talking about the presidency
[02:04:05] again. Because it will be a very difficult election,
[02:04:09] they want to guarantee it. This is the only
[02:04:12] explanation for them to find 360
[02:04:15] right now. Of course, this process of a
[02:04:19] "Turkey without terror" is also underway. Of course,
[02:04:22] we hope it continues successfully and ends;
[02:04:25] we are all for it. Of course,
[02:04:29] it is proceeding within a security framework, even if the legal
[02:04:33] leg is missing. Could there be
[02:04:36] a disruption there that we don't know about, other developments?
[02:04:40] Could there be a situation where they want to
[02:04:43] secure themselves, to make things easier for themselves
[02:04:47] from now on? But I want to say this:
[02:04:50] once such a decision is made, the function of the parliament
[02:04:53] is already clear. When we look at everything from
[02:04:57] the way laws are made to the budget, we are in a system
[02:05:00] where our representatives, the deputies,
[02:05:02] will fulfill their duties effectively and competently, right?
[02:05:06] After this election decision is made,
[02:05:09] how will the process in Turkey work? We need to look at that too.
[02:05:13] Will taking an early election decision be a solution
[02:05:17] to Turkey's problems? Right? So,
[02:05:20] Erdoğan said something in 2011. He said,
[02:05:23] if you cannot buy the eggs you bought
[02:05:26] with the minimum wage eight years ago, if you cannot buy milk,
[02:05:30] if you cannot buy cheese, if you cannot buy the bread
[02:05:33] you bought, or if you are buying less,
[02:05:36] He said that
[02:05:39] in 2011. Now, this public
[02:05:42] has fallen behind in all of these, and Mr. Gökmen, they cannot
[02:05:46] control the price of eggs. While they cannot control
[02:05:48] the price of eggs, and diesel has reached
[02:05:51] triple digits, we are still in a situation
[02:05:55] where they will make us talk about early elections and put us under pressure
[02:05:58] to have early elections. Therefore,
[02:06:02] I wanted to remind the deputies who will vote
[02:06:05] about their oath to the constitution. This public,
[02:06:08] how much more sacrifice
[02:06:11] can it make? We need to think about this.
[02:06:15] If 5 million pensioners today were to change their preferences,
[02:06:19] no matter what they do, even if they decide on early elections,
[02:06:22] even if President Erdoğan runs again, the result
[02:06:26] will not be different. But
[02:06:28] for this process, actions that are not in the public's
[02:06:32] interest, but are based on
[02:06:35] the political strategies of their own interests,
[02:06:39] for their own seats, really,
[02:06:42] in Turkey, they talk about legitimacy.
[02:06:46] I just watched the guests. Forget legitimacy,
[02:06:49] in terms of health, what remains for the health of this country,
[02:06:52] these people, this society, this legislature, executive, and judiciary,
[02:06:56] in terms of health? A big...
[02:07:00] question mark. Okay. Now,
[02:07:03] I will ask my friends for visual number one, and then
[02:07:06] visual number two. Because Figen Hanım also
[02:07:08] said, let's say they convened the parliament these days,
[02:07:12] or in these weeks, or in these months.
[02:07:16] They found 360, even passed it. They made the decision for early elections.
[02:07:19] What will happen in the process from that decision
[02:07:23] until the early election? What will citizens experience?
[02:07:26] What will the new party experience? What about the IMM
[02:07:30] trials, etc., etc.? Now this is important,
[02:07:33] because when Şahmil Tayyar put forward his proposal,
[02:07:36] saying, I think it's beneficial
[02:07:40] to make an early election decision now, regardless of when the election will be,
[02:07:44] he states that he believes this will benefit the country
[02:07:47] as follows: parties will prepare accordingly,
[02:07:51] the concern about snap or early elections will disappear,
[02:07:55] political stress will decrease, polemics will end,
[02:07:58] normalization will begin. He says political stress will decrease,
[02:08:02] polemics will end, normalization will begin.
[02:08:04] I wonder if my guests think so too.
[02:08:08] Will political stress decrease, polemics end, and normalization
[02:08:11] begin? Because there is a news report
[02:08:14] by Nuray Babacan, based on
[02:08:18] backstage information from the Justice and Development Party, that asks:
[02:08:21] What is the government's game plan?
[02:08:25] What new plans have they prepared?
[02:08:27] Now, my friends have prepared
[02:08:30] the headlines like this: Plans
[02:08:34] will be made for the second round. Plans
[02:08:37] will be made for the second round. A new space
[02:08:39] will be created for uneasy conservatives.
[02:08:41] The Deva, Saadet, and Yeniden Refah alliance
[02:08:45] will be supported. Thus,
[02:08:48] in the first round, the opposition bloc
[02:08:52] will be divided.
[02:08:54] In the second round, negotiations can be held
[02:08:56] with these parties.
[02:09:00] Some of these names will be included
[02:09:02] in the cabinet.
[02:09:05] The second round, with the support
[02:09:07] of old friends and DEM, will be overcome.
[02:09:11] The second round, old friends, meaning
[02:09:15] Deva, Saadet, Yeniden Refah. And with DEM support
[02:09:18] it will be overcome. The new party will be pressured
[02:09:22] with immunity and new legal processes.
[02:09:25] The new party will be pressured with immunity
[02:09:27] and new legal processes. "You can read a detailed article
[02:09:31] in Nefes, dear viewers. It describes it in even more detail."
[02:09:34] Let's ask Fikret Abi. Fikret Abi,
[02:09:38] let's say an early election date
[02:09:42] has already been accepted in parliament, an early election decision has been made.
[02:09:45] What could Turkey experience
[02:09:48] from the time it's accepted until that date?
[02:09:52] Now, there are clues about this in Nuray
[02:09:55] Babacan's backstage information. What do you say?
[02:09:58] "Yes, of course, I have no doubt that within
[02:10:02] the information Nuray provided, the AK Party
[02:10:05] will seek the support of conservative parties
[02:10:09] that are in opposition but can support the government.
[02:10:12] That is, it will seek the support of the parties
[02:10:15] forming a new path and their deputies.
[02:10:18] It may offer them a place on its own
[02:10:22] deputy lists to guarantee their re-election.
[02:10:26] With such an alliance, it can get
[02:10:29] those votes. This is one of
[02:10:32] the ways to make an early election decision now,
[02:10:35] to enter into a dialogue with these parties.
[02:10:39] Likewise, an alliance can be formed
[02:10:43] with independent candidates. As I stated in the first part,
[02:10:46] if the Dem Party's expectations from a "Turkey without terror"
[02:10:50] are met to a certain extent,
[02:10:54] the government can guarantee to get Dem Party's support in parliament.
[02:10:57] Thus, an early election
[02:11:00] ama erken seçim kararından sonra politikalar değişir
[02:11:04] mi başka yeni politikalara geçilir mi onları
[02:11:07] bilmek mümkün değil ama şu andaki meclisteki
[02:11:10] durum daha da aleyhe... gelişmeden erken seçim
[02:11:14] kararı alarak yeniden aday olmayı garanti etmek istiyor ak
[02:11:17] partisi, ak parti sayın Erdoğan'ın yeniden adanti etmek
[02:11:21] istiyor, bunu anlıyoruz. Acele etmelerinin nedeni de
[02:11:24] seçimi çok erken yapmak için değil, erken seçim kararını
[02:11:28] hemen alabilmek, konuda ileride bir sıkıntıyla
[02:11:31] karşılaşabiliriz diye düşündüklerinden, şimdi meclis
[02:11:34] aritmetiği uygunken biz işte yeni yol milletvekillerini
[02:11:37] de eee ittifaka katalım,
[02:11:40] bağımsızlara da. verip onların da desteğini alalım, den
[02:11:44] parti'nin milletvekillerini de alırsak,
[02:11:47] anayasa, erken seçim konusunda çoğunluğu
[02:11:51] elde ederiz, erken seçim kararı alınınca da sayın
[02:11:54] Erdoğan'ın üçüncü kez aday olması garanti olmuş
[02:11:58] olur, ilerideki sıkıntıları
[02:12:01] aşamama hali dikkate alındığında şimdiden bu kararı
[02:12:04] decision will be made.
[02:12:07] However, it is not possible to know if
[02:12:10] policies will change or if new policies will be adopted
[02:12:14] after the early election decision. But the AK Party
[02:12:18] wants to guarantee re-nomination
[02:12:21] by making an early election decision before the current
[02:12:24] parliamentary situation deteriorates further. The AK Party wants
[02:12:28] to ensure Mr. Erdoğan's re-nomination.
[02:12:32] We understand this. The reason for their haste
[02:12:35] is not to hold the election very early,
[02:12:39] but to be able to make the early election decision immediately.
[02:12:42] They think they might face a problem in the future regarding
[02:12:46] this issue. So, while the parliamentary arithmetic
[02:12:49] is suitable now, they want to include
[02:12:52] the deputies from the new path
[02:12:56] in the alliance, and also get the support
[02:12:59] of independents. If they also get the support
[02:13:02] of Dem Party's deputies, they will achieve
[02:13:06] a majority for an early election
[02:13:10] decision in the constitution. And once an early election
[02:13:14] decision is made, Mr. Erdoğan's third
[02:13:17] candidacy will be guaranteed. Considering
[02:13:20] the possibility of not being able to overcome
[02:13:24] future problems, it is understood
[02:13:27] that the AK Party is inclined
[02:13:30] to make this decision now. They are testing this.
[02:13:33] Such initiatives can be taken,
[02:13:36] and this will be observed. "Now, regarding
[02:13:40] the framework law on a terror-free Turkey,
[02:13:43] there hasn't been a very rapid
[02:13:46] progress yet. There's also a hesitation here,
[02:13:50] which is worth reminding. The public has a reaction
[02:13:53] to this issue. That is,
[02:13:56] regarding the steps the AK Party
[02:13:59] will take,
[02:14:02] Bahçeli has already openly stated his support,
[02:14:05] but the AK Party is keeping a bit more distance,
[02:14:09] Mr. Erdoğan is keeping a bit more distance from this issue,
[02:14:13] because in the 2015 period,
[02:14:16] another opening process took place.
[02:14:20] Intellectuals, journalists, writers were sent to Anatolia,
[02:14:24] the issue was explained. However,
[02:14:27] the voters reacted to that process
[02:14:31] in the 2015 elections and brought
[02:14:34] the AK Party down from being
[02:14:37] the sole ruling party. Now, there is also a concern
[02:14:41] whether voters will react in the same way
[02:14:44] to this new opening process. Therefore, the AK Party
[02:14:48] is taking very slow steps. But if the Dem
[02:14:51] Party imposes certain conditions for an Early Election
[02:14:54] decision and makes them mandatory,
[02:14:58] or puts them forward as a condition, perhaps the AK Party and MHP
[02:15:02] might choose to meet some of the Dem Party's expectations, right?
[02:15:06] Yes, Professor Doğan, what do you say?
[02:15:09] How do Nuray Hanım's predictions
[02:15:13] seem to you politically?
[02:15:16] First of all, these are already happening right now, beyond
[02:15:19] predictions, of course, these are valuable
[02:15:23] assessments, but many of them are happening now.
[02:15:26] I want to start from this point regarding them.
[02:15:29] There is this final emphasis, isn't there?
[02:15:33] "I will be a candidate for the last time."
[02:15:37] The last year of the flight, 2009.
[02:15:40] Year 2009. So, how many years ago?
[02:15:43] We are back to mathematics, 8 years ago, professor.
[02:15:47] You wouldn't believe it. So,
[02:15:50] there's something like this from 17 years ago.
[02:15:54] The President says at that time in the party structure, there is
[02:15:58] a three-term rule, and he says, "Did he say 2009?"
[02:16:01] He says the 2009, 2011 elections
[02:16:04] are my last candidacy in this context.
[02:16:07] But he also says a very nice thing: "I will not remain stuck to the seat
[02:16:11] like some others." In 2009,
[02:16:14] after that, he really doesn't run for parliament again,
[02:16:17] because he will be elected president. But there's a "last"
[02:16:21] emphasis there. I will come to why this "last" is important
[02:16:25] later. In 2012,
[02:16:29] at the AKP congress, he says, "I will be a candidate
[02:16:32] for General Chairman for the fourth and final time."
[02:16:36] He says that after the presidential system with a party leader
[02:16:39] was adopted, he returned to the AKP General Chairmanship.
[02:16:43] So, he returned to the AKP General Chairmanship that he had said
[02:16:47] was for the last time before. But most importantly,
[02:16:51] in the 2023 elections, in the 2023 elections,
[02:16:54] very clearly, although he says it on various
[02:16:57] occasions, in Samsun,
[02:17:00] the President says, "As President,
[02:17:03] in 2023, with the strength
[02:17:07] we will receive from the last support
[02:17:10] we ask from our nation on our behalf,
[02:17:14] we will start the construction of the Century of Turkey." "We will hand over
[02:17:17] this blessed flag to our youth." So, in the previous election,
[02:17:20] we were told that this was the last time.
[02:17:24] So, this was the last time, and therefore,
[02:17:27] it was clearly stated by the President himself
[02:17:31] that he would not be a candidate again. Before the 2024
[02:17:35] local elections, in a TÜGVA coordination
[02:17:38] meeting, the President had also said, "For me,
[02:17:42] this is a final." So, while going into the local elections,
[02:17:44] he said, "I was already elected for the last time in 2023.
[02:17:48] We are going into the 2024 local elections. This is a final.
[02:17:50] With the authority given by the law, this election is already my last election."
[02:17:59] He is asking for support in the local election too. Now, in this
[02:18:02] environment, the process,
[02:18:06] the economic situation, the emergence of another
[02:18:10] very serious presidential candidate, etc.
[02:18:13] The most important concern of Mr. Erdoğan
[02:18:16] and the government and its partners is to consolidate
[02:18:20] their own neighborhood. Now, this "last" emphasis
[02:18:24] is for this reason. That is, for those who are offended,
[02:18:27] resentful, who have supported him for many years.
[02:18:30] Mr. Tanur Kul also said that Erdoğan alone can solve
[02:18:34] all these problems, but voters who might say, "This is too much now,"
[02:18:38] about the process he has been through, because we are talking about
[02:18:41] a quarter of a century. The emphasis on "last"
[02:18:45] is actually for this. Are they saying, "Please,
[02:18:47] just one more time"? Yes, this is the last time,
[02:18:51] because until that day, people who had shared a common
[02:18:55] destiny with him, saying, "We walked together until now,"
[02:18:58] because now the government doesn't have the issue of saying,
[02:19:01] "Let's convince those outside our neighborhood."
[02:19:05] The main thing is to hold onto what we have. That's why
[02:19:08] this has been going on for many years, this is not new.
[02:19:11] The reopening of Hagia Sophia as a mosque,
[02:19:15] when it hadn't been done before. Is he using his weapons
[02:19:19] slowly in the last process to somehow convince
[02:19:22] the conservative voter? That's why
[02:19:26] the "last" emphasis is important here.
[02:19:29] That is, this "last" has been told to us many times,
[02:19:32] and the last presidential election in 2023 was truly the last for them.
[02:19:36] But for the government, Erdoğan is a necessity.
[02:19:39] To be able to win, to be able to continue,
[02:19:42] and for the masses who identify with him
[02:19:46] to remain in power, just like in the People's Alliance,
[02:19:49] for example, Bahçeli gave a very dangerous example.
[02:19:52] He put his own emblem as an example,
[02:19:56] saying, "Until now, we have achieved two crescents."
[02:19:59] If the third crescent, if the MHP doesn't get elected,
[02:20:02] does that mean its three crescents are gone? Does it mean
[02:20:05] one crescent is missing? He gives such a risky
[02:20:09] support. Now, these conservative parties,
[02:20:13] there are clusters of conservatives. But let me tell you,
[02:20:16] since 2009, the government has been making
[02:20:20] this "last" emphasis, yes, it has.
[02:20:23] Most recently, before the 2023 presidential election,
[02:20:27] he again emphasized "last." He said, when going into
[02:20:30] the local elections, "You know, I was a candidate
[02:20:34] for the last time. This 2024 local election
[02:20:47] will be my last election. Therefore, support us
[02:20:51] in the local elections." But now, Uçum says
[02:20:54] he will be a candidate for the last time. So, he should say,
[02:20:58] "This time, it will really be the last time I run."
[02:21:02] He doesn't say that, does he? He doesn't say that.
[02:21:05] And there is an important process here.
[02:21:09] Murat said, "Now, the economic problems must be solved somehow."
[02:21:13] The government no longer has many instruments
[02:21:16] for this. This doesn't seem very possible,
[02:21:20] because we are also in a state of alert.
[02:21:23] The election is actually very close.
[02:21:27] Even if it's held in the last week of 2028,
[02:21:30] if they say, "We had an early election a week ago, this is also an early election,"
[02:21:33] then in a Turkey where
[02:21:49] diplomas are being revoked today, no one will be able to say anything
[02:21:52] about it. Mainstream politics, therefore,
[02:21:55] even if it is then, there is little time left.
[02:21:58] Little time left to change the constitution. So, they
[02:22:02] are making these calculations in a more cramped
[02:22:05] position. That's why they will be a bit more alert.
[02:22:09] Now, we said conservatives. Who are there?
[02:22:12] Deva, Saadet, Yeniden Refah. Now, some discussions are happening there.
[02:22:16] I had some rumors,
[02:22:19] it was written a few times in this context.
[02:22:22] For example, lowering the election threshold.
[02:22:26] Why is lowering the election threshold important?
[02:22:29] Let's say it's 4% or 5%.
[02:22:33] Now, there are parties that move in that range,
[02:22:36] and if the citizen thinks they won't pass that threshold,
[02:22:39] they will turn to a new party, for example, the Victory Party.
[02:22:43] Now, many people who would vote for the Victory Party
[02:22:46] will vote for a new party. Why? So their vote
[02:22:49] is not wasted. This concern
[02:22:52] is very widespread
[02:22:54] among these voters, especially anti-Erdoğan voters.
[02:22:58] But if this threshold is lowered,
[02:23:01] those who are below the threshold but close to passing
[02:23:05] it will find the urge for an alliance
[02:23:09] to become more realistic. For example,
[02:23:12] Yeniden Refah, Deva, Saadet, okay? But
[02:23:16] this is about parliamentary elections. The arithmetic
[02:23:20] of the presidential election is of course different.
[02:23:23] But their activity can somehow
[02:23:27] come into play. That is, the nationalist block,
[02:23:30] the Victory Party, the İyi Party. The İyi Party
[02:23:34] may not have much of a threshold problem,
[02:23:40] but it could still be risky in some positions.
[02:23:44] Among conservatives, there are Saadet, Deva, Yeniden Refah.
[02:23:47] But there, the presidential election
[02:23:51] has an important dynamic. There,
[02:23:54] Yeniden Refah experienced this. That is, Yeniden Refah,
[02:23:58] in the last presidential election, in the second round,
[02:24:01] by coming to the podium and giving support
[02:24:05] to the People's Alliance, its rise...
[02:24:09] He is making statements against Erdoğan, against his policies,
[02:24:12] and criticizing every step they take. Why is he doing this
[02:24:16] so frequently? Because the rise of the Yeniden Refah Party
[02:24:20] has very clearly stopped. The most important reason for this
[02:24:23] is that among conservative voters, there is now a very serious
[02:24:26] anti-Erdoğan sentiment at the base. That is, maybe they won't go
[02:24:29] to this new party, but there is a very serious reaction.
[02:24:32] Therefore, it will be a bit difficult
[02:24:35] for Yeniden Refah
[02:24:37] to turn to that direction
[02:24:41] in the presidential election again, as Nuray Babacan said,
[02:24:44] because this will have a cost. Also, no one
[02:24:48] bathes twice in the same water. We experienced the Sinan Oğan
[02:24:50] example. Now, in that scenario, there are such things, that is,
[02:24:54] in the first round, we divide it in such a way
[02:24:58] that it goes to the second round, and in the second round,
[02:25:01] now, in 2023, they already did this
[02:25:04] in a way, that is,
[02:25:09] the nationalists, in the second round,
[02:25:12] went to Erdoğan's side. This was both a demotivation
[02:25:16] for nationalist voters, for anti-Erdoğan nationalist voters,
[02:25:19] it was a demotivation, and also
[02:25:22] in the second round, it gave Erdoğan
[02:25:26] a very serious thing, it gave him strength
[02:25:30] and moral motivation. Therefore, what Nuray
[02:25:33] Babacan says here, that in the second round,
[02:25:37] old friends and DEM...
[02:25:40] it's not easy. Old friends are a bit
[02:25:44] complicated. DEM support is difficult
[02:25:47] for me, difficult in my opinion,
[02:25:51] because I don't think the government can take serious
[02:25:55] steps in the process. There's no time left,
[02:25:58] because if that serious step is not within a constitutional
[02:26:01] for both the defendants and the lawyers,
[02:26:05] this situation is like this. They expressed
[02:26:08] their objections at regular intervals. They are expressing
[02:26:11] them. The President of the Istanbul Bar
[02:26:14] Association and its management came to the courtroom two days
[02:26:18] ago in the evening
[02:26:22] and spoke about this issue, and they said
[02:26:25] that this situation violates both professional rights and human
[02:26:29] rights. This was very
[02:26:31] true. And it doesn't end there. For example,
[02:26:35] there are also demands that only the names
[02:26:38] of those whose statements will be taken that day should be read,
[02:26:41] and no one else's statement should be taken. Because the lawyers there
[02:26:45] wait to cross-examine a person,
[02:26:48] but it's not clear when it will be taken. People wait there for 12 hours,
[02:26:52] and at night, I mean, when the hearing starts in the morning,
[02:26:56] the names of those whose statements will be taken today should be announced from the very beginning.
[02:26:59] The board sometimes does this, sometimes it doesn't.
[02:27:03] It has done it twice so far. So, when it feels like it,
[02:27:06] it does it. So,
[02:27:10] there is such a problem. Hopefully, it will be overcome,
[02:27:13] but from what I understand, they also want to finish the hearing as soon as possible,
[02:27:17] and give a verdict in this case with incredible speed. They want to act,
[02:27:21] but this, of course, is not
[02:27:24] suitable for the profession, for law, or for human rights.
[02:27:27] This issue needs to be resolved somehow. Our expectation is very
[02:27:30] clear. Let the hearings start at 10 AM.
[02:27:34] When we go to Çağlayan or Kartal, the hearings start at 9 or 9:30 AM.
[02:27:37] There, they can start at 10 AM, and in the evening, they can
[02:27:41] finish at 6 or 6:30 PM. This is a very normal situation.
[02:27:45] It should be like this. What time is it now?
[02:27:48] We don't see it starting before 11 or 11:30, especially for the last 2 or 3 weeks.
[02:27:52] In the beginning, it was starting at 10, then it became 10:30, 11,
[02:27:55] 11:30. Now, it doesn't start before 11:30,
[02:27:58] and in the evenings, it finishes around 11 or 12.
[02:28:02] Sometimes, it finishes at such late hours. Therefore, urgent measures
[02:28:06] need to be taken regarding this. So, there is such
[02:28:10] a thing. And also, you will make your comments about my main question,
[02:28:14] but before that, I would like to ask you. You are here, but we will say goodbye to Mr. Sezgin.
[02:28:18] Let him give his comments before the commercial break.
[02:28:20] After that, you can share
[02:28:23] your comments regarding the IMM process.
[02:28:26] Mr. Sezgin, what do you say? Nuray Babacan says
[02:28:29] that yes, the government has new game plans,
[02:28:33] and these are what the new party will get from these plans.
[02:28:36] What do you say, sir? Of course,
[02:28:40] the Justice and Development Party will suddenly become
[02:28:44] democratic, then there will be democratization,
[02:28:47] judicial practices will improve, and we will go to an election
[02:28:51] within these programs. We are not
[02:28:54] in such an expectation. This is contrary to the nature of things.
[02:28:57] The system they established is a system that can only progress
[02:29:00] with pressure. That's why
[02:29:03] we live in such an unjust environment in every field.
[02:29:07] They will increase this even further, because how many lawsuits do you have
[02:29:11] against you, Mr. Sezgin? Well, I guess there are almost 20 now.
[02:29:15] I mean, I estimate there should be almost 20.
[02:29:18] And they know that these systems only work with pressure
[02:29:22] and in an unjust environment. That's why they are using all the tools
[02:29:26] at their disposal, and the judiciary comes first.
[02:29:29] They have used the judiciary against the opposition
[02:29:32] in every matter until today,
[02:29:35] and they will continue to use it. Are we going to step back because of these?
[02:29:39] No, I mean, in the last 3-4 months,
[02:29:42] I was present as an election observer in two countries. One was
[02:29:45] Hungary, and the other was Kazakhstan.
[02:29:48] And now, lawyers that we have the opportunity to make comparisons
[02:29:52] with world examples. I mean, we have the opportunity to compare
[02:29:55] this regime with world examples. I believe
[02:29:58] this, I mean, I sincerely believe it.
[02:30:02] I see it in the field. I mean,
[02:30:05] the field is not like what journalists and commentators say.
[02:30:09] People are not like this. They will cooperate with the HDP,
[02:30:13] Kurds will go to the polls, Erdoğan will vote,
[02:30:16] or the HDP voter. There is no such world.
[02:30:20] I mean, it is not possible for Erdoğan to convince
[02:30:24] the Turkish voter whom he oppressed so much in this environment.
[02:30:27] This is not something that will happen in a year or so.
[02:30:31] Or conservative voters.
[02:30:34] I mean, so much corruption, so much illegality,
[02:30:38] so much, I mean,
[02:30:41] they see the picture much better than us because they come from the same neighborhood,
[02:30:44] they live in the same neighborhood. Okay,
[02:30:48] what about Erdoğan's plans?
[02:30:51] What can the new party do to prevent him from realizing
[02:30:55] these plans, for example,
[02:30:59] by including conservatives or HDP members in this way?
[02:31:03] That's why, look, that's why the new
[02:31:05] party just came. We established the new party
[02:31:08] and we are progressing rapidly. I really need to go to a commercial break.
[02:31:12] We don't have such funds. Our only source of income is these modest
[02:31:15] advertisements of this television. Please finish your thoughts
[02:31:19] after that, Mr. Sezgin. Okay.
[02:31:54] To make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
[02:31:57] to show the unseen.
[02:31:59] From the streets to politics,
[02:32:08] from markets to stock markets,
[02:32:11] from hawker stalls to large supermarket shelves.
[02:32:25] Every weekday morning from 7 to 10,
[02:32:28] as Turkey wakes up to the day, we will be together in this studio.
[02:32:54] "Açıkça" continues, dear viewers. Because we went to a commercial break,
[02:32:58] New Party Diyarbakır Deputy Sezgin Tanrıkulu could not finish
[02:33:01] his comments. Mr. Sezgin, please, finish it,
[02:33:05] and then we will say goodbye to you. Well,
[02:33:09] I mean, of course, we are not in
[02:33:12] a normal order. There is no democratic environment.
[02:33:15] Judicial practices, I mean,
[02:33:18] from all sides, it keeps the entire opposition under pressure,
[02:33:21] and it will continue to do so. We are aware of this.
[02:33:24] And in this environment, we faced a judicial coup
[02:33:28] since March 19th. It continues. That judicial
[02:33:31] coup continues. We established the new party,
[02:33:34] organized in 81 provinces. This month, in districts,
[02:33:38] next month in provinces, and in November, we will hold our grand congress.
[02:33:42] And truly, with our deputies and our organization, we are everywhere in Turkey.
[02:33:46] Despite all these pressures, we are showing
[02:33:49] great resistance. Under the leadership of our general chairman,
[02:33:52] we are fighting. We are offering a vision to Turkey.
[02:33:56] Ultimately, our citizens are sure
[02:33:58] that when this ballot box is put forward,
[02:34:02] we will ensure its security. We see that too.
[02:34:05] And ultimately, when the ballot box is in place,
[02:34:08] this government will definitely change. I mean, whether Erdoğan will be a candidate or not,
[02:34:12] whether he will form an alliance with this one or that one, it doesn't matter.
[02:34:16] Ultimately, our citizens, for the future of Turkey,
[02:34:19] will vote with their consciences.
[02:34:23] And that vote will be for the change of this government after 25 years.
[02:34:26] This is the picture I see.
[02:34:29] It's not something to be boastful about. If they didn't have these fears,
[02:34:33] as Ismail said a little while ago, they
[02:34:35] wouldn't have inflicted this oppression
[02:34:39] in the IMM cases. They wouldn't have inflicted such obvious
[02:34:42] oppression. I say this as someone who has followed
[02:34:46] all judicial processes from the Supreme Administrative Courts
[02:34:49] until now. Because they are afraid,
[02:34:52] they are truly afraid. And with that fear,
[02:34:56] they are trying to commit all kinds of illegalities. Just yesterday or the day before,
[02:34:59] the accounts of our closest friends were closed. "Ali Ismail Korkmaz's accounts,
[02:35:03] look, access barriers were imposed on them.
[02:35:07] Access barriers were imposed on the accounts of peace academics.
[02:35:10] Access barriers were imposed on many accounts of our friends,
[02:35:13] of our journalist friends, and on the Evrensel newspaper.
[02:35:16] I mean, if there were no fear,
[02:35:20] if they weren't afraid, why would they do this?
[02:35:23] They do it because they are afraid. They are trying to prevent
[02:35:26] the dissemination of information and access to accurate information.
[02:35:29] They will not stop all this just because
[02:35:32] a revelation came down all of a sudden. We are aware of this, but
[02:35:36] we will not take a single step back from the struggle,
[02:35:39] and we will succeed together.
[02:35:43] I am sure of this. I mean, no matter what they do in this term
[02:35:46] in parliament, no matter what pressure they exert,
[02:35:49] they will not succeed. Nowhere in the world
[02:35:53] has a regime that has exerted so much pressure succeeded.
[02:35:56] It will not succeed in Turkey either. A viewer asked this,
[02:36:00] Mr. Sezgin, "Okay, but
[02:36:04] why are they pushing the limits so much, making so many plans,
[02:36:08] just to be president for another term? Why are they doing this?
[02:36:11] How can we question the conditions of this?"
[02:36:15] Look, the world of Mr. Erdoğan and the Justice
[02:36:18] and Development Party, those who want to continue this regime,
[02:36:22] is this: In Turkey,
[02:36:24] only we can govern. No one else
[02:36:28] can govern. The world order is already suitable for this.
[02:36:31] This so-called world order is ultimately more
[02:36:35] amenable to such a form of government. It suits their interests more.
[02:36:39] The order in the Middle East,
[02:36:41] the world order, a form of government
[02:36:45] in the USA, etc. They think that a democratic order
[02:36:48] in Turkey, not a parliamentary regime,
[02:36:52] not an order in accordance with the law, but such an order is more advantageous
[02:36:56] for them. They think that an autocratic
[02:36:59] form of government, the concentration of power in a single hand,
[02:37:02] the decision-maker being a single person, and the absence of a balance
[02:37:04] and control mechanism is better. That's why they want
[02:37:08] it to continue like this.
[02:37:11] And there are also forces that have grown strong
[02:37:15] from this regime in Turkey, in bureaucracy, in judiciary,
[02:37:19] in economy. There are forces that have emerged with these.
[02:37:22] They have clung to this order with all their might.
[02:37:26] I mean, I really have a lot to say. For example,
[02:37:29] if they didn't trust this order,
[02:37:32] could DEDAŞ, which is an electricity distribution company
[02:37:36] close to the government, inflict this oppression on our citizens in 6 provinces?
[02:37:40] I mean, their order will be disrupted.
[02:37:43] Who wants this order to continue? These people want it because their order
[02:37:46] will be disrupted.
[02:37:48] Okay.
[02:37:51] I thank you very much and wish you good broadcasts.
[02:37:55] Best regards, Sezgin Tanrı, thank you.
[02:37:58] Ismail Emritelci, we were going to say goodbye to Sezgin, so you had to
[02:38:02] cut him short. Nuray Babacan said
[02:38:06] that they will do these things.
[02:38:09] There will be more pressure and more moves
[02:38:13] regarding the new party.
[02:38:17] Professor Doğan said that this is already being done,
[02:38:21] but is something else being planned? What is happening?
[02:38:24] What is going on? Well,
[02:38:27] as Professor Murat said a little while ago, option A is
[02:38:31] to improve the economy, and option B
[02:38:34] is to neutralize the opposition.
[02:38:37] Actually, option B is their option.
[02:38:40] Let's neutralize the opposition first. This is my opinion.
[02:38:44] We'll see about the rest if there's time.
[02:38:47] Because the reason for this is, in my opinion,
[02:38:50] the government knows very well that
[02:38:53] no matter what they do, they have no chance
[02:38:56] of improving the economy. For example, the pension given to a retiree
[02:39:00] has no chance of being more than social assistance. For example, 30,000 lira.
[02:39:04] My father gets 30,000 lira. My father was a civil servant
[02:39:07] who served the state for 27 years. What will a retired civil servant
[02:39:10] do with 30,000? Will they make it 40,000? What will
[02:39:14] 40,000 be? How will this person make a living with 40,000?
[02:39:17] Do they think retirees can make a living
[02:39:21] without receiving help from their families?
[02:39:24] No, they know very well that they cannot make a living.
[02:39:27] Therefore, they have no chance of improving the economy.
[02:39:31] They have no chance of bringing inflation down.
[02:39:34] It might drop below 30% to some extent, right, professor? But even that is doubtful
[02:39:38] now, so it's over. There's no such thing.
[02:39:42] For example, we talked about this fund earlier,
[02:39:45] and we will talk about it again, but I will be very general.
[02:39:49] There is no free market in Turkey. People have no opportunity to invest.
[02:39:53] There is a floating exchange rate regime in name,
[02:39:56] but because there is no free market, due to the sales of public banks
[02:40:00] from behind, there is actually a fixed exchange rate system.
[02:40:03] Therefore, those who want to escape from this
[02:40:07] sometimes enter the stock market. We experienced this 2-3 years ago.
[02:40:10] In fact, a certain stock was very popular, and the owner of the stock
[02:40:15] said that his stock was not that valuable. They criticized the person.
[02:40:18] A certain period of time passes, and in my opinion, there is an organized
[02:40:22] crime. We experienced the fund incidents. How do we know this? The Minister of Finance
[02:40:26] came out and said it. No measures were taken for a year.
[02:40:29] Those who caused this failure to take measures, etc., etc., etc.
[02:40:33] Therefore, the main goal is to disperse the opposition,
[02:40:37] since the economy is already terrible and has become impossible
[02:40:40] to recover from. But the critical
[02:40:44] point is this: There are two issues here.
[02:40:47] They acted similarly in the local elections.
[02:40:50] That is, "Let's isolate
[02:40:53] the Republican People's Party
[02:40:55] at that time, and when we isolate it,
[02:40:58] let's attract the allies of that time
[02:41:01] to our side, let's make them act against the CHP
[02:41:05] and they won't win." What happened? The citizens reacted
[02:41:08] very strongly. We even said this here
[02:41:12] at that time that the citizens
[02:41:17] elected Mansur Yavaş, the Mayor of Ankara Metropolitan Municipality,
[02:41:20] with a much larger vote, and we even said
[02:41:23] that it's not enough. They voted for the party led by Özgür Özel
[02:41:26] at very high levels. They voted for 37%-38%,
[02:41:30] and they voted for the future of Turkey. So,
[02:41:33] I don't think this isolation operation
[02:41:37] will work at all for another reason.
[02:41:40] If you notice, Nuray Babacan
[02:41:43] said in her news that the new road,
[02:41:46] DEVA, Saadet, etc. old friends,
[02:41:50] old friends, actually, look, who are these people?
[02:41:53] Don't get hung up on names. The members of that party
[02:41:56] shouldn't get hung up on them either. There are people who
[02:41:59] want to continue in parliament,
[02:42:03] and there are parties. Look, the equivalent of this in the previous
[02:42:07] election was the six-party table. So, who was the six-party
[02:42:11] table with at that time? So, who are the people
[02:42:14] who want to join now being asked to join? Therefore,
[02:42:17] we can actually make a logical
[02:42:21] inference. In the previous election,
[02:42:24] they were with the loser. Now, the losers of the upcoming
[02:42:28] election also want them by their side
[02:42:31] to increase their support in parliament. The miscalculation in the last election
[02:42:35] came out. We were also mistaken.
[02:42:38] I was also working at that time
[02:42:41] as the election affairs election board representative of the party in Istanbul,
[02:42:44] so I was also mistaken. I have to say this openly.
[02:42:48] But it means that others will be mistaken in the coming period.
[02:42:52] I think this scenario will not go very far,
[02:42:56] because this also shows weakness in the eyes of the citizens.
[02:42:59] That's essentially what it is. That's what we couldn't see at that time.
[02:43:03] The citizens actually saw that weakness.
[02:43:06] Whereas, our chances of getting votes by going out alone,
[02:43:10] without needing any alliance, by entering the election,
[02:43:14] were much higher. We couldn't see this at that time.
[02:43:17] Let's speak openly about this. We were deceived, etc., etc.
[02:43:20] I mean, this period is very important.
[02:43:24] The HDP
[02:43:27] is being talked about a lot. Now, first of all,
[02:43:30] Erdoğan's expectation is actually
[02:43:33] that, I mean,
[02:43:37] even if the HDP provides its support,
[02:43:41] what will the Kurds do? What will the voters do?
[02:43:44] Let's say you got the HDP's support. What will you do with the voters
[02:43:48] after getting the party's support? In my opinion,
[02:43:52] this is the main issue on the table, and Erdoğan is expecting this.
[02:43:55] And let's not forget, Öcalan gave a statement
[02:43:59] for the municipal elections before. The voters, the Kurdish
[02:44:02] voters, used their vote preference against him.
[02:44:05] Now, in this period, they obeyed Demirtaş's call,
[02:44:09] not Öcalan's call. Yes. Now, in this period,
[02:44:12] there are voices that are being tried to be suppressed from all sides regarding the Kurdish movement.
[02:44:16] That is, "No, brother,
[02:44:19] Öcalan will speak, no one else will speak."
[02:44:23] We see such a suggestion,
[02:44:27] and this is being tried to be imposed
[02:44:31] on society, that is, everyone's consent is being sought.
[02:44:34] But Erdoğan, in my opinion,
[02:44:38] because he cannot predict what the voters will do, he will determine
[02:44:41] this distance accordingly. That is, as I said earlier,
[02:44:44] referendum or something? Their decisions, in my opinion,
[02:44:48] will be made after such processes, and
[02:44:52] they will make this decision after being sure about some processes.
[02:44:55] Currently, no one from the Kurdish movement, as far as we can see,
[02:44:59] is speaking against Öcalan anyway. I mean, no one is saying
[02:45:02] anything. Demirtaş,
[02:45:05] what more can he do, it should be said. He is being treated very unfairly, in my opinion.
[02:45:09] What more can he do? Of course, he said
[02:45:12] he wouldn't make political statements. He said he supported the process, etc., etc.
[02:45:16] But they cannot solve the meaning
[02:45:19] of the silence among the voters, especially among the Kurdish voters,
[02:45:22] and as far as I can see, they are not taking
[02:45:25] any action without getting a guarantee.
[02:45:29] And in my opinion, this is the most important factor
[02:45:31] that will affect the timing and outcome of the upcoming elections.
[02:45:35] Yes, dear viewers, let's remember this as a material point.
[02:45:38] Everyone is free to comment. So, when we sometimes host
[02:45:42] an HDP deputy or a group deputy chairman,
[02:45:45] especially when there is very little time left until the election,
[02:45:49] when we ask them if they would support any plan of the government
[02:45:52] that is brought forward two weeks, a month, or two months early and aims for Erdoğan to be re-elected,
[02:45:56] they make statements that they will not support
[02:45:59] such a thing. Let's mention these,
[02:46:03] but of course, this is politics,
[02:46:05] and you never know what will happen.
[02:46:09] What I said is the government's point of view, otherwise I cannot
[02:46:12] say anything that binds the party, and it is not my place to do so.
[02:46:16] No, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying it for you.
[02:46:20] I'm generally reminding this, because HDP members
[02:46:24] also sometimes say, "We are being talked about in environments where we are not present."
[02:46:27] We are a television channel that can invite HDP deputies
[02:46:30] to our broadcasts at regular intervals after all.
[02:46:34] That's why I want to express their views
[02:46:37] that they conveyed in our invitations, so that you have the
[02:46:40] criticisms here.
[02:46:45] May I add something there? They also have valid
[02:46:50] Many politicians who accused us of supporting the AKP, etc.,
[02:46:54] are now siding with the AKP.
[02:46:57] But we are staying where we are, they say.
[02:47:01] By the way, let me also say this, this is also the case in the IMM council.
[02:47:04] Let me specifically say that. That is, in the IMM
[02:47:07] council, contrary to what is believed,
[02:47:11] in my opinion, the group that stands its ground
[02:47:15] is the IMM group, let me tell you.
[02:47:18] But now, for weeks, this has been discussed since Üsküdar.
[02:47:22] Can a situation be created in the IMM council where the HDP council members
[02:47:25] are also convinced and the IMM is taken over in another way?
[02:47:29] You say that the situation is not like that. We already see that
[02:47:33] so far, so far,
[02:47:35] under the name of "rent,"
[02:47:39] which everyone says, because even saying this could be a crime,
[02:47:42] that's why I said it in quotation marks, people who were elected,
[02:47:46] "They're gone, they're going, they'll go," etc.
[02:47:48] I saw others leave, but I didn't see any of them leave. That's why in the previous section,
[02:47:52] when discussing the parliamentary arithmetic, I said that we need to look
[02:47:55] at the number of CHP members more than the HDP
[02:47:58] in terms of passing the AKP. This needs to be known very specifically.
[02:48:02] I mean, let me reiterate
[02:48:05] that people we would never think of
[02:48:09] being appointed to positions. We saw that. They say,
[02:48:12] "I was offered a vice-chairmanship, so I went." We saw transfers in that way,
[02:48:16] but I haven't seen any other stance
[02:48:20] from these friends
[02:48:23] in parliament. I want to say that specifically.
[02:48:26] Okay, now in the previous section, we turned to Figen Çalıkuşu,
[02:48:30] but we also wonder about Ms. Figen's thoughts on this topic
[02:48:34] we discussed. Ms. Figen, what do you say about the backstage information
[02:48:37] that Nuray Babacan relayed in her article?
[02:48:40] The information she disclosed to the public, regarding what the AKP will do in the coming period.
[02:48:44] Because you said in your previous comment that
[02:48:47] if now, tomorrow, next
[02:48:50] month, the parliament convenes and a majority is achieved as the AKP wishes,
[02:48:54] and that early election date is set now,
[02:48:58] and the decision is made now, and the date is announced,
[02:49:01] then what Turkey will experience until that date is important, you said.
[02:49:04] Nuray Babacan's article also contains clues related to this.
[02:49:08] Do you also agree that the AKP
[02:49:12] might have such plans, or rather, do you think it's possible,
[02:49:14] and how can the opposition, the new party, reverse
[02:49:18] that process? Yes, Mr. Gökmen,
[02:49:21] we are already seeing this in the municipal councils.
[02:49:24] Beyond that, we are also seeing
[02:49:27] deputy transfers. They are doing these things
[02:49:30] as a preparation, whether an election decision
[02:49:33] is made or not. Ultimately,
[02:49:36] I don't think this will change. Even if an election decision
[02:49:40] is not made in this process, we will see
[02:49:43] these transitions. We will see these negotiations.
[02:49:46] Of course, unfortunately, the voters also need
[02:49:49] to think about this. Politics not caring so much
[02:49:53] about the voters, and stealing the voters' votes
[02:49:56] is very dangerous. I mean, there is a ballot box here,
[02:50:00] but it is an inadequate ballot box. Then,
[02:50:02] democracy with elections has been abandoned. It has to be admitted that
[02:50:06] elections also lose their meaning if an early election
[02:50:10] decision is made. Even if it is not made,
[02:50:13] we will see these negotiations in the period leading
[02:50:16] up to the election. This is unfortunately a very
[02:50:20] unpleasant situation. It is very problematic both for the
[02:50:23] voters and for the damage to democracy,
[02:50:26] because what we
[02:50:29] expect from democracy is not just the ballot box, but
[02:50:33] democracy has lost significant ground in terms of
[02:50:36] its institutions, the functioning of the regime, and the point
[02:50:40] the system has reached. It has eroded, and we
[02:50:43] see this getting worse. Of course, the other question
[02:50:46] you asked is important: what can be done to reverse
[02:50:50] this? What can be done to reverse this? At this
[02:50:53] point, a lot of work falls to the opposition.
[02:50:57] I should also say that we always talk about 50 + 1.
[02:51:00] It was said today that the election will be in
[02:51:04] 2028 by an advisor, but
[02:51:07] none of this is definite. A constitutional package
[02:51:11] may come before the election. Certain negotiations may
[02:51:14] require this. A draft constitution
[02:51:18] that no one can say no to may come.
[02:51:21] We should not overlook that either, because this
[02:51:25] work has been going on for a long time, as you know, and
[02:51:29] AKP is even doing this work alone,
[02:51:32] meaning its partner has no participation.
[02:51:35] There is a commission that it has established, and it has
[02:51:39] almost completed its work, because it has submitted its monthly
[02:51:43] reports. We see it in the form of small news items from time to
[02:51:46] time. This is also important. Let's not forget this detail. If
[02:51:50] it comes in another way that moves away from 50 + 1,
[02:51:53] or if they bring a system that does not contain the separation
[02:51:57] of powers but is formally called a parliamentary regime, such
[02:52:01] a proposal may also come. We should not overlook these either.
[02:52:04] I consider it probable, because there is a very serious
[02:52:08] deadlock. 50 + 1 will force a very difficult
[02:52:11] position. There are experiences
[02:52:14] from the six-party table. The partners and
[02:52:17] components of the six-party table, of course,
[02:52:20] in the sense you mentioned,
[02:52:22] the position of the conservative wing is important, but
[02:52:26] it is certain that there is resentment in the process
[02:52:29] that developed later in the six-party table. I don't know how
[02:52:33] the CHP and the currently separated group will clarify
[02:52:36] their stance towards the new party. If they make significant
[02:52:40] contributions to the constitutional amendment and see
[02:52:44] changes that satisfy them, they can also act together.
[02:52:47] I want to emphasize this. What have we seen in these elections
[02:52:51] so far? Generally, despite
[02:52:54] the fact that people have very serious economic problems,
[02:52:58] which have now become more severe,
[02:53:01] what was emphasized was identity and belonging
[02:53:03] politics, that is, divisions based on cultural
[02:53:06] identities, religious and ethnic identities,
[02:53:10] existential issues, security issues, etc. We are now
[02:53:13] seeing examples of these.
[02:53:15] The latest operation is also
[02:53:18] related to this. As mentioned earlier, measures
[02:53:21] were taken in this way on accounts
[02:53:24] that are not related to different accounts. For example,
[02:53:28] a journalist, Tuğba Tekerek, was arrested, wasn't
[02:53:31] she? We saw the same attitude of consolidating
[02:53:35] a distinction through identity politics just now.
[02:53:38] So, there is a need for a language that will
[02:53:41] shake identity politics, a language that will be inclusive.
[02:53:44] The opposition needs to do this collectively.
[02:53:48] Yes, the pressure is very high. People may be
[02:53:51] hesitant to speak out in this regard, but
[02:53:54] politicians are more comfortable in this regard.
[02:53:57] At least they have immunity in this sense. Yes,
[02:54:00] they will struggle with the new party.
[02:54:04] I think they will also work on IMM.
[02:54:08] There will be continuous work on other municipalities,
[02:54:11] metropolitan municipalities, that they did not win.
[02:54:15] I don't think they will stop. We may also see other
[02:54:19] parties changing their positions in connection with this
[02:54:22] constitutional amendment. But I don't know, honestly.
[02:54:25] If the election is postponed to 2028,
[02:54:29] we have a huge 2027 ahead of us. We should not
[02:54:32] underestimate this. Of course, they will come with social
[02:54:35] assistance. They will take measures
[02:54:38] so that the voters do not change their preferences
[02:54:42] due to economic problems. At this point, the voters'
[02:54:45] trust in the opposition needs to increase.
[02:54:48] Unfortunately, these lawsuits
[02:54:51] are a very destructive process, but their internal
[02:54:55] conflicts are another problem. The fact that the name of a
[02:54:59] party, that is, the new party, has been debated for a long
[02:55:01] time is truly exhausting. It may be considered
[02:55:05] important that it is mentioned often, but experiencing
[02:55:09] hesitation even in a party name causes problems.
[02:55:12] I personally worry that this will be left to the Constitutional
[02:55:16] Court. I personally worry. When and how the Constitutional
[02:55:20] Court will make a decision, and whether it will cause
[02:55:23] a problem or not, is a big obstacle, a
[02:55:26] surprise. This needs to be eliminated.
[02:55:30] That is, the opposition,
[02:55:32] I'm not just talking about the new party, but the opposition
[02:55:36] bloc needs to take certain
[02:55:39] measures more carefully against
[02:55:41] the strategies of the political power. And
[02:55:45] also, these changes in preferences, that is,
[02:55:48] and under pressure,
[02:55:52] they happened due to pressure. These are known. We all
[02:55:56] accept the pressure, but there are also choices that
[02:55:59] we found to be very inappropriate. Here, AKP wanted to
[02:56:02] show that, in the end, there is a big
[02:56:05] misconception here. Look, with this big misconception,
[02:56:09] they achieved this difficult situation, like our side
[02:56:12] that was chosen. They say that the opposition is being
[02:56:16] neutralized. Here, a strategy is being carried out on
[02:56:19] multiple fronts, that is, operations, pressures aimed
[02:56:23] at changing preferences, etc. For all of these,
[02:56:26] very careful measures need to be taken. As I said,
[02:56:30] I think we will see more identity politics
[02:56:33] from now on. This big operation is a sign of
[02:56:36] this, its spokesperson. There is a need for another
[02:56:40] language that will shake this. We need to see
[02:56:43] an opposition that has left its internal problems and difficulties
[02:56:47] aside. But can there be a language that will
[02:56:49] ensure unity for the conservative wing
[02:56:53] in terms of both CHP and the party?
[02:56:56] That is, when I say the conservative wing, I want
[02:56:59] to remind you of the example of the six-party table.
[02:57:03] Problems were created in that process as well.
[02:57:07] If it's 2028, there's a process, a time to
[02:57:10] address all of these. But a constitutional amendment
[02:57:14] can come earlier. Let's not underestimate this,
[02:57:17] because I don't think this will be done from the beginning
[02:57:21] with AKP's secret agenda that continues without even
[02:57:24] including its partner. This tells us that the probability
[02:57:27] is high. What is your opinion on this
[02:57:30] issue briefly? Then I will turn to my other
[02:57:34] guests. If such an early election is decided at
[02:57:38] an early date and passed by the parliament,
[02:57:42] will the constitutional amendment
[02:57:44] be removed from the agenda of the government,
[02:57:48] or will the plans regarding the constitutional
[02:57:51] amendment continue, but will they feel more
[02:57:54] comfortable then? They will undoubtedly
[02:57:58] feel more comfortable, but if a constitutional
[02:58:02] amendment is made, the election system after the constitutional
[02:58:06] amendment will also change. I don't know what kind of
[02:58:09] regulation they will come with. Therefore, today's
[02:58:13] comments, that is, Nuray Hanım's comments and the information
[02:58:16] she received, are valuable, but I have always
[02:58:19] seen that the political power, AKP, does
[02:58:23] not do what it says. We have seen that the stated
[02:58:26] actions are different. Therefore, they are at an
[02:58:29] important crossroads. Perhaps they have not
[02:58:33] yet decided on this matter, but what I see is that
[02:58:37] Devlet Bahçeli insisted on 50 + 1 for a very long
[02:58:41] time. But now we don't hear this from him, and
[02:58:44] recently we started hearing about a constitutional
[02:58:48] amendment from him, and he says, "Yes, there
[02:58:52] are aspects of the regime that need to be corrected."
[02:58:55] Now, these are the things that are being discussed
[02:58:58] in between, but the early election discussions
[02:59:02] are more prominent. If they decide on the constitution,
[02:59:05] a different calendar will apply after the constitution.
[02:59:08] It would be healthier to comment after seeing
[02:59:11] the constitution when the package comes, but let's
[02:59:15] not forget that in this last framework law,
[02:59:18] they got 467 votes, if I'm not mistaken, didn't
[02:59:22] they, Gökmen Bey? With the articles they will regulate in the constitution
[02:59:26] and the changes in the regime, they can
[02:59:29] also get over 400 votes for a package
[02:59:33] that no one can say no to, for example, if the budget
[02:59:36] changes, if the mother tongue education, citizenship
[02:59:40] definition changes, or if they want to try themselves
[02:59:43] in a referendum. All of these need to be
[02:59:46] anticipated. That's why I said that there is
[02:59:50] a need for a different, inclusive, polarizing
[02:59:54] and shaking language that will reverse these
[02:59:57] strategies and that the opposition is ahead in
[03:00:00] economic preferences in the public. As Lenin
[03:00:04] said, inflation is our biggest enemy.
[03:00:07] They cannot fix the economy. I agree with you on
[03:00:11] this. For them to fix it, they need to return
[03:00:13] to strict law, structural reforms. Look, Mehmet
[03:00:16] Şimşek, if I'm not mistaken, it's been over
[03:00:20] 3 years, and what was his first word, Gökmen
[03:00:23] Bey? It was to return to rationality. What
[03:00:26] is our rationality right now? Is the
[03:00:30] plunder of this seven-portfolio company our rationality?
[03:00:34] Is the continuous decline of the economic program
[03:00:37] our rationality? So, the problem there is big.
[03:00:41] Fixing the economy would be a very temporary
[03:00:45] solution, and they also see that it won't work.
[03:00:48] They may also be taking measures to fix this
[03:00:51] system, this regime. A request for public
[03:00:55] support may also come from here, saying, "Yes,
[03:00:58] the system is changing, the regime is changing, a
[03:01:02] new constitutional package is coming."
[03:01:05] Viewers are sending us messages like this.
[03:01:09] First of all, one of our viewers wrote about
[03:01:12] this execution. Kenan Birkan says, "The punishment
[03:01:16] is the same, the crime is the same, the person is the
[03:01:20] same. He is a citizen of the same legal order.
[03:01:23] So why is the execution different? The difference
[03:01:26] that emerged in the July 31st Covid law
[03:01:29] must have a reasonable and fair justification.
[03:01:32] Our demand is very clear: equality and justice."
[03:01:36] Batı Tunç said, "More
[03:01:39] economy should be discussed."
[03:01:41] We are discussing a lot of economy in this
[03:01:45] program, Batı Bey, and my professor
[03:01:49] is here, and my other
[03:01:51] guests, despite it not
[03:01:53] being their field, are interested in economics
[03:01:57] and are sharing their comments with us. But of
[03:02:00] course, you are also right, that is, diesel
[03:02:04] fuel, the stock market, poverty,
[03:02:07] and then the forests and lands
[03:02:11] that are sold, the hunger of pensioners, the
[03:02:14] minimum wage, unemployed youth. Our viewer mentions
[03:02:18] these. One of our viewers said, "He
[03:02:21] was also a little angry, but not at us, but
[03:02:25] at the opposition. He says, 'You say Erdoğan
[03:02:29] cannot be a candidate, but every night in the
[03:02:32] polls, you are competing him as
[03:02:35] a candidate. You position Erdoğan as
[03:02:38] a candidate in the polls and discuss him.'" Yes,
[03:02:42] he seems a little angry at you too, professor,
[03:02:45] but you are the political scientist. I think he's
[03:02:49] angry at the YSK. The citizen is right.
[03:02:53] We are also angry at the YSK. I mean, if he
[03:02:57] cannot be a candidate, then the polls should
[03:03:00] ask who will win instead of Erdoğan,
[03:03:04] not who will win against Erdoğan.
[03:03:07] Believe the rhetoric or the poll, not both at the
[03:03:11] same time. The opposition cannot establish a politics
[03:03:14] without Erdoğan. Here, he criticizes the opposition.
[03:03:18] We are acting on the assumption that the current law is invalid,
[03:03:21] because that's what's actually happening. Actually, the citizen's
[03:03:25] reaction is correct, but you can't
[03:03:28] conduct a program by assuming that such
[03:03:31] a situation doesn't exist. You said something here
[03:03:34] that seemed like a scolding to me, so no, it's
[03:03:38] not. No, it's not. One second,
[03:03:42] Ms. Pigen, if I don't read this
[03:03:45] message completely,
[03:03:47] one of our citizens will bombard me.
[03:03:50] This continues. The opposition says
[03:03:53] it cannot establish a politics without Erdoğan.
[03:03:56] This might actually be a criticism that
[03:03:59] the opposition can take seriously,
[03:04:03] in the sense of establishing a politics that leaves
[03:04:06] him in the background. It constantly defines
[03:04:09] itself through him, which refutes its own
[03:04:13] argument. As a result, there
[03:04:16] is a serious strategic
[03:04:20] inconsistency. That's a very good point. Yes,
[03:04:24] I read it from beginning to end. The name of the voyager
[03:04:28] scribe is also voyager scribe.
[03:04:30] Bahtisen Beyazyavuz also
[03:04:33] said something like this: "All comments ignore
[03:04:37] the public." Don't misunderstand, not your
[03:04:40] comments. I just mentioned Mehmet Uçum's words,
[03:04:44] Mr. Şamil Tayyar's, and so on,
[03:04:47] what Nuray Babacan conveyed based on AKP
[03:04:51] backstage information, "they will do this,
[03:04:54] they will trick their old friends like that," etc.
[03:04:57] These comments, he says, "ignore
[03:05:01] the public, are not even close to
[03:05:05] what reflexes they will show, and are
[03:05:09] merely abstract and unrealistic
[03:05:12] words in line with the wishes of party
[03:05:15] elites." If you went among
[03:05:19] the people and looked, you would see that they
[03:05:22] are waiting with their cards open, he says.
[03:05:26] According to our viewer, they have opened their
[03:05:29] cards and are waiting. There is also a comment
[03:05:32] from a citizen about a fund. He asked
[03:05:36] a question about a fund he bought. Did you
[03:05:39] see that? I haven't answered it yet. He
[03:05:43] bought a money market fund from Tera,
[03:05:47] and he wrote below it, "What about our fund?"
[03:05:50] He is asking. It will be answered
[03:05:53] when the time comes. Actually, under normal
[03:05:56] circumstances, I will tell you, there
[03:06:00] is a strange situation there. Under normal
[03:06:04] circumstances, money market funds are the most liquid
[03:06:07] assets, and there should be no risk there. But
[03:06:10] here, there is a problem with the TP2 fund
[03:06:14] that the citizen mentioned, and there is already
[03:06:19] a legal process ongoing. Normally, reverse repo
[03:06:21] transactions constitute about 65-75%
[03:06:25] of it. These are supported by government
[03:06:28] debt securities, and these are assets
[03:06:31] that can be easily converted into cash.
[03:06:35] However, in this example, there is a situation
[03:06:38] where a stock of an institution is used to
[03:06:41] provide financial support to it. This is actually
[03:06:44] contrary to the nature of that instrument.
[03:06:48] Therefore, an arrest operation has already
[03:06:51] taken place there. That process seems
[03:06:54] to be turning into a more legal process.
[03:06:58] A loss may occur in its share ratio
[03:07:01] there, of course. But apart from that,
[03:07:05] it is a guaranteed fund compared to other
[03:07:09] stock funds. Thank you very much, professor,
[03:07:12] because we highly value the participation and
[03:07:15] questions of our citizens. We are broadcasting
[03:07:19] in such an interaction. Ms. Pigen, did you also
[03:07:23] want to add something? I wanted to say that
[03:07:26] those who ask about the execution package
[03:07:30] We already talk about it at other
[03:07:33] times, but thank goodness,
[03:07:36] as you know, it happens in programs.
[03:07:39] Yes, I think it will be addressed
[03:07:43] in a process. That is, after this
[03:07:46] framework, the execution package will also
[03:07:50] be looked at collectively. That's my expectation.
[03:07:54] Okay, okay. Fikret Abi, Şamil Tayyar
[03:07:57] says, "I have a suggestion. Let's announce the early
[03:08:01] election date." That is, it can be announced
[03:08:04] like this: "Let's make this decision in the parliament now.
[03:08:08] Let's make an early early election decision,"
[03:08:11] he says. That is, the early
[03:08:15] election itself is not very early, only
[03:08:19] one month before the normal election, but
[03:08:22] he says, "Let's make this decision early." Yes.
[03:08:26] "In that case," he says, "stress will decrease,
[03:08:30] normalization will begin." That is, does he mean
[03:08:33] that peace will come to the country? I don't
[03:08:36] know what he means, but what do you think,
[03:08:39] Fikret Abi? Shamil's approach
[03:08:42] there, as I stated earlier, is to guarantee
[03:08:45] that President Erdoğan will be a candidate
[03:08:48] again. The atmosphere in the parliament is currently suitable.
[03:08:52] A process is being carried out with the
[03:08:55] Den Party. If the Den Party's expectations
[03:08:58] are met, even partially,
[03:09:02] they can get support. Independents can be
[03:09:05] guaranteed re-election. And if they get closer
[03:09:08] to other parties like Deva, Yeniden Refah,
[03:09:11] and guarantee their re-entry into the parliament,
[03:09:14] this support will be provided, and an
[03:09:17] early election decision that will enable President
[03:09:20] Erdoğan to be a candidate again will be taken
[03:09:23] now. There is a sense of urgency
[03:09:27] in this proposal, because perhaps next
[03:09:31] year, when an early election decision is
[03:09:34] taken, the stance of the parties
[03:09:37] in the parliament may change. The Den
[03:09:41] Party's stance may also change. They may not
[03:09:44] be able to make an early election decision.
[03:09:48] They may not find this majority. In
[03:09:52] that case, Mr. Erdoğan cannot be a candidate
[03:09:55] again. These are statements aimed at eliminating
[03:09:58] this risk. That is, Mr. President also
[03:10:02] said that we will overcome the early election. There, he
[03:10:06] is actually reflecting a problem when he
[03:10:09] says "we will overcome," not "we will pass,
[03:10:13] we will succeed," but "we will overcome,"
[03:10:16] implying a problematic situation.
[03:10:20] When Mr. Bahçeli says that we have
[03:10:23] to make some regulations, the election threshold
[03:10:26] may be lowered so that MHP does
[03:10:30] not face the threshold problem. There is such
[03:10:33] an approach. However, if the government accepts
[03:10:37] and implements the changes that the Den Party
[03:10:40] wants in the constitution, it can gather a
[03:10:43] very strong reaction from the voters.
[03:10:47] For example, changing the definition of citizenship,
[03:10:50] that is, removing the word "Turk" from there,
[03:10:53] or as Dem requested, including Kurds as
[03:10:57] a founding nation in the constitution, and accepting
[03:11:01] Kurdish as an official language of education.
[03:11:03] They have expectations like changing 42 articles.
[03:11:07] These are very big decisions. These would
[03:11:10] be changes that are incompatible with the characteristics
[03:11:14] of the Republic of Turkey founded by Atatürk.
[03:11:17] A very strong reaction can come from the voters,
[03:11:21] a very strong reaction can come from the public.
[03:11:24] So, that side also needs to be explored.
[03:11:28] That is, what do the voters say, what does
[03:11:32] the public say, what does the majority say?
[03:11:35] Because I reminded you earlier, after
[03:11:39] the period of 2013-2015, in the 2015
[03:11:42] elections, the voters prevented the AK Party
[03:11:46] from being the sole ruling party. They can
[03:11:49] react in the same way again. Therefore,
[03:11:53] it may become increasingly difficult for them to
[03:11:57] achieve the result they expect. What is your
[03:12:00] opinion on this? Shamil says, "If this
[03:12:03] decision is made now," he says, "normalization
[03:12:07] will occur, stress will decrease, the country
[03:12:10] will be peaceful until that date. Will it
[03:12:14] happen?" That is, will the AK
[03:12:17] Party be relieved, Mr. Erdoğan be relieved,
[03:12:21] MHP be relieved, Bahçeli be relieved? Will such
[03:12:25] Of course, by reading the public opinion,
[03:12:28] maybe in that process, he might prefer not to take certain
[03:12:31] steps if he sees a strong reaction against him there,
[03:12:35] but we shouldn't forget that there's also a Kurdish
[03:12:38] vote he can win from his own
[03:12:41] front. So he will go to the polls and make
[03:12:45] a cost-benefit analysis there. That move didn't help him much
[03:12:49] in the past period. He will see if he can turn it
[03:12:52] to his favor with polls, he's probably already measuring the market, but
[03:12:56] as I said, unfortunately, my expectation there is not
[03:13:00] uh, like uh,
[03:13:03] it's a bit of a worrisome expectation. Maybe we had
[03:13:06] those June-November elections in the past.
[03:13:09] How did it happen that in the elections?
[03:13:14] We said, unfortunately, by increasing pressure on society,
[03:13:18] by making the opposition
[03:13:20] unable to do its job, uh, I think
[03:13:24] it will progress and try to win
[03:13:27] the election that way because otherwise, it doesn't seem
[03:13:31] very possible to turn this around. It's not something that can be
[03:13:34] done by gaining ground with small moves here and there. As I just
[03:13:37] said, people don't vote with instructions from above, and
[03:13:41] they can vote contrary to instructions from above. So, their party
[03:13:44] can be on one side, and the voter can be on the other. The most
[03:13:48] important party here is the anti-Erdoğan
[03:13:51] party or Erdoğan supporters. So, society is polarized
[03:13:55] in this way. No matter how much you try to separate them,
[03:13:59] you say Kılıçdaroğlu has support, you say so-and-so has support, but
[03:14:02] suddenly the big CHP turns into a tiny party, and as
[03:14:06] we get closer to the election, we might even see it disappear.
[03:14:10] Therefore, in such an environment, tactics like
[03:14:13] "let me create a CHP, let me create a new so-and-so, let me divide
[03:14:16] them like this" don't work. For example, in Nuray Babacan's article,
[03:14:20] there was a problem like this: splitting
[03:14:23] the conservative bloc by supporting it won't work much because
[03:14:27] they are not alternatives to each other. One votes for their own party,
[03:14:31] and on the other side, they vote for the presidential candidate,
[03:14:35] just like in the past. To do this, for example, the CHP's name is not
[03:14:38] mentioned at all. It has to support the CHP, because the new party's
[03:14:42] getting votes means the CHP's disappearance. The CHP will come out
[03:14:46] with an anti-new party propaganda. It needs to support the CHP,
[03:14:50] despite its name not being mentioned. The main problem
[03:14:53] here is that none of these are as strong
[03:14:56] as the anti-Erdoğan sentiment. Uh, a move that
[03:15:00] will change this, a move that
[03:15:02] will break this, can only happen by increasing
[03:15:05] prosperity in the economy. So, Turkey needs to open a new path,
[03:15:09] but under current conditions, it's not possible.
[03:15:12] That's why I'm returning to the same point.
[03:15:16] New moves can come that will make it impossible
[03:15:19] or difficult for the opposition to do its job.
[03:15:22] The Istanbul Municipality is one of them,
[03:15:25] a very important stage in this regard, but it can
[03:15:29] extend further. We might see other names being removed
[03:15:32] from politics, being marginalized, for example.
[03:15:36] Yes. Now,
[03:15:38] I will get my esteemed teacher Doğan's comment on this, but...
[03:15:43] Let me proceed by asking this and get his comment that way.
[03:15:46] Indeed, if the government makes an early
[03:15:50] decision on early elections and puts it in its pocket,
[03:15:53] will the period until the election
[03:15:57] be favorable for broad masses, the public,
[03:16:01] I don't know, different
[03:16:04] segments, will there be normalization or something,
[03:16:07] or will the government
[03:16:10] continue its own way
[03:16:13] regarding oppressive policies, operations,
[03:16:17] uh, I don't know, regarding non-compliance with Constitutional
[03:16:21] Court decisions, regarding those inside not being released, what do you
[03:16:24] say, professor? Now, people are naturally furious and writing on social media,
[03:16:28] etc., and they say, they react, they say, don't talk
[03:16:31] about that, talk about this, this is important, that is important, they are right,
[03:16:33] they are right, but they are wrong on this point, because
[03:16:37] whether there will be an early election
[03:16:41] or not is not a very important issue. I
[03:16:44] am generally a person who looks to the future with hope, and
[03:16:48] I believe there will be a significant transformation in Turkey in the near
[03:16:52] future, because Erdoğan, the current
[03:16:55] regime, the AKP, its current
[03:16:58] support, its social base, a significant social
[03:17:01] base continues, but the main
[03:17:04] reason for this is that it is a party state.
[03:17:07] So, because it is a party state, the system
[03:17:11] we live in, the elements of this
[03:17:14] party state, its civil servants, those who serve
[03:17:17] it, those involved in its economy and distribution
[03:17:20] system, also constitute a significant portion
[03:17:23] of the population. This is not like in old Turkey. So,
[03:17:27] the government in this respect has tied a significant
[03:17:30] part of the population to itself. Therefore,
[03:17:34] you cannot reduce the AKP's social base below a certain
[03:17:37] point, and in fact, for example,
[03:17:40] there are groups that feel
[03:17:43] compelled to continue with the AKP, primarily the elements of
[03:17:46] the People's Alliance, and apart from that, when you consider
[03:17:50] those who joined the AKP in these
[03:17:52] operations and so on, they have to continue with
[03:17:56] the AKP. So, people say, if there is so much crisis, if there is
[03:18:00] so much reaction among the public,
[03:18:03] why does this AKP government still get so many
[03:18:06] votes, even if it has decreased? It's because those
[03:18:09] people are compelled to the government, and in fact, they want it to continue.
[03:18:13] This is a very strong lobby. Let's put that aside. Secondly,
[03:18:17] whether it's an early election or not, it doesn't matter
[03:18:19] for the election, or the next election might not be
[03:18:23] very important. We must accept this. This regime is a rotten
[03:18:27] regime. There is a very strong social reaction to this regime.
[03:18:30] It cannot derive its legitimacy both in terms of international
[03:18:34] relations. Look, today, America approved 45 F35s for Saudi
[03:18:37] Arabia. We are a NATO
[03:18:40] country, it cannot give. It's struggling heavily. We will talk
[03:18:44] about it later, Trump will meet etc. Why? Because there's a legitimacy
[03:18:48] problem. We are giving it. On the international diplomacy stage,
[03:18:51] it also has very serious problems internally, and the anti-Erdoğan
[03:18:55] bloc is much bigger, but we must say this clearly: I
[03:18:58] am hopeful for the future. Erdoğan no longer has a very
[03:19:01] strong support among the oppressed, among the working class,
[03:19:05] among the middle classes, among tradesmen. Therefore,
[03:19:08] the future will be against
[03:19:11] the pillars of this regime, let me tell you that. But
[03:19:14] when it comes to the upcoming elections, early or
[03:19:18] not, we all see it in some way. We encountered this
[03:19:22] in the Üsküdar municipal elections, where
[03:19:25] people, I mean, council members, people
[03:19:27] who would vote, were detained,
[03:19:30] the municipality building was cordoned off,
[03:19:34] surrounded, people were arrested. So, it's an environment
[03:19:38] where people who would vote, transfers were made,
[03:19:41] and people were threatened with arrest.
[03:19:44] Now, what does this tell us? It tells us this:
[03:19:47] the continuation of the operation against the new party, the CHP,
[03:19:50] and the new party. What is this? You have a very serious presidential
[03:19:54] candidate. His diploma was revoked, he was arrested,
[03:19:57] he is inside. Now, look, we are going to an election in such an environment.
[03:20:01] What else happened? The main opposition party had a completely invalid
[03:20:05] management installed, it was intervened in, that party was actually
[03:20:09] shut down. We put that aside. The diploma was revoked. The opposition
[03:20:13] had a very significant local election success, it had councils,
[03:20:16] it had municipalities. Now, what is happening? Those council
[03:20:19] chairs, mayors are being arrested, imprisoned
[03:20:23] and so on. There is an operation. We say immunities can be lifted.
[03:20:26] Now, which election are we talking about? Since
[03:20:29] we are talking about an election held under these conditions,
[03:20:33] in an election held in such
[03:20:35] an environment, there is a new party
[03:20:38] standing. But only the new party. Now, we
[03:20:42] write on social media, we talk about it here, but
[03:20:46] Özgür Özel has emerged as a leader for the new party.
[03:20:50] Other parties that are anti-Erdoğan
[03:20:54] or democratic mass organizations in society,
[03:20:57] opinion leaders, journalists, what are they all doing,
[03:21:01] Mr. Gökmen?
[03:21:04] They are doing one thing: advising Özgür Özel.
[03:21:07] Are they doing anything else? There are many
[03:21:10] ways to do something in politics, democratic,
[03:21:13] legitimate, are these channels used? Are
[03:21:16] our citizens using them? Is our people using them? Are other
[03:21:20] democratic mass organizations using them? There is an organization called DISK,
[03:21:24] right? A trade union or similar organizations.
[03:21:27] Today, yes, there are very serious pressures. An incredible operation
[03:21:30] has been carried out on the Main Opposition Party.
[03:21:34] But from journalists, opinion
[03:21:37] leaders, intellectuals, democratic mass organizations, and
[03:21:40] other political parties, no one is doing anything
[03:21:43] except telling Özgür Özel what to do. Therefore,
[03:21:47] one needs to understand Özgür Özel at some point. Therefore,
[03:21:51] there is criticism from the left, and criticism from the nationalists on
[03:21:55] the right, because this society's anti-Erdoğan sentiment
[03:21:58] is a monolithic mass, meaning there are nationalists,
[03:22:02] social democrats, socialists. Everyone, what do they do? They say,
[03:22:06] the CHP has pursued a policy to persuade them with right-wing,
[03:22:09] conservative policies until today. Those on the left criticize by
[03:22:13] saying, "Well, it didn't work, so let's oppose from the left."
[03:22:16] The nationalists act by saying, "You are collaborating with the Kurds,
[03:22:20] you are acting with them." But what is Özgür Özel trying to do?
[03:22:24] The anti-Erdoğanists who are doing nothing,
[03:22:28] who are doing nothing, do we have immunity?
[03:22:31] No. But you are also a citizen.
[03:22:35] That's where Özgür Özel's difficulty lies. He has to satisfy
[03:22:38] all these people who are doing nothing but giving him advice,
[03:22:42] as a politician, of course. But under what conditions? We will
[03:22:46] go to a commercial. I'm finishing. Under what
[03:22:49] conditions does he have to satisfy them? He has to satisfy
[03:22:53] them while this enormous
[03:22:55] operation is ongoing. Okay, you will complete the sentence
[03:22:58] you left unfinished.
[03:22:59] We will continue
[03:23:31] shortly. To make the unheard heard, to say the unsaid,
[03:23:35] to show the unseen.
[03:23:45] From the street to politics, from the market to the markets,
[03:23:49] from street vendors' stalls to large supermarket shelves.
[03:24:03] Every weekday morning from 7 to 10, as Turkey
[03:24:06] wakes up. We will be together here, in this studio.
[03:24:33] "Açıkça" continues, dear viewers.
[03:24:37] How many sentences did I leave unfinished? Please, professor. So, ultimately,
[03:24:41] I was trying to say that a very serious operation
[03:24:44] is ongoing against the Main Opposition Party, from absolute nullity to
[03:24:48] diploma revocation, to operations in municipalities.
[03:24:51] And this will naturally reflect in the election.
[03:24:55] So, whether there's an early election or not, in this environment,
[03:24:59] an election will be held in an environment where such
[03:25:02] an operation is ongoing. But in the medium term, the opposition
[03:25:05] needs to stand firm, collect itself, and not be demoralized.
[03:25:09] The important thing is for the opposition to stand with a will to democratize
[03:25:13] the regime in Turkey in the medium term. It's not like
[03:25:17] I'm sulking. If this doesn't happen, in this climate,
[03:25:21] where there's a one-party rule, the main opposition party that
[03:25:25] is trying to stand firm under these conditions and is left alone,
[03:25:28] because, as I just said, from intellectuals
[03:25:31] to university professors, from democratic mass
[03:25:34] organizations to other opposition political parties, they are nowhere
[03:25:45] to be seen. Therefore, as you reflect, we should
[03:25:49] not be too pessimistic. In the medium term, there are
[03:25:52] very significant reasons to be hopeful, but this election is not
[03:25:55] a life-or-death election for Turkey. In such an environment
[03:25:59] where there is a one-party rule, where a party
[03:26:02] state has formed, and where Turkey is governed
[03:26:05] by operations in this
[03:26:08] way, how this first upcoming election will unfold
[03:26:11] will not determine our fate. Okay, now let's
[03:26:15] ask İsmail Emre Telci this. We can come back
[03:26:18] to these issues if needed, but a very striking moment
[03:26:21] happened in the IMM case. A defendant
[03:26:25] on the stand, that's right. Yes,
[03:26:27] cried. A statement regarding this issue came from the Presidential
[03:26:30] Candidate Office, friends. I'll ask you to give me
[03:26:33] visual 6, visual number 6. What happened during
[03:26:37] the hearing of the IMM case? The message from the Presidential
[03:26:41] Candidate Office shares it as follows: Tears on
[03:26:45] the stand. Tears on
[03:26:47] the stand. For the IMM investigation, I've been saying the same
[03:26:51] thing for months. Spouses, children were
[03:26:54] targeted and taken hostage. I said that informant-ship came with persecution of families.
[03:26:58] A live example of this was experienced yesterday on the stand before the court.
[03:27:02] "Yesterday" means the day before yesterday.
[03:27:05] It was thrown yesterday.
[03:27:10] This 30-year-old asked:
[03:27:15] "Would you have given this statement if your son hadn't been arrested?"
[03:27:18] Ali Sukas, the General Manager of Ağaşe, who was subjected to the
[03:27:22] ugly accusations of his 30-year-long family friend, asked him:
[03:27:25] "Would you have given this statement if your son hadn't been arrested?" This
[03:27:29] question made the defendant on the stand cry, tears flowed.
[03:27:33] The defendant on the stand, over 60 years old, while wiping
[03:27:37] his tears at his friend's question, could only say,
[03:27:40] "I don't want to answer this question." This question made the defendant
[03:27:43] on the stand cry, tears flowed. The defendant
[03:27:47] on the stand, over 60 years old, while wiping his
[03:27:50] tears at his friend's question, could only say, "I don't want to answer
[03:27:54] this question." There will surely be a price
[03:27:57] for these sighs, and this injustice will surely have a consequence
[03:28:01] in fair judgment. İsmail Bey, what exactly happened there? What was
[03:28:04] the incident? So, the incident is this: the person
[03:28:07] who gave this statement, "Mengir, uh,
[03:28:11] his son Yücel Mengir and his son-in-law Dinçer Kantar are also arrested in this case.
[03:28:14] The initial claim is that there are 500
[03:28:18] million liras of earnings. To get this, they are released by giving effective
[03:28:22] repentance statements about having transferred their 50 million liras of properties
[03:28:25] at low prices on paper. Now,
[03:28:28] Ali Sukas naturally asked him this in the
[03:28:31] hearing, "Did I ever seek
[03:28:34] any benefit from you?" He said, "No." He asked again about
[03:28:37] the veracity of these matters. He said, "Absolutely no such things happened."
[03:28:41] And finally, he asked
[03:28:44] this question: "If your son hadn't been arrested,
[03:28:48] would you have given such a statement?" The man couldn't take it and
[03:28:51] cried on the stand, and said, "I don't want to answer
[03:28:54] this question." Now,
[03:28:56] what the honorable president wrote is actually
[03:29:00] this incident. Now, these things are happening before
[03:29:04] our eyes. Look, they are happening every day.
[03:29:07] What lies beneath his crying? What lies beneath
[03:29:11] his crying is this: he has a friend, Mr. Ali, a very close
[03:29:14] family friend. And
[03:29:18] it's the outward expression of the injustice he committed
[03:29:22] in the past, completely. Because
[03:29:24] one of the biggest accusations against
[03:29:28] Ali Sukas is this. And many people
[03:29:31] gave such statements against Ali Sukas in the Ağaç
[03:29:35] case, and almost all of them retracted
[03:29:38] their statements when they gave their testimony before the court.
[03:29:41] This was
[03:29:43] the last link in the chain, but it was the first time I saw
[03:29:46] such an emotional outburst on the stand.
[03:29:58] Because the question is very clear: "Would you have given such a statement
[03:30:01] if your son hadn't been arrested?" No, look, this is an incident
[03:30:04] that has happened many times. Murat Kapkin knows about this.
[03:30:08] Murat Kapkin's place in the advertising file, in the media advertising
[03:30:11] file, was seen as one of the most important and the indictment
[03:30:15] was built upon his effective repentance. Murat Kapkin openly
[03:30:18] said, "When I was taken in, I was informed
[03:30:22] that my wife was also in custody, and I was
[03:30:25] forced to give such a statement." These are things openly stated
[03:30:29] in court. Look, yesterday, Murat Ongun, when the last
[03:30:32] statements were finished, by the way, let me also say this, he
[03:30:34] finished at around 7
[03:30:37] o'clock today, and he also finished
[03:30:40] a bit early yesterday,
[03:30:44] so let's say these things so that they don't tell us tomorrow
[03:30:48] that we didn't say them. Murat Ongun specifically took the floor and used
[03:30:51] this sentence: "Mr. President, you bring
[03:30:54] everyone here,
[03:30:56] these people, especially those who give effective repentance
[03:30:59] statements, you ask them at first, 'Do you repeat
[03:31:03] your statements?' Yes, I repeat my statements. 'Do you stand
[03:31:07] by your words?' I stand by them." What happens 5 minutes
[03:31:09] later? During cross-examination,
[03:31:13] it becomes clear that all of these people,
[03:31:16] almost all of them, look, except for one or two exceptions,
[03:31:20] they apparently
[03:31:23] think that if they
[03:31:26] retract their statements, they will be arrested at any moment.
[03:31:30] That's why I think they are doing this.
[03:31:33] 5 minutes later, during cross-examination, "No, I actually didn't
[03:31:36] see such a thing. I said what I heard. I
[03:31:40] recounted what I heard." We witness them giving
[03:31:43] statements like this. He asked, "Who will protect our rights and
[03:31:46] our law?" very clearly. Because the same thing
[03:31:50] happened yesterday. Look, an effective repentance witness named Kabil Taşçı came out,
[03:31:53] and he also gave a statement in the same way about bribery,
[03:31:57] corruption in tenders, and so on. He said,
[03:32:00] "Am I involved in such a thing? Did you see such a thing?" No, I didn't see
[03:32:04] it. Finally, he said, "I heard it from my close friend
[03:32:07] Vedat." He gave such a statement. Look, all of these are in the records.
[03:32:11] We keep coming here and telling
[03:32:14] that this file is not like that, that there is no evidence
[03:32:17] in this file, that there is nothing
[03:32:20] in this file except for effective repentance statements.
[03:32:24] Look, we say it many times. For example, yesterday,
[03:32:28] another friend
[03:32:31] came to the stand, one of the effective
[03:32:34] repentance witnesses, who had given a statement against him. He shouted
[03:32:37] and explained, "I went to a man in the tender earnings
[03:32:41] unit, had him sign the document, and left."
[03:32:44] Whereas the man, in his effective repentance statement, said, "They
[03:32:48] were organizing the tenders among
[03:32:50] themselves..." It's absurd! I mean, I've only seen him once in my
[03:32:54] life. How could I have sat down and told him my secrets
[03:32:57] like that, and so on? It's always
[03:33:00] the same story, always the same things.
[03:33:02] Therefore, that emotional outburst is
[03:33:06] the ultimate point things have reached. What should normally
[03:33:09] happen is that all those who give such
[03:33:12] statements should either be processed legally at the
[03:33:16] very end of the statement, but not to serve as a deterrent
[03:33:20] to others. You will process them legally, you will prosecute
[03:33:23] them, or you will say that there is no proper
[03:33:27] indictment here, and in this file,
[03:33:30] we must immediately end these arrests.
[03:33:33] You need to say this, but this is not being said
[03:33:37] persistently. Look, at the end of the last hearing,
[03:33:40] during the monthly detention review, the prosecutor's
[03:33:43] office, like a joke, requested the continuation of everyone's detention.
[03:33:47] Two people were released, and the prosecutor's office even
[03:33:50] objected to that. So, the situation has reached the point
[03:33:53] where there is no trial here, there is
[03:33:57] no judicial activity here. There is stubbornness here,
[03:34:01] there is stubbornness here. "We closed you in here,
[03:34:05] and we won't release you until we get a result,"
[03:34:08] is the underlying message being given to people
[03:34:11] and society. However, this is
[03:34:15] an absolutely unacceptable situation. Look, I just
[03:34:18] explained here, for example, hearings continue until late
[03:34:22] at night and so on. We explain how much the effective repentance
[03:34:26] statements have been retracted. Even the simplest
[03:34:29] statements, look, something like this happened?
[03:34:34] Look, there are situations of those with a single action accusation against them.
[03:34:38] Did something like this happen? İsmail Hüsnü
[03:34:42] Yüksel Tunar says yes, "Do you know me?" he asks.
[03:34:46] Dinçer Kantar says no. His son-in-law Hüsnü
[03:34:49] Yüksel Tunar then says, "I am the person you said
[03:34:52] you handed the money to." Yes, that was the son-in-law of
[03:34:56] the person who cried. For example,
[03:34:59] he gave such a statement. He asks, "Do you know me?"
[03:35:03] "No, I don't know you," he says. "You don't know me?"
[03:35:06] "I am the person you said you gave the money to," he
[03:35:10] says. Now, look, sometimes when
[03:35:13] we explain these things here, I think we are telling
[03:35:17] fables like ballads or mythology. But these
[03:35:21] are real, these are happening. I mean,
[03:35:24] for example, I say in my police statement or prosecutor's statement,
[03:35:28] etc., in a way that will go into the indictment, "I gave
[03:35:31] money to İsmail Emre Telci." Then I meet İsmail
[03:35:35] Emre Telci in the courtroom, and he says to me, "Gökmen,
[03:35:39] do you know me?" I say, "I don't know İsmail." He says, "Then why
[03:35:42] did you give me money?" So, he says, "I am the person you claim
[03:35:45] to have given money to." But look, these scenes happen
[03:35:49] almost every day. Look, they happen every day.
[03:35:52] And what was the peak of these? It was Ertan Yıldız's statement.
[03:35:56] In Ertan Yıldız's statement, the lawyers of Fatih
[03:36:00] Keleş cut his third question.
[03:36:04] Yes. They pulled him out of there. Look, if there is
[03:36:08] a trial, really, yes, there are certain things that need to be done
[03:36:11] for it to be done properly. Firstly, the detentions must
[03:36:14] be ended immediately. Secondly, Ekrem İmamoğlu's
[03:36:18] defense must be taken, a reasonable period of time needs to be
[03:36:21] determined and given. Why isn't it one or two days? It's not too
[03:36:25] much. Mr. Ekrem is not asking for 20 days, not asking for
[03:36:28] 10 days, 4-5 days is fine, three, some.
[03:36:32] "The cross-examinations of effective repenters,
[03:36:35] those whose interrogations were cut short,
[03:36:38] whom we call effective slanderers, need to be completed,
[03:36:41] they need to be brought back, the question-and-answer
[03:36:45] process needs to be completed, even formally,
[03:36:49] these need to be done. Look, even if these are done,
[03:36:52] I don't see any trial in progress. I understand,
[03:36:56] because why, I will tell you the last part,
[03:37:00] what did the chairman say when the interrogation was interrupted?
[03:37:03] If you make it an appeal reason, we will never forget this.
[03:37:06] An appeal reason, when does it happen?
[03:37:10] If a decision against you comes out, then you appeal
[03:37:12] the file. The adverse decision
[03:37:16] has been made, understand me? The point is,
[03:37:19] your opinion is in that direction, then the chairman should correct it. Yes, no, no, you are
[03:37:23] making such an assumption under this statement. Of course, if he said, "I said it
[03:37:27] by mistake, it just slipped out," but these
[03:37:30] words are not something that can slip out of one's mouth
[03:37:34] by mistake. I especially want to note this here. Well then,
[03:37:37] uh, former MASAK Vice President Ramazan Başak
[03:37:41] is also our guest in this segment via remote connection.
[03:37:44] Welcome, Mr. Ramazan. Hello, Mr. Gökmen, greetings to
[03:37:48] our guests. Hello, thank you very much.
[03:37:52] Uh, Mr. Ramazan, there is a publication called
[03:37:54] Bloomberg, it said that this is like a 20 billion dollar
[03:37:58] thing, meaning that explosion in funds, the bubble
[03:38:01] burst. The system collapsed, etc. So, we are talking
[03:38:04] about a 20 billion dollar thing, a story, it's
[03:38:08] not small. Now, there's a part of this
[03:38:11] that's like a house participation house, the part about those companies.
[03:38:15] Then there's the holding that encompasses
[03:38:18] them making a mess, it's
[03:38:21] fumbling. And then this time, there's the stock market
[03:38:25] crash, and some funds
[03:38:28] are doing something, what is it? A Tera Pusula Tera.
[03:38:32] Tera to
[03:38:33] Pusula.
[03:38:36] We can say their names, right? It's affecting many places, and
[03:38:39] then after
[03:38:43] that, it's clear in the news.
[03:38:50] also said, "I would like to state here clearly that my
[03:38:53] respect, love, and faith in our President and his team, who work day
[03:38:57] and night for the independence of our country, are endless.
[03:39:00] In line with the national vision represented by our President,
[03:39:04] we will resolutely maintain our domestic and national stance not only
[03:39:07] in the financial field but also in every platform
[03:39:10] and every level of responsibility
[03:39:13] that our country needs." You are a financial crime expert,
[03:39:16] you are the former Deputy Head of MASAK. What happened
[03:39:20] here, what triggered it, where was the mistake made, where
[03:39:22] is the negligence?
[03:39:26] Now, Mr. Gökmen,
[03:39:28] this event, considering that the Capital Markets Board
[03:39:32] was established in 1981, is the most destructive
[03:39:36] and most trust-eroding event in the 45-year history
[03:39:39] of capital markets, and the one where
[03:39:42] the most investors were victimized. Let's
[03:39:45] add a fourth point: These crimes were committed
[03:39:48] knowingly and openly in front of the authorities, causing
[03:39:52] this damage, this loss of trust,
[03:39:56] and victimizing millions, hundreds of thousands
[03:39:59] of investors. This is the biggest
[03:40:02] event. Let's make this
[03:40:05] clear. So, how did we get
[03:40:09] to this point? Unfortunately, we reached this
[03:40:12] point as a result of certain
[03:40:16] networks or ill-intentioned
[03:40:19] people performing market manipulation
[03:40:23] operations on certain stocks,
[03:40:26] which led to an abnormal increase
[03:40:29] in the value of those stocks.
[03:40:32] This caused the situation. Among these, today,
[03:40:35] the subject of the investigation is Tera, Pusula,
[03:40:38] and also groups related to support or target.
[03:40:42] More groups will emerge, because this... by detaching,
[03:40:50] 100 times, 200 times,
[03:40:56] 300 times, 400 times, the increase
[03:41:00] through some dubious transactions
[03:41:03] is the main reason for the damage experienced today.
[03:41:06] Now, when these abnormal value increases
[03:41:10] were created as a result of this
[03:41:13] fraudulent process in these stocks, they were transferred to funds,
[03:41:17] to investment funds. First, they were taken
[03:41:20] into investment funds, closed investment funds,
[03:41:24] and the values of these stocks, which were illiquid,
[03:41:27] had a low public float, and were thought to be easily
[03:41:30] raised and manipulated,
[03:41:34] were abnormally increased in these closed
[03:41:38] funds through dubious transactions.
[03:41:40] Then these were opened to investors
[03:41:43] on TEFAS. Investors were opened.
[03:41:46] Naturally, as investors were directed to these
[03:41:50] investment funds, which had reached such
[03:41:53] high values and increased at such high rates,
[03:41:57] also due to the influence of social media and certain
[03:42:00] guidance, a second fuel
[03:42:03] was, in a sense, poured into the tanks
[03:42:07] of these people. With these incoming supports,
[03:42:11] these manipulative movements, meaning value increases,
[03:42:14] reached abnormal levels. Now,
[03:42:17] for a very long time, these manipulative movements
[03:42:21] and market manipulation activities
[03:42:25] were known. Uh, we started expressing
[03:42:28] this much earlier. Personally, I started
[03:42:32] writing about these from April 2025
[03:42:35] and directly applied to the relevant state institutions
[03:42:39] for measures to be taken. However,
[03:42:43] these were not taken
[03:42:46] into consideration. But in the 2025
[03:42:49] Capital Markets Congress, Mr. Mehmet Şimşek and the former
[03:42:53] CMB chairman had already said, "We know about the manipulations
[03:42:56] in the stock market, we will take action." As I said, these movements
[03:43:00] had already started before that and were
[03:43:03] known by name. But for some reason,
[03:43:06] the authority did not take any measures,
[03:43:09] causing the problem to grow. But the
[03:43:13] most concrete situation,
[03:43:15] as I said, at the Congress, both the minister
[03:43:18] and the former CMB chairman made a statement on
[03:43:22] this, saying, "We know." So, were any measures taken
[03:43:26] until August 2026? No measures were taken. Therefore,
[03:43:29] the problem grew, and the value increases
[03:43:32] through the dubious transactions I mentioned
[03:43:36] earlier multiplied. At the end of August,
[03:43:39] of course, foreign organizations warned Turkey,
[03:43:43] gave deadlines, saying,
[03:43:45] "If you don't comply, we will remove you from the index, we will do
[03:43:49] this and that." Due to these influences,
[03:43:52] the CMB decided to take measures,
[03:43:55] to make regulations.
[03:43:57] However, it was delayed so much and the problem
[03:44:01] was magnified to such an extent that
[03:44:04] any measure you take
[03:44:07] will not have any effect
[03:44:10] in remedying the damage. Yes, it will have an effect
[03:44:14] on preventing such dubious transactions
[03:44:17] in the future and reducing them, and two dates were given,
[03:44:21] October and December. So, the immediate
[03:44:24] cessation of these manipulative or dubious transactions
[03:44:28] was not ensured either. A transition period was given:
[03:44:32] "You will do these things until October 31st, and these until December
[03:44:36] 2026, and after that, you will no longer be able
[03:44:39] to do the transactions you have been doing until now."
[03:44:42] However, the damage that occurred until August,
[03:44:46] meaning the abnormal increase in stock values and their transfer to funds,
[03:44:50] and the public offering of these
[03:44:54] funds, resulted in visible damage. How can
[03:45:00] these be...? When the stocks
[03:45:04] start to reach their real value, which is inevitable,
[03:45:07] because there's no other way for it to be,
[03:45:11] those stocks were sold with a dream,
[03:45:14] meaning non-existent values were sold. For example,
[03:45:18] today, a factoring company with 150 employees,
[03:45:21] if you combine Yapı Kredi and Garanti Bank,
[03:45:24] a target holding of 18
[03:45:27] is working, meaning, you look at it,
[03:45:31] it can become the second largest company in Turkey by
[03:45:34] value. You look at small companies, many industrial
[03:45:37] establishments, the most well-established industrial establishments
[03:45:40] in Turkey have reached a higher value. How did they reach
[03:45:44] it? Completely through dubious transactions, through mutual transactions,
[03:45:48] through organized transactions, in front of the authorities'
[03:45:52] eyes, knowingly and openly, these transactions took place.
[03:45:55] Therefore, when it came to August
[03:45:57] 2026, the CMB had such a situation.
[03:46:01] Now, the damage had already occurred there. So, any
[03:46:04] measure you take in the subsequent process
[03:46:08] will serve to reduce and eliminate
[03:46:10] such dubious transactions, or it will ensure that.
[03:46:14] But because you condoned this damage until then,
[03:46:18] and because we caused this damage
[03:46:21] to reach very high levels, that damage
[03:46:24] would have a cost. Now, unfortunately,
[03:46:28] with these events we have experienced in the last two days,
[03:46:31] the bill for this damage has slowly
[03:46:35] started to be passed on to the participants.
[03:46:38] So, out of 220 funds, the liquidation
[03:46:41] of 130 funds was decided.
[03:46:45] And the value of the remaining
[03:46:49] approximately 90 funds will be announced daily,
[03:46:52] once a month and on the 15th of the month.
[03:46:56] And it was stated that they would be subject
[03:46:59] to buying and selling based on their value. What does
[03:47:03] this mean? In 90 funds,
[03:47:05] if you want to sell, you will have to wait for the value
[03:47:09] of the 15th day, and you will sell based on the value.
[03:47:13] Now, these funds will lose value every day,
[03:47:16] and stock funds will lose value. So,
[03:47:20] the process is going like this. Other
[03:47:24] money market, etc., funds containing values
[03:47:27] also have a very high probability of losing
[03:47:30] value in the process. Now, when you try
[03:47:34] to sell on the 15th at that day's value,
[03:47:37] you will get less money than you would get today
[03:47:41] if you want to exit. And now,
[03:47:44] the liquidation of 130 funds has also been decided.
[03:47:48] Then I will say something, T+2 is also being removed for them,
[03:47:51] it is now valid.
[03:47:54] T+2 was removed, and now there is
[03:48:01] 1.1 trillion TL worth of things, meaning the equivalent
[03:48:04] of these 220 funds is
[03:48:07] a colossal amount like 1.1 trillion.
[03:48:10] There are approximately 1 million investors.
[03:48:14] Look, if you take it from the history of the Republic,
[03:48:18] even in the history of the Republic, and I
[03:48:21] have been in bureaucracy and affairs since the 80s,
[03:48:25] I follow these issues very closely.
[03:48:28] There have been very few transactions with such high
[03:48:32] damage, both in terms of quantity, and as an event
[03:48:36] that occurred openly and knowingly in front of the authorities,
[03:48:40] and in terms of its trust-eroding and destructive
[03:48:42] aspects, and the large number of victimized investors.
[03:48:46] This is a first in the history of the CMB. Now, we are talking
[03:48:49] about a size of 1.1 trillion and 1
[03:48:51] million people. The CMB will carry out
[03:48:55] the liquidation of these 130 companies that
[03:48:59] have been put into liquidation. Now, how quickly
[03:49:02] will the CMB do this? When it does, the value
[03:49:06] of these funds will erode and disappear every day.
[03:49:09] Therefore, who will cover
[03:49:12] the losses that are very, very likely to occur?
[03:49:16] That's why I made a post on X
[03:49:19] today, uh, there,
[03:49:23] uh, yes, there is a very big negligence, there is
[03:49:27] a very big dereliction of duty. This is very
[03:49:30] clear, but what needs to be done at this
[03:49:34] point is two things, urgently.
[03:49:37] First, according to Article 17 of Law
[03:49:41] No. 5549 on the Prevention of Money Laundering,
[03:49:44] these four bosses, who are currently under
[03:49:48] investigation, namely Destek, Hedef, Pusula,
[03:49:52] and Tera,
[03:49:56] the money obtained from these four bosses
[03:49:59] as a result of this measure should be used
[03:50:03] to compensate the investors' money in these
[03:50:06] funds, as much as possible,
[03:50:10] of course, it's not easy, it needs to be paid.
[03:50:13] Why? Because, look, as long as there
[03:50:16] is public negligence, as long as the public
[03:50:19] does not perform its duty of oversight and control,
[03:50:22] you cannot blame the citizen for the damages that occur.
[03:50:26] Now, there is a general perception that it was highly valued,
[03:50:30] and if he knew, he wouldn't have bought it,
[03:50:33] he should suffer the consequences. When you
[03:50:37] say this, all the duties and responsibilities of the state
[03:50:41] have been fulfilled. The state has done its duty, its oversight
[03:50:44] duty, the citizen has gone and invested their money
[03:50:47] in risky investment instruments. Yes, you would say they should
[03:50:51] suffer the consequences. But if the state, in an organized
[03:50:55] manner, in full view, despite the repeated warnings of
[03:50:58] all common-sense experts, without paying attention
[03:51:02] to their knowing it, if the minister and the former
[03:51:05] CMB chairman cause hundreds of thousands of citizens
[03:51:08] to be defrauded by these
[03:51:11] frauds, then the public also
[03:51:14] has a responsibility here. Of course, there will be a process
[03:51:18] related to the negligence of those officials, those
[03:51:21] who supported them, because it's impossible for them to carry
[03:51:24] out such an organized and large-scale
[03:51:28] fraud without support from the public,
[03:51:31] from politics, from bureaucracy. I have worked on all sides of the table
[03:51:35] for 45 years, I have held every
[03:51:38] position, it's impossible. Therefore, they will definitely
[03:51:41] fulfill their responsibilities in the next
[03:51:44] period, and the judiciary will hold them accountable.
[03:51:48] Therefore, because the public did not do its duty,
[03:51:51] did not fulfill its responsibilities, because it condoned
[03:51:54] these frauds, because it did not see them,
[03:51:58] in order to protect these investors as much as possible,
[03:52:02] I am not saying to dip into the treasury, but to prevent these people
[03:52:05] from transferring the money they stole
[03:52:08] elsewhere, "The assets of these people need
[03:52:12] to be seized. Why? Look, in Law
[03:52:15] No. 63-62 of the Capital Markets Law, Article 107
[03:52:19] market manipulation, what they call
[03:52:21] manipulation, is market manipulation in the law.
[03:52:25] In market manipulation, the penalties are very low.
[03:52:29] If you, as a branch manager or executive in a bank,
[03:52:32] take 100,000 TL from a depositor's account
[03:52:35] without permission with a fake signature, there is a prison sentence of
[03:52:39] up to 20 years, up to 20 years. In Article 107 of the Capital
[03:52:42] Markets Law, Article 160, which covers the transactions
[03:52:46] made today, in market manipulation, you defraud
[03:52:49] hundreds of thousands of investors. Look, you defraud hundreds
[03:52:53] of thousands of investors, you steal their money.
[03:52:57] The penalty you will receive is between 3 and 5 years,
[03:53:00] and according to the third paragraph, when you pay
[03:53:03] twice the determined damage to the treasury,
[03:53:06] look, to the treasury, not to the investors,
[03:53:12] So, in today's sharing,
[03:53:14] I mean, in order to protect
[03:53:18] the investors who suffered damages due to the non-performance
[03:53:22] of their duties, and to prevent
[03:53:24] the treasury from being affected, the assets
[03:53:28] to be obtained by taking this measure,
[03:53:31] and MASAK should also go after their assets abroad,
[03:53:35] should be distributed to these people
[03:53:38] who genuinely suffered
[03:53:40] damages. Okay,
[03:53:44] so there's a capital markets aspect to this,
[03:53:48] and the latest event today also
[03:53:51] carries the risk of spreading to financial
[03:53:54] markets, because these four groups
[03:53:57] have investment banks, and Pusula also
[03:54:01] has a participation bank. Therefore, it's not
[03:54:05] just a problem concerning capital markets,
[03:54:08] it also concerns
[03:54:10] the banking sector. Since these groups also
[03:54:14] have banks, including a participation bank, the BRSA
[03:54:18] and the authority responsible for financial markets,
[03:54:21] namely the BRSA, also need to intervene. Mr. Gökmen,
[03:54:25] a third thing needs to be done:
[03:54:27] the BRSA, CMB, and SDIF need to come
[03:54:31] together immediately and appoint a management
[03:54:35] to these banks and to Pusula Holding
[03:54:38] or other holdings. Because you are
[03:54:42] investigating these people with a very serious allegation,
[03:54:46] you are imposing travel bans, perhaps arrests will follow.
[03:54:49] It is said that there have been a few arrests
[03:54:52] regarding these detained bosses. But these people are still at work.
[03:54:56] So, how do you know that things like
[03:55:00] tampering with evidence, property concealment
[03:55:02] will not be done while they are at work?
[03:55:06] Therefore, both taking measures
[03:55:09] on their assets and appointing a public
[03:55:13] management to these relevant institutions
[03:55:16] seems to be the appropriate solution at this point.
[03:55:20] Yes, uh,
[03:55:23] let me give the floor to Figen Hanim. By the way, Murat Hodja,
[03:55:27] what are these figures? A total
[03:55:31] of 1.1 trillion worth of funds. Yes, there is
[03:55:34] a 17 billion dollar thing, meaning we are talking
[03:55:38] about a situation where 1 million people are directly
[03:55:42] involved, and many people were guided by banks
[03:55:45] to go to the bank. For example, like the situation
[03:55:48] of the viewer who wrote to us just now, he bought a money market
[03:55:52] fund which was assumed to be guaranteed and
[03:55:56] the lowest risk, but the money market fund
[03:55:59] did a reverse repo transaction using a stock as collateral,
[03:56:03] of that company. So, here again,
[03:56:06] the chairman of that company's board is now in custody,
[03:56:10] Destek Factoring. When you look at it, there is an incredible
[03:56:13] value, it has reached 100 times its book value.
[03:56:16] Where will the CMB intervene in this? The market value
[03:56:20] has reached 100 times
[03:56:28] the company's book value. It has become 2.5 times. Don't you say anywhere that this
[03:56:31] current value is half of what it was?
[03:56:34] were appointed to Tavut companies,
[03:56:38] which was not possible in that crime
[03:56:41] according to the law. Then, at that time.
[03:56:44] of Marquez, right? Everyone knows that the murder
[03:56:47] will be committed, the story enters like that. Everyone knew.
[03:56:50] When you entered all the forums, etc., these
[03:56:54] institutions, these funds, wherever they
[03:56:57] entered, people tried to catch it, bought it,
[03:57:00] and made it soar. A stock that came out
[03:57:04] at 50 liras a year, a year and a half ago,
[03:57:08] for example, this Destek Factoring I'm talking about,
[03:57:11] came out at 50 liras and went up to 4,000 liras.
[03:57:15] Now, this happened when it was around 2,000 liras.
[03:57:19] Where were you going to intervene in this? Don't you know
[03:57:22] that the values here don't hold, that a very
[03:57:25] big bubble emerged here? All of it?
[03:57:29] Moreover, if this paper, this stock, is subject
[03:57:32] to transactions that should not happen, where were
[03:57:35] you going to intervene? There is a very big negligence
[03:57:39] here. And in the upcoming
[03:57:42] borsaya, bu borsaya kim girer böyle bir
[03:57:44] ortamda? Bigen hanım
[03:57:47] eee, Ramazan Bey şuna dikkat
[03:57:51] çekti, evet, bu tür yatırımlarda bulunmak
[03:57:54] risklidir, dolayısıyla hani bu riskin doğal
[03:57:57] sonuçlarından biri de kaybetmektir,
[03:58:00] ama ilgili kurumlar görevlerini tam olarak
[03:58:03] yerine getirmek kaydıyla bu
[03:58:06] risk eee bu şekilde değerlendirilebilir, siz
[03:58:09] ne dersiniz, siz de çünkü buna benzer şeyler söylemiştiniz o iki
[03:58:13] dilim önce konuşmamızda evet
[03:58:17] Mr. Ramazan's explanations are valuable,
[03:58:19] of course. Now, we desperately need
[03:58:23] institutions here. I repeat this.
[03:58:26] They can make structural measures so that
[03:58:30] this doesn't happen again. But will we see
[03:58:34] determination in applying them? Because
[03:58:37] it's almost 10 months since the minister
[03:58:40] made the tespit. Now, this
[03:58:43] CMB is affiliated with the Ministry of Finance,
[03:58:47] with the Ministry of Treasury and Finance, of course, it's an institution that makes its own decisions,
[03:58:50] I don't mean that, but after the minister in charge
[03:58:54] detected this, it's inevitable for the experts there to know and
[03:58:57] see this fact. They sit there as experts,
[03:59:01] and as I just mentioned the law, especially
[03:59:05] the duties of the supervision
[03:59:09] bu tür işlemler, bu tür yoğunlaşmalar,
[03:59:12] and inspection department are very clear.
[03:59:16] They can most easily see such transactions,
[03:59:19] such concentrations, such movements towards fraud,
[03:59:22] market fraud. Uh, Mr. Ramazan said
[03:59:26] "negligence" in a more appropriate tone.
[03:59:29] This requires a more careful
[03:59:32] investigation. When we say independent institutions,
[03:59:35] indeed, the public has suffered a lot here. There are
[03:59:38] those who profited to the same extent as
[03:59:42] the public's suffering. Who are these profiteers?
[03:59:46] Who are their partners? It's not just
[03:59:49] these 4 people or those companies. Now, we woke up one morning
[03:59:53] I've said it over and over again. Now, here, these measures
[03:59:56] absolutely and certainly need to be implemented. They need
[04:00:00] to be handed over to independent managers and strictly supervised.
[04:00:03] This has a legal basis.
[04:00:07] And prosecutors in Turkey really have
[04:00:10] a lot of serious work to do. But now,
[04:00:13] if you look, even though the minister
[04:00:16] knew about this from the beginning during the 10-month
[04:00:19] period, he couldn't stop this progression, and this
[04:00:23] severe destruction couldn't be prevented.
[04:00:26] Who tied his hands? I mean, how does
[04:00:29] this will originate? Where do they get
[04:00:32] this courage? One of these