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20261012 010000 UTC
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[00:00:00] you are turning it into the narrative of an action movie,
[00:00:03] whereas there is a great opportunity here for
[00:00:07] all opposition parties in such a way that
[00:00:10] a narrative can be established that in Turkey, the accountability
[00:00:14] of state institutions, the institutional responsibility
[00:00:18] capacity, the anger created in public opinion,
[00:00:21] the anger created in public opinion,
[00:00:24] this terrible relationship
[00:00:27] that they established with money,
[00:00:30] how it can turn into a voting
[00:00:34] capacity, this is a huge opportunity for
[00:00:37] opposition parties, but if you evaluate this
[00:00:40] through individuals, then you give the government
[00:00:43] an opportunity to establish such a big narrative.
[00:00:47] It can become such a situation that in political
[00:00:50] communication, the most important thing is this: if there is a fraud,
[00:00:54] if there is a robbery,
[00:00:57] next week? When we see if there is a negative perception.
[00:01:00] Then as the opposition, who in power
[00:01:03] claims this and how? In other words,
[00:01:06] through whom is the reflection of this fraud
[00:01:09] in public opinion? If you reduce this
[00:01:12] to individuals who can even appear as victims
[00:01:16] of the fund, then this narrative
[00:01:19] will create a ground where the anger it creates
[00:01:22] in the voters cannot turn into voting
[00:01:26] capacity and mobilization.
[00:01:29] The whole point is to open up for discussion
[00:01:32] the ground that the current government has created against
[00:01:36] the citizen, not only economically, but
[00:01:39] also socially, in terms of justice,
[00:01:42] and economically. This is actually
[00:01:46] the duty of the opposition. If you reduce this
[00:01:49] to Fatma Betül Sayankaya, if you reduce this to an X fund manager,
[00:01:53] if you reduce this to a Y minister, then
[00:01:56] you will miss a huge communication opportunity. Then.
[00:02:00] The government side can come out and say,
[00:02:03] "Look, Tayyip Erdoğan, the head of our government,
[00:02:06] identified these names, took
[00:02:09] responsibility for the fund fraud, and
[00:02:12] chopped off their heads, and strengthened
[00:02:16] his leadership capacity, not only to his
[00:02:19] own voters, but also to the floating
[00:02:23] voters, the undecided voters, and the voters
[00:02:26] who model their voting behavior with the perception
[00:02:29] of power,
[00:02:32] However, he is you create an opportunity for them, and if this narrative continues,
[00:02:35] Tayyip Erdoğan can become such a figure
[00:02:39] that a terrible fraud has been committed,
[00:02:42] yes, some institutions in the state have made
[00:02:45] some negligences, but Tayyip Erdoğan saw these
[00:02:48] negligences and immediately fired everyone,
[00:02:51] punished them, and presented a leader
[00:02:55] as a symbol of power to the public,
[00:02:59] thus in Turkey, in voting behavior
[00:03:01] where leadership capacity is very
[00:03:05] dominant, you miss a huge opportunity.
[00:03:08] Therefore, I think this framing
[00:03:12] is done from a very wrong place. It is necessary
[00:03:16] to explain to the citizens with very clear and simple
[00:03:20] sentences how big a systematic crisis
[00:03:23] and a systematic continuity-
[00:03:26] requiring crisis this is in terms of
[00:03:30] accountability and auditability for state institutions.
[00:03:33] Because unfortunately, and since
[00:03:37] factors determining voter behavior is leadership
[00:03:41] capacity, and leadership capacity is shaped
[00:03:44] by the perception of power. If this
[00:03:48] narrative continues like this, then a leader
[00:03:51] will emerge, render the names in this
[00:03:55] narrative dysfunctional, punish them, show
[00:03:58] a few people as responsible, and this
[00:04:02] can be interpreted as a great opportunity being
[00:04:05] after this, big risk here. I will
[00:04:08] also ask a question to Professor Yalçın. I will come to you,
[00:04:11] hocam. Of course, we have this, Mrs. Ceren
[00:04:15] said something very correct, there is a system issue here,
[00:04:18] what we need to change is this. Also, there is an expectation
[00:04:22] from the public, I will ask Professor Yalçın about that.
[00:04:26] If there is a crime, we need to see the perpetrator. We are
[00:04:30] asking for the list of 214 people because there cannot be a trial
[00:04:33] or an investigation by hiding the criminals. So, we know
[00:04:37] it won't be announced, that's why we ask both Professor
[00:04:41] Yalçın and Cumhur, you were probably going to ask that too,
[00:04:44] when they don't announce it, does the opposition consider
[00:04:47] announcing the information they have to the public again
[00:04:51] in such a compiled way? Because this needs to turn into
[00:04:54] a case. What kind of path will they follow to force this?
[00:04:58] Let's ask both Professor Yalçın
[00:05:02] and Cumhur. Before asking, Özgür Özel,
[00:05:05] had you completed the new party general? Let my friends bring
[00:05:09] visual number 3 for this. Let's ask these questions
[00:05:20] asked by Bahadır Özgür to both Mr. Uzun and Mr. Karatepe.
[00:05:23] Because the demand in this direction continues to come from all
[00:05:27] segments of society. Now, it says that the government's chemistry
[00:05:30] has been disrupted regarding the fund crisis. Now, Ömer Çelik's
[00:05:33] statements, dear viewers, we will discuss
[00:05:37] today whether the AK Party will follow a different
[00:05:41] path politically in the coming days,
[00:05:44] whether a period of struggle is starting.
[00:05:47] He had statements that brought this to the agenda. Now, you
[00:05:50] must have watched Ömer Çelik. You saw the panic, the body
[00:05:54] language, the tension, the haste of the criminals.
[00:05:57] They said, "From now on, we are in the highest
[00:06:00] struggle and alarm position legally and politically."
[00:06:04] Now, what does this mean? We will ask that. After
[00:06:07] he said that, four journalists were banned from their freedom.
[00:06:11] Our friend Mustafa from Sözcü newspaper posted a concert
[00:06:15] photo of Ömer Çelik from his vacation with Nacar in Bodrum.
[00:06:18] The event is real, the news is real, the photo is real,
[00:06:20] but those who expose this are put in jail, not those
[00:06:24] who swindled the nation. They opened an account,
[00:06:28] and Mrs. Fatma deposited the principal with interest,
[00:06:31] and the rest she graciously donated. Is there such a thing
[00:06:35] as a "door of repentance" in a democracy, in a state
[00:06:39] of law? Now, I will ask Mr. Uzun, as a lawyer,
[00:06:42] this. Is there such a thing as a "fund of repentance",
[00:06:46] a "door of repentance"? Let me read Özgür Özel's own
[00:06:50] sentence again. He says: "Is there such a thing as
[00:06:53] a door of repentance in a democracy, in a state of law?"
[00:06:56] They say, "We opened an account, let those who succumbed to their
[00:07:00] desires put the money here, we will not go after them."
[00:07:04] Mr. Uzun, as a lawyer, I ask you this question,
[00:07:06] how do you interpret it? Özgür Özel asks if there
[00:07:10] is such a thing as a door of repentance. What is your
[00:07:13] answer to this question?
[00:07:14] Bahadır Özgür asked,
[00:07:17] "Now, if the government does not disclose it,
[00:07:20] what will the opposition do to force it, what
[00:07:24] steps will it take?" Yes, of course, the main
[00:07:28] reason for the work done so far is this. If we
[00:07:31] had not disclosed it, it would not have been possible
[00:07:35] for the public to know about Fatma Betül Sayankaya's name
[00:07:39] and the process leading to her extradition as of today. We will
[00:07:43] of course create a situation where the government will
[00:07:45] be obliged to confirm the accuracy of the shared
[00:07:48] information by sharing every piece of information
[00:07:51] we have with the public on behalf of our citizens,
[00:07:54] to whom we are obligated to serve. We are also
[00:07:58] receiving information. We are making confirmations
[00:08:02] within the framework of this information flow. In order
[00:08:06] to prevent any grievances, we are gradually disclosing
[00:08:09] this information after the checks are completed.
[00:08:12] However, we are also reminding those who have
[00:08:15] this information what they need to do. We are
[00:08:19] saying, "If there is a crime, and if you, as a public
[00:08:22] official, have become aware that this crime has been
[00:08:26] committed, you are obliged to report it
[00:08:29] to those who are responsible for investigating the crime.
[00:08:32] Otherwise, you will also be committing
[00:08:35] a crime." What crime? The crime of not reporting
[00:08:39] an action that you know is a crime to the relevant
[00:08:43] units is clearly written in the Turkish Penal Code.
[00:08:46] When it comes to politics, we must
[00:08:49] ensure that not even 1 lira
[00:08:52] of public money is stolen.
[00:08:55] One of the most effective duties of
[00:08:58] the opposition is to expose everything
[00:09:02] that the government does with the power it has, for its
[00:09:06] own interests but against the citizen,
[00:09:09] and even to prevent actions that could
[00:09:12] harm the citizen by reporting these
[00:09:16] methods of struggle to the prosecutors.
[00:09:19] This is expected from the opposition. As of
[00:09:23] today, what is expected from the opposition
[00:09:26] is that whoever was involved in this
[00:09:29] fund, without any exception,
[00:09:33] without protection, should be revealed. The public is waiting
[00:09:36] for anyone who has an eye on the
[00:09:40] citizen's money,
[00:09:43] whether they are politicians or relatives, to be revealed
[00:09:47] one by one. They want to ask
[00:09:51] for accountability, "Why did they rob me?"
[00:09:54] Of course, they will ask this politically and legally. Let's
[00:09:58] come to the issue of repentance. In law,
[00:10:01] there has never been a concept of being
[00:10:05] absolved from crime by repenting, and it is
[00:10:08] not possible for it to happen in the future,
[00:10:12] if we are still a state of law. However,
[00:10:15] since we are governed by a management approach
[00:10:18] that does not see itself as an element of the state
[00:10:21] of law, let's see what else we will see.
[00:10:25] While those with political responsibility are distancing
[00:10:28] themselves from their political responsibilities by saying,
[00:10:32] "May God forgive us," there are efforts in Turkey
[00:10:35] to make those who robbed the nation irresponsible
[00:10:38] or to protect them by making regulations in this
[00:10:41] regard. Such a thing cannot happen. As a lawyer,
[00:10:45] I would also like to ask this in the Turkish Penal
[00:10:49] Code, I mean, I would like to add this to my
[00:10:51] questions. For example, does voluntary return, does
[00:10:55] this decision or this call have a legal basis?
[00:10:58] There are some provisions in the Turkish Penal Code
[00:11:01] regulating voluntary return. For example, in fraud
[00:11:05] crimes, for example, in embezzlement crimes, if
[00:11:08] you return the benefit you obtained before the
[00:11:11] investigation authorities take action, note that
[00:11:15] it is not a reason to eliminate the crime,
[00:11:18] but it allows it to be considered as a reason
[00:11:22] for reduction. There is no regulation
[00:11:25] in the Turkish Penal Code that completely eliminates
[00:11:28] a crime after it has been committed by returning
[00:11:32] the money or the stolen goods. They might try
[00:11:36] to introduce such a thing by making a new
[00:11:38] regulation, but such a regulation would have no place
[00:11:42] in a state of law and in the fundamental
[00:11:46] principles of criminal law, and it would
[00:11:49] also be unconstitutional. For example,
[00:11:53] just as you would not
[00:11:55] accept someone being absolved from a crime
[00:11:59] simply by returning a television they stole,
[00:12:02] because here it is not the television,
[00:12:05] or the television is not the basis
[00:12:08] of punishment in the theft of a television, the punishment is the
[00:12:12] sanction for the disruption of public order
[00:12:15] caused by the theft of the television,
[00:12:19] otherwise, you do not undo everything
[00:12:22] as soon as you return it. Of course,
[00:12:25] there are cases where the return has been
[00:12:29] made a reason for reduction, but it does not eliminate
[00:12:32] the crime. For this reason, what is intended
[00:12:36] to be done now, during the law that
[00:12:39] will be discussed in parliament next week,
[00:12:42] is to completely eliminate the crime through
[00:12:45] the voluntary return of money, and even
[00:12:49] to try to bring in regulations that
[00:12:52] are contrary to law and would not be
[00:12:55] compatible with a state of law, such as
[00:12:59] not conducting any investigation against
[00:13:01] them. One reason for not disclosing
[00:13:05] these names is that there is a feeling
[00:13:08] that they will feel secure and commit
[00:13:11] these acts after this legal regulation
[00:13:14] is made. I hope I am wrong about
[00:13:17] this, but I have a strong feeling that
[00:13:21] after the law is passed next week,
[00:13:23] or after the law is enacted,
[00:13:27] people will bring back some of these
[00:13:31] ill-gotten gains, and since the public
[00:13:35] has no information about how much this
[00:13:38] is, they will put themselves in the status
[00:13:40] of those who repent with a certain amount
[00:13:43] of money they bring, and then they will
[00:13:47] try to be acquitted by not taking any action against
[00:13:50] them without disclosing their names. However,
[00:13:54] each of these people is so close to
[00:13:58] the government that they can get information
[00:14:01] from inside, even the President's chief
[00:14:04] of staff is among them. We are talking
[00:14:07] about a fraud that involves all those
[00:14:10] who have access to information. Look,
[00:14:13] in any other democratic country, a country
[00:14:16] that does not have a weakened system
[00:14:20] of governance like ours, if this happened,
[00:14:23] there would be no government left,
[00:14:26] no one to do their job. All
[00:14:29] of them would be taken into custody
[00:14:33] as part of an effective investigation,
[00:14:36] and politically, the government would
[00:14:40] not be able to recover from this,
[00:14:43] they would have to resign. We are
[00:14:47] actually seeing the consequences of the
[00:14:50] damage we inflicted on our country
[00:14:53] by making a constitutional amendment after the
[00:14:56] 2017 constitutional amendment, which strengthened
[00:14:59] the executive's authority over the judiciary
[00:15:03] and legislature, and abolished the
[00:15:06] separation of powers, despite our explanations
[00:15:10] at the time that such damages could
[00:15:13] arise. If there were a completely
[00:15:16] independent judiciary, these people would
[00:15:20] already have been summoned as part
[00:15:23] of an investigation, and all their names
[00:15:26] and identities would have been very
[00:15:29] clearly revealed to the public,
[00:15:33] and politically, depending on their
[00:15:37] connections, the government would have
[00:15:40] become a government that wronged its
[00:15:42] people because it was aware of this
[00:15:46] recklessness, this behavior that allowed
[00:15:50] the people to be robbed, or,
[00:15:54] assuming it was done without its
[00:15:57] knowledge, which I say with good
[00:16:01] intentions, it would have become clear
[00:16:04] that it could not govern the country,
[00:16:07] that it was unaware of what was happening
[00:16:11] in the country, and that it had
[00:16:14] not taken protective measures despite
[00:16:16] creating a ground for these things
[00:16:20] to happen in the country. This would
[00:16:23] also mean that it had to resign
[00:16:26] due to being a short-sighted government.
[00:16:30] But we will continue this struggle to
[00:16:34] the end. As for Mr. Özgür's question,
[00:16:38] we will share all the information we
[00:16:42] receive with the public, thus giving the
[00:16:46] government the opportunity to expose this
[00:16:49] robbery and those who turned a blind
[00:16:53] eye to those who participated in this
[00:16:56] robbery, with all their accomplices.
[00:16:59] If they do not use this opportunity,
[00:17:03] we will continue to share them
[00:17:06] with the public as partners in
[00:17:10] this matter. This
[00:17:12] was important, Mr. Uzun gave the headline.
[00:17:16] I'm going to take a break now. A little
[00:17:20] later, Bahadır Özgür had a question. Let
[00:17:23] start, and we will
[00:17:27] continue after the break. Would Bahadır Özgür
[00:17:30] briefly remind us of his question again?
[00:17:34] His question was similar to what
[00:17:37] I asked Mr. Cumhur, but we already said
[00:17:41] that the professor is also saying that
[00:17:45] if there is a crime here, we need to
[00:17:48] see the perpetrator. There can be no
[00:17:51] trial without a perpetrator. What kind of strategy will the new
[00:17:55] party follow in this regard
[00:17:58] to force this? We already asked
[00:18:00] Mr. Cumhur about that. Maybe Professor
[00:18:04] Yalçın said that new names will
[00:18:11] be announced. Mr. Karatepe, we have 1.5 minutes,
[00:18:14] we will continue after the break,
[00:18:17] please. Yes, I would like
[00:18:21] to speak first after the break,
[00:18:24] because I have a lot to say.
[00:18:28] Briefly, I would like to make
[00:18:31] an evaluation by referring to an
[00:18:34] expression used by Ms. Ceren a
[00:18:38] little while ago. Ms. Ceren is
[00:18:41] a very competent political communicator
[00:19:27] whom I also watch on screens. However,
[00:19:31] I do not think it is correct to
[00:19:35] define this process as a crisis.
[00:19:39] Because what we call a crisis
[00:19:42] is usually something that arises from
[00:19:46] factors that we cannot control.
[00:19:49] For example, a war has broken
[00:19:53] out between Russia and Ukraine,
[00:19:56] there is something in wheat trade,
[00:19:59] etc. Here, there is a fraud
[00:20:03] and a robbery, let's call it what it is.
[00:20:07] There is a process that has been
[00:20:11] created knowingly, willingly, by controlling
[00:20:15] and intervening in every stage.
[00:20:18] Therefore, although I am
[00:20:22] not a communicator, "crisis" sounded
[00:20:25] a bit mild to me. This should
[00:20:28] not be defined with milder words
[00:20:31] like "negligence" or "fault,"
[00:20:34] because there is not negligence
[00:20:37] here, but a fabricated mechanism.
[00:20:41] The purpose of this mechanism
[00:20:45] is to transfer the source of
[00:20:48] the majority of those 400,
[00:20:52] 455 thousand people to a
[00:20:55] limited segment. I will say
[00:20:59] this and then go into more
[00:21:02] detail on the other topic in
[00:21:05] the second half. Well, it was
[00:21:09] just time for a break, we
[00:21:12] will return with very critical questions,
[00:21:15] there are also questions from you,
[00:21:18] we will ask them too, first
[00:21:22] a short break. Yes, we are
[00:21:26] together again after a break,
[00:21:29] the floor is yours, it continues,
[00:21:32] we are starting our second hour,
[00:21:36] another valuable journalist is joining
[00:21:40] our very valuable guests, BirGün
[00:21:43] newspaper's news coordinator Yaşar Aydın
[00:21:46] is also with us in this
[00:21:50] section, welcome. Now, before
[00:21:53] we went to the break,
[00:21:56] Professor Doctor Yalçın Karatepe
[00:21:59] was speaking, and I interrupted
[00:22:02] him, and on the other hand,
[00:22:06] today Murat Emir,
[00:22:08] who is also a lawyer and
[00:22:12] a deputy,
[00:22:14] had asked some questions. For example,
[00:22:18] is there a procedure in criminal
[00:22:22] law where organized fraud
[00:22:25] can be closed with a "pay
[00:22:29] the money and get away" bargain?
[00:22:33] Who has paid back how much
[00:22:36] so far, and why is it
[00:22:40] not being announced? Were account
[00:22:42] freezes and immovable property
[00:22:46] measures applied against these
[00:22:50] individuals within the scope of
[00:22:54] CMK 1228? Were trustees
[00:22:58] appointed to 73 companies? Many
[00:23:01] such questions were asked legally,
[00:23:05] of course, we will ask these
[00:23:09] to Mr. Uzun. Mr. Karatepe,
[00:23:13] please complete your speech.
[00:23:16] Now, Ms. Bilge, before the
[00:23:20] break, you were talking
[00:23:23] about this voluntary money return
[00:23:26] issue. Since I first heard
[00:23:30] about this, that is, since
[00:23:33] the Capital Markets Board announced
[00:23:37] its decision on this matter,
[00:23:40] I have been thinking a lot
[00:23:43] about what they intend here, what they are
[00:23:47] trying to achieve, and I have
[00:23:51] reached the following conclusion. Let's
[00:23:54] remember this stock,
[00:23:56] that is, Ms. Fatma Sayan
[00:24:00] Kaya was involved in this
[00:24:03] 2.2 billion additional gain
[00:24:07] from the stock price increase.
[00:24:11] The list of those who manipulated
[00:24:13] that stock, that is, those
[00:24:16] who distorted the price and
[00:24:20] took it to different places
[00:24:23] than it should have been,
[00:24:26] was published by the Capital Markets
[00:24:30] Board, and the names of each of them
[00:24:33] were published, the money amounts
[00:24:37] were written, and it was
[00:24:40] said that in order to
[00:24:43] benefit from effective remorse,
[00:24:47] they had to pay twice
[00:24:50] the amounts here,
[00:24:54] etc., referring to
[00:24:58] the relevant law. Look, since
[00:25:01] Ms. Fatma Betül's name was announced,
[00:25:05] it was not added to that list, right? when addressing type situations,
[00:25:09] conceptually, what we use,
[00:25:12] in political science and political communication, I used
[00:25:16] the word crisis because we approach it like a crisis, otherwise, of course.
[00:25:20] undoubtedly, this is a very big emphasis. Well, now let me
[00:25:24] ask Mr. Cumhur this very briefly. Our viewers
[00:25:27] are also sending many messages, for example,
[00:25:30] there are those who remind of CMB Law Article 107/3.
[00:25:33] For effective remorse, as my teacher Yalçın also
[00:25:37] stated earlier, at least two times the profit must be paid directly
[00:25:41] to the treasury. Moreover, this
[00:25:44] is a separate discussion whether it nullifies the penalty or not. That is, it only
[00:25:48] halves it, as far as we know.
[00:25:50] So, my friends are asking this in the title, let me ask Mr. Uzun.
[00:25:54] After that, I will take the evaluations
[00:25:58] Does voluntary return, for example, cover up the crime, Mr. Uzun,
[00:26:01] as a lawyer?
[00:26:04] It never covers it. And because it is known
[00:26:07] that it will not cover it, the government is making
[00:26:11] some effort. In democracies,
[00:26:14] actually, it is very natural, even obligatory,
[00:26:18] for the government to come and inform the parliament
[00:26:21] and present information about what will be done
[00:26:24] or what is happening under that information.
[00:26:28] It is one of the obligatory things,
[00:26:31] but we have never seen
[00:26:34] this government being generous in informing
[00:26:38] the parliament before.
[00:26:41] We had never, never, never seen it.
[00:26:44] Very rarely, in some very special
[00:26:47] cases, some of them even arranged
[00:26:50] as closed meetings, we had seen the parliament being informed,
[00:26:53] especially when
[00:26:57] national security was at stake. But pay attention.
[00:27:00] Last week, President
[00:27:04] Vice President Mr. Cevdet
[00:27:08] Yılmaz came to the parliament and made a presentation
[00:27:12] about the fund crisis. You remember, because this
[00:27:16] was not a very ordinary way of behaving,
[00:27:19] we paid a little more attention.
[00:27:22] Although it was presented as a meeting
[00:27:25] for the purpose of informing the parliament and the opposition,
[00:27:29] we will see in its content and between the lines
[00:27:32] that there is a need
[00:27:36] for a new legal regulation related to this,
[00:27:39] and that this regulation,
[00:27:42] the regulation that is intended to be made,
[00:27:46] will be a legal regulation
[00:27:50] that will also include the acquittal of those who are currently involved
[00:27:54] in this matter, as my teacher Yalçın also
[00:27:57] said, in the proposal that will come and be discussed
[00:28:01] next week, and between the lines.
[00:28:04] The government, by coming, was aware
[00:28:08] that if this matter was handled within the existing
[00:28:11] rules, the people
[00:28:15] very close to it could not be protected,
[00:28:18] so this time it ordered a law
[00:28:21] from the parliament based on this information,
[00:28:25] almost. It said that if these funds
[00:28:28] are liquidated by ordinary methods,
[00:28:31] it is possible, but an extraordinary situation is being experienced,
[00:28:35] and there is a need for a regulation
[00:28:38] regarding this extraordinary situation. And it came to the parliament
[00:28:41] almost to order that need.
[00:28:44] It meant to say, "I presented
[00:28:48] the information about this to the parliament. There is an action
[00:28:51] to be taken by the parliament based on this information. We are bringing that too.
[00:28:55] We did that by informing
[00:28:58] the parliament about its support. You, as the opposition,
[00:29:02] and the opposition parties, wanted
[00:29:06] to solve this in this extraordinary situation without
[00:29:09] scratching it too much, and resolve it with a new law.
[00:29:12] In no way, even if the entire
[00:29:16] amount of money were returned, even if two times the amount were returned,
[00:29:20] it would not completely eliminate the existing
[00:29:23] crime. This
[00:29:25] is that clear. Therefore, there is
[00:29:28] a necessity to conduct an investigation
[00:29:32] regarding the existing crime, and its criminal sanction
[00:29:36] must also be applied. Now, when this sanction
[00:29:39] is applied, due to the fact that
[00:29:43] the amounts in question have reached such large figures,
[00:29:46] the impossibility of returning two times
[00:29:50] the amount has been seen, if it were possible to earn 1 million
[00:29:53] and pay 2 million to qualify for a reduction due to the crime,
[00:29:57] then the matter would not come to the parliament or a new
[00:30:01] law at all. "Since very large sums of money were earned,
[00:30:04] and because the government felt obliged to protect
[00:30:07] those who earned that money, it came and informed
[00:30:10] the parliament, and then ordered a law.
[00:30:14] Next week, within the law, they probably want to
[00:30:18] arrange a provision stating that if those who earned
[00:30:22] the profit voluntarily return
[00:30:25] it, no investigation will be conducted
[00:30:28] against them. But
[00:30:30] neither does the Penal Code allow
[00:30:34] this, nor does a state
[00:30:38] of law allow this, nor does our constitution permit
[00:30:42] it. As I said earlier, once a crime is committed,
[00:30:45] you cannot reverse that crime, there is a crime. Yes.
[00:30:49] Even if two times the amount of money is paid for this crime,
[00:30:53] and I don't think they can pay two times the amount, because these are enormous
[00:30:57] figures, even if two times is paid,
[00:31:01] there is no possibility of completely eliminating
[00:31:04] it. When the law related to this comes next week,
[00:31:08] we will be able to talk
[00:31:11] about what is truly intended here very easily
[00:31:15] by looking at the matter.
[00:31:18] We estimate that this is what is intended at this stage,
[00:31:22] but you will see that we will not
[00:31:25] be mistaken in this estimate,
[00:31:28] because before any bill, the government
[00:31:32] was very stingy about informing the parliament.
[00:31:35] The fact that the Vice President himself
[00:31:38] came and did this
[00:31:42] already indicates the sensitivity of the issue
[00:31:45] and that something that should not happen
[00:31:49] in a state of law will be requested, in my opinion.
[00:31:51] With this attention, I will also focus on this
[00:31:55] during the parliamentary work next week,
[00:31:58] and we will continue to openly
[00:32:01] share what is intended with the public through
[00:32:05] you. Now,
[00:32:09] what does the government intend
[00:32:12] that proposal, as far as we understand...
[00:32:15] both us, and lawyers, and politicians, and the opposition,
[00:32:19] especially the new party, will see this. As Mr. Uzun stated.
[00:32:23] Now, at this point, will the AKP
[00:32:26] follow a new strategy? As of the point
[00:32:29] we have reached. Now, one of the names
[00:32:33] that have been talked about again in recent days,
[00:32:35] Ömer Çelik, is asking this question.
[00:32:39] Last August, a photo came to the agenda
[00:32:43] showing him with Osman Arıkan Nacar.
[00:32:46] And because of that photo, Sözcü reporter
[00:32:50] Mustafa Balcı and Şaban Sevinç,
[00:32:53] who shared it on social media, were arrested,
[00:32:57] you will remember. Therefore, while it was wondered
[00:33:01] what Ömer Çelik would say about this,
[00:33:04] Ömer Çelik made a statement
[00:33:07] saying, "We are moving to the highest level of struggle."
[00:33:10] What does the highest level of struggle
[00:33:14] mean legally
[00:33:17] and politically against these? Now, I will also take comments
[00:33:20] on this, but let me ask our director to play the statement for us first, let it come
[00:33:24] to the screens.
[00:33:26] We will especially fight to the end against the theft network
[00:33:30] organized and established through municipalities
[00:33:34] in the new party. Against this attack
[00:33:37] on our President, our party, and our cabinet,
[00:33:41] we are moving to the highest level of struggle.
[00:33:44] Okay. So, what would Yaşar Aydın say from the AKP's perspective,
[00:33:47] and how would he interpret this statement? Will the best
[00:33:50] defense be offense strategy come into play here? What
[00:33:53] do you say? Well, actually, the fund started as a scandal, as plunder,
[00:33:57] but now it has turned into a regime crisis.
[00:34:00] That is, it turned directly into an internal
[00:34:03] AKP matter, and it has turned into a serious problem not only
[00:34:07] between the AKP and the opposition, or the AKP and the public,
[00:34:10] but also within the AKP itself, and they are trying to solve
[00:34:14] The coming law is trying to cover one side
[00:34:18] of the AKP or the People's Alliance or the regime,
[00:34:21] while the other side does not allow it to be fully closed, wanting it to continue
[00:34:25] as a controlled tension. It is not possible to understand
[00:34:28] what is intended from the AKP and from within the government,
[00:34:31] but now in a place where there are so many
[00:34:35] threats, the government undoubtedly needs to play hardball.
[00:34:39] That is, if it were only a matter of the new party, if it were only a few
[00:34:42] journalists, and if it were only a few people, names,
[00:34:45] they would not exaggerate this matter so much. But
[00:34:49] the point they reached, the point the matter reached,
[00:34:52] how many names did they say, 124, there are 141 individuals,
[00:34:56] yes, 141 names. A significant portion
[00:34:59] of these are said to be AKP members. When considering their relatives
[00:35:03] and so on, they perceive this as
[00:35:06] a threat to the sections outside the first circle
[00:35:10] of the family close to Erdoğan in the palace, that is, if we were to count 10 names, 5 names
[00:35:14] are currently being talked about. But this
[00:35:17] is not just a threat from a new party or a journalist,
[00:35:20] they also see it as a threat from the struggle that started
[00:35:24] after Erdoğan in the palace. I do not see both Ömer Çelik's
[00:35:27] statements and Erdoğan's
[00:35:30] "we will respond to the attack
[00:35:33] against our cadres" as merely a statement
[00:35:37] directed at the opposition. I think he also sees an internal threat
[00:35:41] there and will set a barrier against
[00:35:44] it. But they will not do this right in front of our eyes.
[00:35:47] What will happen in front of our eyes is that
[00:35:51] they will take a tough stance against journalists and the new party
[00:35:53] or other opposition parties. Now, this matter has a handicap
[00:35:57] for the government: even if you intervene
[00:35:59] at a high level, it will be talked about,
[00:36:03] that is, your intervention will keep it being talked about.
[00:36:06] Every move you make regarding this issue ensures that
[00:36:10] you continue to talk about that event. That's why they are in a dilemma.
[00:36:13] That is, if they arrest a journalist, if they respond to the new party,
[00:36:17] or if they respond to the Good Party
[00:36:20] or another opposition, or try to deny it,
[00:36:23] there will always be a fund issue on the agenda. That's a dilemma for them,
[00:36:27] but I think the biggest dilemma
[00:36:30] they are still chasing is, who is giving this
[00:36:34] information, why are they giving it? Ultimately, they know
[00:36:36] who is doing it. It is stated that these names
[00:36:40] are on Erdoğan's desk. It's impossible for them not to know,
[00:36:43] because as we see, very close names are involved
[00:36:47] in this. It is very clear that there is a story
[00:36:50] where they recommended, "you should join, we made a lot of money." What worries them
[00:36:54] now is where is this leaking from, who is doing it, and why
[00:36:58] is it being done? They will try to get ahead of this issue too.
[00:37:01] We will talk about this in the coming weeks.
[00:37:04] Talking is good anyway. Actually, what we are experiencing
[00:37:08] is the regime itself. We saw this from it.
[00:37:12] That is, those who made the Rabia sign, those who talked about poverty,
[00:37:15] actually, the clear demonstration of how they became rich,
[00:37:19] the regime being exposed in all its nakedness,
[00:37:22] I think is a very useful thing.
[00:37:26] It is also a very useful thing for the AKP voter. If you go out and talk today,
[00:37:30] it has become a serious problem. Moreover, this does not
[00:37:33] only affect 400 thousand people in the fund, but
[00:37:36] a much wider segment of people from the stock market
[00:37:39] due to the situation of companies falling, and it's not a problem
[00:37:43] that can be closed, naturally. Perhaps threatening
[00:37:46] sentences will prevent it, the leaders
[00:37:48] of the AKP, Erdoğan, and those close
[00:37:52] to Erdoğan think. That's why they will play hardball,
[00:37:55] but I don't think this
[00:37:58] can be resolved after this point,
[00:38:02] that people will say, "Okay, let's give up on this."
[00:38:05] They will threaten, but the issue is no longer
[00:38:09] something that can be overcome by protecting a few names.
[00:38:12] I mean, I really have crazy questions in my head:
[00:38:16] why was this done, what happened, how much is the AKP involved
[00:38:19] in this? Even
[00:38:22] Bahçeli wrote in Evrensel that
[00:38:26] is this legislative matter even related to the fund,
[00:38:29] that is, is the weakening of the AKP,
[00:38:33] the strengthening of the MHP or another political
[00:38:35] force in the People's Alliance a part of this fund scandal,
[00:38:39] leakage and so on? There are too many questions,
[00:38:43] and the coming period will be days when we seek and discuss the answers to these questions.
[00:38:46] That is, it's not just a money matter, but the direction politics will take
[00:38:50] and how the regime will continue
[00:38:53] will also be used as a scandalous tool. That is, the names of that scandal
[00:38:57] and so on. Now, the matter will be discussed
[00:39:01] a bit through this. So, what would Ceren hanım
[00:39:04] say as a political communicator and strategist about all that we have discussed?
[00:39:08] Now, Yaşar Aydın asked, "Where is it leaking from, who is leaking it, why is it leaking?"
[00:39:11] What is the reason for this leak? From there, we came to the question,
[00:39:15] is there an internal struggle within the AKP? And based on all this,
[00:39:19] we brought Ömer Çelik's statements to the screens.
[00:39:23] Is the best defense offense? Will such a tactic be followed
[00:39:26] by the AKP in general?
[00:39:29] That's their tactic anyway. Either to project
[00:39:31] responsibility, or to isolate the leader
[00:39:35] from the problem and responsibility,
[00:39:38] or to attack and project all the blame
[00:39:41] onto every political element they can project
[00:39:44] it onto in different areas.
[00:39:48] This has been the AKP's strategy, or rather, the trump cards they used
[00:39:52] in political communication, but the whole
[00:39:55] point here is this: for a very long time,
[00:39:59] since the election, since the election lost in 2023,
[00:40:02] we have been talking about some cliques
[00:40:06] fighting within the People's Alliance,
[00:40:09] not just within the AKP government. That is, we need to include
[00:40:13] the MHP in this. We even discussed this in the Sinan Ateş
[00:40:16] matter. We said it was a fight
[00:40:19] between some cliques of the People's Alliance.
[00:40:23] On the other hand, there is also this situation that needs to be taken
[00:40:27] into account, especially for the opposition
[00:40:31] and the government in the upcoming election.
[00:40:34] While we constantly discuss how the AKP's candidate
[00:40:37] for the election will be Tayyip Erdoğan again,
[00:40:41] the cliques within the AKP are also preparing
[00:40:44] for the post-Erdoğan era. Therefore, it is certain
[00:40:48] that the struggle of these cliques
[00:40:51] has escalated, and even if it's not a clear
[00:40:55] preparation for the post-Erdoğan era,
[00:40:59] even if another candidate will not be put in Erdoğan's
[00:41:02] place immediately in the upcoming snap election,
[00:41:05] in both the possibility of winning and losing
[00:41:09] the elections, serious preparations are being made for the post-Erdoğan era.
[00:41:12] In fact, we are talking about such a preparation
[00:41:16] that former AKP officials, various names from the new opposition
[00:41:19] who were formerly AKP officials, are being warned
[00:41:22] for the purpose of a clean-up of the ground
[00:41:25] for the post-Erdoğan era. The fact that
[00:41:40] he became a politically questionable figure, this was also actually
[00:41:43] a political ground preparation
[00:41:46] for the post-Erdoğan era. And here,
[00:41:50] whether it's after Erdoğan or not, it's certain that there's a struggle
[00:41:54] of certain cliques. Why certain? Because
[00:41:57] we are talking about names
[00:42:01] that are directly from the AKP government.
[00:42:04] Fatma Betül Sayankaya is a very symbolic name, yes, but she is also a name
[00:42:08] at the heart of the AKP government.
[00:42:13] Not only her closeness, but also a name
[00:42:16] whose almost all family members are known to have entered the bureaucracy.
[00:42:20] Therefore, it's not just one name. On the other hand,
[00:42:23] the names that are likely to be mentioned
[00:42:27] in the fund scandal in this government,
[00:42:30] and that are mentioned today,
[00:42:34] are actually names that are very prone
[00:42:38] to clique wars for the AKP.
[00:42:40] On the other hand, what do we see?
[00:42:43] We see that some of the pro-government media are strangely
[00:42:47] pretending that this fund plunder does not exist,
[00:42:51] while others are directing
[00:42:55] the arrows at various names. Even if we only look
[00:42:57] at the pro-government media, here,
[00:43:00] whether it's directly proportional to the leakage or not,
[00:43:03] we see that the information after the leak
[00:43:07] is also being used to make it
[00:43:18] more useful and to extract it.
[00:43:21] In short, what I said earlier is
[00:43:25] that how you frame this issue
[00:43:28] is very vital and very important for the voter.
[00:43:32] Of course, names should come out in this issue.
[00:43:35] Of course, even if those names are only symbolic,
[00:43:39] they are very important for the citizen. It is very important that some
[00:43:42] things are exposed, it is very important for accountability,
[00:43:46] but on the other hand, if we stop seeing
[00:43:49] this framework as a system problem
[00:43:52] and direct the responsibility
[00:43:55] to names, then
[00:43:57] this issue can ensure
[00:44:01] that some names, especially the leaders of the People's Alliance,
[00:44:04] are seen as exempt from the flaws of this system they established,
[00:44:08] from its lack of oversight, and accountability.
[00:44:12] And it can ensure their isolation.
[00:44:15] The biggest risk here is that the system's
[00:44:19] error, the system's flaws
[00:44:22] are perceived as being devoid
[00:44:25] of the power of the issue. Because no matter what you talk about,
[00:44:28] today, whatever plunder we are talking about,
[00:44:32] what is important for the opposition is how much
[00:44:35] these plunders, these exposed scandals, will manifest
[00:44:38] in voting behavior. Ultimately, that is what is important
[00:44:42] for the opposition: will it turn into voting behavior or not?
[00:44:46] For it to turn into voting behavior, it is very important
[00:44:49] to establish this narrative correctly from now on.
[00:44:53] So, what does Bahadır Özgür say about this high level of struggle?
[00:44:56] On the other hand, the social media account of the questioner
[00:45:00] is being blocked. Journalists who ask questions are being detained,
[00:45:03] arrested, and put under house arrest.
[00:45:07] Yaşar Aydın also said earlier that a period
[00:45:10] where they will play harder is ahead. Therefore, how does Bahadır Özgür interpret
[00:45:13] these side by side? Well, Ömer Çelik has not answered
[00:45:17] the simplest and most innocent question in the world for a week.
[00:45:20] He was asked, "Do you know Osman Arıkan Nacar,
[00:45:23] one of the people who plundered the most from the fund?"
[00:45:27] That's all. stole,
[00:45:31] and it was worth it. One question was asked.
[00:45:35] This is very natural, this question is asked everywhere in the world.
[00:45:38] "Do you know him?"
[00:45:41] He could have said, "What's it to you?" He could have said, "He's my friend."
[00:45:44] He could have said, "What he did doesn't concern me, I used to know him, I have no relationship with him now."
[00:45:48] He could have answered this way. But he raised the stakes
[00:45:51] so much because he also knows that, he sees this:
[00:45:55] when there is a 25-year-old government, this government cannot say,
[00:45:58] "This system was established before us," or
[00:46:01] "we didn't appoint these bureaucrats," or "we don't have political
[00:46:04] responsibility, it's the responsibility of the audit institutions," because
[00:46:08] everyone is from themselves, everyone is in charge.
[00:46:14] For this reason, nothing can happen without information leaking in this regime,
[00:46:18] because we ask, they don't say. Look, when there is a government
[00:46:22] that doesn't even answer a simple question, that doesn't say, "I don't know," or "I know,"
[00:46:25] nobody can learn anything without leakage from here.
[00:46:29] That's why Ömer Çelik's reaction
[00:46:31] is not to this question. He says, "My relationship
[00:46:35] with this person, only my circle can know.
[00:46:38] Who knows Osman Nacar?" None of us
[00:46:41] would know. How did this leak?" Now, he understands
[00:46:44] something more dangerous, as Yaşar abi said,
[00:46:48] "What will happen if the opposition says it? They are already under protection, they are not being prosecuted."
[00:46:53] No AKP member is being prosecuted anyway. But because he thinks
[00:46:56] this information is leaking from within, he is also seized with political panic.
[00:47:00] For this reason, those words about "we will raise the stakes"
[00:47:03] or "unity and solidarity" or "we will go on the political defense"
[00:47:06] are not just something directed at the opposition,
[00:47:09] it also lowers his reflex. He says inside, "Look,
[00:47:13] if we don't do something, we will fall apart." That is, "we will suffer damage from this."
[00:47:17] That's why they are passing the law, that's why they are silencing journalists.
[00:47:20] There is nothing in the photo published by that journalist,
[00:47:24] no element of crime. Ömer Çelik could have easily
[00:47:28] denied this and filed a compensation lawsuit. He could have said, "No, I don't know him, why are you associating me?"
[00:47:31] But he doesn't answer. It would be naive
[00:47:34] to think that a government that does not answer the question,
[00:47:37] "Do you know him?", can solve this
[00:47:41] or even question it a little. All their reactions are because
[00:47:44] of that, I agree too, that
[00:47:47] instead of an external factor that forces them,
[00:47:51] it's about the conflict they experience within themselves,
[00:47:54] and whether other information will leak. Now the fear is that
[00:47:58] will other names also go through this?
[00:48:01] They are afraid of being thrown to the public if they do,
[00:48:05] so they are trying to block these channels using the power they have.
[00:48:08] So, do you also observe such a leakage concern, Mr. Uzun,
[00:48:12] regarding the upcoming period
[00:48:14] within the government? I think
[00:48:18] that politically, such leaks will happen,
[00:48:21] because... things are being done
[00:48:25] that not everyone
[00:48:27] can accept. I also see
[00:48:30] and sense that a certain
[00:48:33] struggle for power within the government is intensifying.
[00:48:37] And from time to time, it is reflected
[00:48:41] in the public. I would like to continue
[00:48:44] with an evaluation of Ömer Çelik's words.
[00:48:48] Let me come back to this
[00:48:51] and the intensifying power struggle.
[00:48:55] I would expect that in the country,
[00:48:58] this century's robbery,
[00:49:00] While Mr. Çelik has a strong
[00:49:03] fighting spirit, I would have expected him
[00:49:07] to respond by saying that they will eradicate
[00:49:10] this with a stronger fighting spirit
[00:49:13] against those who committed and caused this robbery. What a responsible
[00:49:17] politician should have done
[00:49:20] was this.
[00:49:24] talking about threatening, increasing
[00:49:28] pressure on municipalities that align with
[00:49:31] the political understanding of those
[00:49:34] who brought this to the agenda, and engaging
[00:49:38] in a strong fight. First,
[00:49:41] you should convince the public
[00:49:45] that you are not involved in this robbery
[00:49:48] of the century, that you did not
[00:49:51] condone it, and that despite
[00:49:54] taking necessary measures,
[00:49:58] these things happened. Work
[00:50:01] to achieve this and engage
[00:50:05] in a strong fight. But since
[00:50:08] you know you cannot do this,
[00:50:12] you are saying that you will work
[00:50:15] by entering a high-level
[00:50:19] struggle mode over the municipalities,
[00:50:22] hinting at hidden threats,
[00:50:26] because everyone now believes
[00:50:30] that this happened through political
[00:50:34] connections. Are you not
[00:50:36] already doing this? If
[00:50:39] there is something you are not
[00:50:42] doing as the government,
[00:50:45] it's another problem. Have you not
[00:50:49] been in a high-level
[00:50:53] struggle to seize municipalities
[00:50:55] by appointing trustees,
[00:50:58] by arresting officials,
[00:51:02] and even by making transfers in places
[00:51:05] where there are none?
[00:51:09] Are you threatening us, do you
[00:51:12] think we will give up on
[00:51:16] working to expose this robbery
[00:51:19] of the century and informing the public
[00:51:23] because we are being threatened?
[00:51:26] Whatever happened will
[00:51:30] come out. Whoever stole the
[00:51:32] people's money will be revealed. I
[00:51:36] have a word
[00:51:38] for Mr. Güler,
[00:51:41] the group leader. Did you say
[00:51:44] we should reveal the names
[00:51:48] of 455,578 people? If these
[00:51:51] 455,578 people,
[00:51:54] like Fatma Betül Sayankaya,
[00:51:57] took 2 billion liras from the people's
[00:52:01] pockets, then reveal
[00:52:05] all of them. We expect you to
[00:52:08] disclose the list and names
[00:52:12] of those who, within this group
[00:52:16] of 455,578 people,
[00:52:19] took advantage of information
[00:52:22] obtained from within
[00:52:25] for their own benefit,
[00:52:28] harming these people. The rule
[00:52:31] you mentioned regarding
[00:52:35] their right to be presumed
[00:52:38] innocent is not a rule that
[00:52:42] prevents an investigation
[00:52:46] for those for whom there is reasonable
[00:52:50] suspicion of having committed
[00:52:53] a crime. Revealing these names
[00:52:56] does not mean that the presumption
[00:53:00] of innocence has been violated.
[00:53:03] You would announce that
[00:53:07] these cases have been
[00:53:10] referred to the prosecutor's
[00:53:13] office, and we would
[00:53:16] evaluate it based
[00:53:20] on the information from the
[00:53:23] prosecutor's office
[00:53:26] and judicial authorities.
[00:53:29] But you have no
[00:53:32] right to conceal
[00:53:35] and protect them. Especially,
[00:53:38] if these individuals
[00:53:42] have political identities
[00:53:46] or political affiliations,
[00:53:50] you are
[00:53:52] obliged to disclose
[00:53:56] them not only legally
[00:54:00] but also politically,
[00:54:03] because this nation did
[00:54:06] not give you the authority
[00:54:10] to be robbed
[00:54:13] through your cronies.
[00:54:16] It gave you the authority
[00:54:19] to govern this country
[00:54:22] within the framework of laws.
[00:54:25] Whoever violates
[00:54:29] these laws, even if
[00:54:33] it's you,
[00:54:35] you must disclose it
[00:54:39] and be accountable
[00:54:42] to the people. Let
[00:54:46] this be clearly known.
[00:54:49] A question came to mind
[00:54:52] while you were speaking,
[00:54:56] Mr. Uzun. Are there other
[00:55:00] people who have gained
[00:55:03] more than 2 billion
[00:55:07] liras or more? It seems
[00:55:10] so. Because
[00:55:14] there is a list regarding
[00:55:17] this, and it is
[00:55:21] stated that the person
[00:55:24] who allegedly gained the
[00:55:27] most money
[00:55:31] took the money
[00:55:34] abroad in a rowboat,
[00:55:38] in quotation marks. Those
[00:55:41] people know who they are.
[00:55:44] This country's money,
[00:55:48] even the money of people
[00:55:52] who invested small amounts
[00:55:55] to protect themselves
[00:55:59] from inflation and earn
[00:56:02] a little, is now
[00:56:05] abroad,
[00:56:08] and everyone should know
[00:56:11] that there is no
[00:56:15] possibility of it being
[00:56:18] brought back. Those who
[00:56:22] took it added it
[00:56:25] to the economies of other
[00:56:29] countries. It will never
[00:56:33] come back.
[00:56:37] My friend told me today
[00:56:40] that due to a planned
[00:56:44] surgery that cost
[00:56:48] a significant amount,
[00:56:51] he invested the money he had
[00:56:55] in a fund. Now he
[00:56:58] cannot get his
[00:57:01] money back from the
[00:57:06] fund, and he cannot
[00:57:10] have the surgery.
[00:57:13] There are such victims.
[00:57:17] We will discuss
[00:57:20] how those who invested
[00:57:23] money in the
[00:57:26] fund will get it back
[00:57:30] and how much they
[00:57:34] will get. Dear viewers,
[00:57:37] before we move on,
[00:57:40] let me say this
[00:57:43] to my teacher, Yalçın.
[00:57:46] Since we mentioned
[00:57:49] Ömer Çelik's statements,
[00:57:52] Yalçın Hoca says that
[00:57:55] Ömer Çelik states that
[00:57:58] such events happen all
[00:58:01] over the world, reminding
[00:58:05] us of the Madoff case.
[00:58:09] He says that similar
[00:58:12] frauds arising from
[00:58:16] legal loopholes
[00:58:19] can occur in many
[00:58:22] developed countries.
[00:58:26] However, he states
[00:58:29] that while liquidation
[00:58:33] processes in the world
[00:58:36] take 5 to 9
[00:58:39] years, President
[00:58:43] Erdoğan personally showed
[00:58:46] his will, and they
[00:58:50] immediately started
[00:58:53] payment processes
[00:58:57] in Turkey at a
[00:59:00] fast pace. What
[00:59:03] do you say at
[00:59:06] this point? On the one
[00:59:10] hand, the concern of the citizens
[00:59:14] is, of course,
[00:59:17] that this damage
[00:59:20] will be recovered
[00:59:24] from these
[00:59:27] individuals and paid
[00:59:30] to the victims.
[00:59:34] This is everyone's
[00:59:37] expectation. Will it
[00:59:41] be collected from the
[00:59:44] fraudsters rather
[00:59:48] than from the state's
[00:59:50] and nation's pockets?
[00:59:54] Or will public
[00:59:58] resources be used?
[01:00:01] This is the question on our
[01:00:05] minds. What do
[01:00:08] you say? Now,
[01:00:11] saying that such events
[01:00:15] happen all over the
[01:00:18] world is, I think,
[01:00:22] a statement intended
[01:00:24] to downplay the fund
[01:00:28] robbery we experienced
[01:00:31] in Turkey. Because
[01:00:35] when we look at
[01:00:38] the world, which for
[01:00:41] us means Western
[01:00:45] countries
[01:00:47] or America, yes, we
[01:00:51] see that there have
[01:00:55] been frauds in funds
[01:00:58] from time to time.
[01:01:01] But I don't remember
[01:01:05] any examples where the
[01:01:08] ruling party
[01:01:11] was directly involved,
[01:01:15] like in our case.
[01:01:19] When we look at
[01:01:23] the names that have
[01:01:26] been exposed so far,
[01:01:29] I don't recall
[01:01:32] any examples where people
[01:01:36] directly associated
[01:01:40] with the government
[01:01:43] and in power had significant
[01:01:48] shares and made
[01:01:51] a lot of money
[01:01:55] from this fraud.
[01:01:58] So, if Mr.
[01:02:01] Çelik could provide
[01:02:04] examples of other
[01:02:08] countries where those
[01:02:11] in power
[01:02:12] were involved
[01:02:17] in such frauds,
[01:02:21] then we could compare
[01:02:25] how our situation
[01:02:28] is different from others.
[01:02:32] Therefore, what we
[01:02:36] have here is
[01:02:39] not something
[01:02:43] similar to the
[01:02:46] examples companies.
[01:02:50] What do
[01:02:53] I base
[01:02:57] because disclosed
[01:03:00] leaked to
[01:03:04] public. we
[01:03:06] have them.
[01:03:09] it have
[01:03:13] covered That's
[01:03:16] they now
[01:03:19] to it
[01:03:23] While to
[01:03:26] İsmail said
[01:03:30] was he
[01:03:34] it. balloon
[01:03:37] After burst,
[01:03:41] New effort
[01:03:44] İsmail under
[01:03:48] arrest. what
[01:03:51] saying.
[01:03:53] the
[01:03:55] investigation this:
[01:03:59] fund were
[01:04:02] They arrested
[01:04:06] to transactions
[01:04:09] the market.
[01:04:13] journalists arrested
[01:04:16] they on
[01:04:20] According the
[01:04:24] there no
[01:04:27] culprits. it.
[01:04:31] that's we...
[01:04:34] we don't buy
[01:04:37] it, what
[01:04:40] would be the benefit
[01:04:44] if we
[01:04:46] do?" No
[01:04:50] discussion was
[01:04:53] held. It was
[01:04:57] immediately intervened.
[01:05:00] It was stated
[01:05:04] that it would be
[01:05:07] acquired. Now,
[01:05:10] a formal
[01:05:14] application has been
[01:05:18] made to the
[01:05:22] competition board.
[01:05:25] What will the
[01:05:29] competition board
[01:05:33] say? Of course,
[01:05:36] it will say
[01:05:40] "buy it."
[01:05:44] So we
[01:05:47] anticipate what
[01:05:51] decision will
[01:05:54] come out.
[01:05:56] Therefore, we
[01:06:00] openly returning
[01:06:04] money that came
[01:06:07] as a result of an
[01:06:11] action. Was she
[01:06:15] a minister or a
[01:06:19] former minister?
[01:06:22] Was she in the
[01:06:25] party?
[01:06:30] connection was
[01:06:33] lost or
[01:06:37] if Mr.
[01:06:39] Karatepe had
[01:06:43] finished his
[01:06:46] remarks. So
[01:06:50] I'm this.
[01:06:54] But more
[01:06:58] importantly, because
[01:07:01] a proper
[01:07:04] investigation was
[01:07:08] not carried
[01:07:11] out, because
[01:07:15] state financial
[01:07:18] experts and
[01:07:21] inspectors were
[01:07:25] not mobilized,
[01:07:28] etc., those
[01:07:32] who know
[01:07:35] these matters,
[01:07:39] if they
[01:07:42] had examined
[01:07:45] the stock
[01:07:49] market, they
[01:07:52] would have
[01:07:56] seen from
[01:07:59] whom the
[01:08:02] investment banks
[01:08:06] associated with
[01:08:10] these funds
[01:08:13] borrowed money.
[01:08:16] Let's pause
[01:08:19] here with
[01:08:23] this question.
[01:08:27] Bahadır Özgür
[01:08:31] will continue
[01:08:34] after the
[01:08:38] break. Professor
[01:08:42] Dr.
[01:08:46] Yalçın Karatepe,
[01:08:49] thank you,
[01:08:53] Mr. Karatepe,
[01:08:57] for your
[01:09:42] contribution. Have
[01:09:46] a good
[01:09:50] night. Thank
[01:09:52] you. Let's
[01:09:56] take a
[01:09:59] quick break,
[01:10:03] and then
[01:10:07] Bahadır Özgür
[01:10:10] will
[01:10:13] explain. Yes,
[01:10:16] "Söz Sende"
[01:10:20] continues on
[01:10:24] Halk TV
[01:10:26] with the
[01:10:29] remote connection
[01:10:32] to Yeni
[01:10:36] Party Muğla
[01:10:39] Deputy Cumhur
[01:10:42] Uzun and
[01:10:46] our esteemed
[01:10:50] guests in the
[01:10:53] studio. Now,
[01:10:56] since we
[01:10:59] are going
[01:11:02] to a
[01:11:06] break, Bahadır
[01:11:10] Özgür couldn't
[01:11:13] finish his
[01:11:16] statement. Let
[01:11:19] him finish.
[01:11:22] Let's continue.
[01:11:26] So, this
[01:11:30] is not
[01:11:34] just about
[01:11:37] funds. There
[01:11:41] is
[01:11:43] stock speculation
[01:11:47] here. These
[01:11:51] extend back
[01:11:55] several years.
[01:11:58] There are
[01:12:02] obviously signed
[01:12:06] documents in
[01:12:09] public offerings.
[01:12:13] They are
[01:12:16] also part
[01:12:20] of the
[01:12:24] manipulation. Therefore,
[01:12:27] the number
[01:12:31] of people
[01:12:34] affected is
[01:12:38] very large. It's
[01:12:55] not limited
[01:12:59] to "we
[01:13:02] will pay
[01:13:06] for the
[01:13:09] funds." The
[01:13:13] real social
[01:13:17] cost is
[01:13:20] Ceren law, so
[01:13:23] let's not get into this. "Who
[01:13:27] is the name, who will be judged, who will not there is no such thing, look, it's being
[01:13:31] continued with something built on lies, so
[01:13:34] the AKP politicians are shouting, calling out, saying it's a stain, they say
[01:13:37] let's delay the parliament, in a way, they are
[01:13:41] honestly shrouding it in a veil of
[01:13:44] mist, as if there was something, as if there was
[01:13:48] an investigation, as if the prosecutor was taking these statements,
[01:13:51] they are portraying something like that,
[01:14:03] so there is no, no, okay. They narrowed down the crime to only the owners
[01:14:06] of the fund, meaning these 20 billion dollars? So, only the managers of the fund, those companies, yes,
[01:14:10] only the team that organized this, that facilitated
[01:14:13] this work, is currently inside. As Bahadir also stated,
[01:14:17] between 3 and 5 years, we will see these friends
[01:14:20] on the street in two months, in cafes and so on,
[01:14:23] probably even if they don't get their money back. We won't see them as poor,
[01:14:26] we'll see them as people who are well-off,
[01:14:29] their reputations will be restored, there's
[01:14:33] really nothing like that. If this law was not
[01:14:37] coming to parliament, maybe we would say, "They can't
[01:14:40] close this matter like this, it must turn into
[01:14:44] an investigation," but they will bring a law to parliament
[01:14:48] now, that law is coming specifically to prevent
[01:14:52] its investigation, not to deepen it. No
[01:14:55] parliamentary commission is being set up, it's not being
[01:14:59] said, "Let's discuss this in parliament, let the
[01:15:02] names come out." A law will come
[01:15:05] to parliament next week to officially close it.
[01:15:08] We are in an environment where we were robbed,
[01:15:12] and the thief was caught, but we cannot reach
[01:15:16] the thief's identity. Friends, they did
[01:15:19] not only rob the fund or the number
[01:15:22] of people, they robbed all citizens, the
[01:15:25] public. We were talking about this earlier; one
[01:15:29] third of the tradesmen in Kadıköy put money
[01:15:32] into this fund, and now they are thinking,
[01:15:35] "How will we pay this employee? How
[01:15:39] will we buy materials?" This similar story exists
[01:15:42] all over Turkey. I apologize, let me correct
[01:15:46] myself, they are angry because they didn't invest
[01:15:49] in the fund, they saw it as a safe
[01:15:53] place in the stock market. So, they say,
[01:15:57] "We didn't get involved in the fund." We're
[01:16:00] suffering from this, all the stocks in the
[01:16:04] stock market hit rock bottom. It will probably
[01:16:07] take months for it to go up again
[01:16:10] to the same level, even if it reaches
[01:16:13] the same level, there's nothing they will
[01:16:16] gain. They lost that place and so
[01:16:19] on. There's really a widespread victim of
[01:16:23] theft, but there's no
[01:16:34] thief. Now, there's no thief. 214 fund
[01:16:37] managers earned 187 billion Turkish Liras. But
[01:16:40] as our guests, Bahadır Özgür, also stated,
[01:16:44] will its effects increase in waves
[01:16:47] in the coming period? Will we see the
[01:16:50] aftershocks? Of course, we will see that
[01:16:54] in time. Now, Özgür Özel, the new general
[01:16:57] chairman, let his statements come. I
[01:17:00] ask my friends to bring up visual number 12.
[01:17:04] Regarding the number he gave, he emphasized that these
[01:17:07] 214 people have the right to not be revealed,
[01:17:10] saying, "Will they be announced or not?" Now,
[01:17:13] Özgür Özel is also asking today, "Does
[01:17:16] the right to not be revealed belong only
[01:17:20] to the AKP?" Let's see what Özgür
[01:17:23] Özel says, my friends
[01:17:26] brought it to the screens. "Hiding the names
[01:17:29] of these people who pave the way for lies
[01:17:32] and slander, and making them instrumental
[01:17:36] in power struggles within the AKP, a lot
[01:17:39] of lists are circulating.
[01:17:41] Politicians are trying to confirm these names.
[01:17:45] We didn't announce the names without confirmation.
[01:17:49] There was only one person with the same
[01:17:52] name as Minister Mahinur Göktaş's father. We
[01:17:56] apologize for that. But does the right to
[01:17:59] not be stained belong
[01:18:02] only to AKP politicians? The cure for the
[01:18:06] right to not be stained is transparency."
[01:18:09] All photos from the mobile phone of a person
[01:18:13] not involved in the investigation are being
[01:18:16] served. While the situation is like this
[01:18:20] when you are in opposition, when it's
[01:18:24] the AKP, they say our friends shouldn't
[01:18:27] be stained, said Özgür Özel.
[01:18:30] Cumhuriyet Newspaper also had important statements from
[01:18:34] him. Now, let's ask Mr. Uzun.
[01:18:37] Does the right to not be stained belong
[01:18:41] only to the AKP, only to AKP politicians?
[01:18:43] Özgür Özel asks this question. What
[01:18:47] do you say to this question, Mr. Uzun?
[01:18:51] If you have a country that applies different
[01:18:55] laws to friends and enemies,
[01:18:58] yes, we are such a country, you experience
[01:19:02] exactly these things. However, the constitutional
[01:19:06] right to not be stained is a
[01:19:09] right that exists for all citizens. When
[01:19:12] you expose your opponents through the media that
[01:19:16] has become your own broadcasting organ,
[01:19:18] without thinking while acting, and
[01:19:21] then remember the right to not
[01:19:24] be stained when it comes to you, you
[01:19:28] lose all credibility. If the right to
[01:19:32] not be stained is a right for your
[01:19:35] friends, and if this really protects
[01:19:38] the security of a citizen as
[01:19:41] a right, you must apply it for
[01:19:44] all citizens. However, you don't behave
[01:19:47] like this at all. You can't perceive
[01:19:51] it as "the judiciary doesn't behave like
[01:19:55] this at all," because the units
[01:19:58] affiliated with you,
[01:20:02] gibi kendi işinize geldiği zaman
[01:20:04] hatırlayan, ama bunun gerçek... anlam ve
[01:20:08] değerini idrak edememiş yöneticilersiniz, eğer öyle
[01:20:12] olmasaydı, bu hak konusundaki hassasiyetinizi
[01:20:15] herkes için gösterir, bundan sonrası için de teminat
[01:20:19] oluştururdunuz. Burada ben Sayın
[01:20:22] Özgür'ün ifade ettiği bu işin boyutunun Türkiye ekonomisi
[01:20:26] açısından ne kadar geniş olduğu konusuna bir kez
[01:20:29] daha dönmek isterim, çünkü
[01:20:32] borsaların temeli güven esasına göre
[01:20:35] çalışır ve eğer. eğer siz bir ülkenin
[01:20:39] borsasına ya o ülkeyeye
[01:20:41] güvenmiyorsanız, orada sizin güveninizi kıracak
[01:20:45] herhangi bir şey yaşandıysa bu
[01:20:48] dalga dalga bütün ekonomik
[01:20:51] yapıya yayılır ve bu yayılmanın sonucu
[01:20:55] olarak da siz orada varlığını
[01:20:58] düşündüğünüz kaydi değerleri hepsini
[01:21:01] yitirirsiniz, sizin borsanızın bir
[01:21:04] değeri vardır, değer güvenle bir birlikte
[01:21:08] hızla azalır, alanı olmaz, gerçek
[01:21:11] değerinin altında değerlere iner
[01:21:15] ve siz yine de alıcı bulamazsınız, bu nedenle sadece
[01:21:19] fonla sınırlı olmayan İstanbul
[01:21:22] Menkul Kıymetler borsasında işlem gören
[01:21:25] bütün hisse senetlerini etkilemiş hale
[01:21:29] gelen bu vurgunun yüzyılın
[01:21:32] soygunnun ülkeyeye zararının
[01:21:34] hesaplanması öyle sanıldığı kadar... Basit
[01:21:37] değil, bütün hisselerdeki değer kayıplarıyla
[01:21:41] birlikte ortaya konularak çıkarılmak durumunda.
[01:21:45] Hatta biraz önceki örnekte Sayın Aydın dedi ki,
[01:21:48] eee, buradaki borsaya
[01:21:51] parasını, esnaf yatırmış, oradan bir kısım gelir
[01:21:55] elde etmek ya da enflasyona ezilmemek üzere
[01:21:58] bekletirken, bugün taban yapmış olan
[01:22:01] hisseler nedeniyle ödemesi geldiği
[01:22:05] için o fiyattan satmak zorunda. alacak esnaf,
[01:22:08] dolayısıyla onun da kendi açısından duyduğu
[01:22:11] zararların tek tek tek tek toplanması lazım,
[01:22:15] bu milyonlarca insanı ilgilendiren bir
[01:22:18] hale dönüşmüş durumda. Öte
[01:22:21] yandan, bu işlemlerin
[01:22:23] aslında bu soruşturmaların, hani açılmamış olan
[01:22:27] soruşturmaların açılması halinde
[01:22:31] ispatlanması kadar kolay bir
[01:22:34] durumla karşı karşıyayız. Bu
[01:22:38] adli süreç açısından söylüyorum, çünkü bu
[01:22:41] işlemlerin tamamı kayıtlı işlemler,
[01:22:44] kayıtlı işlemler de siz suçu
[01:22:47] ortaya çıkarmak için elinizde bütün deliller
[01:22:51] var demektir, yeter ki siz onu soruşturmak
[01:22:54] isteyin, çünkü açıktan yapılan işlemler değil,
[01:22:58] biri birisine gitmiş, bir çuval parayı teslim etmiş, yani eee
[01:23:02] açıktan yapılan kayıt dışı yapılan işlemler
[01:23:05] değil, hepsi kayıt altında siz... Bunu bulmak
[01:23:08] istiyorsanız, bunu gerçekten soruşturmak
[01:23:11] istiyorsanız, parayı takip etmeniz yetiyor,
[01:23:14] para ne olmuş, ne büyümüş, nereye
[01:23:18] the units of the
[01:23:22] Ministry of Interior, are already struggling
[01:23:25] to clear their names for days, months,
[01:23:27] years, even when their right to
[01:23:31] defense is restricted, after being declared
[01:23:35] guilty at the beginning of the
[01:23:38] investigation. Look, in the processes that have occurred
[01:23:42] over the years, people who have been
[01:23:45] in custody for years are acquitted.
[01:23:48] They faced very
[01:23:50] likely accusations, how will you compensate
[01:23:54] for the cases where they were exposed
[01:23:56] by violating the right to be
[01:23:59] untarnished, which was etched into memories
[01:24:03] with the first images served when
[01:24:07] they were acquitted of these? You
[01:24:10] won't be able to compensate at all.
[01:24:13] Excuse me, you are managers who
[01:24:16] remember the right to be untarnished
[01:24:20] only when it suits you, just
[01:24:23] like in democracy, but you have
[01:24:26] not grasped its true meaning and
[01:24:29] value. If that were not the
[01:24:33] case, you would show your sensitivity regarding this right
[01:24:37] for everyone and create a guarantee
[01:24:40] for the future. Here, I would
[01:24:43] like to return once again to
[01:24:45] the issue of how broad the
[01:24:49] dimension of this matter is for the Turkish economy,
[01:24:53] as Mr. Özgür stated, because
[01:24:55] the foundation of stock markets operates
[01:24:59] on the basis of trust. And
[01:25:03] if you don't trust a country's
[01:25:06] stock market or that country, and
[01:25:10] if something happens there that shatters
[01:25:13] your trust, this spreads like wildfire
[01:25:17] throughout the entire economic structure, and
[01:25:21] as a result of this spread,
[01:25:24] you lose all the book values
[01:25:28] that you thought existed there. Your
[01:25:31] stock market has a value, and
[01:25:34] that value rapidly decreases with trust,
[01:25:38] there are no buyers, it falls below
[01:25:41] its real value, and you still
[01:25:45] can't find buyers. Therefore, calculating
[01:25:48] the damage to
[01:25:50] the country from this fraud, which
[01:25:54] is not limited to the fund but affects all
[01:25:58] stocks traded on the Istanbul Stock
[01:26:01] Exchange, is not as simple as
[01:26:05] it seems. It must be presented
[01:26:08] along with the value losses in
[01:26:10] all stocks. Even in the previous
[01:26:14] example, Mr. Aydın said that
[01:26:17] the tradesman invested his money in
[01:26:21] the stock market to earn some
[01:26:24] income or to avoid being crushed
[01:26:27] by inflation, but today he is
[01:26:31] forced to sell at that price
[01:26:35] because his payment is due, due
[01:26:38] to the stocks that have bottomed
[01:26:42] out. So, the tradesman who will
[01:26:45] buy it also needs to have
[01:26:49] his damages calculated one by one.
[01:26:53] This has turned into a situation
[01:26:56] that concerns millions of people. On
[01:26:59] the other hand, we are facing
[01:27:02] a situation that is as easy
[01:27:05] to prove as these transactions,
[01:27:09] actually these investigations that have not
[01:27:12] been opened, if they were opened.
[01:27:16] I'm saying this from a judicial
[01:27:19] process perspective, because all of these
[01:27:22] transactions are recorded transactions. And
[01:27:26] in recorded transactions, you have all
[01:27:30] the evidence in your hand to
[01:27:33] uncover the crime, as long as
[01:27:36] you want to investigate it, because
[01:27:39] these are not transactions made
[01:27:43] openly, where someone went and handed
[01:27:46] over a sack of money to
[01:27:50] someone else, meaning these are not
[01:27:53] unregistered transactions made openly, all
[01:27:56] of them are recorded. If you
[01:27:59] want to find this, if you
[01:28:03] really want to investigate this,
[01:28:05] it's enough to follow the money.
[01:28:08] What happened to the money, how
[01:28:12] much did it grow, where did
[01:28:16] it go, and then finally,
[01:28:19] where did it park? You have
[01:28:22] a system to track this. When
[01:28:25] you track this, you can immediately
[01:28:29] reveal who benefited, who is related
[01:28:32] to whom, and
[01:28:36] karinesi konusundaki eee açıklamaları önemliydi. Ne
[01:28:40] demişti, Abdullah Güler, ya biz Ak parti olarak masumiyet
[01:28:44] karinesine son derece dikkat ediyoruz demişti, bu
[01:28:47] kişilerin isimrinin açıklanma çağrısına. Öyle
[01:28:50] olunca, eee gün boyu sosyal medya üzerinden yurttaşın
[01:28:54] sorduğu bazı sorular da vardı. 15 numaralı görseli
[01:28:57] arkadaşlarım ekranlara getirirse onu da eee paylaşalım, mesela
[01:29:00] eee en çok. sorduğumuz sorulardan biri aklımıza
[01:29:04] gelen sorulardan biri şu eee bu görüntüler daha çok
[01:29:08] yeni geçtiğimiz eee hafta eee kayıtlara
[01:29:11] geçti Mersin Mersin'de gerçekleşen
[01:29:14] operasyonlarda eee sabaha karşı kapısı
[01:29:18] çalınan bir belediye başkanının eşi sabaha
[01:29:21] karşı uykusundan uyanıp pijamayla kapıyı açtığında örneğin
[01:29:25] eee onun kimi kanallarda izlediğimiz
[01:29:28] görüntüleri e hal böyle olunca eee acaba
[01:29:31] onların lekelenme? hakkı yok muydu sorusunu
[01:29:34] gündeme getirdi. Komedyen Deniz Göktaş
[01:29:37] yaptığı stand-up gösterisiyle milyonnarca kişiye
[01:29:41] ulaşan Deniz Göktaş. Onun
[01:29:44] gözaltına alındıktan sonra yine pek
[01:29:47] çok televizyon kanalında izlediğimiz bu görüntüleri ki
[01:29:51] daha önce bu görüntülerin defalarca çekildiğini söylemişti
[01:29:54] hatırlayacaksınız. Onun lekelenme hakkı yok muydu?
[01:29:57] Sorusunu gündeme getirdi. Türkiye'nin hafızasından silinmeyecek
[01:30:01] fotoğraflardan. "IBB'ye yönelik bu
[01:30:04] operasyonlarda dizilen belediye başkanları,
[01:30:08] bürokratlar, peki ya onların lekelenme
[01:30:10] hakkı yok muydu diye soruldu. Ne
[01:30:14] dersiniz bu sorulara Yaşar Aydın? Saban
[01:30:17] köründe sanatçıları gözaltına alıp uyuşturucu testine
[01:30:20] götürüyorlar, bir hafta sonra sanatçılar testim
[01:30:24] negatif diye açıklamak zorunda kalıyor, yani bırakın şu
[01:30:27] görüntüleri, yani onu bile yapıyorlar, sabahın
[01:30:31] köründe o yüzden ani AKP. in bir AKP'linin bu meseleye
[01:30:34] böyle yaklaşması gerçekten ciddiye alınacak üzerine konuşacak bir durum
[01:30:38] değil, ayrıca anlattıkları şey lekelenmemeyle de
[01:30:41] ilgili bir şey değil, yani bu örnekler doğru
[01:30:45] örnekler ama bu fonla ilgili itirazları doğru bir itiraz
[01:30:48] değil, çünkü iş belli, yasal olarak belli, biz gazeteciyiz, haber
[01:30:52] yapıyoruz, yaptığımız haberle ilgili soruşturma
[01:30:55] açılabilir, dava açılabilir, bu biz
[01:30:58] lekelendiğimiz anlamına gelmiyor, biz gider
[01:31:01] savcılıkta bunun... savunmasını veririz, her şey yanlışsa da
[01:31:05] cezamızı yatarız, yani biz niye savcılığa gittik, niye adımız
[01:31:08] böyle, yeter ki ifadeye çağırsınlar, sabahın köründe
[01:31:11] kapamıza dayanmasınlar, biz gideriz zaten bir meslek erbabı olarak
[01:31:15] gider konuşuruz, burada da insanların
[01:31:18] greater pressure. And actually,
[01:31:22] this discourse, which talks
[01:31:26] about the current situation and
[01:31:29] which we find extremely comical,
[01:32:02] indicates that the competitive
[01:32:06] authoritarian system has become
[01:32:08] even more rigid, that
[01:32:12] the right of journalists to
[01:32:16] provide information needs to
[01:32:20] be restricted, or that there
[01:32:23] are journalists who impose
[01:32:26] self-censorship on themselves
[01:32:30] on one side, and on the
[01:32:34] other side, we are talking
[01:32:38] about a system, a
[01:32:42] ground, that is not explicitly
[01:32:46] named, which aims to
[01:32:49] usurp the citizen's right
[01:32:52] to information. Therefore, nothing
[01:32:55] we talk about is individually
[01:32:59] about a law, legally,
[01:33:02] about a statute, about a law
[01:33:06] article, individually
[01:33:09] being stretched, or about certain
[01:33:12] initiatives being taken personally.
[01:33:15] Actually, all of these are
[01:33:19] systemic problems, and all of
[01:33:21] them lead to a very fundamental
[01:33:24] problem related to the shaking
[01:33:28] of the ground that is the reason for
[01:33:32] the existence of the justice
[01:33:35] system in Turkey. Okay,
[01:33:38] now there was a post
[01:33:42] by Şamil Tayyar just
[01:33:45] now. My friends should bring
[01:33:49] that to the screens as
[01:33:52] well. "Here are the fund
[01:33:56] manipulators, their right to be
[01:33:59] unstained, in quotation marks,"
[01:34:02] was one of today's most
[01:34:05] discussed topics. Now, what's
[01:34:08] happening in the investigation? What
[01:34:11] else? Let's read this
[01:34:15] post, and I'll go to
[01:34:18] Bahadır Özgür with this
[01:34:22] question. So, Şamil Tayyar
[01:34:25] says, "The Istanbul Chief
[01:34:29] Public Prosecutor's Office has
[01:34:33] frozen the accounts of
[01:34:37] 141 individuals and 73
[01:34:41] firms with a total of
[01:34:44] 187.653 billion Liras
[01:34:48] in 3 funds. This
[01:34:51] list was created from
[01:34:54] those who gained
[01:34:58] over 100 million Liras
[01:35:01] in unjust enrichment. This
[01:35:05] is an extremely appropriate and
[01:35:08] timely decision." he says.
[01:35:11] However, it's incomplete.
[01:35:15] Why should an individual
[01:35:19] or firm that made
[01:35:22] a profit of 99, 98,
[01:35:25] or 97 million Liras
[01:35:29] be exempt? He asks
[01:35:32] a fair question here,
[01:35:36] especially since it's a crime.
[01:35:39] example, Fatih Ergün's reason for arrest
[01:35:42] is being called a "court doctor"
[01:35:45] instead of a "prison
[01:35:52] doctor." In this situation, Fatih
[01:35:55] Ergün is facing an unbelievable
[01:35:58] accusation like imprisonment. Tuğba
[01:36:01] Tekerek, that is, for a
[01:36:05] crime she didn't commit, just because
[01:36:09] her name was mentioned, today she is forced to
[01:36:12] sleep on a mattress right
[01:36:15] next to the toilet. İsmail
[01:36:18] Saymaz and Murat Ağırel are
[01:36:21] under house arrest. Now, let alone
[01:36:25] the right to not be stained, you are leaving
[01:36:29] citizens facing a system that
[01:36:32] even takes away people's individual
[01:36:35] rights and freedoms, their right to
[01:36:39] practice their profession. So, it's not
[01:36:42] even the right to not be
[01:36:52] stained, I mean, today, even talking
[01:36:56] about the right to not be
[01:37:00] stained is a great luxury,
[01:37:04] at least for the opposition,
[01:37:07] because on one hand, there is
[01:37:11] the right to not be stained,
[01:37:16] a very great human right,
[01:37:19] but on the other hand, there
[01:37:22] are situations where fundamental rights
[01:37:24] and freedoms are almost
[01:37:28] crushed by a crane, as
[01:37:31] I said a moment ago.
[01:37:34] Now, how many forgotten names
[01:37:37] are there within this? I mean,
[01:37:41] we even forget the names we
[01:37:45] have to remind every day, in this intense
[01:37:49] agenda. Therefore, it's truly laughable
[01:37:52] for any AK Party official to
[01:37:55] talk about the If we are talking about income, there is no
[01:37:59] less or more, it is not right to set a limit. I think this limit should be
[01:38:03] removed. He also said that it is important that the collection process be completed
[01:38:06] in a short time so that the blocking decision does not cause grievances.
[01:38:10] How will it be done? Of course, this stage is important, how is that collection?
[01:38:13] While those who gained unfair profit from the fund are held accountable, the bell should also ring
[01:38:17] for public officials who turned a blind eye to this mistake without delay. Shamil
[01:38:21] Tayyar says that the accounts of
[01:38:24] 141 individuals and 73 companies have been blocked
[01:38:28] and that this list consists of those who obtained
[01:38:31] more than 100 million liras of unfair profit.
[01:38:35] I don't know, we should ask Şamil Tayyar
[01:38:38] on what basis he did it, you know, he is a very honest
[01:38:42] journalist. He does it. Now forget this,
[01:38:45] the prosecutor's office announced this today,
[01:38:48] it became news today, yes, there is a list, 141 of these are
[01:38:52] citizens, that is, individuals, 73 companies,
[01:38:55] that's it. The investors who were asked
[01:38:58] to return the money to the TMSF fund
[01:39:01] were these. Their assets were naturally frozen,
[01:39:05] and as they paid, they were unfrozen.
[01:39:08] However, today, another list of 85 people
[01:39:12] came from the prosecutor's office, and an order was issued
[01:39:15] to completely stop their stock market transactions,
[01:39:18] that is, any financial transactions, and to inform the prosecutor's office
[01:39:20] if there is any attempt to dispose of assets.
[01:39:24] There is also a list there. Now, of course,
[01:39:27] there are interesting names on that list, but there is nothing surprising.
[01:39:31] These are more or less the names that have been officially mentioned
[01:39:35] in the investigation, which has been revealed to the public
[01:39:38] since the beginning of this investigation, who were detained, arrested,
[01:39:42] or whose statements were taken, or who were banned from traveling abroad.
[01:39:45] So, there are no names that we questioned or discussed there.
[01:39:49] We want those 141 people.
[01:39:52] Who are the highest earners? Who are those who brought the money
[01:39:56] and deposited it to the TMSF? Did they come out of this investigation?
[01:40:00] Who are they? Apart from this, one of the most accurate
[01:40:04] things Shamil Tayyan said is this:
[01:40:06] are we going to set a threshold and count the earnings above it,
[01:40:10] and not count those below it? How will we calculate it?
[01:40:14] That's the problem, you see. A viewer just sent a message.
[01:40:18] He said, "Let's say I earned 1 million liras,
[01:40:21] I invested 500,000 or 800,000. Will the state take this now?
[01:40:25] Will it count it as profit?" So, this is open-ended.
[01:40:28] How can you judge based on what? That's why if you don't open
[01:40:32] an investigation, and in the investigation
[01:40:36] you don't say that these people knew about this fund
[01:40:39] and made money, and collaborated with these people,
[01:40:42] if you don't open such an investigation, then everyone who makes money
[01:40:45] in the stock market will think that their money will be taken back.
[01:40:48] I would think the same thing if I were them, because I look at the law,
[01:40:52] it says "look at your conscience." "If it's too much, bring it,"
[01:40:55] it says, "can there be such a law?"
[01:40:57] For this reason, none of these explanations
[01:41:01] have any validity. The Minister of Justice,
[01:41:04] the prosecutor, or the ministers and officials in charge
[01:41:07] of this matter will come out and hold a press conference
[01:41:11] before the public, and say, "The scope of our investigation
[01:41:14] is this, we have launched an investigation within this framework,
[01:41:18] we have arrested this many people, detained them, taken statements,
[01:41:21] and this many people will be tried without arrest."
[01:41:23] They will explain the content of this law.
[01:41:27] They will say, "We considered those above this amount
[01:41:29] or those involved in these incidents as guilty.
[01:41:32] These fall within the scope of this law." Have you ever heard?
[01:41:36] The biggest corruption in Turkey has exploded,
[01:41:39] and there is no statement from any official institution
[01:41:43] or official person. Only the Minister of Justice appears
[01:41:47] on some televisions and says something. I mean, nothing,
[01:41:50] they don't inform anything. A name leaks from there.
[01:41:54] Someone says, "He took 15 billion, did he deposit this 15 billion?"
[01:41:58] People made news out of this. You leaked it.
[01:42:01] Then we learn that no such money was deposited, that there is no such money.
[01:42:04] He says he deposited 81 billion million liras. Look, the former bureaucrat
[01:42:08] who was said to be linked to Ömer Çelik and who allegedly earned
[01:42:11] 20 billion liras, even ran away.
[01:42:14] Let's be clear about the source of this: it is from within the government
[01:42:18] and the Ministry of Justice. These are the sources.
[01:42:22] There is no official statement from these circles.
[01:42:26] This has been going on for a week. Then we learn that he only
[01:42:29] deposited 81 million liras, and he is not a fugitive,
[01:42:33] he is not under investigation. So, why are these journalists arrested?
[01:42:37] Of course, if it's not something that exists, it's not there for you.
[01:42:40] This is a crime for journalists. Of course, it starts from a publicly available photo.
[01:42:43] So, I said this because people are waiting, hundreds of thousands
[01:42:46] of people are waiting, hundreds of thousands of people
[01:42:50] are trying to get their money, they are waiting for their principal.
[01:42:53] No one, not even a small investor, or a small merchant,
[01:42:57] expects an exorbitant profit from there. They say, "Give me my principal
[01:43:00] plus inflation," because "I fell into a trap,
[01:43:03] because you say so." I mean, this is not a stock market crisis,
[01:43:07] the stock market has not crashed. You are telling me,
[01:43:10] that is, to the government, that there was a trap here.
[01:43:13] Then give me an explanation. I didn't understand anything
[01:43:16] from any of these explanations. Therefore, what we really need to demand
[01:43:20] is one thing: those conducting the investigation
[01:43:23] will come out and explain everything at a press conference.
[01:43:27] Two, without a parliamentary investigation, it is not possible for such an incident
[01:43:31] to be investigated in Turkey and for society's conscience
[01:43:34] to be at peace. Without a parliamentary investigation,
[01:43:38] if these two paths are not taken, then sorry,
[01:43:41] those pieces of information mean nothing. Yes, they mean nothing.
[01:43:45] Okay, let me take it very briefly. Actually, this
[01:43:48] atmosphere of uncertainty has weakened the political
[01:43:52] reflexes of the AKP, and when they don't explain
[01:43:56] this pattern, they have left it to the citizens
[01:43:59] to imagine how far it can go.
[01:44:02] This means that there is a much bigger pattern
[01:44:05] than we imagined. Yes, we talked about this today. Of course, what Özgür Özel said about this
[01:44:22] is that there are many people, and it could create a huge crisis. They don't even go as far as exposing and blaming one guilty person to close the matter. This means that there is a much bigger pattern than we have imagined. Yes, we talked about this today. Of course, what Özgür Özel said about this is that they opened a repentance
[01:44:25] account, leave your sins here. It turned into a repentance
[01:44:29] fund. So, it became a fund of exploitation, a repentance
[01:44:33] fund. Okay, now, I am in a hurry.
[01:44:36] That's why I asked Ms. Ceren to speak briefly.
[01:44:40] Mr. Cumhur will leave at the end of this hour. There is also a topic I want to get his opinion
[01:44:43] on as a lawyer, it is very, very important. Look, the root
[01:44:47] of all these discussions comes down to law
[01:44:50] and justice. I will ask my colleagues
[01:44:53] to bring a sound to the screens.
[01:44:57] This was one of the most talked about statements of the day.
[01:45:00] Who is making the statement? The President of Ankara Bar Association No. 2,
[01:45:03] Gökhan Ağdemir. He says that
[01:45:07] 70 lawyers who are members of the bar referred to judges
[01:45:10] and prosecutors. He explains this live.
[01:45:14] Shall we bring it to the screens? We refer our friends who want to be prosecutors.
[01:45:17] In our two-year working period,
[01:45:21] we made 70 lawyer friends who are members
[01:45:25] of the bar judges and prosecutors. We were references,
[01:45:28] we met with the ministries, and thankfully,
[01:45:31] the ministry granted us a privilege
[01:45:35] in that sense. We supported our young colleagues.
[01:45:38] We helped them grow in the field
[01:45:42] they wanted. Is this an admission
[01:45:45] for our friends who want to be judges and prosecutors? I will ask
[01:45:48] Mr. Cumhur, but as responsible broadcasters, let's also
[01:45:52] convey this: it was talked about so much
[01:45:55] that he made another statement after the reactions on social media.
[01:45:59] He says that a certain part of his speech was cut and served.
[01:46:03] An untrue perception was created in this way.
[01:46:07] In other words, he means it was taken out of context.
[01:46:22] Not only as a lawyer, but also as someone who served
[01:46:25] as the president of the Muğla Bar Association for 8 years,
[01:46:28] I say that I was astonished.
[01:46:31] Because the government,
[01:46:34] during my time as president of the bar association,
[01:46:37] clearly showed the illegality of the actions taken
[01:46:40] by the existing bar associations with their legal knowledge,
[01:46:44] and the unconstitutionality of these actions.
[01:46:47] And on this matter, at that time, we were 79
[01:46:50] bar associations, some of our provinces did not
[01:46:54] have bar associations, with the statements made simultaneously
[01:46:57] by 79 bar associations, the government had a structure
[01:47:01] that created a public outcry and exposed
[01:47:04] its unlawful practices. Seeing this structure,
[01:47:07] the government invented second bar associations
[01:47:11] for the first time in Turkey since the establishment of the Republic,
[01:47:14] in order to break the stance of the existing bar associations.
[01:47:18] And it said that second bar associations could be established
[01:47:20] by 2500 lawyers coming together.
[01:47:23] "Only and only to create bar associations
[01:47:26] that are allied with them, and to counter the government's
[01:47:29] unlawful actions that the bar associations
[01:47:33] put forward as a legal institution, they tried to create a situation
[01:47:37] where they could gain legal legitimacy
[01:47:41] by saying that these are lawful and are the will
[01:47:44] of the legislature. Therefore, wherever you see
[01:47:46] more than one bar association, and we call them numbered bar associations,
[01:47:50] wherever you see a two-numbered bar association, it means we are talking about two
[01:47:54] bar associations that were established by the government itself,
[01:47:57] by the government's own direction, by directing public lawyers
[01:48:01] and so on, and that could only be established
[01:48:04] in Istanbul and Ankara. Therefore, the government established
[01:48:07] these itself, and their threads are now hanging
[01:48:10] by a thread. The number of members
[01:48:13] has not been able to exceed 2500,
[01:48:16] so it has not been accepted. There should have been at least
[01:48:19] 20-25 in Istanbul, 10-15 in Ankara,
[01:48:22] and in Izmir and various other provinces,
[01:48:26] despite the numbers being quite possible, a bar association that has not been able to multiply,
[01:48:29] a bar association that is allied with the government, a manufactured bar association,
[01:48:33] has established a reference system by making it easier for that bar association
[01:48:36] in judge and prosecutor recruitments in order to maintain its existence.
[01:48:40] This is being revealed. I am not surprised by this,
[01:48:43] because I am one of the bar association presidents who walked
[01:48:47] from Muğla to Ankara, saying that this cannot
[01:48:50] and should not happen in Turkey. So, it is not a big surprise
[01:48:53] for me. But the system
[01:48:57] is organizing all its institutions
[01:49:01] to be allied with it. It is acting by establishing new ones for those
[01:49:04] that it cannot organize. We called these
[01:49:07] "parallel bar associations" at that time,
[01:49:10] because these were bar associations that were created
[01:49:14] by the government to give legal legitimacy
[01:49:17] to what it was doing, against the existing bar associations,
[01:49:21] which are also unique
[01:49:23] in the world. These bar associations
[01:49:27] needed to be strengthened from the government's perspective,
[01:49:30] with the philosophy I mentioned, because if these are strengthened,
[01:49:34] look... they will gain the power to say that Bar Association No. 2
[01:49:38] is saying something different or that what we did is legally correct. Therefore,
[01:49:41] two things are being used. First, our lawyer friends
[01:49:45] who are members here are provided with job opportunities
[01:49:48] through public resources so that they can earn
[01:49:51] more income. I can give details if desired.
[01:49:55] Second, this presentation states that if you become a member
[01:49:58] of Bar Association No. 2, when you take the judge and prosecutor exam,
[01:50:01] when we refer you, the Ministry of Justice
[01:50:05] will also treat you favorably in the judge and prosecutor interview
[01:50:09] based on our reference, and will accept you.
[01:50:12] In other words, we will provide another reflection
[01:50:15] of nepotism. And in this way,
[01:50:18] the efforts to strengthen Bar Association No. 2
[01:50:22] and increase its membership have turned into a bar association
[01:50:26] activity, a lobbying activity, supported by the government.
[01:50:29] This is very dangerous. We said it that day,
[01:50:33] we said it when this law was being made.
[01:50:35] Just as there is only one governorship in a province, and you cannot establish a second
[01:50:39] governorship there, there is no need
[01:50:43] to establish a second bar association,
[01:50:46] neither in terms of meeting a need,
[01:50:49] nor in terms of having such a desire. Moreover,
[01:50:52] now, if a power of attorney
[01:50:56] is given from Bar Association No. 2 to someone,
[01:50:59] it is very clear that they are a pro-government
[01:51:02] lawyer. And because they are pro-government,
[01:51:05] it is being attempted to present being a member
[01:51:08] of Bar Association No. 2 as having a separate privilege
[01:51:11] in this country where the rule of the powerful
[01:51:14] is desired to be established. We,
[01:51:17] nobody should make fun of our intelligence. As someone who was directly
[01:51:21] involved in the struggle against its establishment
[01:51:24] and against its existence, I say that you,
[01:51:28] Mr. Lawyer Gökan Ağdemir,
[01:51:31] are openly admitting that Bar Association No. 2
[01:51:35] is specially protected by the Ministry of Justice.
[01:51:38] This is another proof of how much
[01:51:41] things have been deformed in the administration of this country.
[01:51:45] You are also losing your power to stand against
[01:51:48] things that should be in accordance with the law in your duty
[01:51:51] in a state of law, with the opportunities
[01:51:54] that the government provides you.
[01:51:57] Furthermore, the fact that Bar Association No. 2
[01:52:00] has not multiplied until today stems from the clear acceptance
[01:52:03] among my lawyer colleagues that this situation is unnecessary.
[01:52:06] I would like to finish with one sentence.
[01:52:10] In Turkey, all kinds of rights exist,
[01:52:13] except in very exceptional cases. Among these, there is the right to be protected from defamation,
[01:52:16] among these, there is the right to freedom of thought and dissemination of thought,
[01:52:19] and among these, there is the freedom of the press
[01:52:23] and the right to information. However, when a dual legal system
[01:52:27] is applied in the country, these rights exist
[01:52:30] çalışılıyor, biz eee kimse bizim
[01:52:33] aklımızda alay etmesin, bunun kuruluş anını ve
[01:52:37] olmaması için verilen ülkesel mücadelenin bizzat
[01:52:40] içinde olan birisi olarak ben diyorum ki, siz
[01:52:44] sayın avukat Gökan aademir,
[01:52:47] siz açık açık 2i nolu baroların Adalet
[01:52:50] Bakanlığı tarafından özel. himaye altına
[01:52:53] alındığının ikrarını
[01:52:56] yapıyorsunuz. Bu, bu, bu
[01:52:59] ülkenin yönetiminde nerelere kadar nelerin
[01:53:03] deforme edildiğinin ayrı bir
[01:53:06] kanıtı, siz iktidarın
[01:53:10] bu size sağladığı olanaklarla hukuk
[01:53:14] devletinde yaptığınız görevde
[01:53:17] hukuka uygun olması gereken şeylerin
[01:53:20] karşısında durabilecek. "gücünüzü de
[01:53:23] kaybediyorsunuz, kaldı ki bugüne kadar iki
[01:53:27] nolu baroların çoğalmaması avukat meslektaşlarım
[01:53:30] arasında bu durumun yersizliğinin
[01:53:34] artık net olarak kabul görmesinden
[01:53:37] kaynaklanıyor. bir cümleyle bitirmek
[01:53:41] isterim, Türkiye'de her
[01:53:44] türlü hak, çok istisnai haller dışında
[01:53:48] var, bunların içinde lekelenme hakkı da."
[01:53:52] var, bunların içinde düşünce ve düşünceyi yayma hakkı da var, yine
[01:53:56] bunların içinde basın özgürlüğü ve haber
[01:54:00] alma hakkı da var,
[01:54:03] fakat ülkede ikili bir hukuk
[01:54:05] uygulanınca bu haklar
[01:54:08] when they are in favor of the government,
[01:54:12] but when they are against the government, they are neglected and considered worthless.
[01:54:15] The right to be protected from defamation exists for AKP members, but not for anyone else.
[01:54:19] The right to freedom of thought and dissemination of thought
[01:54:23] exists for AKP members, but not for anyone else.
[01:54:26] Freedom of the press and the right to information exist
[01:54:29] if you are an AKP member and write things that benefit
[01:54:33] the AKP, they exist to the fullest.
[01:54:37] But if you expose a mistake of the government or the AKP,
[01:54:40] even if your news or photograph is true,
[01:54:43] you don't have these rights, you have jail.
[01:54:47] This is called dual law. Our constitution says
[01:54:49] everyone is equal before the law. With what right
[01:54:52] do you apply a dual legal system? "The harm caused by
[01:54:55] this presidential system of government, this bizarre
[01:54:59] form of governance, is being experienced more deeply
[01:55:03] by our country every passing day,
[01:55:06] and continues to be experienced. This is a situation that can be experienced
[01:55:09] regardless of these people, if your system is like this.
[01:55:12] But under the current administrators,
[01:55:16] we see its most striking examples, and we will continue
[01:55:19] to see them. We must get rid
[01:55:23] of this order as soon as possible, both systemically
[01:55:26] and from these administrators with this mindset.
[01:55:29] Therefore, we want the ballot box to come before us
[01:55:32] as soon as possible. Because when the ballot box comes,
[01:55:36] people do not have the chance to fight every incident individually,
[01:55:40] and they don't have that power. But when the ballot box comes,
[01:55:43] they have the power to hold them accountable. Therefore, the ballot box that comes as soon as possible
[01:55:46] will be Turkey's hope and the beginning of brighter tomorrows,
[01:55:50] I say. Well, Mr. Uzun,
[01:55:53] as a politician, a lawyer, and someone who served as a bar association
[01:55:57] president in the previous period, and also as someone who says he fought
[01:56:00] against this, he said he was not surprised, but when we heard it, we felt the need
[01:56:04] to watch it again, wondering if we heard correctly.
[01:56:07] Murat Emir says, "While we were talking about guaranteed transit bridges
[01:56:10] and guaranteed flight airports, now we have
[01:56:14] Bar Association No. 2 with guaranteed judgeship."
[01:56:18] They proudly explain cronyism on screen.
[01:56:21] I have a minute left, I'm going to commercial,
[01:56:25] but is it a proud explanation, an admission,
[01:56:28] or a reflection of nepotism? What does Yaşar Aydın say?
[01:56:31] Both, but let me say this very briefly, governments
[01:56:35] stand with the support of citizens. If there is no support from citizens,
[01:56:38] if there is no consent, they can only stand
[01:56:41] with bribery and buying loyalty. Today, those who formed the fund,
[01:56:45] and the İzmir Metropolitan Municipality, this is a relationship
[01:56:48] established with the government only by giving bribes.
[01:56:51] They give bribes to become judges and prosecutors,
[01:56:54] they go to Bar Association No. 2, they buy this bribe,
[01:56:58] then see the and prosecutors, and then
[01:57:01] they pay their debts to the government. This is the system. Whether it's with the fund
[01:57:05] or one municipality passing to another municipality,
[01:57:08] this matter is one and the same. The government has now found
[01:57:11] this way of governing, because it cannot produce consent,
[01:57:15] it can only survive with bribery, blackmail,
[01:57:19] and threats. This is an indicator of this,
[01:57:22] and it will continue like this. Because as long as it cannot produce
[01:57:25] consent, it will always resort to illegal
[01:57:28] methods. This is a very clear example
[01:57:32] and actually a method that we all anticipated,
[01:57:36] because such lawlessness can only occur
[01:57:39] through those who become judges and prosecutors in this way.
[01:57:42] Ms. Ceren, would you like to add a few sentences here
[01:57:46] on this matter? Of course,
[01:57:49] what we said earlier about the fund
[01:57:52] is related to the current system we are in.
[01:57:55] That is, the issue is not the fund.
[01:57:59] If it is, then the ones who should be blamed
[01:58:02] are not individuals, but the system itself.
[01:58:06] The issue of judges,
[01:58:09] prosecutors, and lawyers, who should be responsible
[01:58:12] for our sense of justice and our legal rights,
[01:58:14] being appointed by this method actually comes down to
[01:58:17] the same thing. That is, if you change
[01:58:21] the system from within, if you establish
[01:58:25] your hegemonic structure within itself,
[01:58:28] not just your cultural hegemony,
[01:58:30] then it is actually not possible to talk about democracy,
[01:58:34] or the republic, or fundamental rights and freedoms.
[01:58:37] As Yaşar Bey also said, if you appoint
[01:58:40] judges and prosecutors who accept to become
[01:58:44] judges and prosecutors by this method, who not only crave this,
[01:58:47] but also act as an outcome of this system,
[01:58:50] then the outcomes of that system will do what is necessary
[01:58:54] when the time comes. All of these
[01:58:57] are a system problem. The issue is actually
[01:59:00] about the regime, no matter what we talk about.
[01:59:03] So, the issue
[01:59:07] comes down to a system problem, says Mr. Mumay.
[01:59:10] At the end of this segment, we said that Mr. Cumhur Uzun,
[01:59:13] Member of Parliament for Muğla from the New Party, would be leaving us.
[01:59:17] I want to thank Mr. Uzun. Thank you for your contribution,
[01:59:20] Mr. Uzun. I thank you.
[01:59:24] I wish good broadcasts to my friends who continue.
[01:59:27] I also thank our viewers for watching us.
[01:59:31] I greet them with respect from Muğla again.
[01:59:34] We thank you. We also conveyed our love to Muğla.
[01:59:37] Let's take a break, then we'll be back.
[01:59:41] Halk TV is again at the top
[01:59:42] among news channels,
[02:00:22] again number one by a wide margin in September.
[02:00:25] Halk TV was number one throughout September
[02:00:28] in the total audience all-day category.
[02:00:31] In the ABC group, it was number one for 30
[02:00:35] out of 30 days, and in the AB category,
[02:00:38] it was number one for 30 out of 30 days.
[02:00:42] Halk TV, you are not alone. not alone.
[02:00:44] değilsiniz.