JORDANTV — The Strangers Pledge
20260920 210500 UTC
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[00:00:00] to the viewers of Jordanian translating the language
[00:00:02] them, the issue of the Television and our Arab viewers
[00:00:05] through
[00:00:07] in Palestinian Television and Egyptian Television
[00:00:10] and Iraqi Television. I think that
[00:00:13] this program has gained popularity and
[00:00:17] a triangle. attention among Arab audiences because it is certainly
[00:00:20] an idea to bridge
[00:00:24] the
[00:00:27] mere fact that Arab relations between Arab viewers. Today
[00:00:29] we are talking about
[00:00:32] So I give them documenting
[00:00:32] he talk about in the second part?
[00:00:33] and cinema director, history, and we in Jordan this
[00:00:36] look at the camera. year have worked hard on the issue of
[00:00:40] and you are an expert in today? For example, the Jordanian narrative. This means documenting history so that our youth and new
[00:00:44] What worries me is that we are not living in generations can read and learn more about
[00:00:49] So he keeps you in an Iraqi their history, the history
[00:00:51] including destruction from within, a roadmap, let's of our personalities, the history
[00:00:52] Arab generations. and I am honored by your of our land, our country. Can
[00:00:56] he forgot to tell us and to say in This is on the Arab cinema and drama document history, or
[00:00:57] about me that I am we talk about a very is documenting history only confined to historians?
[00:01:01] Madam, I believe
[00:01:02] its political that one of the most important means of documenting history is
[00:01:06] Jordan was able to preserve drama and cinema,
[00:01:08] easily. We must answer this in
[00:01:08] sure that the coming day will bring because the door for Palestinian academic documentation and
[00:01:14] this type of Egypt will be raised on archival documentation are usually we bring silent information, information that is concerned
[00:01:17] with dates, numbers, and historical events
[00:01:20] directly.
[00:01:22] that from? From However, drama, through cinematic drama
[00:01:26] There are many or television drama or other types of drama,
[00:01:28] we can reach the largest segment of
[00:01:32] the audience by
[00:01:34] meaning they lost working Joseph Goebbels in on the collective
[00:01:37] Many consciousness
[00:01:39] is prominently present of society and to bring history out of its
[00:01:42] silent, rigid molds
[00:01:46] to inject life into it. Therefore, I believe
[00:01:49] And dreams made of that drama is an effective and successful
[00:01:53] means of documenting history. I also believe that
[00:01:56] we in Jordan have important experiences in this field. 100%.
[00:02:00] We have documented many of the events that Jordan
[00:02:03] went through in modern history
[00:02:06] relied on humanization through Jordanian drama.
[00:02:06] to a certain extent. An example of this is the series "Jerusalem
[00:02:10] Gate," which recorded the heroics
[00:02:14] sometimes say, of extreme of the Jordanian Army
[00:02:16] message through what Palestinian and the solidarity between the Jordanian
[00:02:24] and do many things in the life of the Palestinian there are specialists, and Palestinian people during the years 1946 and 1948, and the battles of Bab Al-Wad. I believe that, as we said, there are other attempts
[00:02:28] by Jordanian drama, such as the series
[00:02:31] "Sultani," which dealt with the development
[00:02:34] of Jordanian society in the last half century,
[00:02:38] through the novels of Ghaleb Halasa, "Sultani" and "Bedouin,
[00:02:43] And a determination that Farmers, and Blacksmiths," and many other experiences. The series "Al-Saqaya," the series
[00:02:47] "Umm Al-Kuroom," many series
[00:02:51] about his daily the Jordanian environment must talk about the have documented modern Jordanian history. However, I say that Jordanian history is vast
[00:02:54] and a field for research, specifically. And we still have a long
[00:02:59] take you back a little in way to go to publish many and great details
[00:03:01] in Jordanian history, whether modern or ancient. We,
[00:03:05] Jordanians,
[00:03:06] It was working on inherited the Ammonites,
[00:03:08] the ground in the drama of the Edomites,
[00:03:10] and the Nabataeans, and the Moabites.
[00:03:12] They tried to pressure Therefore, we have a deep-rooted history.
[00:03:18] wars in the press, and wars on
[00:03:18] They would go to just wars on region began from We were the first people
[00:03:19] to the youth segment to make bread 4500 BC. We were the first
[00:03:24] No path it caused a big organized human gathering, as evidenced by the discoveries
[00:03:26] of Ain Ghazal and the statues found in Ain Ghazal. Therefore,
[00:03:30] piece of news. This we are the heirs of the kings of this land, kings who
[00:03:34] ruled it and no one else. Therefore, we are an extension
[00:03:39] Preserves the narrative and preserves of the Great Arab Revolt and the heroics of Sharif Hussein with his Arab
[00:03:42] Revolt, and an extension to King Abdullah, King Talal,
[00:03:47] Through cinema and theater, this and King Hussein the Builder, and ending with His Majesty
[00:03:49] King Abdullah. Therefore, we
[00:03:53] have a long way to go to document Jordanian
[00:03:57] history through drama and cinema about a homeland that is a year old.
[00:04:05] through what is presented in I just want to comment on the fact that we in Jordan are among
[00:04:07] the first to work on historical and Bedouin
[00:04:12] quick highlights, but God willing, in works, and we have very creative actors,
[00:04:15] very creative,
[00:04:17] and good morning to important names, and some of
[00:04:20] them have done dramatic television
[00:04:23] works in beloved
[00:04:26] Security Expert. And I am honored on Egypt. From the historical aspect, historical works
[00:04:30] usually don't get a lot
[00:04:35] talk from of, let's say, back and forth between historians
[00:04:38] or history keepers on social media.
[00:04:43] the event that Why? Because some of the works that are shown
[00:04:45] generally sometimes have an error in narrating
[00:04:48] history, or even the
[00:04:52] narration is suitable dramatically or cinematically.
[00:04:56] They change the composition a little bit to suit them
[00:05:00] better, and thus they change
[00:05:03] history. Is it permissible for drama to
[00:05:06] to attend the show. change history,
[00:05:08] Let's start before we go on or is it permissible for the historian
[00:05:10] to modify history or historical
[00:05:14] stories that are narrated dramatically or cinematically? Madam,
[00:05:18] it is not the role of drama to document history
[00:05:21] in detail, in a precise
[00:05:25] way. As I said in the introduction
[00:05:28] to my speech, the function of drama is to
[00:05:32] enter human and emotional feelings and flirt with
[00:05:35] emotions, and thus create a parallel history
[00:05:38] to the original event. Therefore,
[00:05:41] this receives this interaction and sympathy
[00:05:44] from the audience. The danger of drama, as you said,
[00:05:48] is that there may be an omission
[00:05:52] of history through drama or a distortion of the image
[00:05:55] of a certain individual in dramatic history for the sake of a
[00:05:58] certain political statement. And because the danger
[00:06:02] of drama is that it enters homes,
[00:06:05] it reaches people, it reaches ordinary
[00:06:08] people who, by human nature,
[00:06:12] believe what they see. Therefore, the game of drama,
[00:06:16] especially international cinema, to create
[00:06:19] a stereotypical image of certain peoples,
[00:06:22] and therefore the recipient believes
[00:06:26] what he sees, or human nature believes what it sees. Therefore,
[00:06:29] this detail has been exploited by many drama and cinema producers
[00:06:33] to market a certain ideology
[00:06:36] or to focus on
[00:06:39] certain characters or distort them or
[00:06:42] create some fake heroes in one way
[00:06:45] or another. However, I believe that
[00:06:48] the recipient's
[00:06:52] task is to search for information, especially
[00:06:55] historical information, to find the truth.
[00:06:59] Many dramatic television works have promoted
[00:07:02] some rumors or conflicting information. We are not just talking
[00:07:05] about the history of countries; we are talking about the history of individuals.
[00:07:09] There is information that was mentioned long ago,
[00:07:12] mentioned incorrectly, or to promote a certain idea.
[00:07:16] And thus, it creates a kind of
[00:07:19] conflicting information or builds information
[00:07:23] based on a rumor. And unfortunately,
[00:07:26] you know, when I watch a drama and a complete
[00:07:29] work, this rumor is passed down
[00:07:33] from generation to generation, it becomes established,
[00:07:36] is, when I go back to the archive, I find
[00:07:40] old information or information that corrects
[00:07:43] some false news or conflicting information
[00:07:46] that drama spreads. Madam, you said something important
[00:07:49] related to the
[00:07:52] issue of another narrative for true history. What
[00:07:55] if we take an example? Now we have
[00:07:58] major events happening in the region
[00:08:02] and on the global stage. If you look at the different
[00:08:05] viewpoints, you will find two different
[00:08:08] narratives. Therefore, the issue of documentation
[00:08:11] requires great efforts. I believe that
[00:08:15] the efforts of official institutions are what
[00:08:18] should seek to document information,
[00:08:21] especially in the presence of digital
[00:08:25] abundance, the digital abundance and the information
[00:08:28] that pours in, especially
[00:08:32] who always like to access information easily through
[00:08:35] reels or short posts. This
[00:08:38] issue is very dangerous, and therefore
[00:08:41] we must enter through this door,
[00:08:44] by narrating our Jordanian narrative and our story
[00:08:48] and the story of the Arab world, away from
[00:08:51] distortion and away from historical fallacies that many
[00:08:54] people have fallen into. Therefore, the issue
[00:08:58] of accessing digital information and making it easy to search
[00:09:02] for, because not everyone can go to a written
[00:09:05] reference, a reference or written volumes
[00:09:08] to search for the truth, especially in this age of speed
[00:09:11] and the presence of artificial intelligence, which
[00:09:14] many may manipulate to spread false
[00:09:17] information. Therefore, I believe that there
[00:09:20] must be a follow-up
[00:09:23] to events, meaning that we document these events
[00:09:27] constantly, because our story... If I tell you a story
[00:09:30] about my grandfather, I might tell it today
[00:09:34] in one way, and a year later, I might forget
[00:09:37] the details and tell it differently. Therefore, recording
[00:09:40] and documenting it, whether
[00:09:42] audibly, visually, or in writing, or through a document,
[00:09:46] and saving it digitally as well, to make
[00:09:49] it easier for ordinary people to access
[00:09:53] information. Today, the new generation,
[00:09:56] you mentioned two important pieces of information, but
[00:10:00] I want to ask you an additional question about them: the information
[00:10:04] you mentioned that the archive should be documented digitally so
[00:10:08] that young people have easy access to it,
[00:10:11] they can access
[00:10:14] the archive and read it and view different
[00:10:17] information. And from another perspective, if we talk
[00:10:21] about the youth, what work do you recommend
[00:10:25] that truly narrates history correctly
[00:10:28] 100%? A story of a family, a story
[00:10:31] of a tribe, a story of a person who built
[00:10:34] something? Which of the works do you truly recommend
[00:10:38] our youth to follow strongly? I talked a lot about
[00:10:42] the importance of drama in enhancing belonging
[00:10:46] among citizens.
[00:10:49] Therefore, they should have confidence in themselves,
[00:10:52] their homeland, and their history. I believe that
[00:10:56] drama is an effective tool in this direction.
[00:10:59] I may have given examples related to narrating
[00:11:03] our Jordanian history, which many
[00:11:05] have tried to distort, especially in our modern
[00:11:09] history and what is related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
[00:11:13] Jordan managed to preserve, during its long
[00:11:16] wars, if we count, more than 70 battles
[00:11:20] fought by the Jordanian Army in our struggle
[00:11:24] with Israel over the Palestinian issue.
[00:11:26] Therefore, our Jordanian history, in short,
[00:11:31] the remaining part of Palestine, which is the West Bank,
[00:11:34] which we are negotiating over now.
[00:11:37] Therefore, this is what the Jordanian Army did.
[00:11:40] Jordanian drama documented it through
[00:11:43] the series "Jerusalem Gate," which are the battles
[00:11:46] of Bab Al-Wad that I mentioned in the introduction to my speech.
[00:11:51] works, such as the series "Sultani," which documents
[00:11:55] the social transformations of Jordanian society during
[00:11:59] the mid-last century.
[00:12:02] works, even Bedouin works, because we are painted
[00:12:05] with many Bedouin works, are based
[00:12:09] on true stories, and many writers relied
[00:12:12] on the stories of Roks bin Zayed Al-Azizi from
[00:12:15] his encyclopedia "Heritage Teacher" to produce many
[00:12:19] Jordanian series that tell the story
[00:12:22] of Jordan, such as "Nimr bin Adwan" and other series
[00:12:26] that depicted the honorable history of Jordan in one
[00:12:29] way or another. Therefore, of course, I also believe that
[00:12:33] the task of young people, specifically,
[00:12:36] if we talk, we are talking about the detail of the
[00:12:40] ordinary recipient, but
[00:12:43] specialists in drama, cinema, television,
[00:12:46] and theater. Their task is to uncover the true
[00:12:50] history and the Jordanian narrative that we mentioned
[00:12:53] historically.
[00:13:03] They search for topics, topics
[00:13:07] through modern methods to convey our topics
[00:13:10] and stories to their generation. Therefore,
[00:13:15] be present in the dramatic, cinematic, and television
[00:13:19] and theatrical scene. What role do
[00:13:22] you dream of playing in presenting
[00:13:25] history and the narrative? I told
[00:13:28] you, our modern Jordanian history is still oppressed.
[00:13:32] Therefore, the story of Jordanians
[00:13:35] and their struggle against the Zionist
[00:13:38] presence in the Arab
[00:13:41] the very beginning. And if we refer
[00:13:44] to the settlements that tried, in one way or another,
[00:13:48] to be established at the end of the 19th century
[00:13:51] on Jordanian land, Jordanians were able to dismantle
[00:13:55] these settlements overnight through the meetings
[00:13:59] of the village of Sakib, which is well-known.
[00:14:02] However, there is a figure in modern Jordanian
[00:14:06] history, Kayed Al-Mufleh Al-Obeidat.
[00:14:10] He gathered the Arabs and was martyred.
[00:14:13] He is considered the first martyr for the Palestinian
[00:14:16] cause on Palestinian land. Kayed Al-Mufleh
[00:14:19] Al-Obeidat held the conference in his village
[00:14:22] and was able to gather Jordanians,
[00:14:25] Jordanian tribes, and Arab mujahideen
[00:14:29] before there was
[00:14:32] a declaration of a state. Therefore,
[00:14:36] I believe that Kayed Al-Mufleh Al-Obeidat is one of the provocative
[00:14:40] figures that I hope will see the light and
[00:14:43] have a dramatic Jordanian epic
[00:14:46] as much as possible
[00:14:49] and as much as it deserves. Thank you for
[00:14:53] joining us, director and actor Abdul Karim Al-Jarrah.
[00:14:57] Thank you very much. Our discussion on this topic
[00:15:00] is lengthy, especially since we are discussing
[00:15:04] it in an Arab program that is a home for everyone.
[00:15:07] So, I believe that what we are suffering
[00:15:11] from and discussing is the same goal and message
[00:15:14] of every Arab country participating with us in Beit Lil Kul.
[00:15:18] So, thank you very much and
[00:15:30] have a happy day. Have a happy day.
[00:15:33] Oh, going to Aqaba, going to
[00:15:37] Aqaba brings back the soul. It has the
[00:15:41] sea, it has nightlife, it has adventures,
[00:15:44] and the sweetest memories. It has restaurants and
[00:15:48] markets and the largest water park, and its prices
[00:15:51] suit all budgets. Every corner tells
[00:15:54] you stories. Go to Aqaba, going to
[00:16:18] Aqaba brings back the soul. Director George Ibrahim,
[00:16:21] director of the Qasaba Theater and Cinematheque, is with us
[00:16:25] in the studio. Welcome,
[00:16:27] presence with us at Beit Lil Kul this
[00:16:30] week. And when
[00:16:34] difficult situation for the Palestinian cause,
[00:16:37] for Palestinian citizens in all
[00:16:40] details, in the genocidal crimes, in the economic
[00:16:44] issue, all these issues are sensitive, but
[00:16:47] we are talking about an Arab theater,
[00:16:49] about cinema,
[00:16:52] about different visions from writers and artists
[00:16:56] regarding this issue. How
[00:16:59] is the treatment today? To what extent do you
[00:17:03] think the Palestinian issue is also present
[00:17:06] among our Arab brothers in these different
[00:17:09] issues for Palestinians? And it is important.
[00:17:12] I believe that the Palestinian issue
[00:17:16] among our Arab brothers.
[00:17:20] In the past, the Palestinian issue
[00:17:23] was the
[00:17:26] central issue. It was a national
[00:17:29] and humanitarian liberation issue.
[00:17:33] It began in stages. The first stage
[00:17:36] at that time was
[00:17:40] the discourse of sympathy, the discourse of
[00:17:43] enthusiasm at that time. Then gradually
[00:17:46] it became the culture of resistance,
[00:17:50] the cinema of resistance, the drama of resistance.
[00:17:53] And after that, they started to delve into the details of
[00:17:59] human. The Palestinian human became a hero
[00:18:02] in the news. They started to cover him in more
[00:18:06] depth. For example, in 1948,
[00:18:09] as far as I remember, there
[00:18:11] were films that talked
[00:18:15] about the Palestinian issue. What
[00:18:18] can I say? For example, a film like "A Girl from
[00:18:22] Palestine" by Zulfiqar, in 1948.
[00:18:25] Or, for example,
[00:18:27] a film
[00:18:31] like "Land of Heroes" also by Niazi Mustafa.
[00:18:34] A film like "Land of Peace" also by
[00:18:37] Kamal El Sheikh. All these films talked about
[00:18:40] the Palestinian issue with excessive
[00:18:43] sympathy and enthusiasm. They did
[00:18:47] not delve into the depth of things.
[00:18:50] Then when the
[00:18:53] 1967 setback
[00:18:57] happened,
[00:19:01] earthquake in the Arab world. Films
[00:19:03] and dramatic works no longer just talked
[00:19:07] about Palestine. They started to ask legitimate
[00:19:11] questions: Why did we lose? What was
[00:19:14] the reason? What did we do? These
[00:19:17] questions produced
[00:19:20] in the Arab world
[00:19:23] a desire to search for the truth
[00:19:26] more, not sympathy.
[00:19:29] The search for the truth became more
[00:19:32] prominent. The camera, for example, at that
[00:19:36] time went to the refugee camps,
[00:19:40] to the fedayeen, recording military
[00:19:43] activities. It went to the refugees,
[00:19:47] it started to talk to people, to get
[00:19:50] testimonies. And this
[00:19:53] specifically opened the door for the new
[00:19:57] generation to talk about the Palestinian issue.
[00:20:00] It was an emotional issue for them, but
[00:20:04] today it has become a tangible issue that
[00:20:07] needs questions.
[00:20:10] Then you have the Israeli. Arab drama
[00:20:13] and Arab cinema produced
[00:20:16] a different story from
[00:20:20] the Israeli narrative. To what extent
[00:20:23] did
[00:20:25] Arab productions succeed in what they presented
[00:20:29] to refute the Israeli narrative? To what extent
[00:20:33] did they have a receptive audience compared to the
[00:20:36] Israeli narrative that is based on distorting
[00:20:39] facts, fabricating history, presenting
[00:20:43] what serves the Israeli political agenda based
[00:20:47] on denying the other, expelling them, killing
[00:20:52] refugee camps, all the way to this. Even
[00:20:55] in the last period, we see that it is
[00:20:59] necessary to have an Arab-Palestinian narrative,
[00:21:01] primarily, and an Arab narrative present in
[00:21:05] the face of this Israeli narrative through
[00:21:09] theater and cinema. I
[00:21:12] believe that the
[00:21:17] drama and Arab cinema placed the Palestinian
[00:21:21] issue in the popular Arab consciousness was
[00:21:24] in itself a new development, because the
[00:21:27] modern generations did not know much about
[00:21:31] the Palestinian issue. So these works
[00:21:34] highlighted and charted
[00:21:38] say, for the
[00:21:43] level, and on the international level,
[00:21:47] what Arab culture or Arab drama
[00:21:51] and Arab cinema did was to open
[00:21:55] filmmakers to participate in Arab festivals
[00:21:58] with their artistic works. And in that
[00:22:01] period, they produced Palestinian filmmakers
[00:22:05] such as Elia Suleiman, Michel Khleifi,
[00:22:08] Hany Abu-Assad, Mai Masri. These
[00:22:12] are the ones who
[00:22:14] produced our late dear friend Mohamed Bakri.
[00:22:18] Mohamed Bakri's film "Jenin, Jenin"
[00:22:21] shook the world at that time, and
[00:22:25] Israel fought him in every way possible.
[00:22:28] The important thing is that it opened the
[00:22:32] door for the Palestinian artist, the Palestinian
[00:22:35] director, the Palestinian writer to participate
[00:22:38] in these festivals, and thus, when he
[00:22:42] participates in international festivals, people abroad
[00:22:45] started to want to know about Palestine
[00:22:49] and the Palestinian cause and the story of the Palestinian
[00:22:53] people. This story
[00:22:56] Was this approach the ideal
[00:23:00] and best way to convey the
[00:23:06] and Arab productions offer, in your
[00:23:10] opinion? To what extent did it
[00:23:13] achieve the desired success? This issue
[00:23:16] is very complex,
[00:23:23] So, in other
[00:23:26] words, the field was not open
[00:23:30] for us to do what we wanted regardless
[00:23:33] of some Arab ideas or some global
[00:23:37] ideas or some practices related to Israel,
[00:23:41] related to the Zionist lobby in the world.
[00:23:45] I remember when we tried to
[00:23:49] produce our theatrical work in Europe, for
[00:23:53] example, or in America. It's a good experience.
[00:23:57] Jewish communities tried to fight us in
[00:23:59] every way.
[00:24:02] theaters not to invite us.
[00:24:08] our advertisements and put red
[00:24:11] crosses, distribute leaflets in front
[00:24:14] of the theater, at the theater door, saying
[00:24:17] that these people blow up buses, these
[00:24:21] people kill children, and so on. They
[00:24:23] tried to deter the audience from watching
[00:24:26] our plays. And I personally witnessed
[00:24:29] this when we were in England,
[00:24:33] when we were in France, when we were
[00:24:36] in Belgium. Jewish communities would threaten
[00:24:39] their leaders and theater managers, saying that
[00:24:43] these people are not allowed to come. To
[00:24:45] the extent that when we went to America, for example, there
[00:24:50] was a special team to guard us
[00:24:54] with guard dogs, fearing any attacks,
[00:24:57] because of how much Israel. But this
[00:25:01] is evidence that your presence itself
[00:25:04] and what you offer in different shows
[00:25:08] and productions have an impact, and there
[00:25:11] are receptive ears. So there is
[00:25:13] a fear that this
[00:25:16] narrative will sweep away and change prevailing
[00:25:20] concepts. Otherwise, they wouldn't have cared. I'll
[00:25:24] tell you, for example, there were incidents in
[00:25:27] a country called Singapore. Once we went there
[00:25:31] to perform the play "The Wall," which
[00:25:34] was about the apartheid wall. I was
[00:25:38] surprised. I was preparing for the show, and
[00:25:41] the person in charge of the show came,
[00:25:45] and she was trembling. I asked her what
[00:25:47] was wrong. She said the Israeli ambassador
[00:25:51] and his wife were coming to buy tickets
[00:25:56] What should I do? I told her to let
[00:26:00] them in. So imagine
[00:26:04] that because they care so much
[00:26:07] about the political discourse or the Palestinian
[00:26:10] cultural discourse, they follow it everywhere.
[00:26:14] On the political level too,
[00:26:16] and at the end of the show, there
[00:26:20] would be a discussion with the audience,
[00:26:24] and the Israeli ambassador would try
[00:26:27] to sabotage us with his different
[00:26:30] narratives about Palestinian life.
[00:26:33] As a theater
[00:26:36] what kind of work do you feel
[00:26:41] I have a play, and even though it
[00:26:45] was written by
[00:26:49] young man, I appreciate
[00:26:53] him. He wrote it
[00:26:56] about the war in Iraq.
[00:26:58] So when I
[00:27:01] read the play, I found that war,
[00:27:04] whether in Iraq or in Palestine
[00:27:08] or anywhere else, is war. So,
[00:27:11] when you take a play like
[00:27:14] this, that talks about a young
[00:27:18] man and a young woman who
[00:27:22] got married, and on their wedding
[00:27:25] night, the bombing happened, and their
[00:27:28] bedroom was bombed, and the play started
[00:27:31] from there. So, what could they
[00:27:34] talk about? What could they talk
[00:27:38] about? For example, in the play, they talk about
[00:27:42] the future, about the children they
[00:27:45] will have. What will happen to the children? Will
[00:27:49] this son die this way or
[00:27:52] that way? What will happen to
[00:27:55] this daughter? Will she become this
[00:27:59] or that? The whole play talks
[00:28:03] about the bombing that happened on
[00:28:06] the wedding night. And this is painful.
[00:28:10] And what is more painful is
[00:28:14] that Al-Zaidi, the author
[00:28:18] of the play, talks about this
[00:28:21] with great sarcasm. It's a play
[00:28:25] that provokes laughter because it is so
[00:28:29] shocking. So, I believe that
[00:28:33] plays of this kind
[00:28:36] have a greater impact on the
[00:28:39] audience than any political
[00:28:42] play. We are not allowed to
[00:28:45] talk politics today. Today, we must
[00:28:49] Palestinian human,
[00:28:53] life, about the simple things
[00:28:57] he has lost Let me
[00:29:02] the Second World War. The films,
[00:29:05] stories, and plays that were written about the war were made ten years
[00:29:09] after the war, by which time people
[00:29:11] had come to terms with what happened. We are unable to comprehend what
[00:29:15] is happening because things are happening daily.
[00:29:18] In our daily lives, there are events. Just now, you
[00:29:22] and I were outside, and we mentioned that there was a martyr in Al-Bireh. I told you
[00:29:26] that this is next to my house. So, how am I supposed to deal with these things? It's
[00:29:30] just a fleeting
[00:29:33] man who was martyred today in Al-Bireh, doesn't he
[00:29:36] have a family? Isn't it possible that he was married, and has a wife
[00:29:39] and children, and a father and mother? Our stories
[00:29:43] are many and deserve to be paused for with more
[00:29:46] detail.
[00:29:49] situation is very difficult. Uh-huh. So that
[00:29:53] our message reaches the world more, in one way or another. And there are those who
[00:29:57] strongly support and advocate for the Palestinian right, and are concerned with
[00:30:01] following these daily details
[00:30:04] of Palestinian life
[00:30:07] theater, as well as cinematic works. I want to thank you, Professor George
[00:30:11] Ibrahim, for participating with us in such
[00:30:15] the coming days, more opportunities will be available for us to
[00:30:18] talk about this important and vital topic within more
[00:30:21] specialized programs. Director George Ibrahim, director of Al-Kasaba Theater and Cinematheque,
[00:30:25] thank you for being with us in Beit Al-Kol. You're welcome. But what
[00:30:28] I said does not mean that we will not do it. We will definitely do it.
[00:30:32] Thank you very much. Welcome. And back, dear viewers, to our studios in the Egyptian
[00:30:36] capital, Cairo, and the follow-up to Beit Al-Kol.
[00:31:01] Action. Ready?
[00:31:05] Let's go. That's it. Okay.
[00:31:10] air. Here everything
[00:31:12] starts.
[00:31:16] An idea turning into a voice, and a voice that will reach
[00:31:20] every
[00:31:20] home.
[00:31:24] Voices with stories. Our energy is from you, and our story
[00:31:28] is for you.
[00:31:31] From the heart of the street to the closest details
[00:31:34] of your life.
[00:31:37] 96 is not just a number. This is our voice
[00:31:41] with which we chant the name of Jordan every day.
[00:33:21] In fact, shaping the awareness of the viewer or
[00:33:24] receiver is a matter, as we
[00:33:29] difficulty. But shaping awareness with ideas.
[00:33:32] In fact, today's episode is a very important episode. Why?
[00:33:36] We all love cinema and watch many different works,
[00:33:40] and cinema is called soft power because it has power
[00:33:44] but also softness, because it has the frame,
[00:33:47] it has sound, it has image, it has music, it has
[00:33:50] a story, it has us telling stories. So when we come
[00:33:54] to talk about history and talk about military
[00:33:57] matters, what does military mean? It means matters that concern
[00:34:00] the homeland, or sometimes, and more importantly,
[00:34:03] concern national security. That's why we thought at Beit El-Kol,
[00:34:07] "Oh, we need a national security expert,
[00:34:11] a military one, to talk to me." And I also need a significant
[00:34:14] critic. Tell me what to do. Should I let the enemy's cinema say whatever
[00:34:18] it wants? If I respond, where do I respond? Do I respond in the same place,
[00:34:21] or do I respond locally in my country and just talk to myself? Or do I respond
[00:34:25] internationally? What should I do? How do I act? Wars now are not
[00:34:29] the ground. They are wars in the media,
[00:34:33] platforms, even TikTok and your social media. I also
[00:34:36] need to respond there and respond with many things. That's why at Beit El-Kol,
[00:34:40] I ask you all to share the viewing
[00:34:43] today. Let's watch, talk, and think together
[00:34:47] with a voice and convey all our opinions to the experts,
[00:34:50] whether they
[00:34:53] are protecting our country, our honor, and our homeland all
[00:34:56] the time, or those who form soft power
[00:34:59] and think about many cinematic works.
[00:35:01] And we demand more. It's not an
[00:35:05] easy episode. It's a difficult episode, but I
[00:35:08] see that the beauty of this episode is that we
[00:35:11] open up and talk. Let me start.
[00:35:16] Or let me say, let's be ready
[00:35:19] on our homeland and see what
[00:35:21] is happening. I am honored in this episode, which
[00:35:25] will extend for two weeks, because we really want to talk
[00:35:29] in detail about many examples. I am honored by the presence
[00:35:32] of Major General Pilot Dr. Hisham Halaby, advisor to the Military
[00:35:35] Academy for Advanced and Strategic Studies and National
[00:35:41] the other side, from the side of cinema and art
[00:35:44] and so on, by the film critic Ahmed Saad
[00:35:47] El-Din, so that we can
[00:35:50] both sides. Good evening and welcome.
[00:35:52] And I am happy that we are talking while
[00:35:56] we are on the verge of celebrating
[00:35:59] October, God willing. The topic is not easy,
[00:36:03] but it may have personally provoked me because I
[00:36:06] was watching a film. In fact, the film was talking
[00:36:09] about the Battle of the Fortress, and the film
[00:36:12] was actually talking about a specific battle
[00:36:16] that was taking place, that is,
[00:36:20] in the 1973 war. But as you watch the film,
[00:36:24] you know it's the 1973 war, or it's mentioned that there's a war going on.
[00:36:27] But the film conveys to you that the conflict
[00:36:31] is changing, and this battle, of course, is well-known,
[00:36:34] and Major General will certainly talk about it. But the Israeli
[00:36:38] side specifically spoke here about
[00:36:41] a story between a commander of the Israeli
[00:36:45] army and a doctor, and the issue was about
[00:36:48] humanity. The commander wants to continue and keep defending.
[00:36:52] Of course, defending where? He is fighting our army and defending,
[00:36:55] meaning he wants to defend his position at the fortress, and this fortress
[00:36:59] is already occupied. This is our country. He is occupying a part
[00:37:02] of it. And at the same time, the doctor saw
[00:37:06] that, of course, because we are trying to regain
[00:37:09] the homeland, so we are fighting and we want to liberate the fortress. So he saw that
[00:37:13] the soldiers were starting to die and so on.
[00:37:16] this conflict and assures you that the enemy is defending
[00:37:20] and the enemy is determined. But
[00:37:23] the film that the land is not his and that the country is not his and that
[00:37:27] the fortress that you are defending humanely is not yours at all.
[00:37:31] But he exploits his presence on international platforms, exploits
[00:37:34] his presence in local cinema, exploits his presence in American
[00:37:38] cinema. Major General,
[00:37:41] film, I first want to talk to you as a person. Your great
[00:37:45] experience, and you are a fighter first and foremost. When
[00:37:49] you see this film, how do you feel?
[00:37:51] First, when I see this film, I will feel that
[00:37:55] they are in some
[00:37:59] way,
[00:38:02] the war, and therefore he does not want to break the generation he has. He does not want
[00:38:06] to break it. I mean, are we expected, in a
[00:38:09] commemoration like the October commemoration, or any commemoration
[00:38:13] of victories, that any other side
[00:38:16] will break the generation it has and say
[00:38:19] that we were defeated, and say the truth? Of course not. Let's be
[00:38:22] realistic. Therefore, we entered here into
[00:38:25] a type of war called the war
[00:38:28] of narrative. He tells a narrative
[00:38:32] that is true.
[00:38:36] But it looks at the event from a very small
[00:38:39] perspective that changes the thinking
[00:38:43] and vision of other parties. But when I talk about a huge event
[00:38:46] like a war, with victories and sacrifices and a prominent landmark
[00:38:50] in the history of a nation, therefore, I will not
[00:38:53] come to this event as another party and say
[00:38:57] the truth. I will tell a narrative. The narrative
[00:39:00] is true, but it takes the event
[00:39:04] in a completely different direction. That's why it's called the war of narrative. This is a very complex
[00:39:08] science, and the very important point is that this war of narrative can be done in several
[00:39:11] ways. It can be written,
[00:39:14] written on a page on social media,
[00:39:16] a literary story. The danger is that
[00:39:20] it can be made into a film or a drama, because people
[00:39:23] always love films, especially
[00:39:32] I say cinema and drama are national security. National
[00:39:35] security because they do several things.
[00:39:38] First, they shape public opinion and within it, the war
[00:39:41] of narrative. The second point is that they record history. We have
[00:39:44] historians and everything, but they document in books and references
[00:39:48] and a correct and excellent situation. But if I take an event
[00:39:52] and make it historically in the form
[00:39:55] of a film with its correct documents
[00:39:58] with all its correct events,
[00:40:01] that lives for many years and documents.
[00:40:06] the narrative. I will ask your permission here, Major General,
[00:40:09] our film critic.
[00:40:12] Cinema always tries to
[00:40:16] find a voice. Cinema is the voice of freedom, the voice
[00:40:19] of humanity in general. So I can't blame cinema.
[00:40:23] I mean, I can't say, "Why
[00:40:26] did the Israeli side make this film?" The film, for example, that
[00:40:30] you talked about was produced in 2023. So in
[00:40:33] 2023, you are still going to use, of course,
[00:40:37] Major General's term, the war of narrative. The narrative
[00:40:40] is still bothering you. How do you see this? This
[00:40:44] is very important, that I have many narratives,
[00:40:48] and these narratives lead me personally.
[00:40:52] How do I then issue them to the world, that
[00:40:55] I was overwhelmed or I
[00:40:59] was defeated or I did something
[00:41:02] wrong? But at the same time, there was a human dimension
[00:41:06] that I raised much higher than
[00:41:10] led to the defeat, especially with the passage of time, with
[00:41:14] the passage of years, from 1973 until today, we
[00:41:17] are talking about 53 years. The generation that
[00:41:20] lived through 1973 and the generation after it
[00:41:24] are now years old.
[00:41:28] In another stage, who am I targeting?
[00:41:30] From 15 to
[00:41:33] 35 years old. That segment,
[00:41:36] if I look at it and study it
[00:41:40] psychologically, it basically doesn't read much.
[00:41:43] Okay. It doesn't research or look for history.
[00:41:47] So I have a void here. How do I fill this void
[00:41:51] in my favor? I will now turn to art. Art
[00:41:54] is based on
[00:41:57] Each side of this triangle has a
[00:42:01] function. There's the entertainment
[00:42:04] part, to entertain myself and the viewer.
[00:42:07] Then there's the educational part.
[00:42:12] a kind of culture. Right. And the awareness
[00:42:15] part. The awareness here
[00:42:18] is different for me than it is for you, and different from the enemy.
[00:42:21] Why? Because my awareness is about how to get out of the story I
[00:42:25] saw, to derive the truth and resist it.
[00:42:29] But for him, awareness is about me twisting
[00:42:32] the truth to present it to others, and people will say
[00:42:37] with the human dimension.
[00:42:39] Here lies the danger of art. The danger of art is because cinema
[00:42:43] is history. Today, when we ask
[00:42:46] people, or even if we talk about the 1919
[00:42:48] revolution,
[00:42:53] shots from the trilogy,
[00:42:57] right? And we talk about it. they came together, when they marched together. Where did we get
[00:43:02] cinema. We watched many films,
[00:43:05] and the best, I can say, the father
[00:43:08] of this soft power
[00:43:11] and its danger was
[00:43:14] Germany. He was the one who invented this
[00:43:17] war and succeeded in it.
[00:43:20] When he died in World War II in 1945, when
[00:43:22] it ended, American cinema took
[00:43:26] it over. And I remember
[00:43:29] the beautiful artist Omar Sharif, once I met him, and I was talking to him
[00:43:33] about a film called Che Guevara,
[00:43:36] which he starred in. Of course, his first sentence
[00:43:40] to me was, "Do you know who produced it?"
[00:43:44] So of course, I said, "Hollywood." He said, "The CIA
[00:43:46] produced it." Yes, the
[00:43:50] CIA produced it. When did Che Guevara die? In 1967.
[00:43:53] This film was produced in 1968.
[00:43:56] Why? To whitewash
[00:43:59] America's image, of course, and to promote
[00:44:04] the script that were wrong in favor of
[00:44:08] America against Che Guevara.
[00:44:11] And the rest, if I bring it to this region,
[00:44:15] I have the 1973
[00:44:17] war, which is doubted. But the military
[00:44:20] victory exists, right? You doubt it, but I have what I can
[00:44:24] respond with. How? Through soft
[00:44:27] power. I want to convey the message, for example, to other generations.
[00:44:31] We in Egypt also used
[00:44:34] the idea of the narrative war. We used the narrative war very
[00:44:38] well in the film "The Corridor."
[00:44:48] "The Choice." "The Choice" was also documentation,
[00:44:51] important documentation of terrorism. Terrorism, too, many
[00:44:55] people will play with this narrative and say things, but here there was
[00:44:58] a strong awareness that we documented at the same
[00:45:02] time. Terrorism was almost always present
[00:45:06] and still is. We didn't wait long after it. And here
[00:45:09] is the awareness of the time, which
[00:45:12] is no longer waiting. We waited for Raafat El-Haggan for files to be opened after
[00:45:16] 25 years. But here, there was intelligence from the leadership, and at
[00:45:19] the same time, we presented the film "The Corridor." You saw, sir,
[00:45:23] how the film "The Corridor," and you are a leader and a pilot
[00:45:27] general, and you are doing the era of 1967, which is
[00:45:31] the psychological setback
[00:45:33] for the Egyptian citizen and for the soldier as well, right? And you are bringing
[00:45:37] that back with new generations. Right. Of course,
[00:45:41] I always say that documentation is of utmost importance, and documentation
[00:45:44] through films or drama in general is
[00:45:48] of utmost importance, and we don't have the luxury of not
[00:45:51] doing it. We have to do it. People love television and drama,
[00:45:55] and present the documentation
[00:45:59] through what they love. The very important point is
[00:46:02] that, in fact, when military films or
[00:46:05] any drama with military elements are made, the armed forces
[00:46:08] help. They help to
[00:46:12] adjust the scene from a military perspective, because if it
[00:46:15] wasn't accurate from a military perspective, its credibility would be low, even
[00:46:19] though it's correct. The way
[00:46:22] one holds a weapon, the clothes,
[00:46:25] as we saw Anthony Quinn in this.
[00:46:29] You see him performing ablution as if
[00:46:32] he has been performing ablution for years. So this is a very important
[00:46:35] point. Military events,
[00:46:38] military operations, all of this
[00:46:42] the armed forces help with greatly, so the work comes out excellent
[00:46:45] and lives on. These works live
[00:46:48] on because they became realistic, because the realism
[00:46:52] of cinema, especially in military films, if it wasn't there,
[00:46:56] and I'm not talking about realism
[00:47:00] the narrative itself, realism in the script. The time
[00:47:03] is up for this part. We will definitely continue in the second part, but
[00:47:07] I want to hear from you a message
[00:47:10] to our Arab viewers who are watching us, because
[00:47:13] the Arab identity and Arab national security, Egypt,
[00:47:17] Jordan, Palestine, Iraq are one. Of course, of course. What
[00:47:21] frightens Major General? What will
[00:47:24] What frightens you? What frightens you about
[00:47:27] cinema? What frightens you about the lack of good documentation,
[00:47:33] national security? What worries you?
[00:47:36] Utopia in the world, and anyone, and the region
[00:47:40] is exposed to many threats,
[00:47:43] targeting and using
[00:47:46] the components of the states themselves. Therefore, the most
[00:47:49] important thing,
[00:47:52] the most important thing is that these people are not, I mean, these
[00:47:55] people are targeted. So if I leave them, they will be taken from me very
[00:48:00] the second part. What worries you? That I am
[00:48:03] only a receiver and not
[00:48:06] a resistor. That I sit and receive Western
[00:48:09] cinema that comes to me, that destroys my narratives
[00:48:12] and facts, and I
[00:48:15] don't resist it with my cinema. Of course, this is
[00:48:18] the most important point that must be present. The solution
[00:48:22] is purely Arab, and national security is not just Egyptian,
[00:48:26] it's Arab. Cinema is good.
[00:48:29] We love it, but we must not be mere
[00:48:31] spectators. And that's it.
[00:48:34] We will continue the discussion next week on Beit Al-Kol.
[00:48:38] May you be in God's care.
[01:00:17] Die,