KAN11 — -
20260808 061000 UTC
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[00:00:00] If we create such a situation naturally, the meat industry will be a much
[00:00:04] more humane industry today. Rabbi, are you, who wrote the book
[00:00:08] "Jewish Vegetarianism," a Jewish vegetarian yourself or a
[00:00:11] vegetarian Jew? So I'm glad you asked if I'm a Jewish vegetarian,
[00:00:14] because if you had asked if I'm a vegetarian, the answer would have had
[00:00:18] to be no. Jewish vegetarianism is to treat eating meat
[00:00:21] as something non-trivial, not something you do
[00:00:24] along the way. Seriously, when they ask me
[00:00:28] before reserves or before a flight, what meal do I request? I
[00:00:32] always request a vegan meal. I arrive and there are piles of meat left, so I eat
[00:00:35] the meat. That is, I try to see how I
[00:00:39] ensure that fewer animals
[00:00:41] are slaughtered. But I'm not totally against eating them if they've already been
[00:00:45] slaughtered. So you're also a bit of a Jewish vegetarian. Right, I
[00:00:48] I I think every person in the world, especially in a time
[00:00:52] of such excessive abundance and hunger in other places, should reduce consumption, Rabbi.
[00:00:55] הרב.
[00:01:04] The truth is, I'm in a period where I eat more meat because I can't
[00:01:08] explain it. There's a situation related to the political situation, war, and depression.
[00:01:11] And I find comfort in eating meat. I do live in a vegetarian
[00:01:15] household. My wife has been a vegetarian for many, many years. I appreciate her very much. If civilization
[00:01:19] collapses and I return
[00:01:22] from our place at the top of the food
[00:01:26] chain to a situation where I fight with other animals
[00:01:30] for survival, then I might reconsider it
[00:01:32] anew.
[00:01:40] The last chapter was probably the most complex for me.
[00:01:43] I already said I'm vegan, yes, and this is the meat chapter. I want
[00:01:47] to summarize in a few words some of the impressions
[00:01:50] from this challenging journey that we were privileged to go through.
[00:05:54] and downs over the years, in its relations with
[00:05:58] its neighbors, with the great powers, with other countries
[00:06:01] in the world, and with international bodies. These relations are often
[00:06:05] influenced by the changing reality, mainly
[00:06:07] by the Israeli-Arab conflict, and in the last
[00:06:11] two years. Each of us has become
[00:06:14] an expert in foreign
[00:06:17] embassy affairs. Even before its establishment, the Zionist movement
[00:06:21] worked to preserve and develop its ties with the countries of the world and with various
[00:06:24] international organizations. Diplomatic relations are rooted somewhere
[00:06:28] in the development of the Zionist movement's international ties among
[00:06:32] the global powers. The movement then set as its goal
[00:06:36] developing ties with the power on which the sun never
[00:06:39] sets, namely the British
[00:06:42] Empire. And indeed, the important achievement was
[00:06:46] the Balfour Declaration, in which Britain declared its commitment
[00:06:49] to establishing a national home for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel. But you all
[00:06:53] know that it's all personal because Weizmann was from Manchester and he was friends with this
[00:06:57] guy and that guy, and somehow they did him a favor, as they say,
[00:07:00] and gave him this declaration. But the White Paper
[00:07:04] deteriorated relations, and from there, everything
[00:07:07] was about strengthening ties with the rising power, the United
[00:07:10] States. Israel's first diplomatic representation
[00:07:13] was the Israeli Legation
[00:07:16] in Warsaw, Poland, which opened in
[00:07:20] 1948, a short time after the declaration of the state. That's
[00:07:24] fantastic, we started right away from Poland. Israeli
[00:07:28] ambassadors are Israel's diplomatic representatives.
[00:07:31] They lead the diplomatic mission in those countries.
[00:07:35] Israel also has ambassadors in international organizations like the UN, UNESCO,
[00:07:39] the European Union, and more. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has diplomatic
[00:07:43] representations in over 100 countries. What exactly
[00:07:46] is the role of an ambassador in normal
[00:07:49] times? What happens to ambassadors
[00:07:52] especially during
[00:07:55] this period? It's not a picnic to be an ambassador
[00:07:58] today. This period, which is a period of anti-Israeli
[00:08:02] demonstrations in almost every point in the world,
[00:08:05] endless cases of
[00:08:08] for anti-Israeli activity.
[00:08:12] How do you maintain good relations with friendly
[00:08:15] countries and how can additional diplomatic
[00:08:18] ties be developed when Israel is facing a political tsunami of hatred,
[00:08:22] isolation, political isolation, condemnation, and boycotts? Tonight
[00:08:26] we will listen to those
[00:08:29] who are on the diplomatic front, and there is no
[00:08:32] more accurate word than "front" in this
[00:08:36] case. These are those who have been on that front for
[00:08:39] years and act as a shield
[00:08:43] for the image of the State of Israel in the eyes of the countries
[00:08:46] of the world and the organizations
[00:08:49] in which they operate.
[00:08:53] I would like to invite to the stage Yossi Avni-Levy,
[00:08:56] writer and ambassador, he completed
[00:09:00] his service in Berlin.
[00:09:03] Yossi Avni-Levy, winner of the Brenner
[00:09:06] Prize. Here
[00:09:08] he is.
[00:09:11] Winner.
[00:09:17] Three days in summer, he was spokesperson for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
[00:09:21] for Israeli media and an envoy in Warsaw.
[00:09:24] You see, they didn't bring anything back. In the end, you were an envoy
[00:09:28] in Warsaw, when Warsaw was already on our map since
[00:09:31] 1948. Luckily you weren't there then,
[00:09:35] it was much more dangerous. Friends, ladies and gentlemen, I want to invite
[00:09:39] Yitzhak Eldan, Yitzhakan. President
[00:09:42] of the Ambassadors Club in Israel and head of the Israeli
[00:09:46] School for Young Ambassadors,
[00:09:49] head of the text of the State of Israel, because
[00:09:51] he
[00:09:55] is, as it should be, what is called. He held
[00:09:59] a series of positions in a number of embassies,
[00:10:03] consulates, and important Jewish communities: Denmark,
[00:10:06] Paris, Canada, Los
[00:10:20] to the stage Dr. Rodica
[00:10:23] Radian-Gordon. Rodica, as you can hear
[00:10:27] from the name, is very likely
[00:10:30] from
[00:10:32] Romania.
[00:10:36] And Dr.
[00:10:37] Rodica
[00:10:41] was Deputy Director-General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
[00:10:44] in Europe, as the Ambassador of Israel to Romania, Mexico, Spain,
[00:10:48] prior to which she held diplomatic positions
[00:10:51] in the Embassies of Israel in Warsaw and in B.
[00:10:57] Hello everyone, I'm inviting
[00:11:00] to the stage a longtime friend,
[00:11:03] Avi Pazner. Avi Pazner, one of the veterans of the former Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
[00:11:07] Ambassador of Israel to Italy and France, the man
[00:11:11] who actually brought us to the situation where the Vatican opened
[00:11:15] its doors. His diplomatic activity began
[00:11:18] in the Central African Republic and then in Kenya. He was Spokesperson for the Ministry
[00:11:22] of Foreign Affairs and Spokesperson for the Israeli delegation to the conference
[00:11:25] during the term of Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. He was
[00:11:29] Israel's first non-resident ambassador
[00:11:32] to Albania, and today Albania is already opening up, as
[00:11:35] you know, and it is completely open. He served as the World Chairman
[00:11:39] of Keren Hayesod, and he speaks no less
[00:12:44] Embassy in Moscow, then in those days,
[00:12:47] to be an ambassador, to be a cultural figure
[00:12:50] in Moscow, that was a serious matter. He was Deputy
[00:12:54] Ambassador of Israel in the Ministry
[00:12:56] of Foreign Affairs. He published the book "When Dad Grows
[00:13:00] Up," which was also released in Arabic, in sign language, and in
[00:13:04] Braille. And today he volunteers for the Dream Healing organization at Hadassah
[00:13:08] Hospital in Jerusalem, and he volunteers for an association
[00:13:12] that treats cancer patients and their families
[00:13:15] and war casualties through touch. Since the beginning of the war, he has been the head of the
[00:13:18] Civil Diplomacy Department, a department
[00:13:22] that has organized over 100
[00:13:25] delegations in the last year.
[00:13:28] I would like to invite to the stage Dr. Yaakov Livne. Dr.
[00:13:32] Yaakov Livne is a Senior Deputy Director-General, Head of the Public Diplomacy
[00:13:35] Division at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Dr. Yaakov Livne,
[00:13:50] to Poland. What do you all have with Poland? He was the head of the
[00:13:53] Eurasia Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, responsible for relations with
[00:13:57] Russia, Ukraine, and other countries in the post-Soviet space, Deputy
[00:14:00] Head of the International Department, and Head of the United States Desk
[00:14:03] at the Center for Political
[00:14:06] Research. He is the Secretary of the Israeli Society for Diplomacy.
[00:14:10] He served as Chairman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Employees Committee, so
[00:14:14] when there were strikes, was that you? Me too.
[00:14:17] Completely. I want to invite to the stage
[00:14:21] the Ambassador of Israel to Ethiopia, Belaynesh
[00:14:25] Zevadia. Please.
[00:14:28] Come on, what a wonderful
[00:14:33] thing it is that a person
[00:14:37] can actually return
[00:14:39] to the place where they were born
[00:14:43] as an ambassador, and when that happens, it's just
[00:14:46] fantastic. She
[00:14:48] served in Rwanda
[00:14:51] and Burundi,
[00:14:53] and at the Consulate of Israel was Deputy Consul General of Israel
[00:14:57] for the Southwestern United States. Born in Gondar
[00:15:00] in Ethiopia, she immigrated to Israel at the age of 17. She lit
[00:15:04] a torch on Independence Day, the 66th anniversary of the State
[00:15:07] of Israel.
[00:15:11] When you immigrated at 17, I assume
[00:15:13] you immigrated as part of that great journey to the Land of Israel,
[00:15:17] right? I immigrated as part of Youth Aliyah. What?
[00:15:21] As part of Youth Aliyah. As part of Youth Aliyah?
[00:15:25] Of Operation Moses, but I
[00:15:28] didn't walk on foot, you didn't walk
[00:15:31] on foot. What luck! Luckily, my two families
[00:15:35] walked on foot, so in the family. We have people
[00:15:38] who went through
[00:17:50] that a sentence like "we don't care about
[00:17:53] them anymore" is not at all diplomatic. What do
[00:17:55] you say?
[00:17:58] Well, reality is a bit complex,
[00:18:01] and unfortunately, just like in the 60s, when you wrote the
[00:18:04] song, the situation then, so also
[00:18:08] today, I don't think the whole world is against us,
[00:18:12] but a not insignificant part
[00:18:14] of the world doesn't really
[00:18:17] like the things we do.
[00:18:21] Some of them really don't like us, and then it doesn't really matter what
[00:18:25] we do. We have to deal with that. What does an ambassador
[00:18:28] do who is in a country that doesn't like
[00:18:31] us? He deals with it.
[00:18:35] First of all, I don't think there's a country where everyone doesn't like us, and therefore,
[00:18:39] in every country, the first thing you do is find the people
[00:18:42] with whom you can engage in dialogue, and in every country there
[00:18:46] are such people.
[00:18:48] In every Western country that has a parliament,
[00:18:52] there are different factions, and you first go
[00:18:56] to the people who are willing to listen
[00:18:57] to you. You go
[00:19:01] to people, yes. For example, we have a policy in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
[00:19:04] in general that people who are anti-Semitic are excluded. We don't
[00:19:08] talk to them, but luckily, most people are not
[00:19:11] like that. Is there a way for an ambassador not to speak
[00:19:14] with the country he is in? Is there such a thing?
[00:19:17] No. When we are
[00:19:20] in a certain country, then of course, we
[00:19:24] come, convey our messages, organize
[00:19:27] support for Israel, for example,
[00:19:31] and often it's also
[00:19:34] possible to do this. For example, immediately after the
[00:19:38] attack of October 7th, of course,
[00:19:41] in every country, I think where there are Israeli embassies, we made sure
[00:19:44] to organize support, both political
[00:19:48] and public. You mentioned I was ambassador
[00:19:51] in Warsaw. The largest demonstrations of support
[00:19:54] that ever took place were actually in Poland for
[00:19:57] Israel. We helped organize them
[00:20:01] in Warsaw, in other places in Poland, and this is important
[00:20:05] because it sends a message, it sends a message of dialogue. It
[00:20:08] sends a message that other people who support
[00:20:11] us feel that they are not alone. This is part of what you
[00:20:14] do. There is a book that was recently
[00:20:18] written called "Diplomacy Without
[00:20:20] Interruption." It's by Yitzhak Eldan,
[00:20:23] and essentially, what is diplomacy without interruption?
[00:20:27] You are constantly interrupted, they send you home, and you sit at home
[00:20:30] for a year to dry out, maybe two years, maybe more.
[00:20:34] And you are no longer ambassadors in various places, but you are here in Jerusalem
[00:20:38] at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and all these bonuses that you have
[00:20:41] as ambassadors disappear from your pocket. What
[00:20:44] will happen?
[00:20:46] An inaccurate description of an Israeli diplomat.
[00:20:50] And the chairman of the committee can testify to the salaries of
[00:20:54] Foreign Ministry personnel and the lack of budgets
[00:20:57] for operations abroad. "Diplomacy Without
[00:21:00] Interruption" means a diplomat who, after leaving
[00:21:03] the Foreign Ministry, like me, continues
[00:21:06] to work to promote
[00:21:09] Israel's image abroad and to assist
[00:21:12] Israeli advocacy efforts. I
[00:21:16] did this through a unique project
[00:21:19] called "Young Ambassadors."
[00:21:22] From this city, and from all the cities
[00:21:26] in Israel, came dozens
[00:21:29] and thousands of young ambassadors in over
[00:21:32] 65 delegations
[00:21:34] that I led abroad to develop a positive
[00:21:38] dialogue between Israeli youth and youth
[00:21:42] in those countries. Like
[00:21:44] Belaynesh Zevadia, I was also born in Africa. I also
[00:21:48] immigrated through Youth Aliyah. But not from your country, but
[00:21:52] from Morocco. I was born in Casablanca.
[00:21:55] And the dream of becoming a diplomat was ignited in me when I heard Golda
[00:21:59] Meir speaking on the radio in the
[00:22:02] 60s, reaching out to African
[00:22:05] countries and offering them friendship,
[00:22:08] aid. And then I told myself, I
[00:22:12] want to be a diplomat, in order to also
[00:22:15] help African countries. The feeling
[00:22:18] of mission is the most basic and important
[00:22:36] project continues. And before,
[00:22:39] in March 23,
[00:22:43] our last delegation was to Morocco, my country
[00:22:47] of birth. We were received there
[00:22:50] like kings. Not only that, but an Israeli theater company also went there
[00:22:54] and performed an entire play
[00:22:57] in Hebrew in Morocco, and it's
[00:23:00] amazing, fantastic relations. Yes, Morocco
[00:23:04] is an excellent example of the Abraham Accords
[00:23:07] countries, because it signed the Abraham Accords, and we are
[00:23:10] now marking five years since the Abraham Accords, and if I am
[00:23:14] already mentioning them, you see how the Abraham Accords
[00:23:17] countries did not break
[00:23:20] relations with Israel during the two years of war
[00:23:23] that we are already waging, and this is
[00:23:26] very important. But there were riots in the capital city of Rabat,
[00:23:29] in other cities that protested
[00:23:32] against Israel, and today there are
[00:23:36] other strikes in Morocco against the king, but
[00:23:38] on local civilian issues. So here
[00:23:42] you have it, things change, because in
[00:23:45] 1996 we held
[00:23:47] an event at the festival called "Peace,"
[00:23:51] and ambassadors from Arab countries came, from Egypt,
[00:23:54] from Morocco, from Tunisia,
[00:23:57] even a representative of the Palestinians
[00:24:01] came with the flag, but he arrived late, so we didn't have time to hang his flag in the middle
[00:24:04] of the show. And you say, wait a minute, what a wonderful
[00:24:08] thing, we still have relations with Tunisia,
[00:24:11] for example. No, with Tunisia there are no relations. With
[00:24:15] Morocco, I was in Tunisia and they received me very well. We landed at the airport
[00:24:18] in Tunis and they said.
[00:24:32] So that means that this whole business of diplomacy
[00:24:36] is actually a kind of luftgeschäft, it changes every
[00:24:39] moment. Indeed, when our song "The whole world
[00:24:41] is against
[00:24:44] us" was written, you have to look at the situation today.
[00:24:47] Almost the whole world is against us.
[00:24:50] Nevertheless, Israeli representatives abroad must
[00:24:54] do everything.
[00:24:56] Avi Pazner, you are truly one of the veterans of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I think
[00:25:00] you even planned to be the Minister of Foreign Affairs, but you were not
[00:25:04] the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and it's a shame you weren't the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Thank you, thank you. In those days
[00:25:07] of Shamir and all the friends.
[00:25:11] How many countries in total have you been to?
[00:25:14] Look, I was first
[00:25:17] in Africa. We started our career
[00:25:21] in a country that is really in the center of
[00:25:24] Africa, that's the Central African
[00:25:27] Republic. And that was the beginning of my
[00:25:31] diplomatic service. And there
[00:25:35] was a president there that perhaps some of you heard
[00:25:38] his name, he was called Bokassa,
[00:25:41] who eliminated his political
[00:25:44] rivals, and some claim he also ate
[00:25:48] them afterwards. That's uh, but since
[00:25:52] I was his friend, I got out of it
[00:26:03] in Kenya, and that was much more
[00:26:07] turbulent. There was President Kenyatta, the famous one,
[00:26:10] who fought against the English. A very beautiful country,
[00:26:14] and we traveled a lot there, a country of
[00:26:17] safari, and a country with
[00:26:20] strategic opportunities for
[00:26:23] Israel, since it's near
[00:26:26] the Red Sea. Afterwards, I returned home
[00:26:30] and was fortunate to work
[00:26:32] with the great Abba Eban. Abba Eban was
[00:26:36] truly the most Foreign Ministry
[00:26:39] there is, the most Foreign Ministry. Truly my
[00:26:42] teacher and mentor, from him I learned to speak a bit. I
[00:26:45] hope it worked out for us. He succeeded. He succeeded.
[00:26:49] Yes, he succeeded in teaching me. Yes,
[00:26:52] definitely. And from there we went to Washington,
[00:26:56] where we were for seven years
[00:26:58] in Washington during a historic
[00:27:02] period. Of Camp David, the making
[00:27:05] of peace with Egypt,
[00:27:08] and generally Washington, I
[00:27:11] know it as the capital of the world. I was
[00:27:14] there during the time of four presidents.
[00:27:18] Imagine so much time. I arrived,
[00:27:21] Nixon was president. Two
[00:27:24] weeks later, Ford became
[00:27:27] president. Four years later, Carter became
[00:27:30] president. And a year before that.
[00:28:03] That's that's a type of hierarchy in countries. First they send the
[00:28:07] ambassadors to Africa, and then they bring them
[00:28:10] to Europe, and then as a bonus they arrive in Washington. Look,
[00:28:13] in my time at the Foreign Ministry, that's how it was. You started
[00:28:17] at the so-called bottom,
[00:28:20] and that was during the time we were developing
[00:28:24] relations with Africa. We had
[00:28:27] 28 embassies
[00:28:30] in Africa in the
[00:28:33] years. And it was customary to send young diplomats to Africa.
[00:28:36] Now, since I know
[00:28:40] French, they sent me
[00:28:42] to a country that speaks French, more or
[00:28:46] less. And then
[00:28:50] I moved to an English-speaking country,
[00:28:53] and only after that did I start going to more
[00:28:56] interesting places. And in the end, as you said
[00:29:00] earlier, I was also in Rome and also
[00:29:04] in Paris, as the song says, I was in Paris and also
[00:29:14] I served. Later on,
[00:29:18] I was also a non-resident ambassador to several
[00:29:21] countries. You mentioned Albania,
[00:29:25] there was also Malta. During the time when Albania was
[00:29:28] closed, it was exactly after
[00:29:31] Albania stopped being communist, and it
[00:29:35] was the poorest country in Europe.
[00:29:39] And it was something, there was a
[00:29:42] dictator there, Enver Hoxha, as he was
[00:29:46] called, who
[00:29:49] ordered all Albanians
[00:29:53] to prepare for an invasion from Yugoslavia. He was
[00:29:56] indeed a communist regime,
[00:29:59] and Tito was communist in Yugoslavia. But they were
[00:30:03] enemies, and every citizen
[00:30:06] received an order to build a bunker in their
[00:30:10] yard. And I remember when I arrived
[00:30:13] in Albania, it was as if I had arrived
[00:30:15] on the moon. It looked like domes, domes, domes of
[00:30:18] bunkers, a bunker every 10
[00:30:20] meters.
[00:30:26] Who here feels they love their bank? To hate it is a difficult
[00:30:30] feeling, they just take your money. Wow, no reason, it can
[00:30:33] be zero, not three shekels, not nine shekels,
[00:30:37] zero for a passing traveler. If it doesn't
[00:30:40] go my way, it's the highway. Okay, I am
[00:30:44] aware of that and I blame myself for that. To say I want zero, I want
[00:30:48] zero, they don't give it easily. The competition
[00:30:51] in banks starts
[00:30:52] now.
[00:30:56] Hey sisters, there's no plot, a blue and
[00:30:59] white vacation will be amazing. It will
[00:32:59] so well built, that it was
[00:33:01] very difficult and very expensive to dismantle it, so it
[00:33:05] remained, to this day, I don't know, I was there
[00:33:08] about 30 years ago, maybe today
[00:33:11] they've advanced, today Albania has advanced, it's also a good
[00:33:15] friend of Israel, but then it was really very
[00:33:18] frightening, because it was the most most cruel
[00:33:22] communist regime
[00:35:31] those who return to the places they
[00:35:34] came from, for example from Rodica
[00:35:37] who, the lady comes from Romania and does
[00:35:41] a doctorate in chemistry, and probably checks, not chemistry.
[00:35:45] What about biochemistry? And also in biochemistry? In biochemistry, that's what's
[00:35:49] called the relationship between biology and chemistry.
[00:35:52] Are there chemical relationships, is there chemistry between people
[00:35:56] in the Foreign Ministry? Absolutely,
[00:35:58] after all, diplomacy, that's exactly it. So I correct
[00:36:02] you that you are returning to the place you came from
[00:36:05] as an ambassador. In fact, we are here
[00:36:08] three people who experienced this
[00:36:11] experience, Blinish and I.
[00:36:15] Yaakov Livneh, and this is a unique
[00:36:18] experience. I returned to Romania
[00:36:21] in 2003,
[00:36:23] when we left, I left as a child, I was 6 years old.
[00:36:27] in 1963 and we left almost without
[00:36:31] a voice, and I returned
[00:36:34] representing the State of Israel, so first
[00:36:38] of all, for me and for Ami who was still alive then
[00:36:42] and joined us, the family, this
[00:36:45] was a special pride, to return
[00:36:48] with my head held high after that in fact,
[00:36:52] how old were you when you came to Israel? Six, so that means you remember
[00:36:56] Romania? I remembered Romania, where are you
[00:36:59] from? Bucharest? Bucharest, yes. And the closing
[00:37:02] of my circle was that the
[00:37:05] ambassador's residence where we lived, one of my sons is also here,
[00:37:09] and he also experienced it,
[00:37:12] it was about half a kilometer from the house where I was born
[00:37:16] in fact. That means that you really returned
[00:37:18] home, I really returned
[00:37:20] home. You didn't return as a Romanian, you're
[00:37:24] Israeli. Right, absolutely right. It helped
[00:37:28] me a lot and on the other hand it confused the Romanians from time
[00:37:51] the audience in Israel loves Romanian stories, every evening of Romanian
[00:37:55] stories, boom, the audience comes. So it
[00:37:58] helped a lot to open doors, and in fact,
[00:38:02] if we really want to understand what an
[00:38:05] ambassador does. The role of an ambassador is to open
[00:38:08] doors, the role of an ambassador is to address
[00:38:11] audiences, uh, to find
[00:38:14] young audiences, to find, to identify
[00:38:17] the... next generations of leaders in all
[00:38:21] sorts of ways, that is to say, not only political leaders,
[00:38:24] also economic leaders, also cultural
[00:38:27] leaders, also
[00:38:31] א וזה לא לא תמיד קל ולא תמיד
[00:38:34] פשוט, אבל זה תמיד מאתגר ותמיד מאוד מעניין. פנטסטי,
[00:38:38] וינה, גם את חוזרת
[00:38:40] הביתה מה שנקרא, אבל אני בטוח שהשגרות לא הייתה
[00:38:44] ליד גונדר, היא הייתה בטח במרכז
[00:38:47] ובמערכת המרכזית, ואת באה לשמה
[00:38:50] כישראלית, הפעם זה משהו אחר,
[00:38:54] איך מקבלים אותך שם?
[00:38:57] הסיפור? שלי היה סיפור מאוד
[00:38:59] מעניין,
[00:39:04] תמיד אמרו או שאני שגרירת אתיופיה
[00:39:07] בישראל או שגרירת ישראל באתיופיה, אף אחד
[00:39:11] לא כאילו עד לקראת הסוף כל הזמן
[00:39:14] התבלבלו, אני דוברת המערית, אני מכירה את התרבות,
[00:39:17] אני מכירה את השפה,
[00:39:21] השגרי רודיס אבባ,
[00:39:24] בצם למה גם באדיס אבባ.
[00:39:27] גרתי לא רחוק מהשגרירות שלנו עכשיו כל
[00:39:31] בוקר הייתי עוברת דרך הבית
[00:39:35] שגדלתי בוא הייתי בו הרבה זמן
[00:39:37] סיפור
[00:39:42] לפעם הראשונה שקרה באתיופיה
[00:39:45] לאתיופים מישהו שנולד שם
[00:39:48] וחזר כשגריר כשהגשתי את כתב המנה
[00:39:52] נשיא אתיופי אמר לי הגשמת לי
[00:39:55] חלום איזה חלום'. שבתי לך, הוא אומר
[00:39:59] לי, מגיעים, רופאים,
[00:40:02] מגיעים, כולם מגיעים, כל ה...
[00:40:05] אתה, מקצועות מגיעים, אבל
[00:40:08] שגריר שהגיש כתב האמנה ודיבר איתי
[00:40:11] באמהרית, לא קרה במדינה, וזה הכי
[00:40:14] מעניין, אז באמת קיבלו אותי, אני
[00:40:18] הסתובבתי בשוק פעם, איזה בחור
[00:40:21] רץ אחריי,
[00:40:25] השומרי ראש שלי כמעט ייפו אותו. להראות לי את התמונה
[00:40:28] שלי בטלפון שלו, עד כדי כך היה מלא
[00:40:32] פרסומים על ההגעה שלי, וזה מאוד עינן
[00:40:36] אותם, איך בכל זאת בחורה שנולדה
[00:40:39] בכפר, תארו לעצמכם עכשיו שאני חושבת שאני
[00:40:42] יושבת עם אנשים מכובדים האלה,
[00:40:46] אני זוכרת אחורה והולכת לכפר שנולדתי
[00:40:49] בו, שרזתי בלי
[00:40:53] נעליים, בגדים קרועים,
[00:40:56] והגעתי. בארץ, למדתי שפה
[00:40:59] חדשה, תרבות חדשה, ובכל זאת להגיע
[00:41:03] הכיש שגרירה, בכמה היית כשהגעת לאתיופיה
[00:41:06] כשגרירה, 42, אני
[00:41:09] חושבת, צעירה, הייתי גם צעירה, זה גם
[00:41:12] אנשים כמה פעמים שאלו אותי איפה השגרירה שלכם, אני
[00:41:16] אומרת שזה אני אני השגרירה, מה פתאום הביאו את
[00:41:20] הילדה הזאת, כאילו
[00:41:29] שואלים אותי, איך זה יכול להיות? המדינה
[00:41:32] הגדולה, ישראל נחשבת, אחד מהמדינות
[00:41:35] הגדולות בעולם, איך המדינה הגדולה
[00:41:38] שהלכה,
[00:41:51] את חוזרת הביתה לאתיופיה, את חוזרת הביתה
[00:41:54] לרומניה, ואחד הדברים ש,
[00:41:58] שמעון פרס אמר באחד האירועים הגדולים, והיינו
[00:42:01] חברים, והוא אמר: יוסי אלפי יהיה שגריר
[00:42:05] ישראל בעירא, הוא יהיה השגריר הראשון שלנו
[00:42:09] בעיראק. וואלה, אני התרגשתי, אמרתי, שמעון,
[00:42:12] מתי זה הולך לקרות, חכה, יש זמן, יש
[00:42:15] זמן, באיזה שהוא שלב, חשבתי טוב,
[00:42:18] בסדר, הנה, סדם חוסין הלך, ושמעון פרס עדיין
[00:42:22] פה, אני אפגש איתו, קבעו לי פגישה ב-6
[00:42:25] בבוקר, שש בבוקר בשביל בן אדם שעובד בלילה,
[00:43:02] אתה רוצה שאני אכנס לעניינים הוא אומר לי תחכה זה יקח
[00:43:06] זמן וזה זה הוא כבר לא פה.
[00:43:10] סדם חוסן גם לא פה, ועיראק עוד מעט גם כן לא פה, ולך
[00:43:13] תדע מה יהיה פה כשאני פעם מגיע להיות שגריר ישראל
[00:43:17] בעירק. זה לא הולך כל כך קל, את יודעת, ואני שואל
[00:43:21] אותך יוסי, יוסי, אתה סופר ואתה מקבל
[00:43:24] פרסים מאוד מאוד מכובדים, זה לא צחוק,
[00:43:28] ואיך חי בן אדם שבעצם רוצה לספר את
[00:43:31] נפשו החוצה ולא לדבר
[00:43:34] דיפלומטית, באמת, להוציא את הקישקס ולשים
[00:43:38] את הכל על הנייר. ולשים דם ויזע
[00:43:41] ודמעות על על מה שנקרא ספרות ואתה
[00:43:45] מקבל פרס זה לא צחוק אפילו
[00:43:57] אדם לפני שאני עונה אני רוצה להגיד לך שיש קסם במה
[00:44:01] שדיברתים עכשיו שאדם חוזר הביתה אה
[00:44:04] אתיופיה רומניה ברית המועצות לשעבר כמעט
[00:44:07] עיראק הקסם הזה כמעט. גם בנו במשפחה שלנו, משום
[00:44:11] שהחלום של אבא שלי היה שאני אהיה השגיר הראשון
[00:44:15] יוסי באפגניסתן,
[00:44:18] קהילה קטנה, ציורית, רגע,
[00:44:47] intellectuals,
[00:44:51] and it's not always easy and not always
[00:44:55] simple, but it's always challenging and always very interesting. Fantastic,
[00:44:57] Vina, you also return
[00:45:01] home, so to speak, but I'm sure the embassy wasn't
[00:45:05] near Gondar, it was probably in the central
[00:45:09] and in the main system, and you came there
[00:45:12] as an Israeli, this time it's something else,
[00:45:15] how do they receive you there?
[00:45:18] My story was a very
[00:45:22] interesting story, they always said either I'm the ambassador of
[00:45:25] Ethiopia in Israel or the ambassador of
[00:45:29] Israel in Ethiopia, no one really until near
[00:45:32] the end they always got confused, I speak
[00:45:36] Amharic, I know the culture,
[00:46:13] to me you made my dream come true, what dream.
[00:46:16] I built for you, he says to me,
[00:46:20] doctors come, everyone comes,
[00:46:23] all the... you, professions
[00:46:26] come, but an ambassador who presented
[00:46:30] credentials and spoke to me in Amharic, it never happened
[00:47:53] is considered, one of the greatest
[00:47:57] country
[00:48:38] גם נספח תרבות בלונדון, אבל
[00:48:42] שגרירים לא היו סופרים
[00:48:45] לדעתי, כמו שאני זוכר, אני
[00:48:48] עכשיו מגיע אליך, דן אוריין ואומר אתה גם. גם
[00:48:52] כן סופר ואיך הדברים האלה מסתדרים, איך
[00:48:56] מסתדר סופר עם
[00:48:58] דיפלומט?
[00:51:38] טוב, האמת שאני לא ממש סופר, רק ספר אחד קטן וגם ספר
[00:51:42] ילדים, לא משהו רציני כזה כמו של יוסי, אבל הרעיון
[00:51:46] הוא שתמיד אם אתה מצליח לחבר את מה שאתה אוהב
[00:51:49] לעשות עם המקום שאתה הולך אליו ולראות את הדברים. חשובים
[00:51:52] להם, אז אתה יכול לעשות עם זה
[00:52:39] להיות אלוף העולם בהתעמלות וזה גם לא קרה, אז עשיתי פשרה
[00:52:43] והלכתי למשרד החוץ, אתה משרת במשרד החוץ הרבה מאוד
[00:52:46] from '91,
[00:52:49] from '91, that's 102,
[00:52:51] 34, wow, 34
[00:53:05] works out again when you find the right place, you can connect
[00:53:08] almost anything you love to the place you go to if you manage to do it
[00:53:12] in things that are meaningful to them. What is the country that interested
[00:53:16] you most during your ambassadorship? In every way, you're not allowed to say because I don't want
[00:53:28] that the most significant experience for me was in North Macedonia, I was a mobile
[00:53:31] ambassador to North Macedonia, by the way, a mobile ambassador is an ambassador who doesn't have an ambassador.
[00:53:35] who goes around with a small suitcase and is always passing through
[00:53:39] duty-free, and basically everything he does
[00:53:42] he does with a tiny local team, but
[00:53:45] mainly with a lot of support from Israel, and there we did
[00:53:49] really very very significant things, but again
[00:53:52] within when the idea is to connect what you do with
[00:53:56] what is important to them, so I found a children's book, I made a connection there with
[00:54:00] an American organization, after all, it was a country that was
[00:54:02] in its early stages, so what happens?
[00:54:19] Look, we know the exact numbers,
[00:54:22] they were expelled and then murdered in Treblinka
[00:54:26] and the idea was that in Israel and in other places almost certainly there
[00:54:29] almost no one knew their story and part of the effort was to think how do you
[00:54:33] take this terrible story and make sure they hear about it
[00:54:37] and know it and want to be part of this story.
[00:54:40] For example, we held an innovation competition to tell the
[00:54:43] Jewish story. When I came up with this idea to the guy
[00:54:47] who led it, Azrieli College with Michael Mizrahi, he
[00:54:51] told me I wanted to throw you out the window, but you are an ambassador. So I said,
[00:54:54] come, tell me what you want. And I suggested to him: Let's do an innovation
[00:54:58] competition, because everyone wants Israeli innovation, to tell the Jewish
[00:55:01] story. It became the biggest innovation competition that was in the Balkans
[00:55:05] at that time, 120 young people came from all over the Balkans and from the United
[00:55:09] States and from Israel, to look for solutions on how to tell the
[00:55:12] Jewish story in innovative ways. The former
[00:55:15] Minister of Science and later President of Brillian
[00:55:18] came, he was the chief judge we brought and 20 entities that came
[00:55:22] to provide guidance there, and 20 young people
[00:55:25] out of the 120 won and came to Israel for a Startup Nation
[00:55:28] tour, to show what they did, the idea was to look for how
[00:55:32] to tell this story, so therefore always with... if you manage to make this
[00:55:36] small connection between what you love and what is important to you with what
[00:55:39] is important to them then you can really be, I think
[00:55:43] a better description is that a good matchmaker for an ambassador is
[00:55:46] a matchmaker, he finds the things that are important to both sides and if he is also
[00:55:50] enthusiastic then he