KAN11 — broadcast
20261105 080500 UTC
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[00:00:08] is happening here, and that, and I really got annoyed, I was like
[00:00:11] two days without a phone in the north, and that, but the reality
[00:00:15] is always seeping in because you come to a beach
[00:00:18] that once had a multitude of people in the Kinneret and you see
[00:00:22] that what the war didn't do, it did, and it's desolate
[00:00:26] there, and you arrive, yes, there are hardly any people.
[00:00:39] And you understand that the North
[00:00:41] is still licking its wounds and big time, and who
[00:01:58] look, while we are talking.
[00:02:00] Behind us in the room here the representatives of Otzma Yehudit are meeting with
[00:02:03] President Herzog, and a short while ago they recommended to him
[00:02:07] their candidate for forming the government, as expected, of course, Prime Minister
[00:02:11] Benjamin Netanyahu, but really
[00:02:14] surprising, Omri, yes, but what is very interesting is what we
[00:02:18] hear here in the conversation between the representatives of Otzma Yehudit and the President. First of all, both
[00:02:21] Minister Michaeli Eliyahu and Minister Wasserlauf say here
[00:02:24] to Herzog, "They stole the elections from us." Wasserlauf says
[00:02:28] to Herzog, "There are many.
[00:02:30] How can one say that there are true results and that they have not changed when the investigation has not even concluded?" And Herzog answers him and says,
[00:02:50] "There are mechanisms in the law that allow, if the suspicions
[00:02:53] are indeed proven, to go back, but we are not even there right now.
[00:02:57] There is no evidence, there is not enough findings." Such
[00:03:00] a thing that there was really an attempt to interfere in these
[00:03:04] elections.
[00:03:07] Right? This is what he brought from home, is that what they wanted
[00:03:11] to say?
[00:03:14] Absolutely Omri, and we also saw Minister Mich Eliyahu who, as he entered the president's office,
[00:03:17] already stopped on the red carpet and said these things, he said: "We
[00:03:21] insist on saying that there is a massive act of election fraud here,"
[00:03:25] and he says explicitly, "These elections
[00:03:28] were stolen."
[00:03:33] Or just, you know, he says what comes to his mind
[00:03:37] and opinion and presents things
[00:03:39] as fact?
[00:03:42] So we have to say that we hear from him and also from other leaders of Otzma Yehudit
[00:03:46] who say there is evidence and currently it is being checked, they
[00:03:49] say that from what they know, there is solid
[00:03:52] evidence that can prove this, that there was indeed fraud
[00:03:56] and not on a limited scale, but really on a
[00:04:00] broad scale. They are talking here about sums of more than 100 million
[00:04:04] shekels, 180 million shekels that were transferred in order
[00:04:07] to bring people to the polls and vote. Meaning Liel, they are talking here about
[00:04:11] proofs that they know exist,
[00:04:14] they are not presenting them, yes, for the avoidance of doubt,
[00:04:18] certainly, but absolutely, but you know
[00:04:21] that one can also say that if President Herzog is talking here about the Attorney
[00:04:24] General, whose name comes up, and he
[00:04:27] says, "I ask not to disqualify representatives."
[00:04:30] In fact, people who work in public service when they are simply presenting their professional
[00:04:34] opinion, and then the representatives of Otzma Yehudit tell him, "And what about the head of the Sabbath
[00:04:38] Casino?" And President Herzog replies and says, "I spoke with both
[00:04:41] of them and both are doing their job faithfully." I said this yesterday as well,
[00:04:45] for now the investigation is still ongoing and there is not yet enough evidence to
[00:04:49] talk about what you are talking about here, about what you are saying here about large-scale fraud
[00:04:52] that misled the elections, according to the words
[00:04:56] of the members of Otzma Yehudit. I will tell you that about an hour ago.
[00:05:08] We refrain from recommending any candidate for forming the government, and members of
[00:05:12] Knesset.
[00:05:15] It is very important for us to say that we remain in the religious bloc, but that the issue
[00:05:18] of regulating the status of Torah students is what will guide us and it is the most
[00:05:22] important thing for any candidate who wants to come and form a government.
[00:05:25] 100%. We will get back to you, I suppose,
[00:05:29] later, Dikla Aron, please
[00:05:33] keep us updated, thank you very much, and we say good morning to Rabbi Moshe
[00:05:37] Maya, good morning and blessed, and a veteran
[00:05:40] and respected member of the Council of Torah Sages of Shas, thank you
[00:05:43] for joining us, so what, did you keep him
[00:05:46] yesterday? Yes, we asked him not
[00:05:49] to leave, all the Council came to him
[00:05:52] and told him that he must remain
[00:05:56] as the chairman of the movement. He is Aryeh Deri, Rabbi
[00:05:59] Maya, please explain why
[00:06:02] it is important for you at this stage
[00:06:05] to hold on to Deri as the leader of the movement,
[00:06:09] even though we saw the defeat that
[00:06:12] Shas suffered at the polls. I don't know if Shas suffered a defeat,
[00:06:16] there is a leader of the world, the Holy One, Blessed be He, is the leader, the Holy One,
[00:06:20] Blessed be He, decided that today there should be a unity government for one
[00:06:24] reason, all the signs are there
[00:06:27] that the time of the Messiah
[00:06:29] has arrived,
[00:06:32] but we have one serious problem, the First Temple
[00:06:36] was destroyed because of three transgressions, they knew about
[00:06:39] the transgressions, and since they knew about the transgressions, they corrected them. He
[00:06:42] says the Second Temple was built, the Second Temple
[00:06:45] was destroyed due to baseless hatred. The correction
[00:06:49] for baseless hatred is baseless love. As long
[00:06:52] as we lived as two
[00:06:55] separate camps in general, not as one
[00:06:58] people, hating one another, yes, then there is no baseless
[00:07:01] love. So you say, this is unity. I want to ask differently,
[00:07:05] Liel, when Aryeh Deri comes to you and says that he ostensibly asks
[00:07:08] to retire from the leadership of Shas, you already understand the game, you know
[00:07:12] that it's just a tactic and that he actually wants to stay. Why do you think it's a tactic, because
[00:07:16] it repeats itself every time? No, no, no, Aryeh has no
[00:07:19] tactics, Aryeh is a man of truth, especially when he
[00:07:23] talks to us, he certainly speaks the truth, yes, so we don't
[00:07:27] think it's a tactic at all, Aryeh simply
[00:07:30] understood that he had nothing more to do, and he said, "Why should I
[00:07:34] waste my time on all sorts of things?" What do you
[00:07:37] mean he has nothing more to do? He understood that the moment
[00:07:40] we, the public,
[00:07:43] didn't choose us, then we proved to him that it's not
[00:07:46] reality, and therefore they need him,
[00:07:49] so, so, so Rabbi Maya, help us understand, you
[00:07:53] say the Holy One, Blessed be He, governs
[00:07:56] the world, I don't think there's any
[00:07:59] great dispute about this, but explain to us what happened to Shas, from 11
[00:08:03] mandates to six mandates, I will
[00:08:07] explain to you why the Holy One, Blessed be He, did this, and that's it, now
[00:08:11] all the time, if Shas still received the mandate
[00:08:14] to form a government, and the Arabs did not receive, they change
[00:08:18] the whole map of the picture, then it would be the
[00:08:21] same situation, then the baseless hatred would continue endlessly.
[00:08:23] So what does the Holy One, Blessed be He, want? The Holy One, Blessed be He,
[00:08:27] wants to build the Third Temple already,
[00:08:30] to bring the Messiah, that's what the Holy One, Blessed be He,
[00:08:33] wants, so the Holy One, Blessed be He, wants a small Shas actually, if
[00:08:36] I, and now there is no Bibi, and Bibi has no
[00:08:39] possibility of forming a government alone. And therefore
[00:08:43] he will go for unity. Are you happy that Netanyahu has no possibility of forming
[00:08:47] a color government? If the Holy One, Blessed be He, wants unity, how can I not
[00:08:50] be happy? The moment there will be Bibi and the other one,
[00:08:54] they will not taunt each
[00:08:57] other, they will not degrade each other, they will see
[00:09:01] the beauty in the other, and then baseless love
[00:09:04] will come by itself. I want to suggest another suggestion?
[00:09:08] Perhaps, you know, Shas is a party that
[00:09:13] brought the Mizrahi message, made a revolution
[00:09:16] in Israeli society, and among other things,
[00:09:18] unlike your allies in United Torah Judaism, whose voters
[00:09:22] were always a hard core of Haredim,
[00:09:25] Shas also had many traditional voters, people who
[00:09:29] send their children to military service, who saw in the three
[00:09:32] years since the war broke out, that Shas, which wants
[00:09:36] to represent tradition and Mizrahi identity,
[00:09:39] suddenly. for her voters, even
[00:09:43] among you in the Council, even you, if conscription orders come,
[00:09:46] you will throw them in the toilet, and there is no help for Israel from an enemy,
[00:09:50] and there is no war of commandment where a groom leaves his canopy, perhaps you simply
[00:09:53] scared away the traditional voters, because
[00:09:57] your positions, to tell you one thing, that a large
[00:10:00] part of our traditional voters
[00:10:03] did not, perhaps did not vote, I am not yet sure
[00:10:07] about that,
[00:10:09] but if if we.
[00:10:25] My hands have done this strength, only I and I and I and
[00:10:29] the fruits of the army and the army are
[00:10:31] the burden, and therefore you also need to share the burden. After you, they went
[00:10:35] to war, you will sit here, this is their
[00:10:38] view, but the Holy One, Blessed be He, says exactly the opposite. Tell
[00:10:42] me, who, who, who is in Rabbi Moshe Maya's dream government? Meaning, what is the composition of
[00:10:46] your government? First of all, all the left is already promising all
[00:10:49] the promises, we will give you, you will not enlist, no army, no
[00:10:53] anything, just come with us.
[00:10:55] Yes, who promises that? Can you elaborate? Listen, everyone.
[00:10:59] I don't, I don't hear much in the media, so I don't know the exact
[00:11:03] names, but no, but certainly, you say,
[00:11:06] with all due respect to what is heard in the media, there are certainly talks in closed
[00:11:09] rooms. What, for example, did Aryeh Deri tell
[00:11:13] you? Deri, for a long time,
[00:11:15] but yesterday he was at my place just because I wanted
[00:11:19] to ask. So what did he tell you? Does he say there are concrete offers from
[00:11:22] the left? To join? No, no, we didn't talk about that at all, we just
[00:11:26] focused on the point, not for a long time, that we ask him
[00:11:29] to return to lead the movement. By the way, he agreed immediately, he said, "Okay, I'm continuing, I'm
[00:11:33] taking responsibility." I wrote him the letter before, and all
[00:11:36] the time, all the Council agreed with him
[00:11:39] in the letter and sent it to him and asked him, so he
[00:11:42] understood that, and then he himself,
[00:11:44] apparently, will resign from the Knesset, he wasn't
[00:11:48] all
[00:11:50] that he used to be, today he was
[00:11:52] most of the time in
[00:11:55] another place entirely, in the whole
[00:11:58] building. Tell me, isn't it time to go home? Isn't it time to look for
[00:12:01] a new leader? What, is Shas dependent only on Aryeh Deri? Is Deri
[00:12:05] gone? Is Shas erased? Why do you think
[00:12:08] that? If we have, why do I think so? Because he has been the head of the movement
[00:12:11] since 2015. The movement is at a low point. If he is a talented
[00:12:14] person and a genuine person, maybe there is someone more talented.
[00:12:18] There isn't, the reality is there isn't. We know, we sat,
[00:12:22] all the Council. And we saw that we needed to ask him, so
[00:12:26] actually, what, there's no future for the movement? Now, you know
[00:12:30] that Rabbi Deri has been with us for many
[00:12:33] years.
[00:12:36] Our future is in the Holy One, blessed be He, and if you had let me finish what I started to say
[00:12:39] earlier, I would have explained why I said a unity government. If
[00:12:43] a unity government, then why did you recommend Netanyahu? To tell you what I wanted
[00:12:47] to, why, but she recommended Netanyahu. Let me go back to what
[00:12:50] I wanted to say earlier, and then you'll understand many things. The question is a simple
[00:12:54] question. The House was destroyed because they knew the iniquity. The Second Temple
[00:12:58] was destroyed because of baseless hatred, there will only be baseless love. Today,
[00:13:01] in the current situation that existed until today, there is no
[00:13:05] possibility of baseless hatred. The taunting will continue,
[00:13:08] the hatred will continue, the seeing
[00:13:11] of women will continue, and in short,
[00:13:15] I give you the highest mark
[00:13:17] that you heated up the whole world. Who
[00:13:21] is that you? If yes, this is the reality. No, who are
[00:13:25] you who heated up the whole
[00:13:26] world?
[00:13:30] of yours, you know, there is a warning that some of you
[00:13:34] in the Council of Torah Sages of Shas contributed to baseless
[00:13:37] hatred when you said, when you said, when you said,
[00:13:40] whoever receives a conscription order should throw it in the toilet, if we get
[00:13:43] conscription orders, leave the country, not
[00:13:47] the Council as a council, but members of the Council. I'll tell you
[00:13:50] one thing, in our synagogue for years
[00:13:54] and years. And to this day, when
[00:13:57] they open the Holy Ark, it says, when they open the Holy Ark
[00:14:01] to take out a Torah scroll, the gates of heaven open with mercy,
[00:14:05] and believe me, there are early minyanim that are in a great
[00:14:08] hurry, and yet every time the Ark is opened,
[00:14:12] 10 minutes are spent praying for the soldiers, that the Holy One, blessed be He,
[00:14:15] will succeed in their hands and everything, so it seems there is something against
[00:14:19] the soldiers. No, but they don't want to be, they don't want to be
[00:14:22] soldiers, that's the problem. The question is...
[00:14:51] What about the words of the Rambam who says even a groom from his room and a bride? You interpret
[00:15:25] the verses correctly. What will you study Rambam well and understand
[00:15:29] what the Holy One, blessed be He, really wants and what are the commandments of the Holy One, blessed be He,
[00:15:32] and how He leads the world? Rabbi Maya, why should my son, my four
[00:15:36] sons, go?
[00:15:58] If you open the portion of Bechukotai, what the Holy One, Blessed be He, says, He says, "And five of you shall chase a hundred,
[00:16:02] and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight, and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword."
[00:16:05] Everything is written, everything is written in the portion.
[00:16:10] There is currently, when you hear, wait, Rabbi Maya, but you, you know, you are in spiritual leadership,
[00:16:14] but you are in the spiritual leadership of a movement that is also a political movement that has a great influence on
[00:16:18] Israeli society, and you are a person with responsibility. When you hear
[00:16:22] the Chief of Staff say in discussions, "I don't have
[00:16:26] manpower, I am short tens of thousands of soldiers to
[00:16:29] deal with all the calls," he
[00:16:31] says, "You don't have manpower, but don't harm
[00:16:35] Torah students if you want to succeed."
[00:17:45] So I explain, I want a government not with the extreme
[00:17:47] left, I want a government only with
[00:17:51] Gantz and with Bibi, and the rest will be completed
[00:17:55] by us, the Haredim, the religious will complete
[00:17:58] the rest, and we will have 68,
[00:18:01] with quiet, that's it, who are the Haredim and the religious, honorable
[00:18:05] Haredim, we, how many are we Haredim? No, Haredim also includes
[00:18:08] United Torah Judaism, Shas, six mandates,
[00:18:12] yes, these are right, they are seven and we are six, that's
[00:18:16] 11. By the way, why don't you join a left-wing government? You
[00:18:19] were Deputy Minister of Education in Rabin's government, right, that today
[00:18:22] the leftists are in favor, meaning they will not
[00:18:25] be able to retract what they loudly shouted
[00:18:29] that yeshiva students must be drafted.
[00:18:31] Therefore, I don't, I don't delude myself
[00:18:35] that they will change their minds like
[00:18:40] you said that Haredim must go. The Holy One, blessed be He,
[00:18:43] said that they should not go, that they
[00:18:46] are only the protection of the people of Israel, and I will perform all the great
[00:18:50] miracles so that the people of Israel will win, but
[00:18:54] first of all, yeshiva students, don't touch them,
[00:18:57] let them toil in Torah. That is what the Holy One, blessed be He,
[00:19:01] wants, and therefore I said, "Let's do 'Ayn' and this
[00:19:05] yes." And with Bibi
[00:19:07] in rotation, all the good things, and we will have
[00:19:11] a government, that then they will not attack each other, because they will all
[00:19:14] be in the same government, or consequently, the Messiah
[00:19:16] is at the door, why? Because there will be peace,
[00:19:20] there will be unity among us. Very good, Rabbi Moshe
[00:19:23] Maya, veteran and respected member of the Council of Great
[00:19:27] Torah Sages, thank you very much, I wish you long life and robust
[00:19:30] health, thank you very much, thank you
[00:19:32] very much, commercials, here are the news on Channel
[00:19:36] B. Immediately.
[00:20:10] I don't understand what I'm seeing, a lack of understanding of what's really happening, this
[00:20:13] is truly a combination of
[00:20:15] the concept, this truth must
[00:20:18] come out,
[00:20:24] one of them simply cocks the weapon and opens fire in our
[00:20:28] direction,
[00:20:31] they are the head, you are to blame, there are many to blame for October 7th, I don't
[00:20:34] think the Supreme Court is one of them.
[00:20:39] I've never seen such a thing, I've never heard such
[00:20:41] stories.
[00:20:48] I very much hope that the Israeli public will know
[00:20:52] to believe the truth and will not follow lies.
[00:20:55] A Time for Truth coming soon
[00:20:59] on Kan 11, loved here,
[00:21:00] box.
[00:21:04] Tomorrow on Garlic, Pepper and Olive Oil, the Jerusalem pastry chef couple,
[00:21:07] Keren and Itzik Kadosh, will host me
[00:21:11] in my kitchen. There will be a lot of sweetness, but not
[00:21:14] only that. We came to evacuate. Crime is cooking. What more do
[00:21:17] we need than that? Tomorrow.
[00:21:20] You know, Liel, this week we marked 31 years since the assassination
[00:21:36] of Yitzhak Rabin, an event
[00:21:38] that passed under the radar for
[00:21:42] most of us because the pace of events here is a crazy
[00:21:45] pace, and also because we tend to forget after the years pass. And to remember,
[00:21:49] we. We invited this morning the former Director General of the Prime Minister's
[00:21:53] Office, Shimon Sheves. Good morning. Good
[00:21:57] morning. One of the closest people to Yitzhak Rabin
[00:22:00] during his tenure as Prime Minister and until
[00:22:03] the assassination. Tell me, is it just us who think that this anniversary
[00:22:06] no longer interests anyone?
[00:22:09] No, it is indeed a very
[00:22:11] difficult event.
[00:22:14] For a person like me who lived through the assassination
[00:22:17] 31 years, to experience
[00:22:21] the state of Israel 31 years later,
[00:22:25] ah, that almost no one remembers, they try to make us forget
[00:22:28] and to forget, and for many years now, even the education
[00:22:32] system partly, by the way, I was in many
[00:22:36] educational institutions that hold very respectable memorial days, I also
[00:22:39] participated in a few of those, and yesterday there was also a large
[00:22:43] conference of youth movements in Arsal, but overall the state as a state tries
[00:22:47] to forget and to invest. Shimon, let's
[00:22:50] go, let's say, I don't know, 31 years
[00:22:53] back or 30 years back,
[00:22:57] ah, how did you imagine
[00:23:00] that this terrible disaster, this low point
[00:23:04] in Israeli society, would affect us in the future?
[00:23:07] Compared to what you see here today, I
[00:23:11] said, on the night of the assassination, I said
[00:23:14] in a very measured and cold way, that the state
[00:23:17] of Israel that existed before the assassination would never be the same state, but did you think it would
[00:23:21] get better or that we would learn our lesson from the assassination or
[00:23:25] that we would reach the situation we are in? I
[00:23:29] I thought more or less that throughout the years we would reach the situation
[00:23:33] we are in today, because there are forces
[00:23:36] in the state, ah, the division
[00:23:40] and the disconnection between one person
[00:23:42] and another has grown or has not
[00:23:46] diminished. Ah, I hear what
[00:23:50] Rabbi Maya said, I heard your interview with him, he was
[00:23:53] such an active participant in Rabin's government
[00:23:56] in '92, he was Deputy Minister of Education, he was
[00:23:59] Shulamit Aloni's deputy, do you understand what a
[00:24:03] drama it was that Rabbi Maya was Deputy Minister of Education
[00:24:07] and Culture for Shulamit Aloni of
[00:24:10] Meretz, from Meretz, yes, and you heard him
[00:24:13] now, and what did you think? That this is what happened to us, the world
[00:24:17] changed, the world became extreme,
[00:24:21] dark, ah, extreme, messianic.
[00:24:25] Ah, I saw the phenomena
[00:24:27] of, people think that the incitement to assassinate
[00:24:31] Rabin started in Oslo, the incitement to assassinate
[00:24:35] Rabin started long before Oslo, so when you
[00:24:39] hear sentences this week, such that received a lot
[00:24:42] of attention in the public, like a protester shouting,
[00:24:46] "We will return you to Birkenau or Auschwitz, we will rebuild Sobibor for you."
[00:24:50] Protesters outside the home of the head of the direct
[00:24:53] Gantz, who shout sentences of the kind
[00:24:57] Omri is talking about. As someone who has
[00:25:00] mileage, exposed to incitement in this life, what, what, what do you
[00:25:04] think? I think that the issue
[00:25:07] of incitement, the issue of delegitimization, the issue
[00:25:10] of rebellion, the issue of not accepting the other,
[00:25:14] the issue of lack of tolerance, the issue of
[00:25:17] messianism, you see what's happening in four years. This country,
[00:25:20] we all know, all of us, including you, including
[00:25:24] all of us, what's happening in Judea and Samaria in the last four years,
[00:25:28] you hear an outcry in the Israeli public, that there is
[00:25:31] a Jewish public rioting, a rioting terrorist
[00:25:35] in Judea and Samaria, yes, by the way, there are voices of condemnation, even from within religious
[00:25:39] Zionism, I must point out, it's also important to state this, yes,
[00:25:43] the statement, I understand there are differences of opinion, but I want to say the statements that I
[00:25:46] want to say, there are
[00:25:50] in Israel, and not hundreds and not dozens, but
[00:25:54] many thousands who do not accept Israel
[00:25:57] as a state of law, they do not establish Israel as a state of law, they
[00:26:01] do what they want, they. And the government, ministers
[00:26:04] in the government give them backing, this did not happen in this country, this
[00:26:08] did not happen in a country where ministers in the government give backing
[00:26:11] to rioters and terrorists in parts
[00:26:15] of the Land of Israel, we are also people of the Land of Israel, I established 43
[00:26:19] settlements in the Land of Israel, I have, I was a fighter,
[00:26:22] I was a paratrooper, I fought in the wars of Israel, I cannot consider
[00:26:26] myself a traitor, but they consider me a traitor because I think
[00:26:30] differently, I think in the way of.
[00:26:33] I think in the way of peace, I don't think in the way they lead
[00:26:36] us, and my opinion, my
[00:26:39] position, people, this becomes, it was then
[00:26:43] illegitimate, they also made Yitzhak Rabin illegitimate.
[00:26:47] Let's talk, you know, I'm currently editing a series about Aryeh Deri
[00:26:50] that will be broadcast soon here on Kan 11, you were interviewed for
[00:26:54] this series too, ah, do you find any
[00:26:58] resemblance between him and today's leaders
[00:27:01] and. You know, we see
[00:27:04] how leaders behave today, how they behaved
[00:27:07] then. Do you identify any resemblance? No
[00:27:10] resemblance. I will also tell you what resemblance I found. For example,
[00:27:14] for example, the attitude of Yitzhak Rabin towards the judicial system
[00:27:18] was not very different from the attitude of today's leaders towards the judicial
[00:27:21] system, meaning he also really didn't like the prosecution, spoke
[00:27:25] in very, very harsh words about State Prosecutor Dorit Beinisch, about the Attorney
[00:27:29] General, about Supreme Court Justice Aharon Barak. He even quite
[00:27:33] hated them, one could say.
[00:27:35] Listen, you can go back to that, I also told you in
[00:27:39] the interview, the decision of the Supreme Court
[00:27:43] to disrupt in a way, to politically disrupt, not
[00:27:46] legally, politically, the work of Yitzhak
[00:27:49] Rabin's government, an elected government, I told
[00:27:52] you, Yitzhak Rabin wanted to do, and did,
[00:27:56] a mini-national unity government, Aryeh Deri of
[00:27:59] then is not the Aryeh Deri of today, Aryeh Deri of then was. By the way,
[00:28:09] even then they also listened to Rabbi Schach no less than
[00:28:13] Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, they are connected to Degel HaTorah, if
[00:28:17] Degel HaTorah joins the government, I think it will be very difficult for them to be outside
[00:28:20] the government. If you are talking about current events, there
[00:28:24] were phenomena that existed then, today we are in
[00:28:28] a different place from Yitzhak Rabin.
[00:28:32] A judgment that caused him to be a lame duck, caused him
[00:28:36] in a way that was not not not orderly, they did not change
[00:28:39] the law, but rather a ruling that disrupted his
[00:28:42] government, so because Deri was forced to resign, and that is already, of course, part
[00:28:46] of history. I wonder what your opinion is on the possibility
[00:28:49] that is floating in the air these days
[00:28:52] that Gantz of the change bloc will form a government
[00:28:56] with the support of which of the Haredi parties, and this
[00:28:59] in return for a variation on the law.
[00:29:13] from the terrible thing that has been happening to us for four years, I wish we would get rid of it. If
[00:29:17] a government is formed, if a government is formed
[00:29:19] under, I am sure
[00:29:22] there will be priorities, in commitments, I want, I want Shimon
[00:29:25] to take this, I think that Gantz will not be able to form a government, so that's it, I want
[00:29:29] to ask you. I want to continue, to continue Leah to the follow-up
[00:29:33] question, and maybe it's not so fair and maybe it's a bit
[00:29:36] hypothetical or very hypothetical, but since Rabin is not
[00:29:39] here, there's no choice but to ask people who were close to him and knew him
[00:29:42] well, if Yitzhak Rabin were in Gadi Eisenkot's position
[00:29:45] today, from your acquaintance with him, how would he have
[00:29:48] acted? Would he have formed a government at all costs? Ah, he also
[00:29:52] did, you remember, he would have formed a government even with the support of the Arabs
[00:29:56] from outside, clearly yes, clearly yes, he would have
[00:29:59] formed a government even, even, ah. While guaranteeing continued draft dodging, which is
[00:30:02] a ticket that parties campaigned on, really not, he would have found, he would have, you didn't say at all
[00:30:06] costs? So I'm checking, at all costs, at all costs, I'm talking about his
[00:30:10] priority, I'm sure of it because I know him, I knew him, his priority
[00:30:14] was first of all to get rid of this government, to get rid of this
[00:30:17] government and then to find all possible
[00:30:21] ways to form a government, to form
[00:30:25] a coalition, and even at the cost of
[00:30:29] moving in stages, even at the cost of moving slowly. He
[00:30:32] also, look, he enacted a basic
[00:30:36] law at the time, he enacted the meat
[00:30:39] law, if you forget, we really weren't,
[00:30:41] let's say we weren't, we didn't eat kosher all our lives, and he
[00:30:45] enacted the meat law, meaning he was, you say he would do everything to
[00:30:48] form a government. How much does Gadi Eisenkot in his conduct now, since the elections,
[00:30:52] remind you of Yitzhak Rabin? Yitzhak Rabin was
[00:30:55] more experienced, excuse me, Yitzhak Rabin
[00:30:59] was, excuse me. Yitzhak Rabin was a more experienced man who
[00:31:03] started the government in '92, he had
[00:31:06] an agenda, he had a work plan, there was a plan to change
[00:31:09] national priorities, and he was willing to pay a price for that.
[00:31:13] Gadi Eisenkot needs to learn from that, simply to learn from what happened then.
[00:31:16] Yitzhak Rabin formed a government or
[00:31:20] formed the framework for a coalition, it was
[00:31:23] 56-44, plus 12 of Meretz, plus
[00:31:27] five Arab Knesset members. The Arabs.
[00:31:30] So they were only five Knesset members.
[00:31:34] They were only four-point something percent of the Knesset. Today,
[00:31:37] the Arabs are 18% of the Knesset. So they were 4.5%
[00:31:41] of the Knesset were Arabs. They joined, they didn't join.'
[00:31:45] government, they weren't, they weren't, held
[00:31:48] positions, but there was an agreement with them for a blocking
[00:31:50] bloc, and there was a blocking bloc and then
[00:31:54] Shas negotiated and joined the government,
[00:31:57] and the Arabs were always in the Knesset as a support, what
[00:32:00] is called, as assistance, assistance
[00:32:03] for the existence of the government, they didn't decide anything, they didn't hold
[00:32:07] security positions, they weren't on a subcommittee of the Foreign Affairs
[00:32:10] and Defense Committee, they did their work as they wanted to do
[00:32:14] the work. And they weren't active partners, they were quiet
[00:32:17] partners. Shimon Sheves, who was the Director General
[00:32:21] of the Prime Minister's Office during the time of Yitzhak
[00:32:23] Rabin, and one of the people closest to him in the 31st
[00:32:27] anniversary of Rabin's assassination.
[00:32:36] Here in a special commemoration project
[00:32:39] for the fallen and murdered in the Iron
[00:32:42] Swords War. Shlomo Manzo. Born in Iraq in
[00:32:46] 1938, he was the eldest son in a family
[00:32:50] of six children. In Iraq he was called Asad, which means
[00:32:54] the happiest. When he was
[00:32:56] 13, Shlomo and his family immigrated to Israel, after
[00:33:00] they had experienced the Farhud, the pogrom against the Jews of Baghdad. At 15
[00:33:04] he arrived at Kibbutz Kissufim and there
[00:33:06] he fell in love, both with kibbutz life and
[00:33:09] with Mazal, his future wife. Over the years
[00:33:12] he worked in the chicken coop and in the local factory. And mainly he repaired with his golden
[00:33:16] hands everything that needed fixing in the kibbutz. Shlomo
[00:33:20] loved to help and saw it as his life's
[00:33:23] mission. He lovingly nurtured his special
[00:33:26] garden, and his family, his wife,
[00:33:30] his five children, and 12 grandchildren.
[00:33:33] On the evening of October 7th, the book "The Shark," the prophet of a terrible
[00:33:37] future, the cliché of Hamas people to Israel, was lying next to his bed.
[00:33:41] Shlomo was abducted from his home unharmed, at the age of 80.
[00:33:46] The oldest captive, and later murdered
[00:33:49] in Gaza. His body was returned about a year and a half later.
[00:33:53] His family and kibbutz members remember him with love
[00:33:56] and longing.
[00:34:00] All the best to you, I love you very much, I wish you
[00:34:03] much happiness, health, contentment, hugs
[00:34:07] and kisses. Unforgettable, remembering Shlomo Mansour,
[00:34:10] may his memory
[00:34:12] be a blessing.
[00:34:15] This is News on Channel B. We'll be
[00:34:18] right back.
[00:34:22] Hello, I'm Yoav Tzafir, I don't know if you know, I started
[00:34:25] in Comedistor, Charatzufim, in Eurovision and also
[00:34:29] "The Next Star". To humiliate yourself for my pleasure alone, can you do that, Mr.
[00:34:32] Director?
[00:34:37] Go.
[00:34:50] I don't understand what I'm seeing, a lack of understanding of what's really happening? This
[00:34:53] is really a combination of
[00:34:55] the perception. This truth must
[00:34:58] come out.
[00:35:04] One of them simply cocks the weapon and opens fire on our
[00:35:08] forces.
[00:35:11] They are the head, they are guilty. There are many guilty parties on October 7th.
[00:35:15] I don't think the High Court is one
[00:35:16] of them.
[00:35:19] I haven't seen anything like this, I haven't heard such
[00:35:21] stories.
[00:35:28] I very much hope that the Israeli public will believe
[00:35:32] the truth and not follow the lie.
[00:35:35] Real time, coming soon,
[00:35:39] on Channel 11 and Channel
[00:35:49] Frankenthal, Yitzhak Frankenthal, good
[00:35:52] morning, Yitzhak Frankenthal, it was written Moshe, I apologize, father
[00:35:56] of Arik who was kidnapped and murdered
[00:35:59] by Hamas 32 years ago
[00:36:02] after he hitched a ride at the
[00:36:06] Re'im junction, and now
[00:36:09] you are fighting for the participation of Arab parties
[00:36:12] in the government.
[00:36:15] My struggle is generally in a
[00:36:18] principled way, yes, that it is impossible to generalize against
[00:36:22] Israeli Arabs, because generalization is terrible
[00:36:25] and today, there is hatred here. Foreigners, in complete contradiction to what
[00:36:29] is written in the Torah, in the Torah there are three times about
[00:36:32] love, and one of them is "love the stranger,"
[00:36:36] for you were strangers in the land of Egypt, the second is "love
[00:36:39] your neighbor as yourself," and the third "love the Lord
[00:36:42] your God," meaning, there is a matter here of
[00:36:46] an obligation to love the strangers, and look
[00:36:50] how we treat them. So it's true
[00:36:53] that there are some among them who are lawbreakers, but they are a
[00:36:56] minority. Why generalize? Yitzhak, you
[00:37:00] know, your position, we're not just talking this morning, because
[00:37:03] your position is not trivial. You know, we saw many
[00:37:06] people whose positions in recent years
[00:37:10] were, let's say, left-wing positions,
[00:37:12] and made some shift because
[00:37:16] of the great tragedy of October 7th and what happened
[00:37:19] afterwards, and things of that nature, and you
[00:37:23] as a victim of nationalist terrorism
[00:37:28] come and say this is absolutely not the event and Israeli Arabs are not part of
[00:37:31] this? A. They are not part of it.
[00:37:35] B. It's impossible as I said to generalize.
[00:37:38] There are indeed among
[00:37:42] Arabs in general, yes, there are among Arabs
[00:37:45] those who are lawbreakers and terrorists, but this is a
[00:37:49] tiny minority. It's impossible to come and say, yes, that we will not
[00:37:52] sit with Israeli Arabs in the Knesset or
[00:37:55] in the government because of... Leave it,
[00:37:59] this is discrimination, truly racial discrimination,
[00:38:01] and that we as the Jewish state
[00:38:05] will fall into the historical trash bin of racial laws. Where have we come to,
[00:38:09] Lord of the Universe? And therefore I
[00:38:12] call to stop this whole issue of
[00:38:15] generalization and because of the generalization to come and say we are
[00:38:19] not willing to sit with Israeli Arabs
[00:38:22] and in the government of Israel, it cannot be. You know there are arguments
[00:38:26] and arguments and arguments. Now in the television studios and not only outside
[00:38:29] them, they simply reflect what is happening in the public. Is
[00:38:32] it
[00:38:34] avoidance by people from wanting to involve the Arab parties
[00:38:38] racism or is it a legitimate fear
[00:38:42] after October 7th from people there
[00:38:45] some of whom naturally identify with their Palestinian
[00:38:48] brethren? How do you see things? I'll tell
[00:38:52] you, first of all, your main word is the word
[00:38:55] "fear", yes. There is fear
[00:38:58] in Israel of making peace,
[00:39:01] there is fear that God forbid, if we make
[00:39:05] peace, we will have to recognize a Palestinian
[00:39:08] state, and then Lord of the Universe a terrible
[00:39:11] disaster will happen, we will have to make territorial
[00:39:14] concessions, and instead of seeing in the land
[00:39:17] of Israel, the holy land, which is
[00:39:21] nonsense and stupidity, yes, because there is no holiness
[00:39:25] in the land, unless it is sanctified. And unfortunately, it is not
[00:39:28] sanctified in the way we are going but rather desecrated
[00:39:32] this land, yes, so to leave
[00:39:35] these slogans with the fear, yes, there is indeed deep
[00:39:39] fear, so we really need to address the issue of
[00:39:42] fear, but to come because of that, to come and say
[00:39:45] we will not sit with them and will not make peace with them, that
[00:39:49] God forbid, then we are dooming ourselves to another
[00:39:52] many decades of bloodshed on both
[00:39:56] sides. I want to talk to you personally, was it always
[00:40:00] like this for you immediately after the, I'm asking immediately after the murder of
[00:40:03] your son, or did you go through a process? I'm essentially asking you how
[00:40:07] you bridged the lack of trust that certainly
[00:40:11] arose in you after your son was murdered by Palestinian terrorists.
[00:40:14] So I'll tell you, it's a great question and the answer is very
[00:40:17] in the Yom Kippur War
[00:40:21] in 1973,
[00:40:23] and I saw the tragedy of that war, and you knew
[00:40:27] that it was possible to make peace based on what
[00:40:31] the envoy Gunnar Jarring offered
[00:40:34] to the Israeli government, which Golda Meir rejected, and only
[00:40:38] later, when Sadat came to Israel, yes, then suddenly
[00:40:42] eyes opened
[00:40:44] and we made peace with Egypt. So why was there a need
[00:40:47] for a war in which over 3,000 people died? The same
[00:40:51] with Jordan, with Jordan at the time, Hussein came and said
[00:40:55] "kill the Jews."
[00:41:02] What I'm asking is that since the Yom Kippur War, there was the murder of your son, which is the event of
[00:41:06] your life, surely, and the question is if it
[00:41:09] didn't move your dial to the other extreme and how
[00:41:13] did you go through the process since the murder? The answer is
[00:41:16] very, very simple. The murder of my son led
[00:41:20] me to the conclusion that all my fear
[00:41:24] that we are sacrificing our strength
[00:41:27] and sacrificing our basic morality out of
[00:41:31] fear and lack of courage, has now come true for me too. I
[00:41:34] lost Arik, not because of the Palestinians, I lost
[00:41:38] Arik because there is no peace. And those people
[00:41:42] who think they lost their son and therefore
[00:41:45] need revenge and so on and so forth, revenge will not bring their children
[00:41:49] back. The only thing that can prevent further
[00:41:52] loss is if we are wise and
[00:41:55] discerning enough to make peace. And I'll tell you another
[00:41:59] thing, Israeli Arabs, if they are in the government, they can
[00:42:03] be a wonderful bridge to achieving
[00:42:05] peace, but there is fear, because if we reach peace, we will have to make.
[00:42:40] With a straightforward, honest and moral person, with integrity
[00:42:43] and humility, yes,
[00:42:46] it will be possible to achieve many things that we haven't achieved
[00:42:49] until today. Yitzhak Frankenthal, father of Arik
[00:42:53] who was abducted and murdered by Hamas more than 32 years ago,
[00:42:56] is fighting for the inclusion of Arab parties
[00:43:04] the end of the hour, what is more suitable
[00:43:08] than to start? A farewell tour, good
[00:43:11] morning to Knesset Member Nissim Vaturi, still a Knesset
[00:43:49] life? The Knesset is not life.
[00:43:52] Oh, it's a mission, I did it for four years,
[00:43:55] there were all sorts of things
[00:43:58] there, it was nice, I did a lot
[00:44:00] of legislation. Uh, that's it, to go back
[00:44:04] to work in construction, building the country. What will you miss the most?
[00:44:07] What will you miss the most?
[00:44:11] Really, legislation. Maybe a little, but I don't
[00:44:15] think there's anything specific that offends me so much
[00:44:18] there. What about the honor? Uh, listen, you Knesset members, it's
[00:44:22] a very thankless job, you know.
[00:44:25] Uh, that means you're working for the public, on one side
[00:44:29] they attack, on the other side, you know, they hug a little more, but still, I don't think there's
[00:44:33] a job that is so thankless. Did you have friends
[00:44:37] in the Knesset? Yes, I'm a friend of everyone,
[00:44:41] always. No, not everyone, you can't be friends with everyone, almost, whoever
[00:44:44] is friends with everyone, is usually friends with no one. Who will you miss
[00:44:47] the most? I'll miss,
[00:44:50] uh, I don't know, friends from work, there are those
[00:44:54] from other factions perhaps, uh, all
[00:44:57] sorts, from other factions, let's, let's talk about it,
[00:45:01] and if you can find us maybe someone, you know, from another
[00:45:04] camp, then even better, that they haven't said until today, Michael Biton,
[00:45:08] like. They don't say his name, he was everyone's friend,
[00:45:11] yes, yes, there are those
[00:45:14] who come to work, you work with them, you come to do things, and if someone is
[00:45:18] effective in doing things, that's fine, not just looking
[00:45:21] to argue or shout and misbehave and so on. Knesset Member
[00:45:24] Vaturi, you competed in the primaries, meaning you wanted
[00:45:28] to be in the Knesset that will be sworn in
[00:45:31] soon, is there disappointment from the fact that
[00:45:34] you came in 33rd place? Disappointment
[00:45:37] from the result, not from the result of the
[00:45:40] elections themselves, yes, they were too hard on me, I don't want to talk about it, but because I'm for
[00:45:44] more quiet now, less politics, more talking about
[00:45:48] unity, these are interesting things, if, say, the government is sworn in
[00:45:51] and everyone starts doing Norwegian and they come
[00:45:54] and say, Nissim come back, please, no, I
[00:45:57] retired, I retired from the list too, I wanted
[00:46:01] to finish nicely in the place I was in, without all the, you know, there were many reserved spots
[00:46:05] and all sorts of things, I reached almost 50th place, yes, after
[00:46:08] reserved spots, and whoever lost in the mechanism.
[00:46:12] In this interview, which is about your retirement, you sound much calmer
[00:46:16] than you were as a Knesset member, and I must say that as a Knesset
[00:46:19] member, Nissim, let's put a headline, Nissim Vaturi is reconciled, yes, no, you, you
[00:46:23] were often perceived, not in your favor, perhaps you enjoyed
[00:46:26] it, I have no idea, as some sort of anecdote, some kind of clown,
[00:46:30] a provocateur, one of those who are brought up, you know, to
[00:46:34] make noise and give some quote that will cause
[00:46:38] trouble. Would you have managed things differently, would you have managed
[00:46:42] your term in a different way? It's possible, look at the
[00:46:45] election results as well, where you see that 19
[00:46:48] mandates for the side that wants. But
[00:46:57] I think the time has come for national unity within the people of Israel, more
[00:47:01] love, less hatred, yes, I
[00:47:04] think you also miscalculated me, meaning you took me in such a
[00:47:08] wrong way. What does that mean?
[00:47:11] Uh, uh, I don't think I'm a provocateur, I don't think I'm
[00:47:15] yes, things burned in me very much. I was in a position and I took it with full
[00:47:18] seriousness. So it's possible that, say, you chose to express yourself sometimes in
[00:47:22] an extreme way, maybe because those are the rules of the game, maybe because that's how you get
[00:47:26] attention, in the back benches of the Knesset that are sometimes
[00:47:30] gray. I don't know if I was in the back, I was in the front
[00:47:34] row almost before the government table, but that's not related. I'll tell
[00:47:37] you, I simply think that we don't
[00:47:41] always understand reality correctly, yes.
[00:47:44] There is a problem here, understand, there is, we are in the midst of, you see the American
[00:47:47] reactions, suddenly Democrats, no, sorry,
[00:47:51] Republicans, no. Exactly what we thought, suddenly you see people talking about the attitude
[00:47:54] towards Israel, anti-Semitism exists everywhere. And the Arabs
[00:47:58] around us, yes, there are those who want to eliminate the state
[00:48:01] of Israel, and therefore I say that we need to wake up, our leaders
[00:48:05] and leadership need to wake up from all
[00:48:07] sides.
[00:48:10] No, no, because everyone no, but I ask you, I ask you, leave the leadership, I
[00:48:14] ask you about your soul-searching about your term when you look back
[00:48:18] and you say to yourself, Nissim, maybe I should have acted
[00:48:21] a little differently. So what would you do differently today if you were re-elected
[00:48:25] to the Knesset now, or what advice do you give to the new Knesset member
[00:48:29] from the Likud who entered the Knesset? Let me explain
[00:48:31] something to you, I'll surprise you, I don't like arguments, I don't like debates, I don't like it when people talk
[00:48:35] about me badly, but I
[00:48:38] think that there are things that are required by reality, to fight against those who call
[00:48:42] for the destruction of the state of Israel, that's legitimate,
[00:48:45] but leave this absolute dirty work to someone
[00:48:48] else. New people have come, I wish them success, really, not
[00:48:51] ironically. Let them do the work, I hope they do it properly.
[00:48:55] Israel has many challenges,
[00:48:58] yes, it's not over. Bibi versus Eisenkot, yes,
[00:49:01] which is the only connection that can be suitable from a Zionist
[00:49:04] perspective, who believe in the State of Israel and the army,
[00:49:08] in the IDF, so Prime Minister Netanyahu, if this, if this is the only
[00:49:11] connection, Prime Minister Netanyahu, in your opinion, should be
[00:49:15] open to the possibility that Eisenkot might be first in a rotation
[00:49:18] for prime minister? I don't think that this argument, I think that
[00:49:22] there are good arrangements, I won't mention them here, yes, that I estimate
[00:49:26] will happen, but that's not the argument, that's
[00:49:29] the issue, you understand what I'm talking about, that's not the problem
[00:49:32] who's first and who will win the elections, won't win the elections, there's a people
[00:49:36] to manage, there's a people that needs to be led with strong
[00:49:39] leadership because of the challenges around
[00:49:41] us, and we have many challenges, yes, both internally and
[00:49:45] externally, you know, Judea and Samaria, what do we do, what do we do at all,
[00:49:49] yes, suddenly anti-Semitism in the world, eventually it reaches
[00:49:52] governments as well, you see what's happening in France and Italy, and people still
[00:49:55] realize what's happening to them, yes, in the United States there's a lot
[00:49:59] of anti-Semitism, we need to understand what's happening, yes, we are in
[00:50:03] a very difficult period, which was the eve of
[00:50:06] the 40s. You think that being strong together and not
[00:50:10] fighting internally, we have a lot to do outside, outside. Do you think, by the way,
[00:50:14] that your statements, say in November 23, to burn Gaza, now
[00:50:18] in January 24, there are no innocent people in Gaza, all
[00:50:21] these things caused a backlash from the Arab
[00:50:25] public? I never said there are no innocent people, I'll tell you why? Because I think
[00:50:29] that children should not be harmed, still like the army, I, I was
[00:50:32] a soldier, of course, my four children serve in the army, also because of that I tried
[00:50:36] not to attack the commanders of the IDF, I said I don't attack the commanders of my children,
[00:50:39] and I think that, yes, but
[00:50:43] you called to burn Gaza, for example. Not to burn
[00:50:46] Gaza, that's in terms of burning, they burned people.
[00:50:49] I said to burn the buildings, to burn the neighborhoods there. I
[00:50:53] don't think I was wrong in that, because it was important to also push
[00:50:56] our soldiers forward a bit. Understand that it was a very difficult
[00:51:00] situation, and we just sat and looked at everyone outside. So Nissim Vaturi
[00:51:03] got up and said that we need to be very strong. How to burn, you know, I
[00:51:07] came from football, I also played in the past, you won't believe it. And then they say burn the
[00:51:11] field, what does that mean? It wasn't accepted that the players should take matches and burn the grass, yes.
[00:51:57] member Nissim Vaturi, thank you very much.
[00:52:01] Shabbat Shalom, thank you very much and good luck.
[00:55:16] Hello, it's 11 o'clock and we have a news update. At the President's
[00:55:19] Residence in Jerusalem, the round of consultations with
[00:55:23] representatives of the factions elected to the Knesset regarding the task of forming
[00:55:26] the government resumed today. This is the second day of talks, Technical Aaron is there
[00:55:30] now.
[00:55:33] Yes, Roni, hello, and a short while ago. The President's consultation with
[00:55:36] the representatives of the Democratic party is starting here right now.
[00:55:40] President Herzog is expected to receive immediately the recommendation for the candidate
[00:55:44] to form the government. Of course, the candidate will be
[00:55:46] Gadi Eisenkot. We saw a short while ago the members of
[00:55:50] Otzma Yehudit leaving the President's Residence after
[00:55:53] they came here to recommend, as expected, Prime Minister
[00:55:56] Netanyahu. And Roni, the members of Otzma Yehudit who come to...