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[00:01:59] Hello everyone. Well, in a moment it will be seven on another evening of
[00:02:02] classic Israeli chaos. At the President's Residence, in court, and also
[00:02:06] on the stock exchange. We will try to cover all these arenas,
[00:02:09] and whatever else time allows. Here beside me tonight
[00:02:13] are Michal Oren, Einat Wilf, Yair Ettinger, our commentators. Soon
[00:02:16] Mazal Mualem will also be with us, and we are
[00:02:19] rushing to the President's Residence, where the parade of recommenders,
[00:02:23] which is expected to end soon, has been going on for at least two
[00:02:26] or three hours. Shahar Glick, our political correspondent, hello.
[00:02:31] Hello, yes, about two hours and a bit, I think, no more, no need
[00:02:35] to exaggerate, but yes, exactly.
[00:02:38] Exactly, there are still two factions that have not yet come to the president
[00:02:42] to say who they recommend, and these are the two main factions, what
[00:02:45] are called the people themselves, Gadi
[00:02:48] Eisenkot's party, the Yishar party, and also the Likud faction that will come after them. They
[00:02:52] are the only ones who have not yet told the president who they recommend, but it is clear
[00:02:55] to all of us,
[00:02:57] Shahar, in the last few minutes. What's happening
[00:03:01] there with you at the President's Residence, uh,
[00:03:04] what could perhaps be called the "Scorpion Speech"
[00:03:08] by the representative of the Together party? By the way, as a Scorpio,
[00:03:12] I might have been slightly offended. Tell us what
[00:03:16] leads to the dynamic in which MK Merav Cohen says
[00:03:19] these things.
[00:03:21] Yes, look, the president is not just looking and asking people who
[00:03:25] they recommend, because that can be done by SMS and the math can be done
[00:03:29] and it's not needed. Two days for that, four minutes are enough to make sure everyone sends.
[00:03:33] The president is asking complex questions here to those representatives, each one
[00:03:36] his complex question. I think he is mainly trying to illustrate to us, the public,
[00:03:40] how, although there will be 67 recommenders for Eisenkot, Israel
[00:03:44] is actually heading for a dead end in this event, and therefore in this
[00:03:47] event, everyone who enters, he asks them the questions that challenge them, and when the people
[00:03:51] of the Together party enter, he asks the president's advisor, what was Ohana, Moreno,
[00:03:55] the widow of Emmanuel Moreno, whom we know as an activist for unity, she asks
[00:03:59] them, tell me. You are talking all the time about agreements and common
[00:04:02] spaces, but maybe it's better not to cross the agreements but
[00:04:05] to go to whoever is closer to you, hinting really at a unity government with the current
[00:04:09] coalition, asking them on their behalf, what is actually
[00:04:12] your opinion on this? MK Merav Cohen tells her what
[00:04:16] is called the parable of the scorpion, about the scorpion that climbed on the frog to
[00:04:19] cross the river, and in the middle of the river it stings her and she asks why and it tells
[00:04:23] her it's my nature, she says, we entered
[00:04:26] a government, a unity government with Netanyahu, at the time I was with...
[00:04:32] I don't do business with scorpions, she says the metaphor, I don't need to explain the meaning to you, everyone knows.
[00:04:37] Meaning, she completely rejects this story. Now
[00:04:40] MK Liran Husser Ben Horin is sitting there for another
[00:04:43] four days, and when she is asked about this, with
[00:04:47] whom they would sit, she again mentions only parties
[00:04:50] that can recognize the State of Israel as a Jewish
[00:04:54] and democratic state. This is getting a bit close to Lieberman's line of sticking
[00:04:57] to election promises even after the elections. But they don't explicitly talk
[00:05:01] about a minority government, whether they reject it as Lieberman said
[00:05:05] unequivocally, but again I think this exacerbates the deadlock
[00:05:09] we are in. To please themselves. Israel,
[00:05:12] yes, and the situation is becoming more
[00:05:16] and more complicated.
[00:05:18] Yes, so let's just say, in terms of what happens next, after the two of them arrive at Gadi's,
[00:05:22] there will be 67 recommenders in total, 46 for Netanyahu.
[00:05:26] It's clear who will get the mandate. The president has a week to do it, he will probably do it even before
[00:05:30] then, even in the coming day, maybe. The president is expected to task
[00:05:33] Gantz with this mission, and he has 28 days,
[00:05:36] perhaps with an extension, to try and form a government within this complex
[00:05:40] sudoku that his partners tried to build for him. And just
[00:05:43] a word, Shahar, about what's happening in the Knesset. Will Amir
[00:05:47] Ohana, MK Ohana, the man in
[00:05:50] the ultra-Orthodox parties, those who claimed that supporting his appointment as
[00:05:54] Speaker of the Knesset is what cost them public
[00:05:57] support, will he soon have to leave
[00:06:00] the office?
[00:06:03] Yes, so it seems so, but I'll add a small asterisk here.
[00:06:07] Today, the outgoing opposition factions are all sending a letter
[00:06:10] to Amir Ohana, demanding to convene the Knesset. He already said in the past that if
[00:06:13] 61 Knesset members demand it from him, he will do
[00:06:17] it, and this is in accordance with the High Court's ruling, and therefore next
[00:06:21] week, a vote is expected to take place, not sure if it will really be on Tuesday or if he has another
[00:06:24] week to convene the Knesset, but actually very soon, this
[00:06:28] vote for the new Speaker of the Knesset is expected to take place.
[00:06:31] The problem is that all the opposition factions agree that a Speaker of the Knesset needs to be replaced,
[00:06:35] but they don't agree on the candidate, on who will be in Ohana's place,
[00:06:39] and this is not a vote for removal, it's a vote for appointment, and if they don't reach
[00:06:42] an agreement, then the coalition will win in this event. There's a dispute between Gantz's Yishar party
[00:06:46] and Bennett and Lapid's Together party, which Lieberman also joins. Each one wants this
[00:06:49] appointment of the Speaker of the Knesset to be theirs, because it's very significant
[00:06:53] for the future possibilities for a government, and therefore,
[00:06:56] only if they manage to reach agreements this week, maybe a week and a half,
[00:07:00] then indeed another Speaker of the Knesset will be appointed, and if not, Ohana will have to remain
[00:07:04] in his position, if you want. Their first test
[00:07:07] in their ability to function as a bloc, Shahar Glick, if by any chance he comes.
[00:07:10] Of course, we're keeping a close eye
[00:07:21] to see if it happens with great curiosity.
[00:07:25] Okay, so MK Merav
[00:07:28] Cohen's "Scorpion Speech" is really just
[00:07:31] one of many statements heard in the past
[00:07:34] few days at the President's Residence. The difficult questions that the President
[00:07:38] and his staff pose to the party representatives who come to the President's Residence face difficult questions.
[00:07:43] Let's see how difficult these questions
[00:07:44] were.
[00:07:54] We are at war with Hamas, as a criminal
[00:07:57] terrorist organization, an unequivocal
[00:08:00] enemy. What, what, what do you say about that? Do
[00:08:04] you consider Hamas a terrorist organization? That's the whole debate
[00:08:07] about dying and not enlisting. This is a very
[00:08:10] deep issue. Let's
[00:08:13] count. The House of Israel, the students, went to war. This is a sentence that we
[00:08:16] did not say, and what do you say about it? You cannot ignore
[00:08:20] the fact that Netanyahu and the Likud won 27
[00:08:23] seats, a quarter of the country's population. Mr.
[00:08:27] President, and therefore the question arises,
[00:08:29] okay, all these speeches, I always ask myself
[00:08:33] what they will do after Netanyahu retires, what will be, what was the campaign
[00:08:37] of the parties? Do you see any possibility of having
[00:08:41] a government where these issues come up within two minutes
[00:08:45] and paralyze a government? We are not
[00:08:48] against Netanyahu. We I'm only talking, meaning, what
[00:08:51] I want to say is, but what I'm telling you,
[00:08:55] sirs, what if there's a significant security
[00:08:58] campaign, Iran, Hamas, things of that
[00:09:01] sort, you withdraw, you stop your support? How is
[00:09:05] that going to be? These are the questions being asked. I ask everyone difficult
[00:09:09] questions. I ask everyone questions. Einat, you saw some
[00:09:12] of the images from the President's Residence these days, uh, yes,
[00:09:16] absolutely. He basically confronts
[00:09:19] each party, and in doing so, he does his job well
[00:09:22] as president. He confronts each party with the question that the public
[00:09:26] asks regarding its ability to form
[00:09:29] a government, to be part
[00:09:33] of a coalition. I think he also tried
[00:09:36] in a way to help.
[00:09:39] He tried to help everyone in a way by
[00:09:42] giving an opportunity, for example, to Ra'am to say
[00:09:46] that Hamas is a terrorist organization in his eyes,
[00:09:49] what is called the bare minimum, basic, and then
[00:09:53] for example, to open the way for cooperation. They did
[00:09:56] not take advantage of this opportunity. Towards the ultra-Orthodox parties, he gave them
[00:10:00] the opportunity to show some
[00:10:04] understanding that for three years, for three
[00:10:07] years, people have been fighting and they stand
[00:10:10] by and not. Meaning, I think he
[00:10:14] actually showed how entrenched
[00:10:17] every step is and how difficult it's going to be. Look, but we constantly, on all sorts
[00:10:21] of occasions, even when he gives
[00:10:25] interviews and when he stands before the cameras, Herzog constantly tries to make it clear
[00:10:29] that he is in a state role, not in a political role.
[00:10:32] The question is, if in the end, his choice of questions
[00:10:36] doesn't create a situation where he takes on a role, his insistence on trying
[00:10:40] to push everyone towards unity, for example. Uh, I think
[00:10:43] he sees this as something presidential. In this
[00:10:46] case, I think he is at least right that
[00:10:49] the right and logical
[00:10:52] thing for the State of Israel, given the challenges, is a
[00:10:56] central Zionist government where many people climb
[00:10:59] down from their trees, allowing for the first time to include
[00:11:03] both the ultra-Orthodox and the Arabs in the long term under
[00:11:06] the Zionist ethos, to dismantle the ghettos,
[00:11:09] to dismantle the autonomies, both Arab and
[00:11:13] ultra-Orthodox, and it may be that we are at the last moment
[00:11:16] when the Zionist elements can still cooperate before
[00:11:20] the Arab and ultra-Orthodox elements cooperate against
[00:11:23] Zionism and as a state.
[00:11:29] that we are at the last moment where the Zionist elements can cooperate with
[00:11:33] each other. What do you think, indeed? I wish. We are facing
[00:11:36] a tsunami of ultimatums, especially from the United States. And here I saw this
[00:11:39] clip with the President asking Mansour Abbas if he is willing
[00:11:43] to recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization, and he gets confused, he can't
[00:11:47] say yes. We need to broadcast this to the whole world. In the world, we are
[00:11:50] accused again of apartheid, that the Arabs
[00:11:53] won so many seats and we don't accept them
[00:11:57] into the government, we are a racist country. But I ask Americans, I can
[00:12:00] broadcast this and say to Americans, okay, you want someone, an American
[00:12:04] cabinet member who recognizes Al-Qaeda as a legitimate
[00:12:07] organization? But you know, some said that precisely
[00:12:11] the fact that the Arab parties brought 19 seats, which is an unprecedented
[00:12:14] figure, shakes the State of Israel so much, perhaps it
[00:12:18] actually strengthens Israel's haters and opponents,
[00:12:21] the fact that this immediately causes such a great storm here.
[00:12:55] two or three times to recommendation parades
[00:12:58] like these, uh, and I want us to see together
[00:13:01] a tweet from the CEO of the Democrats party right at the time
[00:13:05] that the party members are sitting in front of the president. Say
[00:13:08] you're voting for Likud without saying you're voting for Likud. He writes
[00:13:11] these things in response to a tweet
[00:13:14] that quoted what Herzog said to the members of the
[00:13:17] Democrats party who came there. It could be
[00:13:21] that the president got lost with the attempt to be statesmanlike towards
[00:13:24] everyone. And it turned out bad, uh, towards everyone? No, I see it differently. I see
[00:13:28] it as another act or another expression of the fact that we
[00:13:32] are falling apart from all our institutions in these
[00:13:35] years. We talk a lot about statesmanship, a president is
[00:13:39] a symbol of governance. They never talked to a president like that. All
[00:13:43] these past years, both the reform and
[00:13:47] these elections and in general the war put
[00:13:50] Herzog in a situation that I think no president before him
[00:13:54] faced. Such a situation. The story with the reform
[00:13:58] also harmed him and also made him identified with both
[00:14:00] camps, by the way. They have a lot of complaints against him, and I
[00:14:04] think that here, a party CEO should
[00:14:07] also be a bit careful. This is just such a breakdown. This is
[00:14:11] a tweet of a tweet on Twitter. Everything is conducted through
[00:14:15] Twitter. And Herzog's biggest
[00:14:19] challenge, he would want to see a unity
[00:14:21] government, uh, a unity government for Herzog. Because
[00:14:25] his father in '84 as president managed to force a unity
[00:14:29] government, one of the best governments in Israel,
[00:14:33] without intending to, because Herzog likes to portray himself as a statesman and not political. He takes
[00:14:36] the most political position. I heard one of the commentators say, and I had
[00:14:40] to agree, the people voted for division.
[00:14:43] The election results are such that people don't want
[00:14:47] to sit together. I don't think the people voted for division. I think
[00:14:51] the people, there's some indecision here, you could call it.
[00:14:55] Division, whoever wants division in the end, there's, Einat talks
[00:14:58] a lot about the Zionist ethos. I think it's a very, very big
[00:15:02] challenge, in general, for the Zionist
[00:15:05] ethos, for our DNA,
[00:15:09] and the ability, if it were possible to bring into
[00:15:12] a party, into a government, where the majority is Zionist,
[00:15:16] also an ultra-Orthodox and Arab party, that would be
[00:15:19] the ultimate thing. But we are not there. I do think
[00:15:22] that we are approaching it.
[00:15:27] Unity is happening now. Maybe something else needs to happen, maybe another election,
[00:15:31] maybe in this way Herzog thinks
[00:15:34] that by exposing everyone, he
[00:15:37] shows us both the difficulty and essentially wants to point the way
[00:15:41] to what he believes should happen. The President is optimistic, according to what you
[00:15:45] say, and those who nevertheless came
[00:15:48] to the President without saying anything, perhaps in an attempt to create
[00:15:52] ambiguity or obfuscation or something of that sort, to keep
[00:15:55] their cards close to their chest and all options open, are the representatives of the United
[00:15:58] Torah Judaism party, who recommended no one,
[00:16:02] recommended no one to form the government, and this is after years of consistent
[00:16:06] support for Netanyahu, Yair. Hello, good evening.
[00:16:09] We heard, you know, over the past few months
[00:16:12] and in general, over the years of the war, the
[00:16:15] ultra-Orthodox parties on various occasions shouting, "Hold us,
[00:16:19] hold us," and "We're not in anyone's pocket," and in the end they stuck
[00:16:23] with Netanyahu all the way. We're saying
[00:16:26] to buy this now, that it's possible they'll sit
[00:16:29] in another government, uh, or before we
[00:16:32] buy it or not, we need to say that United Torah Judaism prepared
[00:16:36] for this moment, for this day, uh, certainly their entire
[00:16:39] election campaign, and probably for the past three
[00:16:42] years. This was exactly it, this was the central
[00:16:46] election promise of United Torah Judaism to its
[00:16:49] voters, to the rabbis, to come and say, "We are not, we are returning
[00:16:52] to be the swing vote, we want to return to be the swing vote, we are not
[00:16:56] in Netanyahu's pocket, despite all the many
[00:16:59] years that have passed, that we were together with
[00:17:03] the right and with Netanyahu in particular, we are not in anyone's pocket, we
[00:17:06] have returned to be political business people." This means whoever gives
[00:17:10] us, we will go with them. So as political business people, because I really heard sentences
[00:17:13] that say, that the agenda now is, "We will get
[00:17:17] a small payment in cash, instead of, like with Netanyahu, big promises but
[00:17:21] on credit, on ice." What can
[00:17:24] this party give,
[00:17:27] say, a bloc headed
[00:17:30] by Gadi Eisenkot? Uh,
[00:17:33] look, besides everything, but the question, but, but, but...
[00:17:40] So what they are saying, what they are saying is, we want to restore
[00:17:44] and fortify the status of Torah students as it
[00:17:47] was before. In one of the formulas that were discussed here, this will be very,
[00:17:51] very difficult. I think that in general, for
[00:17:54] the ultra-Orthodox to go, the ultra-Orthodox, we are currently talking about the Ashkenazim,
[00:17:57] because regarding Shas, it's a completely different story. Uh, for
[00:18:01] United Torah Judaism to go with Eisenkot, first of all, one needs
[00:18:04] to understand, first of all, the situation, if it's not complex enough. First of all, one needs to remember
[00:18:08] who didn't come to the President's Residence today? Porush didn't come today.
[00:18:12] United Torah Judaism today is actually three different parties. That's one
[00:18:16] thing. It's very, very.
[00:18:18] Agudat Yisrael is actually divided into two factions. There's Goldknopf
[00:18:22] on one side and there's Porush, this axis of Porush with the new Stark of
[00:18:26] Belz, who operate together. May God
[00:18:29] help. So Gadi Eisenkot needs to negotiate here with three
[00:18:33] leaders. That's the first thing. The second thing
[00:18:36] is... it's very possible that it will indeed go with small portions, as
[00:18:39] you said. I assume that this is what will be discussed at the table,
[00:18:43] because in order to give the ultra-Orthodox now what
[00:18:46] they want, Gadi Eisenkot will have to, what is it, throw away,
[00:18:49] burn, crush all his election promises, and also
[00:18:52] Bennett's. So it will be very, very difficult. It's possible they'll try to break it down
[00:18:56] in a creative way. Again, for this to happen,
[00:19:00] it's very, very difficult. The ultra-Orthodox will have to get used to a completely
[00:19:03] new reality where they are not at the wheel, with their hands on the wheel.
[00:19:07] They are essentially some kind of secondary partners, maybe external supporters,
[00:19:11] maybe all sorts of proposals that are being discussed, yes,
[00:19:14] in the corridors it's being discussed, and if Gadi Eisenkot really gets
[00:19:18] the mandate to do it, it will be discussed, yes, yes, it will be discussed with great
[00:19:21] fervor.
[00:19:24] Also to say that they are the opposite, they come with much
[00:19:27] harsher demands, you know,
[00:19:30] from Eisenkot's perspective, because they won't want to compromise now,
[00:19:34] they'll want to go backwards, to go backwards.
[00:19:57] It's true that they want a law, but they are still in an excellent bargaining position, they haven't
[00:20:01] had it in a long time. Another thing, another thing, I think
[00:20:04] it's very possible that during this negotiation, their
[00:20:08] price will drop in such a way that they will return
[00:20:11] to Netanyahu, and then Netanyahu will come and give them the offer. That they are
[00:20:15] in the best position, given these circumstances,
[00:20:18] that they could be in? Because essentially they are saying, okay, we'll reveal
[00:20:21] our cards, the masquerade is over. Let's see
[00:20:25] where this leads. Eisenkot really needs to be, this is a negotiation,
[00:20:29] I don't remember such a complicated and complex negotiation.
[00:20:33] He is not politically experienced. Yes. The most experienced people next to him
[00:20:37] to dismantle all these charges, it's really not
[00:20:41] an easy story and it's not just a political story, we are
[00:20:44] in a very, very volatile political and social event.
[00:20:48] And this is the, and this is the heavy burden on him, because
[00:20:51] he needs to face other groups in society, serving
[00:20:55] groups, and explain his choice to exclude them from government. Maybe a unity
[00:20:58] government is possible. Okay, so in a moment we will elaborate on this truly
[00:21:02] insane deadlock with the ultra-Orthodox parties, but I want
[00:21:06] to add another factor to the equation, the man
[00:21:08] who yesterday we were just a step away from his
[00:21:11] abandonment of political life, and somehow by magic, by a miracle,
[00:21:15] members of the Council of Torah Sages.
[00:21:19] Shas chairman
[00:21:24] Aryeh Deri, who had already started to find explanations and blame for why the party collapsed in these
[00:21:27] elections. In a time of war, they took advantage of the fact that we sat
[00:21:30] quietly, they took advantage of the responsibility
[00:21:34] and the mature
[00:21:36] behavior of our representatives who understood that in a time of war we
[00:21:40] need not to divide
[00:21:44] and not to cause
[00:21:46] rifts in the nation, but unfortunately many did things. They
[00:21:50] did terrible things from outside against the movement, against
[00:21:53] its leaders, they tried to divide our spiritual
[00:21:56] leadership, what didn't they try?
[00:21:59] Yair Ettinger, is Shas, which collapsed from 11 to six
[00:22:02] seats, the real victim of this three-year
[00:22:06] war? The real victim, it's hard to talk about it in these
[00:22:10] terms, but still, yes, a party
[00:22:13] that didn't know how to utilize the advantage it
[00:22:17] could have had, maybe it had in the past, that it
[00:22:20] really sits on some seam between ultra-Orthodoxy and
[00:22:24] Israeli society. With Rabbi Ovadia, as much as he was a figure who often
[00:22:27] made negative
[00:22:29] headlines or received criticism, he always knew
[00:22:33] how to sit on that bridge, he always did. It was never in contradiction
[00:22:36] for him. Uh, and here Aryeh Deri,
[00:22:39] 13 years after Rabbi Ovadia's passing, it seems almost impossible
[00:22:43] for him. Aryeh Deri himself, a man who speaks all languages, both
[00:22:46] Israeli and ultra-Orthodox, failed to do it. The election
[00:22:50] campaign didn't help him, it didn't convince
[00:22:53] the public, the public of Shas voters, 100
[00:22:57] thousand votes, almost 100,000 votes, in a place
[00:22:59] where Aryeh Deri could have had an advantage, and by the way, Shas, a party
[00:23:03] that was once an ally of the
[00:23:06] left, a very, very long time ago, yes.
[00:23:09] I will say that from 2009 and especially from 2015, the strongest
[00:23:13] alliance in Israeli politics is between Netanyahu
[00:23:16] and the ultra-Orthodox, where Deri plays a central role.
[00:23:20] Deri is the man who held Netanyahu's government
[00:23:23] together in the turbulent years. If he had
[00:23:26] stepped aside or caused the government to collapse,
[00:23:30] and he could have done that, and he was also challenged and they tried
[00:23:34] to pull him out. He didn't do that, he kept that government
[00:23:37] for him, he maintained that government for him, he was the man who brought Benny
[00:23:41] Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot into the emergency government, he
[00:23:45] is a very important arm of Netanyahu, and I think that yesterday Netanyahu
[00:23:48] breathed a sigh of relief.
[00:24:24] Do you see a scenario where United Torah Judaism really crosses
[00:24:27] the lines? Very difficult, very difficult. This is their
[00:24:31] zone, it's in their nature not to give up all the rights
[00:24:34] and that, but the story is very interesting. I think
[00:24:38] that the population is much more flexible, yes, it can
[00:24:41] go with all sorts of parties, and also part
[00:24:45] of the Shas public is also willing to serve in the army.
[00:24:48] Right, you know. Less and less in recent years,
[00:24:51] but it was shaped, shaped in recent years,
[00:24:55] ideologically as very, very right-wing. It's no secret. Right-wing,
[00:24:59] certainly, also right-wing, and I
[00:25:02] will say another thing, the youth, Netanyahu
[00:25:06] for them is a kind of hero, they identify with him very much, with
[00:25:10] his persecution, with his oppression, with his trial, wherever we touch
[00:25:13] in Bnei Brak, not a single word against Bibi is heard.
[00:25:16] Yes.
[00:25:19] Tell me. Is there any scenario where those who were
[00:25:23] captivated by the covenant of the servants, and some of them
[00:25:27] also crossed from the coalition bloc to the
[00:25:30] opposition bloc in their last election, will be able to tolerate
[00:25:33] the possibility that Eisenkot will give something in cash to the ultra-Orthodox,
[00:25:37] to United Torah Judaism? No, and even before the voters
[00:25:40] themselves, you are talking about people who really,
[00:25:44] for example, like people who voted for us, who really cared more
[00:25:47] about the "what" than the "who." They cared more about the issue of
[00:25:51] service. They didn't cross the lines, they went
[00:25:54] to a place between the blocs. Uh, the
[00:25:57] other bloc was defined mainly by the "who," by its desire to bring
[00:26:01] down Netanyahu, and there are people who are willing to pay
[00:26:04] a price, but as a society,
[00:26:08] not only will it not be acceptable, the ultra-Orthodox themselves are not
[00:26:11] able to compromise, in this sense, they are not reading
[00:26:15] the moment. For three years they have not been reading the moment. They
[00:26:18] are used to thinking, uh, we will return to be the swing vote as
[00:26:22] it was, but it's not as it was, something changed on
[00:26:25] October 7th. Everyone saw
[00:26:29] that you didn't run to the front, you didn't
[00:26:31] help. And for three years
[00:26:34] you sat in the coalition, some even in the cabinet,
[00:26:38] to ensure you wouldn't serve. Now something here these
[00:26:42] days, no, no, I want to say something even before, the existing legal
[00:26:45] situation is a wonderful situation, because there is no more
[00:26:48] exemption arrangement in the law books, this is the gift of the outgoing
[00:26:51] Knesset to the incoming Knesset, there is no exemption
[00:26:54] arrangement, this means there is a conscription law, it is called the Security
[00:26:57] Service Law, it is universal, it gives all the power
[00:27:00] to the recruiter, which is the IDF, to recruit everyone, and they have already
[00:27:04] started recruiting, that's why we reached more than 100,000 draft dodgers,
[00:27:08] and that's why any ultra-Orthodox party that wants something
[00:27:11] in cash, it will need a new exemption law
[00:27:15] to be legislated, and legislating a law is a thousand
[00:27:18] times harder than maintaining an existing
[00:27:21] situation, and it won't be easy to give, and I also very much hope
[00:27:25] they won't give. Okay, I want to add Yoav Krakovsky,
[00:27:29] our commentator, Krakovsky, how many
[00:27:31] times have you seen Deri resign
[00:27:35] from Shas in your life? Uh, first of all,
[00:27:37] let's start by saying that I saw him once announce that he was not
[00:27:41] resigning, and two weeks later he resigned. That was after the
[00:27:44] 1999 elections. The day after the elections, he went to the big
[00:27:48] gathering that was in Gan Oranim and said, "I'm not resigning, not resigning," and then
[00:27:52] he was forced to resign and resigned and went to prison. And since
[00:27:55] then, what we saw yesterday, Liel, is that
[00:27:58] in Shas there are no primaries.
[00:28:02] There are no members, there are rabbis. What did Aryeh Deri
[00:28:06] actually do yesterday? He essentially forced the rabbis to vote
[00:28:09] for him in the primaries, to express confidence in him, after he
[00:28:13] suffered a severe defeat, reducing
[00:28:16] Shas from 11 to six seats. So he threatened that he would
[00:28:19] resign, received a kind of rabbinic
[00:28:22] seal that he must not resign, and this is essentially the rabbis'
[00:28:26] vote of confidence, that despite your failure, we continue
[00:28:29] to stick with you, to go forward with you.
[00:28:49] If we go back for a moment to the chaos of President Herzog's
[00:28:52] talk show at the President's Residence, another difficult question he poses today is actually directed at Ra'am chairman
[00:28:55] Mansour Abbas, and he is required to answer the question.
[00:28:59] Is Hamas a terrorist organization? Let's see for a moment.
[00:29:03] Why not say and answer the question of Hamas
[00:29:07] being a terrorist organization and remove this thing from his back,
[00:29:10] in quotation marks, and give an answer to the skeptics and really create
[00:29:13] here some possibility for a
[00:29:16] political move that I find fascinating. I have a clear
[00:29:20] answer, but leave me this margin to be
[00:29:23] a bridge and also to influence the other side, and leave me also
[00:29:27] margin to protect myself and
[00:29:29] my family. How much chaos
[00:29:33] does this seemingly small event create? First
[00:29:37] of all, Bougie Herzog really enjoys this situation where he confronts
[00:29:40] ראשי כל המפלגות בשאלות שיש בהם גם לא מעט
[00:29:43] gossipy politics, and he really enjoys the move. But
[00:29:47] מה שבעצם כאן עושה מנסור בס בשבועות האחרונים וגם
[00:29:51] ביממות האחרונות, הוא מנסה לעשות כמעט את כל הדרך
[00:29:54] עד לאייזנקוט בלי להגיד במילה מפורשת,
[00:29:58] "Hamas is a terrorist organization." He is actually talking about
[00:30:01] the need to disarm Hamas
[00:30:05] what he also told Esti Peres in the very
[00:30:08] stormy interview they had more than
[00:30:12] אני אגיד שחמאס הוא ארגון טרור, אני מסכן את
[00:30:15] חיי." תבינו את המשמעות הזאת, הוא גם אמר: "תנו לי להגן
[00:30:19] על משפחתי, אבל בעצם הוא מנסה למצוא אולי את הנוסח
[00:30:23] and perhaps President Herzog is also trying to help. I have to ask, we have seen on various
[00:30:27] הזדמנויות בעבר, דווקא יכול להיות אפילו ראיונות שלי עם אנסור
[00:30:30] בס שביקש.
[00:30:32] him to condemn things. We asked questions of this type, and it seemed as if he was being cornered,
[00:30:36] and he very easily said these things. What
[00:30:39] happened in the time that has passed since October 7th,
[00:30:43] from the explicit condemnations, until today, when the chairman
[00:30:46] of Ra'am says, "I don't want to endanger
[00:30:50] First of all, it's possible that the level of threat against him has also
[00:30:53] שהוא מבין שהוא מייצג גם אוכלוסיה,
[00:30:57] I think in this regard, perhaps he is making a mistake
[00:31:01] precise, closer
[00:31:04] he needs to say when
[00:31:08] Hamas shoots and harms
[00:31:11] citizens. This is a fact, Arab citizens were kidnapped.
[00:31:15] Arab citizens were also harmed by missiles in the Bedouin diaspora throughout
[00:31:18] the country. So he needs to say something very simple, we are against terrorism. He said this
[00:31:22] during that meeting today with President Herzog, and we
[00:31:25] that endangers the residents of the State of
[00:31:28] Israel, Jews, Arabs, we are all under
[00:31:32] the same threat from Iran and also from Hamas. He
[00:31:35] hesitates to say that. It's possible that perhaps in the more advanced
[00:31:39] stage of negotiations for the purpose of external support or perhaps even joining
[00:31:42] a coalition, he will be forced to
[00:31:45] utter these sentences that will bring him closer to Eisenkot, closer
[00:31:48] to Bennett, perhaps even a little, perhaps a little
[00:31:51] to Lieberman. Yoav Krakovsky, thank you very much.
[00:31:55] Thank you very much. To what extent, Michael, does the fact that Mansour
[00:31:58] Abbas, even in this recommendation meeting,
[00:32:01] and after a truly stormy campaign
[00:32:05] throughout, whether it's possible or impossible to rely on Arab parties
[00:32:08] from within, from without, from the side. Ah, when he is not
[00:32:11] able to say these things at the President's residence, to what extent does he limit the
[00:32:34] even if they support from outside the Knesset on every move,
[00:32:37] every legislation that the coalition
[00:32:40] tries to try, the Arabs will also demand
[00:32:43] a price. There is no price, what price will they ask for? Is it the price
[00:32:47] of recognition of a two-state solution? Is it just a solution of, I
[00:32:51] don't know, an increase in police force in Arab
[00:32:54] villages? There is, I think, there is a menu, a menu
[00:32:57] of prices that the Arabs can demand, and some of the prices
[00:33:01] will be unbearable. Yes, tell me, we see what
[00:33:04] is happening in the United States, the results of the elections there
[00:33:08] which are very clear, there is a crushing
[00:33:11] defeat for President
[00:33:15] and there are already those who have found culprits, and this is again
[00:33:19] the relationship, you, us, all of us, the relationship,
[00:33:22] that it's only the President, it turned out that it's also the President.
[00:33:25] Today there was a tweet from the President's son,
[00:33:29] Donald Trump Jr., and he says that he agrees
[00:33:32] 100%, with every word written by
[00:33:35] Vice President Gidon, who blamed Jews and
[00:33:39] Judaism for this defeat. So let's say
[00:33:42] Gidon Van Ness wrote this, and let's see. His words, he
[00:33:45] wrote: The pollster asked voters what would make them come back to us, and the four
[00:33:49] leading answers that covered almost all responses were ending
[00:33:53] the war in Iran, focusing on the cost of living, putting America first,
[00:33:56] America first, two agenda items, and changing
[00:33:59] our relations with Israel. Is this something
[00:34:03] that you find problematic or is it the very, very
[00:34:07] close relationship throughout the last three years and the entire
[00:34:10] Trump administration? Let's say in the two years that we are in a different
[00:34:13] situation where the system of
[00:34:16] special relations we've known for 50 years, we are now entering
[00:34:20] a new era, which requires us first of all to try
[00:34:23] to open as many open channels as possible with all parties, not just
[00:34:27] the Democrats, also the Republicans.
[00:34:29] In this context, what Yair Lapid said, that he is willing
[00:34:32] to embark on a journey of listening, I think
[00:34:36] that this is the direction, but not just the direction, we need to say what we are willing to do, not just listen, what we are willing
[00:34:40] to do, you said to move to a better place, not entirely sure if
[00:34:43] we can go back. What it was, meanwhile we need
[00:34:46] to diversify, diversify our foreign policy portfolio, strengthen our relations with
[00:34:50] India, with Africa, with South America, and not rely, all
[00:34:53] the eggs in one basket that is slowly, not so
[00:34:57] slowly, unraveling. Einat, is that the solution in your opinion,
[00:35:00] to run to India, to Argentina, no, I don't
[00:35:04] know, or is there still
[00:35:07] things Israel can and should do before giving up on the American
[00:35:10] front? Michael also doesn't say give up. Also
[00:35:14] within. Also within the United States, we need to act
[00:35:18] in a much more diverse way towards the different groups in the United
[00:35:21] States. I really don't like it when people talk about Europe, and when they
[00:35:25] talk about the United States now, and when they talk about the Democratic Party, statements
[00:35:28] like "Europe is done," "America is done,"
[00:35:32] these fatalistic statements. If we really go back
[00:35:35] to the early days of Zionism, the genius that
[00:35:39] the early leaders of Zionism had at its beginning, that was truly
[00:35:42] the understanding of how much the risks
[00:35:47] at a time when we had absolutely nothing, and yet
[00:35:50] to always find opportunities everywhere to conduct
[00:35:54] much more sophisticated diplomacy.
[00:35:57] Yes, we need to understand, and this is another urgency
[00:36:00] for the government, that we now have
[00:36:03] two years to utilize the existence of a sympathetic
[00:36:06] president in the White House to try to establish
[00:36:10] things that will not be dependent on a future Congress
[00:36:13] or nation. By the way, is he still sympathetic when we see these statements,
[00:36:17] and we know that personal prestige is also important to Trump, and it
[00:36:20] took a hit? Certainly, but we still have an opportunity here
[00:36:24] for two years. For example, the issue of ending aid, this is
[00:36:28] something that should have happened a long time ago. In general, we are now
[00:36:31] also approaching a moment that holds many opportunities, because we
[00:36:35] have been in some kind of American bear hug for more
[00:36:38] than 50 years. I always like to remind that our most
[00:36:42] clear, dazzling victories
[00:36:45] were achieved under conditions of an American arms embargo, and from the moment
[00:36:49] the United States became the arms supplier, that is also
[00:36:53] the moment when it deliberately
[00:36:56] us before, also regarding
[00:37:00] mistake was not that they didn't wage
[00:37:03] the war, in the end the big mistake was that they stopped Israel, so
[00:37:07] therefore we need to enter a world that also has
[00:37:10] opportunities, where the American bear hug
[00:37:13] is removed, and there are also opportunities for Israeli sovereignty.
[00:37:17] Okay, the next issue, in fact,
[00:37:20] is related to what we said about President Trump's stance on this
[00:37:24] matter, even in the Knesset plenum here in our country. Ah,
[00:37:28] and we turn to Netanyahu's trial and what is happening today within
[00:37:31] כותלי האולם שבו המשפט הזה מתרחש כשסנגוריו של
[00:37:34] the Prime Minister are asking, in a very unusual way,
[00:37:38] to summon the Attorney General for a discussion in the case, and not only
[00:37:42] does their unusual demand not raise eyebrows among the judges, but
[00:37:46] the judges themselves say that they
[00:37:48] are considering doing so themselves. Shali Piro,
[00:37:52] our legal correspondent, good evening. Hello
[00:37:55] Liel. Yes, so since that request. Trump's request
[00:37:58] somewhere in the Knesset of Israel, a lot of water has flowed under the bridge,
[00:38:02] and since then there has been the very, very significant testimony of the Attorney
[00:38:06] General, who headed the law enforcement
[00:38:09] system at the time this indictment was filed.
[00:38:13] And today, the demand comes from the defense attorneys
[00:38:16] of both Netanyahu and the Elovitch couple to summon the Attorney
[00:38:20] General in light of a series of
[00:38:23] statements made by the Attorney General
[00:38:25] during the very long testimony that lasted several
[00:38:29] days in court, so that she
[00:38:33] would address a series of crucial issues
[00:38:36] for the criminal case and the prophecies
[00:38:40] are bursting through an open door. Yes,
[00:38:43] let's recall and clarify the very big
[00:38:47] question marks that arose from the testimony of former Attorney General
[00:38:51] Mandelblit, who did not remember or said
[00:38:54] he did not remember very important points. For example,
[00:38:58] in the decision to file an indictment and the way the investigation
[00:39:01] was conducted, these are actually the things that cause the defense attorneys
[00:39:05] to come and request that the current Attorney General - I think that even
[00:39:09] in the best predictions of Netanyahu's defense
[00:39:12] and also of the other defendants - they did not imagine
[00:39:16] how critical Mandelblit's
[00:39:19] for them, and this is what Judge Shaham
[00:39:22] says, one of the three judges on the panel regarding
[00:39:26] that request, and he says: "It could be that the defense burst
[00:39:29] through an open door, because we considered such a move even before. We
[00:39:33] believed that this dialogue should be conducted
[00:39:36] more directly." Says
[00:39:40] the judge in no uncertain terms, "We think that the Attorney General
[00:39:43] certainly needs to consider what
[00:39:46] was said here, and you are bursting through an open door." Later,
[00:39:50] the head of the panel, Judge Rivka Friedman-Feldman,
[00:39:53] says the following, in light of the prosecution's
[00:39:56] opposition. The prosecution's are against any harm
[00:40:00] inviting the Attorney General for an informal meeting to explain
[00:40:03] why she needs to be invited here." The head
[00:40:07] of the panel says, "There are many things in this trial
[00:40:10] that are not usual." So
[00:40:14] not hints. Yes, not hints, says the panel
[00:40:17] of judges in its voice that the Attorney General, at the very
[00:40:21] least, they believe, needs to consider, in light of
[00:40:25] the state of affairs, in light of the testimony, in light of what emerges
[00:40:28] from the testimony the day after. And you spoke about Trump's statement
[00:40:32] calling for Netanyahu's
[00:40:35] at least on the defense side, a pardon is not on the table,
[00:40:39] and as we heard yesterday, they are demanding a defense
[00:40:42] from the outset, meaning cancellation or delay of the legal
[00:40:46] proceedings. Shalit Piro, please continue to update us. Thank you very much.
[00:41:15] And what not. I had a triple album of her performance
[00:41:18] in Caesarea. It was our favorite
[00:41:22] And here is the woman who seemed, and maybe it's naive of me
[00:41:26] to say this, who was at the heart of Israeli culture, or at least was
[00:41:29] identified, for many years, precisely with the left
[00:41:33] side of the map, took part in
[00:41:36] demonstrations, in the protest against the judicial reform, until in recent
[00:41:40] days, something happened in Israel, not to mention something happened
[00:41:43] on her Instagram account, because users identified
[00:41:47] that Ravitz was sharing and liking
[00:41:50] right-wing content, and this identification is causing a huge
[00:41:54] uproar. On one hand, calls for boycotts on social media, even a sharp
[00:41:58] opinion piece in Haaretz under the title "It always hurts when someone supports
[00:42:01] evil people, in the case of Yehudit Ravitz it's much more crushing."
[00:42:04] Prime Minister Netanyahu,
[00:42:06] for his part, rushed to tweet and write.
[00:42:40] didn't understand what was happening because I've seen for a very long time that she shares my videos
[00:42:43] that really deal with the history of the conflict
[00:42:46] and the consciousness struggle and the rise of anti-Zionism and what
[00:42:50] Palestinianism is, and therefore today, a bit
[00:42:54] jokingly, when Netanyahu tweeted his thanks for
[00:42:57] the support, even though she expressed no support for Netanyahu, then
[00:43:00] I wrote that if anyone needs to express gratitude for Yehudit's
[00:43:04] support, it's me, because it's her videos, my videos are the videos
[00:43:08] she shares the most. But if you look, and she also said it
[00:43:11] in her replies, she said it's not right, it's not left, she relates
[00:43:15] to reality, and these are also my messages, my messages are
[00:43:19] ultimately that we need to acknowledge that the Arabs
[00:43:21] in Gaza,
[00:43:24] in the Palestinian Authority, all those who identify as Palestinians,
[00:43:28] with the exception of a few brave individuals, make it clear
[00:43:31] that their ideology is more about the denial
[00:43:34] that Jews have no state than about establishing a state
[00:43:38] for themselves, and to recognize reality.
[00:43:51] Thank you very much for being with us. Stay with me for the next story,
[00:43:55] because there's nothing like gossip, and what's happening now is a bit of
[00:43:58] criminal, internal industry gossip. Pay attention to the unusual
[00:44:02] attack against the lawyers of
[00:44:06] Superintendent Yoni Haj, commander of the Coast Police Major Crimes Unit.
[00:44:10] Here's something that I usually don't
[00:44:12] identify, ah, a defense attorney who
[00:44:16] cares about the interests of his client,
[00:44:18] which I think is something that I also saw
[00:44:21] as unusual, but ah, why are we so bad,
[00:44:24] lawyers don't care, yes, how is this manifested? You are several levels above
[00:44:28] bad,
[00:44:31] liars, you will sell your mother for
[00:44:34] to,
[00:44:37] do everything, close representation, what will you do? Close?
[00:44:47] That you will obstruct an investigation, lie, cheat,
[00:44:51] steal, do whatever it takes for your
[00:44:54] client. Joining us is attorney Yaron London,
[00:44:57] formerly a senior in Unit 43. Good
[00:45:01] evening. Good evening to you. I don't want
[00:45:05] to repeat these words, but let's assume there's some... Look, I
[00:45:08] איזה... תראי, אני
[00:45:12] think
[00:45:13] that these
[00:45:19] things deserve all condemnation.
[00:45:22] Every sane person understands that this is nonsense and vanity, to defame
[00:45:25] רוח, להוציא את דיבתם רעה של
[00:45:28] of defense attorneys, prosecutors who do their job
[00:45:31] faithfully and are obligated
[00:45:34] to be loyal to their clients, even when their interests
[00:45:37] are different from
[00:45:40] the interests of the police.
[00:45:42] It's simply hard to imagine
[00:45:46] how a person like him, who is a respected officer
[00:45:50] in a very important unit in the Israel Police, with the rank
[00:45:53] of superintendent, the face of the police, goes and says
[00:45:57] such things about such a large public. I saw things
[00:46:00] there that were even worse than what we heard just now, like "I'll fold them
[00:46:04] into four, I'll throw them into the sea," all sorts of
[00:46:07] statements that I find it hard
[00:46:10] to simply believe came
[00:46:12] from him.
[00:46:15] You've been on both sides. Explain to me, do you manage to understand,
[00:46:18] but you were on the other side and conducted tough investigations
[00:46:22] and dealt with criminal defense attorneys
[00:46:25] whose hands, correct me if I'm wrong, are
[00:46:29] often much freer than those, supposedly, of
[00:46:32] law enforcement officials. Do you understand where these statements come from? Leave aside the style
[00:46:36] and leave aside the method, can you understand the sentiment?
[00:46:41] I can understand, I can understand the frustration, and I can understand
[00:46:44] the emotional, not intellectual, aspect of
[00:46:46] this.
[00:46:48] Of course, for many years I was on that side, and today I am a defense attorney.
[00:46:52] I understand the possibilities, and I know that the Israel Police
[00:46:56] is supposed to, and can, and is also obligated to act according to
[00:46:59] the law, and there are clear things about what is allowed and what
[00:47:03] is forbidden. And just as there are defense attorneys who sometimes err
[00:47:07] or cross a red line, we also encounter police officers
[00:47:10] and commanders who err and cross a red line. But no
[00:47:14] one goes and slanders 50% of the Israel
[00:47:17] Police. And therefore, I also don't think
[00:47:20] that it's possible or
[00:47:35] two days,
[00:47:39] it annoys the police officer, because he wanted eight days, but the ones
[00:47:42] who decide are the courts, and we all
[00:47:45] have to respect that. I want to explain something. Both
[00:47:48] the defense and the prosecution are two sides.
[00:47:56] I want to take advantage of the fact that you are also truly a former
[00:47:59] police officer. Is it just
[00:48:02] me, are we the only ones who think that we are seeing these things, that there has also been
[00:48:06] some deterioration in the style of
[00:48:08] the police in what their representatives
[00:48:12] allow themselves to say openly in front of cameras, or has it
[00:48:16] always been this way?
[00:48:19] Look, I don't want to generalize, and I don't... I can't
[00:48:23] remember every single statement made by this or that officer, but
[00:48:26] like in every society and every body, there are always those who are the exception
[00:48:30] to the rule, who perhaps allow themselves to express themselves
[00:48:33] less.
[00:48:37] Right, yes, but that exists everywhere, that exists
[00:48:40] everywhere. The vast majority of officers and police officers of the Israel Police
[00:48:44] are good people, honest people and people who know
[00:48:48] their place. Attorney Yaron London, thank you for being with us. What
[00:48:51] is worse.
[00:49:02] And this conduct has two dangerous aspects: one is
[00:49:06] the damage to the police's image, and that is severe damage, and I hear
[00:49:10] it also from my former colleagues who are out of the
[00:49:13] system and those who are within the system who were exposed
[00:49:16] to the matter. The second thing that worries me is
[00:49:20] that this, wait, this is the spirit of the commander. Once the commander
[00:49:23] behaves like this, talks like this, and thinks like this, what will all
[00:49:27] the officers and subordinates under him say, and how will they continue to interact with
[00:49:30] the community of defense attorneys? Attorney London, thank you very much. At this
[00:55:23] government or elections? I am going
[00:55:26] to open the second day of consultations. The round of consultations
[00:55:29] with the president will end this evening. Eisenkot is expected
[00:55:32] to receive the mandate after the Joint
[00:55:36] List
[00:55:38] also decided to recommend his candidacy.
[00:55:41] Anxiety in the
[00:55:46] skies of Europe.
[00:55:48] Fighter jets scrambled and airports closed.
[00:55:52] Bomb threats on planes reach a new
[00:55:54] peak.
[00:55:57] Special project. Two years after the fall.