M1 — Mindenki Akademiaja
20260920 065500 UTC
421 transcript segments
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[00:05:51] Business only after a massage. If anyone understands, it's
[00:05:54] me. The damn thing. Well, their place.
[00:05:58] They marked it. Good day, I'm speaking from a coffee shop. We
[00:06:01] see what we want to see. We want to pay.
[00:06:05] I like selling and buying. Espresso. Tonight
[00:06:08] on
[00:07:04] On the stage of Everyone's Academy tonight, Tamás Hajdegger,
[00:07:08] the inventor of the palm scanner. Hello
[00:07:11] everyone! I am Tamás Hajregger, associate professor
[00:07:15] at Óbuda University, deputy director of the Antal Bejci E-robotics
[00:07:17] Center, and one of the founders
[00:07:20] of Handing Scan.
[00:07:28] This is a DaVinci surgical system, you have to imagine that
[00:07:32] the surgeon always sits in front of the console, the patient is on the other
[00:07:35] side, and the movements that the surgeon normally performs with both hands
[00:07:39] through laparoscopic instruments are carried out by the robot
[00:07:43] from this console into the patient. Only a few people in the world
[00:07:47] are working with this unique surgical robot, of which there is only one in Hungary,
[00:07:50] including Tamás Hajdegger, the deputy director
[00:07:54] of Óbuda University. The domestic representative of surgical robotics
[00:07:58] develops, researches, builds, and considers
[00:08:01] himself primarily an engineer. I built sandcastles in the sandbox
[00:08:05] as a child, just the same. Later, it simply occurred to me
[00:08:08] that I was interested in engineering. I basically come from an engineering family, and obviously this
[00:08:12] influence also helped, but I simply saw
[00:08:16] an exciting world in robotics, and 20 years ago,
[00:08:19] I must add, this was only classic industrial robotics, we hadn't
[00:08:22] yet seen this huge explosive development that has occurred since,
[00:08:26] but even that was attractive and interesting enough for me to decide that I wanted to
[00:08:30] delve into this. Tamás Hajdeger already knew that
[00:08:33] he wanted to continue his studies in robotics, and then later,
[00:08:36] to connect this with some kind of medical application, which is why he applied
[00:08:40] to the Faculty of Engineering at the Technical University. It was
[00:08:44] difficult to find anyone at home who was engaged in this, but luckily,
[00:08:48] when I reached the PhD program, my supervisor, Benyu Profi,
[00:08:51] had a very wide network of contacts, and he was the one who
[00:08:55] helped me find people at home and abroad who already knew
[00:08:59] people who had worked with surgical robots, and so
[00:09:02] I managed to win several foreign scholarships through this, and to get into
[00:09:05] research relationships with people, or to build and carry out joint projects,
[00:09:08] through which I also learned the ins and outs of this
[00:09:12] field. His research group even works for NASA,
[00:09:16] as alongside surgical robotics, space telesurgery is
[00:09:18] Tamás's other specialization. Before surgical robotics, this
[00:09:22] was one of my goals, to work with robotics. And
[00:09:26] from the intersection of the two came at least a part of the
[00:09:30] field, which is space telesurgery. As it started in the 70s, NASA wanted
[00:09:33] to be able to support astronauts with
[00:09:36] robots. And because of that, the entire telerobotics
[00:09:40] concept was developed, and now we really want to put it
[00:09:43] into practice and make it happen, because if we send people to Mars, it's too far
[00:09:47] to really provide all the support to them on site. In this
[00:09:51] Central European region, in a uniquely equipped medical robotics
[00:09:55] laboratory, Tamás Hajdeger's team is working on
[00:09:59] their self-developed instruments, and so are the medical students.
[00:10:02] Tamás's team develops and manufactures the surgical instruments used in operations,
[00:10:04] as well as the realistic body parts
[00:10:08] prepared for practice.
[00:10:12] Our innovation story is exciting because a few years
[00:10:15] ago, a small team of engineering students came together and
[00:10:19] decided to create something new, to develop a new
[00:10:22] procedure and equipment, and then to manufacture it,
[00:10:26] which is suitable for the objective measurement of medical
[00:10:29] hand hygiene.
[00:10:31] Tamás Hajdeger wrote his doctoral theses on surgical robotics and
[00:10:34] telerobotics. Yet he spends most of his time
[00:10:37] and energy on his business established to control
[00:10:41] medical hand hygiene. His goal is to
[00:10:44] eliminate hospital infections. His work
[00:10:47] is extremely complex and multifaceted, a true
[00:10:50] teamwork. I am one of the fortunate ones whose work is also their hobby,
[00:10:54] or whose hobby became their work, I would say. So I really enjoy
[00:10:58] filling my time with professional programs. My work involves a lot of travel,
[00:11:01] so I get to see the world, and I've made many international
[00:11:04] friends with whom we regularly create very good and
[00:11:08] meaningful programs. My wife often comes with me, so practically
[00:11:12] many areas of my life that would otherwise
[00:11:15] be empty are filled by it. It's a bit of work, a bit of
[00:11:18] fun, the two merge
[00:11:20] for me.
[00:11:23] This was specifically a... factory building, an electrical
[00:11:27] energy lab, built in the 50s.
[00:11:30] This place was given to the University of Technology and Knowledge office
[00:11:34] to create an innovation center, where
[00:11:37] many projects work side by side, and many
[00:11:41] young students and talents try to achieve success.
[00:11:44] Tamás Hajdegger's first world-famous project also
[00:11:48] started here, but at the very beginning, it was a very empty
[00:11:51] hall, Tamás's team was the first project, they worked in the
[00:11:55] back, now we are full, about 40 projects are running in parallel,
[00:11:59] Tamás's project was the first pilot project on how
[00:12:02] to identify intellectual creations, ideas, and research results,
[00:12:06] and to guide them towards
[00:12:10] utilization. Tamás's team was actually our first big success
[00:12:13] as well. Since then, their so-called Hand in Scar
[00:12:16] system has become world-famous, which he will soon
[00:12:19] present here at Everyone's Academy. What
[00:12:22] is very beautiful about the whole thing, and what actually drives
[00:12:25] people here beyond inner inspiration, is that
[00:12:28] we can witness a story, a truly classic
[00:12:31] technology transfer process, when from a single idea we dreamed up
[00:12:35] a device that worked, and at first
[00:12:38] of course it was just a rudimentary small prototype,
[00:12:41] but it could be taken for the first clinical
[00:12:44] tests, and it turned out that there really was a need for it,
[00:12:48] we managed to build a small team around it, then we managed to get
[00:12:51] capital investors, and step by step we were able
[00:12:55] to reach the point where today... "we are a project that
[00:12:58] is present in 17 countries with its product. On the
[00:13:02] podium, Tamás Hajdegger, engineer, and his topic,
[00:13:05] the bacteria scanner. For decades, we've known that
[00:13:09] alcohol-based hand sanitizers are perfectly capable of removing
[00:13:12] bacteria and viruses from the hands. But do we know if doctors
[00:13:16] and nurses in hospitals have properly cleaned their hands,
[00:13:20] truly destroying every pathogen on them? We will
[00:13:23] discuss this in more detail. For years, with the handling scan, we have been developing
[00:13:26] a system that is suitable for objective
[00:13:30] hand hygiene, measurement, and control
[00:13:32] alike. The whole story began about
[00:13:36] 160 years ago, with Ignác Semmelweis. He
[00:13:39] was the first to notice that hand hygiene
[00:13:43] during medical care is of immense
[00:13:46] importance. People can die from
[00:13:49] these infections, such as mothers contracted from examining
[00:13:52] doctors in the Vienna General Hospital. Dozens
[00:13:56] of people died every month, they were terrified
[00:13:59] of it, they were afraid. Ignác Semmelweis was the first to find the
[00:14:03] connection between handwashing, hand hygiene
[00:14:06] and the reduction of infections. What
[00:14:09] happens? In everyday practice, we see
[00:14:13] that the pathogens that breed in hospitals
[00:14:16] unfortunately infect hundreds, thousands of
[00:14:19] people. Basically, what you need to know about
[00:14:23] pathogens is that not all of them are a problem. There are
[00:14:26] so-called apatogenic bacteria, for example, which do not pose
[00:14:30] a danger to us humans, they are in our environment, that's why we say
[00:14:34] that children should eat dirt every day to strengthen their
[00:14:36] immune system, but in contrast, there are
[00:14:40] pathogenic bacteria that can infect us, but
[00:14:44] even these are not always dangerous, only if they find a
[00:14:47] host organism, this is something worth exploring
[00:14:51] in a bit more detail, what is needed for this bacterial infection
[00:14:55] to actually cause some kind of problem and illness.
[00:14:58] First of all, it is very important what kind
[00:15:02] of bacterium it is. We call this the virulence
[00:15:05] of the bacterium, which means how easily it can infect
[00:15:09] us, how aggressive that bacterium is. This varies
[00:15:12] with each type, of course there are stronger, more aggressive bacteria and
[00:15:15] less aggressive ones. The other very important factor is the
[00:15:19] number of pathogens. We can encounter
[00:15:22] pathogens everywhere, but the hospital environment. First of all, the
[00:15:26] general number of pathogens in the environment is very important, meaning
[00:15:29] how many pathogens we find on surfaces,
[00:15:33] doorknobs, needles, or officially
[00:15:36] sterile instruments. But it is equally important how many pathogens are
[00:15:40] on the hands, as the hand is the primary
[00:15:43] tool for care. In addition to this, of course, the patient's
[00:15:47] immune status is also important, that is, how strong our body is. A weakened body
[00:15:51] after surgery, who is in the hospital, is expected
[00:15:54] to get infected much more easily, we must also take this into account. If
[00:15:58] all of these are given, there is still a very important point, the pathogenic
[00:16:02] bacterium must enter our body, the so-called
[00:16:05] portal of entry, so if we injure
[00:16:08] our skin, through an open wound, a catheter,
[00:16:12] these can enter much more easily, and the totality of these poses
[00:16:16] a real danger to our
[00:16:18] patients. In the past years,
[00:16:22] it has become clear that the presence of these
[00:16:26] bacteria can only be controlled to a certain extent. No matter how much
[00:16:29] we disinfect tables, no matter how much we mop,
[00:16:33] there will always be a general level. However, we can effectively
[00:16:36] minimize this so-called infection chain, that is, passing general environmental bacteria
[00:16:40] through our hands to the patient. Benjamin
[00:16:43] Franklin was the first to articulate very precisely that
[00:16:47] prevention is immeasurably
[00:16:50] more important than
[00:16:53] aftercare. If hand hygiene is not adequate,
[00:16:57] and the aforementioned conditions exist, then we can speak of
[00:17:00] so-called hospital infection. The medical profession
[00:17:03] considers anything that occurs within 48
[00:17:06] hours of a patient's admission
[00:17:10] as an infection. It appears then or later,
[00:17:13] and when we entered the hospital or the healthcare system,
[00:17:17] this bacterial strain or virus was not yet in our body.
[00:17:21] Furthermore, it is very important that the bacteria that
[00:17:24] thrive there are not the common bacteria, and not even a
[00:17:28] simple influenza, but many
[00:17:31] severely mutated bacterial strains that pose a much greater
[00:17:35] danger to... Of course,
[00:17:38] there are many types of hospital infections, perhaps the simplest
[00:17:42] is wound infection, meaning those directly attributable to surgical
[00:17:45] procedures. Here too, some of these occur due to the
[00:17:49] sterility or inadequate sterility of the instruments.
[00:17:52] Of course, if an endoscope or any
[00:17:56] surgical instrument is not inserted cleanly into the patient,
[00:17:59] it can lead to a very serious infection, but
[00:18:02] in the period after the surgical procedure,
[00:18:05] in the aftercare, which is usually
[00:18:09] much longer, there is a much greater chance of contracting hospital
[00:18:13] infections, because that weakened body is kept
[00:18:17] in that environment, which is fundamentally teeming with bacteria. What
[00:18:20] happens during hospital care, the nurse or doctor
[00:18:24] comes, there's a ward round, catheters are changed,
[00:18:27] blankets are adjusted, charts are written, they constantly
[00:18:31] move between patients, so the vast majority of
[00:18:34] other hospital infections
[00:18:37] arise because during care, unfortunately,
[00:18:40] healthcare professionals transmit them from one patient to another, and then to a third,
[00:18:44] without really being aware of it.
[00:18:48] 100 years ago, we thought there were no problems
[00:18:51] anymore, and hospital infections didn't exist, since
[00:18:54] everyone disinfected their hands properly. Well, this
[00:18:58] misconception only existed until we started measuring
[00:19:01] and paying attention to why those patients
[00:19:05] became infected, why their condition worsened. In the best
[00:19:09] quality healthcare systems throughout Western Europe, the official statistics
[00:19:12] estimate the rate of hospital infections at 3-5, 10%.
[00:19:16] What does this mean? I go to the
[00:19:19] hospital, I spend a night there, I have a 3-5,
[00:19:23] 10% chance of getting infected
[00:19:27] with something. This is a huge
[00:19:30] number, this is what we want to avoid, this is what we
[00:19:33] must prevent at all costs. It's not just about
[00:19:37] when someone gets infected, their
[00:19:41] health is obviously at risk, and unfortunately, tens
[00:19:45] of thousands die annually across Europe,
[00:19:48] but also that it imposes huge extra costs on the healthcare
[00:19:51] system. According to the most conservative financial
[00:19:55] estimates, if we could eliminate hospital infections,
[00:19:58] the financial problems of the entire Western healthcare system
[00:20:01] would be solved in one fell swoop. This is a
[00:20:05] huge opportunity that we must exploit.
[00:20:07] it is clear that in recent
[00:20:11] years it has been announced several times, they said we
[00:20:15] won, we can overcome infections, since
[00:20:18] penicillin we know that antibacterial
[00:20:22] agents, antibiotics in drug form, have a huge
[00:20:26] role, but what happens, why do we hear more and more in the
[00:20:30] media, why do we encounter this problem more and more,
[00:20:33] because it turned out that bacteria
[00:20:36] mutate and change much faster,
[00:20:40] adapting to their environment, than we can make progress
[00:20:43] in drug research and development. Here you can see
[00:20:47] the five-year breakdown until 2012,
[00:20:51] how many new antibiotics were discovered every
[00:20:54] five years, worldwide,
[00:20:57] in total. What does this mean? The number of new
[00:21:01] drugs is drastically decreasing. And why is this a problem? Because the constantly
[00:21:04] adapting and mutating bacteria become
[00:21:08] resistant to the existing drugs. These are called
[00:21:11] resistant and multidrug-resistant pathogens.
[00:21:15] Practically, it can be said that all
[00:21:18] hospitals now have an infection control
[00:21:21] program, there are designated specialists, there are
[00:21:24] responsible persons, various training and education programs
[00:21:27] are in operation. Basically, hand hygiene
[00:21:31] can be performed in two ways: one is
[00:21:34] the classic surgical scrub, meaning when a
[00:21:37] surgeon prepares for surgery, let's say they go
[00:21:41] through a 5-minute or 3-minute protocol, washing their
[00:21:44] hands with antibacterial soap under running
[00:21:48] water. Multiple times in a row, always
[00:21:51] using disposable paper towels so they don't get re-infected,
[00:21:55] but basically we're trying to achieve removing every
[00:21:58] pathogen and bacterium from our hands
[00:22:02] along with the top layer of skin. If
[00:22:04] we think about it, the skin has a natural flora, so there is
[00:22:08] a bacterial culture that lives with us. During surgical
[00:22:12] scrubbing, they even try to minimize this. That's why
[00:22:15] surgeons experience so many skin irritations and skin problems,
[00:22:19] because these are very serious demands on the hands.
[00:22:22] In contrast, or in addition to this, alcohol-based hand sanitization appeared,
[00:22:26] which we demonstrated at the beginning, which is about 30 years
[00:22:30] ago, when they realized that alcohol is an incredibly
[00:22:33] effective compound for killing bacteria
[00:22:36] and viruses, then they had to find the appropriate formalism
[00:22:40] that wouldn't completely dry out the hands, making it usable in daily
[00:22:43] routine, and they developed those international recommendations, and this
[00:22:47] has been the global recommendation of the WHO for 15 years.
[00:22:52] The recommendation is to perform antibacterial hand
[00:22:56] disinfection, meaning alcohol-based hand disinfection,
[00:22:59] daily, not several times, not dozens
[00:23:02] of times, 50, or 100 times in some
[00:23:05] cases, if we want to ensure the protection of our patients.
[00:23:08] There are regulations that before anyone touches
[00:23:12] a patient, after touching a patient, before
[00:23:15] performing any adjustment on a catheter, or
[00:23:18] measuring anything, hands must be disinfected. There is a 30-second
[00:23:21] protocol for this, so it is much faster than washing hands with running
[00:23:24] water, at the end of which the alcohol evaporates, so if
[00:23:28] we take from the dispenser, after applying it properly to the hands,
[00:23:31] it makes our hands clean, destroying every
[00:23:35] pathogen on them. Yet, what is the problem? Well, it's not
[00:23:39] so trivial to disinfect our entire hands, even though
[00:23:42] the World Health Organization has a separate six-step protocol for
[00:23:46] how to do it, how to rub, people forget, they don't
[00:23:50] do it properly, they skip parts, this is such a serious
[00:23:53] problem that for decades we haven't found an adequate
[00:23:56] solution. In the past, surgical students were trained
[00:23:59] by blindfolding them, greasing their hands with coal dust,
[00:24:04] tap to wash it off blindly, with their eyes blindfolded,
[00:24:08] so that the routine would develop. Today, fortunately,
[00:24:10] we have much better methods, so-called UV-marked, meaning only
[00:24:14] visible under UV light, substances can measure how well
[00:24:18] someone can disinfect their hands, but still,
[00:24:22] when we go to the clinic and measure people,
[00:24:25] we examine them, then in the past 35 years we have observed the same thing, that
[00:24:29] in 30% of cases they miss
[00:24:31] something, the thumb, the
[00:24:34] fingertips, different areas of the hand,
[00:24:38] all of these are things that people use in everyday
[00:24:42] care. I use it to grasp something, I use it to adjust
[00:24:45] something, so if there was any bacteria,
[00:24:49] virus, fungus, on my hand, unfortunately, it stays
[00:24:52] there, and with the next movement, I can re-infect my whole
[00:24:55] hand. That's why hand hygiene technique is very important,
[00:24:59] which unfortunately was underestimated
[00:25:02] in recent years and received much less attention than
[00:25:05] we would like. Five years ago,
[00:25:07] with a few fellow students,
[00:25:10] we founded, or launched, a university research project. This was
[00:25:14] nothing more than a wild idea from my colleague Ákos Lehotski,
[00:25:18] to create a machine. Let's see how we
[00:25:21] could automate this education, training,
[00:25:25] and control process. it's about people
[00:25:28] needing to give some kind of feedback, and obviously it's not feasible
[00:25:32] for someone to always stand over another's shoulder and note that
[00:25:36] the chief physician missed his left thumb, so this is not
[00:25:39] feasible, but there is a machine that can
[00:25:42] measure, record the data, and possibly provide
[00:25:46] digital evaluation, then that is a qualitative step forward. And,
[00:25:50] since this can be organically integrated into everyday
[00:25:53] care processes, and the kind of knowledge
[00:25:56] and understanding is continuously generated on how to properly perform
[00:26:00] hand hygiene. The first prototype
[00:26:03] we created was still entirely manual; we only digitally recorded
[00:26:07] the footage, and then an infection control specialist could
[00:26:10] independently evaluate these samples. But at that time, even this
[00:26:14] was considered such an innovation that we were invited to a Singaporean university
[00:26:17] hospital, where we measured more than 5000 people with this method, and
[00:26:20] taught them the correct hand hygiene
[00:26:23] technique. When it turned out that there was indeed a need for this,
[00:26:27] and this was a novel thing, then the small team at the Technical University
[00:26:30] started to develop a real device, which is already
[00:26:33] automated. This became the Hand Hygiene Scan device, which was already capable
[00:26:37] of, if someone placed their hand under it, then
[00:26:41] with some kind of measurement and digital image processing,
[00:26:45] it could objectively tell what it saw on it, where areas were
[00:26:48] missed. You practically have to imagine the whole
[00:26:52] system like this: we take a photo under UV illumination,
[00:26:55] and then our proprietary software algorithm finds where the
[00:26:59] hand is, and finds on it where those areas are that were reached
[00:27:02] by the substance, where the bacteria were destroyed, and where those areas are
[00:27:06] where it unfortunately wasn't reached, so we have to draw the person's attention to it, and this
[00:27:09] can be marked in red, for example, that oops, something was missed there, please
[00:27:13] go back, redo it, or, even better, since this
[00:27:17] is digital information, we can immediately upload it to the internet,
[00:27:20] or send it to their superior, then at that
[00:27:23] moment, well, obviously not realistic, but the hospital
[00:27:27] director takes out their phone, and sees on it that Dr. Kovács has
[00:27:30] again missed their thumb. "obviously they don't have time to
[00:27:34] deal with this, but from now on, as digital data,
[00:27:37] we have the opportunity to create statistics, analyze these,
[00:27:41] figure out where we actually need to improve the
[00:27:45] technique. Obviously, as engineers, we cannot just
[00:27:48] give such a device to hospitals, saying "here you go," and
[00:27:52] then everyone is happy.
[00:27:55] for years, brought it to Hungarian hospitals, and here are the results of measurements
[00:27:58] carried out for a year in four Hungarian hospitals.
[00:28:03] People on average made about
[00:28:05] one and a half mistakes, missed a thumb or
[00:28:08] spots on the back of the hand. And when we deployed this device and
[00:28:12] they started using it, we saw that continuously, as a
[00:28:15] result of the education, this decreased to a fraction,
[00:28:18] a quarter or a fifth of the number of people making mistakes, that is,
[00:28:22] gradually people learned to
[00:28:24] disinfect their hands. This is astounding
[00:28:27] in light of the fact that we thought that after university education and
[00:28:31] nursing training, people already knew how to disinfect their hands,
[00:28:34] and this would remain so forever. 160 years after Semmelweis, this is
[00:28:37] still an ongoing problem.
[00:28:41] Based on the experiences, we created the Semmelweis Scanner, the new generation
[00:28:45] device, which can perform these evaluations much faster, much
[00:28:48] and this is the one
[00:28:52] that, armed with 21st-century
[00:28:55] technology, is actually capable of
[00:28:58] continuously checking the hand hygiene technique of the
[00:29:01] workers in a given hospital or, in the case of a food industry factory,
[00:29:04] in a manufacturing environment. I am very, very proud and happy
[00:29:08] to say that after many, many years of development and struggle,
[00:29:12] as a startup, that is, our own small fledgling company, we are now a
[00:29:15] 20-person team, which here in
[00:29:19] Budapest further develops and manufactures this device, and it is already
[00:29:23] actively used in 17 countries worldwide,
[00:29:26] with the greatest success in neonatal intensive care units,
[00:29:30] where a single infection can immediately cost
[00:29:33] the lives of infants. It is very, very important that
[00:29:37] we can check the hand hygiene of both the staff working there
[00:29:40] and the visitors, and thereby ensure
[00:29:43] that the tiny babies can heal and develop in a pathogen-free
[00:29:47] environment. Now I would like to introduce
[00:29:50] you to the Semmelweis scanner, the latest version, which is suitable for
[00:29:54] routinely and objectively measuring hand hygiene
[00:29:57] performance. I would like to ask for a volunteer to
[00:30:00] come here and demonstrate to us how to use it.
[00:30:04] Please.
[00:30:12] It's very important to use these alcoholic hand sanitizers in everyday life,
[00:30:16] and the regulation even states that 3 ml should be dispensed.
[00:30:20] One needs to take these and rub them properly over the entire
[00:30:23] surface of the hand, just as the WHO guidelines
[00:30:27] show. With the Semmelweis scanner, we are capable of individually
[00:30:31] identifying the person, meaning everyone can use it with their
[00:30:34] own card. Why is this important? Because from this, we know
[00:30:38] exactly who is currently in front of the device. So,
[00:30:42] place your right
[00:30:43] hand.
[00:30:48] Yes, after this, of course, the left
[00:30:51] hand always follows,
[00:30:52] that also needs to be placed.
[00:30:58] And at the end of the digital evaluation, the device
[00:31:01] shows what the... result is what we can see: