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20261105 020000 UTC
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[00:00:25] Viewers, to monitor the current situation, we rejoin Metro TV journalist
[00:00:29] Rona Marina. Good morning, Rona. Welcome back, Rona,
[00:00:32] has the hearing's participants been completed
[00:00:36] and are there any signs that the hearing will
[00:00:38] begin?
[00:00:43] Yes, good Jason, for now, the time is already less than
[00:00:47] 9:00 AM, or it will soon be 9:00 AM Western Indonesian Time, where the hearing for
[00:00:51] the defendant Roya Suryo and also
[00:00:54] presenting former Indonesian President Joko
[00:00:57] Widodo and his aide Syarif Fitri. This started at 9:00 AM Western Indonesian
[00:01:01] Time, and just now I heard Jason, behind me there is an
[00:01:04] LED screen and also speakers that have been provided for
[00:01:07] media crew and supporters from both Jokowi's camp and
[00:01:11] Roi Tifa's camp. This has been provided, and we heard
[00:01:14] that the trial inside has just begun. Well,
[00:01:18] that means if the trial inside has already begun, Jason, that means it's
[00:01:22] complete, right? Everyone who has been brought in, starting from the judge,
[00:01:25] then the legal counsel for the defendant, then also
[00:01:29] JP and the witnesses who are present today. And regarding
[00:01:33] that, Jason, there are also supporters who are allowed to enter,
[00:01:37] namely supporters from Jokowi's camp and Roy's camp itself.
[00:01:40] Well, for Jokowi's camp, only 40 people are allowed to enter the
[00:01:44] courtroom, while for Roy Suryo's camp, only 40
[00:01:48] people are allowed. So, in total, for the supporters who are allowed to enter the courtroom,
[00:01:51] it's only about 80 people, right,
[00:01:54] Jason? And indeed, the situation outside or in the courtyard of
[00:01:58] the East Jakarta District Court. We see that currently
[00:02:02] they are first listening,
[00:02:05] and also
[00:02:07] doubted because at the same time singing the Indonesian national anthem. And
[00:02:11] then also the supporters, both from Jokowi and Roy Suryo, have already
[00:02:15] sat in front of the LED that has been provided. There are two LEDs, on my right
[00:02:18] and left, where they can later watch the course
[00:02:22] of the trial. Well, Jason, about 20 minutes ago,
[00:02:26] we saw the presence of the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia.
[00:02:30] Along with his aide Syarif Fitriyansyah, who
[00:02:32] entered the East Jakarta District Court through the
[00:02:36] gate on my right, where we greeted
[00:02:39] Jokowi earlier, asking if he really
[00:02:43] brought his diploma from his time at Gajah
[00:02:46] Mada University, and also when he was in high school, or even
[00:02:50] from elementary school to university, because this had previously
[00:02:54] been confirmed by Joko Widodo's legal counsel, namely Rifai
[00:02:58] Kusumanegara. Jokowi was asked or
[00:03:01] he will bring all his diplomas from elementary school to
[00:03:05] university to refute the accusations that have
[00:03:08] been made against him or to confirm them.
[00:03:11] In fact, there is a high possibility that Jokowi will also
[00:03:15] tell about his experiences while studying at
[00:03:18] Gadjah Mada University itself. And we are still waiting for these
[00:03:22] proofs together because the trial has just begun, Jason.
[00:03:25] Despite that, Jason, we had a chance to ask Jokowi
[00:03:29] when he was about to enter the courtroom of the East Jakarta District Court
[00:03:33] because our position was also jostled by the crowd of
[00:03:36] Jokowi's enthusiastic supporters who welcomed Jokowi earlier. Despite that,
[00:03:40] Jokowi did not discuss it further or answer questions from the
[00:03:44] media. He only smiled a little and immediately entered
[00:03:48] and will later attend the the East Jakarta District Court. And previously, 10 minutes before
[00:03:52] Jokowi arrived, Roy Suryo's legal counsel, namely
[00:03:56] Refli Harun, also arrived and stated that he still
[00:04:00] believed in what he had defended all this time
[00:04:03] from Roy Suryo's camp. Even if Jokowi brings
[00:04:06] his diploma and tells his experiences, Roy Suryo's camp
[00:04:10] still cannot simply be accused of
[00:04:14] defamation against Jokowi. Therefore,
[00:04:17] memberikan pencemaran nama baik terhadap Jokowi tersebut. Bapak
[00:04:20] Jason, let's wait together for all the points
[00:04:23] or interesting things in the courtroom. That's all,
[00:04:26] Jason. Yes, Rona, today, according to the
[00:04:32] The prosecutor always conveys what agenda, Joko Widodo will also be a witness for Dr. Tifa at 2 PM. Can you
[00:04:36] elaborate further regarding Jokowi's agenda of attending two
[00:04:40] trials at once
[00:04:41] today?
[00:04:46] Yes, Jason, we here
[00:04:48] cannot hear your voice very clearly, Jason, but
[00:04:52] for today's trial, there will indeed
[00:04:55] be two sessions, the first of which this morning started at
[00:04:59] 9 AM. This is.
[00:05:05] what kind of diploma is
[00:05:09] Well, the victim is presented
[00:05:10] here, who is awaited
[00:05:42] It is estimated that there are around 7,000, while for Roy Suryo's side,
[00:05:45] it is estimated that his supporters will come, which is around 1,000 to
[00:05:49] 2,000 people. Therefore, the police also
[00:05:52] deployed their personnel, I mean, they
[00:05:56] deployed their personnel, around
[00:05:57] 6,770
[00:06:00] who are members of the TNI and Polri, more than 5,000 of whom are from the
[00:06:04] Polri, while more than 1,000 are from the TNI to
[00:06:07] secure or anticipate things that
[00:06:10] could happen at the East Jakarta District Court,
[00:06:13] because if we look together, the security of
[00:06:16] the TNI and Polri has also been divided into three rings. The first
[00:06:20] ring is for traffic engineering, which is on the
[00:06:23] main road across from the East Jakarta District Court.
[00:06:27] Then, for security ring two, which is
[00:06:30] right in front of the gate of the East Jakarta District Court, and also ring
[00:06:34] one, which is in the lobby of the East Jakarta District Court
[00:06:37] or right behind me, where anyone who enters
[00:06:41] the room.
[00:07:12] to describe the situation there while moving
[00:07:16] regarding the security and also the condition of supporters from both
[00:07:20] Jokowi's side and Roisuryo's side in
[00:07:23] this witness examination. We will conduct
[00:07:26] a deeper investigation related to the
[00:07:30] description of supporters and also security at the East Jakarta District Court.
[00:07:33] It is indeed quite conducive
[00:07:37] this morning, where they have arrived even before
[00:07:40] 7 AM Western Indonesian Time.
[00:08:12] wants to support
[00:08:23] which is being doubted and attacked by
[00:08:26] the defendant from the police side.
[00:08:30] It also seems
[00:08:33] that they are giving directions, Jason, in front of the East Jakarta District
[00:08:37] Court. Directions for the public who pass through
[00:08:40] the area. all in front of the East Jakarta District Court
[00:08:44] so that they are careful. It must
[00:08:47] be done in accordance with the articles and
[00:08:50] currently we have heard, Jason, regarding the trial that
[00:08:54] has started, where
[00:08:56] it will be as
[00:09:00] we have alleged that this
[00:09:03] is not relevant, who have been
[00:09:07] on guard, allow us to convey
[00:09:11] a message for
[00:09:43] those who are already on guard
[00:09:44] here.
[00:09:49] We will tell you, it's very crowded, so for
[00:09:52] people who are passing through the East Jakarta District Court area, thank you
[00:09:56] for the opportunity to be careful and
[00:09:59] also to pay attention to the traffic
[00:10:03] engineering that was emphasized or conveyed by
[00:10:07] the police.
[00:11:25] still feel that what
[00:11:28] will be proven by
[00:11:31] Jokowi today, even though he has brought
[00:11:35] his diploma, it cannot necessarily be
[00:11:39] confirmed as true. We have prepared 500
[00:11:42] questions, but of course not all
[00:11:45] of these questions can be presented, but we ask, and
[00:11:49] just now also from the side of the defendant,
[00:11:53] it was also said what was inside... We slightly hear that
[00:11:56] from Roy Suryaoni's side, they have also prepared around 500 questions
[00:12:00] that will be given or asked to
[00:12:04] Jokowi's side. That's all, Jason. Thank
[00:12:08] you, Metro TV Journalist Rona Marina, for your live report.
[00:12:12] We will update the trial atmosphere from there later. Good luck
[00:12:15] again. Viewers, the 7th President of the Republic of Indonesia
[00:12:19] is scheduled to appear as a witness in the trial of the alleged defamation and
[00:12:22] slander case that implicated.
[00:12:25] Jokowi's presence is considered an important part of the
[00:12:29] evidentiary process. Direct testimony from the reporting witness can be examined
[00:12:33] through questions from the prosecutor, the panel of judges, or the defendant's
[00:12:37] legal
[00:12:37] counsel.
[00:12:46] An interesting moment will be seen at the East Jakarta District Court, with the presence of
[00:12:50] the 7th President of Indonesia, Joko Widodo, as a reporting
[00:12:53] witness in the alleged defamation and slander case that
[00:12:57] implicated Roy Suryo. Jokowi's testimony in court
[00:13:00] should end the polemic of false diploma allegations
[00:13:04] that continue to create public unrest.
[00:13:07] I highly respect the ongoing legal process.
[00:13:11] If invited,
[00:13:15] God willing,
[00:13:19] I will answer what is asked. That's it.
[00:13:22] I will convey what
[00:13:25] is asked by all parties, both by His Honor the
[00:13:28] Prosecutor and
[00:13:32] by
[00:13:35] the lawyer.
[00:13:38] Not only Jokowi, his aide Syarif Muhammad Fitrian Shah
[00:13:42] will also give testimony in court. Summonses
[00:13:45] for both have been received by Jokowi's side on October
[00:13:49] 27th. Syarif confirmed that both would comply
[00:13:53] with the summons.
[00:13:56] yesterday, Tuesday, we
[00:13:59] received
[00:14:02] a witness summons from the prosecutor's office for Mr.
[00:14:05] Widodo
[00:14:08] and also myself as a witness
[00:14:13] court for the documents. Everything has been seized by
[00:14:17] the police,
[00:14:20] so it will be brought by the prosecutor's office.
[00:14:23] "Jokowi's presence is considered
[00:14:27] an important part of the evidentiary process.
[00:14:30] Direct testimony from the reporting witness can be examined through
[00:14:33] questions from the prosecutor, the panel of judges, or the defendant's
[00:14:36] legal counsel. In addition to witness testimony, the examination of diploma
[00:14:39] documents and digital evidence related to this case is also
[00:14:43] a concern. The prosecutor thinks that
[00:14:47] the prosecutor is a representative of the state, representing
[00:14:50] the community, representing the victim, so in a case
[00:14:53] like this later.
[00:14:57] the victim states, siding with the community,
[00:15:00] right? Siding with the community, well, the legal counsel
[00:15:04] will later think from objective to
[00:15:08] subjective, because for the benefit
[00:15:11] of the defendant, right? Well, therefore, in the two camps
[00:15:15] between objective and subjective, subjective and
[00:15:18] objective, there will be a lively dialogue which is certainly
[00:15:22] certain, because the essence of proof
[00:15:26] is about the diploma, so
[00:15:30] shown, whether you like it or not, it has been seized
[00:15:33] by the prosecutor and presented in a trial.
[00:15:37] This is my original diploma, this is what it's like.
[00:15:40] And that's where we will see,
[00:15:43] see, see closely
[00:15:46] from the prosecutor and legal counsel
[00:15:50] to prove the authenticity of the diploma that
[00:15:54] was challenged. The trial next Thursday will be a moment for
[00:15:58] Jokowi to give direct testimony before the Panel of Judges.
[00:16:01] This evidentiary process also provides a space for all
[00:16:05] parties to test witness testimony and evidence before
[00:16:08] the judge evaluates the legal facts in the case.
[00:16:11] Metro TV News Team.
[00:16:14] We will be back after the break. Stay
[00:16:17] with us on Metro TV Breaking News.
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[00:18:09] Viewers, Roy Suryo's lawyer, Refli Harun, hopes
[00:18:12] that former President Joko Widodo will bring and show his original
[00:18:15] diploma in
[00:18:16] court. The
[00:18:20] case against Dr. Tifa and Roy is based on Mr.
[00:18:23] Jokowi's report, everything, both articles that
[00:18:26] threaten with 9 months in prison
[00:18:30] and up to 12 years in prison, all come from Mr.
[00:18:33] Jokowi's report. Therefore, we will certainly ask him.
[00:19:07] Imagine that up to the 11th trial for Dr.
[00:19:11] Tifa and the 4th for us, the diploma
[00:19:14] never appeared in court. That's very strange
[00:19:18] because usually evidence is always presented, and when someone
[00:19:22] says they have seen it, it will be confronted, is this
[00:19:26] what you mean? Well, we don't know
[00:19:29] the reason. We can probably guess the reason, if we
[00:19:32] believe it's fake, that's why it's never been shown. Well,
[00:19:36] hopefully the trial today confirms everything.
[00:19:39] There are no rigid time limits,
[00:19:43] because we have prepared many questions, there are
[00:19:46] more than 500 questions that we have listed in reality, some may be
[00:19:50] overlapping and so on, but
[00:19:52] of course we will see later. Our concern is time
[00:19:56] and also disturbances from the public prosecutor.
[00:19:59] Hopefully they don't interfere, because we are not
[00:20:02] trying to overthrow,
[00:20:04] demean, or attack Mr. Jokowi or anything. We want
[00:20:08] to ask as lawyers
[00:20:11] and the prosecutor is also
[00:20:15] part of law enforcement. We hope that
[00:20:18] we all respect each other's professions and
[00:20:21] both have the mentality of seeking the truth, not seeking
[00:20:24] justification.
[00:20:26] Sir, you mentioned earlier that there are two criminal threats,
[00:20:30] first 12 years, not two, not two, four, four.
[00:20:33] Is that cumulative or alternative? Alternative?
[00:20:42] Which threat is it leaning towards, sir? So far,
[00:20:45] for so long, I don't want to answer
[00:20:49] that. We
[00:20:52] think and believe that Mas Roy and Dr. Tiva should
[00:20:56] be acquitted. There is not a single article that can be applied
[00:20:59] to them, neither defamation
[00:21:02] because Mas Roy and Dr. Tifa work for
[00:21:06] the public interest, you want to know if all the diplomas are original
[00:21:10] or not, right? Unless you don't care, but as long
[00:21:14] as you care, then this is for the public interest, right? And
[00:21:18] secondly, if it's called slander. Not true, slander is when
[00:21:21] Mas Roy and Dr. Tifa know that the diploma is authentic,
[00:21:25] but they say it's fake, that's slander. But up to
[00:21:29] now, we don't know if the diploma is authentic or fake,
[00:21:33] first, it has never been shown, and second,
[00:21:36] it has never been publicly tested. Well, this is the opportunity. If today
[00:21:39] it is shown and it is authentic, what will be the attitude of the studio? It's like
[00:21:43] this, bro, whether a document is authentic or
[00:21:47] not authentic is not just shown without physical evidence and us.
[00:21:50] I need an execute test. The question is, is Mr.
[00:21:54] Jokowi brave enough to give us all, especially
[00:21:58] Mas Roy, the opportunity to test it
[00:22:01] independently, including an independent testing institution,
[00:22:05] whether it is authentic or not. That's the point.
[00:22:09] Bring in independent experts to
[00:22:12] test it. For example, if it's a claim, for example, this is
[00:22:15] from, excuse me, a claim that there is already
[00:22:19] a music laboratory from the investigator, right? The investigator is
[00:22:22] different because theoretically, they are indeed
[00:22:26] biased towards it in the sense that they are the ones who then create
[00:22:29] the articles of indictment. How can they indict and then
[00:22:33] not be sure of the evidence? Therefore, if
[00:22:37] it's the investigator's perspective, we cannot trust it. If
[00:22:40] it's the public prosecutor's perspective, because in this case, we are in opposition,
[00:22:44] we are at odds. Therefore, there must be a third party who
[00:22:47] is independent to test the diploma. Okay. Okay.
[00:22:51] Later
[00:22:53] it will show what is
[00:22:57] that item has not been presented all this time. What do you think
[00:23:00] will happen? Will your client indeed be ready
[00:23:04] to undergo the legal process? Why are you always
[00:23:08] directing it there? I
[00:23:10] am
[00:23:12] confused.
[00:23:17] Oh no, no, no, first you said,
[00:23:21] are you ready to be punished? I have already
[00:23:24] said that our client is not guilty, our client
[00:23:28] has not committed a single article that can be imposed on
[00:23:31] them because they are working, they are researching based on
[00:23:35] public interest. Secondly, they did not commit slander because whether the diploma is authentic
[00:23:39] or not is still questionable. They
[00:23:42] cannot be charged with the ITE Law
[00:23:45] because there is no physical document testing.
[00:23:50] The electronic document and electronic information
[00:23:53] owned by Mr. Jokowi, the electronic document
[00:23:56] and electronic information belong to Dian Sandi, so
[00:23:59] there are many things we can defend. That's why
[00:24:02] I find your two questions strange. Okay, please, one more question,
[00:24:06] sir. You said that Mr. Jokowi will also say and
[00:24:10] tell about his experiences while studying at UGM and also
[00:24:14] bring the diploma, sir. So what if there is proof of that
[00:24:17] from Roy's side? Proof in
[00:24:21] a trial is one moment,
[00:24:24] one screen of the entire trial
[00:24:27] process. Of course, we will see the quality
[00:24:30] of the evidence, because if you tell a story,
[00:24:34] you can tell A, B, C and so
[00:24:37] on, but later we will cross-check with other witnesses
[00:24:40] and we will also listen again to the statement
[00:24:44] made by criminal law expert Prof. Hipnu
[00:24:47] Nugroho below. And Joko Widodo as
[00:24:51] a witness this time, how important is his testimony to then
[00:24:54] be able to carry out or then seek proof in this trial?
[00:24:57] Yes, in the concept
[00:25:01] of law, the presence as a victim, as
[00:25:05] a plaintiff, is very,
[00:25:08] very important, because in a trial
[00:25:11] there are four indicators, one is the existence of a defense
[00:25:15] which is already ongoing, then there is a public hearing,
[00:25:18] listening. Then,
[00:25:21] evidence and finally
[00:25:25] independence, the independence of a judiciary. Well, as
[00:25:28] a public hearing for the victim,
[00:25:32] that's where the victim who feels that he has filed
[00:25:36] a report, filed a complaint,
[00:25:39] must be present to provide
[00:25:42] an explanation of how he feels about the victim's
[00:25:46] situation, because in a legal context there are four pillars, sir:
[00:25:50] there is the act,
[00:25:52] there is the perpetrator, there is the criminal sanction
[00:25:56] and there is the victim.
[00:26:00] by the public, awaited by the court to
[00:26:04] at least clarify, to at least confront
[00:26:08] with the defendant's statements, confront with
[00:26:11] other witnesses, thus as a concept of justice,
[00:26:15] it is now a concept of justice that seeks
[00:26:18] material truth, the real truth about
[00:26:22] what object is being examined, sir.
[00:26:25] Okay, Hipnu, is Joko Widodo's position currently
[00:26:29] as a plaintiff or, as you said, as a victim? This means that when giving
[00:26:33] testimony, its weight becomes heavier,
[00:26:36] right? To then be able to counter or confront
[00:26:40] what has been said by the defendant
[00:26:43] all this time. Yes, if we look
[00:26:46] at a concept of proof in a
[00:26:49] new paradigm, there is no weight and no, but it has
[00:26:52] the same qualification of proof, it has the same proof
[00:26:56] as other witnesses, it's just that...
[00:26:59] Because this is a form of complaint, a form of certainty,
[00:27:03] a form of classification, a form of seriousness,
[00:27:06] because if we look at the old
[00:27:09] criminal procedural code, the victim who reports
[00:27:13] is actually the first one who
[00:27:16] must be examined, right? Because by being examined for the first time,
[00:27:20] it is to ask whether it should be continued or not, whether there
[00:27:24] is an alternative or not. Well, this is what we see in the first criminal procedural code,
[00:27:27] but with the new criminal procedural code now, it is not.
[00:27:31] All proof is submitted to the public
[00:27:35] prosecutor, that's if we look at Article 160. Therefore, in the
[00:27:38] proof yesterday, the question was, why hasn't Mr. Jokowi been present yet?
[00:27:42] Well, that's part of the prosecutor's strategy for when
[00:27:45] he will be presented, of course, with the permission of the head of the court. Therefore,
[00:27:49] with the panel of judges who asked when
[00:27:52] he would be presented by the legal counsel, today
[00:27:55] he is presented as a form of clarification, as a form
[00:27:59] of confrontation against what has been accused
[00:28:02] all this time, including the evidence presented
[00:28:06] by the legal counsel. Prof. Hipnu also mentioned that later Joko Widodo
[00:28:10] will show his diploma in
[00:28:13] front of the judge. When there is physical evidence of the diploma
[00:28:16] that has been brought, how do you analyze this?
[00:28:20] Will it then immediately refute the
[00:28:24] accusation that has been swirling around until it reached the courtroom?
[00:28:28] Yes, if it is
[00:28:30] a complaint
[00:28:32] against feelings, then the proof is
[00:28:36] sufficient for personal proof.
[00:28:40] personally to the feelings of the victim, but because
[00:28:43] the accusation is defamation
[00:28:47] and slander, slander is about a situation that is
[00:28:50] true or not true about an item, then
[00:28:54] about an item, that diploma new motive
[00:28:57] must be shown,
[00:29:00] viewers of Breaking News Metro TV will return after this, continued
[00:29:04] with my colleague Jessica Walandari, stay with us.
[00:29:20] 26 years of Metro TV, evolving with
[00:29:23] trust, some choose only to be spectators
[00:29:26] of change, but there are also those who choose to step
[00:29:30] in. 26 young Indonesians. with
[00:29:33] ideas 26 days
[00:29:36] 26 stories find inspiration
[00:29:40] in 26th newsperation in
[00:29:43] good morning Indonesia starting 1
[00:29:45] November
[00:29:50] truth is not always easy, truth is not
[00:29:53] always visible, in fact it can come from two different
[00:29:57] sides
[00:29:59] because every story has more than one. This legal point of view
[00:30:03] means that people are not just arrested, this
[00:30:07] is a stake for our survival as a nation, listening and testing
[00:30:10] statements from cover both sides every Wednesday
[00:30:14] live at 9 PM
[00:30:18] this Saturday it has been more than a decade since women all
[00:30:22] over the world had the right to choose, but the struggle
[00:30:25] towards equality is not over, even though more women are leading
[00:30:29] countries, their representation in the political world is still limited.
[00:30:32] in the midst of deeply ingrained stereotypes, how do they survive and
[00:30:36] lead
[00:30:38] taking the lead in her women
[00:30:42] in Asia Saturday 7 November at 7
[00:30:45] AM.
[00:30:47] we invite you to explore the amazing world of science, see you again in
[00:30:51] innovators with me Rizki Nugraha studying the movement of
[00:30:54] ants to unravel traffic jams
[00:30:58] testing robots to overcome.