METROTV — broadcast
20261105 140000 UTC
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[00:00:00] Buy now, there's a free down payment promo,
[00:00:04] free BPHTB, free AJB, limited
[00:00:07] units, buy now and you're sure
[00:00:09] to profit. Tonight
[00:00:13] in controversy, the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency has named former National Police Chief Listyo
[00:00:17] Sigit along with two high-ranking police officers as suspects in the alleged wiretapping case of
[00:00:21] President Prabowo Subianto without
[00:00:23] the target number legal procedure, illegal access, and deletion of electronic data.
[00:00:26] How can a state wiretapping system be used without proper procedure?
[00:00:30] to know about the political Who should be held responsible when state instruments are allegedly
[00:00:33] misused? Uncivilized president wiretapped in
[00:00:44] news: a 2-story house for only 900
[00:00:47] million.
[00:00:50] Pringarden, beautiful scenery, cool
[00:00:53] air, makes you healthy and young.
[00:00:57] Located at the foot of Mount Panca.
[00:01:08] protect the equipment
[00:01:27] hardware and software that
[00:01:33] announced the naming of new suspects in the alleged illegal wiretapping case of
[00:01:37] Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto and other figures.
[00:01:40] The new suspect is
[00:01:42] SU.
[00:01:48] Viewers, SU was recorded as having been the Head of Monitoring at
[00:01:51] the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency. Investigators have found elements of unlawful
[00:01:54] acts allegedly committed by SU. From the case review,
[00:01:58] it was known that two suspects. Eh and also S
[00:02:01] as always asked for permission from SU
[00:02:04] for wiretapping and deletion of wiretapping results. The police ensure
[00:02:08] that the team's work will be conveyed transparently and accountably to
[00:02:25] occasion,
[00:02:27] we, the investigators of the Cybercrime Directorate of the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency,
[00:02:30] will convey the development of the
[00:02:34] investigation
[00:02:36] regarding the status upgrade
[00:02:38] to suspect
[00:02:40] for initials SU, who was previously
[00:02:44] still a witness. Based on the results of the
[00:02:48] case review, the investigators concluded that
[00:02:52] SU has fulfilled the elements
[00:02:55] of an unlawful act.
[00:02:58] The role of suspect SU is as an advisory
[00:03:01] board member of the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency,
[00:03:04] where the person concerned once
[00:03:07] served as Head of Monitoring
[00:03:10] or Head of Monitoring for the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency
[00:03:13] from 2010 until
[00:03:16] 2019.
[00:03:18] Up
[00:03:21] contacted whom to this
[00:03:23] wiretapping was done point, the Head of Monitoring
[00:03:25] is suspect EH and AS, if they were
[00:03:29] to carry out
[00:03:39] wiretapping, they had to get permission from SU. In early October 2026, suspect AS asked
[00:03:43] for permission to delete wiretapping
[00:03:46] results from SU, and suspect
[00:03:49] SU deleted the
[00:03:53] wiretapping results file
[00:03:55] so far. We need to inform
[00:03:59] our media colleagues that
[00:04:02] official release list, to date, the number of suspects in this case
[00:04:05] is four people, three of whom are detained at the Brimob
[00:04:09] headquarters.
[00:04:13] As for suspect SU, currently we cannot detain
[00:04:17] him because he is in a sick
[00:04:21] condition after
[00:04:30] Iskandar.
[00:04:30] We
[00:04:37] accompany you from afternoon until evening with actual and
[00:04:41] quality news. The hottest information of the day
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[00:04:46] developments. Metro today,
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[00:05:03] The
[00:05:06] events of the week, thousands
[00:05:09] of incidents, important issues.
[00:05:16] More than just
[00:05:17] headlines,
[00:05:21] a summary of selected events we present
[00:05:24] to give you a bigger
[00:05:26] picture.
[00:05:29] Metro This Week every Sunday at
[00:05:32] midnight.
[00:05:42] night.
[00:05:49] against these suspects they allegedly
[00:05:52] conducted wiretapping without procedural
[00:05:56] or illegal tapping on the phone numbers of
[00:05:59] the President of the Republic of Indonesia, state
[00:06:02] officials, political figures, then media, community
[00:06:06] organizations, NGOs, and
[00:06:09] entrepreneurs. The modus operandi was during the period
[00:06:12] of 2025 and 2026, the suspects
[00:06:16] allegedly ordered wiretapping
[00:06:19] of investigators or attached
[00:06:23] police reports, which was then followed by wiretapping unrelated
[00:06:26] to law and
[00:06:30] deleting log traces on number 2026
[00:06:34] to eliminate those
[00:06:36] traces.
[00:06:39] Please be patient. Later,
[00:06:42] the investigators will explain
[00:06:46] what the wiretapping was for, for what purpose. Until
[00:06:49] today, it cannot be announced because it is still under
[00:06:53] further investigation,
[00:06:56] but as far as the act
[00:06:59] of wiretapping itself is concerned, it
[00:07:02] is a criminal act.
[00:07:07] Indeed, an investigation must be conducted. This is not just
[00:07:11] a mere wiretapping. It's just a perception. Later, it must also
[00:07:14] be analyzed and the facts must be found, whether they
[00:07:18] exist or not. And now, as I said earlier, there is already
[00:07:21] initial evidence that points to us.
[00:07:26] being investigated has increased, but their status has not yet been
[00:07:30] determined. So there are no
[00:07:31] new suspects.
[00:07:34] This morning, Mr. President has made
[00:07:38] a decision and has signed the presidential
[00:07:41] decree concerning
[00:07:44] the dismissal of Mr.
[00:07:47] Listyo Prabowo in his capacity as Chief of
[00:07:50] Staff of the Presidency. And this
[00:07:53] concerns the head of state, concerns
[00:07:56] state officials. Well, this is
[00:08:00] something that is extraordinary, you know.
[00:08:04] So we don't understand what the
[00:08:07] motive and
[00:08:09] purpose are.
[00:08:16] An uncivilized president was wiretapped, that's the topic of controversy today with me,
[00:08:20] Zilvia Iskandar. Viewers, four speakers are already here
[00:08:24] to discuss today's topic. On my right is Deputy 3
[00:08:28] of Bakom RI, Kurnia Ramadana. Mr. Kurnia, how are
[00:08:32] on controversy. Then there is also cyber
[00:08:35] security expert Mr. Rubi Alamsyah. Mr. Rubi, how are you? Good,
[00:08:38] ma'am. And next to my left is the former head.
[00:08:46] Thank you for being on controversy. Thank you too. And next is
[00:08:49] the Executive Director of Parameter Politik Indonesia, Mr. Adi Praito. Mr. Adi,
[00:08:53] welcome back to controversy, but we're not discussing diplomas,
[00:08:57] we're discussing wiretapping. Okay,
[00:09:00] before I start, viewers, there is new information that
[00:09:04] the Chief of Police, General Suyudi Ario Seto, stated that the handling
[00:09:08] of the illegal wiretapping case is purely a law enforcement
[00:09:11] process and is not related to competition or certain interests within
[00:09:15] the institution. The Chief of Police also asked all ranks to remain focused
[00:09:19] on maintaining public security and
[00:09:21] order.
[00:09:23] The arrest of
[00:09:27] several police officers related to the
[00:09:31] wiretapping case that we are currently
[00:09:34] handling, and this
[00:09:38] certainly
[00:09:40] needs to be a lesson for all of us.
[00:09:43] And we want
[00:09:47] the police to remain solid, to remain
[00:09:51] a pillar of society, and we
[00:09:54] are confident that the police are very
[00:09:58] solid and of course, for all
[00:10:01] members throughout Indonesia, to continue to work
[00:10:04] well, carry out duties diligently, maintain
[00:10:08] public order, always with the community according to our
[00:10:11] slogan, the slogan and all of us
[00:10:14] that is police with the community, and we
[00:10:17] assure you that this is purely a form of law
[00:10:20] enforcement that has no connection
[00:10:23] with... competition or anything
[00:10:26] else, but this is purely for the good
[00:10:29] of the police institution that we love in order
[00:10:33] to provide service and protection to society, nation, and
[00:10:36] state. Well, Mr. Susno, I'll go to you first. In the history of
[00:10:40] the Indonesian National Police, is the wiretapping case allegedly
[00:10:43] carried out by former Chief of Police Listyo Sigit Prabowo and his subordinates against
[00:10:47] President Prabowo Subianto and also a number of important figures in
[00:10:50] this republic considered a
[00:10:54] historical event? The biggest violation ever committed by a high-ranking police
[00:10:58] official, even its impact is greater than the
[00:11:01] Sambo and Teddy Minahasa cases. Yes, if I say this is not a case,
[00:11:05] but a tragedy. If perhaps what happened
[00:11:08] in the Sunda Strait erupted,
[00:11:11] this Anak Krakatoa will have an even greater impact,
[00:11:15] because it was done by the first person in
[00:11:18] the police ranks, the highest rank, the highest position. There is no
[00:11:22] other in the police ranks besides the Chief of Police. The highest,
[00:11:26] the most powerful, who should
[00:11:30] be the one to
[00:11:33] bought by the people for hundreds of billions
[00:11:36] for law enforcement. That equipment
[00:11:39] is legal in the police, bought by the people,
[00:11:43] people's money. Its purpose is to
[00:11:46] wiretap, not to fry
[00:11:50] bananas, but to wiretap. Now, who was wiretapped?
[00:11:53] People who are suspected of committing crimes,
[00:11:57] terrorists, drugs, and what's
[00:12:00] its name, corruption and
[00:12:03] other international crimes such as human trafficking and so on.
[00:12:07] But according to the applicable laws and regulations and
[00:12:11] applicable procedures, it has never
[00:12:14] happened before. He has never
[00:12:18] done anything similar. He has the authority, even though he has the
[00:12:21] authority, the law regulates how to wiretap. Okay, there are rules.
[00:12:25] But he did that. He should know exactly that this is not allowed.
[00:12:28] No matter who he is, why did he do that? Because as far as I know, sir,
[00:12:32] a police chief is usually very subordinate
[00:12:36] to his superiors, and his superior is the president, of course. Yes,
[00:12:39] but why did this happen, sir, in your opinion? Well, this is what I can't understand.
[00:12:43] I've been pondering, even when I sleep, I can't understand.
[00:12:47] "Satya Prabu," loyal to
[00:12:50] the leader of this country, loyal to the country, why did
[00:12:53] he do that? This
[00:12:56] is what we will be able to answer. I am
[00:12:59] sure under the leadership of the current police chief,
[00:13:03] the investigators will investigate this thoroughly. Why
[00:13:07] do I say this is not finished yet? First, I said from the beginning
[00:13:10] that the perpetrators will definitely increase, both internal police and
[00:13:14] outside the police. Why are there definitely
[00:13:17] outsiders? Because the users of the wiretapped information
[00:13:21] are, I am absolutely sure, not...
[00:13:25] ending with Mr. Sigit. Why would he collect
[00:13:28] that? The police chief's job is not to. So you think Mr. Sigit doesn't
[00:13:32] have personal interests or personal motives to do this wiretapping?
[00:13:36] He does. If he doesn't have personal interests, he would wiretap officially,
[00:13:40] right? Well, this is because what was wiretapped was not for
[00:13:43] official purposes, not for law enforcement purposes. Therefore,
[00:13:48] outside the legal provisions, so he was charged with two
[00:13:52] articles of the Criminal Code plus one article of the ITE Law. His personal interests
[00:13:55] for himself or at the command of others,
[00:13:58] this is what we need to investigate. And I'm sure Ms.
[00:14:01] Silvia knows better than I do. Usually journalists are like turtles in
[00:14:05] a boat.
[00:14:09] Okay, in that case, I'll turn to Mr. Kurdia here. Mr. Kurdia,
[00:14:12] how exactly did President Prabowo react when he first received
[00:14:16] Yes, of course
[00:14:19] the president was shocked, disappointed, and very
[00:14:22] angry about the incident...
[00:14:25] two criminal acts that today involve four
[00:14:29] high-ranking police officers, as Mr. Susno
[00:14:32] mentioned, one of the four perpetrators
[00:14:35] is the former head
[00:14:38] of the Indonesian National Police. The police
[00:14:42] institution administratively is
[00:14:45] under the executive branch of power.
[00:14:48] The Chief of Police is appointed and
[00:14:51] dismissed by the President of the Republic of Indonesia.
[00:14:55] So why is it that the wiretapping target
[00:14:59] is his own superior, who is also the head of state
[00:15:02] and head of government at the same time? Even,
[00:15:05] Ms. Silvia, not only the head of state
[00:15:08] was the target of the wiretapping,
[00:15:12] according to the statement of the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency, which
[00:15:15] was also shown by Metro TV, there are NGOs,
[00:15:19] there are community organizations, there are
[00:15:22] businessmen, even there are media. Of course, this raises
[00:15:26] the question of what is the background
[00:15:29] or what is behind the thoughts of these four
[00:15:32] police generals when committing unlawful
[00:15:36] acts, and today
[00:15:46] Yes, this is an extremely
[00:15:49] extraordinary criminal act. The former police chief
[00:15:53] was, a few weeks
[00:15:56] before being named a new suspect,
[00:16:00] entrusted by the President of the Republic of Indonesia
[00:16:03] to lead the institution of the President's Chief of Staff.
[00:16:08] Therefore, there are various actions taken by
[00:16:11] the government, one of which is administrative
[00:16:14] action by replacing Mr.
[00:16:17] Listyo Sigit Prabowo as Head of KSP
[00:16:20] with the acting official Gurnia.
[00:16:24] A video circulated of President Prabowo Subianto speaking at a cabinet meeting
[00:16:27] on November 6,
[00:16:29] 2024.
[00:16:32] Its content was more or less to tell his ministers to be careful when communicating
[00:16:35] with the president via phone.
[00:16:38] Because the president said there were many ears that wanted
[00:16:41] to hear. Well, there are sensitive
[00:16:44] things that should not be discussed over the phone because there are many
[00:16:48] ears that want to hear. Does that mean the president
[00:16:51] already felt, already saw indications of wiretapping?
[00:16:55] Yes, of course, with today's technological developments, the potential
[00:16:59] for wiretapping is not
[00:17:02] a new story, actually. However, what is quite surprising
[00:17:06] is that the object of illegal wiretapping is precisely
[00:17:10] aimed at the President of the Republic of Indonesia. Therefore,
[00:17:13] the president asked the Indonesian
[00:17:16] National Police to investigate thoroughly,
[00:17:19] as thoroughly as possible, transparently, as transparently
[00:17:23] as possible, so that there is a deterrent
[00:17:26] effect, a deterrent effect on the perpetrators. Then, second,
[00:17:30] so that events, if I may quote the title from Metro
[00:17:34] TV, this uncivilized event... will not
[00:17:37] be repeated in the future, Ms. Silvia. In
[00:17:41] criminal law literature, perpetrators
[00:17:43] of crimes are classified into several categories: one, those who
[00:17:47] commit crimes; two, those who aid
[00:17:51] in committing crimes; and three, those who order
[00:17:55] the commission of criminal acts. Therefore,
[00:17:58] all classifications of criminal perpetrators are being
[00:18:02] investigated by the police, such as the recent
[00:18:06] announcement of one suspect,
[00:18:09] a two-star general, and the police have formed
[00:18:13] a special team because this has become the attention of
[00:18:16] all of Indonesian society and is led by
[00:18:20] the Head of the National Police Criminal Investigation Agency. It's natural, Ms. Silvia, not only the president
[00:18:24] is angry, I think all Indonesian society is very
[00:18:27] angry to see this incident, and the perpetrators must
[00:18:31] be held accountable for their unlawful acts in
[00:18:34] the legal process. Even people are asking, if
[00:18:38] the president himself can be wiretapped, what about us ordinary people? But before that,
[00:18:41] I want Mr. Adi to see that besides
[00:18:44] the shock from the legal aspect, it also shakes
[00:18:48] the political aspect. Before I get to Mr. Adi's question, I will
[00:18:52] first play the statement from the Coordinating Minister for
[00:18:56] Political, Legal, and Security Affairs, Imipas, regarding the
[00:18:59] alleged motive behind this wiretapping.
[00:19:03] An investigation must indeed be conducted. This is not just a mere
[00:19:07] wiretapping perception. Later, it also needs
[00:19:10] to be analyzed and the facts searched for, whether they
[00:19:13] exist or not. And now, as I said earlier, there is already
[00:19:17] initial evidence that points to an act,
[00:19:20] and the president said that strict law
[00:19:24] enforcement must be carried out, especially if
[00:19:27] facts are found, evidence that this is not
[00:19:30] just wiretapping, but leads
[00:19:32] to indications of strengthening treason. Who
[00:19:36] actually benefits?
[00:19:39] Behind this wiretapping, Mr. Adi, well, I think if we talk about who benefits,
[00:19:43] it's those who do not like
[00:19:46] and, of course, those who hate the government and
[00:19:49] the president, so this illegal wiretapping is done
[00:19:52] so consistently, right? Because if we listen
[00:19:56] to the statements from Baraskrim, it started since 2025,
[00:19:59] Zilvia, a long enough time, and of course this is by design, not
[00:20:03] something that is accidental. Well, the
[00:20:05] second, if we listen to a number of political statements,
[00:20:09] right, this leads to indications and acts of treason, right? Like
[00:20:13] that. It's not just Mr. Yusril who says it, Prasetyo Hadi also
[00:20:16] said it, right? And even the Secretary General of an opposition party like Mr.
[00:20:20] Hasto, he said that this is a strong
[00:20:23] indication that it will lead to acts of treason. This means that in the context
[00:20:27] of illegal wiretapping of the president, almost no one
[00:20:30] can deny that this is something extraordinary and
[00:20:34] certainly leads to acts of treason, even though Mr.
[00:20:39] earlier that the articles charged are still only two articles of the Criminal Code
[00:20:42] and then the ITE Law. And we just have to
[00:20:46] wait for the progress report regarding the development
[00:20:50] of the investigation regarding this disclosure. But for me, in principle, this
[00:20:53] actually confirms the behind-the-scenes stories,
[00:20:57] the stories that have been in coffee shops all this time,
[00:21:01] that wiretapping really happened. Our experience as activists
[00:21:05] back then, if we wanted to consolidate political movements among activists
[00:21:08] or students, we usually didn't want to use cell phones, even if the cell phones weren't
[00:21:12] very sophisticated, because it was very risky and very vulnerable to
[00:21:15] being wiretapped by unscrupulous individuals and certain parties who wanted
[00:21:20] movements carried out by a number of activists and students. Even a few
[00:21:23] days ago, Mrs. Megawati Sukonoputri said
[00:21:26] that the most important thing is when you don't want to use a cell phone
[00:21:30] because it is considered a target for wiretapping and so on. That's
[00:21:34] what I think is something that is ironic,
[00:21:38] and hopefully law enforcement will truly
[00:21:41] be enforced, and the most important thing is that all of this is concrete and clear.
[00:21:44] All processes, all of this becomes a lesson so that such
[00:21:48] things will not happen again. Okay, Mr. Rubi, I have already
[00:21:51] said that people are now starting to worry that if a president can be
[00:21:55] wiretapped, let alone ordinary people. But my question
[00:21:58] to Mr. Rubi is, the wiretapping that we have just
[00:22:02] come to know in the last few days is called the LIMS
[00:22:05] system, lawful interception management system. Is this system
[00:22:09] prone to misuse? LIMS
[00:22:13] is indeed
[00:22:17] is placed at the operator in any
[00:22:20] country. As long as that country has wiretapping
[00:22:24] laws, where telecommunication operators
[00:22:27] must comply with those rules, so they prepare
[00:22:31] the LIMS system. Now, the LIMS
[00:22:35] will access the operator's
[00:22:38] core system, and
[00:22:41] on this side, it can be accessed by law
[00:22:45] enforcement officials who have cooperated, who have, cellular operators, you mean, Mr.?
[00:22:49] Any communication operator. Now,
[00:22:53] from LIMS, it can be accessed by all law enforcement agencies. Each law enforcement agency has
[00:22:56] access. Now, each law enforcement agency has
[00:22:59] access, using a system called a monitoring center.
[00:23:02] Now, from this monitoring center, they control the LIMS
[00:23:06] so that LIMS requests or accesses
[00:23:10] telecommunication data
[00:23:12] of their customers. The target number is entered, the duration is entered,
[00:23:16] and then what else? The required output.
[00:23:20] Because from LIMS, from the
[00:23:23] operator, it will
[00:23:25] produce a total of three
[00:23:29] basic data. One is voice,
[00:23:32] voice. That's in LIMS, the
[00:23:35] H1, the HI1. Now,
[00:23:39] the HI2 is
[00:23:41] SMS, SMS. Now, the HI3
[00:23:45] is IP or internet
[00:23:49] protocol.
[00:23:53] Not WhatsApp, so it's in the IP here. But what goes
[00:23:56] into the data in the IP CDR IPDR at
[00:23:59] the operator is not the content of WhatsApp
[00:24:02] that can be read like this because WhatsApp is encrypted, right? So
[00:24:06] the data is scrambled, but it will show who
[00:24:11] and when. The
[00:24:15] time stamp. And then,
[00:24:19] just the header data without
[00:24:22] the content. If it's content, if it's related to WhatsApp, Telegram, and so on, that's a different
[00:24:26] wiretapping technique using another method, not using LIMS, not this LIMS.
[00:24:30] But the point is, this LIMS, actually it's not the LIMS that is prone to misuse,
[00:24:34] but the unscrupulous
[00:24:37] individuals who can give orders to
[00:24:41] the people working behind LIMS. These unscrupulous individuals can exist
[00:24:44] or see an opportunity
[00:24:46] because we also have
[00:24:50] laws to regulate wiretapping, but
[00:24:54] there are no definite
[00:24:56] rules on who conducts audits of the wiretapping
[00:25:00] process that is in accordance with the law,
[00:25:03] because there are people who see it, if there are unscrupulous individuals
[00:25:07] involved, they can misuse it for any purpose.
[00:25:10] So if people are worried, it's normal, right?
[00:25:14] It's normal to worry. The audit is so weak,
[00:25:18] it's hard to supervise, it depends on the individual. If the individual is good,
[00:25:21] it's good, but if not, we're out of luck.
[00:25:25] That's right, so indeed if
[00:25:28] if citizens or ordinary people
[00:25:31] are targeted, it's usually journalists or activists
[00:25:35] and so on, or ordinary people, if it's
[00:25:38] targeted, but it's really that easy to wiretap? It's really
[00:25:42] that easy because of LIMS earlier, but LIMS is only
[00:25:45] one method, one technique, right? There are still two more
[00:25:49] techniques. Which
[00:25:52] can be worse than LIMS itself.
[00:25:56] Yes, if LIMS only requires entering the phone number,
[00:26:00] we imagine we have to install a certain device on the phone, it's not like that.
[00:26:03] Yes, if
[00:26:06] if LIMS just requires entering the number. target as long as we know
[00:26:10] target number one but there are obstacles
[00:26:13] usually if it's LIMS, if he uses the phone constantly for
[00:26:16] any purpose, whether it's general or
[00:26:20] secret, LIMS will get it. But LIMS won't be useful if
[00:26:26] being targeted doesn't contain content that is
[00:26:30] interesting or related to a crime. So
[00:26:40] just use another number, right? Another registered number, so that won't
[00:26:44] be known. Well, LIMS just, but
[00:26:47] interestingly, from the three data earlier,
[00:26:50] voice, SMS, and internet data,
[00:26:54] if these three are analyzed in depth, it
[00:26:57] becomes a big data to get
[00:27:00] a detailed profile, Ms.
[00:29:14] wiretapped, eh, God
[00:29:17] knows. What I
[00:29:20] just heard is that the president and
[00:29:23] a number of ministers and a number of politicians.
[00:29:27] So I don't know yet whether the vice president was also wiretapped
[00:29:31] or not? He's ready, professor, such matters
[00:29:34] are not
[00:29:37] wiretapped, eh, God
[00:29:39] knows. What
[00:29:43] I just heard is that the president and
[00:29:46] a number of ministers and a number of politicians, so
[00:29:50] I don't know yet whether the vice president was also wiretapped or
[00:29:53] not.
[00:29:56] Mas Adi, Vice President Gibran is not on the list of people being wiretapped. What's your
[00:30:00] political reading? First, of course, we have to wait for the
[00:30:05] which was revealed by the Criminal Investigation Unit, of course, because what's circulating on
[00:30:09] social media is assumptive and speculative. Of course, I
[00:30:12] also hope that it doesn't lead to
[00:30:15] wild predictions. At least there's a list
[00:30:19] of who is on the wiretap list, Silvia,
[00:30:22] so that there are no attempts to pit people against each other about who should
[00:30:26] be wiretapped or not. Well, secondly, that usual statement is interesting.
[00:30:29] God knows, there's a continuation to that, God knows. So
[00:30:33] only God and Allah know everything. If you want to
[00:30:36] continue with Mr. Yus, only God and the perpetrator know
[00:30:40] what the motive is, right? That's the diplomatic
[00:30:42] statement of someone like Mr.