N1BOS — broadcast
20260808 160000 UTC
546 transcript segments
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[00:00:07] with some indications, British policy here towards Bosnia and Herzegovina, is it possible
[00:00:10] to expect now a different commitment from Britain for
[00:00:14] this country? Well, you see, the British are capable, if the Americans say,
[00:00:17] the British are capable of turning around in 24 hours. That's not
[00:00:21] debatable for me. However, the question is
[00:00:24] to identify what their interests would be now. I don't think
[00:00:28] they have decided yet themselves.
[00:00:30] Because Britain is also in a bad state as a country.
[00:00:34] So, when talking about these British interests,
[00:00:37] it should be noted that it's actually about the interests
[00:00:41] of an oligarchy that is primarily connected to the City of
[00:00:45] London, that is, to the London Stock Exchange, which
[00:00:48] was the largest in the world. I don't know if it still
[00:00:51] is, I cannot confirm that. It's
[00:00:55] connected to a British oligarchy
[00:00:58] that primarily consists of their
[00:01:01] aristocracy. So, the people in Britain
[00:01:04] live very poorly, like in most European
[00:01:08] countries, but that
[00:01:11] oligarchy has really implemented
[00:01:14] its plans. Now, whether they
[00:01:18] made a U-turn or not, I really wouldn't
[00:01:21] go that far. I think now is a period
[00:01:25] of a geopolitical vacuum when it's not clear
[00:01:28] to anyone, "who creates, who actually creates this new order.
[00:01:32] You say Trump doesn't care about Europe, what does he care about,
[00:01:35] and can we witness something that now sounds
[00:01:39] insane, actually an American-Russian agreement, not just about Ukraine,
[00:01:43] which is current, but about the whole world,
[00:01:46] including, here, the region of the Balkans, well, here
[00:01:49] our country, Bosnia and it's possible,
[00:01:52] it's possible, because the war in Ukraine was started
[00:01:55] in such a way that it actually, in the final
[00:01:58] instance, harms Europe." That's something that Britain
[00:02:02] and the United States did together. How is that harmful, you think?
[00:02:06] Didn't Britain, Russia actually attacked,
[00:02:09] attacked Ukraine, and look, that's the popular version, however,
[00:02:12] in reality, Ukraine
[00:02:16] had been attacking its own
[00:02:19] provinces inhabited by Russian population for six full
[00:02:23] months, bombing them continuously, keeping
[00:02:26] them under siege and so on, Donetsk, Luhansk.
[00:02:31] I'm not justifying, I just want to say that Russia entered
[00:02:34] somewhat reluctantly into all
[00:02:37] that, but the point is that
[00:02:41] Ukraine was pushed to
[00:02:44] provoke Russia to attack Russia with
[00:02:47] ideas that Russia should be divided into several
[00:02:50] parts. Such were the plans, it was
[00:02:54] seriously discussed in Washington and London that
[00:02:57] Russia, under sanctions and
[00:03:00] under pressure, attacked by
[00:03:03] Ukraine, or rather, at war with Ukraine, which had
[00:03:07] the strongest army in Europe, would eventually lead to
[00:03:10] the collapse of Russia itself, to its division into three or four
[00:03:14] parts. Is Ukraine awaiting a new Dayton? Well, I'm afraid
[00:03:18] Ukraine is in an even worse state than Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:03:21] once was. It's on the verge of bankruptcy,
[00:03:24] and it's said that in February,
[00:03:28] bankruptcy is almost certain.
[00:03:32] "Are they facing some kind of Dayton? Well, I think
[00:03:35] they are facing some kind of
[00:03:38] plan that will be
[00:03:40] similar to Dayton in
[00:03:43] terms of
[00:03:45] division proposals, but the question is who wants
[00:03:48] division. I again ask if the Russians
[00:03:52] really want the division of Ukraine. I
[00:03:54] personally want it, they are asking for it, I personally think that they do not
[00:03:58] want it." The Russians have said many
[00:04:01] times, some of their diplomats, some of their professors
[00:04:05] and so on, we
[00:04:07] have no reason to ask for that, because we
[00:04:10] need Ukraine as a buffer
[00:04:13] zone between us and Putin. I'm saying Putin officially demands
[00:04:17] parts of Ukraine, well, that's the direction things are
[00:04:21] going now, it's entirely possible it will
[00:04:24] end that way, if Russia estimates that it cannot
[00:04:27] win that war as it intended.
[00:04:31] "Then it will agree to that, however, with
[00:04:34] Ukraine it will truly be very bad.
[00:04:37] You're saying that an American-Russian agreement is possible
[00:04:40] on everything, including the Balkans. How would
[00:04:44] that agreement look? You say Americans
[00:04:46] on likely working towards are interested in the Western Hemisphere, where are we? We always
[00:04:49] believe
[00:04:53] that we are in the Western and belong to the
[00:04:56] West. We believe in NATO, you
[00:05:00] say, you wonder, what else can we hope for but the European Union and
[00:05:03] NATO? Well, you see, the European Union truly doesn't have a very
[00:05:07] long perspective.
[00:05:10] This can be seen from the economic indicators. I won't go into
[00:05:14] that now, economists will do it much better than
[00:05:17] me, but the main countries there,
[00:05:20] like Germany and France, are in a very bad
[00:05:23] economic state. This also applies
[00:05:26] to Britain, of course. So,
[00:05:29] I think, it's simply no longer the
[00:05:32] European Union we used to talk about. The whole world is
[00:05:36] collapsing, the whole world order is collapsing, primarily on
[00:05:39] an economic level. Well, I understand that we
[00:05:43] belong to the Russian sphere. Well, you see,
[00:05:47] that's possible, however, I don't think the Russians
[00:05:50] are primarily interested in this part
[00:05:54] of the world. They have their stakes
[00:05:57] in Croatia. They have bought a lot in
[00:06:00] Croatia, they have bought a lot in Serbia, however,
[00:06:04] the fact is that the situation is not the same with Bosnia and
[00:06:08] Herzegovina. Here Russian influence is not
[00:06:11] seen in that way.
[00:06:18] Well, you know who supports Dodik. I have always claimed that
[00:06:22] Dodik was, first and foremost, brought by the British and Americans
[00:06:25] together. Now we've seen them put him on
[00:06:29] their blacklist, the Americans. But look
[00:06:32] how they removed him without any
[00:06:35] problems. The Americans removed him without any problems
[00:06:38] because simply a common
[00:06:42] line was found
[00:06:45] here. I want to again mention that so-called
[00:06:48] sovereigntism, right? Dodik played that card very smartly,
[00:06:52] he supposedly fights for
[00:06:55] self-determination, for sovereigntism and so on, against globalism
[00:06:59] and the like. In fact, that
[00:07:02] sovereigntism is a struggle
[00:07:05] actually
[00:07:07] for the power of the far right in
[00:07:10] the world. It's a... "I will call it a black
[00:07:13] international like the one from the 1930s.
[00:07:16] And Trump and
[00:07:19] Dodik and Putin recognized
[00:07:23] themselves in this. Orban is there, and
[00:07:27] Modi from India and so on. The world is moving in
[00:07:30] that direction. I wrote about that a few
[00:07:34] years ago in my book Nations and Capitals. I
[00:07:38] wrote a very interesting theory actually
[00:07:41] that..." that nationalism and capitalism
[00:07:44] live in a very
[00:07:47] direct, very direct
[00:07:49] relationship, that actually nationalism and capitalism
[00:07:53] cannot, cannot, cannot exist without each other,
[00:07:57] without each other. You say that nationalism cannot arise without capitalism,
[00:08:00] and even that capitalism cannot
[00:08:03] survive without nationalism. Yes, but in
[00:08:06] all that, in that context, I want to say, the last
[00:08:10] chapter I wrote about the arrival of
[00:08:13] hypercapitalism as we have it today. Hypercapitalism
[00:08:16] needs a different kind of nationalism, no longer liberal
[00:08:20] democratic, "so-called"
[00:08:23] nationalism, but authoritarian
[00:08:26] nationalism, that is fascism, Nazism, some
[00:08:29] kind of right-wing nationalism that will be
[00:08:33] based on authoritarian principles.
[00:08:35] The point is, therefore,
[00:08:39] nationalism is needed by capitalism. Let me explain
[00:08:42] so... just so it's not some arbitrary claim of mine.
[00:08:46] First of all, it's needed because capitalism has
[00:08:49] a self-destructive mechanism that is built into it, which is to
[00:08:53] continuously create an ever-wider gap between the rich
[00:08:57] and the poor. For society to survive,
[00:09:01] for capitalism as a system to be able to survive,
[00:09:04] nationalism acts as a kind
[00:09:07] of bridge between the rich
[00:09:10] and the poor, creating the illusion that everyone belongs to the same
[00:09:13] nation, that everyone has the same rights and so on,
[00:09:17] although, of course, only a very small percentage
[00:09:20] takes for itself from all
[00:09:23] that income, the rest live very poorly.
[00:09:26] However, nationalism creates that idea that everyone is part
[00:09:30] of the same nation. You say that Dodik recognized
[00:09:33] that and played it out well, let's finish that,
[00:09:37] but I want to translate all of that into language. With the hypercapitalism
[00:09:41] we have today in the world, simply
[00:09:44] that ordinary nationalism as we knew it with democratic
[00:09:48] systems, is no longer enough. That
[00:09:52] authoritarian nationalism is needed. So, I also wrote
[00:09:55] about Trump very
[00:09:58] there no longer being elections in the United States, that it
[00:10:02] will simply be the last
[00:10:04] democratically elected president, when in the future
[00:10:08] efforts will be made to simply, as in other
[00:10:11] countries, emerge from elections. Go out now, and maybe you won't even
[00:10:15] vote again. Well, that's roughly it, and I think that's something that is
[00:10:19] being prepared in most countries, that it's something that
[00:10:22] stands before all of us as not innocence, because
[00:10:26] we are simply moving in the direction of that
[00:10:29] hypercapitalism which then demands that kind
[00:10:32] of nationalism which is ultimately how this all fits together.
[00:10:36] It's certainly no coincidence that Dodik
[00:10:39] in recent months very
[00:10:42] intensively calls Bosniaks, a constituent people in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
[00:10:46] Muslims. And his lobbyists, not
[00:10:50] just his lobbyists, but also HDZ lobbyists, actually.
[00:10:52] Someone might say now that it's that. "politicians talk about
[00:10:56] Christians in Bosnia and Herzegovina being persecuted
[00:10:59] by Muslims. Yes,
[00:11:02] someone might say now that it's according to instructions from the Serbian Academy
[00:11:06] of Sciences and Arts, however, I would precisely say that
[00:11:09] he found himself on that line that will operate
[00:11:13] throughout the world and where efforts will be made
[00:11:16] for Christian countries to truly
[00:11:20] form that kind of
[00:11:24] front towards the Islamic world, towards some others, and
[00:11:27] what does that mean for Bosnia and Herzegovina, where Bosniaks
[00:11:31] actually make up half, meaning either it will
[00:11:34] fall apart or we find that mutual
[00:11:37] interest. Look, I mean, disintegration won't
[00:11:41] please anyone. Those who
[00:11:45] advocate for it, like Dodik or Čović, I
[00:11:49] understand that they have their private accounts in
[00:11:52] world banks, that they have... earned a lot from
[00:11:56] what they have done so far. However, if it
[00:12:00] continues towards disintegration, it truly won't please
[00:12:04] anyone. There will be no intervention for it,
[00:12:08] that, that, that would truly be a very
[00:12:11] unpleasant war, probably
[00:12:14] more unpleasant than the previous one, and I think that
[00:12:17] for all of us, there's nothing else left but to find that
[00:12:21] common interest, to constitute ourselves...
[00:12:25] "as a society that will be based on civic principles. Yes,
[00:12:28] but how, when politicians, look, specifically Dodik, he
[00:12:32] does not see sovereignty as the sovereignty of Bosnia and
[00:12:35] Herzegovina and advocacy for Bosnia and Herzegovina, but he sees it as
[00:12:38] the sovereignty of individuals. He sees, therefore,
[00:12:41] Republika Srpska and the self-determination
[00:12:45] of Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina. What are
[00:12:48] Bosniak politicians actually failing to do? They don't like
[00:12:52] to be called Bosniak, they prefer to be called pro-
[00:12:55] Bosnian-Herzegovinian.
[00:12:59] Neither Bosniak nor pro-Bosnian, they are simply
[00:13:03] faceless, ineffective, but what should they do now?
[00:13:06] No platform, while they are actually arguing, accusing each other
[00:13:10] of betrayal, and preparing themselves, preparing for
[00:13:14] elections. People, there are at least 10 more months
[00:13:17] until the elections. Well, listen, none of them actually stood on
[00:13:20] the platform of Bosnia. Did they even understand what is
[00:13:23] happening in the world now?
[00:13:28] They didn't understand at all. My question now is whether they even
[00:13:31] consider that something needs to be done for the benefit of
[00:13:34] the country, or are they just there to do
[00:13:37] some job and get paid and leave? I don't
[00:13:40] know, before these elections I said that this
[00:13:44] one group that eventually came to power, that they have
[00:13:48] slightly different visions. Some of them
[00:13:51] had visions around SDA, right, that...
[00:13:55] "they have their own territory, so they tried to
[00:13:58] win people over for this and that, but this trio
[00:14:01] doesn't even try to win people over, but simply
[00:14:05] lets everything fall apart. Now
[00:14:07] I can suspect that these people got money
[00:14:11] simply to act in that direction, to
[00:14:14] disappear, to go live in some other country.
[00:14:18] So, I can only say that we,
[00:14:22] as citizens, must..."
[00:14:25] raise our voice, there's no other way, because simply
[00:14:28] things are moving in a direction that won't be
[00:14:31] good for anyone. When you say citizens,
[00:14:34] I assume you mean all citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina,
[00:14:38] absolutely. But who will unite them, what idea
[00:14:41] that everyone stands up and says, we are fighting for our homeland Bosnia and
[00:14:45] Herzegovina, when for decades politicians have been
[00:14:48] pushing into their heads, you don't belong here, this is not your
[00:14:52] country, especially, look, Dodik and those like him. "The point
[00:14:55] is to turn things around. How do we have it? We have
[00:14:59] people within Republika Srpska who
[00:15:02] think differently among politicians.
[00:15:05] There are now more and more
[00:15:09] forces in the current opposition that think differently.
[00:15:12] But I think first of all, the point is that there is no
[00:15:16] resistance in Sarajevo to what Dodik and Čović
[00:15:19] are doing. And the opposition would enter government at the state
[00:15:23] level if Čović wanted to let Dodik's SNSD
[00:15:27] go, if that pair that is so firmly together
[00:15:30] would break up. And they have their reasons
[00:15:34] for doing it, however, within this Sarajevo
[00:15:37] scene, there is absolutely no
[00:15:41] idea of how to act differently, or rather,
[00:15:45] there is no desire, no will. And
[00:15:48] you see, what is worst in this
[00:15:52] country is the lack of political will or
[00:15:55] the lack of any will. We have been living
[00:15:58] in such a state for the last few years that
[00:16:01] simply citizens no longer have the will, they do not
[00:16:05] believe that anything is possible.
[00:16:08] "In the 90s, I will remind you, we
[00:16:12] lived in Sarajevo under siege. The war
[00:16:15] was waged, now however anyone found themselves on which
[00:16:19] side in the war, but people then believed it was worth fighting
[00:16:22] for right or wrong goals, some
[00:16:26] for these, some for those, but now no one would
[00:16:30] fight for anything, so I
[00:16:33] say, because there is simply no such will.
[00:16:36] That's what these politicians managed to
[00:16:39] do, that's what external forces
[00:16:42] managed to do by constantly giving
[00:16:46] foreigners, throughout all these decades, the main say here, while local officials dealt with
[00:16:49] tenders, employment,
[00:16:53] worse than anything, because look, now that kind of interventionism
[00:16:57] in the way we're used to won't happen, obviously. I remember
[00:17:00] '92 when it was voted, I told this as
[00:17:04] an anecdote, in '92 when
[00:17:07] independence was voted
[00:17:10] in the referendum. The next day in Sarajevo, a joke was
[00:17:14] told, a witty remark, right? So, they say, now that
[00:17:17] we're independent, now we can join America.
[00:17:20] I mean, the problem is in that way of thinking. The only
[00:17:24] way to survive is to fight for ourselves,
[00:17:28] to build our own state, to
[00:17:31] find our own interest in it, that's the only thing
[00:17:35] we can do. But again, some politicians try to
[00:17:37] sit down and negotiate, well, of course, but you see
[00:17:41] here, with Dodik's moves, actually
[00:17:44] sabotaging laws in the state
[00:17:47] parliament, his attempt to return to
[00:17:51] the negotiating table, well,
[00:17:53] now he absolutely wants to remain a factor.
[00:17:57] Obviously, it doesn't bother him too much that he's not
[00:17:59] officially a factor when
[00:18:03] he continues to act. His party
[00:18:07] has influence, he has influence over the party
[00:18:10] and simply, he has influence, but it is the ruling party, it absolutely
[00:18:14] rules in Republika Srpska. At the state level, nothing can be adopted
[00:18:17] without Dodik's SNSD. Therefore, he doesn't have to formally
[00:18:21] return, he acts quite
[00:18:24] effectively from this position for his own interests.
[00:18:28] However, all citizens in Republika Srpska get
[00:18:32] nothing good from his interests.
[00:18:35] It all comes down to that in the end. "that he will sell off
[00:18:39] resources to foreigners and again
[00:18:42] go and live somewhere else with all that capital
[00:18:45] he acquired, which he plundered.
[00:18:48] Therefore, I think, simply we as citizens
[00:18:52] must understand that this can no longer go on. Whether
[00:18:55] we will understand that or not, I truly cannot
[00:18:58] say now. Understanding, rather than God forbid, some preconditions for
[00:19:02] undesirable scenarios or whatever
[00:19:05] else, but this is very important to me. So Dodik does not
[00:19:09] stop talking about secession,
[00:19:12] he does not stop insulting Muslims, he does not stop
[00:19:16] blocking laws through his ministers and representatives. So
[00:19:20] what is that agreement with the Americans, except that he
[00:19:23] agrees to a court ruling that was certainly
[00:19:26] made and to withdraw laws that the Constitutional Court certainly
[00:19:29] overturned? So he doesn't insist on
[00:19:32] secession formally, although he continues
[00:19:36] to talk about it. So, for the Americans, that was obviously
[00:19:40] enough, and all this other talk obviously
[00:19:44] fits into their worldview.
[00:19:47] I mean, that's something I already talked about, that
[00:19:51] sovereignist worldview, that is,
[00:19:55] the idea that right-wingers should
[00:19:58] rule, that simply all
[00:20:01] these formations, including
[00:20:04] the European Union and even NATO, should disband,
[00:20:08] that states themselves should take care of
[00:20:12] themselves, preferably with one person in each state. And
[00:20:15] how can that be a danger, especially for Bosnia and Herzegovina as it
[00:20:19] is, with Serbia and Croatia as its closest
[00:20:23] neighbors who are massively
[00:20:26] arming themselves, while Bosnia and Herzegovina and its
[00:20:29] armed forces barely have enough for
[00:20:32] survival? Yes, that's
[00:20:36] not much better, actually less than what it was in '92,
[00:20:39] right? Maybe they were then
[00:20:43] slightly better armed in Serbia and Croatia compared to
[00:20:46] us who were totally disarmed.
[00:20:50] However, even now the armament we
[00:20:53] have is very
[00:20:55] modest.
[00:20:58] I can only say that simply that's also part of what
[00:21:02] we need to think about. Our interest
[00:21:05] is to have our own state, our
[00:21:08] interest is to be able to defend that state. That implies
[00:21:12] that we arm ourselves. I will remind you that this
[00:21:15] country was the center of the Yugoslav military
[00:21:18] industry, that 2/3, even
[00:21:21] 3/4 of the military industry in Yugoslavia was
[00:21:25] located in Bosnia and Herzegovina, that there is knowledge here, that
[00:21:29] we have many engineers who can
[00:21:33] act further. So political will is needed to
[00:21:37] move in that direction. I don't see that as
[00:21:40] some kind of vicious circle. How can there be political
[00:21:43] will when at the state level Dodik's minister cannot do anything for the armed
[00:21:47] forces? Well, there you go.
[00:21:50] Simply I say that we must
[00:21:53] launch a completely different narrative.
[00:21:57] This Dayton as it is, obviously cannot
[00:22:01] bring any prosperity,
[00:22:04] perhaps not even survival.
[00:22:07] Instead, we simply
[00:22:11] have to move towards citizens
[00:22:15] as such starting to organize, for that
[00:22:18] will from below.
[00:22:21] Do you see any new political option that could
[00:22:25] unite citizens from
[00:22:28] all of Bosnia and Herzegovina? I don't see it
[00:22:30] in sight. Currently, it's hard
[00:22:33] to discern anything similar,
[00:22:36] however, you know, even
[00:22:39] in 1990 it seemed
[00:22:41] that the former League of Communists,
[00:22:45] or rather the Social Democratic Party, would rule
[00:22:48] forever. And then everything changed in two
[00:22:51] months, suddenly these so-called
[00:22:55] national parties came and
[00:22:58] managed to seize power. Are the
[00:23:02] talks about the secession of Republika Srpska and, increasingly, the talk about
[00:23:06] a third entity for Croats in Bosnia and Herzegovina actually
[00:23:09] levers used to scare and blackmail
[00:23:12] Bosniak politicians so that they would actually agree to everything that
[00:23:15] is demanded? Of course, you just have
[00:23:18] people who will agree to everything in advance, that's
[00:23:22] the problem. I can't call them Bosniak, or this or that,
[00:23:26] they are no kind of politicians, they are
[00:23:29] here, simply here to do favors for
[00:23:32] Dodik and Čović, and they came, you're talking about the parties of
[00:23:35] the "trojka", yes, I'm talking about them. Do you think that the SDA,
[00:23:39] we are also talking about the SDA which did that for thirty
[00:23:42] years. The trojka has only increased
[00:23:45] the intensity. The SDA acted like
[00:23:48] that for 30 years. "a little under the handbrake,
[00:23:52] sometimes when they notice that people
[00:23:55] are against it, then they slow down a bit,
[00:23:58] but the SDA has been doing that for 30 years
[00:24:02] with parties like Dodik and Čović,
[00:24:05] continuously. And the trojka only received some
[00:24:08] kind of task, whether from outside or I don't know,
[00:24:11] I won't guess, but some kind of task to
[00:24:15] speed it up. But the trojka parties accuse the SDA
[00:24:19] that that party is actually ready
[00:24:22] for the division of Bosnia and Herzegovina, that it was always ready and that it would be
[00:24:26] a danger for Bosniaks if the SDA returned because they would
[00:24:30] agree to that. That is certainly true, but the trojka is doing the same thing and
[00:24:33] pushing towards division even though
[00:24:37] nominally it does not advocate for its own
[00:24:39] territory. So, the SDA nominally does not
[00:24:43] advocate for its own territory, but it acted
[00:24:47] in that direction. So, we have, we have...
[00:24:50] a real problem that we don't have political forces
[00:24:53] that would act differently, except for some
[00:24:56] smaller parties that have somewhat different
[00:25:00] affiliations, however, for now
[00:25:03] that is not enough power that could
[00:25:06] change this order. During Trump's first
[00:25:10] term, there was an intense story being spread through
[00:25:13] influential international media that
[00:25:16] the end of multi-ethnic states in the Balkans was coming.
[00:25:20] Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia. That somehow
[00:25:23] stopped when Biden came, right? Does that
[00:25:27] danger still hang over these
[00:25:29] countries I listed? Interestingly, Montenegro and Macedonia are NATO
[00:25:33] members. Montenegro hopes for EU membership, in three years at the
[00:25:36] latest. And according to that, it turns out that Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:25:40] is actually in the greatest danger.
[00:25:44] Well, it's in the greatest danger. Macedonia was in almost
[00:25:47] equal danger from Yugoslavia. The idea came out,
[00:25:50] first of all, British, that Bosnia and
[00:25:54] Herzegovina and Macedonia should be
[00:25:56] divided, Bosnia and Herzegovina between Serbia and
[00:26:00] Croatia with some small territory
[00:26:03] for Muslims, Bosniaks,
[00:26:06] later, and Macedonia was to be divided
[00:26:10] between Albania and Bulgaria, however, Albania and Bulgaria did not get too
[00:26:14] involved in that, as Serbia and Croatia did,
[00:26:18] and mainly Macedonia managed
[00:26:22] thanks to strengthening its own
[00:26:25] Macedonian identity, its own Macedonian
[00:26:28] nationalism. I think we in this country
[00:26:31] must... fight precisely for that
[00:26:34] unified Bosnian interest, for a unified Bosniak-Herzegovinian
[00:26:38] nationalism, what? yes,
[00:26:41] simply all citizens in this country should recognize that their
[00:26:44] interest is to have one state, in today's era
[00:26:48] the only form of state are national states, this is even stated in
[00:26:52] Trump's doctrine
[00:26:55] that it is the only form of state that
[00:26:59] will remain,
[00:27:02] so... "if we have three here, then either we will have
[00:27:05] three national states, or we will have one
[00:27:09] nation that will unite all of us, I
[00:27:12] have written about this a lot, the point is that
[00:27:16] all of us as citizens have
[00:27:19] according to the theory of all nations that have emerged,
[00:27:23] we simply have this kind
[00:27:26] of individual sovereignty which is then
[00:27:29] transferred to the whole, why should
[00:27:32] we be different from Switzerland, for example, or Belgium,
[00:27:36] people there also believe that they are of different origins, we are
[00:27:40] perhaps even all of the same origin, but
[00:27:42] well, centuries, yes, they are all
[00:27:46] equally Swiss, so
[00:27:48] you see, that's Swiss, in Bosnia and Herzegovina we are not all equally
[00:27:51] Bosnians,
[00:27:54] here it is forbidden to mention that we could
[00:27:57] be Bosnians,
[00:28:00] or you have some false... theories, right, that Bosniaks should
[00:28:04] be converted to Bosnians, and then something will be better, that's interesting, you recently
[00:28:08] withdrew from the academic initiative for
[00:28:11] promoting the name Bosniak,
[00:28:15] why did you do that, well, a better question is why I entered
[00:28:19] it at all, I entered were you deceived or what, well no, I entered
[00:28:23] because I believed that there were some people who advocate
[00:28:26] the same things as me, that is the civic
[00:28:30] form of the nation and indeed... there are such people,
[00:28:33] however, simply, well,
[00:28:36] the chairman of that initiative,
[00:28:39] Professor Kurčehajić, was pulling so much in one direction, contrary to
[00:28:43] all agreements, I was the one who, what direction, what didn't you
[00:28:46] like about it, well, simply there is no benefit from
[00:28:50] converting Bosniaks into Bosnians, we just
[00:28:54] thereby devalued the word
[00:28:57] Bosnian,
[00:28:59] so to speak, it is no longer adequate for... all
[00:29:02] others, well, and what were you advocating for? Well, I
[00:29:06] was advocating for what I already said, that
[00:29:09] there should be, simply, a national
[00:29:13] identity at one level, which consists of all citizens of this
[00:29:17] state, and ethnic identity is left to
[00:29:20] anyone who wants to differentiate themselves, there are people who want to differentiate themselves,
[00:29:24] who want to be Bosniaks or
[00:29:27] Muslims, who want to be Serbs,
[00:29:30] Orthodox, Croats.
[00:29:32] Catholics who have that need to differentiate themselves, there are many of us, I, for example,
[00:29:36] belong there, who do not need to categorize myself into one of those
[00:29:40] three groups and I never did, I
[00:29:43] belong to those unfortunates from mixed marriages, right,
[00:29:47] so I never could
[00:29:51] categorize myself anywhere,
[00:29:54] mainly, the point is that no matter how
[00:29:57] people want to declare themselves,
[00:30:01] at one, uh,
[00:30:04] private level,
[00:30:07] we simply all must
[00:30:11] find a common
[00:30:14] interest at
[00:30:17] a public and political level and understand that if we want
[00:30:21] to survive as a state, we must be a national
[00:30:24] state, all citizens of this state
[00:30:27] must be Bosnians, we can call ourselves differently,
[00:30:31] we can even call ourselves Mars. It doesn't matter, but it's appropriate
[00:30:34] because just briefly regarding that initiative, did you recognize
[00:30:37] some deception there, so you
[00:30:41] withdrew, well, I can tell you that it is largely possible that
[00:30:44] it is a deception to constantly insist
[00:30:49] changing the name Bosniak to
[00:30:53] Bosnian, simply that
[00:30:56] again leads to there being three parallel identities.