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20260813 200000 UTC
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[00:08:11] we are talking about general elections, constitutional
[00:08:15] blockades, burning problems of Mostar. Our guest is Slaven
[00:08:18] Bevanda, Vice President of the Croatian Republican Party, Secretary General
[00:08:22] of this party, and also a city councilor in the City Council of Mostar. Good day to you and welcome
[00:08:25] to Sarajevo Live. Good day and greetings to you and your
[00:08:28] viewers. Let's start with some of these state
[00:08:32] topics. General elections are coming up, HRS supports Zdenko
[00:08:35] Lučić. Do you think that the opposition
[00:08:39] has the capacity to replace the long-standing rule of HDZ
[00:08:42] of Bosnia and Herzegovina? Is it possible
[00:08:45] at all to replace HDZ of Bosnia and Herzegovina and
[00:08:49] do you think again that the problem when it comes to
[00:08:51] votes can be created by the candidacy of Slaven
[00:08:54] Kovačević? Well, look, we are in the process of political
[00:08:57] activity prohibition, you have to
[00:09:00] understand this situation, I have to remain somewhat reserved in this
[00:09:03] answer, for the reason that HRS is currently
[00:09:07] the second most penalized party by
[00:09:10] the Central Election Commission. This means that we are measured
[00:09:13] much more than others, some
[00:09:17] benign posts on portals that were caused
[00:09:21] by penalties from CIK. We are in the process of appeals both before the court
[00:09:24] and before the Constitutional Court. What I want to say in the context of general elections,
[00:09:28] it is still a, as some like to say, festival of democracy, but
[00:09:32] this time, this time, this time I hope that it will be the first truly
[00:09:36] honest elections, thanks to election technologies for which
[00:09:39] all of us from opposition parties fought hard
[00:09:42] and we expect that citizens will
[00:09:46] for the first time have a government that they
[00:09:49] elected in the elections and that their vote will represent their
[00:09:52] true will. So you expect that new election
[00:09:56] technologies will bear fruit? Well, based on the contacts we have with
[00:10:00] the Central Election Commission and the advertising
[00:10:03] campaign of CIK that starts today, we expect and hope that
[00:10:07] election technologies will be applied in the elections in
[00:10:10] October. We expect for the first time that
[00:10:14] we will know the election results on election night and not wait
[00:10:18] for months, that's what they said actually. Let's stay on
[00:10:22] these state topics. A lot of controversy
[00:10:25] arose from the renewed statements of the Croatian Foreign Minister Gordan Grlić
[00:10:29] Radman, he again spoke about the necessity of forming a third
[00:10:33] electoral unit in Bosnia and Herzegovina, saying that it
[00:10:36] would actually not lead to the division of Bosnia and Herzegovina, however,
[00:10:40] we immediately saw sharp reactions from
[00:10:44] Presidency member Denis Bećirović and candidate Slaven
[00:10:46] Kovačević, as well as the Minister of Foreign Affairs of BiH Elmedin
[00:10:50] Konaković. How do you view this, these statements, and the responses that
[00:10:54] followed? Well, look, these are some, well, I'll
[00:10:57] give my opinion, I personally think it's high time that such
[00:11:01] initiatives should stop coming, specifically from
[00:11:04] Zagreb, regarding the introduction of elections. Personally,
[00:11:08] I believe that such initiatives, similar initiatives, should come from
[00:11:11] Sarajevo, because I think that the issue of Croatian equality can
[00:11:15] only be resolved by internal consensus in the Federation, and I think
[00:11:19] that a turning point is necessary in Bosniak politics, in majority
[00:11:22] Bosniak politics, and potentially
[00:11:25] it would represent a historical step forward in
[00:11:29] solving accumulated problems, stabilization of the Federation
[00:11:33] as a larger entity, and that would ensure the path to the European
[00:11:36] Union for both the Federation and all of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
[00:11:39] Croatia would then be very helpful to us, because it would be
[00:11:43] our engine for entering the European Union for accelerated accession,
[00:11:47] negotiations. What we are not using with these relations with Croatia
[00:11:50] are cross-border cooperation and other issues, that is the question of all complex
[00:11:54] relations that exist, but I think a turning point in Bosniak
[00:11:58] politics on this issue is necessary. The necessity of amending
[00:12:01] the Election Law of Bosnia and Herzegovina is constantly being discussed,
[00:12:06] judgments that indicate this. However, representatives from both
[00:12:10] the Bosniak and Croatian people
[00:12:13] consistently discuss what should be done, but we lack
[00:12:16] concrete steps and actions. Why do you think they
[00:12:19] are absent? I think they are absent because the current policies,
[00:12:23] when I say current policies that have been in power for the last
[00:12:26] 20 years, this situation suits them, because
[00:12:29] in that way they feed on certain
[00:12:32] fears, so-called fears or real fears. So
[00:12:36] they manipulate their electorate and we are constantly in
[00:12:40] a standstill. I think we have been in a complete standstill since 2006.
[00:12:43] Let's now turn to these local
[00:12:46] topics. Mostar has no local communities, and
[00:12:49] the Constitutional Court of the Federation of BiH in its submitted opinion stated that
[00:12:53] local self-government units are obliged to form local
[00:12:56] communities as a form of local self-government.
[00:13:00] What specifically changes now with this decision in Mostar? Can we
[00:13:04] now expect that the city must now enable
[00:13:07] the actual functioning of local communities? Who is responsible
[00:13:11] for this not having been done so far? Well, everyone in the city is
[00:13:15] responsible, but of course the most responsible are those who form the political majority in the city
[00:13:19] council and who govern the city of Mostar. So, over the past six years, certain
[00:13:23] initiatives have been launched since we again have a city council. Certain
[00:13:27] initiatives have been launched to establish local
[00:13:29] self-government. So we have local communities in the city
[00:13:33] of Mostar, but in these local communities local self-government
[00:13:37] is not realized, which is what the law on the principles
[00:13:40] of local self-government in the Federation mandates. So
[00:13:43] we had some small initiatives, let's say, to
[00:13:46] form a new network of local communities, to organize elections
[00:13:50] for these local communities as in other units of local self-government,
[00:13:54] but, uh... For all of that, we need an amendment to the statute. We have not even implemented
[00:13:57] the decision of the Constitutional Court, or rather, only partially implemented the decision
[00:14:01] of the Constitutional Court regarding Mostar, and I think that
[00:14:04] in the coming period, in addition to that part of this opinion
[00:14:08] of the Constitutional Court which directed us to
[00:14:12] the necessity of implementing the statute, we have another opinion in
[00:14:16] in also, and I think that in the coming
[00:14:19] period, not before these elections, but after the elections, it will be
[00:14:23] time to seriously sit down
[00:14:25] about appropriate amendments to the statute in order to harmonize it with both the Constitution of the Federation and
[00:14:29] the Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina. So how many necessary amendments
[00:14:32] to the statute, what all needs to be changed in the statute? Well, look, we have what
[00:14:36] is mandated by the Constitutional Court to implement a part
[00:14:39] concerning the decision-making process in the central zone, that is,
[00:14:43] the use of financial resources decided by councilors
[00:14:46] who are elected from city areas. That
[00:14:49] issue remained unresolved in the decision
[00:14:53] of the Constitutional Court, and only the issue of holding
[00:14:56] elections in the city of Mostar was resolved. So we have a situation where
[00:15:00] we must ensure changes, changes
[00:15:03] regarding local communities, their establishment,
[00:15:06] functioning, that is, ensuring local
[00:15:08] self-government for all citizens in the city. The second part, which concerns
[00:15:12] the new opinion of the Constitutional Court, means that it is an opinion, not a decision,
[00:15:16] and it did not overturn certain provisions of Mostar's statute, that is
[00:15:19] for ensuring the candidacy of others. That's what
[00:15:23] I wanted you to say next. of others in the city, in the city of Mostar, because
[00:15:27] the current statute of the city of Mostar, which we must say was imposed
[00:15:31] by the High Representative at the time, Paddy Ashdown, did not
[00:15:34] foresee the possibility for the club of others to nominate a deputy president
[00:15:37] and president of the city council. So, do you expect these changes to occur,
[00:15:41] and that this item will also be included? Well, look, we
[00:15:44] will, we will incorporate those changes, if we are responsible, if we have such
[00:15:48] an opinion from the Constitutional Court, uh, and such issues are resolved at
[00:15:51] certain levels of the Federation, that is, in elections, in the election
[00:15:55] of, for example, the leadership of the House of Peoples and
[00:15:58] the House of Representatives of the Parliament of the Federation. So
[00:16:02] there are models that we can use to solve it, I see no reason why we wouldn't approach
[00:16:05] that solution. So we, from HRS, have complete political will to resolve
[00:16:09] all these issues. You said,
[00:16:12] then, it is resolved when it comes to elections in the city of Mostar itself,
[00:16:16] but does the current statute of the city pose an obstacle
[00:16:20] to the normal functioning of Mostar? How would the statute
[00:16:23] that you and HRS would propose look like? Well, look,
[00:16:27] there is that statute, as I said before, it was imposed by
[00:16:31] the administration, that is, the High Representative.
[00:16:34] He abolished the previous six municipalities and the city structure
[00:16:37] that existed previously and replaced it with a single city administration.
[00:16:41] We then received from the same statute a unitary
[00:16:45] organization of the city, we have five departments in the city.
[00:16:48] Opinions are emerging that we should reorganize the city
[00:16:52] administration. We believe that we should,
[00:16:54] uh, regulate a number of issues
[00:16:58] regarding the method of appointment,
[00:17:01] hiring people, that is, fulfilling constitutional responsibilities, that is,
[00:17:05] everything that should be
[00:17:09] is something that necessarily requires at all times amendments to
[00:17:12] legislation at higher levels, and we have
[00:17:15] an obligation to harmonize with them, but we first need to adopt this
[00:17:18] statute that was imposed by the High Representative, meaning
[00:17:22] then to change it, meaning it is still, let's say,
[00:17:25] on a temporary basis for us. What about the eventual return
[00:17:29] of city municipalities, are you in favor of that? Well, look, there is
[00:17:33] a proposal, meaning we always have some emissaries, in this case it was
[00:17:36] Mr. Efendić, who came to Sarajevo, concerned about, allegedly, the status
[00:17:40] of Bosniaks in the city of Mostar, and he proposed the return, the return
[00:17:44] of city municipalities, that is, returning to the situation before 2004.
[00:17:47] So we have situations in cities in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
[00:17:51] such as Sarajevo, specifically Sarajevo, which has a regulated issue, it has city
[00:17:54] municipalities, it has a city, it has a city as an institution with very
[00:17:58] limited powers, uh, in principle, if we are all in the majority for
[00:18:02] that, although it is a good model, I would be able to discuss it to see what the
[00:18:06] competencies would be. From HRS, we would discuss how it was, but it would be
[00:18:09] necessary to apply that model then, if it is good for Mostar, I see no reason
[00:18:13] why we wouldn't apply it to other municipalities in the Federation, for example,
[00:18:17] Travnik or something similar. One of
[00:18:20] the actually bigger problems are public enterprises
[00:18:23] in the city of Mostar. Recently, the most current issues
[00:18:26] are the Uborak landfill and the public utility company. You
[00:18:30] spoke of serious suspicions regarding the operation and management
[00:18:33] of the public utility company. Are there specific evidences, and do you actually expect
[00:18:37] an investigation to occur regarding the operation and management of the public
[00:18:41] utility company Komunalno in Mostar? Well, look, in the city of Mostar,
[00:18:45] in the city of Mostar, we have foreseen in that statute
[00:18:49] an internal oversight service, which until half a year ago
[00:18:53] was unfilled for six or seven years. One of the competencies
[00:18:57] of that internal oversight service was to supervise the work of those public
[00:19:00] enterprises. What we are
[00:19:04] witnessing is that these public enterprises...
[00:19:07] uh, these public enterprises in the city of Mostar, specifically, we had a fire at
[00:19:11] the Uborak landfill, where, according to initial estimates, the
[00:19:15] damages were 20 million marks. We are talking about material damages. The damages
[00:19:18] to the health of citizens caused by that incident are
[00:19:22] unfortunately immeasurable; they will be seen in the
[00:19:25] future. We currently have an unresolved situation with that
[00:19:28] company. In the public utility company, we have big
[00:19:31] problems, big problems with the way that company is operated and managed. We are witnessing that
[00:19:34] numerous criminal complaints have been filed these past few days due to
[00:19:38] abuses in this company. At the last
[00:19:41] council session, we witnessed that certain council members accused
[00:19:44] each other of using funds and
[00:19:48] funds, or rather, equipment, or equipment, or
[00:19:51] machines of that company, to pave the driveways,
[00:19:54] courtyards of certain council members or political
[00:19:57] officials. This is something that
[00:20:01] would, this is something that in a normal country after such a
[00:20:04] council session where a council member is concerned.
[00:20:15] that something was paved with city funds or a benefit was made,
[00:20:18] but we still have no information about investigations.
[00:20:22] It's not that long ago that criminal charges were filed. What we are waiting
[00:20:25] for is an investigation into the fire at the
[00:20:28] Uborak landfill, because there were, there have been well-founded
[00:20:32] suspicions from the beginning that the fire was arson.
[00:20:36] And without without
[00:20:39] a full investigation, it's difficult to draw any conclusions. If it was
[00:20:43] arson and if it was, listen, it was an attack on the citizens
[00:20:47] of Mostar, that's the least of it. The least of it
[00:20:50] is the value of destroyed property, which is the value and costs that are now
[00:20:54] arising in the city of Mostar in terms of organizing
[00:20:57] the disposal of that waste. Yes, we will talk about that too, but let's just
[00:21:01] briefly touch upon the management and operation of the
[00:21:04] public utility company itself. You said
[00:21:08] that there are two public utilities under the same roof. Are public enterprises
[00:21:11] in Mostar divided along national and political
[00:21:15] lines? Who is doing this, why, and how long would it actually
[00:21:18] take to start the recovery of the system, how long would that
[00:21:22] take, primarily to uncover all possible
[00:21:25] malversations, frauds, divisions, and only then
[00:21:28] to actually recover everything and establish it as it should be? Well, look,
[00:21:32] it is obvious that these our enterprises did not function in accordance
[00:21:36] with the law, that is, the law on public enterprises and the law on commercial
[00:21:40] companies, which they are obliged to
[00:21:43] apply. We are therefore witnesses that the managements of those enterprises that were
[00:21:47] appointed had a sharp division of competencies
[00:21:50] regarding, to be completely honest, the implementation of activities
[00:21:54] of those enterprises in certain urban areas, both with a Croatian
[00:21:57] and with a Bosniak majority. So we don't need to hide that, it's clear to everyone.
[00:22:01] We have a situation where in certain enterprises,
[00:22:05] I call them work units, work units one and two,
[00:22:08] were formed, which were essentially created from former separate
[00:22:11] enterprises during the unification of enterprises, so that citizens and those enterprises
[00:22:15] still haven't fully functioned. They haven't
[00:22:19] fully functioned, been in that
[00:22:22] common, common form. So
[00:22:25] because of that, we have chaos in that management. We have been
[00:22:28] witnesses for several years of citizens' complaints, public announcements
[00:22:32] that the assets, specifically the machines, excavators, backhoes
[00:22:36] of those public enterprises, not only outside working hours,
[00:22:39] are found in private, are found in the area, are found in
[00:22:43] the area of other municipalities, people have recorded them, published them, so huge
[00:22:46] abuses exist. Huge suspicion of
[00:22:50] abuses, we will see what will be the
[00:22:53] subject of these investigations. Will the prosecution, I see no
[00:22:56] reason for delay there, these are not cases in which
[00:23:00] huge investigative actions need to be carried out.
[00:23:03] And what is necessary in all those
[00:23:07] enterprises is to conduct an independent audit of operations, if
[00:23:11] possible. We advocate for an international audit, we know that
[00:23:14] it costs a lot, but I think a cut-off needs to be made.
[00:23:18] How do you then view
[00:23:20] these latest dismissals that we witnessed in the
[00:23:23] utility company? Are these dismissals of workers
[00:23:26] a consequence of economic and organizational problems that
[00:23:30] certainly exist, or precisely political and national relations
[00:23:33] within the company? We now see workers
[00:23:37] talking about the pressures that they endured. How do you view
[00:23:41] this whole situation now? Well, look, we were, we had a city council
[00:23:44] session, where no one wanted to publish that alleged petition,
[00:23:48] let's say, of workers who refuse to work
[00:23:50] from allegedly work unit two, but they stop working in
[00:23:54] the area of work unit one or conversely, to be clear, in
[00:23:58] areas where mostly Croats live, or in areas where mostly Bosniaks
[00:24:01] live, we have workers who refused
[00:24:05] to work, allegedly, I repeat, in that part, to perform
[00:24:08] their tasks,
[00:24:11] which they are obliged to do throughout the entire city, and they
[00:24:15] have the right to choose where they will work, which is impossible. This
[00:24:19] shows... the multi-layered nature of the work in managing that
[00:24:22] company. So, these companies were not united in a
[00:24:26] proper way. When uniting
[00:24:30] uh, we warned that perhaps it wasn't
[00:24:32] the best way. The formation of a holding company was proposed, so that it would be clear
[00:24:36] in one holding company there would be several companies: a landfill,
[00:24:40] sanitation, waste collection, and execution of works, to be
[00:24:44] controlled through a joint holding company. There were several proposals, unfortunately it seems
[00:24:48] the worst one was chosen, and today it... does not function. It is obvious that in this entire
[00:24:52] process there was manipulation of workers, mhm,
[00:24:55] absolute manipulation. Some people stated that they didn't know what they
[00:24:58] had signed within the framework of that petition. You didn't even
[00:25:02] see the petition on the..., we saw one letter, but
[00:25:06] I personally did not see a signed petition, it was not presented.
[00:25:09] Similarly, we did not see any decision on the termination
[00:25:13] of the employment contract, for what reason one of the workers
[00:25:15] was given that termination. Well, specifically, I am a lawyer and it is
[00:25:19] impossible to assess whether that decision, let's say, at least for formal
[00:25:23] legal reasons, is lawful or not. But it is very
[00:25:26] evident now that the supervisory board, as
[00:25:29] a second-instance body, is resolving the appeals of those
[00:25:32] workers, i.e., requests for reconsideration of those decisions, and
[00:25:36] I, as I heard from the media, that some decisions were even
[00:25:39] adopted. But now, what can the city
[00:25:42] council do, what can you order the public
[00:25:46] company to do? Can it, can we perhaps
[00:25:49] expect, well, an audit,
[00:25:52] some re-establishment of a different kind, a different
[00:25:56] way of working in the utility company? Well, what
[00:26:00] we are witnessing, it means that these public companies, which we have, not only in the city
[00:26:03] of Mostar, but at higher levels or in other cities, are in huge problems,
[00:26:07] mhm, we are witnesses that perhaps some companies that entered into
[00:26:11] public-private partnerships with private companies in some municipalities have far fewer
[00:26:15] problems, perhaps it costs a little more somewhere,
[00:26:19] perhaps it looks a little different, but it is obvious that we need new relationships in
[00:26:23] terms of the
[00:26:25] regulation of these issues, but what is worrying is that all these
[00:26:29] companies operate, they have poor business
[00:26:33] results. So not just in the city of Mostar, look,
[00:26:37] look at the federal level, the list of tax debtors, and you will
[00:26:41] see at the federal administration, the federal tax administration or
[00:26:44] the indirect taxation administration, which are the utility companies, the biggest
[00:26:48] debtors. This means that contributions are not paid, that
[00:26:52] VAT is not paid. At the same time, these companies, unlike private companies,
[00:26:56] are not blocked by the tax
[00:26:58] administration. So chaos
[00:27:02] "will have to be resolved. Uh, we are witnesses that in some other
[00:27:06] municipalities there were bankruptcies of utility companies, the establishment
[00:27:09] of new ones. I don't know what the future of the city of Mostar is. We have a difficult
[00:27:13] situation at the landfill that burned down. We currently
[00:27:17] have workers who worked on disposal, storage,
[00:27:19] sorting of that waste that came there, I think there are about
[00:27:23] 55 workers, uh,
[00:27:26] they are in a very difficult situation, all this concern
[00:27:30] for these dismissals made me in a way..." prompted me to wonder how no one
[00:27:33] cares about these 55 people who did these jobs, whose future
[00:27:37] is uncertain. We hope that these people will integrate into other
[00:27:40] other city utility
[00:27:43] companies, that they will remain at that landfill for the maintenance
[00:27:46] and disposal,
[00:27:49] and the implementation of the adaptation plan for that landfill. That is all
[00:27:53] that awaits us in the coming period, where we have a very
[00:27:56] difficult situation, and there is a lot of
[00:28:00] communal issues and that problem with waste
[00:28:02] disposal. Can the citizens of Mostar and
[00:28:06] this entire region actually be told when Uborak will cease to be
[00:28:09] a city landfill and where Mostar will dispose of
[00:28:13] waste after that? Has an alternative been found, is
[00:28:16] there talk about it? There were many ideas years
[00:28:19] ago, but is there a final decision?
[00:28:23] There is no decision, meaning that we do not even have a new location for a
[00:28:27] regional landfill in the spatial plan of our canton. So what
[00:28:30] the city of Mostar landfill Uborak must implement in the
[00:28:34] area of the Herzegovina-Neretva Canton, it means what
[00:28:37] the city of Mostar, the Uborak landfill, must implement in the
[00:28:41] area of the Uborak landfill, is the implementation of the adaptation plan adopted by the Federal
[00:28:44] Ministry for Environmental Protection. This implies that for the next five years
[00:28:48] that landfill will be remediated
[00:28:51] according to regulations, that all
[00:28:55] hazardous materials found there will be separated, that it will be greened,
[00:28:58] and that simply in the future it will not pose a danger to
[00:29:04] waste has been deposited at that landfill for 60 years, that before the war, anyone who lived in Mostar before the war
[00:29:08] knows that that landfill
[00:29:11] burned very badly before the war, but it is a chaos, simply
[00:29:15] a chaos that we must, must, must resolve. Will we be able to
[00:29:19] resolve it without European partners? I don't know, and
[00:29:22] there is constant talk about that problem, but somehow no
[00:29:25] solution is found. How do you look at that? Well,
[00:29:29] look, Mostar is not alone in that problem, there are many other
[00:29:32] cities, there are some small municipalities or smaller municipalities, local
[00:29:36] self-government units that have solved it by having illegal landfills, and no one
[00:29:40] mentions them. The city of Mostar had a sanitary landfill that was newly
[00:29:43] opened after the European Union, I think it was perhaps not even well
[00:29:47] managed. That is, that is another problem, meaning that
[00:29:50] if all legal regulations had been applied, that landfill would not
[00:29:53] look like this today, and this horror that happened with this
[00:29:57] fire is simply something
[00:30:00] impossible that of course no one expected. Was this a breakdown or was it
[00:30:04] caused, as I said, the investigation will determine whether it was
[00:30:08] caused intentionally? Do you have any information on what stage the
[00:30:11] investigation is in? I really don't, because look, the prosecution will not provide any
[00:30:15] information, it retains the right for protection, not only
[00:30:19] in this but also in all other cases. But here, we say that
[00:30:22] appropriate expert assessments need to be carried out, probably a large
[00:30:25] number of people, workers, landfill workers, a large number
[00:30:28] of firefighters who told us, let's say
[00:30:32] internally, when we went to thank those people for all
[00:30:36] they did, because they were exposed to a terrible
[00:30:39] danger when they were extinguishing that
[00:30:42] landfill. They, because the landfill did not only have one fire, it had
[00:30:46] new fires on the second and third day, they expressed
[00:30:49] suspicion, based on their professional experience, that it was
[00:30:52] arson. Now when we talk about public
[00:30:56] enterprises of the city of Mostar, are they today...