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20260814 050000 UTC
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[00:00:00] were his, well, he was on a secret plane. He was not on the
[00:00:04] same plane that those reporters
[00:00:06] solution is found. How do you and some White House staffers were flying on. Joining me
[00:00:09] tonight is one of the reporters who broke this story, Washington Post National Security
[00:00:13] reporter Dan Lamoth. And Dan, I mean, this is a
[00:00:16] remarkable scoop and very thorough reporting
[00:00:20] here. Can you just kind of walk us through what you've learned
[00:00:23] here?
[00:00:25] Yeah, I mean, I think the most significant piece here is that for
[00:00:29] weeks now, uh, the American public has been talking about the
[00:00:33] two Air Force One jets, uh, the newer
[00:00:36] one from Cutter and the older one from the last couple
[00:00:40] is simply something impossible decades of operations. And in reality, the President was on neither
[00:00:42] plane. Uh, this came to the Post in part
[00:00:45] abuses in this company, and at the because, uh, individuals thought that there was a
[00:00:49] hole in public understanding here that needed to be
[00:00:51] clarified. I mean, it also just
[00:00:55] in terms of how they came up with this,
[00:00:58] I mean, you know, a lot, a big question is going to be how
[00:01:01] unprecedented this is, the idea that they would take the President, not only put
[00:01:05] him on an alternate aircraft, but use a catering truck at the
[00:01:10] airport, uh, to do so.
[00:01:14] Yeah, you mean, you can see some creativity and ingenuity in how they were able to pull this
[00:01:18] off. And, and you, I don't think there's any dispute here.
[00:01:21] I mean, Iran is a serious threat to the United States. Iran is a
[00:01:25] threat to senior U.S. officials that pre-dates this
[00:01:28] administration. Uh, there is cause for concern. Uh,
[00:01:32] it's unclear at the moment what exactly triggered them to
[00:01:35] take these uh, extreme measures. Um, but, but
[00:01:39] either way, we've gone about a month now since it occurred,
[00:01:43] and until today, uh, there was no public understanding of
[00:01:46] it. Well, and you report that the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
[00:01:50] also boarded that C-32A plane
[00:01:53] separately using external stairs, which means
[00:01:56] people could see him boarding it.
[00:01:59] and will that be included? Uh, and you write that this is part of an attempt to make the the flight appear
[00:02:02] typical. That's a plane that typically other VIPs, cabinet
[00:02:04] members, um, would fly on. Do we know who
[00:02:08] else, if anyone, was on that secret plane with the
[00:02:11] President?
[00:02:14] I can't speak at the moment to the with any specificity to to who
[00:02:18] else was aboard that plane. But, but
[00:02:20] Elmedin Konaković. How do you view yes, uh, Secretary Hegseth, uh, I'm told,
[00:02:22] uh, went up the external stairs, uh,
[00:02:25] deliberately so, uh, as a part of a larger plan to make it look like
[00:02:29] he was the senior official on that plane. Uh, the C-32s
[00:02:33] that they use that day, uh, are commonly used. The Vice President uses
[00:02:37] them. The President uses on occasion
[00:02:39] domestically. I have flown on C-32s in the
[00:02:43] past with general officers. It's not uncommon, uh, to
[00:02:47] see VIPs on that plane. But, but
[00:02:50] obviously, when you have even the usage of an Air Force One
[00:02:53] call sign, a plane that the President is not aboard in
[00:02:57] that moment, that's remarkable.
[00:03:00] Well, and that's actually a really good point, because typically the
[00:03:04] understanding is that any plane, any aircraft the President is on, is Air
[00:03:08] Force One, or any helicopter that he's on, that's technically Marine
[00:03:11] One. But, but you said that the one that he was actually flying on had a
[00:03:15] non-descript call sign, while the other plane that everyone thinks
[00:03:19] he's on is still considered in the still the call sign of Air Force
[00:03:22] One.
[00:03:25] Yes, that's right. And then as we kind of backtrack some of the publicly
[00:03:29] available tracker data on this, you have
[00:03:32] the newer jet from
[00:03:34] rulings that point to Cutter that that landed with a relatively non-descript
[00:03:38] call sign a couple hours in advance in Britain.
[00:03:41] The C-32 simply did not show up in flight tracker
[00:03:45] data at all, at least in the publicly available
[00:03:48] information we had. And and the Air Force One jet
[00:03:51] landed with the Air Force One call sign despite the
[00:03:55] President not being aboard. That, that there's a serious shell game
[00:03:59] of sorts that... there, uh, you to keep the President
[00:04:02] safe. And did were there White House staffers who were on the decoy
[00:04:06] Air Force One that also thought that the President was still on that
[00:04:10] plane?
[00:04:13] My understanding is there was some White House staff that did not know. Uh, this
[00:04:17] was kept close hold in a small group. Uh, and
[00:04:21] obviously, the White House Press Core, which reported not
[00:04:24] only in that day but in the subsequent weeks as well, uh, that the President had
[00:04:28] traveled whole on the quote unquote
[00:04:52] We are talking about general elections, constitutional
[00:04:55] citizens of Mostar in the future. We forgot that blockades, burning problems of Mostar. Our guest is Slaven Bevanda, Vice President of the Croatian
[00:04:59] Republican Party, General Secretary of this party, but also a city
[00:05:03] councilor in the City Council of the City of Mostar. Good day and welcome
[00:05:06] to Sarajevo Day Live. Good day to you and your
[00:05:10] viewers. Let's start with some of these... state
[00:05:13] topics. General elections are coming up. HRS supports Zdenko
[00:05:16] Lučić. Do you think that the opposition
[00:05:20] has the capacity to replace the long-term rule
[00:05:23] of HDZ Bosnia and Herzegovina? Is it even possible
[00:05:26] to replace HDZ Bosnia and Herzegovina, and
[00:05:30] do you think that the problem when it comes to
[00:05:33] votes can be caused by the candidacy of Slaven Kovačević? Well,
[00:05:36] look, we are in the process of being banned from political
[00:05:39] activity, you must understand this situation. "I must
[00:05:43] remain somewhat reserved in this answer because
[00:05:46] HRS is currently the second most
[00:05:49] punished party by the Central Election
[00:05:53] Commission, meaning that much more is measured for us than
[00:05:56] for others, some benign posts on portals
[00:05:59] that were, that were, caused penalties at
[00:06:03] the CEC. We are in the process of appeals before both the court and the representative
[00:06:06] court. What I want to say in the context of general elections, it is still
[00:06:10] a, as some like to say, "festival of democracy," but this
[00:06:13] time, this time, this time I hope it will be the first truly
[00:06:17] honest elections, thanks to the electoral technologies for which all of us
[00:06:21] from the opposition parties fought hard. We expect that
[00:06:25] citizens will have for the first time
[00:06:28] a government as they elected in the elections, that their
[00:06:32] vote will represent their true will, so
[00:06:35] you expect that new electoral technologies will bear fruit? Well,
[00:06:39] here, the contacts we have with the Central Election Commission
[00:06:42] and here, a certain advertising campaign by CIK that starts
[00:06:45] today, so we expect and hope that electoral technologies will be
[00:06:49] applied in the elections in October, and
[00:06:53] we expect for the first time that we will know the election results
[00:06:57] on election night and not wait for months. That is, so to speak,
[00:07:01] actually, let's stay on these state
[00:07:04] topics. Much controversy was caused by the repeated statements
[00:07:07] of the Croatian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Gordan Grlić Radman. He spoke again
[00:07:11] about the necessity of forming a third electoral
[00:07:14] unit in Bosnia and Herzegovina, saying that it would not
[00:07:17] lead to the division of Bosnia and Herzegovina. However,
[00:07:21] we immediately saw sharp reactions
[00:07:23] from both the member of the Presidency, Denis Bećirović, and candidate
[00:07:27] Slaven Kovačević, as well as the Minister of Foreign Affairs of BiH,
[00:07:32] that, those statements, and the responses that follow? Well,
[00:07:36] look, it's about sitting down. So, I will state my opinion. I
[00:07:40] also personally think that it is high time for such initiatives
[00:07:43] to stop coming, specifically from Zagreb regarding the method of introducing
[00:07:47] elections. Personally, I believe that such initiatives,
[00:07:50] similar initiatives, should come from Sarajevo, because I think that the
[00:07:54] issue of Croatian equality can only be resolved through internal consensus in
[00:07:58] the Federation, and I think that a turnaround
[00:08:01] in Bosniak politics, the majority Bosniak politics, is necessary, and
[00:08:05] eventually, eventually, that would represent a historic
[00:08:08] step forward in resolving accumulated problems.
[00:08:12] There is no stabilization of the Federation as a larger entity, and that would
[00:08:15] secure the path to the European Union for both the Federation and
[00:08:19] all of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croatia would then be
[00:08:22] of great help to us, because it would be our engine for entering the European
[00:08:26] Union for accelerated access, negotiations. What we are currently not
[00:08:30] utilizing in our relations with Croatia is cross-border cooperation and other issues.
[00:08:33] That is the issue of all complex relations that exist, but I think that
[00:08:37] a turnaround in Bosniak politics on this issue is necessary.
[00:08:40] There is constant talk about the necessity of amending the electoral law of Bosnia and
[00:08:44] Herzegovina. We also have
[00:08:47] this, but consistently, even representatives from the Bosniak
[00:08:50] people and from the Croatian people talk about how it should be,
[00:08:54] but we don't have concrete steps and
[00:08:57] actions. Why do you think they don't exist? Well, I think, I think they
[00:09:00] don't exist because the existing policies, when I say existing policies that
[00:09:04] have been in power for, let's say, the last 20 years,
[00:09:08] this situation suits them, because they feed on individual
[00:09:12] fear in that way. They use so-called fears or true
[00:09:15] fears, meaning they manipulate their electorate.
[00:09:19] We have been at a standstill the whole time, I think we have been at a complete standstill since
[00:09:23] 2006. Let's now turn to these somewhat
[00:09:27] local topics. Mostar does not have local communities, and
[00:09:30] the Constitutional Court of the Federation of BiH in its delivered opinion stated that
[00:09:34] local self-government units are obliged to form local
[00:09:37] communities as a form of local self-government.
[00:09:41] What exactly does this decision change in Mostar? Can we
[00:09:45] now expect that, does the city now have to enable
[00:09:48] the actual functioning of local communities? Who is even
[00:09:52] responsible for this not being done so far? Well, everyone in the city is
[00:09:55] responsible, but of course, those who form the political majority
[00:09:59] in the city council and who govern the city of Mostar are the most responsible. So, in the last six
[00:10:03] years, certain initiatives have been launched since we have a city council again.
[00:10:06] Certain initiatives have been launched with the aim of establishing
[00:10:10] local self-government. So, we... "We have local communities in
[00:10:14] the city of Mostar, but in these local communities, local
[00:10:18] self-government is exercised, which is what the Law on
[00:10:21] Principles of Local Self-Government in the Federation dictates, meaning..."
[00:10:25] "We had some small initiatives, so to speak, to form
[00:10:28] a new network of local communities, to organize elections for these local
[00:10:32] communities as in other units of local self-government, but uh
[00:10:36] for all of that, we need an amendment to the statute. We have not even implemented
[00:10:39] the decision of the Constitutional Court, or rather, it has only been partially implemented, the decision of the Constitutional
[00:10:43] Court regarding Mostar, and I think in
[00:10:46] the coming period, in addition to this part of this opinion
[00:10:49] of the Constitutional Court which directed us to the
[00:10:53] necessity of implementing the statute." We have another opinion
[00:10:56] in also and I think that in some future
[00:11:00] period, not before these elections, but after the elections, the
[00:11:04] time will come to seriously sit down about appropriate changes
[00:11:07] to the current moment in order to harmonize it with both the Constitution of the Federation and the Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina. So how many
[00:11:11] necessary changes to the statute, what all
[00:11:15] needs to be changed in the statute? Well, look, we have what is obligated by the
[00:11:19] Constitutional Court to implement a part regarding the decision-making method in the area
[00:11:22] of the central zone, i.e., the use of financial
[00:11:25] resources decided by councilors who are elected from
[00:11:29] urban areas. That issue remained
[00:11:32] unresolved in the decision of the Constitutional Court, and only the
[00:11:36] issue of holding elections in the city of Mostar was resolved. So,
[00:11:39] we have a situation where we must ensure
[00:11:42] amendments, amendments regarding local communities,
[00:11:46] their establishment, functioning, i.e., ensuring local
[00:11:50] self-government for all citizens in the city. The second part which concerns
[00:11:53] the new opinion of the Constitutional Court. So that is an opinion, not a decision,
[00:11:57] it did not revoke certain provisions of the Mostar statute, that is
[00:12:00] for ensuring the candidacy of others, I wished
[00:12:04] for the next others, others in the city of Mostar,
[00:12:07] because the current statute of the city of Mostar, which we must say was
[00:12:11] imposed by the High Representative at the time, Paddy
[00:12:14] Ashdown, does not provide for the possibility for the club of others to
[00:12:17] nominate the vice-president and president of the city council. And do you
[00:12:21] expect those changes to happen,
[00:12:24] Well, look, we will, we will incorporate those changes if
[00:12:28] we are responsible, if we have such an opinion of the Constitutional Court.
[00:12:31] Uh, such issues are resolved at certain levels of the
[00:12:35] Federation, i.e., in elections, for example, in the election
[00:12:38] of the leadership of the House of Peoples
[00:12:41] and the House of Representatives of the Federation Parliament. So,
[00:12:44] there are models that we can use to solve it. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't proceed with that
[00:12:48] solution. So, we from HRS have full political will to resolve all these
[00:12:52] issues. Um, you said,
[00:12:55] therefore, it has been resolved when it comes to elections in the city of Mostar itself.
[00:12:59] However, does the current statute of the city pose an obstacle to
[00:13:03] the normal functioning of Mostar? What would a statute look like
[00:13:06] that you and HRS would propose? Well, look,
[00:13:10] there is that statute, as we already said before, it was imposed by the
[00:13:14] administration, i.e., the High Representative. It
[00:13:17] abolished the previous six municipalities and replaced the city structure that
[00:13:21] previously existed with a unified city administration. We then...
[00:13:25] by that statute, we got a unitary organization of the city.
[00:13:29] We have five departments in the city. The opinions that
[00:13:32] appear are that we should make a reorganization of the city
[00:13:35] administration. We believe that we should, uh,
[00:13:39] arrange a number of issues regarding the method
[00:13:42] of appointments, hiring people. So,
[00:13:46] fulfilling constitutional competencies. So, everything that should be
[00:13:50] is something that necessarily requires changes to legislation at a higher level
[00:13:53] at all times. They have, we have an obligation
[00:13:56] to comply with them, but we first need to adopt this statute
[00:14:00] that was imposed by the High Representative. Meaning,
[00:14:04] only then change it. So, it is still, let's say, on a temporary
[00:14:07] basis. And what about the eventual return of city
[00:14:11] municipalities? Are you for that? Well, look, there is a proposal. So, we
[00:14:15] always have some emissaries. Here, specifically in this case, it was Mr. Efendić who came to
[00:14:19] Sarajevo, allegedly concerned about the status of Bosniaks in Mostar
[00:14:22] and proposed the return, the return
[00:14:25] of city municipalities, i.e., a return to the situation before 2004.
[00:14:28] So, we have situations in cities in Bosnia and Herzegovina,
[00:14:32] like Sarajevo, specifically Sarajevo, which has a regulated issue. It has city
[00:14:35] municipalities, it has a city, it has a city as an institution with very
[00:14:39] small powers. Uh, in principle, if we are all for
[00:14:43] it, and if it's a good model, I would be willing to discuss them to see what the
[00:14:47] competencies would be. We from HRS would discuss what it would be, but it would be
[00:14:50] necessary then to take that model, if it's good for Mostar, I don't see why
[00:14:54] we wouldn't apply it to other municipalities in the Federation,
[00:14:58] for example, Travnik or something similar. One,
[00:15:01] one of the biggest problems, in fact, are public companies
[00:15:05] in the city of Mostar. Recently,
[00:15:07] the most current issues are the Uborak landfill and
[00:15:11] communal services. You spoke about
[00:15:13] serious doubts regarding the work and management
[00:15:16] of communal services. Are there certain evidences? Do you actually
[00:15:20] expect an investigation into the work and management of the public
[00:15:24] communal service company in Mostar? Well, look, in the city of Mostar, in the city
[00:15:28] of Mostar, we have a service for internal supervision provided by that statute. It was
[00:15:32] unfilled for half a year ago, for six or
[00:15:36] seven years. And one of the powers of that internal supervision service was to
[00:15:40] supervise the work of those public enterprises.
[00:15:43] What we are witnessing, we are witnessing that these public
[00:15:47] enterprises, that these public enterprises in the city of Mostar,
[00:15:51] specifically, we had a fire at the landfill, at the Uborak landfill,
[00:15:54] where, according to initial estimates, the damages are 20 million
[00:15:57] marks. We are talking about material damages. The damages to
[00:16:00] the health of citizens caused by that accident are unfortunately
[00:16:04] immeasurable. They will be reflected in the future. We have...
[00:16:07] The current situation with that company is unresolved. In
[00:16:11] the communal company, we have big problems, big problems with
[00:16:14] the way it operates and manages that company. We are witnessing that a number
[00:16:17] of criminal charges have been filed in recent days due to
[00:16:23] last council session, we witnessed that individual
[00:16:26] councilors accused each other of using funds
[00:16:29] and funds, i.e., funds
[00:16:33] or or or or machinery of that company to pave
[00:16:36] courtyards for individual councilors or political
[00:16:40] officials, yards. So, that is, that is a matter that
[00:16:43] would, that is a matter that in a normal country after such a council session,
[00:16:47] where councilors, certain councilors present such information, the prosecutor's office
[00:16:51] would call them for an interview, and request
[00:16:55] information on who had something paved with city funds
[00:16:58] or, in other words, who benefited. There are
[00:17:01] no, we still have no information currently about investigations.
[00:17:05] It hasn't been that long since criminal charges were filed. What we are waiting
[00:17:08] for, we are waiting for an investigation into the fire at the
[00:17:11] Uborak landfill, because there were, there were reasonable suspicions
[00:17:15] from the beginning that the fire was arson,
[00:17:17] and without, and without conducting a full
[00:17:21] investigation, it is difficult to draw any conclusions. If it was arson
[00:17:24] and if, look, that was an attack on the citizens of Mostar.
[00:17:28] That is the least of the questions, the least of the questions regarding the value
[00:17:31] of destroyed property, which is the value and costs that arise today
[00:17:35] in the city of Mostar in terms of organizing and handling that
[00:17:39] waste. Yes, we will talk about that too, but let's just briefly
[00:17:43] discuss the management and operation of the communal
[00:17:46] company itself. You said that those are two
[00:17:49] communal companies under the same roof. Are public companies
[00:17:53] in Mostar actually divided along national
[00:17:56] political lines? Who does that, why, how long would it actually
[00:18:00] take now to start the recovery of the system, how long would that
[00:18:03] take, primarily to uncover all possible
[00:18:06] malversations, frauds, divisions, and only then to
[00:18:09] actually recover everything and establish it as it should be? Well,
[00:18:13] look, it's clear that these companies of ours have not functioned
[00:18:16] in accordance with the law, that is, the Law on Public Enterprises and the Law on
[00:18:20] Economic Societies, which oblige them to
[00:18:24] apply them. So, we are witnessing that the managements of these companies that were
[00:18:28] appointed, that they had a sharp division of responsibilities
[00:18:31] regarding, let's be immediately most honest, regarding
[00:18:35] the conduct of the activities of those companies in certain urban
[00:18:38] areas, both with Croatian and Bosniak majorities. So, we shouldn't
[00:18:42] hide that, it's clear to everyone. We have a situation where in
[00:18:45] some companies, formed, I call them
[00:18:49] working units, working units one and two, which were essentially
[00:18:52] formed from former separate companies when the companies were unified. So,
[00:18:56] citizens and those companies still haven't fully
[00:19:00] functioned, fully started functioning in that
[00:19:03] common, common form. So,
[00:19:06] because of that, we have... a chaos in that management. We have been
[00:19:09] witnessing for many years, and in citizen
[00:19:13] complaints, public announcements, that funds, specifically
[00:19:16] machinery, excavators, backhoes of these public companies, not only
[00:19:20] outside working hours, are found in
[00:19:23] private, are found in the area, are found in the area of other municipalities. People filmed them,
[00:19:27] published them. So, huge abuses. There is
[00:19:30] huge suspicion of abuses. So,
[00:19:34] we will see what will be the subject of those investigations. Will the
[00:19:37] prosecutor's office, I see no reason for procrastination. These are not
[00:19:41] some cases in which huge investigative
[00:19:44] actions need to be conducted. And what is necessary in all these
[00:19:48] companies is to conduct an independent audit of operations, if
[00:19:52] possible. We also advocate for an international audit. We know that
[00:19:55] it costs a lot, but I think a cross-section needs to be made.
[00:19:59] How do you then view these recent dismissals
[00:20:02] that we witnessed in communal services? Are these
[00:20:06] dismissals of workers a consequence of economic and
[00:20:09] organizational problems that certainly exist, or precisely
[00:20:12] political and national relations within the company? We now see
[00:20:16] workers talking about the pressures they
[00:20:20] endured. How do you view this entire situation? Look, we
[00:20:24] had a city council meeting where no one wanted to
[00:20:27] publish that alleged petition, so to speak, of workers who refuse
[00:20:30] to work from allegedly working unit two, but stop
[00:20:34] working in the area of working unit one or...
[00:20:44] So, we have workers who refused to work, allegedly, again, I'm talking about that
[00:20:48] part of performing their
[00:20:50] duties, who are obliged to work in
[00:20:54] the entire city area. And they
[00:20:56] have the right to choose where they will work. That is impossible. That
[00:21:00] shows a multi-layered approach to managing that
[00:21:03] company. So, those companies were not unified
[00:21:07] in a proper way. We, when unifying,
[00:21:10] uh, warned that it might not be the best
[00:21:14] way. The formation of a holding company was proposed, so that it is precisely known
[00:21:17] that in one holding company, there would be... more companies: landfill,
[00:21:21] cleanliness, waste collection, execution of works, to be
[00:21:25] controlled through a joint holding. There were more proposals. Unfortunately, it seems
[00:21:28] that the worst was chosen, and it is not functioning today. It is evident
[00:21:32] that in this whole process there was manipulation of workers. Mhm.
[00:21:36] Absolute manipulation. Some people stated that they didn't know what they
[00:21:39] signed in that petition. You didn't even
[00:21:43] see the petition, we only saw a letter, but
[00:21:47] I personally didn't see a signed petition. It's not...
[00:21:50] Similarly, we haven't seen any decision on the termination of an employment
[00:21:54] contract, for what reason someone's employment was terminated.
[00:21:57] So, I am a lawyer, so I cannot
[00:22:00] assess whether that decision, let's say, at least for formal
[00:22:04] legal reasons, is lawful or not. But it is very evident
[00:22:07] now that the supervisory board, as
[00:22:10] the second-instance body, is resolving the complaints of these
[00:22:13] workers, i.e., requests for reconsideration of those decisions, and
[00:22:17] I only heard from the media that decisions were even
[00:22:20] adopted. Yes, but what can the City
[00:22:23] Council do now? What can you order the public
[00:22:27] company to do? Can we perhaps expect
[00:22:30] uh an audit,
[00:22:33] some new establishment of a different type, a different
[00:22:37] way of working in the communal company? Well, what
[00:22:41] we are witnessing is that these public companies that we have, not only in the city
[00:22:44] of Mostar, but at higher levels, in other cities, are in huge
[00:22:48] problems. Mhm. We are...
[00:22:50] Perhaps some companies that have entered into public-private partnerships with
[00:22:53] private firms in some municipalities have far fewer
[00:22:56] problems. Maybe it costs a bit more,
[00:23:00] maybe it looks a bit different, but it's clear that we need new relationships in
[00:23:04] terms of regulating
[00:23:06] these issues. But what is worrying is that all these
[00:23:10] companies operate, they have poor business
[00:23:14] results. So, not only in the city of Mostar, look,
[00:23:18] look at the list of tax debtors at the federal
[00:23:22] tax administration, the federal tax administration or the indirect taxation administration.
[00:23:25] You will see which communal companies are the biggest debtors. This means that contributions
[00:23:29] are not paid, that VAT is not paid.
[00:23:32] at the same time, these companies, unlike
[00:23:36] private companies, are not blocked by the tax administration, so
[00:23:39] that this chaos,
[00:23:43] chaos will have to be resolved.
[00:23:45] Uh, we are witnesses that in some other municipalities there were bankruptcies of utility
[00:23:49] companies. The establishment of new ones, I don't know what the
[00:23:52] future of the city of Mostar holds. We have a difficult situation at the landfill
[00:23:56] that burned down. We, at this moment, the workers who were working on
[00:23:59] disposal, storage, sorting of that waste
[00:24:02] that was coming there, I think there are about 55 workers,
[00:24:06] uh, they have a very difficult situation. All this
[00:24:10] concern for these layoffs somehow
[00:24:13] prompted me to ask myself why no one cares about those 55 people who were doing these
[00:24:17] jobs whose future is uncertain. We hope... that these
[00:24:20] people will fit into other other
[00:24:23] city utility companies, that they will remain at that
[00:24:26] landfill guarding disposal
[00:24:30] uh, the implementation of the adaptation plan at that landfill, that's all that
[00:24:34] awaits us in the next period where we have, where
[00:24:37] we have a difficult, very difficult situation, that there is actually a lot of work when
[00:24:40] it comes to utilities and that problem with waste
[00:24:44] disposal. Can the citizens of Mostar and, well,
[00:24:47] the entire region actually say when will the city landfill
[00:24:50] cease to exist and where will Mostar dispose of
[00:24:54] waste after that? Has an alternative been found? Is
[00:24:57] there talk about it? There were many ideas years
[00:25:00] ago, but is there a final decision?
[00:25:04] There is no decision. So, we don't even have a new location for
[00:25:08] a regional landfill planned in the spatial plan of our
[00:25:11] Herzegovina-Neretva Canton. So, what the
[00:25:15] city of Mostar's Uborak landfill must implement,
[00:25:18] it must be implemented in the area of the Uborak landfill.
[00:25:22] That is the implementation of the adaptation plan adopted by the Federal
[00:25:25] Ministry of Environment. This means that in the next five years
[00:25:29] that landfill will be remediated
[00:25:33] according to regulations, that
[00:25:36] all hazardous materials located there will be separated, that it will be
[00:25:39] greened, and that it will simply not pose a threat to the
[00:25:45] waste has been deposited at that landfill for 60 years, that before the
[00:25:49] war... whoever lived in Mostar before the war knows that that landfill
[00:25:52] burned very badly before the war. But that's a chaos,
[00:25:56] simply something we have to, we have to, we have to solve.
[00:25:59] Will we be able to solve it without European partners? I don't know, and
[00:26:03] the problem is constantly being discussed, but somehow no
[00:26:09] view that? Well, look, Mostar is not alone in that
[00:26:12] problem. There are many other cities, there are some small municipalities or
[00:26:16] smaller municipalities, local self-government units that solved this by having
[00:26:19] illegal landfills and no one mentions them. The city of Mostar had
[00:26:22] a sanitary landfill that was newly opened after the European
[00:26:26] Union. I think it might not have been well managed either. Mm-hm.
[00:26:30] That's, that's another problem. So that landfill is... "If
[00:26:33] all legal regulations had been applied, it wouldn't look like this today. And
[00:26:36] this horror that happened with this
[00:26:38] fire
[00:26:42] that, of course, no one expected. Was this an accident or was it caused
[00:26:46] as I said, the investigation will determine if it was caused
[00:26:49] deliberately? Do you have any information on what phase the
[00:26:52] investigation is in? I really don't, because, look, the prosecutor's office won't give any
[00:26:55] information, it reserves the right for protection,
[00:26:59] not only in this, but in all other cases. But, as I said,
[00:27:03] appropriate expertises need to be carried out here, probably a large number of people, workers
[00:27:06] from the landfill, need to be questioned, a large number of
[00:27:09] firefighters who told us, let's say
[00:27:13] internally, when we went to thank those people for all
[00:27:17] they did, because they were exposed to a terrible
[00:27:20] danger when they were extinguishing that
[00:27:23] landfill. They are, because the landfill didn't have just one fire, it had
[00:27:27] new fires on the second and third day. They expressed
[00:27:30] suspicion, due to their professional experience, that it was
[00:27:33] arson. Now that we're talking about public
[00:27:37] enterprises in the city of Mostar, are they
[00:27:40] today professional city companies or still political
[00:27:43] prey of parties? How do you... I personally think
[00:27:47] that we do not have professional companies in public enterprises, not only in
[00:27:51] Mostar, but throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina.
[00:27:55] So these companies are simply under
[00:27:59] the supervision of political parties that appoint their members.
[00:28:02] of supervisory boards and management and they manage these enterprises
[00:28:05] and we are witnesses that their results, as we said,
[00:28:09] who are the biggest debtors of tax contributions, tell
[00:28:13] us that either we don't know how to manage that
[00:28:16] sector, that we don't know how to manage that sector, or that
[00:28:19] there is a high degree of corruption and crime where the funds
[00:28:23] of citizens, look, these funds that are used by these utility companies are paid
[00:28:27] by all of us through waste collection or by paying appropriate utility
[00:28:31] fees adopted by local self-government units. So, we are
[00:28:34] witnesses to problems in highways, problems in
[00:28:38] telecommunications, now big problems in the economy of Bosnia and
[00:28:41] Herzegovina, in mines, meaning all
[00:28:45] public enterprises are simply, or a very
[00:28:48] small number of them operate
[00:28:51] responsibly. Is it even possible to solve that problem? We're talking
[00:28:54] now from local communities, then through the level
[00:28:58] of cantons, then entity
[00:29:01] levels and... Bosnia and Herzegovina, all
[00:29:05] public enterprises are actually in a similar situation, a similar
[00:29:08] state. Is it even possible then to come and
[00:29:11] solve these problems? Well, it is possible to solve these problems, but these problems
[00:29:15] will not be solved until Bosnia and Herzegovina joins the European
[00:29:18] Union. I'm afraid they won't be solved until
[00:29:21] we have not only our own prosecutor's offices but European prosecutor's offices. We are
[00:29:25] witnesses now in Croatia that anyone who spends funds from
[00:29:29] European funds falls under the jurisdiction of the European prosecutor's office.
[00:29:32] So you see, for example, specifically in landfills in
[00:29:36] Croatia and in certain
[00:29:39] collectors, I'm talking about those utility infrastructures, it is very
[00:29:43] carefully monitored by European investigators how
[00:29:46] those funds are spent. So you
[00:29:49] have a control chain, let's say a control
[00:29:52] control chain from European prosecutors,
[00:29:56] so that politics cannot exert pressure on the local
[00:29:59] prosecutor's office. You see, we are witnesses that... the European
[00:30:03] Prosecutor's Office, due to EBRD funds,
[00:30:05] suspended the financing of highways in the Federation. So we see
[00:30:09] where we are now stopped. We are stopped, that work on
[00:30:13] highways will stop, that we are again delayed, and that we will again travel from Mostar to
[00:30:16] Sarajevo for hours, and you will go to the sea longer and longer until
[00:30:20] we build that highway. So you think the solution is actually
[00:30:23] the European Union? Well, honestly, I expect
[00:30:27] because it's time for transparency, responsible work
[00:30:29] of investigative prosecutorial and judicial
[00:30:33] teams, quick, efficient work, until we join or at
[00:30:37] least get closer to the European Union, because it will have very strict
[00:30:40] criteria regarding the chapter on
[00:30:43] justice, mm-hm, so that's the hardest chapter that Croatia
[00:30:46] would implement judicial reform. So
[00:30:50] without that there is none, I don't see
[00:30:53] the ability uh, among these
[00:30:56] politicians, appointed people in all positions in institu