N1BOS — broadcast
20260911 163000 UTC
307 transcript segments
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[00:01:24] institution could make a for next uh AI
[00:01:27] industry insiders are warning the rise in the
[00:01:31] uh intelligence of AI models is
[00:01:34] risk that is growing too much. As you can see, I've been joined by Jonathan Richard
[00:01:38] Schwortz. He's the visiting professor at
[00:01:40] primarily worked with the US labs, and in Imperial, head of AI research at Thompson Righters Foundation. Very good
[00:01:43] morning to you. Thanks so much for joining us. Good morning. Um, I guess to set
[00:01:47] this up, and in the last sort of 24 hours or so, um, number
[00:01:51] of threads on X have gone viral, one in particular
[00:01:54] from a former AI safety worker at both ap
[00:01:58] and anthropic that that raised the... question said that the chance
[00:02:01] AI one day could kill us all was greater than 10%,
[00:02:05] right? Is that assessment you agree with? Um, I think on sort of
[00:02:09] extinction, I'm perhaps a little bit more sort of cautious about my
[00:02:12] predictions, but I think what is almost certain now is that we have a drastic reshift of power in
[00:02:16] society. I think that sort of frontier labs have an immense
[00:02:19] opportunity to sort of reshift economic power, social power,
[00:02:23] political power, scientific power, even infrastructure power, and I think it's something that we
[00:02:27] should very seriously think about a society. Um, I guess. One of the
[00:02:30] other central things that's come out in the last 24 hours was the the
[00:02:33] suggestion that bosses at all of the big AI
[00:02:37] companies, none in particular
[00:02:40] um are more aware of the risks than they make public. Is that
[00:02:43] something that that you think could be true? Um, I think of
[00:02:47] course all insiders within those
[00:02:49] 60 applications, and labs probably have have sort of about a three to six months horizon of roughly
[00:02:53] where development is headed. I think that some of the sort of recent
[00:02:56] developments we have on model development, especially a sort
[00:02:59] say that this is normal? This is normal in in of new called um sort of a cursive self-improvement where models
[00:03:03] kind of just become better and better over time, um, is something
[00:03:06] that uh seems to have started to take off and seems to be something that there's a lot of
[00:03:10] energy in and uh so the bosses, but
[00:03:13] also really all researchers with these labs will have a unique insight that isn't necessarily
[00:03:16] public yet. Is there a concern throughout the ranks
[00:03:20] of employees that this is going too fast too
[00:03:23] quickly and and and people have felt they can't speak up? I think that's
[00:03:26] fair to say, and it's not just the employees. I mean, I have been in this field for over 10
[00:03:30] years, and this year has been one of the most of astonishing amounts of progress, both
[00:03:34] in terms of the model's capabilities and how fast they're being released. I think the
[00:03:39] boils over, then that's how we got to that field is becoming more diverse, which is important because it's not sufficient for us to just look
[00:03:41] at open air and the tropic, there's a huge amount of open-weight models that are being
[00:03:45] released that are just almost as capable and really anybody could
[00:03:48] download them, you and me, and increasingly they can be run on consumer
[00:03:52] hardware, and so there is a sense in which uh you
[00:03:55] know the the sort of safety and security issues have been more serious than ever before.
[00:03:59] Um, clear. Really all of these companies like in
[00:04:01] any new technology want to want to
[00:04:05] win, want to get there first and innovate fastest. If
[00:04:08] we only cared about profit, which clearly we
[00:04:11] don't, but if we only cared about profit, is it fair to say
[00:04:15] in this technology more than any others, that it's going to be winner takes all or
[00:04:19] winner takes most? Is there that sort of legitimate
[00:04:22] incentive for them to put the the foot to the
[00:04:25] floor to try and be first, because if they don't then
[00:04:29] somebody else will... all of their lunch? I mean, that's certainly how they're operating, right? I think
[00:04:33] there's perhaps a space for more kind of pluralistic world in the AI space, but the the frontier labs
[00:04:37] are operating in this kind of speed, right? And it's really kind of prisoner's dilemma's
[00:04:40] kind of situation where the sort of uh self-interest of these
[00:04:44] firms is to move as fast as they possibly can, and unless there's some
[00:04:47] sort of external arbiter, we're in a situation where they just keep raising,
[00:04:51] right? And the sort of voluntary agreements that people have tried to put in place haven't really been
[00:04:55] able to prevent that or slow things down, because I guess the follow-on question
[00:04:59] for that, which if there is that prize for someone at the end of it
[00:05:02] is when you then get onto the nationalistic debate,
[00:05:06] which is if you don't allow the, let's
[00:05:09] narrow it down to two countries for argument's sake, the... US
[00:05:12] companies, one of them at least to be the winner, then the alternative
[00:05:16] could be a Chinese company being the winner. Is that a fair way of looking at it? Um, I
[00:05:20] would say that a lot of people, including a lot of my own academic work, is
[00:05:24] trying to kind of get away from that dynamic, right? There's a huge amount of energy and
[00:05:27] effort about the sort of idea of sovereign AI, nation, states
[00:05:31] institutions trying to develop their own models and sort of get away from this dynamic and being
[00:05:35] fully reliant on others. In this country and other middle powers there's a lot of interesting
[00:05:39] work being done, so I don't think we're in a situation where it's inevitable that...
[00:05:42] sort of either Chinese or or US labs are dominating and everybody else is left behind. I
[00:05:46] think there are things that can be done, but the opportunity window is shrinking. I
[00:05:51] regulator imposed rules or restrictions
[00:05:55] that slow down the US's ability to innovate, would
[00:05:59] that prisoner's dilemma risk still apply that China might not do the
[00:06:02] same? Well, I mean, that's the conversation people are having, right? Frankly,
[00:06:06] uh, sort of, if regulation is is only applied in a certain jurisdiction or a certain
[00:06:10] country, uh, it's it's sort of. opportunity for others to kind
[00:06:13] of catch up or even exceed the ability. So really, I think what's needed is a sort
[00:06:17] of multilateral international sort of way of
[00:06:20] of of of coordinating this. Um, we do have an AI safety
[00:06:24] institute here in the UK. I mean many people say it's one of the world leaders,
[00:06:28] but I guess are we now at a point where it's wishful
[00:06:31] thinking to to expect that that UK-based
[00:06:36] difference in this? Yeah, I mean AC, the AI security institute
[00:06:40] has been incredibly influential and has really seen as one of the world class institutes in this
[00:06:44] space. But I do think that we're in a position where it's no longer clear if we can fully
[00:06:47] rely on this voluntary excess, right? I think it's also fair to say that AC has
[00:06:53] a world where more and more models are being provided by more and more institutions,
[00:06:56] it's not necessarily clear whether one single institution can can completely scale,
[00:07:00] so I do think we need something that goes beyond a single kind of country's institution, and
[00:07:04] something like in a more multilateral international basis would certainly be very
[00:07:07] valuable. Bring us back to where we started and and the scale of the
[00:07:11] risk that you you think that as
[00:07:14] a society face from AI and if
[00:07:18] it's not 10% chance of total wipe out, is it
[00:07:21] underpriced in the way that we talk about it in terms of
[00:07:25] significant risks to society? Yeah, I mean I personally
[00:07:28] think that we are um, I think this 10% figure is something that's very difficult
[00:07:32] to sort of assess, right? It's more like a gut feeling than a proper sort of populistic
[00:07:35] measure, but I do imagine that the kind of systematic risks like the
[00:07:39] power I describe, the sort of economic impacts and so on, those are almost
[00:07:42] certain to be happening. I mean, there's already a sort of situation where arguably AI
[00:07:46] developers are are making sort of large judgments on what human values
[00:07:49] are, uh, sort of decisions that usually happen throughout the political process, right? And
[00:07:53] this is already happening and it's kind of troubling that people like me or my
[00:07:56] colleagues get to decide what model should be saying on sort of some of the most contested issues in the
[00:08:00] world, right? And sometimes I believe that the extinction debate is important,
[00:08:04] but there's lots of other kind of debates here that are kind of falling a little bit by the wayside.
[00:08:08] Um, what if people
[00:08:12] a... process of technological
[00:08:14] innovation
[00:08:16] and law makers and regulators will catch
[00:08:20] up and there'll always be a sort of balance that that evolves over
[00:08:24] time. Yeah, I would I would say that's probably mistaken. I mean, if we look at past
[00:08:27] technologies, comparison, people like to make the industrial revolution,
[00:08:31] that sort of ran over 80 years in in a limited number of sectors and
[00:08:34] already there the consequences were quite dire for many people until
[00:08:38] some of the benefits were to be seen. Think of the internet, sort of more recent
[00:08:42] example. A lot of the predictions of how things would turn out ended up being true. I
[00:08:45] think the level of uncertainty and the scale and speed of things is just different this time.
[00:08:49] Um, Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Jonathan Richard
[00:08:53] Schwartz from Imperial.
[00:14:38] Welcome to another edition of Scene,
[00:14:41] in the next few minutes we will talk about Balet Fest,
[00:14:44] then about the BH Drama Festival Zenica, but also about the
[00:14:48] Pitchwise Festival, which brings female art and the fight for gender
[00:14:52] equality through numerous programs. I am Adrijana Gavrić,
[00:14:55] once again, welcome to
[00:14:57] Scene.
[00:15:01] From September 18th to 26th,
[00:15:04] the 17th Ballet Fest Sarajevo will be held. The festival has
[00:15:08] grown over the years into a significant meeting place for
[00:15:11] domestic and international artists. This year's
[00:15:15] program brings performances, exhibitions, workshops and
[00:15:18] discussions dedicated to ballet and dance art. The audience
[00:15:22] can expect various dance expressions from contemporary
[00:15:25] dance to ballet classics. Special
[00:15:28] attention will be paid to artists who have pushed the boundaries of dance
[00:15:32] art with their work. We have three four
[00:15:35] segments in our festival, which are, of course, inevitable performances,
[00:15:39] exhibitions, discussions, workshops.
[00:15:43] The performances this year are truly for
[00:15:45] lovers of those who like contemporary expression. The leaders
[00:15:49] in contemporary ballet expression are,
[00:15:53] of course, one company with which contact has been
[00:15:56] traditionally established and continues, Bitef Dance
[00:16:00] Company with a very important and
[00:16:03] interesting play called "Unclean
[00:16:06] Blood".
[00:16:09] The 25th BH Drama Festival Zenica will be held from
[00:16:13] September 14th to 20th at the Bosnian National
[00:16:16] Theater Zenica. There are seven plays in the competition
[00:16:20] program. The festival opens with the National Theater Mostar
[00:16:23] with the play "Mayor or This is a play about Mujaga
[00:16:27] Komadina". And there are also Sartr with plays for
[00:16:30] "Life Entire" and "Basement". Chamber Theater 55 "You
[00:16:34] Love My Soul". National Theater Sarajevo "On a Letter".
[00:16:38] and from Serbia the regime of healing and Gorocvet
[00:16:41] all seven plays which the selector
[00:16:45] uh selected in April
[00:16:48] will appear and will be performed
[00:16:51] uh within the 25th Festival of Bosnian-Herzegovinian Drama. One
[00:16:55] play for organizational reasons, the play of
[00:16:58] Chamber Theater 55, "You Love My Soul"
[00:17:01] due to time constraints, inability to find
[00:17:05] an adequate date and time for the festival to be in
[00:17:09] continuity, will be performed in the Chamber Theater, that is, in
[00:17:13] its home theater on Saturday,
[00:17:15] September 19th, for for for the closing
[00:17:19] of the festival.
[00:17:23] In Sarajevo, the 21st Pitchwise
[00:17:26] Festival of Women's Art and Activism organized by the Cure
[00:17:30] Foundation has begun. The festival brings artistic programs, workshops,
[00:17:33] performances and discussions dedicated to empowering
[00:17:36] women, solidarity, freedom and the fight for gender
[00:17:40] equality. A feminist is born,
[00:17:44] a feminist is made, is the slogan of the 21st Pitchwise Festival
[00:17:47] of Women's Art and Activism, the eponymous exhibition is one of three
[00:17:51] installations that this year bring different artistic perspectives on
[00:17:55] women and society. With that slogan, the focus is actually
[00:17:58] placed on the fact that feminism is not something that is given, but that it
[00:18:02] develops over time, both in all of us, and it also develops
[00:18:06] and actually responds to... the challenges that society places before us.
[00:18:10] This year's festival is truly organized in
[00:18:12] a time of wars, human rights
[00:18:15] violations, shrinking space for the actions of activists and
[00:18:19] human rights defenders, shrinking space for the actions of civil
[00:18:22] society. The exhibition is very layered, we had more than
[00:18:27] um, we opened the space for 23 different
[00:18:30] art projects and different perspectives.
[00:18:34] The exhibition opens some of the typical questions. that you can
[00:18:38] expect at such a festival, the question of mm women's
[00:18:41] position in society, mm, the question of aging and
[00:18:44] menopause, mm, the attitude towards
[00:18:47] illness in our society. The exhibition "Sometimes it Boils Over", presented by
[00:18:51] the Furaj Mir project team
[00:18:55] from Prnjavor, talks about war and human suffering. The focus is on people, regardless of their
[00:18:58] origin, religion or nation. We constantly talked about those war
[00:19:02] events, about building peace and how emotions
[00:19:06] and everything else swelled. One of my colleagues, Adrijana, who is actually
[00:19:09] the main member of our team, said, oh, something always boils over,
[00:19:13] like, oh, it's boiling over again, but sometimes it
[00:19:16] topic, and we just focused on the ordinary
[00:19:20] civilian, more precisely the refugee, a person
[00:19:23] without any prefix, whether they are of this
[00:19:26] religion, that race, whatever national group they belong to,
[00:19:30] we just focused on the person in war and the individual who suffers
[00:19:33] and who is looking for something better and looking for peace. The third ex... Exhibition
[00:19:37] is dedicated to human rights defenders, women who with their
[00:19:41] long-term work contribute to the fight for equality
[00:19:44] and a dignified life. Among them is the director and co-founder
[00:19:47] of the Cure Foundation, Jadranka Miličević. The House of Human
[00:19:50] Rights Oslo, which covers which in a way coordinates
[00:19:54] between the Houses of Human Rights in Europe, chose from
[00:19:58] each House of Human Rights one of the women who is
[00:20:01] recognized for her long-term work, for her
[00:20:04] certain - I won't say
[00:20:07] "really" - but for the results she achieves in her daily work,
[00:20:11] and it's normal that it was an honor for me when they
[00:20:15] chose and nominated me to be among and together with
[00:20:19] all these other comrades. From women's personal
[00:20:21] experiences to stories of war and refuge, to portraits
[00:20:25] of human rights defenders, this year's Pitchwise brings
[00:20:28] different perspectives, but also a common need to speak and
[00:20:31] question and act. Amila Mrkonja, N1,
[00:20:35] Sarajevo.
[00:20:39] And that would be all we prepared for you today. A new gathering with
[00:20:42] new information is scheduled for Monday. Be well,
[00:20:46] goodbye!
[00:26:03] I am Adrijana Gavrić, you are watching N1.
[00:26:38] From tomorrow, a significantly more pleasant temperature in almost all
[00:26:42] areas, around 25 degrees. A cloudy system
[00:26:45] from the north has enveloped our country, bringing precipitation and
[00:26:49] a drop in temperature. From tomorrow, we expect the temperature to be
[00:26:52] within the average for the last decade of the calendar
[00:26:56] summer. On Saturday, the weather will be variable cloudy in
[00:26:59] central, southern and eastern regions with rain or local
[00:27:02] thunderstorms. Precipitation will stop by the end of the day,
[00:27:06] clearing is expected. A light to moderate northern
[00:27:10] wind will blow, minimum temperature in Bosnia up to 15 degrees, in
[00:27:14] the south up to 21, maximum from 21
[00:27:17] to 30 degrees. From Sunday, temperatures will be within
[00:27:21] the average for this time of year, from 23 to 30
[00:27:25] degrees, periods of sunny and cloudy
[00:27:28] weather will decrease, and only occasionally will there be conditions for transient showers.
[00:27:48] to point out facts and reveal what is behind political and social
[00:27:52] events is our daily task,
[00:27:55] always current, but without sensational lies. We choose
[00:27:58] topics important for the lives of citizens of all of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
[00:28:02] Only verified and timely news and stories have
[00:28:06] a place in the N1 Diary. I am Marijana
[00:28:09] Kršo, you are watching
[00:28:10] N1.
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[00:30:25] Good evening, welcome to
[00:30:26] the diary,
[00:30:31] test voting in Bosnia and Herzegovina held with difficulties,
[00:30:34] voters waited for hours for ballots, the use of new
[00:30:37] technologies went without problems.
[00:30:41] We noticed where the problem is, we are very happy and satisfied that we were able
[00:30:45] to notice what is mm a small
[00:30:48] oversight, so to speak. It is about
[00:30:52] the delay in printing the ballots themselves and in distributing
[00:30:55] those ballots to polling stations.