N1BOS — broadcast
20260917 073000 UTC
410 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] There is a connection between
[00:00:02] Trump's interests and this
[00:00:04] project.
[00:00:12] But it is clear to me from
[00:00:17] I'm sorry, this is perhaps too long an answer to the report that, based on previous policy,
[00:00:21] this is a major
[00:00:22] deviation.
[00:00:26] The USA has been for some time.
[00:00:30] supported this project and
[00:00:33] that it was initially
[00:00:37] supposed to be part of the Adriatic
[00:00:40] gas pipeline, but it wasn't,
[00:00:43] so
[00:00:47] to move away from all of that to a company
[00:00:50] that was founded immediately
[00:00:53] after the adoption of the amendments to the
[00:00:57] gas pipeline law.
[00:01:01] that this project be given to a company
[00:01:04] that has absolutely no experience in that
[00:01:07] area, then we have truly moved far away from what
[00:01:11] was initially agreed and
[00:01:24] we heard during the debate in the previous
[00:01:27] days is something that is... also very serious and
[00:01:31] to many it was unimaginable to say in the American
[00:01:35] Congress until recently, that is the possibility of Bosnia and
[00:01:38] Herzegovina disintegrating, which, as it was said, is not
[00:01:42] out of the realm of possibility, especially
[00:01:45] due to the attitudes of the authorities in the entity of Republika Srpska.
[00:01:49] In fact, there was much talk about the end of the OHR
[00:01:51] as a specific goal of some
[00:01:55] here. The Trump administration emphasized that the conditions for
[00:01:58] closing the OHR have not yet been met, but still, how
[00:02:02] alarming is the situation in which
[00:02:05] the possibility of the disintegration of Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:02:09] is openly mentioned in the American
[00:02:11] Congress?
[00:02:18] Definitely
[00:02:20] these are words that caught my attention and the attention
[00:02:24] of the chairman. So,
[00:02:26] it worries me. That was not a statement
[00:02:30] of the administration, but
[00:02:34] it is clear to me and according to
[00:02:36] my analysis, that cannot happen without
[00:02:40] violence.
[00:02:43] There can be 100 variations of how it
[00:02:46] can happen, and each of them carries with
[00:02:50] it unwanted
[00:02:51] consequences.
[00:02:54] Most Bosnian-Herzegovinian
[00:02:57] citizens have not participated in any... violence for 30 years
[00:03:01] and
[00:03:05] I am really
[00:03:09] worried that for some members of Congress
[00:03:12] it is a real possibility, the way
[00:03:16] they say it
[00:03:20] and what they said, it seemed to me
[00:03:24] that it was something that would eventually
[00:03:27] follow and that we should prepare
[00:03:31] for such a scenario, but
[00:03:34] international engagement after the war in the 90s
[00:03:38] was aimed at
[00:03:42] preventing such a scenario and in the first decade after
[00:03:45] the war, we saw real progress, and only
[00:03:48] 20 years later we saw how
[00:03:52] things
[00:03:53] slowly
[00:03:56] fall apart, or rather go backward.
[00:04:00] "especially since, maybe not from the very beginning
[00:04:03] when Dodik entered politics and took power, but
[00:04:07] later,
[00:04:10] but
[00:04:15] work was done on reforming the political
[00:04:18] economic system, but
[00:04:22] obviously, they don't
[00:04:25] see that, so now.
[00:04:32] um, this business
[00:04:34] model is a model that
[00:04:38] works for Americans obviously and
[00:04:42] for you here in Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:04:45] this kind of story, constant tensions,
[00:04:48] because I see that with you here in this
[00:04:51] in this election campaign that
[00:04:55] nothing has
[00:04:56] changed,
[00:05:01] International efforts
[00:05:04] can help
[00:05:07] that the environment here might become a little
[00:05:10] better and more mature, but they cannot solve absolutely
[00:05:13] all problems, but I see, of course, that the current
[00:05:17] administration wants to extract its own benefit from this
[00:05:20] situation here in the country. I think
[00:05:24] I am not the only one who thinks so.
[00:05:50] very strange now how the roles
[00:05:54] have changed in the sense that here in
[00:05:57] America
[00:06:01] -
[00:06:04] we had people who constantly
[00:06:07] advocated for military
[00:06:10] deterrence and
[00:06:13] eventually
[00:06:15] troops that would participate in
[00:06:17] deterrence, and in recent years, it has not
[00:06:21] even been mentioned, and the European
[00:06:23] Union
[00:06:27] says, no, maybe we
[00:06:29] really
[00:06:32] need that leverage that Americans are now
[00:06:36] pulling. Mm,
[00:06:39] because that is something that must change between
[00:06:42] Europe as an actor and America and here in this
[00:06:46] region, the way things are now viewed and done in this
[00:06:49] area. It will be interesting to follow everything
[00:06:53] that will happen when it comes to the agreement related to
[00:06:56] the OHR in that context, there were
[00:06:59] questions in Congress why the next
[00:07:03] High Representative in Bosnia and Herzegovina should not be
[00:07:05] an American. The Trump administration does not
[00:07:08] rule out that possibility, but says it will not prejudge the decision.
[00:07:12] How likely would
[00:07:15] that possibility be for Washington to try to go in that direction?
[00:07:18] Washington pokuša ići u tom pravcu.
[00:07:30] The chairman raised that question
[00:07:32] himself. To be
[00:07:35] honest,
[00:07:38] my colleagues and I advocated for it a decade ago.
[00:07:42] However, under the current circumstances, I would not want
[00:07:46] to see that happen, for the High Representative to be
[00:07:49] an American,
[00:07:50] given
[00:07:53] that this administration would do
[00:07:56] it for
[00:08:00] certain reasons that I do not support,
[00:08:02] but
[00:08:05] Mr. Lawton did not
[00:08:08] express confidence
[00:08:11] that they would
[00:08:13] currently
[00:08:16] fight for that position, they had an Italian
[00:08:19] candidate they wanted to
[00:08:22] support, that was a
[00:08:25] diplomat from
[00:08:28] Italy,
[00:08:31] and Louis Krysak is now
[00:08:35] acting, so actually
[00:08:38] we have an American High Representative
[00:08:42] and he is only acting, but
[00:08:46] it has been an open question since May, when it was first
[00:08:49] raised,
[00:08:56] it worries me
[00:08:59] that the Americans wanted to remove Schmidt
[00:09:03] from BiH as soon as possible,
[00:09:05] even though in the first years and most of his
[00:09:08] mandate he cooperated well with the Americans.
[00:09:13] "We criticized
[00:09:16] him for some things, among
[00:09:20] others, the election law
[00:09:23] in 2023. But we also stood by him, that is a strategic
[00:09:27] decision, but I don't hear
[00:09:30] enough right now about what the role
[00:09:33] of the OHR is in helping
[00:09:37] Bosnia and Herzegovina to truly
[00:09:40] become a self- sustainable democratic
[00:09:44] state without international instruments,
[00:09:48] and that should be the goal that we all
[00:09:51] strive for, I don't want
[00:09:53] local solutions for
[00:09:57] local problems,
[00:09:59] probleme,
[00:10:03] where it will be signed, this is mine, this is yours,
[00:10:06] here is where we draw the line,
[00:10:10] some people think that is
[00:10:13] enough, in principle, yes, maybe, but in
[00:10:17] practice it can be a nightmare.
[00:10:18] mora.
[00:10:22] And that is. The question
[00:10:26] which
[00:10:29] is crucial for the election and how to elect the next High
[00:10:33] Representative and what that
[00:10:36] person must do after taking
[00:10:40] office. As much as in recent
[00:10:43] times, in recent months there has been talk of a new High
[00:10:46] Representative, so much has also been said about
[00:10:49] the possibility of closing the OHR. If that happens
[00:10:53] before the fulfillment of the conditions you mentioned, 5+2, what
[00:10:57] will actually be the American instrument here in Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:11:00] if things go
[00:11:02] wrong.
[00:11:08] I don't think the Americans can first unilaterally close
[00:11:12] the OHR even if they want to.
[00:11:14] But who would fill
[00:11:18] the empty space if they withdraw, or rather, fill
[00:11:21] the holes in the budget.
[00:11:26] And you yourself know that Dodik constantly says that
[00:11:29] the High Representative was illegitimate
[00:11:32] and how will we then
[00:11:36] have
[00:11:38] effective instruments? Those are only sanctions then, but how
[00:11:42] will we apply them?
[00:11:44] The reason why American sanctions were so important and
[00:11:48] number one is because the American
[00:11:51] role was still then in financial
[00:11:55] institutions, banking institutions was very
[00:11:58] important, especially when it comes to Dodik,
[00:12:02] but European instruments were never applied,
[00:12:06] they designed instruments that
[00:12:10] would, 15 years ago they
[00:12:12] designed instruments that would
[00:12:15] respond to Dodik's rhetoric,
[00:12:18] but Viktor Orbán
[00:12:21] in 2022 stopped the application
[00:12:26] of those instruments and I am afraid that Janez Janša would do the same
[00:12:29] today, as far as I know,
[00:12:32] uh, no one in the Council of Europe has raised
[00:12:36] the issue of applying sanctions, I hope they will, although
[00:12:40] if they do, I think Janez Janša would then
[00:13:07] turn to other topics that were also part
[00:13:11] of the hearing in Congress and which take up a lot of space in the public
[00:13:15] in these previous few days, that is the glorification of the convicted
[00:13:19] war criminal Ratko Mladić after his death
[00:13:22] during the funeral, which happened in Belgrade
[00:13:25] in Serbia, but certainly also done by a good part
[00:13:29] of officials here from the entity of Republika Srpska.
[00:13:32] In fact, there was not much talk in the American public about
[00:13:36] this, only a few
[00:13:38] representatives condemned such an act until the hearing
[00:13:42] in Congress, uh, then
[00:13:46] one of the congresswomen asked why the Trump administration
[00:13:49] had not publicly reacted earlier. How
[00:13:53] do you view the reactions
[00:13:55] that came from your country, should they have been
[00:13:58] different?
[00:14:05] you are absolutely
[00:14:06] right,
[00:14:09] the official response or the government's
[00:14:12] response to the glorification
[00:14:15] of Mladić came from the legislative
[00:14:18] side,
[00:14:22] even before this hearing, but not...
[00:14:25] from the State Department, not from the White
[00:14:27] House, not from any other side
[00:14:30] except the legislative
[00:14:32] side.
[00:14:36] Only the American embassy
[00:14:39] in Belgrade
[00:14:41] issued a travel
[00:14:44] advisory, they didn't even say that it was
[00:14:48] a convicted war criminal who was being buried
[00:14:51] in Belgrade, but they just said by name, Radko Mladic.
[00:14:55] is being buried, so avoid this and this
[00:14:58] area,
[00:15:02] but
[00:15:05] I am most concerned about American
[00:15:09] politics,
[00:15:11] about the fact that the Trump administration
[00:15:15] and Balkan nationalists, as well as
[00:15:18] European nationalists, that is AFD in
[00:15:21] Germany, have the same
[00:15:25] ideological direction, that is, we even
[00:15:28] saw and in
[00:15:32] the financing of the State Department of those
[00:15:35] certain groups, the
[00:15:39] lack of existence of that
[00:15:42] statement,
[00:15:46] and there was once a reward of
[00:15:50] 5 million dollars for
[00:15:52] the capture of Mladić and Karadžić
[00:15:56] in 2002, you remember
[00:15:58] that,
[00:16:01] that now that administration says nothing, that is terrible
[00:16:05] to me and
[00:16:08] that, of course, motivated
[00:16:12] the congresswoman to ask
[00:16:14] that question,
[00:16:18] and Mr. Lawton responded based on that
[00:16:21] question, that is, he
[00:16:24] had to respond,
[00:16:28] and he, as part
[00:16:30] of the administration, never raised that question,
[00:16:34] never. Former.
[00:16:39] Mhm, Ambassador, Mr. Murphy himself said in
[00:16:43] Oslobođenje that he is concerned
[00:16:45] about
[00:16:47] what kind of position
[00:16:51] that is, that is,
[00:16:54] the positions of Milorad Dodik, Čović, Vučić
[00:16:57] and other nationalists in Croatia and
[00:17:01] elsewhere are almost
[00:17:04] identical to.
[00:17:10] the worldview of the current American administration,
[00:17:13] that is what worries me
[00:17:31] military strategy,
[00:17:34] you heard it in Ruby's
[00:17:38] speech at the Munich Conference earlier this year, all the signs
[00:17:42] are there, they are consistent, so
[00:17:46] they
[00:17:49] did not issue any statement
[00:17:52] that
[00:17:56] they condemn the glorification
[00:17:59] of Mladić, perhaps because they secretly
[00:18:03] glorify that
[00:18:05] person, but silence...
[00:18:15] about ideology or
[00:18:18] the lack of ideology, some other signs about
[00:18:21] the attitude of the American administration towards Bosnia and Herzegovina,
[00:18:25] we will also look for them today, given that Ronald Johnson, Trump's candidate for
[00:18:28] ambassador to Bosnia and
[00:18:32] Herzegovina, is coming before the Senate, if confirmed, he will be the first American ambassador in Bosnia and
[00:18:35] Herzegovina who is not a career diplomat, he has three decades of military
[00:18:39] career behind him, experience in Iraq, Lebanon and other
[00:18:42] international missions, what do you know about him,
[00:18:46] which of his speeches, which of his answers will
[00:18:49] you pay special attention to,
[00:18:53] what would you like us to pay special attention to when it comes to that
[00:18:57] person?
[00:19:03] I know that he was a brigadier general in the army.
[00:19:08] and I know that since he left the service, he
[00:19:11] worked in the military
[00:19:15] industry, the defense industry, and
[00:19:19] I know, if I remember the data from
[00:19:22] his biography, that he has been in the defense,
[00:19:26] or military industry for 10 years, I
[00:19:30] will try to see what
[00:19:33] questions the members of Congress have and what answers he
[00:19:36] has in terms of resolving certain
[00:19:39] situations here,
[00:19:43] whether he
[00:19:47] would set red lines in
[00:19:50] terms of re- imposing
[00:19:54] sanctions, he would not impose them, but
[00:19:56] he can advise on the re-
[00:20:00] imposition of sanctions
[00:20:03] and
[00:20:08] I would like to see if he
[00:20:11] would
[00:20:15] focus on the defense industry here
[00:20:18] or not. I think he would, because
[00:20:22] I assume he would be interested in
[00:20:25] Americans participating in the defense industry here. I would
[00:20:29] like to see
[00:20:33] his program
[00:20:36] for this area, to hear
[00:20:40] and see how he would solve certain tricky
[00:20:58] of the average, say, American towards
[00:21:01] Trump's moves, especially in Iran, which most
[00:21:04] resulted in something sensitive and tangible,
[00:21:08] tangible in real life, those are the prices that almost
[00:21:12] the whole world pays. What would you say, what is the mood
[00:21:16] in America, when it comes to this issue, how much more is being said about
[00:21:20] foreign policy now compared to before?
[00:21:33] given that the election campaign is currently underway and before
[00:21:36] that, everyone was talking about the cost
[00:21:40] of living, and the cost of living has, of course,
[00:21:44] increased due to this
[00:21:46] war
[00:21:49] against Iran, which was
[00:21:52] a war of choice for the president,
[00:21:56] of course, we are talking about higher inflation in
[00:21:59] the country, about higher costs
[00:22:03] of living, yesterday we saw that interest
[00:22:06] rates increased, President
[00:22:09] Trump was negative about
[00:22:13] that, because he thinks that it will
[00:22:16] harm Republicans
[00:22:20] in the election
[00:22:22] in November.
[00:22:32] enthusiasm for voting for
[00:22:36] Democrats
[00:22:37] is growing,
[00:22:40] although
[00:22:43] Democrats are trying to win both houses, even though the
[00:22:46] Senate is harder to take, but
[00:22:50] theoretically it is possible given the
[00:22:54] mood of the voters
[00:22:56] currently, it is more possible than a few
[00:23:00] months ago.
[00:23:09] People are more interested now in foreign policy,
[00:23:13] of course,
[00:23:15] than before, regardless of the number of victims currently
[00:23:19] being counted. I will just mention at the end that a lot
[00:23:22] of what, when it comes to this Trump's, as you and many others
[00:23:26] call it, transactional policy, has come true from what
[00:23:30] you said when you, for example, last spoke with me about two
[00:23:33] years ago
[00:29:01] The European Parliament. These days debated, among other things, the
[00:29:05] glorification of the convicted war criminal Ratko Mladić after
[00:29:08] he was buried with honors in
[00:29:11] Belgrade. From the centers of the European Union came condemnations, but
[00:29:15] questions are also coming about how much European institutions will actually be
[00:29:18] willing to turn their messages into concrete
[00:29:22] policy, not only towards Serbia, but also towards
[00:29:25] the region. What does this case say about the EU's attitude
[00:29:28] towards the region, towards Serbia, towards Bosnia and Herzegovina for...
[00:29:32] what, as many ask, there are no red
[00:29:35] cards, but we will talk about other topics that were discussed
[00:29:38] in the European Parliament in
[00:30:11] witnessed in previous, in previous days, we know that the European
[00:30:15] Commissioner for Enlargement Marta Kos recently canceled her visit to
[00:30:19] Serbia, she said that one cannot negotiate
[00:30:22] the dignity of victims of genocide and war crimes,
[00:30:25] reacting of course to scenes, and what
[00:30:29] interests me is how you assess
[00:30:33] everything we saw from
[00:30:36] official Belgrade and part of course
[00:30:39] of Bosnia and Herzegovina, on the other hand, what you, what we
[00:30:43] had the opportunity to see as a reaction from the European
[00:30:46] Union, here Marta Kos and her move is, perhaps only
[00:30:49] the most prominent part
[00:30:51] of that.
[00:30:54] Yes, I agree with what Marta Kos said,
[00:30:57] certainly the glorification of someone.