N1BOS — broadcast
20260917 080000 UTC
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[00:00:00] to your viewers.
[00:00:02] Let's immediately address this topic which took up the most space
[00:00:06] in the introduction, namely, the glorification of the convicted war
[00:00:09] criminal Ratko Mladić, which we, which we witnessed
[00:00:13] in the previous, in the previous days. We know that European Commissioner for
[00:00:16] Enlargement Marta Kost recently cancelled her visit
[00:00:19] to Serbia. She stated that one cannot negotiate the
[00:00:22] dignity of victims, genocide and war crimes,
[00:00:26] reacting, of course, to the scenes, and what...
[00:00:30] interests me is how you evaluate, first of all,
[00:00:34] everything we saw from official Belgrade
[00:00:38] and parts of, of course, Bosnia and Herzegovina. On the other
[00:00:41] hand, what we had the opportunity to see as
[00:00:45] a reaction from the European Union, well, Marta Kos and her
[00:00:48] move is perhaps only the most prominent part
[00:00:51] of that.
[00:00:54] Yes, I agree with what Marta Kost said,
[00:00:58] certainly the glorification of someone
[00:01:00] who has been convicted of war crimes has no place
[00:01:04] in the European Union, has no place in a
[00:01:07] modern society. Uh, that
[00:01:11] is certainly not a good message,
[00:01:14] certainly, because Ratko Mladić, not only was he
[00:01:17] a criminal, in my opinion, he wasn't
[00:01:21] really a general, I mean, someone who fights against
[00:01:24] civilians, uh, he actually didn't win
[00:01:28] a single battle. That
[00:01:31] is very debatable,
[00:01:35] but uh, I cannot now
[00:01:38] condemn some individuals and citizens for how
[00:01:41] they think about Ratko Mladić and so on, but
[00:01:45] I certainly cannot agree with officials
[00:01:49] who glorify Ratko Mladić
[00:01:51] and in fact, the citizens
[00:01:54] of Bosnia and Herzegovina are losing, as
[00:01:59] are other Western Balkan countries
[00:02:02] because of such policies. I think that since Dayton
[00:02:05] a lot of time has passed and today we
[00:02:09] should be discussing completely
[00:02:12] different topics, we should be discussing today how
[00:02:16] Bosnia and Herzegovina will join
[00:02:19] the society called the European Union,
[00:02:22] uh, but I'm really worried about these events,
[00:02:26] I'm really worried that Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:02:30] uh... uh is not going
[00:02:33] anywhere practically regarding European
[00:02:37] issues, we have three entities
[00:02:40] of which only, as I see it, I mean, that's my opinion now,
[00:02:43] don't blame me, but I only see
[00:02:47] Bosniaks somehow viewing Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:02:51] as completely their own
[00:02:54] country, while the other two
[00:02:56] entities have uh...
[00:03:00] have sentiments towards either Zagreb
[00:03:03] or Belgrade and that's somehow
[00:03:07] not good, I mean, if Bosnia and Herzegovina
[00:03:10] is one country, uh,
[00:03:13] a united country, at least it
[00:03:16] should be, then it should go
[00:03:19] the European way, but
[00:03:22] I am also an observer on
[00:03:25] this board for financial
[00:03:29] resources. which are for
[00:03:32] the growth plan for the Western Balkans and Bosnia and
[00:03:35] Herzegovina is not drawing any money precisely
[00:03:39] because of those those
[00:03:42] indecisions that are not being made,
[00:03:45] so the citizens are losing and the citizens are the ones who
[00:03:49] need to consider whether the
[00:03:52] future of Bosnia and Herzegovina is in
[00:03:55] the past or whether the past is something that
[00:03:58] should be left behind and move
[00:04:02] forward. I think that's the main question and
[00:04:05] the question is, I mean, we
[00:04:08] had the Second
[00:04:11] World War 80-something years ago, there
[00:04:15] are also those who deny
[00:04:18] the Holocaust, and Srebrenica was
[00:04:21] a genocide, and
[00:04:24] we, uh, I think that someone
[00:04:27] glorifying someone who caused...
[00:04:30] Srebrenica, that is in a
[00:04:33] modern European society, that is unimaginable, that is
[00:04:36] unimaginable. Excuse me for interrupting you, that's exactly why I want
[00:04:40] to ask you, can the European Union really have a credible enlargement policy
[00:04:43] towards the Western Balkans, as long as
[00:04:47] someone who is a candidate country, whose
[00:04:50] political leadership openly glorifies a person
[00:04:54] who is guilty of genocide?
[00:04:57] Well, I think that the European
[00:05:01] Union, I mean, we all,
[00:05:05] some are surprised in the European Union why students in Belgrade
[00:05:08] didn't have European flags, that doesn't
[00:05:12] surprise me, if... "if the European Union
[00:05:15] doesn't have some clear stance towards
[00:05:19] Serbia, i.e. towards
[00:05:21] uh, those who lead Serbia,
[00:05:25] uh, then that shouldn't surprise us. So
[00:05:29] uh, it's the same for the entire Western
[00:05:32] Balkans, the European Union,
[00:05:35] I mean, we remember the past, I remember, I was
[00:05:39] almost a child when the war was,
[00:05:43] '91 to..." '95, and then I asked
[00:05:46] what the Western community was doing, I mean, they went to
[00:05:50] Belgrade until '95 and said there
[00:05:53] that Milošević was some peacemaker, I don't know what all
[00:05:56] we heard then,
[00:05:59] and we know that at Gazimestan
[00:06:02] a policy started in '89 which
[00:06:05] caused all that which burdens us
[00:06:08] even today, or which burdens the Western
[00:06:12] Balkans. So I think that the European Union should
[00:06:16] have a clear stance towards such
[00:06:19] such events and
[00:06:23] such glorifications, and of course it
[00:06:26] cannot have any credibility when
[00:06:29] there are some double
[00:06:32] standards in question. I mean, it must be clear, my
[00:06:36] personal opinion is that
[00:06:40] that has no place in Europe and it is a fact,
[00:06:44] mhm, well, when you mention your personal
[00:06:47] opinion, what do you think would be the most adequate reaction
[00:06:50] in this situation, how should the European Union have actually established that
[00:06:54] boundary between, on the one hand, European dialogue on enlargement, and on the other
[00:06:58] hand, tolerating uh behavior that is in complete
[00:07:02] opposition to European criteria?
[00:07:05] I mean, I think we all forget a little
[00:07:08] why all this is being done and why.
[00:07:12] the Western Balkans wants to be in the European Union, it's for
[00:07:16] the citizens, it's for the citizens, it's all being done for them
[00:07:19] and they should live better in the future
[00:07:23] and that's why
[00:07:26] we are too little in contact with citizens
[00:07:29] and we address them
[00:07:32] too little and explain some things
[00:07:35] and so, uh, I think
[00:07:39] that the European Union should clearly...
[00:07:42] say that we want the Western Balkans to join
[00:07:46] the European Union and that
[00:07:49] it would, but that it needs
[00:07:52] to respect uh European values,
[00:07:56] because the European Union is not
[00:07:58] just uh, it's not just about money, but it's
[00:08:02] about values and some countries, when
[00:08:06] money is drawn, when when money is at stake,
[00:08:09] then uh they do everything to
[00:08:13] uh to uh meet
[00:08:16] those criteria, but when
[00:08:19] values are at stake, then it's already harder, so
[00:08:23] a clear message should be sent uh to all politicians,
[00:08:26] politicians of the Western
[00:08:30] Balkans, that the past is the past and there
[00:08:33] can be no reconciliation, imagine the mothers
[00:08:37] of Srebrenica when they see the glorification of Ratko
[00:08:40] Mladić, that's that. That's salt,
[00:08:43] again salt, new salt on the wound, and how will
[00:08:47] we come to a reconciliation and how will
[00:08:50] we start talking about some issues
[00:08:53] that are of an economic
[00:08:56] nature, political nature and so
[00:08:58] on.
[00:09:01] Yes, you sent similar messages, given that you act as the European
[00:09:05] rapporteur for Montenegro, when
[00:09:08] certain glorification by officials
[00:09:12] there appeared... you clearly told them, whoever does that is not
[00:09:16] ready for Europe, and let's just briefly stay on that
[00:09:18] question, does it, I assume certain officials
[00:09:22] didn't surprise you, given that we know for what purposes it is used, did
[00:09:26] the narrative of young people largely
[00:09:30] in Montenegro, in Serbia, in
[00:09:34] Republika Srpska, surprise you, how
[00:09:37] devastating are their reactions or their
[00:09:40] silence after all, the glorification
[00:09:42] of Mladić.
[00:09:45] After 16 years of politics, nothing can surprise
[00:09:48] me anymore, or very
[00:09:51] little, but the fact that
[00:09:53] young people, uh, their attitudes
[00:09:57] are what they are, I think, that's the Western Balkans,
[00:10:01] you know, it's a region where you need
[00:10:04] to look in the rearview mirror more than forward. Uh,
[00:10:07] so, uh, in the Western Balkans, everything
[00:10:11] is done for.
[00:10:25] is the worst poison in the Western Balkans,
[00:10:28] nationalism is always
[00:10:31] the easiest, the easiest way
[00:10:35] for not thinking about real
[00:10:39] issues and it's harder to
[00:10:42] achieve good economic results, it's harder
[00:10:45] to give young people a
[00:10:48] future, so it's easiest for some
[00:10:51] politicians to turn to nationalism.
[00:10:55] Then emotions are stirred up,
[00:10:57] when emotions are at stake, we know how
[00:11:01] it is and that's somehow
[00:11:04] uh, some politicians enjoy the people
[00:11:07] fighting among themselves, for the people
[00:11:11] to forget about fundamental problems
[00:11:15] and then to fight about some issues
[00:11:18] of the past that should have been buried a long time ago, so
[00:11:22] uh I think. I think
[00:11:25] that the Western Balkans
[00:11:29] will still have a lot to do so that
[00:11:33] the past is not
[00:11:35] so prominent as
[00:11:39] it is. I would like, before we
[00:11:42] return with a brief overview of everything that awaits you today
[00:11:46] in the European Parliament, to briefly address the situation in your country,
[00:11:50] namely in Slovenia, a major change has occurred
[00:11:53] in foreign policy which somehow quickly became visible and
[00:11:57] attracted a lot of attention, that somehow
[00:12:01] also in Bosnia and Herzegovina here, a changed attitude towards Israel,
[00:12:04] but much less attention, it seems to me, what could be a changed
[00:12:08] attitude towards Bosnia and Herzegovina, I believe you have followed that
[00:12:11] recently the president of the National Assembly of Republika
[00:12:15] Srpska, Nenad Stevandić, was actually received on the first official
[00:12:19] visit by the president of the Slovenian
[00:12:22] Parliament, Stevanović, and this was actually the first time in...
[00:12:25] the history of our relations that an
[00:12:27] entity leader was received before state officials.
[00:12:31] Many believe that this could, uh, could be
[00:12:35] the first example, although perhaps insignificant, in the
[00:12:38] change of Slovenia's course towards Bosnia and Herzegovina, placing precisely
[00:12:41] entity officials before state
[00:12:45] ones. Does it seem to you that it will be so with
[00:12:48] Janša?
[00:12:50] Well, you know how it is, we live today in an era
[00:12:54] of political... dilettantism, a
[00:12:57] dilettantism that no longer respects any
[00:13:01] boundaries, we see
[00:13:03] that even in Washington, your previous guest
[00:13:07] talked about it, we see that
[00:13:10] everywhere, so in Slovenia, unfortunately now
[00:13:13] some political dilettantes are in power
[00:13:17] who, uh, whether they do it
[00:13:20] intentionally, whether they do
[00:13:23] it intentionally, whether they don't know what it's
[00:13:27] about, either way, it's certainly not good, first
[00:13:30] of all, one must know that Republika Srpska is not
[00:13:33] an independent state,
[00:13:37] uh, then that politician, as
[00:13:40] far as I know, he also glorified Ratko
[00:13:43] Mladić, our Mr. Stevanović who
[00:13:46] got this position, he
[00:13:49] used the opportunity,
[00:13:52] or he was given the opportunity to... to take that position
[00:13:56] of President of Parliament now
[00:14:00] he
[00:14:02] whether he's a dilettante, whether he's not, whether he knows exactly
[00:14:06] what he's doing, he talks about a visit to Moscow, then
[00:14:10] he talks about then he receives
[00:14:13] officials from Republika Srpska, uh, well,
[00:14:17] and we know that Janez Janša, our
[00:14:20] Prime Minister, took loans in
[00:14:23] Republika, i.e., his
[00:14:26] party took loans in Republika
[00:14:30] Srpska, uh, so those ties exist
[00:14:33] and I certainly cannot be
[00:14:36] enthusiastic about those events,
[00:14:39] it
[00:14:43] worries me and it's certainly not good
[00:14:46] for Slovenia, not for
[00:14:49] the Western Balkans, no, not
[00:14:52] for anyone, so I...
[00:14:55] "I can only comment on it as some
[00:14:59] uh, or as I said, either
[00:15:02] dilettantism or some intention to
[00:15:05] destabilize
[00:15:08] everything, to have chaos, to
[00:15:11] have, I don't know, Mr.
[00:15:14] Stevanović also has a
[00:15:17] representative in parliament who is, uh, who
[00:15:21] owes money to his workers, and
[00:15:24] who..." uh, I mean, these are, these are such stories
[00:15:27] that are not very
[00:15:29] European stories, so unfortunately I can only
[00:15:33] say that I hope it won't
[00:15:37] do too much damage,
[00:15:39] all of that. You say you heard
[00:15:42] part of my conversation with the previous interlocutor, I believe you
[00:15:46] only heard the end, somewhere in the middle he mentioned
[00:15:50] Slovenia, or the new Slovenian government,
[00:15:53] saying that Janša could be that new European
[00:15:55] lever of power instead of Orban
[00:15:59] for Dodik and his associates here,
[00:16:02] he mentioned the lifting
[00:16:05] of sanctions, very briefly. Is that, in your opinion,
[00:16:09] a completely likely scenario?
[00:16:13] Well, the previous Slovenian government
[00:16:16] banned uh Milorad
[00:16:19] Dodik from entering Slovenia, we'll see what this new
[00:16:23] government will do, of course
[00:16:25] Janša has some ideas that are inclined
[00:16:29] towards
[00:16:32] the right, the European right,
[00:16:35] and we'll see how
[00:16:39] strong he will be within
[00:16:43] the European Council, uh, this
[00:16:47] policy towards Israel is certainly not, not
[00:16:51] good, uh, what it
[00:16:54] is
[00:16:57] that's some, some policy
[00:16:58] of some,
[00:17:03] how should I put it, some, some,
[00:17:09] some sycophancy
[00:17:11] towards foreigners, that's how I see
[00:17:14] it, and before that was Orban, then
[00:17:17] and Thompson's Thompson's
[00:17:21] concerts, these politicians of ours
[00:17:25] go to, uh, so these
[00:17:28] are all, these are all some ideologies
[00:17:31] that, that we learned about
[00:17:34] in the 20th century and they didn't
[00:17:38] prove to be good for Europe, now
[00:17:41] earlier you asked me how young people view it,
[00:17:45] young people don't even know that,
[00:17:49] uh, history has that, uh,
[00:17:52] that characteristic that it's easily forgotten, so
[00:17:56] I mean, really, in Slovenia now there's
[00:17:59] not really a policy in power
[00:18:02] that would thrill me,
[00:18:06] but uh... The situation is what it is, I hope
[00:18:10] that eventually, I mean, we've
[00:18:13] experienced all sorts of things, so I think that in
[00:18:17] the end something
[00:18:20] will, something will
[00:18:23] be different after some, some
[00:18:27] period, if nothing else, for major
[00:18:31] changes, i.e., shifts in foreign policy, mostly I mean Israel,
[00:18:35] immediately citizens
[00:18:37] responded with massive protests and that's what's
[00:18:40] somehow most important, at least in a proper way
[00:18:44] to cultivate that culture of protest as a civic
[00:18:47] response, that's right, that's right, because, because
[00:18:51] you know, uh, one cannot, how can
[00:18:55] one not Israel uh, uh, still,
[00:18:59] uh, to say that, to
[00:19:02] piggyback on the
[00:19:05] Holocaust, it doesn't have... Putin on the Second World
[00:19:09] War and one should clearly
[00:19:12] condemn, one should condemn the policy
[00:19:16] that Netanyahu is leading today, one should
[00:19:19] condemn the policy that Putin is leading,
[00:19:22] and if the Soviet Union was a hero in
[00:19:26] World War II, Putin certainly is not, if
[00:19:29] the Jews were victims
[00:19:33] and heroes in World War II.
[00:19:37] There, uh, how many were killed, 6 million
[00:19:41] or even more, but these
[00:19:44] uh, these acts that are happening
[00:19:47] today, certainly are not, are not
[00:19:51] to their credit and today's policy cannot
[00:19:54] say that because
[00:19:57] of the Holocaust uh that what it's doing
[00:20:01] is just, that's certainly, that's my opinion, that's
[00:20:05] the opinion of all those who watch. who are
[00:20:08] Europeans, so that should be condemned, in
[00:20:11] Ljubljana there were protests immediately, a lot
[00:20:14] of people came and if such a
[00:20:17] policy continues, there will be even
[00:20:21] more of that, certainly, mhm, yes, but a message of that type,
[00:20:25] a united one, is certainly missing when it comes to Gaza,
[00:20:28] it is missing from the top of the European Union,
[00:20:31] or uh, a united, the European
[00:20:34] Union should be united in its stance towards Gaza, unfortunately.
[00:20:41] I agree with that, the strongest weapon the European
[00:20:44] Union has is unity,
[00:20:47] and when there is no unity, then that
[00:20:51] unity is already broken and
[00:20:54] the power is already less, so I fully
[00:20:58] agree with you, uh, but
[00:21:01] the parliament of which I am a member
[00:21:04] uh has condemned this on several occasions,
[00:21:08] I think the parliament should be separated from
[00:21:11] other institutions, because the parliament
[00:21:14] has strongly advocated and
[00:21:18] is still advocating for
[00:21:21] the condemnation of all these acts that we are talking