N1BOS — broadcast
20260920 063000 UTC
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[00:07:07] In a society that often talks about origin, blood, ancestors and
[00:07:11] differences among people, genetics sometimes offers very
[00:07:14] unexpected answers, how different we really are and how
[00:07:17] similar, what science says about identity, heritage and
[00:07:21] beliefs that have been passed down through generations as indisputable
[00:07:24] truths, from who actually continues the lineage to
[00:07:28] the belief that the birth of a son is particularly important for the family, to
[00:07:31] the question of how much biology, how much tradition and patriarchy
[00:07:35] stands behind such attitudes, can genetics overthrow some of
[00:07:38] our longest-held beliefs about origin, identity, heritage?
[00:07:42] The guest of the new day is geneticist Anela Zorla Kujdurović, good morning and welcome,
[00:07:46] thank you very much for being with us this morning, good morning and thank you
[00:07:49] for the invitation on such an interesting topic, yes,
[00:07:53] when we talk about origin and identity, how much can genetics really tell us
[00:07:56] about who we are? Yes, genetics, as a biology, can indeed
[00:08:00] explain our origin, blood relatives,
[00:08:04] let's say the origin of our ancestors, but we must really draw a very
[00:08:07] difficult parallel between origin and
[00:08:09] identity, because origin is one thing and identity is another. That's because many
[00:08:13] factors, including genetics, influence that identity itself,
[00:08:16] our origin, family, culture, language,
[00:08:20] customs, all of that somehow creates identity, so I always
[00:08:23] like to say that we must be careful what genetics will tell us, that we must truly
[00:08:27] filter that information in the right way and
[00:08:29] use it, we often emphasize mutual differences, especially
[00:08:33] here in our regions, generally in the Balkans, how similar
[00:08:36] we are genetically in this area to each
[00:08:40] other? Well, that's the question. I mean, for ages, we always ask
[00:08:43] that question, especially us in the Western Balkans, and I really try, and surely many
[00:08:47] of my colleagues, to explain that these are really small differences, if we talk about
[00:08:51] genetics, or genomics, genomic origin, we
[00:08:55] are not only related to the Western Balkans, but generally
[00:08:58] people, the entire human population, we differ by only 0.1%
[00:09:02] in every nucleotide, which means we are actually similar
[00:09:05] 99.9%, these differences are really
[00:09:08] small, miniature, but they are very important, why are they important? They are important
[00:09:12] in terms of medicine, they are important in terms of rare
[00:09:15] diseases, they are important in terms of oncology, because these differences now
[00:09:18] allow us a certain precision, a certain sensitivity in which direction
[00:09:22] we should optimize treatment, diagnostics and so on and so forth, in that clinical
[00:09:26] sense, unfortunately not in the sense that we use it more and more
[00:09:29] today, yes, so you say generally the human
[00:09:32] population, people all over the world, these are minimal differences, then
[00:09:36] we can only assume how minimal the
[00:09:40] differences are among us here in this area in the narrower sense, that is, in our
[00:09:43] country of Bosnia and Herzegovina, yes, that is a very interesting phenomenon that we need
[00:09:47] to discuss, we were not a closed population, we are a population that
[00:09:51] has moved a lot throughout history, we mixed,
[00:09:54] we settled in other areas, we were not consistent in one area, so
[00:09:58] we have a pure generation, a pure population, so
[00:10:02] we can go back and see the origin of our ancestors,
[00:10:05] there we would probably be even more surprised at how similar
[00:10:08] we really are in that regard, because if we look at some historical facts.
[00:10:12] The conquests of these areas, migrations from these areas towards the interior
[00:10:16] of Europe, but to other continents, then we see that genetics complicates
[00:10:19] things a bit, that we have over-simplified it - well,
[00:10:22] I dare say banalized it for some of our personal purposes that have nothing to do with
[00:10:26] science, yes, very often for political purposes, unfortunately, and I avoid
[00:10:30] using that term, but that's it, we can see here how
[00:10:34] physically similar we are to each other, so these are minimal,
[00:10:38] almost non-existent differences, that's right, so
[00:10:41] genetics cannot confirm the ideas of pure origin, special
[00:10:44] peoples or, God forbid, superiority of some over
[00:10:47] others, no, these are just, let's say, philosophies that have accompanied us throughout
[00:10:50] history, distant history and more modern, I would say, history, where we have
[00:10:54] philosophies of individuals who want to go in that direction, but
[00:10:57] genetics, or science, is very strict and clear that
[00:11:01] genetic and genetic information cannot be used in that sense
[00:11:04] of some pure superior
[00:11:07] population, so unfortunately that must fall apart and
[00:11:11] we must disappoint some, and I have always liked to be guided by facts
[00:11:14] and evidence, if we go back to the process of inheriting
[00:11:18] the transmission of genetic material between people, we see that it is quite
[00:11:22] complicated, I like to say genetics is there to complicate
[00:11:25] things for you, genetics is there to complicate everything, now I would like,
[00:11:28] well, to complicate the story a bit with this next question which I hope
[00:11:32] will also break down some myths imposed on us primarily
[00:11:35] by patriarchy, you know how they say here, for example
[00:11:39] when you are pregnant for the second time and you are carrying a girl, then they say, oh never
[00:11:43] mind, third time's the charm, so it's a big deal and
[00:11:47] a big celebration is still held here if a son is
[00:11:50] born, because there is this belief that a son
[00:11:53] continues the lineage. I recently saw a piece of information
[00:11:57] that actually puts things
[00:12:00] differently, and then I contacted you, Anela, and asked if there was
[00:12:03] a scientific basis for it,
[00:12:07] so who actually continues the lineage, a son or a daughter, that
[00:12:11] will now send many families into a trance,
[00:12:14] to dismantle that patriarchy, that is,
[00:12:18] it's more of a social belief, again I say it has nothing to do with science, because
[00:12:22] Ivana, when we talk about the process of inheritance, the creation
[00:12:26] of a new individual, both mother and father
[00:12:29] participate equally, meaning material is exchanged, so half
[00:12:33] of the genetic material is given by the mother, half by the father, so if we look
[00:12:36] at the genetic profile of an individual, it's half
[00:12:40] mother's material, half father's, we cannot say who continues the lineage
[00:12:44] as a lineage, because the material is equally there. Now there are differences
[00:12:47] in what the mother transmits and what the father gives, that's where we mostly
[00:12:51] heard about mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondria are,
[00:12:53] let's say, DNA is otherwise located in the nucleus,
[00:12:57] that is, in the nucleus of our cells, but
[00:13:00] there are other organelles, that is, mitochondria, which are the main
[00:13:03] producers of, let's say, energy
[00:13:06] for our cells, that is, in the organism, that mitochondrial DNA
[00:13:10] is present in both boys and girls, but it is exclusively
[00:13:13] inherited from the mother's lineage, meaning the mother will transmit it to
[00:13:16] both boys and girls, but that girl will transmit that mother's
[00:13:20] mitochondrial DNA, then the question arises, who then actually
[00:13:23] continues that lineage, is it the son, is it the girl,
[00:13:27] then regarding this question, we can say, it's the girl, that it's
[00:13:31] not, let's say, a male lineage, boys continue the lineage, then we
[00:13:34] go back to complicate the story, we go back to the Y
[00:13:37] chromosome which the father, the father is the one who, or
[00:13:41] that sperm determines whether it will be a boy
[00:13:45] or a girl, that is, whether it will be a Y chromosome or an X chromosome,
[00:13:49] so when the father gives a Y chromosome, that Y chromosome remains
[00:13:52] with the boy, because XY is male.
[00:13:55] sex and XX is female sex, so we are a bit
[00:13:58] contradictory here, meaning we have girls who only transmit mitochondrial
[00:14:02] DNA and are indeed, in quotation marks, more special in transmitting that part
[00:14:06] of information, there are about 36, between
[00:14:09] 36 and 40 genes that differ from boys, and
[00:14:13] boys are those who have a Y chromosome and girls do not, so it's
[00:14:16] very complicated, a difficult answer, but what is
[00:14:20] certain is that it's more a matter of social norms
[00:14:23] than actual genetics." "Precisely, for centuries women even
[00:14:27] in these areas, in certain parts of the Balkans, perhaps
[00:14:31] even today, felt guilty if they didn't give birth to a son,
[00:14:34] an heir, and yet it is scientifically
[00:14:38] proven that the father is the one who determines the sex
[00:14:41] of the child, so I mean that's it, it's simple, because we have an egg cell,
[00:14:44] we have a sperm, the egg cell carries XX material, the father
[00:14:48] is the one who will determine whether to transmit his X or his Y,
[00:14:52] yes, but this is also very interesting now..." what was
[00:14:56] somehow not talked about before, so
[00:14:59] you say it's still a question,
[00:15:01] but perhaps we could say if we looked at it proportionally, so
[00:15:05] who continues the lineage, a boy or a girl, that is, a son or a daughter, to
[00:15:09] a greater extent it is done by the daughter or the girl,
[00:15:12] we can say that, perhaps it would be put that way, but
[00:15:16] again, scientifically we have to be very careful precisely because of that way of transmitting
[00:15:20] information, inheritance, but yes, girls have that, let's
[00:15:23] say, extra. excess mitochondrial
[00:15:26] DNA that carries a certain number of genes that is more specific than in
[00:15:30] boys, that is indeed true, yes, that actually certain information
[00:15:34] appeared on the internet now, various
[00:15:37] theories and photographs circulate
[00:15:40] on social networks and that's what I sent you, it's actually
[00:15:44] the claim that your lineage is continued by your daughter, not your son, people still claim
[00:15:48] the opposite, but the unbroken genetic thread actually
[00:15:51] extends through the female line, that's
[00:15:54] precisely that mitochondrial DNA, because it's constantly, is this correct
[00:15:57] sentence,
[00:15:59] we played with words a bit in the sense that it should be
[00:16:03] adequate for social media to attract attention, but the truth is somewhere in
[00:16:07] the middle. of the way, somewhere on, I always have to be very
[00:16:10] careful, we definitely have that mitochondrial DNA that comes from
[00:16:13] the mother's side, only girls have that, but we have to be careful because
[00:16:17] of other material, and as I said, genetics is there to complicate everything a bit, it's
[00:16:21] not that simple, but mitochondrial girls, yes, it's
[00:16:24] only transmitted through that lineage, what genetically mm does a child
[00:16:28] inherit from the mother and what from the father? I think I'm here, it seems
[00:16:32] to me, to disrupt all those topics,
[00:16:34] we often also have on
[00:16:37] social networks and here I am very careful and I see that we are going in
[00:16:41] the direction that genetic and genetic information
[00:16:43] is used
[00:16:45] inadequately, that is, we create these hooks to attract
[00:16:49] attention, so we have that physical predispositions are inherited
[00:16:52] from the father, intellect is inherited from the mother, these are some, let's say,
[00:16:56] main sentences that we encounter, but again we go back to
[00:16:59] the beginning of my sentence that in the creation of a new being, both mother
[00:17:03] and father participate equally, half of the material is transmitted,
[00:17:07] but if we follow what
[00:17:10] is on the Y chromosome which only boys have, there are some
[00:17:14] traits, predispositions, let's say diseases that are only characteristic for
[00:17:18] the Y chromosome, that is, for the male sex and also for the X
[00:17:21] chromosome, that is, those two X's plus mitochondrial DNA which is characteristic
[00:17:25] only for the female sex, but we can only say mother will give us that
[00:17:28] intellect, you can see you're smart like your mother, or tall
[00:17:31] like your father, that's it, the creation of traits is
[00:17:35] a very complex process at the genetic
[00:17:38] level. "And also many external factors influence the manifestation
[00:17:42] of the same, yes, so we don't have clear answers there,
[00:17:46] after all, in real life we can see that sometimes a child physically
[00:17:50] resembles the mother, sometimes resembles the father, similarly when we talk
[00:17:54] about those intellectual
[00:17:56] traits, that is, I don't know, after all, emotional
[00:18:00] intelligence, sometimes the mother
[00:18:03] plays a greater role, sometimes we talk about those dominant genes, so we talk more about
[00:18:07] it. of recessive dominance where it will be more
[00:18:10] expressed in which trait it will be expressed and what is, for example,
[00:18:13] specific is when a child is young and then, oh today
[00:18:18] dad, that phenomenon is because actually we are
[00:18:22] working on the strength of the expression of that
[00:18:25] dominance of genes and external factors influence that, that is, that epigenetics that
[00:18:29] will actually form morphological and physiological traits
[00:18:33] in a child until adulthood, that's why I say
[00:18:37] I always talk to my patients and when I explain genetics, I try
[00:18:40] to simplify it, but genetics is indeed a science that is quite
[00:18:44] complex and always has a thousand shades of gray, I can never give
[00:18:47] a concrete answer, that is how it is because inheritance processes are
[00:18:51] very complex, there are always some exceptions, even though
[00:18:55] there are rules, yes, after all, there are a thousand nuances when we talk
[00:18:58] about that character, about everything inherited, very often some
[00:19:02] see the mother in the child, others see the father, and actually everything
[00:19:06] depends on who noticed some specifics that
[00:19:09] they had in their eyes, after all, because we are also
[00:19:12] very often divided, so we have
[00:19:16] relatives or friends who come and say, "He's just like his mom," and then others
[00:19:20] say, "How can he be just like his mom, look, he's just like his dad?" So
[00:19:23] well, it somehow depends on who is looking at that child, so there are still a lot
[00:19:26] of those social norms,
[00:19:29] yes, my colleague whispered to me, it depends on whether it's the mother-in-law or the father-in-law,
[00:19:32] you're saying what I think,
[00:19:36] yes, and is there anything else in genetics that could surprise people when it comes to
[00:19:39] inheritance through the male and female line? Well,
[00:19:43] I think there are many traits,
[00:19:47] or even diseases that are, for example,
[00:19:50] inherited only from the mother's side, that is, from the mitochondrial side,
[00:19:53] and usually, as I said, that mitochondrial
[00:19:56] is much more neurological now, because
[00:20:00] the mitochondrion is an organelle that is responsible for energy production, now
[00:20:04] imagine all the traits, I say, physiological, for which a certain
[00:20:07] amount of energy is needed to start, imagine that your organism is a serious
[00:20:11] engine that needs, well, energy, so a very large
[00:20:15] number of damages to the brain, to the central nervous
[00:20:18] system, eyes have actually occurred, these are
[00:20:21] rare diseases, but they are exclusively characteristic for mitochondrial DNA
[00:20:25] damage to mitochondrial DNA, I told you at the beginning, that is somewhere
[00:20:29] described 36 to 40 genes for, let's
[00:20:33] say, ophthalmological diseases that are very characteristic and with which we
[00:20:36] are now faced. that it is much harder to treat
[00:20:40] than, let's say, diseases that occurred in some other type of DNA,
[00:20:43] that is, not that mitochondrial DNA, that is characteristic,
[00:20:47] also diseases such as Duchenne muscular dystrophy. terrible disease,
[00:20:51] boys get sick, but mothers transmit,
[00:20:54] that is, that X, because boys are X, Y, that one
[00:20:57] defective X that the mother transmitted is completely sufficient due to the form
[00:21:01] of inheritance, dominant inheritance to be expressed, in
[00:21:04] girls the situation is a bit different because we have an XX
[00:21:08] set that makes us healthy carriers of
[00:21:11] Duchenne muscular dystrophy while boys are those who get sick, well, if I can
[00:21:15] use the opportunity to say that we have in Bosnia and Herzegovina. a number of patients
[00:21:19] with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, it is a very progressive, severe disease,
[00:21:22] genetically, pardon, caused disease, that we still do not have
[00:21:26] a drug available on the list for our children, it is a very difficult
[00:21:29] disease which, the sooner it starts to be treated, the symptoms
[00:21:33] of complete muscle system deterioration
[00:21:37] will at least be alleviated, not to mention
[00:21:40] some aggressive types that even lead, I think,
[00:21:44] unfortunately, to a worse
[00:21:45] outcome.
[00:21:58] Stay with us for the continuation of the news, don't miss this story:
[00:22:01] Dženis, David, Džena, Lejla,
[00:22:04] Esma, Adem, Dženis and Benjamin.
[00:22:20] The reason I resigned is known to you and
[00:22:23] the public.
[00:22:26] One dead, no one guilty, the people remember
[00:22:29] the system. Quick reaction of fire
[00:22:32] units resulted in users being quickly
[00:22:36] evacuated.
[00:22:45] You can take everything from me, but I will not give up my dignity.
[00:22:51] "This nation can no longer
[00:22:53] suffer,
[00:23:02] they have their comfortable chairs,
[00:23:06] which means they have
[00:23:07] humiliated us,
[00:23:12] dear viewers, good evening, welcome to the news, the news
[00:23:15] of the day.
[00:23:21] "Grab with your teeth and hands, with everything
[00:23:25] you can, just to save your own life, not just your own, but your
[00:23:28] children's, tonight live in Izmir and New
[00:23:31] York, this place here is the worst,
[00:23:35] let's go now to the Polish border, only from
[00:23:38] 12 at night until 7 in the morning,
[00:23:40] 25,000 people entered, our team
[00:23:44] also followed in Ankara, we are now connecting live with our colleague Esmir Milović, there were
[00:23:48] many conflicts between. Vera, there were many arguments. Gathered
[00:23:52] citizens in Sarajevo say that violence must
[00:23:55] stop.
[00:23:59] I never found that peace
[00:24:01] and
[00:24:05] it will exist here as long as it exists, and when there is a united Bosnia,
[00:24:09] which I will live to see. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, everything is changeable, only
[00:24:13] the crisis is eternal. Shame on you.
[00:24:16] What's controversial? That someone here now brings a bacillus.
[00:24:20] are the miners of the Zenica Brown Coal Mine in the
[00:24:23] Raspotočje pit to take responsibility here, that's
[00:24:27] the three of you.
[00:24:30] Our
[00:24:32] country,
[00:24:36] well
[00:24:38] known.
[00:24:42] An honest man, a decent man, a wonderful
[00:24:45] man.
[00:24:53] Love each other, people, be human, you see it's
[00:24:56] possible.
[00:25:02] Bosnia and Herzegovina leaves a strong impression on everyone who visits it.
[00:25:19] I say. This is paradise, dear viewers,
[00:25:22] welcome to a new day, you are watching today
[00:25:24] live,
[00:25:33] welcome to
[00:25:35] eggs,
[00:25:39] this morning we are in
[00:25:40] Bihać,
[00:25:46] good morning this Sunday morning to our'.
[00:25:50] in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia and Croatia. Good
[00:25:54] morning from Mostar and just
[00:25:57] look at this beautiful sight behind
[00:25:59] me.
[00:26:02] is being saved, on the festival street and tonight,
[00:26:32] the...
[00:30:20] We welcome the audience, we have fairly good size audience today, uh, I want to
[00:30:24] remind everyone that uh, the rules of this committee are very clear, we have
[00:30:28] zero tolerance for any interruptions or any attempt
[00:30:31] to uh communicate with anyone here at the dias or
[00:30:35] with the witnesses, and as a result of that, anyone who attempts to do so will be
[00:30:39] subject to the usual things we do here, which is removal and
[00:30:43] arrest, so thank you all for coming and we enjoy
[00:30:46] having people here to watch the business of the united
[00:30:50] states
[00:30:52] senate committee, so with that,
[00:30:55] I want to talk, I'm going to start with you, Mr.
[00:30:59] Johnson.