N1HRV — broadcast
20260920 193000 UTC
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[00:00:00] How did the Deliblato Sands
[00:00:00] grass, mhm. Travmatte these become the Deliblato wasteland? Those who tried
[00:00:04] to answer this question could be
[00:00:07] imprisoned for spreading panic. One should not
[00:00:10] use
[00:00:14] through political, through
[00:00:17] alleged political struggle
[00:00:20] untruths
[00:00:21] so that someone could reap certain,
[00:00:25] well, political points.
[00:00:28] "It's simply not true, it's false, it's ultimately
[00:00:32] shameful, it's hypocritical. Who
[00:00:35] lied on August 7th when this same minister
[00:00:39] stated that Serbia doesn't need help?
[00:00:42] This was a fire on August
[00:00:46] 5th, look,
[00:00:48] this was a fire on August
[00:00:52] 7th, he declares that things are under control,
[00:00:56] already then you should have activated..."
[00:00:59] applied, it's not enough to have it on "the EU civil protection mechanism, not claim that you have
[00:01:01] everything under control. Afterwards, you dealt with geopolitics,
[00:01:05] securing overflight permits for the Russian plane, while
[00:01:08] the fire lasted for a month.
[00:01:12] During that time, the political fire in the public service is extinguished
[00:01:15] by the commissioner, even the one for public information,
[00:01:19] rather for the protection of equality, who describes everything
[00:01:23] that succeeds in the burnt special nature reserve.
[00:01:27] It is obviously fertile ground for the spread of that
[00:01:30] fire, misinformation that breaks out there where
[00:01:34] all these you expect it and then a lot of people
[00:01:37] obviously fall for it not realizing that they might sometimes
[00:01:41] cause panic, that they might sometimes commit a criminal offense, does
[00:01:44] the same criterion for causing panic
[00:01:48] apply even when pro-regime media speculate that Albanians
[00:01:51] wanted to cause fires? This was
[00:01:55] an attempt to cause chaos in the south
[00:01:58] of central Serbia. Some most likely Albanian
[00:02:02] terrorists fired
[00:02:05] a so-called fireball, which is some device with a parachute
[00:02:10] preventing and that was fired to cause a fire somewhere, while the fire in Banat was raging,
[00:02:14] the government's propaganda machine was silent, and when the problem became
[00:02:18] so big that it couldn't be ignored, the prosecutor's office
[00:02:22] threatened proceedings to determine responsibility for
[00:02:25] spreading panic and not. Should we even talk about fires
[00:02:28] while the pre-election campaign is flaring up? They
[00:02:32] are panicking because it's Vučić's pre-election campaign and that's why
[00:02:36] they are threatening now, trying to silence people, especially
[00:02:40] on social media who keep posting endless examples
[00:02:43] of inadequate reactions, lack of equipment,
[00:02:46] machinery, and ultimately a complete lack of any
[00:02:49] planning, those firefighters died there, the poor
[00:02:53] ones died, the fire came up behind them, we see it in the videos.
[00:02:56] So I see who is panicking there. The people who put out the fire
[00:03:00] made superhuman efforts, says the leader of the Serbia Center party,
[00:03:03] but believes that the problem arose
[00:03:07] in the organization. I assume that it is a consequence
[00:03:10] of that SNS cadreing, primarily with insufficiently
[00:03:14] qualified people in leadership positions
[00:03:18] and because politics interferes with the profession, here
[00:03:22] it interfered again. Vučić says: I said not to call
[00:03:26] or when to call, who are you to say? "There should be automatic procedures
[00:03:30] that are applied in such a situation, in the meantime
[00:03:33] this is how the special nature reserve looks
[00:03:37] in a country that is, according to the president,
[00:03:40] a European superpower when it comes to
[00:03:43] equipping aircraft for firefighting. Miodrag
[00:03:47] Sovilj, N1
[00:03:48] Belgrade.
[00:03:51] Mr. Milanović, you are not involved in politics, but did politics nevertheless interfere in
[00:03:55] the profession, uh, and all of this that we have seen and that we were able
[00:03:59] to follow." during the past month or
[00:04:02] so,
[00:04:04] well, I believe it did, otherwise some
[00:04:07] information would have been available
[00:04:10] to everyone, uh, namely, the emergency sector
[00:04:13] on August 8th requested help from
[00:04:17] the Copernicus system for rapid
[00:04:20] mapping of burnt areas, probably because they
[00:04:24] saw that the area was quite large, mhm, they
[00:04:27] could have used that information to more easily... they could have brought that fire
[00:04:31] under control, so if
[00:04:34] on the 8th it was
[00:04:38] estimated that there was a problem
[00:04:41] with extinguishing this fire, then
[00:04:45] we later heard from the news, for example,
[00:04:48] the information lasted for several days that the burnt area was 3,500
[00:04:52] hectares, mhm, and through this system all citizens,
[00:04:56] if they wanted to, could have seen that the area was significantly larger.
[00:05:01] This then creates a distrust in other information
[00:05:04] you receive from the responsible party, mhm, and then we came to the point
[00:05:08] that allegedly on the 11th help was requested
[00:05:12] from Russia, if on the 11th there was information
[00:05:16] that such help was necessary, why, the question arises, why was it
[00:05:19] not requested from the European Union, i.e.,
[00:05:23] why was the civil protection
[00:05:26] mechanism of the European Union not activated, which
[00:05:30] was activated on August 20-something, when we
[00:05:33] officially requested help from the European Union and when
[00:05:36] four helicopters and some
[00:05:40] ground units for firefighting
[00:05:44] from Romania, Germany,
[00:05:46] and I think a group from Hungary arrived, uh,
[00:05:49] in any case, if it had arrived 10 days earlier or 12,
[00:05:53] we assume somewhat logically, we don't have to be great experts, that the situation
[00:05:57] on the ground would still have been
[00:06:00] different,
[00:06:02] well, we can now assume anything, okay to guess,
[00:06:05] but yes, it's very, very probable, on the other hand,
[00:06:09] it's easy to be a general after the battle, it should have been done then... "This,
[00:06:13] unfortunately, the situation is what it is, we
[00:06:16] now have the consequences of all that,
[00:06:19] mhm, that we are facing, it's a burnt area of
[00:06:23] over 12,000 hectares, that's what we
[00:06:26] call the net burnt area, which will certainly be much
[00:06:29] larger, uh, because
[00:06:32] within that area, uh, we have
[00:06:36] many of these green oases that are not currently seen
[00:06:39] as burnt areas, there was probably a ground
[00:06:43] fire or even if not,
[00:06:46] systems will be damaged, there will
[00:06:50] certainly be a loss of these forests and the damage will probably
[00:06:54] be around, I estimate, 15-16,000
[00:06:57] hectares, which is almost 50%
[00:07:01] of the surface of the Deliblato Sands - in the second part
[00:07:04] we will talk about rehabilitation and possible
[00:07:08] renaming of that area, which I mentioned in the introduction, just a quick
[00:07:12] question: before the commercials, you mentioned here, of course,
[00:07:15] that we sought help from the European Union, uh, helicopters
[00:07:19] arrived, you talked a lot about how in fact we
[00:07:22] are saving, and then it costs us all a lot that helicopters
[00:07:26] often are not used immediately
[00:07:29] when the fire is small, when it could perhaps be,
[00:07:33] if not completely extinguished, then somehow brought under control,
[00:07:36] uh, because that problem, of course, we have nowhere to get water
[00:07:40] from when it comes to Canadairs in Serbia. The configuration is different, but
[00:07:44] is that problem with the use of helicopters, which we of course know
[00:07:47] cost money, questionable? Well, I don't know what the situation
[00:07:51] was specifically regarding this fire in Deliblato
[00:07:54] Sands. I think I saw somewhere in the news that they very
[00:07:58] quickly launched at least 21 or I'm not sure,
[00:08:02] activated a helicopter, but generally the experience
[00:08:05] of some 12.5 or some other when the fire was
[00:08:08] I don't have concrete information, but I can say generally...
[00:08:12] that during last year and previous years
[00:08:16] helicopters are used very restrictively in firefighting,
[00:08:20] mhm, and they should be used more and not spared in those
[00:08:23] initial phases when a fire just breaks out, because then
[00:08:27] it's easiest to bring the fire under control, thereby
[00:08:31] saving resources, because one hour of helicopter
[00:08:34] flight costs I assume between five or
[00:08:37] ten thousand euros, those are not small resources if
[00:08:40] you are extinguishing a small fire, you
[00:08:42] will extinguish it for an hour or two hours, later
[00:08:46] we witnessed that throughout the day three to four
[00:08:49] helicopters flew uh
[00:08:53] for several, I think ten days or more, in any
[00:08:57] case, that's a topic for consideration, let's go briefly to commercials, we'll be back in the studio.
[00:09:15] The repair of damage after the hurricane will last weeks, if not months, to be home by
[00:09:19] 10, not a second later, that is clearly a violation of human rights,
[00:09:22] which I am fishing for,
[00:09:24] oh, this is a historic moment, we
[00:09:28] are with you in every episode, maxv,
[00:09:31] already 20 years part of your program, Croatian
[00:09:34] Telekom,
[00:09:38] do you think it's easy to get into a Podravka product?
[00:09:45] You have to be much better than the competition,
[00:09:49] congratulations, you got the role, but we admit,
[00:09:52] the most important origin, because with
[00:09:55] us the main roles are given only to originals from Croatian
[00:09:59] fields. Domestic in the main role.
[00:10:03] Podravka.
[00:10:20] We are back in the N1 Television studio, the Red Line show, tonight we are discussing the fires in the region
[00:10:24] that raged during the summer, now they are calming down a bit in September,
[00:10:27] but unfortunately some are still active. We covered
[00:10:30] Croatia and Serbia in the first part of the show, Bosnia and Herzegovina somehow
[00:10:34] remained aside, but let's mention some data. According to the World
[00:10:38] Bank report from 2004, so two
[00:10:41] years before what we are witnessing now
[00:10:44] and the increased number of fires, uh, and according
[00:10:48] to data from the European Forest Fire Information System, fires in Bosnia and
[00:10:52] Herzegovina between 2006 and
[00:10:55] 2018 affected about
[00:10:58] 320,000 hectares of land, or 7%
[00:11:01] of the country's territory. From 2019 to 2024, another
[00:11:05] 310 thousand hectares were affected.
[00:11:08] Uh, of course, this land
[00:11:11] covers, forest land covers as much as 63%
[00:11:15] of the territory, and official data on the total damage in
[00:11:18] this country actually do not exist. Unofficial
[00:11:22] estimates speak of losses of several tens of millions
[00:11:25] of dollars. Mr. Kasalo, these are the data that I just presented
[00:11:29] uh according to some European
[00:11:33] data, they don't look promising at all,
[00:11:36] uh, with outdated equipment that we have already witnessed, about the planes we
[00:11:40] talked about, Republika Srpska has them, the Federation
[00:11:43] as well, but they are simply not intended for specialized
[00:11:47] firefighting, with of course that status
[00:11:50] of firefighters, for changes in the law for many
[00:11:54] years actually have not been put on the agenda, what is then
[00:11:58] the future of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and we see 63%
[00:12:01] of the territory under forests?
[00:12:05] That's right, you are right, exactly as you said, if
[00:12:08] these problems of firefighter status
[00:12:11] and financing from higher levels are not resolved soon,
[00:12:15] not just around 90% of it falls on
[00:12:18] local self-government, i.e., cities and
[00:12:22] municipalities, uh... the
[00:12:25] situation will not be good, because there are also
[00:12:28] volunteer fire departments that operate in the area of municipalities and cities, they play a big
[00:12:32] role in
[00:12:35] extinguishing forest and
[00:12:37] agricultural areas, and
[00:12:41] they have no compensation here, they volunteer just
[00:12:44] because they love people, nature and want
[00:12:48] to protect their own.
[00:12:52] We saw that much of it comes down to these volunteer
[00:12:55] fire departments. On social media, there was also
[00:12:58] the story of a 21-year-old girl, Lara Gvozden, who is
[00:13:02] mentioned as having participated as a minor with her father, so
[00:13:05] family traditions are at play when
[00:13:09] they choose this kind of humane calling,
[00:13:13] but it can't just be reduced to volunteer fire departments.
[00:13:15] That's
[00:13:18] right, Lara Gozen, she's a member
[00:13:21] of the Volunteer Fire Department, Svetana Lištani and...
[00:13:25] as a young girl she acted, I know her personally, but
[00:13:28] also once she became an adult, she actively
[00:13:32] participated in these bigger fires that occurred in
[00:13:36] Bosnian Krajina and now the one that was in the area
[00:13:40] of Drmalje, Poliše village, Lištani, Rujani,
[00:13:43] Čazlija, truly an exceptional person, not only
[00:13:46] her, but all members of one
[00:13:50] good association that operates in the city area,
[00:13:53] meaning the DVD. Doška and Svetana Lištani
[00:13:56] and I want to emphasize that a way must be found
[00:14:00] to financially help these parts
[00:14:03] as well to solve the problem of professional
[00:14:07] firefighters and improve their vehicle
[00:14:10] fleet, the premises in which they stand guard
[00:14:13] and reside, and there needs to be an emphasis on education,
[00:14:17] continuous training, and the like.
[00:14:19] Local self-governments alone cannot handle this, and
[00:14:23] new technologies must be implemented. You talk
[00:14:27] to colleagues from Croatia and Serbia about these new technologies, various
[00:14:30] warnings, and in Herzegovina, this is not
[00:14:32] the case. I don't know, not only regarding
[00:14:36] fires, but also other natural or other
[00:14:38] disasters, it's truly
[00:14:41] high time to take concrete
[00:14:44] measures, yes, this year I think
[00:14:47] provided enough warnings for Bosnia and
[00:14:51] Herzegovina to approach this prevention, although we also see - in
[00:14:55] European Union countries, well, it is still advocated that
[00:14:58] prevention is important, early
[00:15:01] detection, uh, I still wanted to ask just one more question
[00:15:05] related to the Deliblato Sands and actually to other
[00:15:08] areas that suffered fires. At one point, I mentioned
[00:15:12] that actually in the Serbian Parliament, while it was still burning
[00:15:16] in the Deliblato
[00:15:19] Sands, there were urgent amendments to the law that would
[00:15:22] allow the renaming of this land. For some other
[00:15:26] purposes, Mr. Milanović, did you follow
[00:15:29] that, can we really expect it, we saw
[00:15:32] President Vučić who denied it and said that as long as
[00:15:36] he is in any position, he will not allow the renaming
[00:15:38] of land in the Deliblato Sands,
[00:15:41] but is there now, as they say, where there's smoke, there's fire,
[00:15:45] unfortunately it's said that way, do you
[00:15:48] expect such
[00:15:49] changes?
[00:15:52] Well, I hope that this won't be implemented in practice,
[00:15:56] although, uh, such a change in the law was really not
[00:16:00] necessary at such a moment when we
[00:16:03] had the biggest fire ever recorded in
[00:16:08] Serbia, uh, so far as records are kept,
[00:16:10] so in some
[00:16:13] countries, like Greece and
[00:16:17] Spain,
[00:16:20] uh, the repurposing of land burnt in fires is not
[00:16:23] allowed, and that measure lasts
[00:16:26] 30 or 50 years, something like
[00:16:29] that should perhaps be introduced here
[00:16:33] simply to dispel
[00:16:35] uh
[00:16:37] "the suspicion that someone wants to perhaps
[00:16:41] by burning forests create or
[00:16:44] open up space for some other activities, for some other
[00:16:47] uh jobs that would be performed there later, right? "Yes, the accusations are serious
[00:16:51] in any case, and now we won't talk
[00:16:55] a priori, but these are the facts we present, that that
[00:16:58] law, or rather the amendments to the law, were passed at that time in the Serbian
[00:17:02] Parliament, of course the opposition had its reasons for commenting
[00:17:06] on it in that way." But the expert public, in any case, was not even
[00:17:10] informed about it, so we'll see what happens next,
[00:17:13] Mr. Tucaković, when it comes to
[00:17:16] Croatia, uh, burnt areas, what about
[00:17:20] them? Well, first of all, I can
[00:17:23] thank everyone who helped in the first days, especially Miša, to help with
[00:17:27] the rehabilitation, to remove those vehicles, so all those communal
[00:17:31] companies, what about the burnt areas, of course,
[00:17:34] those areas need to be cleaned, so Croatian forests, so... all
[00:17:37] of them proceeded to remove fallen trees and so on, that is
[00:17:41] now positive what happened, so that all that is cleared, of course
[00:17:45] we need to restore, so the forests, so we cannot leave
[00:17:49] it to chance again to grow Aleppo pine so that it just
[00:17:52] sprouts and actually creates a new problem for us again in five years,
[00:17:56] uh, a new problem, a new cover that will again very
[00:17:59] quickly burn down, so we need to approach this really professionally
[00:18:03] and really, I would leave this to the experts, these are
[00:18:06] the foresters who will answer such questions, so
[00:18:10] what to do, we have time, we have experience now in
[00:18:13] all this, and let's try to solve it, so
[00:18:17] we should leave it to experts. So, that's when it comes to the forest and what
[00:18:20] will be planted and so on, but I didn't only ask you that, but I heard what is
[00:18:24] happening in Serbia, that simply uh, the land is being renamed for something
[00:18:28] else, that is, it is very easy, through legal solutions, so
[00:18:32] for burnt land, so that there is, I think we even have it resolved that it is impossible
[00:18:35] for the next 10 years to do anything there, that it can be
[00:18:39] resolved with different legal solutions and so
[00:18:43] on, and that also needs to be addressed, not for someone to burn it and then have construction
[00:18:46] land, which is senseless, it makes no sense, but simply
[00:18:50] nature needs to be protected from construction, from concreting, and all that
[00:18:53] is happening. We are at the end of the show, just briefly, you heard the association "Volim
[00:18:57] Omiš," they officially requested from six
[00:19:00] competent institutions to determine who made the decision
[00:19:04] not to use this warning system, which we already talked about.
[00:19:07] You heard that, yes, yes, yes, we received that inquiry, the response
[00:19:11] for that association is currently being prepared. Okay, we'll see what the result will be,
[00:19:14] literally briefly, the question we mentioned, so more
[00:19:18] prevention, less operations, how does that happen, here in Serbia,
[00:19:22] briefly just.
[00:19:24] Well, it is necessary to invest more in
[00:19:28] uh, controlling combustible material, meaning
[00:19:31] preventing the accumulation of combustible material. This can be solved
[00:19:35] in several ways, first of all. "My colleagues, foresters,
[00:19:38] must incorporate those measures that will reduce the risk of fire
[00:19:42] more into forest management plans,
[00:19:45] on one hand, on the other hand, we need to
[00:19:49] consider changing the legal regulations that would
[00:19:52] allow the use of so-called preventive
[00:19:55] burning outside the season, mhm, in order to reduce
[00:19:58] the accumulation of combustible material and reduce the probability
[00:20:02] of these large fires that can cause
[00:20:05] great damage, well, when it comes." Herzegovina, here in one
[00:20:08] sentence, the same question, so more
[00:20:11] prevention, less operations, how does that work in your case, just briefly?
[00:20:15] The same in the area, for example, for the city there is also
[00:20:19] a large forest area, we have
[00:20:22] frequent large forest fires on Mount Dinara
[00:20:24] and funds must be found
[00:20:28] for building fire roads,
[00:20:30] clearings, and also forest
[00:20:34] management companies operating there must have their regular personnel
[00:20:38] for early detection of fires, but
[00:20:41] also we have the awareness of the older
[00:20:43] population of these shepherds, because we have
[00:20:47] large, large fields of
[00:20:50] areas, so they use old methods
[00:20:53] of cleaning their fields, so that is the human factor that can also
[00:20:57] be influenced, that is, which is almost
[00:21:00] 95%, if not more, is
[00:21:02] the factor that they are caused by human
[00:21:06] factor, we need to change the awareness and a different
[00:21:08] way of thinking about the harmfulness of burning agricultural land
[00:21:12] and in order
[00:21:15] to
[00:21:18] reduce fires. Uh, literally, uh, Mr.
[00:21:22] Tucaković, for the end, that's your sentence that I quoted multiple
[00:21:25] times, yes, that's my sentence, so more prevention, less
[00:21:29] operation, so investing in prevention, not just
[00:21:32] these roads, but also through legal solutions, more
[00:21:35] institutions, so the law on forests, the law on agricultural land,
[00:21:39] the law on fire protection, so several laws need to be harmonized
[00:21:42] and applied, but also
[00:21:46] controlled whether they are
[00:21:49] paper. Thank you very much for being guests on tonight's show, I think we
[00:21:52] tried to establish whether it is indeed possible to have more
[00:21:56] prevention, less operation, it seems that it's not that impossible, but that the
[00:22:00] human factor is important and that prevention could be controlled,
[00:22:03] or rather, implemented from kindergarten onwards
[00:22:07] through schools, so that people are educated, first children, then older people,
[00:22:10] on how to protect themselves from forest fires, which are, as we see,
[00:22:14] spreading across the region again this year, unfortunately. Thank you
[00:22:18] for being from N1...
[00:22:20] Stay tuned, see you next Friday at the same time. Good night.