N1SRP — broadcast
20260920 183000 UTC
526 transcript segments
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[00:00:34] Good evening, so
[00:00:37] let's start like this, for months now we have known that
[00:00:40] students are winning, but from a few days ago we also
[00:00:44] know the exact date of victory, I
[00:00:47] didn't say this, this was said by Professor Nemanja
[00:00:51] Karović of Belgrade University, on Monday, so
[00:00:55] five days ago on the day when
[00:00:57] students were in front of the directorate. they started their first
[00:01:01] march towards victory, so from the rectorate, the link
[00:01:05] to hand over their ballot boxes,
[00:01:09] but let's talk about something else tonight, let's
[00:01:12] talk about
[00:01:14] think about how to achieve that
[00:01:16] victory, whether victory
[00:01:20] is achieved by some numbers and
[00:01:23] is it true what many
[00:01:26] analysts and researchers say.
[00:01:30] And politicians, about victory
[00:01:33] is decided by turnout.
[00:01:36] Are there any among you who are still
[00:01:40] undecided whether to go out or how
[00:01:43] political actors who are fighting for victory
[00:01:46] on October 25th
[00:01:49] identify those undecided, i.e.
[00:01:53] you, how to increase turnout? We're talking about that
[00:01:56] tonight, tonight on "Utisak Nedelje" at the beginning. Quoted is Professor of Belgrade
[00:02:00] University, and more precisely, assistant professor
[00:02:03] of the Faculty of Education, Teacher Educator,
[00:02:06] Nemanja Karović. Good evening,
[00:02:09] thank you very much for coming tonight and the candidate
[00:02:13] on the student list,
[00:02:16] uh, let me ask that right away,
[00:02:20] uh, these days, around
[00:02:23] uh, Mr. and Professor and
[00:02:26] Doctor Ilija Srdanović, who is the list leader.
[00:02:30] "How is that interpreted in public, that is, the first on the list, he
[00:02:33] emphasizes that he is not the list leader, but that he is
[00:02:36] the first among equals, uh, let me
[00:02:39] ask you, uh, your
[00:02:43] number is 213, 213, uh,
[00:02:46] if you are all first among equals, does that mean that the chances of
[00:02:50] you becoming prime minister are equal to those of
[00:02:53] Srdanović or someone 128 or
[00:02:57] 14, well, I don't know. Now,
[00:03:00] what are the greater chances for what, but I can say that
[00:03:04] what Mr. Srdanović said actually stems
[00:03:08] from the spirit of the student protest movement itself, which
[00:03:11] is based primarily on diversity of thought, on many
[00:03:14] different people, of different affiliations who are
[00:03:17] united in one identical goal, so his statement
[00:03:21] indicates that, so we are all present here,
[00:03:25] we are different from each other, but we have an internal unity. and
[00:03:28] goal, now those probabilities, what, when
[00:03:32] it goes, those are all questions that come after
[00:03:35] when something happens, it should be something
[00:03:39] soon and it should be groundbreaking,
[00:03:42] Tara Jovanović, Tara
[00:03:44] is a master's student
[00:03:48] of the Faculty of Civil Engineering in Belgrade, uh, here,
[00:03:51] Tara, uh, before
[00:03:54] we get into the real conversation, let me ask you this,
[00:03:57] which also exists as a kind of
[00:04:00] dilemma, I don't know why, so, even though
[00:04:03] the students said two years ago that students would not be
[00:04:07] on the list, that the student list does not mean
[00:04:10] that students are on the list, this is still presented as a great
[00:04:14] discovery and a great miracle, like what kind of student
[00:04:17] list is it where there are no students, let's put an end to that, why are there no
[00:04:21] students on the student list? First of all, thank
[00:04:25] you for the invitation, and why there are no students, as you also
[00:04:28] said, from the very beginning, when we talked, when we asked for elections, we said
[00:04:32] that students would not be on the list. Our job,
[00:04:36] I mean, is to study, to finish
[00:04:38] faculties, to stay in this country, to
[00:04:41] continue our education in our profession
[00:04:45] to be the best experts, and
[00:04:48] now, at the moment, we are leaving that role on the student list
[00:04:52] to real experts, people who are already
[00:04:55] established, uh, whom we trust, and here with
[00:04:58] us is our professor. Today he is a truly
[00:05:01] excellent representative of our list, and
[00:05:04] a person we trust greatly. So,
[00:05:07] uh, there are no students on the list. We said that from the start, that it would not
[00:05:11] be left. This role to people we
[00:05:13] trust, Stefan Simić, good evening, Stefan,
[00:05:17] we talked earlier, you were there seven years ago for the first
[00:05:21] and last time until today, uh,
[00:05:24] today in the role
[00:05:27] of a councilor in the city assembly, on the list of the Movement of Free
[00:05:31] Citizens, tonight on the show as
[00:05:34] a representative of the opposition party that
[00:05:37] decided to participate in the elections and
[00:05:41] in that way. increase the chances
[00:05:44] for that victory that Professor
[00:05:48] Karović spoke about. Did I say something inaccurate, just in
[00:05:52] this formulation, so do you believe that
[00:05:56] uh the absence of the Movement of Free Citizens
[00:05:59] increases the chances of victory? Uh,
[00:06:02] I believe that the support of the Movement of Free Citizens for the student
[00:06:06] list, that is, the list number three, the student list, students are winning
[00:06:09] increases the chances for victory. "I am someone who
[00:06:13] deeply believes in parliamentary democracy and I believe that parties should conduct
[00:06:17] political battles, that they are authorized representatives in
[00:06:21] all parliaments, not only in the republican but also
[00:06:24] locally. Among other things, I am a councilor in the city
[00:06:27] assembly of Belgrade, but we are currently living in an extraordinary
[00:06:31] situation, both socially and politically. Therefore,
[00:06:35] I believe that we had to make an
[00:06:38] extraordinary move, which is to take a step back and to..."
[00:06:42] Support the student list. That is, we, at the main board,
[00:06:46] made a decision as the Movement of Free Citizens to either go
[00:06:50] united, all parliamentary opposition in one column, where we
[00:06:53] believed that we would then uh, simply have a 100%
[00:06:57] chance to pass the census, to be a partner to the student list
[00:07:01] when that didn't happen, to support the student
[00:07:04] list. I believe that this is a good decision, and Goran
[00:07:08] Ješić, good evening, President of
[00:07:10] Solidarnost and tonight as
[00:07:14] one of the coalition partners on
[00:07:17] the list of European Serbia under
[00:07:20] the name Marinika Tepić Zdravko Punaš,
[00:07:23] here is Julianov's solidarity and all other names. Yesterday
[00:07:27] the list was submitted, yes, today it
[00:07:30] was verified, uh, is this question for you,
[00:07:34] whether uh, you
[00:07:37] now feel like three to
[00:07:40] one in this division, or do you feel like a partner.
[00:07:44] to the Movement of Free Citizens and the student movement,
[00:07:47] absolutely as a partner, someone who wants
[00:07:50] the victory of the student list,
[00:07:54] to be completely sure that I would like to wake up on the 16th or
[00:07:57] 26th and have 126
[00:08:00] deputies from the student list and opposition representatives in
[00:08:04] parliament, and we will do everything to make that happen.
[00:08:07] Maybe we have different views, maybe we think
[00:08:10] about how to achieve that in a technological sense, some have more, some less
[00:08:14] experience, we can talk about that on the show, but we are completely
[00:08:17] equal, we talked before the show, I have two children who are students,
[00:08:21] uh, you know, uh, that I have been
[00:08:25] spending time with students of the Norwegian University from the beginning, and
[00:08:28] time in front of prisons, in front of police stations, and so on and
[00:08:32] so forth, so there's no doubt that we are all on the same task.
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[00:14:45] once again, good evening, never too much, good
[00:14:49] evening, tonight on "Utisak Nedelje", Goran Ješić,
[00:14:52] Stefan Simić, Tara Jovanović.
[00:14:55] Nemanja Karović, we are talking about how
[00:14:59] to achieve victory on October
[00:15:02] 25th and how much turnout is what
[00:15:05] determines, how that turnout is increased,
[00:15:09] what is the difference between, as we said in
[00:15:12] the first five minutes, partners and
[00:15:16] Professor Karović, I ask you first, so
[00:15:19] uh, can you
[00:15:22] describe the person
[00:15:25] as you imagine them, who
[00:15:29] has not yet decided whether
[00:15:31] they will go out, for whom they will vote, or who
[00:15:34] decides not to go to the elections, so that you
[00:15:38] know who you are addressing, who is that
[00:15:41] person? I can imagine, because I meet such people, I know,
[00:15:44] I hear comments, but sometimes even in
[00:15:47] the lack of conversation or avoiding certain topics, one can
[00:15:51] sense that someone is undecided or that they are fed up
[00:15:54] with everything. I understand people who, for example, went through
[00:15:58] various demonstrations in the 90s, who saw changes, and then they
[00:16:01] mutually, and then they uh, because of that, became disillusioned in
[00:16:05] the meantime, and now everything seems to them as if they have already seen it. and as if
[00:16:08] things are repeating, but here it would be good to take into account that the entire
[00:16:12] era has changed, that
[00:16:16] uh events from one time are not completely
[00:16:19] analogous to current events, there are also
[00:16:23] people who don't believe in the possibility of any change at all, and there are people who, for example, are afraid
[00:16:26] of change, they think who knows what will happen, they feel some
[00:16:30] possible uncertainty, but I can, for example,
[00:16:34] say certain questions that I ask myself. I assume
[00:16:38] when I think about how to decide on things,
[00:16:41] for example, think about how many people are on the conscience
[00:16:45] of this regime, how many people have suffered because of someone's
[00:16:48] corruption, or for example
[00:16:52] whom the police baton is so easily
[00:16:55] raised against, whom that same police force does not dare
[00:16:59] to approach or legitimize, who are
[00:17:02] the richest people in Serbia, where do they get their money, is
[00:17:05] crime involved in that acquisition, or for example to turn on
[00:17:09] the television and try to describe in three words what
[00:17:13] they see, or for example, to try to remember when they saw
[00:17:17] a government representative participating in a
[00:17:20] fair, free, organized public debate with their
[00:17:24] political opponent, or for example compare their income
[00:17:27] with the prices on the shelves and
[00:17:31] at gas stations, or for example to
[00:17:34] look at what our health centers and hospitals look like. What is
[00:17:38] happening in our schools, to remember the idea of government representatives that
[00:17:42] universities should be shut down and replaced
[00:17:45] by some accreditation-dubious
[00:17:48] institutions to teach our children, then something very important and painful
[00:17:52] for everyone when we witnessed it, there are children in
[00:17:56] Serbia, or there were at one point, who could not get a place in
[00:17:59] kindergarten because their parents were not
[00:18:02] to the liking of local bullies, or to
[00:18:05] remember that monstrous statement. Or the idea that
[00:18:09] a child, that a child is the property of the state until
[00:18:13] they turn 18, or for example, to leaf through the most forgotten
[00:18:17] book of our present day, that is the Constitution of the Republic of Serbia, and just
[00:18:21] compare the provisions of that constitution with the content of, say,
[00:18:24] the Brussels Agreement, the Washington Agreement, the Franco-German
[00:18:27] plan, or for example, to remember that the deputies of this regime in
[00:18:31] the assembly did not vote for the resolution on the genocide
[00:18:35] of the Independent State of Croatia, or for example, to look at who are president, who pays them
[00:18:38] and on whose behalf they work, and something that we must never lose sight of,
[00:18:42] because it is of cardinal importance, is that this regime was ready, it
[00:18:46] is still ready to hand over the natural resources of Serbia to
[00:18:50] Rio Tinto, so that this company can rake in
[00:18:53] money at our expense, leaving us with polluted rivers, poisoned
[00:18:57] water, barren nature.
[00:19:00] Now let everyone answer these questions,
[00:19:02] let them decide
[00:19:05] freely. Now that you have listed all this,
[00:19:09] how many actors are there, according to
[00:19:13] your view, on the political
[00:19:17] scene and what is being decided on October 25th?
[00:19:21] Uh, I think the situation is completely clear.
[00:19:24] There are two actors, one actor is
[00:19:28] the leader of the regime, whose name I don't even need to mention, on the other hand,
[00:19:32] the student movement, I wouldn't even say the student list, because the student
[00:19:35] list is the people that students have chosen, the student
[00:19:38] movement and the first man of the regime, that's where the
[00:19:41] matter is broken, or according to the slogan of the student pre-election
[00:19:44] campaign which has already been formed, Serbia or mafia,
[00:19:48] that's the choice, that should be the focus from beginning to end, that's where
[00:19:52] the matter is broken and uh, so discussing some
[00:19:55] secondary topics, uh, how many columns
[00:19:59] are coming out, these calculations about
[00:20:02] turnout, who carries how many percentages and so on, I think that
[00:20:06] dilutes the main focus so that it could simply harm, so to speak, the
[00:20:10] edge of the political edge of the campaign, Tara, now I
[00:20:13] ask you, let me ask you this first,
[00:20:17] if you would address that someone, if you could give
[00:20:21] us a composite sketch as the professor did, have
[00:20:25] you met that someone who has not decided and who is not
[00:20:29] going to vote? Yes, uh, we have been
[00:20:32] campaigning as students since December last
[00:20:36] year, that is, knocking on every door in Serbia,
[00:20:39] and among other things, we have come across undecided people.
[00:20:42] They were interested in the student list, uh, they
[00:20:46] essentially gave us support, but they still
[00:20:50] wanted to see who would be on the list. Uh, now we have
[00:20:53] solved that problem, but we have
[00:20:55] more often encountered a phenomenon, and that is that people tell us that they have not
[00:20:59] voted since the 90s, for example 97, 98, that they say
[00:21:03] that now they can't wait to go out and vote,
[00:21:07] so we have met more of those people
[00:21:09] than undecided ones, and if I could
[00:21:13] send a message to the undecided, I would say
[00:21:17] that this victory that we will achieve on October 25th
[00:21:20] should be a common one, a popular victory,
[00:21:24] because nothing can defeat the people, and it is very
[00:21:28] beautiful when students and citizens together
[00:21:31] with common forces go out on that day
[00:21:33] of victory, but now let me ask you very specifically,
[00:21:37] here's what I asked Mr. Ječić before
[00:21:40] we started, do you uh perceive
[00:21:44] these opposition lists that are running
[00:21:47] in the elections, so there is... authentic
[00:21:50] right-wing, new DSS and
[00:21:54] monarchists, and this list for
[00:21:58] European Serbia, that is, the Party of Freedom and Justice, the heart
[00:22:02] of solidarity, do you perceive them as
[00:22:05] partners? Is it a common victory
[00:22:09] that some people vote for them, some for you,
[00:22:13] and when it's all added up, it's a common victory? Well,
[00:22:17] first of all, we hope, given that we have stirred up the whole
[00:22:20] country, that we will win the majority ourselves,
[00:22:24] we are confident in that.
[00:22:26] We are focusing on our campaign, our
[00:22:30] citizens - but as for other
[00:22:33] parties, uh, I believe that now
[00:22:37] that elections have been called, everyone has their own independent
[00:22:40] research. Uh, we believe that every party should be
[00:22:44] responsible to its voters regarding crossing
[00:22:47] the census. In that sense, we call on and hope
[00:22:51] that every party will pay attention to its voters, so that
[00:22:55] their vote will not go to
[00:22:58] the regime. I would like to point out one fact which is
[00:23:02] simply a necessity of the elections themselves, and that is
[00:23:05] that the parties that ran in
[00:23:07] the elections will necessarily
[00:23:11] begin to view the student movement, i.e. the student list,
[00:23:14] not only in terms of cooperation but also competition.
[00:23:17] So, if we are running the same electoral... race, that means there
[00:23:21] is some rivalry, there is, even if there is some
[00:23:24] unity at a certain level, so things are now becoming more complex,
[00:23:28] more layered, and that's why, for example, we have heard some quite negative
[00:23:32] statements from some opposition leaders in recent days, about, for example,
[00:23:36] uh, that uh
[00:23:39] parties that do not run in elections to support students
[00:23:43] are leading to monism or to the loss
[00:23:46] of pluralism of opinion, for example, and then it is said
[00:23:50] uh... "If there is only SNS and the student list in the Parliament, that is the end
[00:23:53] of the multi-party system." Those are excessively strong words, they are not
[00:23:57] adequate at all as concepts to speak about. On the other
[00:24:00] hand, if something can be said with certainty about the student movement,
[00:24:03] it is that it is a movement of many minds,
[00:24:07] and then, when we ask ourselves why
[00:24:10] are we even discussing many minds, one mind, and so on, when
[00:24:14] opposite us we have madness, that should remain
[00:24:18] in focus, so on one side, reason, on the other
[00:24:22] side, madness, that should be the focus from which we should not deviate.
[00:24:25] And I believe this is the moment
[00:24:28] where I don't even have to ask you, so
[00:24:32] uh, with what you have
[00:24:36] definitively submitted the list,
[00:24:38] definitively uh the list has been accepted, have you
[00:24:42] definitively put an
[00:24:44] end to the discussion about whether you will cross the census
[00:24:48] or not? Have you done that? Convinced that you will cross the census
[00:24:52] and contribute to this result that everyone
[00:24:56] in this studio is waiting for? We believe that we are serious
[00:24:59] and that we considered such a decision completely responsibly
[00:25:03] and all research has shown, even the Movement of Free
[00:25:06] Citizens, that there is a serious
[00:25:10] amount of votes going
[00:25:13] towards pro-European lists, towards former joint
[00:25:16] lists, but now these are lists gathered here. With
[00:25:20] these three organizations, there is no way we can be rivals, we will
[00:25:23] never be rivals, because we have only one evil to defeat.
[00:25:27] There is a serious group of people in Serbia who firmly
[00:25:31] believe in the European Union, there is a serious group of people who have
[00:25:34] been fighting for 25 years in this country. The great thing
[00:25:38] is that for the past year and a half, the youth
[00:25:42] has recognized the problem in this society and awakened
[00:25:45] this society. We had various criticisms about what you have done
[00:25:48] so far. Well, you know, I wish there were many more, and
[00:25:51] when we protested against theft, when Marinika was on a hunger strike,
[00:25:55] and when we held various protests, and finally, when,
[00:25:59] before the student protest, after November 5th, a
[00:26:02] bunch of people were arrested in Novi Sad, and there were about 30 or 50 people,
[00:26:06] mostly politicians, in front of the prosecutor's office and court in Novi
[00:26:09] Sad. I'm sorry there weren't 5,000. I was in detention
[00:26:13] then. If there had been 5,000 people then, no one would have dared again.
[00:26:17] to keep them from protesting in prison, and we spent thousands and thousands
[00:26:20] of days, we experienced beatings, we experienced harassment,
[00:26:24] we experienced all sorts of things and that
[00:26:27] moment when, first of all, thanks to the involvement of the University of Novi Sad,
[00:26:30] then the University of Belgrade.
[00:26:33] That moment when Serbia woke up is a great moment, we are all on the same task and I return
[00:26:36] to this second answer, there are studies,
[00:26:40] all of them said that there is a serious group that
[00:26:43] has a problem with a part of politics or a clear
[00:26:46] statement of the student list, that is completely natural, if you want
[00:26:50] to defeat such evil in Serbia that closes
[00:26:53] gymnasiums, that closes universities, they did not mind that schools
[00:26:57] and universities work, if they have no problem that one of the best gymnasiums in
[00:27:01] the country absolutely works, where are... the best students, the best
[00:27:04] artists, the best athletes, to appoint a person
[00:27:07] who is absolutely for a closed institution, not to lead that
[00:27:10] gymnasium, they have no feeling for that society, we must defeat that evil
[00:27:13] together and I say there is a group of people who
[00:27:17] have a problem to decide on that because
[00:27:20] they have a feeling for their things, primarily in relation to
[00:27:24] a clear statement towards the European Union, to a clear statement towards
[00:27:27] Russia, towards Belarus, towards everything that are influences in this
[00:27:30] society, wants to be clearly defined.
[00:27:32] Let's stay on that, just two sentences, we are here
[00:27:36] to articulate these questions together with the aim of your
[00:27:40] first question, to increase voter turnout, we clearly said
[00:27:44] what we think about that, entering inside we consider as
[00:27:47] a partnership without conditioning, now
[00:27:50] how do you deal with the risk of not passing
[00:27:53] the census, would it be because there is then
[00:27:56] a possibility that certain votes which, i.e., mandates that
[00:27:59] would have gone to you if you had passed the census, come, of course. to
[00:28:03] the student list, but to the regime, so there is a possibility
[00:28:07] that that will happen, as responsible people, how do you deal with that
[00:28:10] risk, we have talked a lot about that, I would not want a single
[00:28:13] vote to go to that side, at this moment we are completely sure of that, I said
[00:28:17] seven days ago, one thing that today I think Dragan Đilas also
[00:28:21] repeated, I don't have time because of this, we are entering
[00:28:24] parliament completely sure, we have a situation that is a complete
[00:28:27] anomaly, we are somewhere of a generation, so we followed the elections from
[00:28:31] '91, I was... participated for the first time, we have an
[00:28:35] anti-campaign that absolutely does not come from you, but specifically
[00:28:38] comes towards the pro-European opposition, because
[00:28:41] the government knows that you can
[00:28:45] only have a partner with us, I will tell you
[00:28:48] one important thing, but please, this is a very important thing,
[00:28:52] when you need to test who your future partners will be, I will say
[00:28:56] one thing that is completely clear, now it is currently speculated that he will use
[00:28:59] this chaos to call presidential elections. very soon, seven days after
[00:29:03] these, we have no dilemma,
[00:29:06] no uncertainty that the European opposition
[00:29:09] will absolutely without any objections support the candidate of the largest opposition
[00:29:13] list, that is the student list, without any conditions, ask all
[00:29:17] other partners, will they
[00:29:19] do it, you will know who will give you support in parliament, we can talk about
[00:29:23] those numbers a little later, just one more sentence, that is the test, those
[00:29:26] elections are a referendum, parliamentary
[00:29:30] elections, unfortunately due to the D'Hondt system. there is no, and due to everything else, they cannot be
[00:29:34] a referendum, because you already have
[00:29:37] 15 mandates of minorities at the start today, you know how minorities voted in the past
[00:29:41] period, you know that the SPS was created, which was on the edge, Rasim Ljajić was added to it, that is already
[00:29:44] 35, 6, 7, 8
[00:29:47] uh uh parliamentary votes against you, we
[00:29:51] don't need a Pyrrhic victory, we need you to have
[00:29:53] 126, I would most like it yourselves, I hope with our
[00:29:57] help you will have it without any conditioning, I would like to say something,
[00:30:00] or if now... it's my turn, but here
[00:30:04] yes, I would like, Stefan, to hear you, so
[00:30:07] uh, I will understand
[00:30:10] this uh, what Mr. Ješić said,
[00:30:13] so, if our topic is, how to
[00:30:16] increase turnout, this could be understood
[00:30:20] as follows, turnout increases
[00:30:22] with the conviction of all members of this
[00:30:26] coalition that there is a significant number
[00:30:29] of voters of these pro-European parties. who will not vote in
[00:30:33] the elections if they are not in that
[00:30:37] race explicitly on the ballot papers, what is
[00:30:40] the assessment of the Movement of Free Citizens?
[00:30:43] Uh, well, look, I can agree with both, do you have
[00:30:47] voters who you know will not vote
[00:30:50] if there is no
[00:30:54] list that is clearly committed
[00:30:57] to European integration?