N1SRP — broadcast
20261102 113000 UTC
532 transcript segments
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[00:00:50] I want to inform you that based on
[00:00:53] a stratified
[00:00:56] sample, it is therefore clear...
[00:01:00] that we lost
[00:01:02] absolutely impossible under these elections, the student-blockade list won,
[00:01:04] what are your impressions, it means
[00:01:13] freedom, free,
[00:01:16] come on, country, how do we know
[00:01:20] to preserve it,
[00:01:22] honey, one,
[00:01:30] kiss you, thank you for
[00:01:34] timely informing us all
[00:01:36] these years, especially during the protests that lasted
[00:01:40] the last two years in Serbia. Tonight
[00:01:43] we celebrate victory, tomorrow we build the future. Great support
[00:01:46] for our television tonight from all gathered citizens, as
[00:01:50] they now admitted, many were worried, but
[00:01:54] they say, no longer, so that is one of the messages
[00:01:56] we convey. Here in front of the student list headquarters,
[00:02:00] Usame Zukorlić's list, the Movement for
[00:02:16] Unification, managed to enter parliament and will have one parliamentary
[00:02:20] seat, however, what is interesting is that this list is the third
[00:02:24] strongest in the repeated elections at six polling stations in
[00:02:27] Aleksinac. Milan Stojanović is at this place,
[00:02:30] Milan, how did such a large number of votes for
[00:02:34] the SPP list in Aleksinac come about?
[00:02:36] Well, inexplicable for many,
[00:02:40] that's why we are here today and I immediately pass
[00:02:44] that question to Dušan Ostojić, who was a member, he is still a member
[00:02:48] of the election commission, here in several places
[00:02:51] the voting was repeated on Sunday, are you surprised
[00:02:54] how many votes exactly
[00:02:57] were for this list? Was it in earlier election
[00:03:00] processes, in that village where it all
[00:03:04] happened, votes for minority lists? Yes, that's why this case is very
[00:03:07] interesting, it means from 1990
[00:03:11] when multi-party elections in Serbia started, never has any
[00:03:15] minority party of Bosniaks received
[00:03:18] a single vote in that place, it means in the last elections it was zero
[00:03:22] votes, right? In these repeated
[00:03:26] ones, 53 votes for...
[00:03:30] this Bosniak party, why do we suspect there were
[00:03:33] problems? For the simple reason that
[00:03:36] Bosniaks had a very small number of votes they
[00:03:40] needed to win, some 150 votes, in order for their
[00:03:43] second MP to enter parliament, where could they
[00:03:47] do that? Only in places where elections were repeated, where were elections
[00:03:51] repeated the most? In the municipality
[00:03:53] the main tools of work, but of Aleksinac, and what did they use? They used the opportunity
[00:03:56] to find a mechanism in one village to get their
[00:04:00] 53 votes. What I have to say as a representative of the election commission,
[00:04:03] on the very election day, everything was
[00:04:07] okay there, everything we noticed, we reported, even
[00:04:10] the president of the election commission called the police, the police went to
[00:04:14] the scene, intervened, at the polling station itself, meaning inside
[00:04:18] the place where voting took place, there were no problems, but we have
[00:04:21] the following information: that certain people in that
[00:04:25] village were cruising all day, offering
[00:04:28] two, three, four or 500 dinars for a vote. That's how
[00:04:32] they did it, meaning they met certain people, offered them
[00:04:36] money. These are all unverified stories
[00:04:39] for now that we received from people on the ground who
[00:04:43] for security reasons are not willing to give such testimony
[00:04:47] to the police,
[00:04:49] feet, feeling of unverified or officially unconfirmed, because there is an important difference, that's right.
[00:04:52] officially unconfirmed, meaning, and verified in the sense, you know
[00:04:56] what, we are a small community where we all know each other, each of us...
[00:05:00] knows whom, how, and how much he can trust. Our choices
[00:05:03] are completely accurate, meaning let's be honest right away, with the fact that
[00:05:07] people are in a position of not taking sides, so what
[00:05:10] they tell us they don't want to... say in official institutions, and now you
[00:05:14] are connecting that with voting for
[00:05:17] Usame Zukorlić's list, exactly , he somewhere
[00:05:21] stated, I think I saw, that they do not
[00:05:24] agree with it, even if someone in Aleksinac was
[00:05:27] buying votes, that they will sanction it.
[00:05:31] How do you interpret that? Well, listen, I completely
[00:05:35] understand him, you know, when you catch a man who has stolen milk, he
[00:05:38] certainly won't say that, will he? He will always, simply, not only
[00:05:42] him, but everyone in such a situation will form a diplomatic
[00:05:45] story, a story to distance himself from all of that, but
[00:05:49] he did not submit an initiative to renounce those votes, did he?
[00:05:53] But he said, okay, maybe there were some problems, we will
[00:05:56] investigate all of that, but I accept those votes that people gave
[00:06:00] us, and I accept the second
[00:06:04] MP in the republican parliament, right? We'll see what
[00:06:08] happens next, whether he will accept, who will renounce what,
[00:06:11] whether Du... Ostović, thank you very much from
[00:06:14] Aleksinac, a member of the election commission in this
[00:06:18] place where, as you heard, there was a repeat in several
[00:06:21] polling stations.
[00:06:24] Thank you, Milan, Milan Stojanović reported from
[00:06:26] Aleksinac.
[00:06:33] And we repeat the news from the beginning of the show, Business in close to the Serbian Progressive
[00:06:36] Party, the owner of Alta Bank, Davor Macura, was arrested
[00:06:40] last night, Nova ere learns.
[00:06:42] Previously, the police had been searching the premises of that bank for more than 30 hours
[00:06:46] since Saturday, which the Executive Board of the National Bank of Serbia
[00:06:50] revoked the operating license on Saturday morning and declared its
[00:06:54] bankruptcy. More on that in the continuation
[00:06:57] with Milan Ćulibrk, editor of the Economy section of Nedeljnik
[00:07:00] Radar, so here's just a brief comment
[00:07:04] on this news, we are still waiting for its confirmation.
[00:07:07] Radar and you have written about this on several
[00:07:11] occasions, how... Macura came from
[00:07:14] one STR to managing
[00:07:17] an entire financial
[00:07:20] empire.
[00:07:22] Well, yes, and the consequence of that was Mr. Macura's lawsuit
[00:07:25] that we had damaged his business reputation,
[00:07:29] didn't we? Now we see that in five days he managed to collapse a bank
[00:07:33] that boasted that it was the fastest growing in
[00:07:36] Serbia. Uh, the point is that
[00:07:39] Mr. Macura's business success somehow...
[00:07:42] Party coming to power
[00:07:46] sometime in 2012, especially in the last 10 years
[00:07:50] when he really managed to build a business empire
[00:07:53] in a relatively short time, which in the West
[00:07:56] would take about 100 years, at least. Uh,
[00:08:00] the point is that we, on several occasions,
[00:08:03] both my colleague Nataša Korlat and the rest of us from Radar,
[00:08:07] wrote articles where based on
[00:08:10] official documents, we found data that the state
[00:08:14] even subsidized him in all his business
[00:08:17] ventures. He completed many
[00:08:20] deals thanks to
[00:08:24] some privileges, let's not forget that he
[00:08:27] bought IMT right before the law was changed
[00:08:31] that would allow the conversion
[00:08:33] of land of failed factories
[00:08:37] into urban construction land with plans to build hundreds
[00:08:40] of thousands of square meters of residential
[00:08:44] buildings on that site. And when you multiply that by the average price of 3.5 or
[00:08:48] 4,000 euros, we come to the fact that these projects were
[00:08:51] planned at a value of some 600 to 700 million
[00:08:55] euros. Unfortunately, this is not the first
[00:08:58] time. We have seen something similar before, it happened
[00:09:02] after the defeat of the previous government in 2012,
[00:09:06] when Mr. Bogićević's business empire
[00:09:10] also collapsed overnight, complete with all
[00:09:13] dependent companies. I just fear that this with Alta
[00:09:17] Bank is just the beginning,
[00:09:20] uh, because the Alta group includes other companies
[00:09:24] that were directly connected to Alta Bank and depended
[00:09:27] on it. And here's just one more question before
[00:09:31] we leave you to work, there's a lot
[00:09:34] of work for Radar these days, was it then
[00:09:37] expected that the first, let's say, financial
[00:09:41] victim of the change of government would be this
[00:09:43] group? Well, frankly, I'm not surprised, I'm only surprised
[00:09:47] by the speed with which it all happened, on the one hand,
[00:09:51] on the other hand, I'm surprised that the National Bank didn't react
[00:09:54] much faster, so already after the election night, although
[00:09:58] there were some signals that the bank started emptying, that
[00:10:02] some people withdrew money from
[00:10:05] their accounts even before the elections, before Sunday, just in case, as they say, to
[00:10:09] put it somewhere safe. And... especially
[00:10:13] those rumors intensified on Tuesday,
[00:10:17] we have a subsequent announcement from the Higher Public Prosecutor's Office that already on Tuesday
[00:10:20] it ordered the National Bank to investigate what was
[00:10:24] actually happening to that bank, and now the
[00:10:27] key question arises, who managed in those five days until
[00:10:30] the night between Friday and Saturday, when the Executive Board of the National
[00:10:34] Bank decided to revoke Alta Bank's operating license, who managed
[00:10:38] to withdraw that money? I can't claim anything, but
[00:10:41] I dare to bet that it was done by
[00:10:45] privileged businessmen, very
[00:10:48] close to the top of the Serbian Progressive Party and the former
[00:10:52] state leadership, so that...
[00:10:55] Unfortunately, many public and state enterprises that
[00:10:58] were ordered by the authorities to
[00:11:02] deposit their money there, were not able to withdraw it.
[00:11:05] So there were hundreds of millions of euros
[00:11:08] of state money from state enterprises, and the question is
[00:11:12] what will happen to that in the end when, because now everything depends on
[00:11:15] how the bankruptcy will end. Let's not forget that the
[00:11:19] bankruptcy of those four failed banks that were closed back in
[00:11:23] 2002 is still not
[00:11:25] finished, so this can drag on.
[00:11:29] I just hope that the new government, when it is established, will manage to
[00:11:32] speed up that bankruptcy procedure so that
[00:11:36] creditors who
[00:11:39] have money there will be able to at least partially recover
[00:11:42] it. I don't believe that many citizens kept their money there
[00:11:46] because I don't see
[00:11:49] a motive for that, except that that bank offered slightly higher interest rates on
[00:11:53] savings than all others, but when someone
[00:11:56] offers you something more than everyone else, that is somewhere a signal
[00:12:00] for you to ask yourself why this is being done.
[00:12:03] Uh, I believe that all of this collapsed so quickly
[00:12:07] because neither Mr. Macura nor the people
[00:12:10] with whom he closely cooperated and who enabled him to build
[00:12:14] that business empire, believed that on October 25th
[00:12:17] they would win the elections and that they would be able to behave as before
[00:12:21] for another four years.
[00:12:24] Thank you very much. For this first comment, our colleague Milan
[00:12:27] Ćulibrk, editor of
[00:12:28] Radar, was here.
[00:12:32] And what about the security sector now? Can those who broke the law and put the service of one
[00:12:35] party be trusted now to act in accordance with the law?
[00:12:39] I am discussing this with Predrag Petrović from the Belgrade Centre for Security Policy.
[00:12:43] Good day, thank you, thank you for being here. In the past
[00:12:47] few days since the election results, the topic has been raised.
[00:12:50] Can we trust not only the judiciary, but first
[00:12:54] and foremost, uh,
[00:12:57] people from the security sector to suddenly start acting according to
[00:13:01] the law? Yes, well, we cannot trust these people who are currently in
[00:13:04] leading positions, that's for sure, because they
[00:13:08] came on a
[00:13:10] super-loyalist wave, where
[00:13:14] loyalists were replaced by people who were even
[00:13:18] more loyal than the previous ones. They proved
[00:13:21] their loyalty precisely by being willing to act according to
[00:13:25] political will, not in accordance with the law
[00:13:28] and rules of the profession. They did it in an
[00:13:32] open way, so everyone understood, even in front of
[00:13:35] cameras, they did not hide what they were doing,
[00:13:38] and Kričak is probably the
[00:13:41] most famous and best example of
[00:13:45] this, and his security
[00:13:49] unit. So we had those scenes where
[00:13:52] they applied excessive
[00:13:56] force towards students, we had the case
[00:13:59] of Nikolina Sinđelić in the
[00:14:03] garage of the Serbian government. So we have
[00:14:06] a whole series of such cases that indicate that
[00:14:09] these people definitely cannot
[00:14:12] remain in those positions and that we cannot trust
[00:14:16] them. Yes, but yesterday we had the case where
[00:14:19] Kričak was arrested based on a complaint
[00:14:22] from Veselin Milić, not for what you are all
[00:14:26] talking about. That's right, yes, there were several versions in the public
[00:14:29] that finally the prosecutor's office started
[00:14:32] doing its job,
[00:14:35] then that it's about
[00:14:39] building bridges to the new authorities
[00:14:43] by the Higher Public Prosecutor's Office
[00:14:46] in Belgrade, to the fact that it was actually Veselin Milić's
[00:14:50] revenge for what Kričak did, or rather what
[00:14:54] he tried to do by fabricating evidence to accuse
[00:14:57] him of, I believe, complicity
[00:14:59] in murder. So, but I think
[00:15:03] the truth is always somewhere in the middle, but what
[00:15:06] is certainly true, and history teaches
[00:15:10] us, is that old structures always try to
[00:15:13] build bridges to new authorities
[00:15:17] in order to preserve their positions
[00:15:20] or to facilitate their departure. That
[00:15:24] departure would be much easier, so that's the famous
[00:15:27] golden parachute, as they say,
[00:15:31] but what is important for us is to
[00:15:34] look at the consequences, so the consequences of this are
[00:15:37] that the ball started to unravel, that
[00:15:41] people who until yesterday were associates
[00:15:44] of super-loyalists are forced to arrest them because they simply
[00:15:48] saw that that game, that system of informal
[00:15:51] power, had started to fragment,
[00:15:55] that it started to tear apart, to break down.
[00:16:00] in that, but it is important, of course, to know that
[00:16:04] this is only the beginning, that we shouldn't
[00:16:07] relax. Yes, is this how you see this
[00:16:11] case of Alta Bank, from the reaction of the vice-governor
[00:16:15] to this news which has not yet been confirmed by state
[00:16:19] authorities, published by our colleagues from Nova, that Macura has been arrested?
[00:16:22] Absolutely yes, because Alta Bank has become a symbol
[00:16:26] of enormous acquisition
[00:16:29] of financial power in an unlawful way.
[00:16:33] It grew overnight into a business
[00:16:36] financial empire, which was
[00:16:39] market conditions, but only with various
[00:16:42] machinations, with massive backing from the political
[00:16:45] leadership, and when that political umbrella disappeared, everything started
[00:16:49] to collapse. Again,
[00:16:51] the previous government, the SNS government, was so
[00:16:55] comfortable that they simply didn't
[00:16:58] hide what they were doing in the last
[00:17:02] few years, how they were acting
[00:17:05] unlawfully, so... "they left behind
[00:17:09] a pile of evidence that, among others, your
[00:17:12] colleagues, investigative journalists from Bradar, KRIK,
[00:17:16] CIN recorded, so the prosecution
[00:17:19] truly has the opportunity to act solely based
[00:17:22] on those findings of investigative journalists,
[00:17:26] that now the police is what is seen
[00:17:30] in everyday
[00:17:33] life, and what about the Security Information Agency,
[00:17:37] which..." well, nothing is happening there, we don't hear
[00:17:40] of any changes there, nor that anyone has decided
[00:17:44] to work according to the law there. Yes, well,
[00:17:47] the Security Information Agency, if you look at its track record,
[00:17:51] if you look from the perspective, that is, of what is written in the law
[00:17:54] on BIA, it has indeed acted unprofessionally,
[00:17:58] unlawfully, they branded the vast majority
[00:18:02] of citizens as uh, as
[00:18:05] actors of a colored revolution, on the day
[00:18:08] it was in that promotional spot, they called students
[00:18:11] actors of destructiveness who are working on
[00:18:14] a colored revolution as
[00:18:17] the biggest uh,
[00:18:20] most complex security challenge for
[00:18:23] the agency. So imagine what kind of assessments this
[00:18:26] agency uh gives when it has
[00:18:30] completely missed the mark to
[00:18:32] that extent, even from this perspective,
[00:18:35] that is, the law on BIA, but even from
[00:18:38] the perspective of the political power of the SNS,
[00:18:42] so its task has clearly become the protection of that
[00:18:45] power, but even in that task they failed, meaning you have
[00:18:49] a failure of the agency in whatever way
[00:18:52] you look at it, either from the perspective of the SNS, or from
[00:18:55] the perspective of citizens,
[00:18:58] citizens of Serbia. So that track record actually tells us that even if
[00:19:02] that agency didn't exist, it wouldn't be a big loss, and
[00:19:06] that actually... its work so far has only
[00:19:09] caused more damage than good, so it's
[00:19:12] best that serious suspicions also arise that the Security
[00:19:16] Information Agency unlawfully
[00:19:18] wiretaps citizens, so yes, but that has become
[00:19:22] the modus operandi of the Security Information
[00:19:25] Agency. Secret surveillance of communication is one of
[00:19:30] for the purpose of protecting national security,
[00:19:33] constitutional order, not persecution of citizens. When you
[00:19:37] dismantle all control mechanisms and oversight, then
[00:19:41] you can do whatever you want, just as the government
[00:19:44] did in this case of Alta Bank and in other cases, it clearly
[00:19:48] acted that way, they felt extremely
[00:19:51] comfortable, and so did the Security Information Agency,
[00:19:55] and it was actually one of the important
[00:19:59] mainstays of the SNS government
[00:20:02] in preserving
[00:20:05] its power. and its power, but in
[00:20:09] protecting its very, very
[00:20:12] problematic affairs and its
[00:20:15] business empire, so
[00:20:18] I think the prevailing opinion is that
[00:20:21] that agency needs to be disbanded
[00:20:24] and started from scratch,
[00:20:28] uh, of course, when I say from scratch, that means we also have the Military Security Agency,
[00:20:32] and we shouldn't forget it, because it also sank into numerous
[00:20:35] abuses. Especially towards employees
[00:20:39] in the Ministry of Defense and the Serbian
[00:20:42] army, but also towards Serbian citizens and civilians. Do
[00:20:46] you think that was perhaps a mistake on October 5th, that these services were not
[00:20:50] disbanded, but creating, creating
[00:20:52] completely, yes, yes, that's right, but in that context, so we had
[00:20:56] two factors: that the incoming government
[00:20:59] built informal pacts with people
[00:21:03] and services to avoid bloodshed, that's one
[00:21:06] main factor, and the other factor is that directed crises
[00:21:10] immediately started after
[00:21:13] DOS came to
[00:21:17] power, where the services tried to show that
[00:21:20] without them there is no stability and security,
[00:21:24] and therefore when the new legal
[00:21:27] framework was adopted, within the Security Information
[00:21:30] Agency, the monopoly over secret
[00:21:33] surveillance of communications was preserved,
[00:21:36] the so-called monitoring center retained all police
[00:21:39] powers, including the right
[00:21:42] to detain and arrest. So it retained
[00:21:45] the core of its power from state
[00:21:49] security, that was never
[00:21:53] broken, which then
[00:21:56] made it very attractive to politicians
[00:21:59] and for abuses. Just to conclude, is there now a chance for the security
[00:22:03] sector to be built on some healthy foundations, to be reformed, to be
[00:22:07] built on some healthy foundations so that we don't
[00:22:10] periodically experience such things? Yes,
[00:22:13] there are people who left the
[00:22:17] security sector and people who were marginalized
[00:22:20] in that sector and who can really
[00:22:24] take over the leadership of that
[00:22:28] security apparatus. It is necessary
[00:22:31] for this to happen if we really want to do something
[00:22:34] in terms of reform, so it is necessary to do it immediately and appoint
[00:22:38] new leaders from top to
[00:22:41] bottom who would then be the engine of change, meaning people
[00:22:44] of integrity and expertise who would strictly
[00:22:48] ensure that the law is changed in such a way as to create an
[00:22:51] environment that would practically have a de facto
[00:22:55] vetting effect on those who came there to break the law and to
[00:22:58] use their badge as cover for their
[00:23:02] affairs, then of course to go further in the deep reform
[00:23:06] of human resources, structures, forming
[00:23:09] a prosecutorial police that would then work to break up those
[00:23:12] informal power structures that have completely permeated not
[00:23:16] only the security apparatus but all state institutions.
[00:23:20] Reform
[00:23:22] of the security and intelligence system as a whole, that is, not just
[00:23:26] one agency, but the entire system and
[00:23:30] dismantling their strongholds of power. Yes, we will see what happens in
[00:23:33] the coming period. Thank you very much for this conversation and this analysis. It was Predrag Petrović from
[00:23:37] the Belgrade Centre for Security
[00:23:38] Policy.
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[00:29:52] You are watching Njena Studio Live: The owner of Alta Bank, over whom bankruptcy
[00:29:55] was declared, has been arrested, Nova RS learns.
[00:29:59] Banking operations in this bank have been suspended. Clients
[00:30:03] told Novi Magazin that they had not been able to
[00:30:07] withdraw money since Saturday. This weekend it was said that payment would begin,
[00:30:10] payment of deposits would begin from 50
[00:30:13] to 50,000 euros, but the Efektiva association says that
[00:30:17] the bank will not be able to pay out any deposits.
[00:30:21] Nenad Nešić is following this story. Nenad, what is the latest
[00:30:24] information regarding the arrest of Davor Macura, as well
[00:30:28] as the events around Alta
[00:30:29] Bank?
[00:30:33] Well, Tanja, the Ministry of Internal Affairs has not yet officially announced anything regarding
[00:30:37] the arrest of Davor Macura, the owner of Alta Bank and
[00:30:40] a businessman close to the Serbian Progressive Party, so we are still
[00:30:43] referring to these media sources, primarily the Nova
[00:30:47] RS portal, that he was actually brought in last night,
[00:30:50] so that is the, let's say, latest information.
[00:30:54] Among that information is also another one, which concerns the reaction
[00:30:58] of the police from...