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20261102 200000 UTC
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[00:00:12] And what will be the relationship of the winners of these elections towards Kosovo
[00:00:15] on the Serbian list, I am talking with Jugoslav
[00:00:18] Gašić, a candidate on the student list, an assistant professor at
[00:00:21] the Faculty of Medicine in Kosovska Mitrovica. Good day, thank you
[00:00:24] for being here, uh, let's
[00:00:27] first perhaps look at these repeated elections. We heard
[00:00:31] from colleague Miloš Zekić
[00:00:33] Usame Zukolić enters the
[00:00:36] parliament, a large number of people in Aleksinac
[00:00:40] voted for him, one mandate
[00:00:43] which essentially changes nothing, but one less mandate
[00:00:47] for the student list, Usame Zukolić in parliament. Good day,
[00:00:50] thank you for the invitation. Well, I can't really tell you that I'm so
[00:00:54] familiar with that news, but here's what I managed to hear here
[00:00:58] while we were waiting for this connection.
[00:01:01] "In Serbia, anything is possible, it's incredible, so in
[00:01:04] Aleksinac, Usame Zukorlić, simply an incredible
[00:01:07] thing, you just have to smile at this moment about
[00:01:10] that, yes, that's your comment, well, I mean,
[00:01:14] incredible thing, who knows
[00:01:16] what kind of engineering existed there on election day, but
[00:01:20] we will find out, of course, I reserve judgment, I don't have all the information, so
[00:01:23] I can't comment in more detail,
[00:01:26] yes, now it's enough -
[00:01:30] questions related to uh how the student list
[00:01:33] will relate to what is happening in Kosovo, but how it will primarily
[00:01:37] relate to uh the Serbian list
[00:01:41] now that uh it is clear that the Serbian Progressive
[00:01:44] Party has been defeated and that uh the functioning of the state
[00:01:48] in the next period will be taken over by the student list on which you are
[00:01:51] also, uh what will be the relationship towards
[00:01:55] let's start with a broader question towards Kosovo
[00:01:58] well, the problem. We perceived Kosovo and incorporated
[00:02:02] it into our program, we presented that during this pre-election
[00:02:06] period, so we will absolutely not deviate from
[00:02:09] that by an inch, everything that we committed to
[00:02:13] in the program, we will
[00:02:15] land with plans to build implement, uh, not to mention, I think that is already
[00:02:18] clear to everyone, apropos of our program, of course
[00:02:21] this is a new political reality, the Serbian
[00:02:25] list is going through those phases, psychological
[00:02:28] phases... of accepting defeat, where
[00:02:32] in the first phase they were
[00:02:34] caught off guard, where they didn't, it took them six days to acknowledge
[00:02:38] what happened, the second phase for them is anger and frustration
[00:02:42] which they are now exhibiting, that phase will
[00:02:45] pass, they will enter the bargaining phase, the depression
[00:02:49] phase, and finally the acceptance of the election results,
[00:02:53] I am convinced that this will happen by the time we form
[00:02:56] an effective government and cabinet, at this moment... "probably
[00:03:00] in that phase of anger and frustration,
[00:03:04] they are prone to
[00:03:06] certain statements which
[00:03:09] essentially do not represent absolutely, what exactly are you referring to? Well,
[00:03:13] specifically something in the media space that has been
[00:03:16] circulating for the past few days in
[00:03:19] the media that are from Kosovo and Metohija,
[00:03:22] I think they need
[00:03:26] to recognize the new reality, that
[00:03:29] now uh..." "The Serbian list was
[00:03:33] directly linked to the Serbian Progressive Party, perhaps not
[00:03:36] necessarily to the party as such, but to what official
[00:03:40] Belgrade, uh, embodied in the policies of the Serbian
[00:03:44] Progressive Party, represented, what, what
[00:03:46] next? Well, the Serbian list was
[00:03:50] an outpost of the Serbian Progressive Party in Kosovo, the implementer of all
[00:03:53] works, they have stated that many times in the past period
[00:03:57] how they are linked to Belgrade." "they no longer
[00:04:01] have that Belgrade to rely on,
[00:04:04] so we stand by
[00:04:07] really not satisfied with the way the position that there is no, no political cooperation with
[00:04:09] the Serbian list, uh, they de facto have a certain
[00:04:13] institutional position, but that institutional position will
[00:04:17] not be a protection for
[00:04:19] potential law violations, endangering
[00:04:22] freedoms, uh, bringing
[00:04:25] the Serbian people in Kosovo and Metohija into such a situation,
[00:04:29] definitely..." "it will be, what
[00:04:32] their former supreme
[00:04:35] leader, and now just a defeated
[00:04:39] citizen would say,
[00:04:41] uh, they will be brought to the knowledge
[00:04:44] of the law, uh, they can absolutely
[00:04:48] continue, of course, to function in that
[00:04:50] system, uh, it's hard for me to
[00:04:54] believe that they will now be able to
[00:04:57] really do what they were elected to do,
[00:05:00] to be representatives of the Serbian people in that system, when
[00:05:04] they haven't done it until now, but
[00:05:07] all attention our focus will now be
[00:05:11] directed at them. "and let's believe that
[00:05:14] it will come to that, yes, when you say that, do you mean
[00:05:18] that they are mayors or that they are
[00:05:21] members of parliament in the Kosovo parliament? I mean both,
[00:05:25] so I mean both with the stipulation that uh
[00:05:28] the consequences
[00:05:31] of their actions can be far
[00:05:34] more tragic for those who are in the Kosovo parliament than
[00:05:38] those who are mayors, in what sense what do you think could happen? Well,
[00:05:41] legal..." regulations
[00:05:45] uh also should
[00:05:48] they worry, uh, those who work in
[00:05:52] how shall I say, in Kosovo but in the Serbian system, education,
[00:05:56] healthcare? Well, you see, in this period
[00:05:59] now we are listening to that cacophony in the media space
[00:06:03] that comes from that defeated citizen
[00:06:06] and who, in creating some kind of escape route for himself,
[00:06:10] his defeated body
[00:06:13] by giving some support and imitating some
[00:06:17] cohesiveness, they do this by
[00:06:20] that is absolutely
[00:06:23] unrealistic, uh, our
[00:06:26] goal, if nothing else, perhaps as
[00:06:29] a priority, is to do everything to
[00:06:33] stop that spiral of negative things that have been
[00:06:36] happening in Kosovo and Metohija, to prevent the departure of our people from that
[00:06:40] area, so everything will be directed
[00:06:43] in that sense to preserve people, no one
[00:06:46] should absolutely worry that they will be without any
[00:06:50] earnings or that they will be forced to leave,
[00:06:54] we will absolutely not stop that, in fact,
[00:06:57] we have a plan to strengthen it and to distribute
[00:07:01] it properly, not to function as the
[00:07:04] Serbian list functioned with favoritism in distributing
[00:07:07] certain social assistance in exchange for votes
[00:07:11] in those... uh election
[00:07:14] processes, but certainly those who have
[00:07:17] broken the law, they have reason to worry,
[00:07:21] and now you come from education, what
[00:07:25] that was also a topic in this
[00:07:28] campaign, but earlier, what will happen to the university,
[00:07:32] bearing in mind that uh the Pristina authorities at one
[00:07:35] point made it quite difficult, uh, or
[00:07:38] intended to make it difficult, uh
[00:07:41] communication between Central Serbia and Kosovo, what,
[00:07:45] what, what about that? Well, there are many
[00:07:48] problems in Kosovo, you know, the whole of Serbia is, if we
[00:07:51] look at it as a kind of backyard by regions, it is actually
[00:07:55] full of weeds, for these 14 years that weed
[00:07:58] has been watered, especially in Kosovo perhaps most intensively,
[00:08:02] all that needs to be resolved, unfortunately, in Kosovo we don't enter
[00:08:06] there free to solve it with both hands, but one hand
[00:08:09] is tied, what can already be seen. is that we have brought
[00:08:13] some freedom to the people, you see that smiles have returned
[00:08:17] to people's faces, that something is being celebrated that was not
[00:08:20] possible eight days ago, then it was dangerous
[00:08:23] to like anything, however, we have several
[00:08:27] priorities, perhaps that one is very
[00:08:30] important as a short-term goal to preserve our
[00:08:33] university, because we have a limited time when we expect a serious
[00:08:37] blow, those measures that the temporary government in
[00:08:41] Pristina. extended for one year expire on March
[00:08:44] 15th, we don't have much time, we must preserve the university,
[00:08:48] but not through some postponement of those measures, but through
[00:08:52] finding some systemic solution for the university
[00:08:56] to survive and function within our Serbian system, that
[00:08:59] includes talks with Pristina authorities, that
[00:09:03] includes talks with the international community,
[00:09:07] we expect the most cooperation from them, as you
[00:09:10] said, I am from education,
[00:09:14] uh, we perceived that problem during this period and we were
[00:09:19] information was being shared by the then authorities, in fact,
[00:09:23] and the current ones, let's say, they are still in those
[00:09:26] positions, about what was happening in that process, you know,
[00:09:29] we had some visits
[00:09:33] to faculties by the rector who said, wait for instructions from Belgrade,
[00:09:37] no instructions from Belgrade came, of course, during
[00:09:40] that period, uh...
[00:09:43] "and I, my colleagues gathered in informal groups,
[00:09:47] for example, Proaktiv is one of those groups, uh,
[00:09:50] held meetings with certain international
[00:09:53] actors in terms of presenting that
[00:09:56] problem, uh, sometime during the period when the Serbian list
[00:10:00] came out with an interesting statement that they, for example, had
[00:10:03] held 80 meetings with
[00:10:06] representatives of the international community in seven days, then we also had
[00:10:09] a meeting after that with some..." International
[00:10:13] community, when we told them about the problem of our
[00:10:16] university, which is actually most affected by
[00:10:20] that law on foreigners, they had absolutely no
[00:10:23] idea what was happening, so much for those
[00:10:27] contacts and their diplomatic missions, does that
[00:10:30] mean that you will demand that uh the dialogue that
[00:10:33] is being conducted under
[00:10:37] the auspices of the European Union be revived, would
[00:10:40] you be in that team, who would take that over now, well, I
[00:10:44] understand your journalistic curiosity and need for
[00:10:47] information, but I don't know how I could give you information that would
[00:10:51] satisfy you without exceeding my mandate, mhm. "I think
[00:10:55] it's too early to talk about that, it's been eight days
[00:10:59] since the elections, so we still don't know when we will
[00:11:02] constitute the assembly and form this government, what's
[00:11:05] important is that we are not losing time, that
[00:11:09] we are quite organized around all segments in
[00:11:13] groups, that we are working on expanding the groups,
[00:11:16] with experts from certain fields so that we can
[00:11:20] use this period of government transition in the best possible way
[00:11:24] so that literally..." with the beginning of our
[00:11:27] government, we already have defined goals that
[00:11:30] we can achieve very quickly, so
[00:11:34] in that process there are certain processes and
[00:11:37] strategies, but you will understand that I cannot tell you that now, even
[00:11:40] if I have information, I might potentially jeopardize
[00:11:43] something, now how
[00:11:46] that transition should look like, the transition
[00:11:50] of power in Kosovo in Serbian communities,
[00:11:53] the transition of power. "In Serbian communities,
[00:11:56] you must, we must look at it like this, meaning that there are only
[00:12:00] two systems left that function within the system
[00:12:03] of the Republic of Serbia, that is education and healthcare,
[00:12:07] the transition of power implies that we, in
[00:12:10] accordance with our program, bring competent and
[00:12:14] qualified people to leadership positions, so
[00:12:17] the transition of power implies the removal
[00:12:20] of politically appointed leadership in these
[00:12:23] institutions which have..." for the past period been guided
[00:12:26] exclusively by personal interests and predominantly used
[00:12:29] dominantno
[00:12:32] uh the popularization of the Serbian list or SNS
[00:12:35] very, very often incorrectly violating
[00:12:38] human freedoms, pressuring and blackmailing employees
[00:12:42] for voting, uh, they have no
[00:12:45] moral right anymore to be in those positions,
[00:12:48] it is absolutely necessary to remove that management and bring in
[00:12:52] professional management. Yes, do uh... "you expect that they
[00:12:56] will resign themselves or
[00:12:59] will they wait for the formation of a new government to be
[00:13:02] dismissed? Well, I would not go into what they
[00:13:06] think, you know, they, I think they are now preoccupied with some
[00:13:10] of their own survival, I am convinced that
[00:13:14] everyone is aware that in this period they have done many things
[00:13:17] that are not in accordance with the law
[00:13:19] and I think they were quite
[00:13:23] surprised by the change that happened in Serbia on
[00:13:26] October 25th, I believe they thought that for them
[00:13:30] October 26th would be an ordinary working day,
[00:13:34] a Monday when they would continue to do that. This that
[00:13:38] has now befallen them, they are not coping well with it yet,
[00:13:41] and I think it would be good if they resigned,
[00:13:45] not for us or for them, but for the interest
[00:13:48] of the Serbian people, because we don't have much time, specifically,
[00:13:52] if we talk about the law on foreigners, we... We don't have much
[00:13:55] time to lose now, to constitute the government and then to
[00:13:59] replace certain leaders so that we can
[00:14:02] direct policy in the direction we believe it should
[00:14:06] be, they would help themselves and us, but primarily
[00:14:09] the interest of the people, so just to conclude, you will not
[00:14:13] yet reveal all plans and tactics until the new
[00:14:16] parliament is constituted, but what you can convey,
[00:14:20] bearing in mind that uh the outgoing
[00:14:23] party uh and "the man who was once president
[00:14:27] is sending some signals, information that the state's competencies
[00:14:30] will be reduced in Kosovo, that means that will not happen,
[00:14:34] that absolutely will not happen, I mean, we emphasize that this is
[00:14:38] an absolute untruth and their propaganda that they are using in
[00:14:41] this period to create their exit strategy, do
[00:14:45] you think that your compatriots in Kosovo
[00:14:48] believe what they hear from them or do they
[00:14:52] believe this student list more?" Well,
[00:14:55] our compatriots have shown in the past period
[00:14:59] who they trust,
[00:15:02] if we look at it through the election results,
[00:15:06] but I believe that it was not, that it was not the free
[00:15:09] will of our people,
[00:15:12] so perhaps we are a new
[00:15:15] reality for them, but they will get
[00:15:19] to know us through our actions, we will work on mutual
[00:15:22] trust and they will trust us, you will see that. Already with these
[00:15:25] presidential elections, what is happening in Kosovo according to the election
[00:15:29] results, mhm, you won't tell us who the candidate is, do you already know who the candidate
[00:15:32] will be, I know, but I won't tell you, yes, well, thank you very much for
[00:15:36] this conversation, it was Jugoslav Gašić, candidate
[00:15:39] on uh on the student
[00:15:42] list,
[00:15:47] a businessman close to the Serbian Progressive Party, owner of Alta bank
[00:15:50] Davor Macura was detained last night, Nova
[00:15:54] RS learns. Previously, the police for more than 30 hours, since Saturday,
[00:15:58] conducted a search of the premises of that bank, which on Saturday morning
[00:16:01] the Executive Board of the National Bank of Serbia revoked its operating license and
[00:16:05] declared its bankruptcy. More
[00:16:08] about that, continuing with Milan Ćuliberg, editor of the Economy
[00:16:11] section of the weekly Radar, so here's
[00:16:14] just a brief comment on this news, we are still
[00:16:18] waiting for its confirmation, Radar and you
[00:16:21] have written on several occasions about how
[00:16:24] uh Macura went from a small trader
[00:16:28] to managing an entire
[00:16:31] financial empire,
[00:16:35] well, yes, and the consequence of that was a lawsuit. Mr.
[00:16:38] Macura claimed we had damaged his business reputation,
[00:16:41] right? Now we've seen that in
[00:16:45] that boasted it was the fastest growing in
[00:16:48] Serbia, uh, the point is that Mr.
[00:16:51] Macura's business success somehow
[00:16:54] overlaps with the coming to power of the Serbian Progressive
[00:16:57] Party sometime in 2012,
[00:17:00] especially in those 10 years when he really managed to
[00:17:04] build a business empire in a relatively short time,
[00:17:07] about 100 years, at least.
[00:17:10] Uh the point is that we
[00:17:14] and colleague Nataša Korlat and the rest of us from Radar
[00:17:17] wrote articles where based on
[00:17:21] official documents we found data that
[00:17:23] the state even subsidized him in all his business
[00:17:27] endeavors, many deals
[00:17:31] he concluded thanks to
[00:17:34] some privileges. Let's not forget that he
[00:17:38] bought IMT shortly before the law was about
[00:17:41] to change, which would enable
[00:17:45] the conversion of uh land of failed factories
[00:17:49] into urban building
[00:17:52] hundreds of thousands of square meters of residential buildings
[00:17:55] on that site, and when you multiply that by the average price
[00:17:59] of 3.5 or 4,000 euros, we come to the conclusion that these deals
[00:18:03] were planned in the value of some 600, 700 million e...
[00:18:07] euros, unfortunately, this is not the first
[00:18:11] time, we have already had the opportunity to see something similar, it
[00:18:15] happened after the defeat of the previous government in 2012,
[00:18:18] when the business empire of Mr.
[00:18:22] Bugićević, Farmakom, collapsed overnight with all its
[00:18:26] dependent companies, I just fear that this with Alta
[00:18:29] bank is just the beginning, uh, because
[00:18:33] within the Alta group there are other companies that were
[00:18:36] directly... connected to Altabanka and depended on it. Here's
[00:18:40] just one more question before we
[00:18:44] let you go, there's a lot of work for Radar
[00:18:48] these days, was it then expected that
[00:18:51] the first, let's say, financial victim of the change of government
[00:18:54] would be this group?
[00:18:57] Honestly, I'm not surprised, only by the speed with which it all
[00:19:01] happened. On the one hand, on the other hand, I'm
[00:19:04] surprised how the National Bank didn't react much faster.
[00:19:07] So, already after election night, although there were some
[00:19:11] signals that that bank started to empty, that some
[00:19:14] people withdrew money from
[00:19:18] their accounts even before the elections, before Sunday, just in case, as they
[00:19:21] say, to put it somewhere safe, especially those rumors intensified
[00:19:24] on Tuesday. We have
[00:19:27] a subsequent announcement from the Higher Public Prosecutor's Office that it already on Tuesday
[00:19:31] ordered the National Bank to investigate what
[00:19:34] was actually happening in that bank, and now the
[00:19:37] key question is who managed during those five days until the night
[00:19:41] between Friday and Saturday when the executive board of the national bank
[00:19:44] decided to revoke the operating license for Alta bank, who managed to
[00:19:48] withdraw that money, I cannot claim anything, but
[00:19:52] I dare to bet that it was done by
[00:19:55] privileged businessmen, very
[00:19:59] close to the top of the Serbian Progressive Party and the former
[00:20:02] state leadership until recently,
[00:20:05] unfortunately... "many public and state enterprises that
[00:20:08] were ordered by the authorities to
[00:20:12] deposit their money there were unable to withdraw
[00:20:16] it, so there were
[00:20:19] hundreds of millions of euros of state money from state
[00:20:22] enterprises and the question is what will become of it in the end
[00:20:26] when, because now everything depends on how the bankruptcy will end, let's
[00:20:29] not forget that the bankruptcy of those four failed
[00:20:33] banks that were closed back in 2002 is still
[00:20:36] not..." finished, so
[00:20:39] this could drag on, I only hope that the new government, when it is
[00:20:43] established, will manage to speed up that bankruptcy
[00:20:46] procedure so that creditors
[00:20:50] who uh have money
[00:20:52] there will be able to at least partially recover it, I don't believe there were
[00:20:56] many citizens who kept their money there because
[00:21:00] uh I don't see the motive for that, except that
[00:21:03] that bank offered slightly higher interest rates on savings than all others,
[00:21:07] but when someone offers you something more than everyone else,
[00:21:10] that is somewhere uh a signal for you to ask why
[00:21:14] that is being done, uh I believe that
[00:21:17] this all collapsed so quickly because... neither
[00:21:21] Mr. Macura nor the people with whom he closely cooperated and who
[00:21:24] enabled him to build that business empire, believed that
[00:21:28] on October 25th they would be able
[00:21:31] to behave as before for another four
[00:21:34] years, thank you very much for this first
[00:21:38] comment, it was our colleague Milan Ćuliberg, editor of
[00:21:41] Radar.
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[00:28:06] And what about the security sector now, can those who broke the law and
[00:28:10] put the service at the disposal of one party now be trusted to work in accordance
[00:28:14] with the law? I'm discussing this with Predrag Petrović from the Belgrade Centre
[00:28:18] for Security Policy. Good day, thank you, thank you for being
[00:28:21] here. Well, over the past few days since the election results
[00:28:25] until now, the question has been raised, can one trust
[00:28:28] not only the judiciary, but first
[00:28:31] and foremost, uh, people from the security sector
[00:28:35] to suddenly have to work according to the law? No, these people who are currently in
[00:28:39] leading positions cannot be trusted, that's
[00:28:42] for sure, because they came on
[00:28:45] a, uh, as they say, super loyalist
[00:28:49] wave, where loyalists were replaced by those
[00:28:52] people who were even more loyal than the
[00:28:55] predecessors. They proved their loyalty precisely by being willing
[00:28:59] to act according to political
[00:29:03] will, not in accordance with the law and rules of
[00:29:06] the profession. They did it in an open manner, so it was clear to
[00:29:10] everyone and in front of the cameras, they didn't
[00:29:13] hide what they were doing and Kričak is
[00:29:16] perhaps the most famous and best
[00:29:19] example of such a thing, and his security
[00:29:23] unit, so we had those scenes where, uh,
[00:29:27] they applied excessive
[00:29:30] uh, force towards students, we had that
[00:29:34] case of Nikolina Sinđelić in the
[00:29:37] government garage of Serbia, so there's a whole
[00:29:40] series of such cases that indicate that
[00:29:44] these people definitely cannot
[00:29:46] remain in those positions and that we cannot
[00:29:50] trust them, but yesterday we had the case
[00:29:53] that Kričak was arrested according
[00:29:57] to Veselin Milić's report, not for what you are now all
[00:30:00] talking about, that's right, in public there were several versions
[00:30:03] that finally the prosecution began to
[00:30:06] do its job,
[00:30:09] then that it was about, uh, first of all,
[00:30:13] about building bridges to the new authorities by
[00:30:17] the, uh, higher public
[00:30:19] prosecution in Belgrade, to the fact that it was actually
[00:30:23] uh, Veselin Milić's revenge for what
[00:30:26] Kričak did, or rather, what he tried to do by fabricating
[00:30:30] evidence to accuse him of what seems to be complicity
[00:30:34] in murder, uh, so, but I think the
[00:30:38] truth is always somewhere in the middle, but what is
[00:30:41] certainly true, and history teaches
[00:30:43] us, is that old structures always
[00:30:47] try to build bridges to
[00:30:50] new authorities in order to either
[00:30:53] preserve their positions, or to
[00:30:56] facilitate their departure, that departure would be, you know.