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20260915 213000 UTC
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[00:00:00] back to the June 17th, Islamabad
[00:00:03] of Mou, of I don't see that happening anytime
[00:00:08] of of soon. Right, thank you very much Dr. Mata for joining us
[00:00:10] of and being a part
[00:00:11] of the show. There's of course lot of concerns around what is happening in the
[00:00:15] middle
[00:00:15] of east
[00:00:15] and what will be the likely future scenario between Iran and
[00:00:19] United States,
[00:00:20] but also now with new front between the rebels in Saudi Arabia opening
[00:00:24] of up, it's important to see how exactly these two players are going to take the
[00:00:27] situation forward. It's also important to... take a look
[00:00:31] of at what this war has meant for these countries and especially in terms
[00:00:34] of the cost that they have to bear and of course look into the
[00:00:38] of kind of money that spent by the United States so far points towards of
[00:00:42] course huge numbers uh close to the tune of 33 billion dollars with
[00:00:46] about 22 billion dollars out of that spend on munitions alone and talk more
[00:00:49] about that we've been joined by
[00:00:51] of David Erosh who's from the the marshall institute thank you very much David for
[00:00:55] joining us and being a part
[00:00:56] of the show in your perspective when you're looking at and hearing
[00:01:00] reports about um ammunitions being out of
[00:01:03] stock, stock powers affected greatly, the defense
[00:01:07] sectory pointing towards more weapons production, how serious
[00:01:11] and significant is this concern within the United States and
[00:01:15] its defense forces as to the kind of money that has already been spent
[00:01:19] on munitions and
[00:01:20] in what that means in
[00:01:22] of terms of how the US is going to take the situation
[00:01:25] forward, yeah well let's start with the
[00:01:29] easy one, the mone is not an issue, that that seems like lot of money
[00:01:33] to you
[00:01:33] of and me, to normal people, to real people, but
[00:01:37] um, the department of defense is very, very, very big
[00:01:41] organization, and normal piece time spending is about $2 billion
[00:01:45] a day, so um,
[00:01:48] that's uh of interest, and the other thing is department of
[00:01:52] of defense equipment doesn't depreciate the way like if you buy
[00:01:55] a car and you keep it for five years that you try to sell it, that car is worth.
[00:02:00] fraction of
[00:02:00] a what it was, but um, we carry the value of aircraft for
[00:02:04] example, all the way through the end
[00:02:06] of their life cycle,
[00:02:07] a so there was a10 airplane uh
[00:02:11] that was
[00:02:13] of damaged at salty airbase in Jordan, um, that's
[00:02:16] reported as the purchase price
[00:02:18] of the airplane, but the airplane is almost 40 years old and nobody's going
[00:02:22] to replace it, the air force wants to
[00:02:24] a retire it, so so the money is not an issue, bigger issue is production
[00:02:28] and capacity, this has been a... problem really since
[00:02:30] 2017, and the origins go back to
[00:02:34] the end
[00:02:35] of the cold war, when the United States and other
[00:02:38] of countries uh
[00:02:39] in paradoxically took a peace dividend, decided to stop stock piling weapons because they
[00:02:43] thought there would never be another major conflict, and
[00:02:47] basically went to just in time
[00:02:49] supply, allowed their production base to
[00:02:53] atrophy. we kind of got a foreshadowing of this with the Ukraine war
[00:02:57] where we realized that we weren't producing art. shells fast
[00:03:01] enough, and that
[00:03:02] a the Ukrainians and the Russians were both firing
[00:03:04] in a week, the equivalent of year's worth of supply for the United States, the
[00:03:08] of European countries were absolutely shocked, they couldn't um
[00:03:12] keep up
[00:03:13] at all, and what we're seeing now is illustration in the
[00:03:17] US,
[00:03:18] of it's
[00:03:18] it's serious, but it's not a
[00:03:21] of of showomper, we have reserves and these projections
[00:03:24] are all made up of publicly available
[00:03:27] in figures based on public contracts there to let there's a possibility of
[00:03:30] additional contracts, there's also substitution
[00:03:34] from um us allies that have produced things under
[00:03:38] license, so for example the south koreans produce
[00:03:40] a knockoff
[00:03:43] of of of the patriot that is compatible with patriot, and the UAE has fielded that for
[00:03:48] of of example, but basically we're having to shift and draw down from other
[00:03:52] contingencies and what that means is that if there's
[00:03:55] simultaneously a war someplace else
[00:03:58] of we'd be stretched.
[00:04:00] of Right, David, for context, um, has uh the US
[00:04:04] historically seen such inventory
[00:04:06] shortfalls? Well, we haven't been as reliant
[00:04:10] on precision guided munitions the way um, we have
[00:04:13] here,
[00:04:14] but you know, if you look for example at the start of World
[00:04:17] War II, the United States army was
[00:04:19] of smaller than Portugal, smaller than Yugoslavia, and uh, we
[00:04:23] had stock piles that matched it, we we didn't really have effective
[00:04:26] tank, uh, we were short aircraft, um, "and we we
[00:04:30] wound up building all these things out in in very short
[00:04:34] order, but that's a much, that's with much broader industrial base
[00:04:38] of with a uh uh base of trained machinists and stuff that
[00:04:42] doesn't really exist in the United States because lot of our commercial production has been
[00:04:46] outsourced to other countries and our
[00:04:48] of defense production has been allowed to
[00:04:50] a lag,
[00:04:51] of so um uh again
[00:04:54] of it's it uh, I think what makes us of concern is that we
[00:04:58] are so reliant on the..." precision munitions,
[00:05:02] of but um, the period of risk will only last about three years, I
[00:05:06] think, and there's another, there's another factor I should have mentioned at the start, which
[00:05:10] is people look at say the use of tomahaw. missiles and they say, well they used all these
[00:05:13] tomahawk missiles here so we can't go forward in war,
[00:05:17] but you you use lot these munitions at the start of a
[00:05:21] campaign, and then as you're able to substitute, you
[00:05:25] you suppress enemy air defense, you're able to drop bombs instead of firing missiles your need
[00:05:29] for those missiles sort of tapers off, so so there's a
[00:05:33] significant element of risk, we haven't been as dependent on missiles
[00:05:36] any other time as we are now, but we we have had shortages
[00:05:40] with certain calibers missiles in the... fast, it's it's just our mindset has
[00:05:44] been wrong for the last 50 years, right? it may
[00:05:48] not be huge in numbers, like you've pointed out, but it is a cost nonetheless
[00:05:52] and so given the current amount that has already been spent on
[00:05:56] munitions in the Iran war, is the US willing to keep on
[00:06:00] spending such amounts in this war um and
[00:06:03] continue with the kind of expense that is going to be
[00:06:07] built on whether they're producing weapons at home or taking in from other
[00:06:10] countries. President Trump did not make the political
[00:06:14] case for this war with the American people before going there,
[00:06:17] so um the bigger issue is the loss of U.S. service
[00:06:21] members, we we've lost 18, um,
[00:06:24] you know, if if you were to look it in the macro sense, that's about as many people
[00:06:28] as the department of defense would lose to traffic accidents, but we don't
[00:06:32] look these things a macro sense, people um are saying you didn't
[00:06:36] make the case for this war, so the war is viewed as uh not a
[00:06:40] war of not a war of, it's viewed as a of choice
[00:06:43] uh and so the human costs uh if we
[00:06:47] were to lose say a ship which is major
[00:06:51] investment for us, people would say, well wait a minute, why
[00:06:54] are we here? so that's that's a poor
[00:06:57] preparation uh on president trump's part,
[00:07:00] and you think he thought that this would go much more quickly than it
[00:07:04] did, the money is issue, but honestly the way the
[00:07:08] US government works, we say do you buy guns or butter,
[00:07:12] but never really clear uh tradeoff, we wind up buying guns
[00:07:15] and butter, the only question is how much of each uh, and the tradeoffs are
[00:07:19] not explicit. is the sentiment within the
[00:07:23] defense forces um also the same as you're
[00:07:27] representing and especially given the defense secretary
[00:07:30] stuns, what is the way that the defense forces themselves feel
[00:07:34] about the current status? uh, I
[00:07:37] can't speak for contemporary moods within
[00:07:41] our... forces, but uh uh, in general
[00:07:45] soldiers always complain, pretty much no matter where they
[00:07:48] are, and the issue here of course is that they're a
[00:07:52] very auster environment, locked down, subject to
[00:07:56] periodic attacks, um, and there's not a lot of you
[00:08:00] know fixed infrastructure, there's not um, you
[00:08:04] even when I was like deployed to Bosnia, which was considered to be a combat
[00:08:07] tour, but we had
[00:08:11] uh monthly... trips for relaxation, we had resorts close
[00:08:15] by and the terrain was pretty nice, actually pretty
[00:08:18] beautiful here, these guys are out the
[00:08:20] in the middle desert, nothing to go, so and of course you if you're a ship,
[00:08:24] my goodness, mean particularly an aircraft carrier, well you you can't just get up and
[00:08:28] walk up on the the deck, the deck is very dangerous,
[00:08:32] so um some these guys you know may not get lot of direct sunlight
[00:08:36] for six months, so i'm sure morale is flagging
[00:08:40] and uh what makes that worse is the fact that you don't
[00:08:44] know how long it will how long this will go,
[00:08:47] so um, I would, I would be surprised if Moral is as high
[00:08:51] as it was, say in some other uh
[00:08:54] incidents, but soldiers always complain, and given
[00:08:58] the democratically drawn nature the US Armed
[00:09:01] forces, uh, I would be shocked if uh,
[00:09:05] if uh, if we didn't get complaints, I would be concerned if they weren't
[00:09:08] complaints, right, and what about the...
[00:09:13] reports coming in of retirements within the armed force, especially
[00:09:16] related to the defense secretary, so those
[00:09:20] are at the senior level, so here we're talking about senior
[00:09:24] generals, um, the secretary is very
[00:09:27] controversial figure, I don't care for him particularly,
[00:09:31] um, and he does not show any deference to uh,
[00:09:35] rank or experience, he tends to have the view that he is a combat
[00:09:39] soldier, which he was, um, uh,
[00:09:42] Iraq and that uh the generals don't know what's going on,
[00:09:46] that he knows what's going on better. There's also an element of
[00:09:50] suspicion the we have a theory
[00:09:54] that the people who are career civil servants
[00:09:57] and
[00:09:58] the diplomats, and by extension some senior officers uh are
[00:10:02] inherently democratic. This comes out the first impeachment of President
[00:10:05] Trump where one the key figures was an army lieutenant
[00:10:09] colonel. So he doesn't show them any deference.
[00:10:12] and he apparently views some these officers as having made
[00:10:16] unacceptable compromises of military values in order
[00:10:20] to swage the biden administration or the Obama administration uh
[00:10:24] that's very controversial, we're losing lot of
[00:10:27] leadership, um, and uh, you know, I
[00:10:31] don't know anybody, none of my peers who are defense
[00:10:35] professionals and I mean, I'm a retired colnel, and I served in
[00:10:39] the army for 30 years, none of my peers like the guy or
[00:10:43] have much, I think that he's on the right track, but
[00:10:47] we are democraticly responsive armed forces
[00:10:50] and the president gets to choose the generals he
[00:10:54] likes. we've had controversial reliefs in the past like when um
[00:10:58] president showman fired general McArthur uh who was the
[00:11:01] most famous one the most famous soldiers of his day and president
[00:11:05] shruman fired him so uh this is this
[00:11:09] is a bit of a concern but uh it's more is
[00:11:13] being made of it the bench of experienced
[00:11:16] generals is deep only about 2% of uh
[00:11:20] colonels become generals and only about uh half of
[00:11:24] one star generals become two-star generals and it gets narrower and narrower, when you get
[00:11:28] to the three-st level, all of those positions can be characterized as
[00:11:32] political, so I wouldn't read too much into
[00:11:35] it. Right, and David, there's these
[00:11:38] developments of course, and adding to it, the kind of fatigue that the
[00:11:42] reports are coming in for the troops that of course are also
[00:11:46] deployed as part the maritime block, it raisess concerns as to how
[00:11:49] far of course that is being affected too, what is the US
[00:11:53] response in terms? how long it is willing to hold that
[00:11:57] blockaid or um of course uh keep on
[00:12:01] um rounding the soldiers um for for rest and then of
[00:12:05] course we're getting more on board is that a strategy that the US
[00:12:09] is still willing to continue despite these developments yeah
[00:12:12] so I should have said this earlier as well I
[00:12:16] apologize for um I don't think President Trump has a strategy a
[00:12:20] strategy is a long-term plan to do this I think he's he's doing
[00:12:23] tactics he's mod tactics to this, so the limiting factor on the
[00:12:27] blockade is basically aircraft carriers, and going back to
[00:12:31] my early remarks about generations of disinvestment
[00:12:35] in the defense base after the end the cold war, we
[00:12:39] just don't have enough carriers, and the fact that this happened
[00:12:43] right after the Venezuela operation, which had number of carriers
[00:12:47] on duty there, it means that carriers that normally the navy likes to divide
[00:12:51] the carrier year into three cycles, you have a import, you have
[00:12:55] training at sea and then you have deployment and what we're seeing is
[00:12:58] basically import and deployment
[00:13:02] because the lack of capacity
[00:13:06] there, so it's an issue with carriers, the Abraham lincoln was at sea, i
[00:13:09] think longer than any us surface ship since World War
[00:13:13] II, longer at sea without a port
[00:13:15] call, um, the
[00:13:19] uh, it's it's a problem, but again, you have
[00:13:23] had issues, exceptional issues. there was one uh national guard so
[00:13:27] reserve battalion that or brigade rather that had
[00:13:31] to spend almost two years in combat in Afghanistan
[00:13:34] because
[00:13:35] uh of shortfalls at the time in 2007 to enable the surge in
[00:13:39] Iraq um but here it's a
[00:13:42] bigger issue and lot of it speaks to uh mismanagement the
[00:13:46] navy but in short the blockade can be run uh almost
[00:13:50] indefinitely um usually what that means is that we
[00:13:54] would lose the capacity have naval strike uh onto
[00:13:58] Iran's land, but surface combatants and perhaps
[00:14:02] smaller um smaller carriers that are not uh
[00:14:06] capable of complete horizontal takeoff, so ships like the USS
[00:14:10] Boxer which uh need the vertical variant the joint strike
[00:14:14] fighter could uh execute the naval blockade
[00:14:18] rule, what you would lose would be the sea base
[00:14:20] strike. Right, thanks so much David for joining us.
[00:14:25] being a part the news room today, there's a lot of development still taking place, of course
[00:14:29] continue to affect the parties involved in the war, but also others who
[00:14:32] experienceing the impact of this war as well as the economic
[00:14:36] impact that has been created now, not just from this radio from news, but also from
[00:14:40] babo Mandap. we're now going to take a look at another aspect that's very important,
[00:14:43] that's the ongoing genocide in Gaza and of course what's going on in the west
[00:14:47] bank, but the way that different countries have responded to that is
[00:14:50] important with the new UK prime minister um it was...
[00:14:55] um mixed uh expectation whether or not there is going to be
[00:14:59] tough first chance that the UK is going to take and um there's has
[00:15:03] been of course uh an all out support that has been stated by
[00:15:07] the prime minister also some sort of boycots that have been put in place but what
[00:15:11] does it essentially mean in terms the UK's actions
[00:15:15] we're going to take closer look at that with christoph blo's professor of international
[00:15:19] relations and security at the university of Bradford thank you very much christif for
[00:15:22] joining us today in your opinion what's you're hearing from the UK prime
[00:15:26] minister how starkly different do you think it
[00:15:29] is uh from of course what Starma talked about
[00:15:33] earlier but also historically for UK to be
[00:15:37] giving such a statement for what's going on outside the
[00:15:41] country, especially with the kind of calls for more
[00:15:45] support for Gaza that came in from the people the
[00:15:48] UK.
[00:15:51] the position the United Kingdom has been that it has been a
[00:15:55] supporter and ally of Israel generally speaking, it has a
[00:15:59] military agreement with Israel and it has
[00:16:03] intelligence sharing with Israel and it supported Israel
[00:16:07] in the wake the 7th of October
[00:16:10] events, but of course since then has been become very,
[00:16:14] very cautious and to some extent has
[00:16:18] condemned Israel with regard to the actions in Gaza and the
[00:16:21] occupied territories, and of course the very high
[00:16:25] civilian death toll in Gaza and some the military
[00:16:29] actions by Israel in in in the Gaza area
[00:16:32] and also now the settler violence in the occupied
[00:16:36] territories has brought about condemnation from United
[00:16:40] Kingdom, so we see first of all that arms export
[00:16:43] licenses were suspended, so some
[00:16:47] some action against Israel in this way, and at the same
[00:16:51] time, they did not want to use the word
[00:16:55] genocide, and they're still not talking about genocide pers as a legal
[00:16:58] principle, partly because they don't want to take the responsibility
[00:17:02] of making this judgment and incur the responsibilities that would
[00:17:06] follow from this. such as having to prosecute individual people
[00:17:10] and taking actions, the united nations also said that, so how is it
[00:17:14] about taking
[00:17:14] responsibility?
[00:17:19] they they're trying to to to to manage
[00:17:22] different trends, think in different tensions
[00:17:26] in their policy, so while they they are not completely
[00:17:30] breaking with Israel, they're clearly criticizing Israel's actions in
[00:17:34] gaza, have called for seasfire quite earlier.
[00:17:38] have even recognized the palestine state
[00:17:41] in 2025, so that's a major step for
[00:17:44] Britain to take, and now of course the sanctions
[00:17:48] which under burnam have been taken against the occupied
[00:17:51] territories, so banning any goods or any to be
[00:17:55] either exported or exported to the occupied
[00:17:59] territories is quite a major step, and it's a signal which
[00:18:02] says that what Israel is doing in the occupied territories is
[00:18:05] illegal. how does the public in UK
[00:18:09] feel about this response and the UK still hesitant
[00:18:13] to call it a genocide? yes, there is kind of
[00:18:17] a spectrum of of opinion on this. mean, the furthest the government has
[00:18:21] gone is that individual ministers have talked about potential war
[00:18:25] crimes that have been committed by Israeli forces or
[00:18:29] Israeli persons in in in in these conflicts
[00:18:33] and they've obviously caused called for cease fire really early
[00:18:37] on. and condemned various military actions by Israel,
[00:18:41] in the United Kingdom, the there is some division there
[00:18:44] is concern about the anti-semitism
[00:18:47] and threats to the Jewish community in the UK. on the
[00:18:51] other hand, especially in the labor party itself, and so
[00:18:54] towards the left the spectrum, the pro Palestinian
[00:18:58] sentiment is very very strong, and especially the the idea
[00:19:02] that there are war crimes taking place and that it could be amounting
[00:19:06] to genocide. Right, um, Chris,
[00:19:10] when we see the situation, of course, especially in the way
[00:19:13] that Israel's relationship with the United States has also been
[00:19:17] affected um, as part the duration
[00:19:21] the conflict with Iran, how do you think that
[00:19:25] the relationship that the UK has with Israel changed in
[00:19:29] whatever form, despite of course whatever steps has been taken by the current
[00:19:32] government, what is the current stance the
[00:19:36] relationship that you has with Israel at the moment,
[00:19:39] because while of course these statements are being made, there are
[00:19:43] other engagements and trade relationships that have still not been
[00:19:46] cancelled. yes, so the netan government
[00:19:50] is very angry about the United Kingdom stances especially,
[00:19:54] and the idea of these sanctions against the occupied
[00:19:58] territories, a general view towards Gaza, I think is seen as
[00:20:02] very critical in Israel, but yes, the relationship remains to some
[00:20:05] extent, and the United Kingdom... also has to manage its relationship with
[00:20:09] the United States, as you say, for different reasons, the Trump
[00:20:13] administration also has some issues with Israel, and
[00:20:16] so this is quite a difficult balance to manage, so
[00:20:20] Burnham has to look both towards his own constituency, which is fairly
[00:20:24] pro Palestinian as well as
[00:20:28] being careful about not being accused of antizionism, so it's a
[00:20:31] difficult political path for him to tread, so they want to go as strongly as
[00:20:35] possible, but he's been quite clear, he said he doesn't feel entitled to make the
[00:20:39] judgment that is genocide, so he thinks there has to be some kind of
[00:20:43] formal judgment elsewhere that's made
[00:20:45] that, but there is talk about war crimes being
[00:20:49] committed. by Israel for sure in the members the current UK
[00:20:53] government. right, thanks so much Christop for
[00:20:57] joining us and being a part the show today, speaking just about is the current stance that the
[00:21:01] UK is taking about the genocide in Gaza, and while it has taken
[00:21:04] certain measures and talked about support for Gaza, it has
[00:21:08] fallen short of calling it a genocide, and that of course still
[00:21:12] remains concerns for the people the UK. that's all that we have from
[00:21:16] the news room today, we'll now see you tomorrow.
[00:21:50] February 2026 parliamentary elections after major political
[00:21:53] reset Bangladesh heads to the poles once again where the new generation
[00:21:57] decides the next chapter of
[00:21:59] Bangladesh.
[00:22:10] Pakistan TV team is here at the Beijing Capital International
[00:22:13] Airport.
[00:22:20] Pakistan tv is right now reporting live from the great hall the people
[00:22:24] here in China's capital
[00:22:25] Beijing.
[00:22:33] Pakistani delegation led by prime minister Shahar Shariff
[00:22:36] and chief of defense force field marshall Assim Munir have
[00:22:40] now departed from the great hall the
[00:22:42] people.
[00:22:50] very significant mous will be signed in this
[00:22:54] important
[00:22:54] meeting,
[00:23:10] we are at the jinna
[00:23:18] talks comment today, prime held a key meeting with
[00:23:22] us vice president JDV in
[00:23:24] Islamabad
[00:23:36] you about about the Pakistani role
[00:23:38] especially
[00:23:41] very good Pakistan leadership
[00:23:44] and I have no
[00:23:48] second thought about the fact that. for the man of
[00:23:51] peace, it was Pakistan who made sure that the 47 year
[00:23:55] old conflict
[00:23:56] ends,
[00:24:05] the way he praised the role of Prime Minister Shahbaz
[00:24:08] Sharif, field marshall Assim Munir, it made headlines
[00:24:12] in Pakistan,
[00:24:32] here at Gina Convention Center Islamabad. Pakistan's water
[00:24:35] strategy is clear. When river crosses borders, cooperation
[00:24:39] becomes just as important as the water
[00:24:41] itself.
[00:26:32] in
[00:26:33] airport
[00:26:39] where the new generation decides the next chapter of
[00:26:42] Bangladesh.
[00:26:54] A second thought about the fact that is the man of
[00:26:57] peace.
[00:27:02] tell you about about the Pakistani
[00:30:20] Hello and welcome to pakistan tv with the news of this hour, I'm Zaina Bukhari, let's have
[00:30:24] look at the
[00:30:24] headlines.
[00:30:45] Pakistan strongly condemy attacks against Saudi Arabian RefMs
[00:30:49] Islamabads and waving support for the kingdoms of granity, territorial
[00:30:52] integrity and
[00:30:53] security.