PAKISTANTV — broadcast
20260920 053000 UTC
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[00:00:00] three fronts, we know for fact the Gaza situation
[00:00:03] remains unresolved, there is transigence on the part of Israel
[00:00:07] towards Lebanon also, are these separate or are
[00:00:11] these the parts of an wider interconnected regional
[00:00:15] war? thank you very much for having me and for the
[00:00:19] question, well
[00:00:20] it is of course all very very deeply interconnected and
[00:00:24] the recent events in Saudi Arabia are highly
[00:00:27] unfortunate, the targeting of this
[00:00:30] 1200 kilometers east west pipeline and the closure
[00:00:34] of the babal mandap now which is going to cost world
[00:00:38] economy as well as Pakistan economy very very heavily so
[00:00:42] this is not a very good news for the world now
[00:00:45] why this is happening because it all started from
[00:00:49] Gaza that we all know and the war is mutating
[00:00:53] you see it starts from Gaza 7th
[00:00:55] October and then it goes on and it involves
[00:01:00] Iran, then it involves Lebanon, then it
[00:01:02] involves other gulf nations,
[00:01:06] so it started as Gaza,
[00:01:09] a Israel problem, then it
[00:01:11] of turned into Iran, Israel war,
[00:01:15] in 12th June
[00:01:17] of of 25, and then it turns into US Iran war, then it turns into
[00:01:21] another situation,
[00:01:23] arab,
[00:01:27] arab nations enter the conflict. in their own
[00:01:31] ways because
[00:01:33] of the presence
[00:01:34] of the US forces in their
[00:01:37] of countries, so this is very very
[00:01:41] complicated and with every passing day
[00:01:43] it is getting more and more complicated, there's no doubt about it that
[00:01:47] everything is connected. i would even go to the extent of
[00:01:50] saying that the
[00:01:53] ukraine conflict is also connected, you remember two
[00:01:57] months
[00:01:58] in ago ukraine fire. a drone
[00:02:01] of at an Iranian vessel in in
[00:02:04] the caspian sea,
[00:02:10] a of so the greater fear is that what if these two war theaters,
[00:02:14] one in eastern Europe and one in the middle east, they get
[00:02:17] connected and there is a greater likelihood because
[00:02:21] of of turkish involvement in
[00:02:25] Syria and it was just last
[00:02:28] month when we were hearing
[00:02:31] news about Turkey and Israeli
[00:02:34] escalations, so fortunately did not
[00:02:38] really escalate to point
[00:02:41] of of no return where i want your understanding
[00:02:44] regarding as to the midterm elections pretty much around the
[00:02:48] corner, we have seen the latest poll by Fox
[00:02:50] of News, the talks of 71% believing there is no clear exit
[00:02:54] strategy with Trump administration from this
[00:02:58] of conflict, could you give us an understanding? what's at stake
[00:03:01] here at the moment for the Trump administration and what
[00:03:05] what are the ultimate objectives
[00:03:08] we we know for fact those objectives which were set at
[00:03:12] the very outset of this invasion against Iran were never
[00:03:15] achieved so what are the objectives right now rather things have
[00:03:19] expanded in multiple different dimensions right now
[00:03:23] the objective is to look good and to find a way
[00:03:26] of finding an exit from this
[00:03:30] conflict in the middle east and leave without
[00:03:33] any further damage to
[00:03:37] in the reputation of of Trump
[00:03:40] administration as well as the US
[00:03:42] economy, the diesel is not available in
[00:03:46] 10 states in the United States, which is not a
[00:03:50] very good thing, so if it prevails
[00:03:53] further, the
[00:03:55] of upcoming elections are lost elections for Trump's party
[00:03:59] already. "as you are giving us data that
[00:04:02] 74% people, Americans are are
[00:04:06] already not in favor
[00:04:07] of the war, they think that
[00:04:09] it it was the wrong war from the start and the war has gone wrong, it
[00:04:12] was total miscalculation, you
[00:04:15] in listen to any American independent defense analys and they say it's
[00:04:19] a lost war, so it is a stigma for the Trump
[00:04:23] administration, and I and I think it will
[00:04:26] be really, really difficult for them to.
[00:04:30] find a decent outcome
[00:04:33] of the elections that
[00:04:35] are that are due in November. I'll come to this particular aspect. Dr.
[00:04:39] Hasan zaffar, there is another aspect that I want your understanding about. I'll come back to you. Let
[00:04:43] me once again proceed to words Miku. Miku, now there
[00:04:46] is
[00:04:47] a report by the
[00:04:48] of UN fact finding mission
[00:04:49] of that says there are reasonable grounds that
[00:04:53] the US committed war crimes as far as that particular the
[00:04:57] first attack
[00:04:58] of on the primary school in which are 100. 50 people lost their
[00:05:01] lives, white house has rejected
[00:05:05] this report saying Americans don't target civilians,
[00:05:08] could you give us an understanding, what does that?
[00:05:12] speak about when the UN fact finding mission says there are reasonable
[00:05:16] grounds that the US committed war crimes and if
[00:05:19] that happens to be the case, are there any chances of an
[00:05:23] accountability on that front? well,
[00:05:27] the United Nation, the United
[00:05:29] States um, they will never
[00:05:33] admit that they target civilians and we
[00:05:37] know not only from the the war in Iran now,
[00:05:41] but but also previous..." uh previous wars that that
[00:05:44] civilians were target and uh with the excuse
[00:05:48] that we are targeting only terrorists or dictators
[00:05:52] uh innocent people were caught in the middle and to be
[00:05:56] straight forward no there will not be any
[00:05:59] any
[00:06:03] person coming and asking the united states to stand even
[00:06:07] trial or
[00:06:09] you know even to apologize because this never have
[00:06:13] before and I am not that positive that it will be the
[00:06:17] case in the
[00:06:18] in the future. Okay,
[00:06:21] so just give, could you give us an
[00:06:24] understanding regarding, there was an internal
[00:06:28] investigation the part of pentagon going
[00:06:31] on on this particular incident, that hasn't been
[00:06:34] released completely, and if white house rejects this
[00:06:38] report by the UN fact finding mission, don't you think they should sup
[00:06:42] quote that particular assertion, if there
[00:06:46] is nothing of that sort in that internal investigation the pentagon
[00:06:50] related to this matter, well first and first we need to
[00:06:54] see the whole investigation from the from the pentagon,
[00:06:57] also myself knowing how the
[00:07:00] pentagon does the
[00:07:03] investigations, some things they tend
[00:07:06] to let out for obvious
[00:07:09] reasons, so
[00:07:12] "unless the UN really, really pushes
[00:07:15] and wants the United States to be
[00:07:19] held accountable, at least now, if in the past was not
[00:07:23] the case, then I am very positive that
[00:07:27] there will be no consequences, they there have never been, and I don't
[00:07:31] see now to be the the time when things will change
[00:07:35] because we we've seen how many times the the pressure
[00:07:39] has failed simply because
[00:07:41] the the US" is military strong and because they
[00:07:45] have all sorts of um laws
[00:07:49] that even give the the the US military the
[00:07:53] right to bomb for example the
[00:07:56] hague, so if this is the case, I can imagine that they can
[00:08:00] come up with something to get rid the
[00:08:03] United Nations as as well, and we know that Trump
[00:08:07] wanted, and he still pursues this idea to
[00:08:11] defund. the United Nations on all sorts of
[00:08:15] grounds and allegations. Right, I get your
[00:08:18] point, Isabel, Middle East and North
[00:08:22] Africa relations expert. Thank you very much for being with us on unfold tonight,
[00:08:26] really appreciate that. Coming back to you, Dr. Dr. Hasan, I want
[00:08:30] your quicker understanding regarding this UN fact finding
[00:08:34] mission report, are there any chances of an accountability, and
[00:08:38] also the main question that I want your your understanding about
[00:08:41] is the how do you see
[00:08:45] China's role in this entire equation? we know for fact few days
[00:08:48] back Iranian foreign minister and Chinese foreign minister had
[00:08:52] a meeting and the Chinese are
[00:08:56] urging to deescalate the situation going back to the
[00:09:00] Islamabad memorandum of understanding also what I
[00:09:03] understand is that they put clearly their weight
[00:09:07] behind Iran's right of sovereignty,
[00:09:10] dignity, security. as well as the legitimate
[00:09:13] interests, so this last part, how do you assess
[00:09:16] that? what does that mean? this is very very
[00:09:20] important because president has lot of
[00:09:24] weight to put in this situation, and i think
[00:09:28] China is perhaps the
[00:09:31] only power on the
[00:09:35] globe that can really play a positive role,
[00:09:38] decisive role in this whole situation and
[00:09:45] the there is going to be meeting between president and president
[00:09:48] Trump on the 24th and i think
[00:09:52] this matter will be discussed there
[00:09:54] and China certainly can play a very
[00:09:58] important role and the visit of Abbas iraki to
[00:10:02] China and his meeting with Chinese foreign minister
[00:10:06] Wongi these matter must have been discussed and
[00:10:10] the revival the mous. bad mo must have been
[00:10:13] discussed and which also indicates
[00:10:17] a good sign for Pakistan that China was all the way
[00:10:21] on board when Pakistan was playing the negotiator. between
[00:10:25] the two parties which leading which led
[00:10:29] to the Islamabad mou, so
[00:10:32] China being on board is a good good
[00:10:36] thing for Pakistan that our relationship with China
[00:10:40] remain a stead fast and strong in this
[00:10:43] particular situation, so China is definitely a very good
[00:10:47] choice and if they have offered it themselves, I would like
[00:10:50] to think a very positive outcome of
[00:10:53] this. when they say that this they
[00:10:57] support or safeguard Iran's right to sovereignty, the
[00:11:00] legitimate interests, so what sort of message do you
[00:11:04] think must have been received in Washington regarding or is it the
[00:11:08] first time that we are seeing such a support coming from China so
[00:11:12] openly for Iran or there were earlier
[00:11:16] instances in that regard also? This is Chinese
[00:11:19] philosophy and they have put it across very clearly on
[00:11:23] various forums, think of... of SEO summit last year
[00:11:26] 2025, think of bricks summit where they
[00:11:30] say every nation
[00:11:32] have has a right to have a government and a system
[00:11:36] their own choice and it should be
[00:11:40] alignment with their own culture and the wishes the people and
[00:11:44] other country has a right to dictate what
[00:11:47] whatever form of government nation wants to
[00:11:51] have
[00:11:51] so these things are absolutely clear and and
[00:11:55] Chinese statement and they say the same thing about Pakistan, they
[00:11:59] would stand with Pakistan and they would
[00:12:03] support Pakistan sovereignty, so is the case
[00:12:06] with with Iran, they would support Iran sovereignty, because that is
[00:12:10] the the emerging world order that you stop
[00:12:14] madling in the affairs of other nations and mind your own
[00:12:17] business, so that is the idea
[00:12:20] of Chinese
[00:12:24] world order. which they
[00:12:27] are proposing and they are saying very very
[00:12:31] clearly to the rest the world and for the Americans
[00:12:34] it is clear indication that
[00:12:37] the that the lines are drawn, they cannot cross them, and I
[00:12:40] think all these matters will be discussed in Washington
[00:12:44] when President Shing Ping meets president Trump on the
[00:12:48] 24th of this month, so this remains to be seen
[00:12:51] that how it actually plays out, but the message is absolutely. that
[00:12:55] they will not let Iran fall and this
[00:12:59] should be understood by everybody, not only in the
[00:13:03] region, but even in other parts the world,
[00:13:07] so if China is saying that well
[00:13:22] brings us to the end the first segment of today in the second. segment we are going
[00:13:26] to understand what exactly artificial
[00:13:29] intelligence is up to. there was there was a
[00:13:33] purpose, guess behind creation of artificial intelligence
[00:13:37] to augment and expand the capability of human
[00:13:41] beings, but what about that scenario when
[00:13:44] autonomous artificial intelligence crosses
[00:13:47] boundaries which is been set by the creators.
[00:13:51] now there is one example of that, google has
[00:13:55] confessed that its gemini model has breached the system of
[00:13:59] three rail companies a cyber security
[00:14:03] test
[00:14:04] now that cyber security test was actually designed
[00:14:07] against the fake or
[00:14:11] something that has been made up the ficticious
[00:14:14] companies but they got the internet access and they
[00:14:18] breached the system the three rail companies
[00:14:22] now this brings us to number of very important
[00:14:25] questions, there are also a number of alarming statements which have been
[00:14:29] made by leading giants of this particular industry regarding
[00:14:33] as to what sort of threats artificial intelligence is posing right
[00:14:37] now and in the longer run, especially when you talk about a decades
[00:14:41] time what it could potentially do with the
[00:14:45] humanity generally. this important subject of for
[00:14:49] discussion for that we are honored to being joined by Mr. Ahmed Manzor, he is a
[00:14:52] technologist. Manzor, Thank you very much for being with us
[00:14:56] on the show tonight, really appreciate that. First of
[00:14:59] all, starting with this question,
[00:15:03] now the artificial intelligence is created for a purpose, what I
[00:15:07] understand is it's to augment and expand or assist the
[00:15:11] human capabilities in order to help humans
[00:15:14] out, but what about a more autonomous
[00:15:18] model that actually surpasses or goes
[00:15:21] beyond the boundaries which have been set by the creators?
[00:15:26] sir, first of all thank you for having me here, basically
[00:15:29] whenever you build any technology ever, ever, it
[00:15:33] comes with the good things, but it came also with the bad things as well.
[00:15:37] because when you are augmented anything, you are
[00:15:40] basically expanding anything, so there there
[00:15:44] are the formulas behind it, so those formulas need to be broken
[00:15:48] as well to build the new formulas, you always remember that
[00:15:52] right, so in AI, this is the same thing, they basically now
[00:15:56] many companies are experimenting, so they
[00:15:59] build the companies like two three companies and something previously anthropic
[00:16:03] done that, now gemini do that and the open AI is also doing that.
[00:16:08] so what's going on, they are experimenting how to build the
[00:16:11] company first and that is obviously experimenting company and
[00:16:15] then break the rules, they made
[00:16:19] AI to break the rules come up in that that is
[00:16:21] basically in you have heard of it,
[00:16:25] AI blackmailing the employees as well,
[00:16:29] blackmailing the boss as well, because it have lot
[00:16:32] of its data with it, so yes it's for
[00:16:36] good but l on when we are making policies anything like the
[00:16:40] cyber security like AI like so we need to break those things
[00:16:44] as well so we need to check that how beyond it will go to make the
[00:16:47] best policies as well when we
[00:16:51] specify talk about that anthropic CEO who has
[00:16:55] called for a collective slow down to ensure safeguards keep pace
[00:16:59] with the development also there are number
[00:17:03] of leading figures from these leading companies they have come up
[00:17:07] with sort of warning or the
[00:17:10] other, in what perspective do you actually analyze
[00:17:13] those warning at the same time and intender with
[00:17:17] that, keep on experimenting and trying to breach whatever the
[00:17:21] rules they have created that you just already alluded to?
[00:17:24] basically I look into it like this, like if we want to make
[00:17:28] policies, obviously they are right in some
[00:17:31] way, not like it's going to be done,
[00:17:35] AI will do something bad tomorrow. but
[00:17:39] we like in the experimenting thing and all the big
[00:17:43] figures are saying something
[00:17:44] that the AI going even though some person also said that in the next 10 years
[00:17:48] human will all the human will die so that is
[00:17:51] also an statement is there but what does it
[00:17:55] mean it means you need to make good policies for that like Pakistan is already
[00:17:59] doing it so we are these two years basically
[00:18:03] 2026 and 2027 if you heard of it there are a lot of
[00:18:07] company lot of countries going to build
[00:18:10] policies over technology so they can use technology more
[00:18:14] productively so this is not something that like there
[00:18:18] is an act come from european union act
[00:18:21] 2026 so all the platforms going to use AI very
[00:18:25] ethically when they put some AI engine in between
[00:18:29] between person and the other social
[00:18:33] platform so what does it mean it means when uh
[00:18:37] anything goes online, it will go through that engine, so it will
[00:18:41] if that image, that video made by
[00:18:45] AI, it will market like this build with the
[00:18:48] AI.
[00:18:52] Mr. Ahmed, can you hear me please? yeah, now yeah, now artificial
[00:18:56] intelligence is not working at the moment because I had been trying to interject
[00:19:00] from last few moments, I I hope they they haven't
[00:19:04] taken over the system that are using right now ' what
[00:19:07] about that particular scenario? i don't
[00:19:11] exactly remember the name of that person who has just given us a warning
[00:19:15] that artificial intelligence could become so lethal that it could
[00:19:19] actually led to the extinction of humanity,
[00:19:23] if that is what he had said or somewhat
[00:19:26] something like that, but that that that is quite
[00:19:29] alarming sort of a statement to give,
[00:19:33] everybody would
[00:19:34] be the person name is Jacob actually, he worked for anthropic
[00:19:36] i think. few years back statements? yeah,
[00:19:40] sorry. do you think it's responsible to give such type of
[00:19:44] statements? or are they are the supported by
[00:19:47] evidence? basically, always think like this
[00:19:51] is very irresponsible, this is something like same
[00:19:55] like when the pandemic goes goes on and everybody is want
[00:19:58] the vaccine of corona, there is some guy a scientist came up with the with the
[00:20:02] statement in the
[00:20:04] in the next two years all the people who got the corona vaccine will die.
[00:20:08] so this is this same kind of thing, think i i saw
[00:20:12] that like this, but we what we need to do, we need to
[00:20:16] understand, but at the same time, but at the same time, mr.
[00:20:19] ahmed, one last question, we have press with time, but
[00:20:23] at the same time there are bad things also happening, for instance google
[00:20:27] is accepted that it's geminie moral
[00:20:30] has breach the system of three rail companies in
[00:20:34] fact that cyber security test was intended on some
[00:20:37] ficticious companies with the internet access,
[00:20:41] it did bypass those boundaries or the rules which was said by the
[00:20:45] creators, at the same time there are number of actors which
[00:20:49] are using artificial intelligence for negative purposes, but
[00:20:52] at the same time the negative things are also happening, how to
[00:20:56] address those? basically again the same thing I
[00:21:00] was saying that we need to build up the policies, what we need to
[00:21:03] do, we need to give everybody the awareness about the AI, we
[00:21:07] need to give them the knowledge that how to also in that knowledge we
[00:21:11] need to tell them how to secure yourself, how to identify,
[00:21:15] this is a deep fake video, it's a deep audio, it's something that we
[00:21:19] need to understand understand all these things and we make other people to understand these
[00:21:23] things, that's why that's how can we
[00:21:26] make things more workable for us, because this is a productivity
[00:21:30] tool, we need to use it like it's our an
[00:21:34] assistant actually when the humans have a complete
[00:21:37] control, but what about a scenario that could be more
[00:21:41] alarming when the artificial intelligence become more autonomous
[00:21:45] and start doing things beyond those set rules by
[00:21:48] itself and that's particular precision or accuracy
[00:21:51] on the part of artificial artificial intelligence with more
[00:21:55] development, i think that is going to increase and i guess
[00:21:59] that is the real threat in this sort of a scenario,
[00:22:36] Pakistan's uh geography is very strategic, very
[00:22:39] important, it connects multiple regions, we are
[00:22:43] a higher platform a higher pedestal, this new
[00:22:46] phase in which we are now a mutual defense agreement.
[00:22:50] brings together two the Muslim world's strongest
[00:22:54] militaries and military capabilities which are Pakistan and Turkey Gaza
[00:22:58] situation is even more perturbing
[00:23:02] and it doesn't seem that I mean the the current
[00:23:05] sort of Israeli actions there, I mean they are not
[00:23:09] willing to relinquish sort the territory that they have
[00:23:12] occupied, if President Trump is able to get this kind of disarmament
[00:23:16] to take place in in in in Gaza. "this
[00:23:20] would be huge victory for him, but it's a matter of bringing bringing the
[00:23:24] Israeli Israel to the table who's already
[00:23:28] rejected this kind of us back road map, the fact that the Israeli
[00:23:31] military and government and militia and illegal
[00:23:35] settlers are kind of collaborating to take away these lands
[00:23:38] and occupy them and settle them with Israelis. these
[00:23:42] deployments are very demanding, both on the equipment and on the
[00:23:45] crew, there are roughly 4,800
[00:23:49] person personnel aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln if you include the ship's
[00:23:53] crew and the air wing um and they have been at sea now
[00:23:57] for uh nine months continuously Iran tends to play
[00:24:01] the game what
[00:24:02] we say they continue the dance the United States wants Iran to come to the
[00:24:05] table and they're making concessions to get Iran to come to the table and Iran's making
[00:24:09] demands for additional concessions to get to the
[00:24:12] table.
[00:24:19] where
[00:25:39] second thought about the fact that he is the man of
[00:25:43] peace
[00:25:48] you about about the Pakistan.
[00:26:07] "there is no longer any blind approval for Israeli
[00:26:11] policy, because the Americans have paid, American soldiers have died,
[00:26:14] hundreds have been injured and hurt, for what? for nothing.
[00:26:18] the military conflict came to
[00:26:21] draw, nobody won, neither side really wants
[00:26:25] to re-engage militarily, so it has
[00:26:28] evolved into economic conflict."
[00:26:32] as society we do stur a chance when it comes to platform accountability and
[00:26:36] specifically protecting our children online. the innocent people of
[00:26:40] afghanistan are the biggest victim of this application. they do not
[00:26:44] exist, let's be very frank, they do not exist in their mind, they do
[00:26:48] not exist in their
[00:26:49] policies.
[00:29:34] Prime Minister today, Alibaba, it was an extraordinary
[00:29:38] visit, this visit is about
[00:29:41] one message, Pakistan China relations are moving from
[00:29:45] friendship to
[00:29:46] investment. Hello,
[00:29:50] welcome, Pakistan TV is here in
[00:29:53] Beijing.
[00:30:20] You're watching Pakistan TV, this is Muhammad Abdullah Dar. Let's see the top
[00:30:23] stories.
[00:30:40] Deputy Prime Minister and Form Minister Isar has departed Islamabad for New
[00:30:44] York where he will accompany Prime Minister Shahbas Sharif from 21st to
[00:30:48] 25th of September for the high level week the 81st session
[00:30:51] the United Nations General Assembly.