PAKISTANTV — broadcast
20260920 143000 UTC
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[00:00:00] negotiate and negotiations or
[00:00:02] of mediators, whatever you want
[00:00:03] to call them, the fact is there was something called the mecca courts,
[00:00:07] which you
[00:00:08] a reference, that said attack on one country is attack on
[00:00:11] three countries, and right now what we hear is that
[00:00:15] there are some noises coming from Turkey saying
[00:00:18] that, as you point out they have
[00:00:21] of bases there, maybe they will take some action, pakistan is retreated back
[00:00:25] to this idea that it will be mediator, and you're
[00:00:29] expressing that very... clearly, but that is at odds with the
[00:00:32] Mecca accords, so right now
[00:00:36] it is not, and I agree, it does not make sense for Pakistan
[00:00:39] or anybody else, Turkey, etc., to
[00:00:43] wait in militarily, all you do is have lot of body
[00:00:46] bags, but
[00:00:48] of collectively with the other countries around there, there could be
[00:00:52] imposed some sort of embargo where you
[00:00:56] basically cut off their supplies,
[00:01:00] terrible thing about that is that the who will suffer
[00:01:04] of of course the civilians, but in it it's the only other
[00:01:07] alternative
[00:01:08] of is international action by an overwhelming number of middle
[00:01:12] countries saying that we are not going to allow you to keep
[00:01:16] pressing this war against the interests of everyone in the region
[00:01:20] and everyone in the world, that would be inappropriate
[00:01:24] response, as i said it does not involve troops on the
[00:01:26] ground, that's rightly mentioned by UN. "we might be looking
[00:01:30] for an ideal world where we just want to know what needs to be
[00:01:34] done, but that is the very important thing, we have to work and see the
[00:01:38] practicality of this aspect that what can be done. thank you so much for raising such
[00:01:42] valid concerns and joining
[00:01:43] in view at seven, we were joined by Mr. anart who is a senior fellow
[00:01:47] a at center for international governance and innovations and he is a chairman of
[00:01:51] Asia analities. moving forward towards Mr. kava hasan, he is a non-resident
[00:01:55] fellow at middle east and north africa program at the
[00:01:58] Stimson center, he has..." has joined us from Brussels, welcome to the program
[00:02:02] views at seven Mr. Kava, what do you think given the reported
[00:02:06] attacks on the commercial shippings, what immediate measures are needed to protect
[00:02:10] the civilian vessels to maintain the freedom of navigation in the red sea
[00:02:13] and babal manda because civilians vessel should be
[00:02:17] secured in this warfare, civilians should not be be
[00:02:20] targeted, the commercial shipping should not be targeted, what
[00:02:24] is the issue, what needs to be done when it comes to the
[00:02:28] security of civilian vessels? "well, I think yes, I
[00:02:32] mean,
[00:02:32] of theoretically, absolutely, the civilian vessels should be
[00:02:36] protected also under international law,
[00:02:40] so there is no issue about that, I think there is no dispute about that,
[00:02:44] the issue is that, I mean in this war, there is
[00:02:48] not anymore any distinction between commercial shipping,
[00:02:52] civilian shipping and
[00:02:54] of otherwise, so that's why Iran is
[00:02:58] attacking any ships." that deems that they don't
[00:03:01] apply with their
[00:03:03] of policy and and you you have this US
[00:03:07] blockade of of Iranian ports which is also making it
[00:03:11] almost impossible for Iran at least from the state of
[00:03:14] Wormus to export oil
[00:03:18] a so theoretically yes it shouldn't be like that it should be
[00:03:22] like this and they should be protected and what could be done
[00:03:25] basically right now what US is doing is trying to help.
[00:03:30] ships containers getting oil and gas out
[00:03:33] of the state of hormers and and they they succeed in
[00:03:36] that partially not fully but partially,
[00:03:39] so I i think at this stage this is probably this is the maximum
[00:03:43] what could be done in terms of providing some
[00:03:47] free passage for for some vessels to to go through
[00:03:50] the the straight all right so can diplomatic
[00:03:54] engagement with the hoties address the security concern of Saudi Arabia or
[00:03:58] is the current traject? likely to remain
[00:04:01] primarily militarily, we need to be you know
[00:04:05] more concerned about the diplomatic aspects of it, because we have seen it is the
[00:04:09] exchange of very swear exchange of military between
[00:04:13] or among the countries, so what should be the
[00:04:16] diplomatic options? i think before talking about the diplomatic
[00:04:20] option, i think you spoke about the military dynamics on the
[00:04:24] ground and in the sea, i think that's more it
[00:04:28] all points to one direction. namely further escalation and and
[00:04:31] quite heavy escalation because Saudi Arabia cannot
[00:04:35] accept being attacked by his continuously even
[00:04:39] of Riad and even Mecca, so Saudi Arabia is responding
[00:04:43] by
[00:04:45] of of conducting you know air campaigns which of course they they you they haven't
[00:04:49] yet admitted because they can't
[00:04:51] of accept you know this this the current situation who
[00:04:55] these are they they are you know kind
[00:04:58] of over overconfident because
[00:05:01] they have managed to you basically
[00:05:05] take Maha and some other you know strategic places so they are
[00:05:08] overconfident and and and they they may...
[00:05:12] overreach at some point, but right now I expect further escalation
[00:05:16] because Saudi Arabia will respond, has no option but
[00:05:19] respond, and Hufis will not back
[00:05:23] down, and actually this this current situation is isn't, it's good for
[00:05:26] Iran even though maybe they they you not directly may be involved in
[00:05:30] it, but it serves the strategic interest of of Iran
[00:05:34] by keeping Saudi Arabia under pressure, by keeping the global
[00:05:38] economy under enormous pressure, now when it comes to the
[00:05:41] diplomatic ' offramp
[00:05:44] i'm not optimistic at all really in the short term
[00:05:48] because i don't think there is any any space any
[00:05:52] any opportunity for any even a common common ground
[00:05:56] between Saudi Arabia and which is at this particular stage for
[00:05:59] reasons that i mentioned over confidence and saudi need
[00:06:03] to it's not only you analyst
[00:06:07] across the globe are skeptic about this thing that there would
[00:06:11] be ds tions, but ultimately, ultimately,
[00:06:15] does the latest escalations demonstrate the limit to military only
[00:06:18] approach to Yemen or what would be the sustainable
[00:06:21] regional deescalation framework? we all
[00:06:25] know that the more actors are involved in it, the more
[00:06:28] complex this conflict is becoming, but what needs to be done when it
[00:06:32] comes to, I have already asked you about the diplomatic framework, I have already asked you about the
[00:06:36] diplomatic options, I have asked my other guest as well, what needs to be done, what can be done,
[00:06:40] what is the practical step, but should be done by the international institutions, by the
[00:06:44] neighboring countries, by the mediators, but can you
[00:06:47] please have a thought on, you share your thought
[00:06:50] about the regional framework, because we have seen the regional countries are
[00:06:54] becoming more stronger, more autonomous when it comes to their own decisions,
[00:06:58] so what should be the regional framework in this condition? well, i think the regional
[00:07:02] framework is
[00:07:05] when key countries would make clear to
[00:07:08] who is that both regional countries?
[00:07:12] international powers, us, european union and others, china included,
[00:07:16] if they they should make to hoothies that it's unacceptable that that they
[00:07:20] hold global
[00:07:22] economy, hostage, so
[00:07:26] that needs to be done, you need a coordinated diplomatic approach, but I don't see that
[00:07:30] happening right now, what is also needed is
[00:07:34] the question is to what extent Pakistan and Turkey will be ready to activate the
[00:07:38] Mecca agreement and and make clear to the hoosies that they
[00:07:42] will... interven
[00:07:44] you know because their advances, ultimately what what needs to be done,
[00:07:48] I think for diplomatic track to move on is that
[00:07:52] both sides or sides will come to an understanding that they
[00:07:56] need to deescalate because they have an interest in that, and that
[00:07:59] I don't, I mean that that arriving at that point,
[00:08:02] I don't see that happening right now, he is will not back down, Iran
[00:08:06] will not back down and this situation will continue at least
[00:08:10] through November 3rd until me. term elections, well then by
[00:08:14] then we'll see where we are, and then what will be the calculations
[00:08:18] of of of Iran of US of
[00:08:22] Hotis? so I'm sorry to disappoint with that, I
[00:08:25] don't have really you know a good answer for your very good
[00:08:29] question, we actually don't want the good answer, we want
[00:08:33] the realistic approach to the conflict to unfold to aware people about that, but
[00:08:37] we are so much thankful to you for joining in and sharing the
[00:08:41] unfiltered uns approach when it comes to the middle
[00:08:44] eastern conflict, we were joined by Mr. Kava Hasan who
[00:08:47] is a non-resident fellow at middle east and North Africa program at the
[00:08:51] Stimson Center, he has joined us to discuss about the latest escalations
[00:08:55] in the Middle East, so now moving forward towards another issue that is
[00:08:58] unfolding and moving forward a very unprecedent
[00:09:02] speed and we couldn't match that speed, that is artificial intelligence,
[00:09:06] artificial intelligence is entering new phase
[00:09:09] as leading AI companies face growing concern. about the speed
[00:09:13] and the control of increasingly powerful systems, routers reports
[00:09:17] that over a 10 day period in September concerns
[00:09:21] intensified after AI researchers raised warnings about the
[00:09:25] safety, AI agents reportedly bypass the safe guards,
[00:09:29] the security guards of this system, the AI system
[00:09:33] and some industry leaders called for the slower pace of
[00:09:36] development and at the same time governments and the companies remain
[00:09:40] focused on AI's economic and technology ological and strategic potential
[00:09:44] as well, because we have seen every other day, every
[00:09:47] day when we wake up there is another technology that is unfolding, there is another feature
[00:09:51] the same AI tool are
[00:09:54] using and it is moving forward to very
[00:09:58] unprecedent speed which human cannot match
[00:10:02] and one way or other
[00:10:03] it is bypassing the security,
[00:10:05] it is bypassing the norms and values as well and it is something very
[00:10:09] critical, still there are a lot of debates that is it ethical or... not
[00:10:13] few channels, few even media houses, few institutions
[00:10:16] banned and some actually are allowing you encouraging to use
[00:10:20] it, still it is moving forward to an unprecedent speed, but on the other hand we are
[00:10:24] discussing: about
[00:10:25] it cythical use or not, so to discuss about that, we are joined
[00:10:28] by Mr. Wim vandle, he is a founder and principal of
[00:10:32] integration capacity analysis, he has joined us from Belgium.
[00:10:36] Mr. Win, welcome to program views at 7, what do you think that
[00:10:40] our AI company is developing the systems faster than they can
[00:10:43] understand of control them or they are
[00:10:47] just trying to do one thing or other thing faster than their
[00:10:51] competitor, they are in this race and they're not looking for. the pace they are
[00:10:55] working on and they are not looking at the speed or the
[00:10:59] ethical or the you know practical or practical
[00:11:03] must say that ethical are the legal use of it, what do you
[00:11:07] think? good
[00:11:09] evening, um, yes, i believe what
[00:11:13] what the whole evolution is showing that the capability
[00:11:17] of AI is going much faster than our ability to
[00:11:20] hold it together, to direct it and to control it, and
[00:11:25] given all these examples, so it's not about
[00:11:28] AGI or the system becoming autonomous, it's actually more
[00:11:32] simple, the AI companies, the builders itself, they
[00:11:35] start admitting that they cannot fully monitor what they
[00:11:38] built, safety researches working
[00:11:41] out all kind of groups like
[00:11:44] the the example in Yemen where they wants to use the AI model
[00:11:47] for missile guidance so they cannot control who is
[00:11:51] using it for what anymore and even more since
[00:11:55] AI starts programming, developing itself, it's harder and harder
[00:11:59] to keep control of how it is developed and what
[00:12:02] it is being used for, and beyond that, as you also
[00:12:05] mentioned, the companies are very much under
[00:12:09] pressure for money, but also the governments that push them
[00:12:12] because they see there's a kind of race between nations,
[00:12:16] particularly China and the USA, so
[00:12:20] everybody is pushing it and nobody is actually
[00:12:23] thinking of how we can make sure that this AI
[00:12:27] is not doing things that we cannot control or that
[00:12:31] we don't know what for what is being used
[00:12:35] or so how realistic is the concern that increasingly autonomous AI
[00:12:38] agents could act beyond the human
[00:12:41] supervision? it's already happening, we we we
[00:12:45] know the examples of hugging phase and other
[00:12:48] examples where the the AI sut into
[00:12:52] another systems, it it looked in
[00:12:55] it looked at secrets there days before actually anyone saw
[00:12:59] it, so yeah
[00:13:00] it is already happening um and a part is that there is
[00:13:04] very little supervision and there was also nobody really
[00:13:07] anyone being held accountable or being punished for that for the kind
[00:13:11] of incident so so you could say that the race
[00:13:15] okay so what do you think that if AI
[00:13:19] systems can identify the vulnerabilities and interact with the
[00:13:23] computer networks independently? what safeguard mayors are
[00:13:26] needed before the development them? as you have already mentioned that they can
[00:13:30] already work and they are working without the human supervision, so what needs
[00:13:34] to be done while designing that program, what needs to be done while
[00:13:38] designing that system? uh, we we
[00:13:42] believe
[00:13:42] that the safegards that matter most are actually around the machine, so there's a
[00:13:46] lot of research being done, lot of technical kind of things to try to control these
[00:13:50] machines, to to manage them, to give rules that to do certain things, but
[00:13:54] I believe... that we have to look outside as well, so the first
[00:13:58] question would then be, what is AI actually for, what is the
[00:14:01] purpose, and and nobody actually, so the AI companies used to have
[00:14:05] this AI purpose in their charter, in the commitments, but they
[00:14:09] all neglated on that, and
[00:14:11] they always changed it when it became quite hard to keep it because of money
[00:14:15] pressure or because of competitive or because of government
[00:14:18] regulations, so we have to go back there and declare for
[00:14:21] each AI company and AI in generally, as a
[00:14:25] human uh global community kind of thing, what is
[00:14:29] AI for, what is the purpose, what can we use it for, what can we not use
[00:14:33] it for, and what we have developed in integration
[00:14:37] capacity is just exactly a way of measuring whether
[00:14:41] then companies and the AI itself,
[00:14:44] number one, they actually keep the commitments, but number
[00:14:48] two whether the use of it is actually beneficial for the
[00:14:52] greater community and for society. or it so
[00:14:56] what do you think does the growing competition between US and China make it harder for the
[00:15:00] companies and the governments to slow down the AI developments and how
[00:15:03] should be aib held responsible for that
[00:15:07] for harming the social norms the developers or moving forward
[00:15:11] to the with the unprecedent speed as it is not working under the
[00:15:15] human supervision so so
[00:15:19] regarding US and China yeah of course it makes it harder suddenly at
[00:15:22] the the the the shorter moment. that the short term, in the longer
[00:15:26] term it might change, because for the moment everything is competition
[00:15:30] and the the the great power rival is actually hitting up and AI
[00:15:34] is becoming kind of a... prominent and
[00:15:38] essential piece where both these countries believe they can have a competitive
[00:15:42] edge, but when you think about this, there's no state that actually has
[00:15:46] decifer edge and and AI will not also give it, so I don't think
[00:15:49] anyone can win this race, um, even to
[00:15:53] the opposite, it is quite possible that the machine will
[00:15:56] actually bankrupt countries or can even split
[00:16:00] its own society while trying to win, so the sooner that
[00:16:04] the countries. we are so thankful to you
[00:16:08] for joining in vz at7 and sharing your insight regarding the development
[00:16:12] and the pace on which AI is developing work mainly
[00:16:16] threatening human work as well or human
[00:16:19] manp as well and may be threatening the policies
[00:16:23] or the security and the safety the countries as well thank you so much
[00:16:27] we were joined by Mr. Wim van Larry he is a founder and principal of
[00:16:31] integration capacity analysis he has joined us from Belgium so now moving forward
[00:16:35] and one way we are just talking about AI talking about the emerging
[00:16:39] technologies, but on the other side the world we have
[00:16:43] seen the issues of same that were their centuries back,
[00:16:47] that were their decades back, that is the gender based violence. South Africa is
[00:16:51] facing renewed public anger over the violence against women
[00:16:54] after the bodies of nine women, women
[00:16:57] found in South Africa over the past
[00:17:01] two months and that's that's quite alarming, police are investigating whether the killings
[00:17:05] are connected, the deaths have triggered. the memory memorial
[00:17:09] runs, the protest, the stronger call for the actions, the protest
[00:17:13] by the civil society, the social media protest with the concerns also
[00:17:17] being raised about the policing, resources and effectiveness of existing myers
[00:17:21] against the gender based violence there. to discuss about that, we are
[00:17:24] joined by Dr. John. She is security analyst in Cape
[00:17:28] Town, South Africa. Dr. swart, welcome to program views at seven.
[00:17:32] What do you think that on one hand we are discussing about the emerging
[00:17:36] technology in the world? while on
[00:17:38] the other hand the gender based violence is there, why has the gender based
[00:17:41] violence remained such serious challenge in South Africa despite being
[00:17:45] declared as national disaster in
[00:17:48] 2025? yes, first of
[00:17:51] all, thank you very much for the invitation, it's really an honor to
[00:17:55] be speaking with you. um, so we must
[00:17:59] remember, first of all, the classification is not the same as
[00:18:02] implementation,
[00:18:04] you know, in South Africa, we are very
[00:18:07] good at talking, we have committees and meetings and
[00:18:11] workshops and we don't always implement
[00:18:14] things very well, so while this national disaster
[00:18:18] designation creates obligations for
[00:18:22] coordination and for reporting, it does not
[00:18:26] really change much on the ground, it doesn't change
[00:18:28] behavior, policing capacity or criminal
[00:18:32] justice outcomes, so we have already have
[00:18:36] substantial legislation, strategies
[00:18:40] and programs, but we must remember
[00:18:43] that the problem is systemic rather than a
[00:18:47] single policy or department failure.
[00:18:51] um, violence occurs, as we know across different
[00:18:54] social and economic environments
[00:18:57] and intimate partner or family violence
[00:19:01] is major component of this, but we also
[00:19:04] have predatory violence and this must may
[00:19:08] be case in terms of it being a serial killer, it
[00:19:12] looks like it, it hasn't been confirmed yet, sexual
[00:19:16] violence, gang violence, lot of a big
[00:19:19] problem in the area where in the province where i am,
[00:19:23] human trafficking and so on, so there's
[00:19:27] a different context that we need to look
[00:19:30] at, and the underlying social conditions
[00:19:34] are the first of those,
[00:19:36] the normal ation of violence is a big problem, exposure to
[00:19:40] violence from childhood, things like substance
[00:19:44] abuse, family, community breakdown,
[00:19:48] economic and social vulnerability, so where
[00:19:52] I would always avoid just
[00:19:56] talking about gender based violence as being
[00:20:00] caused by poverty, it's a lot wider than that, and just
[00:20:04] to give you an idea, um, our most recent crime
[00:20:08] report recorded more than 5000 murders
[00:20:11] in the first quarter of
[00:20:13] 2026-27 and that's
[00:20:16] 57 per day or 34 per
[00:20:20] 100 thousand um the population and that
[00:20:24] places South Africa and the fifth worst
[00:20:28] in the world after countries like Haiti, Ecuador,
[00:20:32] Jamaica and Andurus, so there's
[00:20:36] definitely a lot. that we can do still, but it needs to
[00:20:40] be implemented instead of just
[00:20:42] talking. that's that's very thoughtful of you that
[00:20:46] normalization of violence is actual problem which we have.
[00:20:50] seen in the developing countries, so considering the fact that the
[00:20:53] investigations are going on, are the limited police resources or investigation
[00:20:57] capacity contributing to the failure to prevent to solve such issue
[00:21:01] and what specific mayor authorities can take to make
[00:21:05] the situation make the place safer for the women, as you have raised
[00:21:09] lot of different you know angles of
[00:21:12] this this violence, these deaths, it can
[00:21:15] be due to the human trafficking, there there can be multiple reasons
[00:21:19] behind. that it could be coordinated as well,
[00:21:21] it could be serial killing as well, what what is the
[00:21:25] authority doing there, what are the you know how they are
[00:21:29] directed their resources towards a proper investigation of
[00:21:33] this, you know I must say it is such thing that
[00:21:36] it is, it is actual a national disaster that is impacting a vulnerable
[00:21:40] gender in the world, yes yes of course
[00:21:44] it is, it's it's really a big problem and you mention
[00:21:48] limited police resources and investigative
[00:21:51] capacity and whether that's the problem, and yes,
[00:21:55] it's a part of resources are a part the problem,
[00:21:59] but it's not the entire problem, so we know that police can't
[00:22:03] be everywhere, and investigators have got enormous
[00:22:07] case loads, we've got a problem with forensic
[00:22:11] backlogs, and intelligence and
[00:22:14] information sharing matter quite a big deal, and
[00:22:18] that is also often lacking. so we talking
[00:22:22] about investigation, of course that's evidence preservation,
[00:22:25] forensics, DNA, witness management, um,
[00:22:29] telephone evidence, intelligence analysis
[00:22:33] and so on, um, and I've also mentioned
[00:22:36] forensic capacity, that's very important, when you've got a
[00:22:39] backlock, you can't actually take um
[00:22:43] cases to court, so there's been delays
[00:22:47] of a couple of years, so... We
[00:22:50] also, I also need to stress that more resources does
[00:22:54] not mean automatically better policing, we
[00:22:58] need to allocate the resources properly, training
[00:23:02] and specialization has to take place, proper management,
[00:23:06] accountability, the data systems, and then
[00:23:09] interagency corporation as well, and and
[00:23:13] then lastly, to just conclude this
[00:23:17] answer of mine, we in deterrances. also very important,
[00:23:21] so criminals does not only respond to severe
[00:23:25] punishment, but it's the probability of being
[00:23:28] identified, arrested and prosecuted, that
[00:23:32] is more important than the sentence
[00:23:34] itself. no doubt about it, you have raised such
[00:23:38] w concern it is not about the resources, it is about the allocation of resources and especially
[00:23:42] the capacity building the law enforcement agencies
[00:23:46] when it comes to the gender based violence and when it comes to the women related.
[00:23:50] issues the proper investigation, the proper ways to
[00:23:54] deter this thing, to stop this thing, to investigate this thing, to stop
[00:23:58] this criminal act, which is actually national disaster
[00:24:01] all over the world, especially in the developing countries. thank you so much dr. swart
[00:24:05] for joining in and sharing your views with us, we were joined by Dr. John Swat, she is
[00:24:09] security analyst based in Cape Town, South Africa and we were discussing
[00:24:13] about the killing of nine women there, it could
[00:24:16] be due to multiple reasons, the investigations are going on,
[00:24:20] to detect the reason behind that and that is it from tonight's
[00:24:24] views at seven. In tonight's views at seven we have discussed about the Middle Eastern crisis, we
[00:24:28] have discussed about the technological crisis, the AI at its
[00:24:31] unprecedent speed, and on one way we and we are moving forward
[00:24:35] towards the emerging technology, we are moving towards
[00:24:37] the other planets, but on the other hand, we are still living in
[00:24:41] stoneage where we have seen that women are facing gender based
[00:24:44] violence, vulnerable segment, a vulnerable gender is
[00:24:48] more vulnerable. in this cruel world, so that is it, this is your host
[00:24:52] mhar qureishi, signing off, keep watching Pakistan
[00:24:55] TV.
[00:25:33] Modi regime is employing strong arm tactics to stifle free
[00:25:36] media in occupied Jammu and Kashmir.
[00:25:40] Journalists in occupied region are harassed and booked in
[00:25:43] fabricated cases for reporting truth. The
[00:25:47] victimization of journalists in occupied. Jammu and Kashmir has
[00:25:51] increased manifold since 5th August
[00:25:53] 2019. Modi regime is using
[00:25:57] notorious agencies like nia and sia to raid
[00:26:01] journalists homes in. occupied Jammu and
[00:26:03] Kashmir International Community must act to
[00:26:07] protect independent media in occupied Jammu and
[00:26:10] Kashmir.
[00:30:19] Good evening, assalamualaikum, you're watching Pakistan TV, I'm Faham Bangish
[00:30:23] with the headline news for this
[00:30:24] hour.
[00:30:41] Deputy prime minister and foreign minister Sagdat Depart Islamabad for New York
[00:30:45] where he will accompany Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif from 21st to
[00:30:49] 25th of September for the high level week, the 81st
[00:30:52] session the UN General
[00:30:54] Assembly.