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20261011 050000 UTC
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[00:00:19] Hello and welcome to pakistan tv, live from Islamabad studios, I
[00:00:23] am SN Haqaani, let's have look at the
[00:00:28] of headlines.
[00:00:33] of
[00:00:39] At least 12 people have been killed and 309 others wounded in
[00:00:42] attack on king Khalid international
[00:00:44] of airport in
[00:00:45] Riyadh.
[00:00:49] The Prime Minister Shabbaz Sharief strongly condemns the hoothi militia's attack on the
[00:00:53] a King Khalid international
[00:00:54] of airport in Raad calling it serious threat to regional peace and
[00:00:57] stability.
[00:01:00] of The President
[00:01:03] of of the United States Donald Trump condemns attack on Riyad's international airport calling it
[00:01:07] unacceptable. He says he will soon decide whether to
[00:01:10] a join the strikes of Saudis against the
[00:01:14] of Hutis. Saudi led collision in Yemen has bound to respond
[00:01:18] to houti attack a passenger terminal at Rad's King
[00:01:22] Khalid international airport that cause deaths and injuries,
[00:01:25] condemning it as a war crime under the international humanitarian
[00:01:29] of law. The United
[00:01:33] Nations human rights office urges India to
[00:01:35] of immediately release the people arbitrarily detained during the protest
[00:01:39] against the electoral misconduct, expressing concern over the mass
[00:01:43] detention in New
[00:02:05] of
[00:02:14] of those were the headlines, now
[00:02:18] the news in
[00:02:19] of of of detail: at least 12 people have been killed and 309 injured an attack on the
[00:02:22] international airport in Saudi Arabia's capital Riyad, days
[00:02:25] of after Yemen's hoothies claim to have carried out similar strikes on the
[00:02:28] hub the civil aviation authority of Saudi Arabia
[00:02:32] said that the victims were for so these two Bangladeshi nationals while Egypt,
[00:02:36] Jordan, Palestine, Sudan and Syria and the United States had one
[00:02:40] a of their citizens killed. Operations at the King Khalid international airport in
[00:02:44] Riyadh have been suspended. The US embassy said that it was aware
[00:02:50] of of the attacks surging Americans to avoid the
[00:02:50] of area. According to the Saudi Led
[00:02:51] in coalition, the
[00:02:52] in projectile also fell near the king fahal international airport in themam in the eastern
[00:02:56] Saudi Arabia. The attack comes a day after the authorities said that
[00:03:00] three sodies, including pilot were killed in
[00:03:02] of two attacks on the
[00:03:03] of airport by the hoothies the day prior. another three people
[00:03:07] were killed in hiothy attacks on two airports of Saudi Arabia
[00:03:11] on the 6th and the 7th
[00:03:12] of of of of
[00:03:12] October.
[00:03:16] of of the prime minister of
[00:03:18] in Pakistan shebas sharif has strongly condemned the henous attack
[00:03:21] of by the hoouti malitia on the king Khalid international airport and rad
[00:03:24] of of expressing deep his condolences to the burrie families and praying for the swift and full
[00:03:28] recovery
[00:03:28] of the injured. and the post on ex
[00:03:30] the prime minister said that the attacks targeting civilians and critical infrastructure were
[00:03:34] completely unacceptable and posed serious threat to regional peace and
[00:03:38] stability. he added that such acts of violence which constitute a flagrant
[00:03:42] violation
[00:03:42] of the international law must seiz immediately. sharif reaffirmed
[00:03:46] Pakistan's unvaving solidarity with the
[00:03:48] of a kingdom of Saudi Arabia, its leadership and brotherly people. he also reiterated
[00:03:52] Pakistan's steadfast commitment to Saudi Arabia sovereignty, territorial integrity and
[00:03:56] security in accordance with the Makacca joint defense agreement and the...
[00:04:00] bonds of brotherhood between the two
[00:04:03] in
[00:04:04] of countries.
[00:04:08] Donald Trump said that attack on Ryan's international airport that killed a dozen
[00:04:11] people on Saturday was not acceptable. Speaking to reporters, Donald Trump said
[00:04:15] that he will be speaking with Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammed bin
[00:04:19] Salman following the attack plimed on the Yemanies.
[00:04:22] Earlier, US President
[00:04:24] of Donald of Trump of said that he would soon decide whether to join
[00:04:27] a the Saudi strikes against the Hutis following attack on the... international airport
[00:04:31] that killed 12 people, including
[00:04:32] a US citizen. Donald Trump told the reporters
[00:04:35] that white house in the United States might join with the soudy strikes against the
[00:04:38] Hutis, adding that the decision would be made soon as Washington DC
[00:04:42] had just learned
[00:04:43] of the recent attacks and could take action
[00:04:46] quickly.
[00:04:51] me of The Saudi led collision in
[00:04:55] Yemen has found to
[00:04:56] of respond firmly to the Houti attacks on King Khalid International.
[00:05:00] which left people dead and injured. The attack on Saturday targeted
[00:05:04] passenger terminal at the airport in Saudi Arabia's capital. The
[00:05:08] collision spokesperson Turkey said
[00:05:10] in a statement on X that the assault. institutes of war crime under the
[00:05:14] international humanitarian law, he described it as the heanus act that
[00:05:18] violates the humanitarian principles, values and morals. almalki
[00:05:22] stressed that the coalision joint forces command would respond firmly to
[00:05:26] what he called terrorist attack in accordance with the international and humanitarian
[00:05:29] law.
[00:05:36] that's all the news that we have for the moment from my side and the entire news team of
[00:05:40] pakistan tv. for more news details and to log to website
[00:05:43] pakistantv.com. It's goodbye for
[00:05:46] now.
[00:06:17] Hello and welcome to unfold, I am
[00:06:19] Javar Tehami. In the first segment, we are going to try to understand the European
[00:06:23] Union policy towards as well, amid the atrocities and the
[00:06:27] brutalities which has been perpetated by Israel's regime and its
[00:06:30] illegal occupation forces in Gaza in
[00:06:34] particular. In the second segment we are going to understand
[00:06:37] regarding the situation generally over there in
[00:06:41] the Middle East. when it comes to the US Iran conflict, there is a hint by US
[00:06:45] President Donald Trump of halting the direct strikes against
[00:06:49] Iran until after the midterm elections
[00:06:52] in November, also when we talk about the
[00:06:56] increase and attacks by Houti against Saudi
[00:06:59] Arabia and also the commitment the
[00:07:02] regional defense packed countries including Turkey and
[00:07:06] Pakistan for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and the overall
[00:07:10] security the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. we are going to
[00:07:14] take the understanding regarding as to what is unfolding at the
[00:07:17] moment in the middle east generally on those particular
[00:07:20] fronts in the second segment of today's show. let's
[00:07:24] begin with the first one when we specifically talk about the
[00:07:28] European Union, we know for fact that it claims to be the
[00:07:32] champion of human rights, the international law and the
[00:07:35] democratic values, but when we specifically
[00:07:39] talk about the European Union's collective. policy
[00:07:43] towards Israel, especially after the kind of
[00:07:46] situation that is unfolded since 8th of October
[00:07:50] 2023, the relentless bombardment as result of which
[00:07:54] more than 7500 innocent Palestinians have
[00:07:57] lost their lives in Gaza alone, at the same
[00:08:01] time there is case the rapidly expanding
[00:08:05] illegal settlements in the West Bank also,
[00:08:09] there there are certain questions. are
[00:08:12] being raised when it comes to the collective policy the European Union
[00:08:16] towards Israel with these
[00:08:20] policies also we know for there is a survey report that talks
[00:08:23] about how many percentage of people when it comes
[00:08:26] to the two major European countries including
[00:08:30] Germany and Italy, there is a considerable percentage the
[00:08:34] people that are talking against
[00:08:37] Israel, they've got the negative opinion about Israeli
[00:08:41] policies. in the occupied Palestinian
[00:08:45] territories, at the same time, we've also
[00:08:48] seen that more than
[00:08:51] former officials from the European Union, including the
[00:08:55] diplomats, they have accused Germany and
[00:08:58] Italy of blocking the meaningful action
[00:09:02] against Israel, on the other side we see there are certain moves
[00:09:06] that are made by Britain, France as well as Canada when it comes
[00:09:10] to putting the restrictions regarding the... trade related to
[00:09:13] illegal settlements in as well, so do we
[00:09:17] understand that there is lack of
[00:09:21] unanimity and unity among the European Union countries when it
[00:09:25] comes to its policy towards as
[00:09:28] well
[00:09:29] and is really high-handedness, its
[00:09:33] bombardment against the innocent people in Gaza, the kind of
[00:09:37] damage and destruction there has been accuwed as result of that,
[00:09:40] also we know for fact there is a diet humanitarian crisis
[00:09:44] that is unfolding in Gaza's enclave also
[00:09:48] will try to understand or is this the
[00:09:52] evidence of diminishing European
[00:09:55] Union influence all across because of its
[00:09:59] double standards or these the double standards will try to
[00:10:02] understand it from Miss Helga Zeplarush she is
[00:10:06] the founder of Shillar Institute Miss Larush thank you very much for
[00:10:10] being with us on the show tonight really. appreciate that, also we
[00:10:14] are honored to being joined by Miss Sara Keira, she is expert in international
[00:10:17] relations, founder of European North African Center for
[00:10:21] Research. Sarah, thank you very much for your time also for. with us
[00:10:25] on the show tonight, really appreciate that. Let's begin the discussion with
[00:10:29] you, Miss Larush, could you give us an understanding, do
[00:10:33] we understand that Europe generally
[00:10:36] remains divided at this point in time, as we speak, there are more
[00:10:40] than 500 officials from the European Union, former
[00:10:44] officials, including the diplomats, that have accused Germany and
[00:10:47] Italy of blocking the meaningful action when it comes to
[00:10:51] Israeli policies in Gaza, on the other hand we "we've seen
[00:10:55] some moves happening on the part of Britain, France as well
[00:10:59] as Canada when it comes to the trade related to illegal
[00:11:03] settlements, do we understand the Europe remains divided at this moment
[00:11:06] and what are the core reasons for that
[00:11:10] division among the European Union
[00:11:12] members? well, I think
[00:11:16] so far the only government of Europe which has taken
[00:11:19] a courageous stand given the
[00:11:22] environment supporting the Palestine." is
[00:11:26] the Spanish government of Sanchez,
[00:11:29] so I have said that they have uphold the honor of Europe, because
[00:11:33] otherwise it is only opposition groups in the different countries who
[00:11:37] have come out for the rights the
[00:11:40] Palestinians, I think the reasons
[00:11:44] are many fold and complicated, I think one big
[00:11:48] factor for sure to
[00:11:49] explain
[00:11:52] the the discrepancy between what the people the... countries want and what
[00:11:56] the governments are actually doing, if you have to look at
[00:12:00] the United States, because the United States obviously,
[00:12:03] especially with the present Trump administration is
[00:12:06] closely allied with
[00:12:09] Israel, and therefore the influence the
[00:12:12] Atlantics in the European governments is one
[00:12:16] big cause, it is just politically
[00:12:19] opportune
[00:12:20] you now to to be on the side of Israel, the defense of
[00:12:24] Israel, better what they do is being regarded
[00:12:28] as the defense the rules based order, even
[00:12:32] nobody believes that that rules based order ever existed, but for
[00:12:35] sure not now anymore, so I think it
[00:12:38] is in large part the effort
[00:12:42] by some these governments to uphold
[00:12:46] some order which no longer exists and you know they they
[00:12:50] care not at all about what happens to the Palestinians, it's more
[00:12:53] about like "if you look at the reaction to the peace
[00:12:57] Nobel Prize being given to the South African jurist,
[00:13:01] Mrs. Peelei, the European Union
[00:13:05] applauded it, but for sure they only applaude
[00:13:09] to her record of defender of human rights, but they do
[00:13:12] not necessarily include in that the ruling the
[00:13:15] ICC, which named Netanyahu and
[00:13:19] and some other Israeli officials as war criminals
[00:13:23] and and and alike." so I think it's a, I
[00:13:27] think it's a very double faced reaction
[00:13:30] coming from the Europeans. Okay, Miss Larush,
[00:13:34] please stay with us, I'll come back to you for your understanding. I just want to expand
[00:13:38] this discussion with you a number of
[00:13:41] aspects related to this very pressing issue. Sara, coming to you,
[00:13:45] when when we specifically talk about the pattern the
[00:13:49] European countries in particular regard to the
[00:13:53] upholding human rights. international law and the democratic
[00:13:57] norms, there are presidents, historic
[00:14:00] presidents when we talk about how Europe generally
[00:14:04] reacts to an approach and strategy of this
[00:14:08] sort, if that happens, why in your
[00:14:11] understanding Israel gets different sort of a treatment
[00:14:15] despite its atrocities, it has been perpetating
[00:14:19] in Gaza, the expansion of illegal settlements over there in the
[00:14:23] occupied west bank also we also know for fact there is an
[00:14:26] advisory opinion on the part the international court of justice for
[00:14:30] moment keeping ICC
[00:14:32] aside. okay, okay, thank you
[00:14:36] for the question and lot of answers, lot of aspects
[00:14:40] to tackle this question. well,
[00:14:43] let's go back to the European stance on the Israeli
[00:14:47] practices. actually, the Israeli practicing practices
[00:14:51] in on on Gaza and now in the west bank. let not forget the
[00:14:55] israely practices in the west bank now is
[00:14:59] actually japridizing everything that the
[00:15:02] EU as as a block has
[00:15:06] ever and always stood for, because the EU has always
[00:15:09] been seen as the human rights help in in in the
[00:15:13] center the world, well let tell you that there
[00:15:17] is also another part,
[00:15:21] another legal part that um...
[00:15:25] prohibits or maybe holds the EU from
[00:15:28] action against Israel, even though we know that the
[00:15:32] members have different stances, this has lot of
[00:15:36] reasons because ' different EU members,
[00:15:39] European countries within the EU block have different
[00:15:43] strategic interests and trade interests with
[00:15:47] Israel, and as your honorable guest mentioned as
[00:15:51] well and you in in in in your report that yes we
[00:15:55] have EU members who have managed to take stances
[00:15:59] against Israel with their diplomatic weight diplomatic power,
[00:16:03] economic power, because the EU doesn't lack any
[00:16:06] these, what it's really lacks is the unanimity like
[00:16:10] you mentioned, but the popular or
[00:16:13] the public pressure a lot of
[00:16:17] EU members has has been translated into
[00:16:20] parliamentary scrutiny and this is why we have seen
[00:16:24] a lot of movement, yes the EU has
[00:16:28] taken movement, but it lags, it lacks the
[00:16:32] the the way of imposing the measures, for
[00:16:35] instance article two the association
[00:16:39] agreement between the EU as a block and Israel has been provoked
[00:16:43] in early 2025 and
[00:16:46] yes the EU as a block has agreed that
[00:16:50] Israel's praxis or
[00:16:52] Israel's settlement
[00:16:55] expansion is is put into question according to the human
[00:16:59] rights articles that they have agreed upon into the
[00:17:02] association so yes the EU wants to do something even
[00:17:06] though we do have politics of historical
[00:17:09] responsibility within the case of Germany
[00:17:12] and within the EU institutions Germany alone is
[00:17:16] is is is is capable of blocking
[00:17:19] any measures that might be
[00:17:23] translated into more consequence to
[00:17:27] somehow contain Israel's breaches,
[00:17:30] huge violations of human rights, which is
[00:17:34] japardizing EU stances on human rights,
[00:17:38] Actually Israel is putting every
[00:17:42] western country that has ever taken their back now into
[00:17:45] a very crucial
[00:17:48] situation, like no one can ever talk about
[00:17:52] human rights now with all the Israeli practices except of course for
[00:17:56] the US government, so how
[00:17:59] come we are facing this humanitarian
[00:18:03] crisis in Gaza and the west bank
[00:18:06] and "we don't see action from the EU, part
[00:18:10] is legal, and the other part is, of
[00:18:13] course, the EU is also in
[00:18:17] conflict with the US and its power and its
[00:18:20] alliance with Israel, and there is stands
[00:18:24] on defense strategies with the EU, so the
[00:18:27] EU now is actually a a position
[00:18:30] where it cannot do
[00:18:34] more than that against Israel for. the lack
[00:18:38] of instruments, not the lack of weight of power,
[00:18:42] I'll come back to you, sir, you
[00:18:46] have touched upon very important points, I'll come back to you, please stay with us, miss
[00:18:49] Larush, when we try to compare the moves
[00:18:53] on the part the two, for example when we talk about in the case of
[00:18:57] Britain, France and Canada, move regarding putting
[00:19:01] restrictions on the trade which is related to
[00:19:04] illegal settlements, especially when we talk about about the
[00:19:08] occupied west bank now, do we understand
[00:19:12] that they do have a concern when it comes to the west bank
[00:19:16] alone and what about their understanding and
[00:19:20] approach towards what has been done by
[00:19:23] Israel in Gaza in particular over the last more than three
[00:19:27] years, firstly that I want your comparison
[00:19:30] differentiate between their understanding and their concern when it comes to the what is
[00:19:34] going on in the west bank as compared to in Gaza. also keeping
[00:19:38] in view this move, do you think both
[00:19:42] Germany and Italy which have been accused by more than
[00:19:46] 500 former officials including the diplomats,
[00:19:50] could be also coming up with any move of that
[00:19:53] sort, and if not, what is exactly the stumbling
[00:19:57] block when it comes to the German internal politics and
[00:20:01] italian internal politics, does
[00:20:04] this has it to... deal anything
[00:20:08] with the internal politics or the larger national strategic
[00:20:12] interest towards
[00:20:13] Israel? well concerning the
[00:20:17] first of your questions, i think there
[00:20:20] is lot of shared,
[00:20:24] because
[00:20:25] you now the the behavior of Israel in the west
[00:20:29] bank was is about to repeat what
[00:20:33] they did in Gaza, so maybe the the three countries you
[00:20:37] men and want to keep up an appearance,
[00:20:40] that they uphold a shadow
[00:20:44] of international human rights and and international
[00:20:48] law, I don't think... it's very convincing because
[00:20:51] the practically the entire international
[00:20:55] community has done very
[00:20:58] little some even nothing at all to
[00:21:01] stop something which correctly was called by the ICC a
[00:21:05] genocide and you now the the specific
[00:21:09] German situation naturally um I mean obviously
[00:21:13] Germany has the guilt of having
[00:21:16] committed the original genocide but
[00:21:20] "now that does not mean that
[00:21:21] you would give a green light to everything the Israeli
[00:21:25] government does when they are trying sort of echo what the
[00:21:29] Germans did to the Jews, so I think it's the whole
[00:21:33] thing is is completely, I think it
[00:21:37] discredits the European countries, including Canada
[00:21:40] for that matter, I think in the eyes the whole
[00:21:44] world, the behavior of Europe is a complete
[00:21:48] shame, and I know from..." many discussions with
[00:21:51] representatives of countries the global south that the
[00:21:55] reputation of Europe has suffered
[00:21:59] tremendously as result of all of this.
[00:22:03] okay, so I'm curious to
[00:22:06] understand what takes generally the precedence,
[00:22:10] the popular public opinion as in this case, we
[00:22:14] know for fact there is a service that reports unfavor favorable
[00:22:18] opinion of 75%. Italy and
[00:22:21] 73% in Germany,
[00:22:24] which the two takes precedence when it comes
[00:22:27] to chalking out such a
[00:22:30] policy, when it comes to specifically Germany and
[00:22:33] Italy, when there is such a considerable percentage that gives the the
[00:22:37] negative opinion a certain issue as compared to the
[00:22:41] strategic interest of that country with another one. Well, what
[00:22:45] you see in that particular incident, which you can
[00:22:48] also see concerning... different topics, these European
[00:22:52] governments, not so much Miloni, but the German
[00:22:55] government and the French and the British government, their
[00:22:59] supports are down to 10 to
[00:23:02] 20% the support the voters, so the
[00:23:06] overwhelming majority of people do not approve what these
[00:23:10] governments do, however that does not at all have
[00:23:14] influence on the behavior the governments, it's sort of that they could not
[00:23:18] care less, and that shows you that is
[00:23:22] why,
[00:23:22] for example, right now you have
[00:23:25] in the streets of seven European countries, hundreds of
[00:23:28] thousands of people, especially young people, but
[00:23:32] also farmers, truckers and and and trade
[00:23:35] unionists, but especially young people have taken back to the
[00:23:39] streets and the issues are on
[00:23:42] the one side naturally the economic condition, the condition of
[00:23:45] education, but mixed in all of that is total
[00:23:49] disp. movement disapproval over the treatment the
[00:23:52] Palestinians and I think this is
[00:23:55] like
[00:23:58] a an absess wound in the
[00:24:02] European political situation which
[00:24:06] something which can break out any moment a much
[00:24:09] more violent way with what we can see in France
[00:24:13] right now you
[00:24:15] know so people are talking about the repetition of
[00:24:18] 68 you but the content is this
[00:24:21] time much more moral, it is not about
[00:24:25] sexual freedom or something else which the 68
[00:24:29] movement was known for, but
[00:24:31] it is on more fundamental issues that people have a sense that
[00:24:35] the governments are not respecting the will the
[00:24:39] people, and the issue on Palestine is is
[00:24:42] one very crucial element of that, but you have seen it in
[00:24:46] the last two years that the governments both in the United States and in
[00:24:50] Europe have taken extremely repressive
[00:24:54] measures against the students which were demonstrating,
[00:24:57] accusing them of antisemitism, which you'm
[00:25:01] not excluding that here and there there may have been a case where
[00:25:04] somebody was anti-semitic, but in general it is not
[00:25:08] anti-semitism if you oppose the policy the government of
[00:25:12] Israel and you defend the life the Palestinians who are being
[00:25:16] slaughtered, so this argument of antiseem.
[00:25:21] in my view
[00:25:22] and my experience is being
[00:25:24] instrumentalized to to basically you
[00:25:28] keep control, because if you accuse germans of being anti-semitic
[00:25:32] natural, you have the entire historical guilt,
[00:25:35] and
[00:25:36] you can immediately any kind of discussion, but in
[00:25:40] reality
[00:25:41] it is instrument to suppress the
[00:25:44] justified protest the people, especially young people and
[00:25:48] students against.
[00:25:55] I get your point, your point is well taken, Mr. Larush, Sarah,
[00:25:58] when we talk about these more than 500 former European.
[00:26:03] officials including the diplomats, I want your understanding,
[00:26:07] do we take it as a scathing censure when it comes
[00:26:11] to the general policies of Germany and Italy towards Israel
[00:26:15] after what it has done in the occupied Palestinian territories over the last many years
[00:26:18] is concerned also with the mounting public pressure with the
[00:26:22] percentages that I have already mentioned both in Germany and
[00:26:25] Italy, do you think it's going to mountain ample
[00:26:29] pressure when it comes to formulating or chalking? about new
[00:26:33] perhaps a new strategy towards Israel is concerned of both these
[00:26:36] countries or in the if that doesn't
[00:26:40] happen to be the case that's going to
[00:26:44] affect the ruling parties within both these countries
[00:26:47] in the electoral politics in the
[00:26:50] future. well actually
[00:26:53] pressure has been a
[00:26:55] critical factor in
[00:26:59] in in in the recent events in relation to... to
[00:27:02] gaza and Israel's practices especially in Europe,
[00:27:06] okay? first, Europe has always been geographically
[00:27:10] close to our region, that's
[00:27:12] one thing. second, Europe itself has
[00:27:16] faced
[00:27:16] a lot of wars, humanitarian
[00:27:20] crisis, lot of European
[00:27:24] problems have been actually sorted
[00:27:27] out by self-determination, so there are
[00:27:31] we have now... about 15 EU member states that
[00:27:35] recognizes Palestine, well more
[00:27:38] pressure, more EU, I would say more EU pressure
[00:27:42] on Germany and
[00:27:44] Italy in the time being
[00:27:48] um would be tested, this is one thing, we will see
[00:27:52] if politics and human rights and every
[00:27:55] stance the EU as a block would now
[00:27:59] succeed to represent itself its...
[00:28:03] it representing here the the German
[00:28:06] government and the Italian one, okay,
[00:28:10] so I think more EU, EU pressure,
[00:28:14] okay, for the future of EU principles and
[00:28:17] values and one huge principle and value
[00:28:21] the EU is human rights, so the EU as a
[00:28:25] unified block cannot agree on
[00:28:28] the imposing the right measure.
[00:28:33] to hold Israel from its practices, okay, that's
[00:28:36] like of unanimity, the EU is not a unitary state,
[00:28:40] okay, we understand that, we do really
[00:28:44] appreciate the, if we can say
[00:28:47] it, the unilateral movements from some European countries
[00:28:51] like Spain, France recognizing Palestine for France is
[00:28:55] huge step, we have seen it here in the
[00:28:58] in the region as a huge step, we have got Europe on our side,
[00:29:02] in the Palestinian case, well maybe more EU
[00:29:06] pressure and maybe more
[00:29:09] reshaping the principles the EU, especially
[00:29:13] with the rise of the right, the right
[00:29:16] movements in point Sara, I get your point, I'll come back to you, Miss
[00:29:20] Larush would be specific to, you already refer to the policy of Spain,
[00:29:24] now Spain and Ireland have pushed for the review the EU Israels
[00:29:28] association agreements, human rights obligations,
[00:29:32] do we understands going to considerably put a pressure when it comes to the
[00:29:35] preferential trade
[00:29:37] arrangements? yes, I
[00:29:41] think so. I think that the Spanish
[00:29:44] position, as I already said, in my view, is the only
[00:29:48] one which uh upholds any standard of
[00:29:51] international law, and I think a lot will
[00:29:55] really depend on on the future
[00:29:58] mobilizations, like the 500 diplomats,
[00:30:04] and I think we we are a crisis, I mean I
[00:30:07] think what what cortains this particular question
[00:30:11] of Israel, Palestine, the
[00:30:14] genocide,
[00:30:16] it is taking place in the context that the entire
[00:30:20] international law is questioned, I mean if the
[00:30:24] president the United States says he does not need international
[00:30:27] law if
[00:30:29] you know the entire.
[00:30:32] of of law is not being uphold, you can make sanctions against the
[00:30:36] ICC for ruling on something which is absolutely in
[00:30:40] their duty and and obligation to rule, we are
[00:30:44] looking a lawless situation, and I think that
[00:30:48] is why I have
[00:30:49] been arguing for the last several years that we
[00:30:52] urgently need new international security architecture,
[00:30:56] because international law and the the order, as it...