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20261012 150000 UTC
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[00:00:11] Hello and good evening, you watching Pakistan TV and I am Rafe
[00:00:14] of Sohel with the headlines
[00:00:15] of the hour. Let's have
[00:00:16] look.
[00:00:25] of of
[00:00:27] of
[00:00:33] Deputy prime minister and foreign
[00:00:34] of
[00:00:35] of minister says Pakistan is committed to the complete elimination of
[00:00:38] terrorism and demands Afghan Taliban regime to stop all support
[00:00:42] to terrorists. Addressing counter terrorism
[00:00:45] in conference
[00:00:45] of dar stresses that attacks originating from Afghan soil must end and
[00:00:49] world
[00:00:49] of must acknowledge Pakistan's
[00:00:51] sacrifices.
[00:00:57] of
[00:00:58] of Federal Minister for Information. broadcasting says
[00:01:01] Pakistan is facing the major challenge of
[00:01:04] of terrorism and extremism. addressing the
[00:01:06] in conference on counter terrorism, the minister said thousands of terrorists are living in safe
[00:01:10] havens on Afghan
[00:01:14] of soil.
[00:01:18] of governor Pakhtunkha, faisal karem kundi and interior minister
[00:01:22] milsan says eradicating terrorism is the government's top
[00:01:25] priority,
[00:01:26] of stressing that the fight against terrorism cannot be one without the... provincial
[00:01:30] government taking the
[00:01:31] lead,
[00:01:41] of chief
[00:01:44] of the joint chiefs of staff of brazil's arm forces,
[00:01:48] admiral renato rodriguez calls on field marshall
[00:01:51] sayyad
[00:01:52] assim munir at GHQ to discuss regional security and enhanced
[00:01:56] defense cooperation.
[00:02:05] A Pakistani national has been killed and 11 others wounded in a
[00:02:09] fresh hoothi strike on Riyadh's international
[00:02:12] airport.
[00:02:19] in of Iran is of reviewing
[00:02:22] Washington's response to its hermu proposal saying reopening the
[00:02:26] straight and restoring security must be prioritized as diplomate.
[00:02:30] contacts continue through
[00:02:32] mediators.
[00:02:37] of Oil prices rose on Monday as the
[00:02:41] Huty strikes on Saudi Arabia and attacks on two tankers raised
[00:02:45] supply concerns with brand crede climbing to
[00:02:48] 105.48 a barrel and US crude
[00:02:51] reaching
[00:02:52] of 92.44.
[00:03:00] At least six people have been killed and nine others injured in separate
[00:03:04] Russian strikes on Ukraine, raising fresh concerns about the effectiveness
[00:03:08] of an energy cease fire announced by US President Donald
[00:03:12] Trump.
[00:03:47] of I
[00:03:51] am Raf Sohal and those were the headlines
[00:03:53] of the on Pakistan TV. Keep
[00:03:54] watching.
[00:04:52] Pakistan TV team
[00:04:53] of is here at the Beijing Capital International
[00:04:56] airport.
[00:05:02] where the new generation decides the next chapter of
[00:05:05] Bangladesh.
[00:06:14] this is beyond borders and I am Umar Khalid, but during the course the show, as is the norm will take you into
[00:06:18] a world which we consider without borders or boundaries and discuss issues, stories that
[00:06:22] are pertinent rather in this changing 21st century scenario. We'll
[00:06:25] begin with the top stories the day or as we call them, region
[00:06:29] lines.
[00:06:33] We start from the middle east where Saudi Arabia is facing renewed hoothi attacks with deadly
[00:06:37] strikes targeting king Khalid international airport in Riyadh causing civilian
[00:06:41] casualties and injure. during hundreds, the latest attack marks the second
[00:06:45] strike on the Saudi Capitals international airport in two days. Meanwhile,
[00:06:49] the R4 group comprising Pakistan, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and
[00:06:52] Turkey strongly condemy attacks on the kingdom of Saudi Arabia,
[00:06:56] including strikes on King Khalid international airport that have caused civilian casualties and
[00:07:00] has damaged
[00:07:00] infrastructure.
[00:07:06] Moving on, the United Nations Development programs that developing countries face a triple
[00:07:10] economic shock from soaring energy price. is extreme alnino weather and
[00:07:14] rising borrowing costs, which could push millions back into poverty.
[00:07:18] UNDP chief Alexander the crew urges urgent
[00:07:22] international support warning that mounting debt is leaving developing countries with fewer
[00:07:26] resources to protect a vulnerable
[00:07:28] people.
[00:07:35] And finally, security forces kill terrorists in intelligence based operation in Bannu
[00:07:39] under the Azme Iskam Vision, addressing a counter terrorism. Deputy prime
[00:07:43] minister reiterates Pakistan's commitment to eliminating terrorism,
[00:07:46] urging the Afghan Taliban regime to end support for
[00:07:49] terrorists.
[00:07:57] We begin with the Middle East and North Africa where Saudi
[00:08:01] Arabia is facing a dangerous escalation as repeated Huthi attacks
[00:08:04] target civilian airports. Saturday strike on King Khalid international airport in
[00:08:08] Riyadh has killed at least 13 people and has injured more than 300.
[00:08:12] others another attack on Sunday killed a Pakistani resident and wounded
[00:08:16] 11 others. Passengers including pilgrims have been caught in the
[00:08:20] violence while airport operations remain suspended.
[00:08:23] Pakistan, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey have all jointly
[00:08:27] condemned the attacks, demanding the immediate hold and have back the kingdom's right to protect
[00:08:31] its people and sovereinity. President Donald Trump is considering joining
[00:08:35] Saudi strikes against the Hutis while it's not show for the moment, but Britain
[00:08:39] is also examining additional support. Iran meanwhile has offered to facilitate
[00:08:43] dialogue with international flights disrupted and vital shipping routes
[00:08:47] under threat, how can Saudi Arabia and its partners stop these attacks, protect
[00:08:50] civilians and restore regional stability. to discuss that and
[00:08:54] more, we have been joined by Fatima Abulas
[00:08:58] father who is a Yemani policy analyst and non-resident fellow at the Arab Gulf
[00:09:02] States
[00:09:21] by attacking riyadh and aba airports, killing civilians, not
[00:09:25] once but more than once and endangering pilgrims, what in
[00:09:28] your point of view, fatima are the hoot is trying to achieve and how
[00:09:32] in your point of view can they ever justify such
[00:09:42] is how... pursued this strategy for very long
[00:09:45] time,
[00:09:46] for over decade, whenever they feel that they want
[00:09:50] to have any type of gains on the ground in Yemen, they
[00:09:54] immediately turn to threatening Saudis
[00:09:58] because they back the Yemini government of Yemen, the international Yemani government of
[00:10:01] Yemen. Heuti's ultimate objective is to dominate
[00:10:05] the entire country, but also to position
[00:10:08] themselves in Babel mandab to secure
[00:10:11] that, because it gives them leverage, it gives
[00:10:15] rather, it gives
[00:10:17] the Tehran leverage over another choke point, that
[00:10:21] way both hormos and Babel Mandab would be
[00:10:25] under the direct control of
[00:10:29] Iran through thehies, so um,
[00:10:33] in in this instance, because the
[00:10:36] government conducted a counter offensive with the
[00:10:40] backing of Saudi Arabia to take back
[00:10:44] Babel mandab straight, which the Housies took
[00:10:48] over in September, that sort
[00:10:51] of was was one the catalysts to this issue, but
[00:10:55] also think that there's a there's a broader argument also
[00:10:58] to be made in terms the regional level and
[00:11:02] escalation is that
[00:11:05] the the Islamic Republic regime in Iran
[00:11:09] doesn't doesn't want to suffer more
[00:11:12] economic costs because the war that Washington has
[00:11:16] imposed on on Iran and it's it's lashing out
[00:11:20] in the same way that it lashed out at the beginning the conflict through imposing
[00:11:24] more costs. the region and the his are one way to
[00:11:28] impose these costs, so I think that's that's sort of like the
[00:11:31] picture inside the picture, so they launched the
[00:11:35] ballistic missiles to
[00:11:39] Saudi infrastructure through the His in
[00:11:43] order to manufacture that kind of political leverage that you
[00:11:46] need. All right, I'd also like to understand two more
[00:11:50] things, despite earlier military campaigns, Hutis do
[00:11:54] retain. as per the reports, long range missiles as as well as drones that he have
[00:11:58] used as well, what immediate support in your point you
[00:12:02] view would help the kingdom of Saudi Arabia protects its airports and
[00:12:06] stop further attacks from the hoothies, also a fighting continuing
[00:12:10] around Mokha and Iran uh offering
[00:12:14] dialogue at the same time, because you did talk about Iran and Iran has
[00:12:17] supposedly offered a dialogue to end this conflict, what
[00:12:21] would make diplomacy credible in order to move? in the
[00:12:25] right direction because we have seen in the previous times whenever there has
[00:12:29] been a negotiate settlement, it has not
[00:12:31] ended feasibly, let's say that with all
[00:12:35] the partners. secure, how can secure and
[00:12:39] immediate hall to attacks happen while protecting
[00:12:42] civilians both in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and in
[00:12:45] Yemen? so to answer
[00:12:48] your first question
[00:12:50] in terms of how can the kingdom protect itself and what can be
[00:12:54] done because intercept interceptors and
[00:12:58] patriot batteries can handle incoming
[00:13:01] salvos, but they do not solve the problem at the source, and
[00:13:05] I think Saudi Arabia has had enough
[00:13:09] and it wants to solve the problem at the source, so this
[00:13:13] means um three things, it means that you have
[00:13:17] to have real time intelligence um in order
[00:13:20] to be able to track the launchers that the his use.
[00:13:25] um, even to track
[00:13:27] the the assembly sites before they launch, and the second
[00:13:31] is to cut off the Iranian maritime
[00:13:35] supply and smuggling networks in the Gulf of
[00:13:38] Aiden and in the Red Sea, that's extremely
[00:13:42] important because they supply missile
[00:13:45] guidance packages and and drone components, and we have seen
[00:13:49] interception for that by Yemani government and Samcom
[00:13:53] and there needs to be... stricter measures
[00:13:56] enforced as well, and the third is is direct support
[00:14:00] also for Yemen government forces that are
[00:14:03] working to roll back the hi advances and
[00:14:07] ensure that they're not also terrorizing the people inside.
[00:14:11] key component the Houti strategy is
[00:14:14] ensuring that the people of Yemen themselves are
[00:14:18] incircled are blocated as we are seeing currently in
[00:14:22] the city of tas which sits across from
[00:14:25] mandab and up in the highland of
[00:14:29] course, and it's still strategically very important, but it
[00:14:32] has three million people in the governorate and 1.5
[00:14:36] million people inside the city who
[00:14:40] are resisting
[00:14:54] that they have continuously failing, they
[00:14:58] need to be conducted in good faith. can an agreement
[00:15:01] happen? of course, an agreement can happen, but the question is what is the
[00:15:05] price? in my opinion, any immediate agreement
[00:15:09] on the short term is going to be a
[00:15:11] compromise, the saudis
[00:15:15] might be able to give thehis and Iran
[00:15:19] um one or two of what they're
[00:15:22] asking, one, whatever they're asking. for,
[00:15:26] but um, ultimately the saudi kingdom ends up paying the price for this,
[00:15:30] and then the region and the red security and global
[00:15:33] shipping, because the his in Iran have shown that they don't
[00:15:38] have the appetite for continuous
[00:15:42] deescalation, whatever sees fire you're going to have is going to be
[00:15:45] temporary, whatever deal you're going to have is going to be temporary, and we
[00:15:49] know this because the Beijing
[00:15:53] agreement that happened between Saudi Arabia and
[00:15:56] Tehran, and despite that
[00:15:59] facilitation, despite the years the taunt that
[00:16:03] that Saudi enjoyed as well as the tant.
[00:16:07] with the houties because houties ultimately stopped their cross
[00:16:11] border attacks into Saudi Arabia,
[00:16:14] um, things were going fine, in fact Saudi did
[00:16:18] not want to take part in
[00:16:21] operation, any the operations, whether it was Ruff Rider or
[00:16:25] the current operation on on Iran
[00:16:29] with with operation Epic Fury, so it
[00:16:32] stayed out of out of it, but it still got punished
[00:16:36] by Tahran and it still got punished by the
[00:16:39] hoothies, so the the there's a lesson I think that
[00:16:43] the that the Saudi kingdom learned is that the threat is just
[00:16:47] growing bigger from the hies and that there needs to
[00:16:51] be a will to stop it, and and this push
[00:16:55] that we saw in terms the counter offensive in Babel
[00:16:58] Mandab demonstrated that, because they backed
[00:17:02] the the southern giant brigades forces and
[00:17:06] they were able. to push the hoothi ground
[00:17:09] forces from the ground, but
[00:17:13] honestly the the the hoothi problem is just not
[00:17:16] gonna go away easily because the asymmetric
[00:17:20] nature of this warfare i agree with you on the fact that the Hothi problem is not going
[00:17:24] to go away as very quickly because
[00:17:25] it is a problem that has been remaining in the area since very
[00:17:29] long time, it is only exacerbated very recently, especially against the kingdom of
[00:17:33] Saudi Arabia and you talk about will, I think the will is very important, the will to stop
[00:17:37] it and the will from the other side also the huti side
[00:17:41] to look for negotiated solution. we have been talking to fatima
[00:17:44] abu al-asrar and we have been discussing the deadly hoothi
[00:17:48] attacks on
[00:17:49] the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, what is the condemnation and what are the regional implications? we've
[00:17:52] been talking about you know the different issues pertaining
[00:17:56] to it, the attack on riyadh and abha airports,
[00:17:58] the killing of civilians and injuring of pilgrims and what the hoties are
[00:18:02] trying to achieve and how they can justify it and of course also
[00:18:06] the long missiles and drones
[00:18:08] that the hoothies are retaining,
[00:18:09] what is the support that could help this of Saudi Arabia
[00:18:12] prevent such attacks in the future as well, and of course the dialogue that
[00:18:16] Iran has offered, will it lead to some kind of a tangible solution as far
[00:18:20] as the whole issue is
[00:18:28] Pakistan, the R4 group and other international partners have
[00:18:31] condemned these strikes, have been statements that have come, what concrete
[00:18:35] action should follow to hold? the hoot is accountable and defend the
[00:18:39] kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[00:18:41] um
[00:18:43] so condemnations and public
[00:18:46] diplomacy is is fine and I think that's a
[00:18:50] good message to show that um there is
[00:18:53] there is enough concern about the hoouti's actions and the
[00:18:57] consequences that are happening but also real
[00:19:01] enforcement means turning these diplomatic
[00:19:04] statements into some type of an op
[00:19:07] operation: so the first thing that comes to mind is
[00:19:11] maritime interdiction, because Pakistan has an
[00:19:15] active naval posture in the Arabian sea, so that
[00:19:18] capability could translate favorably into
[00:19:22] shared maritime, tracking and and
[00:19:26] boarding operations against any type of ilicit Iranian
[00:19:29] dows supplying the yemy coast, so
[00:19:33] this smuggling activity is the one that's allowing the...
[00:19:37] toties to continue having this aggressive posture
[00:19:41] without it they would be somewhat isolated and then of
[00:19:45] course financial logistic
[00:19:48] disruption is also important and supporting
[00:19:52] yemeny government forces and i don't mean by
[00:19:56] ground forces but arial
[00:19:59] support is important continuing to also
[00:20:03] defend the kingdom because with thehi strategy
[00:20:07] is is to impose costs on multiple
[00:20:11] fronts, so not only are they attacking internally in
[00:20:15] Yemen, but they're also attacking the Saudi
[00:20:18] kingdom in order to get it bogged
[00:20:22] down in in its own conflict as opposed
[00:20:26] to just protecting the Yemeni
[00:20:29] government and Yemani land as well
[00:20:33] from the Housi encrouchment and and conquest.
[00:20:37] so all of that is important, surveillance is important and
[00:20:41] United States is continuing to also provide
[00:20:44] intelligence, but surveillance along the Indian Ocean
[00:20:48] is is... is
[00:20:51] is is important as well because it directly impacts gulf
[00:20:55] operations and smuggling
[00:20:57] networks, so that they are tracked before they
[00:21:01] actually reached their intended
[00:21:10] donald trump says he is considering
[00:21:13] joining, the defensive action that the king
[00:21:17] of Saudi Arabia is doing against the hoothies, the... kingdom has also
[00:21:20] in interest in helping the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, how
[00:21:24] important will this help be for the kingdom if and when this happens
[00:21:28] also flights are suspended and of course the shipping is
[00:21:32] threatened through both the babal mandab, the state of hormos and the suas
[00:21:35] canal, how serious are the risks to Saudi investment, to global
[00:21:39] energy prices and to food
[00:21:48] if the United States intends to enter the war as well
[00:21:52] as as the United Kingdom and support uh for the
[00:21:56] Saudi kingdom any way, um, that is a
[00:22:00] strong deterrant for the Hithis, they are really
[00:22:03] concerned of widening the war, um, they can
[00:22:07] do low asymmetry type of warfare, but it
[00:22:11] also sends a message that Saudi Arabia is
[00:22:14] willing to to is not going to be be
[00:22:18] bullied by their blackmail, by their
[00:22:22] terrorism blackmail, so it sends that message and it
[00:22:26] it makes his recalculate their position, it
[00:22:30] makes Tehran recalculate its position until things calm
[00:22:33] down somehow, but it nothing, nothing
[00:22:37] really concerns the hoothies and Tahran as much as a
[00:22:41] coalition to act, because with a coalition there's
[00:22:44] coordination, there is increasing pressure,
[00:22:48] and and more... focus on how the his
[00:22:51] and Tehran are conducting their
[00:22:54] strategy now with with regards
[00:22:58] to the economic hits
[00:23:01] and and investment shocks that Saudi
[00:23:05] Arabia could be subjected to, that's definitely the end game
[00:23:08] thehis, the Hutis have nothing to lose,
[00:23:12] so part of how they force
[00:23:16] themselves on the international arena and how they want to...
[00:23:20] negotiations with the saudis is through
[00:23:23] economic, they've done the same play
[00:23:26] with
[00:23:31] the thing is
[00:23:33] the this this strategy ultimately ends up
[00:23:37] disrupting of course saudi investments, but
[00:23:41] also has the damage is multiaceted, the damage is
[00:23:44] multifaset, as you said, it's on the economy, it's
[00:23:47] on all the investments that the king of... is doing and it had
[00:23:51] lot of investments as part of its vision 2030 as
[00:23:54] well and know the whole effect of
[00:24:12] as you have seen my discussion with fatima abu alasrar
[00:24:16] we have talked about shipping threaten through babal mandab and hormos we have talked to
[00:24:20] risks to Saudi investment, global energy prices and food supplies, we've
[00:24:24] talked about how the US and the United Kingdom are interested
[00:24:27] in joining forces with the kingdom of Saudi
[00:24:31] Arabia
[00:25:03] Now moving to the west, developing countries are facing three shocks at
[00:25:07] once: rising energy prices, extreme weather linked to Elnino
[00:25:11] and higher borrowing costs. The United Nations Development program wants that
[00:25:15] governments are running out of money to protect struggling families,
[00:25:18] as the world financial leader. is meet in Bangkok, what urgent help can prevent
[00:25:22] millions from falling into poverty is what we will ask our guest tonight,
[00:25:26] Dr. Samuel Risk, resident representative, UNDP,
[00:25:29] Pakistan. Sam,
[00:25:36] Now, UNDP's report, no time to recover warns that energy
[00:25:40] costs, climate shocks and expensive borrowing are hitting together
[00:25:44] with conditions possibly worsening into spring. Why is this
[00:25:47] combination so dangerous in your point of view and where? is Pakistan most exposed
[00:25:51] among all
[00:26:00] so I think it's a very, it's a very important and... and timely question
[00:26:04] as as the annual meetings are in Bangkok, our
[00:26:07] administrator, everybody else in the development world, the world bank, the IMF are
[00:26:11] there and they're discussing this this very issue, now
[00:26:15] if you recall two or three years ago we were talking about a combination of
[00:26:19] crises that all hovered around the seas, cost of
[00:26:23] living, COVID, conflict and climate change, and I think
[00:26:27] this was where a lot the language around the poly crisis started to to
[00:26:30] come out now. as of this spring there's quite
[00:26:34] a lot of disruption that is happening obviously because the war in the middle east
[00:26:38] and I think the three reports that came out successively since
[00:26:42] then the first one focused on human
[00:26:46] development impacts, the second was was on cushioning the global
[00:26:49] shock and then this this third one I think raises the biggest
[00:26:52] alarm which you outlined which is there is no time to
[00:26:56] recover when when multiple shocks happen
[00:27:00] at the same time in developing countries. It becomes pretty clear that
[00:27:04] this no time to recover is really quite difficult and it
[00:27:07] exposes some fundamental issues around global
[00:27:11] development and climate financing that are, I think important. Now let's
[00:27:15] take Pakistan for second, if you look at the report, it
[00:27:19] talks about
[00:27:20] energy, it talks about
[00:27:24] climate change, and it talks about the cost of
[00:27:27] borrowing, all these things are actually critical as we
[00:27:31] speak. for Pakistan, Pakistan
[00:27:34] imports most of its oil, it comes to the Middle East, 80
[00:27:38] plus percent of that, immediate shock, it didn't take
[00:27:42] two or three months or four months for that to
[00:27:44] materialize and for it to have an impact on
[00:27:48] on common people here. Fuel prices went up
[00:27:51] 25%, where do people get this money? They stop spending on
[00:27:55] other things, probably education, probably health,
[00:27:59] etc. and and wages are not, going up,
[00:28:03] so you asked the question, maybe I'll come to that, who is the most
[00:28:06] vulnerable when this combination of shocks actually takes
[00:28:14] critical, you add climate change and inho, then you put all
[00:28:17] the agriculture sector, too much water, too little water
[00:28:21] any given year, you know, one or two weeks late
[00:28:25] in in either planting or harvesting becomes a
[00:28:28] problem, energy vulnerable community.
[00:28:32] and then public finance as well and that maybe is the
[00:28:36] is the third part and we can talk some more about that is okay
[00:28:41] are so if all these things not happen resilient
[00:28:41] people and the system itself cannot afford
[00:28:45] to absorb these crisis and now scrambles for money
[00:28:49] where does that come from if countries like Pakistan
[00:28:53] have to pay half almost half their federal budget towards death
[00:28:56] servicing that is true I mean that and so much more and of
[00:29:00] course the crisis that the world is... in the region as well is of course affecting
[00:29:04] countries such as Pakistan. Samuel, with oil that is above 100
[00:29:08] US dollars a barrel, the UNDP estimates that a
[00:29:12] government support has prevented around
[00:29:15] 130 million additional people from falling into
[00:29:19] the poverty circle. as that money is running out and will run out
[00:29:22] very quickly, how can countries protect the struggling
[00:29:26] families in your point of view from higher fuel, higher electricity and higher
[00:29:30] food prices without taking on
[00:29:33] unsustainable
[00:29:46] past few months, the government has already implemented twice
[00:29:49] austerity measures and has added
[00:29:52] subsidies. Now, I think the thing that that this particular
[00:29:56] report focuses on is the difference between blanket subsidies for
[00:30:00] everyone, that of course, financing institutions and
[00:30:03] lenders don't really look favorably upon, and targeted
[00:30:07] subsidies that actually address the most vulnerable, including the ones that I mentioned
[00:30:11] to you, and the duration as well, so it's
[00:30:14] not long term, it always needs to be short term,
[00:30:17] and I think that's the critical issue
[00:30:19] here, the what what the government is able to inject
[00:30:23] in terms of subsidy of social protection immediate,
[00:30:27] like for fuel,
[00:30:28] for example, that happened in the last few months, I think that's fine. but
[00:30:32] the question is what happens after the next after
[00:30:36] few months, you can see for example
[00:30:40] that overall around the world over the last couple of
[00:30:43] years, there are nearly one billion, one billion
[00:30:47] people in the entire world population that are most
[00:30:51] vulnerable and becoming even poorer as we speak, the majority
[00:30:55] of which because these multiple crises
[00:30:58] are in...