RECORDNEWS — broadcast
20260915 203000 UTC
536 transcript segments
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[00:04:02] on Link News, following the session of the Supreme Court
[00:04:05] that will define whether Alexandre de Moraes
[00:04:09] will be investigated by the Court? Let's follow the
[00:04:12] compartmentalization of information, it could be nothing,
[00:04:15] but something robust
[00:04:18] could come, I understand, making a prior
[00:04:21] value judgment that it did not come
[00:04:23] in relation to the Attorney General
[00:04:27] and I did so based
[00:04:30] on two provisions of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the judge of
[00:04:34] guarantees,
[00:04:37] the judge of guarantees that we judged in this plenary of the
[00:04:40] Supreme Federal Court, he
[00:04:44] says article 3a
[00:04:47] of
[00:04:54] the judge of
[00:04:55] guarantees,
[00:04:59] sorry.
[00:05:04] Article 3A, it ended up having a
[00:05:08] conform interpretation with the Constitution, in the
[00:05:11] judgment. that we deliberated in this
[00:05:15] Supreme Federal Court, essentially saying that
[00:05:19] the fact that it
[00:05:22] was foreseen that the accusatory model must be respected,
[00:05:26] this does not prevent the judge from
[00:05:29] making requests or requesting diligence
[00:05:32] and article 3b, item
[00:05:36] 10 expressly
[00:05:38] states
[00:05:41] that the judge... In the analysis of his, in the
[00:05:45] performance of his responsibility, the
[00:05:48] judge of guarantees is responsible for the
[00:05:51] legality control of the criminal investigation and
[00:05:54] for safeguarding individual rights, whose
[00:05:58] franchise has been reserved for prior authorization of the
[00:06:01] judiciary, being competent, especially, item
[00:06:05] 10, to request documents
[00:06:08] and reports and information from the police
[00:06:11] chief. about the progress of
[00:06:14] the investigations and it was strictly this that
[00:06:18] I asked, strictly this, at
[00:06:22] least Minister Alexandre himself, Minister Flávio
[00:06:25] Dino, and Minister Cristiano
[00:06:29] Zanin, said in their
[00:06:32] pronouncements so far, we don't have a clear
[00:06:35] procedure,
[00:06:38] we don't exactly know how to proceed, what was the
[00:06:42] only... security I had was to follow the Supreme's precedent
[00:06:45] regarding the judges of guarantees,
[00:06:48] not because of Minister Alexandre, but because
[00:06:51] of a situation that could, in theory,
[00:06:55] implicate or not, the Attorney General of the
[00:06:57] Republic, I strictly
[00:07:00] complied with the Supreme Court's
[00:07:03] precedent, until recently
[00:07:07] in these discussions
[00:07:10] there was.
[00:07:12] an announcement of an article signed by three great
[00:07:15] lawyers and associated jurists of
[00:07:19] IASP, Dr. Toron,
[00:07:22] Dr. Hamilton Dias de Souza, Dr. and
[00:07:26] professor at USP, Renato de Melo, Jorge
[00:07:28] Silveira, in this article
[00:07:32] published,
[00:07:35] if I'm not mistaken, in Folha de São Paulo,
[00:07:38] yes, in Folha de São Paulo.
[00:07:42] Eminent jurists say: it can be argued that once
[00:07:45] identified, once the interlocutor is identified, the
[00:07:48] investigation should have ceased, but the
[00:07:51] contrary thesis is serious, an
[00:07:54] isolated communication can be misleading and requires context, that's what
[00:07:58] was needed, what is the context of this conversation? who is the
[00:08:01] interlocutor, is it a lawyer, is it a third party? I
[00:08:05] myself was surprised during these issues with a
[00:08:08] lawyer, in quotes, selling
[00:08:11] influence. I had gone to buy a suit, I had to present a receipt,
[00:08:15] I had to present my
[00:08:18] credit card bill from 2 years ago that I had to look
[00:08:22] for to say: no, I paid for my
[00:08:26] clothes, out of context
[00:08:29] statements can generate
[00:08:32] pretexts, and we cannot have
[00:08:35] pretexts, for example, I understand that
[00:08:39] there would be pretext
[00:08:43] the Attorney General, from the elements that I have, it would be a
[00:08:46] pretext,
[00:08:49] very clear, there is none, oh,
[00:08:53] participated in an event, okay, this is something that,
[00:08:56] in quotes, all of us, to some extent, are in social
[00:09:00] situations, now what I
[00:09:04] imagined would be in relation
[00:09:07] to the people who had the identification there, comes
[00:09:10] a... more abundant
[00:09:13] argumentation that we need to analyze
[00:09:17] and in fact I made no value
[00:09:20] judgment, I forwarded and should
[00:09:23] forward, that's
[00:09:26] why
[00:09:29] I understand that we are here to analyze this
[00:09:32] question, now
[00:09:35] a procedure was adopted based on the
[00:09:38] precedents and in a situation
[00:09:42] of... a fact that was not in the documents, in any
[00:09:46] specific document, an
[00:09:48] express reference to Minister
[00:09:51] Alexandre,
[00:09:54] thank you, before the break and before the Attorney General, it's the last
[00:09:57] statement, I just checked the time, maybe we should
[00:10:01] continue, because at this point to take a
[00:10:04] break and there are two votes left to be
[00:10:08] cast, the statement of Dr. Paulo
[00:10:10] that I already announced for the third time.
[00:10:14] President, look, the debates show more and more the
[00:10:18] connection, the need for everything to be
[00:10:21] properly investigated together. Minister.
[00:10:25] André said, open quotes, my
[00:10:28] advisors brought two messages without
[00:10:31] identification, pardon Minister
[00:10:34] brought, let's go, they brought information from the
[00:10:37] information, this from the
[00:10:40] documents, analyze if there's anything pending for us
[00:10:43] to evaluate, and this President and uh shows
[00:10:46] the selectivity, because all of them allow me
[00:10:50] to continue, I listened with full attention to your Excellency, your Excellency has
[00:10:54] the floor to speak. This, this confirms President
[00:10:57] report
[00:11:01] uh stated and here I repeat the need to hear
[00:11:05] who spoke the differentiated treatment between authorities of equal
[00:11:08] situation, different from what was stated when the advancement
[00:11:12] of lines related to different authorities reached by the
[00:11:16] complicity operation zero, despite
[00:11:19] similarity of stage of elements. As for Minister
[00:11:22] Alexandre de Moraes, the rapporteur's speech. denotes
[00:11:25] interest in the beginning of a formal investigation against
[00:11:28] him, having requested more than once that the
[00:11:32] investigation team forward some
[00:11:35] provocation to him in this regard, since no
[00:11:39] provocation was forwarded, because there was
[00:11:41] nothing, neither from the police nor from the Attorney
[00:11:44] General, my advisors brought,
[00:11:48] that is, an investigation ex officio here,
[00:11:51] Mr. President, before handing over to your Excellency,
[00:11:55] look,
[00:11:57] just look at the IPJ and understand a little
[00:12:01] about technology, there is no
[00:12:04] message that refers to Paulo and Andrei,
[00:12:08] there is a text of notes in the notepad
[00:12:11] that by inference is inferred to have
[00:12:15] become a message, there is no message
[00:12:18] on the seized cell phone and we are
[00:12:22] now uh with the cell phone too, thank you.
[00:12:25] President, President, I need, excuse me, I know time,
[00:12:28] sorry, Dr. Paulo, I propose, of course I will grant your
[00:12:32] Excellency the floor, but as we are deciding here, I know that the topics
[00:12:36] end up being intertwined, I will hear your Excellency, then the
[00:12:40] Attorney General of the Republic with the permission of the other colleagues, who makes
[00:12:44] a preliminary analysis of the issues that are in the processes are the advisors, the
[00:12:47] minister doesn't have time to keep
[00:12:50] analyzing, no one went to look for information, we
[00:12:53] have the documents. we have the records and we have to analyze the
[00:12:56] records, that's what we
[00:12:59] have, the IPJs do make
[00:13:02] references, forgive me, Dr. Paulo,
[00:13:06] but they make express references to your Excellency's name, to Andrei
[00:13:10] Rodrigues' name, it says that it probably
[00:13:13] would be Your Excellency and Andrei
[00:13:16] Rodrigues, but they do it in the notepad, there
[00:13:20] is no, there is no screenshot of the message,
[00:13:24] it doesn't exist. not in the screenshot, Minister Alexandre, let me get here
[00:13:28] from the notepad, just read the IPJ calmly, I'll get
[00:13:32] it later while my colleagues vote, I'll bring your thank you very much
[00:13:35] Of course, Dr. Paulo, although your Excellency did not make the
[00:13:39] statement, but I believe the statement is important
[00:13:43] especially since your Excellency is the Attorney General of the Republic, thank
[00:13:47] you very much, Mr. President, Mrs.
[00:13:49] Minister Carmem Lúcia, gentlemen Ministers, gentlemen lawyers.
[00:13:53] given uh I would like to make a
[00:13:57] point here that seems very
[00:14:00] important to me, in view of the mention of my
[00:14:03] name to the position of Attorney General of the Republic,
[00:14:07] also the Attorney General of the Republic can only be
[00:14:10] investigated after the
[00:14:14] authorization of the proper body of the
[00:14:17] Federal Public Ministry,
[00:14:21] but I am happy that Minister André
[00:14:25] Mendonza has recognized. that there was nothing
[00:14:28] in what was collected that could
[00:14:31] induce any illicit practice by the
[00:14:35] Attorney General of the Republic, I would like to make this clear
[00:14:37] to avoid uh misunderstandings,
[00:14:41] if objective, there
[00:14:44] is none, nor did I have a close
[00:14:48] relationship with Mr. Vorcaro, the
[00:14:52] only meeting I had with Mr. Vorcaro took place with
[00:14:55] several authorities in April
[00:14:58] 2024, the only
[00:15:01] call intermediated by
[00:15:04] a lawyer was very brief and
[00:15:07] trivial,
[00:15:09] ah, in fact,
[00:15:12] the result of the IPJ only points to
[00:15:16] messages without any legal
[00:15:18] relevance, ah, before and
[00:15:21] after the action of the Federal Public Ministry. in
[00:15:25] the first instance and in the Supreme Federal Court,
[00:15:28] it was always for the total
[00:15:31] clarification of the facts for the success of the
[00:15:35] criminal prosecution. whoever
[00:15:37] analyzes the facts without bias, will see that the Public
[00:15:41] Ministry, in exercising its role as holder of the criminal
[00:15:44] action, was precise and
[00:15:47] was correct,
[00:15:50] thanking once again Minister André Mendonça for the
[00:15:53] reference that he
[00:15:56] made to me regarding the absence of any doubt that
[00:15:59] Your Excellency has about the integrity of the work of the
[00:16:03] Attorney General of the Republic, I thank you for the floor,
[00:16:06] thank you. Mr. President, just to make a reference, Dr. Paulo, I
[00:16:10] try to be fair, no one would want to be
[00:16:15] duty,
[00:16:18] and so, we can even evaluate if oh, I shouldn't have done that,
[00:16:21] maybe today knowing the facts, it's impressive, Mr. President, that a
[00:16:25] person, uh, of the stature of
[00:16:28] Paulo, of Paulo
[00:16:31] Gonê suffers this type of inference, that,
[00:16:35] that indeed is recklessness. That indeed is
[00:16:38] recklessness, the subject invested with a
[00:16:42] police sentiment along with
[00:16:45] his del, now that I have the floor, he has no right, Gilmar,
[00:16:48] I ask your Excellency it's impressive
[00:16:52] it's impressive the brazenness of this subject, the
[00:16:56] brazenness of your Excellency, Minister
[00:16:58] André, respect, Minister André, it's not a joke, I'm not
[00:17:02] crying, there's no crying here, Minister
[00:17:06] respect, Minister. if your Excellency with all due
[00:17:09] respect, doesn't take action, I'm going to ask for
[00:17:13] a view, no, I just need to clarify, it's
[00:17:16] impossible Minister
[00:17:19] Faquim, please, the police power
[00:17:23] of the session is up to your Excellency, it's true, we
[00:17:27] are speaking in terms that degrade the image of the
[00:17:30] court, if so
[00:17:32] in these
[00:17:34] terms, Mr. President, they are not, Minister, your Excellency. trying
[00:17:38] to calm down, your Excellency has been watching this for
[00:17:41] hours, for hours on my part,
[00:17:44] Minister Dino, your Excellency has been
[00:17:47] watching for hours that is transforming the
[00:17:50] supreme, in the coming weeks,
[00:17:54] that is months in this
[00:17:56] debate, if your Excellency is going to watch
[00:18:00] this, I am not, because I am a
[00:18:03] public servant of this country and I have respect for it, so...
[00:18:07] President, I make once again an appeal, what your
[00:18:11] Excellency, your Excellency's conduct is
[00:18:15] leading to this debate that Your Excellency has just
[00:18:18] witnessed, being prolonged for
[00:18:20] months, months, your
[00:18:24] Excellency witnesses that I have conducted
[00:18:27] as much as possible, and this
[00:18:30] situation that is set derives from your Excellency's
[00:18:34] conduct, it is your Excellency's conclusion, I am
[00:18:37] informing your Excellency that your Excellency is leading the supreme to
[00:18:41] remain in this degrading way from a technical and
[00:18:45] ethical point of view for months, I only make this patriotic
[00:18:49] and fraternal remembrance to your Excellency, it is your
[00:18:52] Excellency's conclusion, your Excellency requested a
[00:18:55] view, no, I just wanted to finish before he evaluates, I am
[00:18:58] asking for a view to present,
[00:19:01] I have to interrupt this situation
[00:19:04] because we have a point of order, we do not have... conditions
[00:19:07] to deliberate, the climate is only getting worse,
[00:19:11] society watching, contrary to the rite that the law
[00:19:15] commands, Mr. President, with all due
[00:19:17] respect, I don't care if there will be on my Instagram
[00:19:21] or on my Facebook thousands of
[00:19:24] messages saying of impunity, of corruption, I have
[00:19:28] responsibility with this country and 15
[00:19:31] days before an election, the
[00:19:34] court exposed itself and see without a period.
[00:19:38] finally, Mr. President, I think your Excellency did not realize
[00:19:41] this, because your Excellency, in addition to scheduling this disastrous
[00:19:44] session, also scheduled it for next
[00:19:47] week, and in the coming weeks, your Excellency
[00:19:50] is condemned to schedule dozens of
[00:19:54] similar sessions and why
[00:19:57] Minister President,
[00:20:00] the messages from Minister
[00:20:03] Fux, the messages from Minister Cássio,
[00:20:07] regarding Minister André, where are we going to stop?
[00:20:11] I imagined that your Excellency had
[00:20:14] thought about this, there is no message
[00:20:17] regarding, there is no message with me,
[00:20:21] no, sir, there is none,
[00:20:25] someone, I had never seen that citizen in my life, I never
[00:20:29] had a relationship with him, no, your Excellency in one fell swoop
[00:20:32] your Excellency is basing on these inquiries that arise from
[00:20:35] nothing. no, I can only
[00:20:39] clarify, it will have to clarify in due
[00:20:43] course, unfortunately the mention,
[00:20:46] unfortunately, thank you, then we will be weeks. thing
[00:20:50] we will be weeks debating this,
[00:20:52] so, I reiterate my request for
[00:20:56] a view, sorry, I
[00:20:58] record my request for a view,
[00:21:01] well, so uh, these
[00:21:05] circumstances being set
[00:21:08] forth and the request for a view
[00:21:10] deduced,
[00:21:12] uh, would your Excellencies like to
[00:21:16] comment on this formal question? Well then, uh,
[00:21:20] since there is a request for a view, but even so I will grant the
[00:21:23] floor and I urge my eminent peers
[00:21:27] that we can hear the two votes,
[00:21:30] conclude the two votes and proclaim the
[00:21:34] provisional result with the request for a view attributed to Minister Fux, I
[00:21:38] thank you, Mr. President, Minister Luiz Fux, how does your
[00:21:41] Excellency vote? Mr. President,
[00:21:45] this question, first of all, it reveals
[00:21:49] that... there is no provision in
[00:21:52] the internal rules for this question and
[00:21:55] thus it is that in omitted cases the presidency
[00:21:59] of the court should
[00:22:02] wording of the internal rules. in omitted cases, as it was alleged here that
[00:22:06] there is no precedent, in omitted cases the
[00:22:10] president of the court decides. on the other hand,
[00:22:13] Mr. President, I understand that there is no longer a tenuous
[00:22:16] connection between these two
[00:22:19] petitions. one alleges abuse of
[00:22:22] authority, the other alleges allegedly
[00:22:26] illicit
[00:22:30] acts practiced by a member of the
[00:22:33] court, so there is no longer time and possibility of
[00:22:35] contradictory decisions,
[00:22:38] one thing is abuse of authority, another thing is this
[00:22:41] investigation, on the other hand
[00:22:45] the connection continence that is spoken
[00:22:48] presupposes. criminal cases that are at
[00:22:52] stake, there are no criminal cases, there is
[00:22:56] no criminal process, it is not
[00:22:59] an inquiry,
[00:23:02] what there is is an information that was we continue here with the
[00:23:04] coverage, here we are already following the session at the
[00:23:08] STF, Link News will now go for a quick break and
[00:23:12] will return shortly with the trial in Brasília, see you
[00:23:15] soon.
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[00:27:48] we continue live, following here on Link News the Supreme Court
[00:27:51] session that will define if Alexandre de Moraes will be
[00:27:55] investigated by the court, we will follow only by the theme that
[00:27:58] brings us here that it would have been the a... to
[00:28:02] be decided, but because this Federal Supreme
[00:28:06] Court, guardian of the constitution, by determination
[00:28:09] expressly stated therein, provoked,
[00:28:12] I think, a civic discomfort in all
[00:28:16] Brazilian citizens in these last
[00:28:19] days, I feel and I am speaking
[00:28:22] only for myself, who speaks for the Supreme Court is Your Excellency,
[00:28:26] President, I feel a little ashamed,
[00:28:29] president, at a moment when Brazil
[00:28:32] is less than 20 days from the election, everyone
[00:28:36] is focused on issues of the Supreme Court, which are
[00:28:40] procedural issues in part, with
[00:28:43] much, eh, much
[00:28:46] expression and with very serious issues,
[00:28:50] but we did not guarantee the rigor and serenity that in my
[00:28:53] role as a citizen and judge I should have perhaps
[00:28:57] helped more to promote, the judiciary exists to reassure
[00:29:01] the people and we... generated unease,
[00:29:04] I think, and this is my perception, I think
[00:29:07] we ourselves in this Supreme Court
[00:29:11] intoxicated the feeling of justice of Brazilian citizens
[00:29:14] in these last days, I
[00:29:16] these days said to one of my colleagues, I spoke with
[00:29:20] Minister Alexandre de Moraes, several times,
[00:29:23] I spoke with Minister André, I spoke with some with Your
[00:29:26] Excellency, eh I am linked by relations of
[00:29:30] friendship to some, of collegiality to... others,
[00:29:33] but I said that I
[00:29:37] drank from Clarice Lispector's lesson,
[00:29:40] I did not get lost, but I experienced perdition,
[00:29:44] because in this sense that
[00:29:47] the Brazilian people should be concerned,
[00:29:51] busy, focused on seeing
[00:29:54] what the general election is, what their destiny is that they
[00:29:57] want, the only subject I heard in the places where I went into a
[00:30:01] pharmacy, a bakery... or on the news
[00:30:04] was always what was happening here and that was not a pretty
[00:30:07] picture, therefore I wanted, if I eh
[00:30:10] was remiss, I already said this, to Minister Alexandre, I already said this, to Minister André,
[00:30:14] I am repeating to Your Excellency, if I
[00:30:17] as a judge of this house should have
[00:30:21] acted perhaps with a different posture to have helped more to
[00:30:24] avoid this, I am apologizing to Your Excellency,
[00:30:28] apologizing to all my colleagues for not having helped us to...
[00:30:32] overcome all this more quickly, I apologize to the Brazilian
[00:30:36] people for perhaps having expected a different posture from me,
[00:30:39] but I think all of us here wanted the same thing, which was
[00:30:43] to try to resolve and the issues were not resolved and grew
[00:30:47] too much, therefore I am apologizing to the
[00:30:50] president of the Supreme Court, all my colleagues, but to the Brazilian people,
[00:30:54] because I really wanted to have been better in being able to have helped to
[00:30:58] calm things down.