RT — Going Underground
20260808 023000 UTC
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[00:00:00] United States and and Israel, how can you challenge them?
[00:00:04] But if you follow what President
[00:00:07] Erdogan has said, all along,
[00:00:11] then then it's quite a sensible policy, basically
[00:00:14] distancing itself from
[00:00:16] a um of taking side with any party, although it's been
[00:00:20] as you mentioned the NATO country, um,
[00:00:24] so minister Fidan was
[00:00:28] also getting together with the... alfar up countries
[00:00:31] to sign away a number
[00:00:34] of certainly more than one declaration calling
[00:00:38] Iran the aggressor
[00:00:40] of on the gulf Arab
[00:00:41] of countries and what have you, and there was
[00:00:43] quite geneny
[00:00:46] in considerable
[00:00:46] of criticism at his
[00:00:48] way of explaining the war to the Turkish public, but the
[00:00:51] Turkish public
[00:00:56] you now is
[00:00:57] of quite um, anti-American quite and anti-Israeli. anything, everything, not
[00:01:01] of only in this war against Iran,
[00:01:03] of but you know,
[00:01:04] in anything you can think of over the last few
[00:01:07] decades, yeah, because um, foreign
[00:01:10] minister Fidan, maybe he's thinking about the F-35s, which I will get
[00:01:14] to later in the show, I mean
[00:01:18] Turkia has simultaneously, as I understand it, helping
[00:01:21] Iran uh against the kurds that
[00:01:25] Trump announced to the world, the United States was
[00:01:29] arming, as fake protesters in January and
[00:01:33] simultaneously facilitating US war planes from uh
[00:01:37] the NATO base in Ingelilic that may have bombed
[00:01:41] of Iran. um on the question of ingelick, no, the Ingelic
[00:01:44] airbase is almost closed um since
[00:01:48] of the um aborted coup of
[00:01:51] 15th of July 2016
[00:01:55] um in which the uh the base
[00:01:59] was ' i think use the
[00:02:02] bit um to support the attempted
[00:02:06] coup, so since then there has been no
[00:02:09] American combat troops, no
[00:02:14] of American air force planes deployed to the
[00:02:17] of base, then maybe british ones, no, I'm quite surprised
[00:02:21] of there, because I mean you held the anchor NATO summit, leader
[00:02:25] summit, did people not comment on the fact that supposedly
[00:02:29] this... important base in terkya was no longer being used
[00:02:33] by the United States, I don't whether by MIC. not
[00:02:37] anymore, I mean there may be certain logistical
[00:02:41] planes, taking off say somewhere in
[00:02:45] Poland and
[00:02:46] then making a flight into the region and
[00:02:49] then they may be calling at the angelic
[00:02:53] base for logistical purpose, but that's
[00:02:56] about all, other than that, there has been no...
[00:03:01] proper combat use
[00:03:05] de of de their angelic air base and against anybody, certainly not against
[00:03:09] de Iran, not even I would say for reconnaissance
[00:03:12] purposes, and there is been
[00:03:16] a debate inside Turkey about the
[00:03:19] kuragic radar station, which is certainly
[00:03:23] monitoring Iran and Iranian missiles and
[00:03:27] I think it was installed in
[00:03:30] um 2009 or 11 along those
[00:03:34] lines after the NATO summit in Lisbon
[00:03:38] and that was actually installed
[00:03:41] to to monitor Iranian missile
[00:03:45] activity, but i suppose from a military
[00:03:49] point of view that base um is
[00:03:53] obviously very sophisticated and it basically um
[00:03:57] passes any information. um from the Iranian
[00:04:01] side onto the NATO side and I'm sure the
[00:04:05] NATO country, the United States passes it
[00:04:08] to Israel within seconds, there
[00:04:12] is no question about it, but the Iranian missile
[00:04:15] um capability is such
[00:04:18] that um even that base has become
[00:04:22] almost um nothing
[00:04:25] basically um in terms of stopping
[00:04:28] Iranian um Iranian. missiles
[00:04:31] pumelling Israel, so even the all those bases
[00:04:35] across the gulf states um didn't do much in
[00:04:39] order to to stop Iran from
[00:04:43] again um sending all the sophisticated
[00:04:46] of missiles into Israel and and the American
[00:04:50] targets across the region, well the UAE has been successfully intercepting
[00:04:54] Iranian drones, I'm in Dubai so I'm a witness to
[00:04:57] of that, but then Iran's foreign minister publicly
[00:05:02] in
[00:05:03] in confirming's role in helping Iran
[00:05:07] eliminate these, the poor cuds been
[00:05:10] used this way and that way. by the CIA for so many
[00:05:14] decades, even in Iraq of course, and and
[00:05:18] used in Syria, I mean, we surprised by
[00:05:21] that, and surprised that Trump is not more angry with
[00:05:25] Erdogan given that he was so proud of funding the Kurds
[00:05:29] to try and forment some kind of revolution in
[00:05:32] Iran. Well, I think he's,
[00:05:36] he himself is quite disappointed with them, what
[00:05:40] they call the Kurdish fighters, the... KK all its
[00:05:43] affiliates, the Iranian branch and blah blah branch and the
[00:05:47] Syrian branch, and then you get the
[00:05:50] Barzani and the Talibani forces and all
[00:05:53] them, so I think it was around this time when the
[00:05:57] United States realize that Iran is getting is
[00:06:01] is certainly very difficult not to crack, they are not going
[00:06:05] to manage to to to to get
[00:06:09] the overthrow the regime in one way or the other. and they would
[00:06:13] need some sort of land operation against
[00:06:16] Iran, they basically ordered all those
[00:06:19] loyal Kurdish forces if you like, um, we then
[00:06:23] wake up call and say, well, this is the time, this is your time
[00:06:26] okay, and get up, take up arms
[00:06:30] and you are gna be ready, and we are going to tell you when
[00:06:34] to attack Iran, Iran, but then the trouble
[00:06:37] was they basically
[00:06:41] mumbled and... and they said, oh, we can't do the job, can
[00:06:45] we actually do it kind of thing, well it's not so much that, it's not so much
[00:06:48] that, is it Turkish intelligence supplied Iranian
[00:06:52] intelligence with details these Kurds and where they were
[00:06:56] were, and how to kill them, I think in December,
[00:07:00] yes, there was a piece of Turkish intelligence, I think
[00:07:04] that Turkish side supplied Iran with, and it proved to be
[00:07:08] quite important because the Iranian special forces
[00:07:11] immediately um got in basically, I think
[00:07:15] it was about the certain groups, that the
[00:07:19] Americans brought together to cross
[00:07:23] the border into Iran, so the Iranian side with Turkish
[00:07:26] intelligence let them in, let them to the Iranian
[00:07:30] side, and then they encircle them
[00:07:33] and presumably annihilated them, so
[00:07:36] after that
[00:07:38] this was back in presumably December,
[00:07:41] but "despite all that, in the 40
[00:07:45] days war, the Americans and the Israelis tried their
[00:07:49] lack with the so-called Kurdish forces once again against
[00:07:53] Iran, and this time round the Kurdish
[00:07:56] forces basically were very
[00:07:59] unwilling to do the to do their bidding, because they
[00:08:03] knew what what was going to happen. I think it was at that stage
[00:08:07] that Erdogan, according to all the reports, called
[00:08:11] Trump and..." said, don't do it, because if you
[00:08:15] do it, then
[00:08:16] you will have to force us to collaborate
[00:08:18] and cooperate with Iran, and obviously you don't want us
[00:08:22] to collaborate with Iran, so it was that
[00:08:26] point, I think when the United States gave
[00:08:29] up the so-called Kurdish forces,
[00:08:33] okay, and now they are very, the
[00:08:36] Americans, Trump is
[00:08:38] basically dropping them off
[00:08:41] like... as they say in British English,
[00:08:45] I mean is it your understanding that I don't
[00:08:49] was, she's retired now as director of national intelligence, but do you
[00:08:53] think Turkish intelligence operatives were
[00:08:56] laughing or or I mean the idea that this
[00:09:00] intelligence presumably was being provided by
[00:09:03] Musad and an and the
[00:09:07] CIA that somehow this would have any impact in
[00:09:10] Iran? I mean how... No, how, how would this ever have been
[00:09:14] thought up? They could have given you a phone call in
[00:09:18] Ankara. Oh, they could have followed my
[00:09:22] postings on my social media account, and I do programs
[00:09:25] actually with a former admiral,
[00:09:29] friend of mine, and we keep basically
[00:09:33] guessing what is gonna happen um, with with
[00:09:37] extreme accuracy, so without any payment
[00:09:40] for advisory. job, they could have followed us, but they
[00:09:44] didn't, what can we do, and but you
[00:09:47] know, it
[00:09:49] it it was all, I think it was out of desperation,
[00:09:52] because they presumably thought
[00:09:56] that killing homony and some the high
[00:09:59] ranking Iranian officials would have been enough to
[00:10:03] get the Iranian state structure crumbling all
[00:10:07] together, within days
[00:10:10] um, perhaps... at the most within
[00:10:14] weeks and but then as Iran
[00:10:18] retaliated and and retaliated quite
[00:10:22] effectively and ' "and the
[00:10:25] United in such a way that United States and Israel never
[00:10:29] expected an unprecedented on an
[00:10:32] unprecedented scale, then they
[00:10:36] they got into panic, they didn't know what to do, um, you
[00:10:40] know, and then the usual thing, you look at your list
[00:10:43] of um operatives and what have you on your payroll, and
[00:10:47] then you say, well, there are the curs here, oh, okay, and
[00:10:51] why don't we call them up, and we also have..."
[00:10:55] the um officials and officers working with them on the ground,
[00:10:59] so let's get them into the fighting, but
[00:11:02] then um,
[00:11:04] you know, you have their regional dynamics, for instance, like how
[00:11:08] would turkey react to it, plus would they ever be a good
[00:11:11] match against the powerful Iranian land
[00:11:15] forces and special forces and whatever you, and there are
[00:11:19] also Iranian backed forces
[00:11:23] inside Iraq, how... would you get all
[00:11:26] them basically um to one
[00:11:29] side, simply watch sitting and watching
[00:11:33] while all this is happening, so they are all going to get
[00:12:05] I am the son of Kenneth Kaunder. Through interacting
[00:12:09] with people from all works of life and from various parts the world,
[00:12:13] I am continual reminded of my father's legacy.
[00:12:17] I have come to realize that my father's impact on
[00:12:21] Africa remains as relevant today as it was back.
[00:12:25] then through the struggles of a continuous liberation, he
[00:12:29] showed us the power of perseverance
[00:12:33] and spirit, he's fight for justice and equality
[00:12:36] to build a more inclusive society, in place the
[00:12:39] divisions left by western colonialism. dad
[00:12:43] believed in the potential of every African,
[00:12:47] as we remember him, let us honor his vision by
[00:12:50] working tirelessly for better Africa, a continent of...
[00:12:55] opportunity, equality and progress for every
[00:12:58] child, woman and man. this is our
[00:13:02] africa
[00:13:03] and the future is in our
[00:13:06] hands.
[00:14:17] welcome back to Going Underground, I'm still here with the host of Strategic Compass and Basken
[00:14:21] University's professor of political science and international relations, professor.
[00:14:25] Professor, we were talking in uh part one of how uh, well NATO
[00:14:29] member Turkia helped Iran tipped off
[00:14:33] Iran about the Trump Kurd plan as it
[00:14:36] were, does Erdogan realize that
[00:14:40] Israel has Turkia in its sights as the next
[00:14:43] target after Iran, does does Turkia
[00:14:47] understand that? Well, I would think it
[00:14:50] does, um, but on the other hand um, I would
[00:14:54] say... that Israel is a bit you
[00:14:57] know talking a bit too much about you know
[00:15:01] boasting about this and the other and uh the
[00:15:05] next target is gna be Turkey oh certainly trying
[00:15:08] to punch much higher than their weight
[00:15:12] how are you going
[00:15:12] to basically strike Turkey if you do that then you are going to
[00:15:16] basically poking um into
[00:15:20] it like is the
[00:15:24] into the um uh beast nest
[00:15:27] basically a region which is already very very
[00:15:30] volatile, that's what we said about eran beforehand when no
[00:15:34] one thought they were going to do this, yep, yep, yep, and
[00:15:37] after basically Iran gave them a bloody
[00:15:41] nose, I mean talking in
[00:15:44] such a childish way saying that Turkey is going to be
[00:15:48] the next target, and okay,
[00:15:51] you know
[00:15:51] the Turkish institutions,
[00:15:53] the military, the intelligence and all the other related
[00:15:56] institutions basically do their job, but
[00:16:00] politically you don't take them seriously, would you? well
[00:16:04] I was interested in what you said in part one about how since the uh attempted
[00:16:08] coup in uh Ankara Interlink air base
[00:16:11] bases are more less dissus, so it's not being used
[00:16:15] like say the British are using Cyprus to aid
[00:16:18] the genocide in Gaza, but having said that,
[00:16:21] Turkey is helping Israel, isn't it through the sayan
[00:16:25] corridor to which Azerbaijani oil heats the
[00:16:29] homes of Netanyahu and his friends in Israel as they carry
[00:16:33] out the genocide, how do you explain Turkey's public condemnation of?
[00:16:37] side and simultaneous powering the
[00:16:41] houses of occupiers? well,
[00:16:45] there is set of contradictions in Turkey's policy towards
[00:16:48] Israel, um, maybe not so
[00:16:52] much in the Azerbaijan and Armenia dispute and the
[00:16:56] Trump corridor and all that, the it's an intricus
[00:17:00] case, intricate case between Azerbaijan
[00:17:03] and Armenia and Pashinan basically,
[00:17:07] turning against Russia and taking the uh western side
[00:17:11] in every sense, so going over to Trump and say,
[00:17:15] you please, you come in and I push the
[00:17:19] Russians out kind of thing, but the the
[00:17:22] more um visible um
[00:17:25] contradictions in Turkey's foreign policy
[00:17:29] and towards Israel you confined in the middle east, for
[00:17:33] instance, why did Turkey get involved in the whole?
[00:17:37] Syria business to basically overthrow the
[00:17:41] Assad regime, the Assad regime was an antisyria,
[00:17:45] anti Israel regime and it had basically
[00:17:49] f Israel on every occasion
[00:17:52] and professor, i did one the last interviews
[00:17:56] with Bashar al-Assad in Damascus during the middle the war,
[00:17:59] so the question you're asking is a brilliant question and I want you to
[00:18:03] answer it, why did '
[00:18:07] help overthrow the Syrian
[00:18:10] government, which allowed arguably the genocide in
[00:18:14] Gaza to happen, exactly, exactly, so
[00:18:18] on the one hand you are vocifariously anti
[00:18:21] Israeli, but at the same time you are
[00:18:25] basically overthrowing a very
[00:18:28] anti-Israeli government in Damascus, but
[00:18:32] why is it? why? well, well, I have been
[00:18:36] basically racking my rocking my brains since the
[00:18:40] Turkish intervention in this ugly war in 12
[00:18:43] 12 11 21 because
[00:18:47] 2011 sorry and basically since
[00:18:50] 19 1998
[00:18:54] which is when Turkey and Syria made an understanding
[00:18:58] over all the issues of importance to both countries and
[00:19:02] began cooperating over on particularly Syria and related
[00:19:06] affairs on all
[00:19:07] it security was matters and then
[00:19:09] began basically
[00:19:13] boosting the trade between the country economic relations and what have
[00:19:16] you, you
[00:19:17] know Erdogan's government which um
[00:19:21] invited the Syrian leader um to have
[00:19:24] holiday with them in you know family to family holiday several
[00:19:28] times, that's right, I think
[00:19:30] he had a personal, I think he felt personally betrayed little on many
[00:19:34] people in the so I think the only only. "It sounds like
[00:19:38] you're as confused as me about that, so let me let me put something
[00:19:41] else and whether this is symptomatic. I could just come up, I could just
[00:19:45] come up with one single answer to all that, because I've
[00:19:49] been trying to come up with an explanation,
[00:19:53] and I think that was islamist
[00:19:55] ideology. I mean, when the Arab spring
[00:19:59] began, and the Erdogan government and Ahmed
[00:20:03] and all these guys basically thought that this
[00:20:06] was the..." they had been waiting
[00:20:10] for, so the prophet basically has given them the
[00:20:14] opportunity to act now to bring down all these
[00:20:17] governments and replace them with the muslim brother ones
[00:20:21] i'm not sure r great fan great fan
[00:20:25] of Israeli sponsored al-qaeda in syria though, but do
[00:20:29] want not al-qaeda but muslim
[00:20:32] brotherhood governments and they were going to
[00:20:36] have all that and they were going to set up a sunni, muslim
[00:20:39] brotherhood inspired empire across the middle
[00:20:43] east,
[00:20:44] you know, it was all
[00:20:48] how i would call it just it
[00:20:52] was baseless if
[00:20:54] you if they had studied it properly clearly that's a very
[00:20:58] that is certainly very persuasive we're running out time so i've got to get
[00:21:02] on but that's certainly a persuasive answer uh but i was going to ask
[00:21:06] you then about similar contradiction if the other question wasn't
[00:21:10] actually answerable in that russia calls turkey a calls
[00:21:14] russia its partner but it's sim same time
[00:21:18] it's supporing weapons. to Zelensky,
[00:21:22] how long do you think Russia is going to tolerate Turkish drones
[00:21:25] being used to attack Russia? I mean last
[00:21:28] December, one these reported MI6 coordinated
[00:21:32] drones, I mean was aiming at Valday
[00:21:35] a home the president of Russia, what if it had been a Turkia
[00:21:39] drone, what what is Turkia's policy on
[00:21:42] Ukraine? Well,
[00:21:45] what did whether Turkey actually has been supplying
[00:21:49] um? Ukraine with sophisticated
[00:21:52] drones, um, I'm not so
[00:21:55] certain about,
[00:21:58] and I, I would also say that the western press seems to be
[00:22:02] exaggerating the Turkish supply
[00:22:06] to Ukraine in order to drive awage
[00:22:10] between Moscow and Ankara, that is quite understandable, the
[00:22:13] Russians, with whom I'm in close
[00:22:16] touch, um, do understand the situation.
[00:22:21] and the the problem comes from the NATO membership in the sense
[00:22:25] that Ukraine is still within the partnership
[00:22:28] for peace program of NATO, so NATO
[00:22:32] supplies um Ukraine with certain
[00:22:36] things that Turkey may have produced, but
[00:22:40] there has been a direct lines of communication between
[00:22:44] Moscow and Turkey, that is been still working,
[00:22:48] but occasionally... even I get the impression that
[00:22:51] Turkish policy is basically getting off track once
[00:22:55] again, so it can, because it is not
[00:22:59] an easy balancing act, and sometimes again
[00:23:03] you can see the forum minister saying
[00:23:07] certain things which are not
[00:23:09] necessarily which the Russians could
[00:23:13] easily consider as anti Russian, but
[00:23:16] then you have the president saying something else kind of... "but the
[00:23:20] trade and economic relations and others seem to be going well,
[00:23:24] and the Russians do understand and appreciate Turkey's position, I
[00:23:28] think there may be more Turkey could actually
[00:23:31] collaborate with Russia on, but and it seems to
[00:23:35] be refaining from that. For instance, at one stage, I
[00:23:39] was, I was certain that the Russians were prepared to
[00:23:43] recognize Turkish Republic of Northern Northern Cyprus,
[00:23:46] they were prepared to go to that length, because..." they were pissed
[00:23:50] off by Greece and the Greek Cypriots and
[00:23:54] the they thought that their interest in eastern Mediterranean
[00:23:58] certainly overlapped with with those of Turkey, but
[00:24:02] Turkey doesn't seem to be that
[00:24:05] enthusiastic at the Russians
[00:24:09] um um get um sometimes during
[00:24:13] this process, you think, but in
[00:24:15] the end I'm sure the Turkish Russian relations will go smoothly, there's
[00:24:19] a strategic. biguity obviously, but um, what with the
[00:24:23] turk stream pipeline, half of its oil from
[00:24:26] Russia, do you think now we'll see more
[00:24:30] ambiguity, because Turkey, if it
[00:24:33] is top five Russian energy importer under the Lindsay
[00:24:37] Graham act, it gets 100%
[00:24:40] tariffs from this new act that was signed the other
[00:24:43] day, do you think Turkey is worried about that given it's
[00:24:47] importing more energy from Russia than before?
[00:24:50] "Turkey would be worried about that, because
[00:24:53] you know we are not only importing energy from Russia, but
[00:24:57] also we are importing it a discounted
[00:25:00] price, so and if the United States
[00:25:03] basically impose sanctions on Turkey because of
[00:25:07] this, um, it would be, it wouldn't been an
[00:25:11] easy thing for the Turkish government to deal
[00:25:14] with, is NATO do you think uh
[00:25:18] gna end or?" "
[00:25:20] do you think that was the last summit of its kind in Ankara if
[00:25:24] Russia manages to finally end the conflict in
[00:25:27] Ukraine? well, I always believe that
[00:25:31] both NATO and the European Union
[00:25:34] are antiquated um
[00:25:37] alliance and union, and they are
[00:25:41] the institutions and
[00:25:43] the and the alliance
[00:25:46] basically the cold war period. I don't think
[00:25:50] they can uh, they can survive a multipolar world order,
[00:25:54] they are going to basically crumble one after the other, and just
[00:25:58] finally, has Iran won the war against the United States and
[00:26:01] Israel? Yes, oh yes,
[00:26:03] it is, it is, it is not only one the war,
[00:26:07] it is a strategic defeat on the part of Israel and
[00:26:10] particularly the United States and Iran with this victory
[00:26:13] has basically contributed to the
[00:26:17] transforming the world order quite
[00:26:21] massively, and do you think that will be
[00:26:25] communicated to western audiences or there's a time lag before
[00:26:28] people in the United States and Western Europe understand that?
[00:26:33] the second, there is always a time la lag you
[00:26:36] know in communicating in
[00:26:40] London, Paris and New York, but not
[00:26:43] as not as slow as in the past, because
[00:26:47] because
[00:26:47] you know we are a media world where you can
[00:26:51] hardly hide
[00:27:01] to all those you bereeved or traumatized by today's NATO nation wars of aggression,
[00:27:05] we'll be back for more on NATO's wars on Monday with multiard winning scholar
[00:27:09] professor Johnsheimer, until then keep in touch by all our social media if it's not censored in
[00:27:13] your country and head channel going underground tv on rumble.com to watch new and old
[00:27:17] episodes of going underground team
[00:27:18] monday.
[00:27:53] The deep state has its hands in everything. I was in the middle
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[00:28:14] and i still do. i'm John Kiriaku on my
[00:28:17] show, the deep state, take you behind the geopolitical moves, the
[00:28:21] color revolutions, behind the politics and the
[00:28:24] politicians. we shine a light on where the deep state is
[00:28:28] hiding.
[00:28:39] If any two countries want to resolve issues, they can resolve it outside
[00:28:43] of Syria, because in Syria we want connectivity to
[00:28:47] ports, to highways to internet to be hub for,
[00:28:51] and if we want that, we cannot be area of
[00:28:53] conflict.
[00:29:02] apporter du confort matériel à l'habitant la
[00:29:06] forêt ou la savane, ce sont là des réalisations
[00:29:10] à mettre à l'actif la présence blanche en
[00:29:13] afrique.
[00:29:18] Museum served as an educational platform on Belgium's
[00:29:22] colonial policy. Dus generaties lang heeft dit museum een
[00:29:25] boodschap mee gegeven van superioriteit van de blanke ten
[00:29:29] opzichte van van de zwarte.