RT — Worlds Apart 20261011 123000 UTC 466 transcript segments Google Speech-to-Text API Automatic Transcription (Chirp) Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive. Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record. [00:00:00] quite different, the three words are [00:00:03] in constructive, strategic and stability, constructive, [00:00:07] strategic stability are the [00:00:10] of three words which a Chinese side um they [00:00:14] hope that would define the relationship. first of all, what does these [00:00:18] three words mean? constructive means um both [00:00:21] countries should stay away [00:00:24] from [00:00:27] mentality. looking at [00:00:31] what could be achieved [00:00:33] of realistically on both sides, strategic [00:00:36] means both sides should [00:00:38] of address each other's core interests because the core interests do not [00:00:42] go inside um stability means that both countries should [00:00:46] in avoid a zero some game which could a spiral [00:00:50] out of control towards hot war confrontation [00:00:54] so these are the three words but reality is the more [00:00:57] complicated well [00:00:58] of when the chinese present is using uh this exact phrase, [00:01:02] of constructive strategic stability, and I fully understand what it means, [00:01:06] but this phrase uh seems to be completely out [00:01:09] of the Trump's administration [00:01:12] in uh scope and style of operations, so when the Chinese uh [00:01:16] rely on that, is it more about value [00:01:19] of projection, about perhaps a virtue [00:01:22] of signaling, or they indeed believe that the Americans can commit [00:01:26] themselves to behaving like that with any nation let's let [00:01:30] alone China, well of course that's what China hopes, [00:01:33] because what China wants is not to replace the United [00:01:38] of States dominance, because neither China is [00:01:43] of me interested nor is China capable of replicating 800 [00:01:47] military bases around the world, and China does not [00:01:50] have the dominance of his [00:01:53] of currency, um, and and let alone that's China's philosophy, [00:01:57] so China wants a more stable. so as to [00:02:01] grow is economy, so as to achieve is vision [00:02:05] of renaissance, achieving the so-called second [00:02:08] centenary go, [00:02:10] of whereby by 2049, which is the 100th anniversary of [00:02:13] Chinese republic of China, China will become an advanced [00:02:17] socialist country bringing the standard of [00:02:21] living of his people, but of course that that would mean [00:02:25] that China has found itself [00:02:28] challenging the dominant. uh [00:02:30] of the United States in various [00:02:33] a fields, in the fields of technology, in the field of of [00:02:36] course um um group with supply and value chain. China [00:02:40] after all, it's the largest trading partner, 228 [00:02:44] countries around the world, so I think [00:02:45] that these are structural differences uh which translate [00:02:49] into [00:02:50] a um a long-term rivery between the two [00:02:54] countries. Now Mr. Long, just as you said, President She and [00:02:57] of President Trump represent very different systems. "and they [00:03:00] also personally and nationally operate on such [00:03:04] drastically different worldviews that it's hard to believe that [00:03:08] in they could ever come to a lasting and mutually [00:03:11] of satisfying arrangement and from the outside, at least from Russia, it looks like the [00:03:15] Americans are trying to manage their own decline by [00:03:19] trying to drag [00:03:21] of China down, is it uh how it's perceived in [00:03:24] China? well of course that's was perceived by [00:03:28] many people in China that..." um the United States is placing [00:03:32] road blocks um to contain China's [00:03:35] a rice, of but [00:03:35] of on the end, as I explained earlier, that's a [00:03:38] structural kind of result um [00:03:45] a of from of the um of and continuing dominance of the United States in many fields and also uh President Trump's [00:03:49] agenda of making American great again, thinking American [00:03:53] can maximize uh his dominance uh to con to [00:03:56] prolong is hegemony um so... that's [00:04:00] is [00:04:01] not a matter of rhetoric, it's a reality, now I think China understands [00:04:05] that, but I think that China hopes [00:04:07] of that um by bringing two leaders together they can better [00:04:11] understand each other um without a kind of [00:04:15] star eye kind of vision, but [00:04:19] at least the truth is now some sort of a [00:04:22] truth as is being realized, [00:04:25] of but for very short term you can see that that [00:04:28] there was a stoppage of. but only for a couple of months and the [00:04:32] reason for this very short periods suggest that the [00:04:36] riley is likely to continue why a couple of months because [00:04:39] president Trump wants to have um a scenario where [00:04:43] where he can narrate a kind of um long-term [00:04:47] peaceful relationship with China and in the light [00:04:50] of the upcoming mid-term elections. you [00:04:53] of mentioned some statistics and my statistics, my figures slightly [00:04:57] differ, I rely on the uh latest 2 26th [00:05:00] IMF report, but it it also suggests that China is [00:05:04] now the largest trading partner for 151 [00:05:08] countries around the world as opposed to uh the United States. [00:05:12] being uh 58 or 57, now any [00:05:16] case it shows very substantial disbalance, and if the [00:05:20] Americans want to change that, I suppose they will need [00:05:24] to offer the world something both positive and [00:05:27] palatable, some genuinely new added value, just [00:05:31] like China did to all these nations and [00:05:35] encourage them to trade with it, first and foremost uh, but [00:05:39] the Americans still rely on the old narratives, on the old... [00:05:42] threats plus [00:05:44] you know the old instrument of tariffs, why do you [00:05:48] think they're so stuck in their ways? well let's [00:05:51] underestimate the united states, mean united [00:05:54] states have lot of very clever people, [00:05:58] but not the reality stares them in the face in sense that after [00:06:02] decades of outsourcing the manufacturing um [00:06:05] facilities to around the world, not least the china um [00:06:09] their manufacturing capacity. is been hollow [00:06:13] out, they no longer produce a lot the products around the world, but they [00:06:17] are good good at producing high-end goods, they want [00:06:21] to to to maintain their control over [00:06:23] semiconductors [00:06:25] um and also um in AI this very keen [00:06:28] competition, so they want to zero in [00:06:32] on the commanding heights the the trade, [00:06:36] not just every trade, but on the other hand, as I said [00:06:40] for the broad area. of tray, the capacity's been hot [00:06:44] a while, but they want to focus on the commanding [00:06:48] heights, so I think that this is the keen competition that slightly [00:06:51] intensify on AI, on high-tech [00:06:54] technology, on on robotics [00:06:58] and and drones and that kind of thing. now you talked [00:07:02] about the American aspiration to secure that [00:07:05] dominance at the so-called commanding heights and China has [00:07:09] also made some inroads in that direction and [00:07:12] talking about its leverage over the Americans, particularly [00:07:15] its uh uh access to rare earth materials which [00:07:19] are critical for American manufacturing, including military [00:07:23] manufacturing, how big of factor is that and without [00:07:27] it, do you think the geopolitical situation between Washington and [00:07:31] Beijing and perhaps even more broadly around the world, do you think it would have been the [00:07:34] same? well let's concentrate on the two examples as an [00:07:38] illustration on the kind of continuing [00:07:41] ryway. "the first one is on uh maybe rare [00:07:45] earth you mentioned and the second is on AI, [00:07:49] well as far as rare earth is concern um let's not [00:07:52] conflate the supply of rare earth with [00:07:56] the uh processing because supplied rare earth is everywhere, [00:08:00] mean the rare earths in in united states, rare earth in Ukraine [00:08:04] and greenland, canada, australia all over the place, but [00:08:08] then the rare earths are are the rare [00:08:12] elements, they need to be refined and highly [00:08:16] sophisticated and highly polluting process, which China has [00:08:19] perfected, China would continue to maintain this dominance, but [00:08:23] again this dominance is not going to last forever, and other [00:08:27] countries, and not just the United States are going to find their own [00:08:31] way to develop their capabilities, but it's likely to take [00:08:35] maybe decades um before that happens. now on [00:08:39] AI, um, I think that [00:08:42] the um "there's no doubt that again, America is [00:08:45] slightly ahead, but even the the top [00:08:49] officials admitted the china is is [00:08:52] now 80 or even 90% and only few [00:08:56] months behind, but the big big differences that the American [00:09:00] put um almost selling the farm and putting all [00:09:04] they have on um AI data centers. the [00:09:08] second big difference is that the American AI [00:09:11] ecology. is based on fee charging, you can't use the AI [00:09:15] model unless you pay, whereas China is now opening up is the [00:09:19] open um open [00:09:21] forum and you like the internet in the beginning, it's open to [00:09:25] everybody, so China's strategy is based [00:09:28] a the model is much cheaper, much more [00:09:31] affordable um and to use and because it's free after [00:09:35] all, secondly is compare very [00:09:38] closely with the you fees pay kind of model [00:09:42] and "if more people embrace the China's modelal, then China would [00:09:46] have the advantage. now uh, I heard you also say in another [00:09:50] interview that Trump's capriciousness could lead to a more [00:09:54] balanced world as more and more countries seek various [00:09:57] partnerships, as a way of ensuring uh [00:10:01] predictability, of ensuring stability, and also ensuring better deal [00:10:04] as you ellicidated just now, if you can get a cheaper [00:10:08] technology and with less restraints, why wouldn't you?" " [00:10:12] do that, mean ultimately the nation still have [00:10:15] a degree of choice in the economic affairs, now [00:10:18] that would still leave the united states [00:10:22] as this wild card of. national affairs as a [00:10:26] disrupting force and i do want to ask you about that, [00:10:30] do you think the Americans will continue relying on this [00:10:33] disrupting strategy going forward or do you think sooner or [00:10:37] later they will get, they will have enough of it and will also [00:10:41] want to ensure some predictability and stability for themselves [00:10:44] perhaps on less grandiose grounds? well [00:10:48] let to understand the dynamics going ahead, [00:10:52] one has got to understand American's dominance. um [00:10:56] um the unipal unipolar world which existed after the [00:11:00] second world war, other countries can compare americans [00:11:03] influence not only on the military but also in trade, in [00:11:07] finance and in is the size of his economy and [00:11:11] so on, and this so-called American led liberal [00:11:14] world order is based on even though American [00:11:18] own um and interest uh because after all the rules are [00:11:22] skilled and in favor the United States but never... the less [00:11:26] there are some norms and some rules which american [00:11:29] try to uphold so as to lift the bow for everybody and [00:11:33] so that's [00:11:34] to benefit um other allies and traders including especially [00:11:38] china, china is benefit hugely by this american world [00:11:42] liberal order, but as I said in the beginning this orders now lies [00:11:46] tatus as the Trump administration is imposing sanctions and [00:11:50] tariffs and making petitory demands even for [00:11:54] territory of... with closest allies including Canada, [00:11:57] Greenland and and so on, and then it's so [00:12:01] capricious, because one one hand they're negotiating with [00:12:04] Iran, and while the negotiation going on, they sending bombers [00:12:08] and and and steal fighters and destroy their leadership, so I [00:12:12] think many countries are now have now [00:12:15] lost heart in this American world order, but [00:12:19] China is not prepared, it's notum entirely [00:12:22] capable of replacing that. as I said China is now [00:12:26] benefiting hugely, so I think that what China wants is [00:12:30] a um, at least growat is and self-reliance and [00:12:34] technology, b) to be less [00:12:37] succeptable to American dominance using the US dollar [00:12:41] using bilateral trade currencies, [00:12:45] the UAE or the Middle East are selling oil to China, why do [00:12:49] they need to use the US dollar, so I think the same applies to [00:12:52] country selling soy beans to China and so... so forth and and [00:12:56] gradually um more countries trading between [00:12:59] countries, not between individuals, because after all the US dollar still very [00:13:03] useful, but between countries trading with China [00:13:07] um the directly in their own mutual currencies and that [00:13:10] would have the effect of eroding the dollars [00:13:14] dominance. well, Mr. Long, unfortunately [00:13:16] you still haven't answered my direct question of whether you think the Americans will have [00:13:20] had enough the sort of dominance [00:13:24] claims and... may uh resort to a more gradual and [00:13:27] stable arrangement with other nations, but let's address that question after a [00:13:31] short break, we will be back a couple of moments, stay [00:13:34] tuned! [00:14:03] There's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth is the case [00:14:07] the madness the people, I tried to go to the gym but I'm certainly not ready to fight [00:14:11] Russia, this is all so absurd, this is third world lunacy, [00:14:14] brainwashing, as poslion likes to say we have the [00:14:18] tools, why don't we just start with stability and business deals, [00:14:22] what planet I mean living on man, we have. with propaganda in [00:14:26] our press here in Europe. I think we don't know the aftermath. Anytime [00:14:30] that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all the questions. The more [00:14:33] questions asked, the better the answers will [00:14:36] be. [00:14:44] Welcome back to world's apart with Andrew Lung a China [00:14:48] specialist and Hong Kong's former chief representative for the [00:14:51] UK, Russia and number of EU members. [00:14:55] Mr. Lung, just before the break, we discuss that the Americans are [00:14:59] pretty used to uh getting their way, a [00:15:02] hard way by threats, by demands, by trying to be [00:15:06] domineering, and I ask you whether you think [00:15:10] that sooner or later they will find it that [00:15:14] uh, this strategy is no longer working, especially as more and more [00:15:17] nations, do take the liberty to build their [00:15:21] relationships, diplomatic and economic relationships with. and with [00:15:25] other international players, so do you think the [00:15:29] Americans will ever get enough of this [00:15:32] domineering strategy? well, I think that [00:15:35] this... one kind of mindset [00:15:38] is deeply [00:15:41] within Donald Trump's personality, he think that the [00:15:45] American of course is is is still the the greatest and most [00:15:49] powerful country on the planet and and the United [00:15:53] States that according to his him and his followers has [00:15:57] been short changed by is even by his allies so it's [00:16:00] now um incument upon him to change that by [00:16:04] maximizing American's dominance on finance [00:16:08] with us dollar is military so it's likely to [00:16:11] continue with the Trump administration, but of course there are [00:16:15] increasing headwinds as we have covered both in China's [00:16:19] able to withstand resilience and [00:16:22] other countries a group of south recalibrating [00:16:26] relationship with away from the United States [00:16:29] not to forsake United States all together but at least balancing the [00:16:33] tray which result as you pointed out earlier uh [00:16:37] in China achieving huge surplus by [00:16:41] proviting to the global south, so I think that this is like to continue, but I [00:16:45] think that with democratic administration, things may be [00:16:49] again recalibrated, because still Americans, [00:16:52] the people set greak store on American's [00:16:55] leadership the whole world order since the second world [00:16:59] war, and then as you pointed out, they find that this kind of [00:17:03] unilateral hegemonic mindset maybe hasn't [00:17:07] is is not working and they may recalibrating [00:17:10] back towards a more benig relationship, but [00:17:14] still [00:17:14] the they will rely on Americans at almens in many fields including the [00:17:18] military. Let ask you about perhaps [00:17:22] taking this relationship from a [00:17:25] unilateral or bilateral format to a trilateral one, because [00:17:29] there is lot of talk ahead the upcoming apex [00:17:32] summit in China in November about the possible meeting [00:17:36] between... president Trump, president she and President [00:17:40] Putin, um, do you think it's likely? [00:17:43] well, I would roll out the possibility, because after all President [00:17:47] Trump has expressed the wish to attend the [00:17:50] meeting, and as far as the host of that meeting, China is [00:17:54] concern, being of course would prefer uh Trump [00:17:58] attending, and of course President Putin, which is [00:18:02] very good friend with President C, so if the three leaders [00:18:06] are there, why not organize a [00:18:08] trilateral, at least dialogue, even though is [00:18:12] unlikely change the fundamental structural [00:18:16] differences, so I think that this is possible, but whether [00:18:20] that happens still remains to be seen, again there could be [00:18:24] informal meetings and even if there is a formal meeting, I don't think it's [00:18:27] unlikely to change the dynamics, for example the war on Ukraine is [00:18:31] still going on, and the United States approach to the [00:18:35] war [00:18:36] um and is not on always [00:18:38] um at all force with russias and national security [00:18:42] uh and then the Europeans of course are putting spanish in the works [00:18:46] and the Europeans are also also some them are still [00:18:49] maintaining very close relationship with the United [00:18:53] States to contain Russia over [00:18:57] Ukraine so I think that there are still fundamental differences but as far as [00:19:01] the trilateral meeting idea is no bad idea so that [00:19:05] the two or three dealers together at least talk things. um, not [00:19:09] talk things over, but at least establish a deeper understanding of each [00:19:12] each other's position. for a long time, the Americans had [00:19:16] habit of treating such high-level visits, not as a meeting [00:19:20] of equals or diplomatic necessity, but as reward [00:19:23] for good behavior. now that clearly is not [00:19:27] gonna work for either president Putin or President Chi, but I wonder [00:19:31] if the tables by now have turned a little bit that [00:19:35] you know President Trump may seek. such an occasion more [00:19:39] than the the the other two presidents, not because of any concrete [00:19:43] deals, but [00:19:44] you know just for the sake of grandstanding and personal gratification [00:19:48] being pictured you know together with [00:19:52] other presidents or leaders of great powers, [00:19:56] wouldn't that tantalize President Trump's [00:19:59] ego? well of course President Trump is a great master [00:20:03] theatrics, um, he can turn um the [00:20:06] perception. according to the China saying deer into [00:20:10] a horse, you thinks a horse, it would become a horse instead of [00:20:14] deer, um, and so I think that his master of [00:20:17] narrative, but on the other hand, I think that if [00:20:21] he wants things badly, he could really bend backwards as [00:20:25] exemplified by his um fawing [00:20:28] reception of president C, in the rolling the red carbit and [00:20:32] meeting presidency and and his first lady a tamet [00:20:36] has never been. before, so I think that again, it's a [00:20:40] theatre, I think the both um, all the leaders and see through [00:20:43] that, um, but it doesn't stop president C [00:20:47] continue to play the game is very, very good at. [00:20:50] Well uh, good rapport among leaders is definitely a very valuable [00:20:54] asset in uh geopolitics, the Putin sheer relationship [00:20:58] is a good example of that, but what do you think it means in case of Donald [00:21:02] Trump, and isn't there a risk that President Trump, if that [00:21:06] meeting indeed comes to pass, may feel a little bit left out [00:21:10] given the Putin Chia bonjomy that exists [00:21:13] already, because president she and President Putin do understand each other [00:21:17] much a much deeper level and then..." President [00:21:20] Trump uh relates to either one them? I think [00:21:24] that the uh Beijing is much better master [00:21:28] the kind of international and geopolitical [00:21:31] dynamics even the perceptions in such [00:21:35] important meetings, witness president Trump's last visit to the bricks [00:21:39] summit, um, you can see on the theater, obviously India [00:21:43] was trying to cose up to President Putin um and [00:21:47] leaving the Chinese leader in the... [00:21:50] sometimes with and also [00:21:53] presidency after make hasty exit [00:21:57] from [00:21:57] the the brick meeting, but I think that as [00:22:01] far as the Beijing is the host, obviously he want to [00:22:05] be to be seen to be respectful to both leaders, [00:22:09] to as United States and and after all Putin's [00:22:13] long term allied and very good friends and so I [00:22:17] think that this is - "presidency is [00:22:20] trying to cheat both leaders with great respect and on even [00:22:24] kill, now if that meeting uh indeed materialize, [00:22:28] one the issues that seems to be offering itself up for discussion [00:22:32] would be the resumption the talks on some sort of [00:22:36] trilateral nuclear arms control treaty, and [00:22:39] CNN reported the other day that China and the United States [00:22:43] have already discussed reciprocal nuclear sites [00:22:46] visits, do you think that um..." [00:22:50] you know deal has any potential given that [00:22:54] China's nuclear arsenals at this point of time a substantially [00:22:58] smaller than those the United States and Russia and clearly [00:23:01] China wouldn't want to be uh reduced [00:23:05] at that level, it would want to feel on [00:23:08] on equal kill with other players. Well, I don't think the [00:23:12] briging necessarily wants a complete parity, because [00:23:15] after all the modern nuclear weapons of warheads and much more powerful. [00:23:20] that those drop on Nagasaki and [00:23:23] Hiroshima multiple times more powerful, so you don't [00:23:27] need 100 nuclear warheads um to destroy [00:23:31] nation [00:23:32] and now you look at the stock pile, Russia is the largest world's [00:23:36] largest stop pile over 3ous maybe [00:23:39] 3,300, the United States is very closely behind over [00:23:42] 300 and China's not even reaching 100, [00:23:46] um even though China doesn't want parity obviously. [00:23:51] you need a sufficient number to deploy them in [00:23:55] strategic assets and theaters, but on the [00:23:58] hand, it's not in China's interest to see [00:24:01] nuclear proliferation as well as because then the more [00:24:05] weapons [00:24:07] um if there is an arms race especially with what's happening around the [00:24:11] world over Ukraine and and on [00:24:15] over Iran, countries are beginning to feel [00:24:18] especially the middle. power countries, they feel they're so [00:24:22] now vulnerable to American military dominance and the only defense [00:24:26] is possession and nuclear powers, this could lead to periferation around the [00:24:30] world. now what worries China of course is the population in the Asian [00:24:34] Pacific, particularly Japan and also other [00:24:38] countries, and this will stabilize China's neighborhood, so China doesn't [00:24:42] want new preparation, but no does China want [00:24:45] deliberate limitation of his nuclear arsenal. Mr. [00:24:49] Lungu. "you said that China is not striving towards nuclear [00:24:53] parity, but at the same time it's been investing lot of [00:24:56] resources into various nuclear facilities, and it has [00:25:00] enormous technological and economic provis, [00:25:04] something that perhaps neither Russia nor the United States can [00:25:07] uh afford at the moment, and therefore there's been a lot of articles [00:25:11] about how the Americans are concerned about uh [00:25:15] China secretly expanding its nuclear weapons [00:25:18] infrastructure, "my last question to you is whether you think [00:25:22] that perhaps China doesn't mind the Americans being [00:25:25] concerned uh about that issue and using it as a [00:25:29] sort of psychological deterrent so that the Americans know [00:25:33] that while China is not like it's part of China's doctrine [00:25:37] not to attack first not to use nuclear strike first but that [00:25:41] the Americans know that it has something to respond [00:25:44] with. I think no country wants to reveal uh is [00:25:48] core uh..." military [00:25:52] hardware, software completely to his [00:25:55] arch um enemies or potential rivals [00:25:58] and no doubt that technologies have... [00:26:03] ing on the nuclear warhead front, for example, as I mentioned [00:26:06] before, the warhead drop in Hiroshiman and Arakasaki is now [00:26:10] only as very very small fraction the power that can be [00:26:14] unleashed with more than warheads, so I think that there was continuing [00:26:18] research, not only in China but in other countries, now whether [00:26:21] China is remains ahead in certain technologies, [00:26:25] that cannot be root out, but I don't think China is ready to [00:26:29] reveal everything, no the United States, no Russia. um, but [00:26:33] I think the danger is um, on the one hand there is keen [00:26:37] competition on AI, drone warfare and all [00:26:41] that, because the technology is changing and then [00:26:44] that the world becomes much more um [00:26:47] disruptive, on the other hand um and each [00:26:51] country will stay ahead with the as I said [00:26:55] commanding highs in in in all [00:26:57] the all fields where been AI or nuclear weapons or [00:27:00] space technology. um and even in [00:27:04] how tray is going to be conducted, so I think that we are seeing [00:27:08] a world which is totally up ended, and [00:27:12] we are we are in for major change a number of key [00:27:15] fields across the group. Okay, well, Mr. Lung, this is all we [00:27:19] have time for for now, thank you very much for your [00:27:22] insights, thank you very much indeed, and thank [00:27:26] you for watching, see you next week on world's [00:27:29] apart. [00:30:21] and he should have an election and he can't raise the price of [00:30:24] oil, it's done enough. Donald Trump says Kief needs a [00:30:28] new leader as Washington lift sanctions a Russian diesel. [00:30:32] supplies and that decision is deemed weak by Vladimir Zelenski and [00:30:36] prompts a Ukrainian delegation to immediately leave the United [00:30:39] States. The huti is [00:30:43] worn against anyone using Saudi Airspace and it comes after [00:30:47] devastating strike on Riyad's main airport leaving 12 people [00:30:50] dead and more than 300 wounded. The hooutis confirm to [00:30:54] RT that they were behind the attack. These [00:30:58] attacks are Yemeny attacks.