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20260806 043000 UTC
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[00:00:07] as an incentive in this process of insurance, from then on we have to
[00:00:10] look again at the issues of prevention, as
[00:00:13] it seems here we have a case like that of
[00:00:17] Evia, a very dense forest, a very rich
[00:00:21] forest, which had been protected all these years,
[00:00:23] either by chance or for reasons of
[00:00:27] prevention, but it had been left. It had
[00:00:30] been left because people are no longer in the periphery,
[00:00:33] resin producers, the people who lived daily and
[00:00:37] functioned as unofficial
[00:00:40] managers of the forests, this is a big
[00:00:43] issue and there must be a comprehensive providence, obviously
[00:00:46] there is money, the anti-flooding program, there is the
[00:00:50] undergrounding program for the cables of DEDDIE and ADMIE, all
[00:00:54] these issues that come and go, the point is to be given from a certain point
[00:00:58] onwards.
[00:01:08] Exactly, and it's a big discussion, Mr. Minister, the desertification of the countryside, of course, and one of
[00:01:12] the issues that, of course, a living
[00:01:14] forest that has activities within it is less at risk. Now, farmers,
[00:01:18] yes, now farmers have been taken out of production, tourist
[00:01:22] businesses,
[00:01:24] we will see them and we will see them in the coming days. I repeat my basic
[00:01:28] position that it is a danger. Climate change will be constantly
[00:01:32] escalating in the future, we must make bold decisions,
[00:01:35] for me, universal insurance is a solution with
[00:01:39] low cost and because there will be a dispersion of risk,
[00:01:42] this thing you mentioned as a problem that in a dangerous area an insurance
[00:01:46] company may not want to insure, it will be obliged and it will have included it in
[00:01:50] its total risk pool, you are leaving for Domokos,
[00:01:54] very, no, not
[00:01:57] next, take care Mr. Petsas, thank you very much.
[00:13:47] connection, let's go all the way to Bonn or
[00:13:51] Berlin, I think Dimitra Kyranoudi is in Berlin.
[00:13:58] It is the historical headquarters of Deutsche Welle, so
[00:14:01] Bonn has a special significance and a special symbolism, as does the
[00:14:05] Greek service of Deutsche Welle, which has
[00:14:08] played a very significant role over all these decades, for
[00:14:12] information, but also, of course, for culture, and for
[00:14:15] Greece, I would say more broadly. Dimitra
[00:14:18] Kyranoudi with us, the head of the Greek department of
[00:14:22] Deutsche Welle. Good morning Dimitra, we need your help
[00:14:25] to understand all that happened yesterday in
[00:14:29] Leipzig after this, after the detection of a
[00:14:33] drone on the ground at the airport near a
[00:14:36] Ukrainian transport Antonov. Let's see where
[00:14:40] we are and what all this means.
[00:14:43] Good morning from Berlin and thank you for the
[00:14:47] moving introduction to Dio.
[00:14:50] Hello from Berlin too, I should say. Good day from here,
[00:14:54] we now have two headquarters, eh,
[00:14:57] we stayed up all night in Germany yesterday, after this
[00:15:01] extremely serious incident, as it is now
[00:15:05] officially described by the German authorities,
[00:15:09] speaking of a new level of
[00:15:12] threat, as well as of
[00:15:15] a case of hybrid attack,
[00:15:18] as the German Interior Minister said late last
[00:15:21] night, Dobrind,
[00:15:25] stating that it is a hybrid
[00:15:28] attack with a high degree of
[00:15:32] professionalism. We have not seen
[00:15:35] anything similar until now, despite the fact that after
[00:15:38] 2022, sightings,
[00:15:42] recordings of drones in
[00:15:44] Germany have increased in critical
[00:15:48] infrastructures, at airports, military installations,
[00:15:51] and even at energy supply
[00:15:54] installations. Now, what happened at the airport, and these are
[00:15:58] incidents, Dimitra, for which there are
[00:16:01] suspicions but there are no such evidence
[00:16:04] that you can find who it is. Who is
[00:16:08] behind this specific drone, who was flying the drone for example that
[00:16:12] was found yesterday in Leipzig, who was flying the drone for example
[00:16:15] that prevented another aircraft and was directed to
[00:16:18] DHL's Hanover, all these incidents
[00:16:22] come and go and escalate in recent
[00:16:25] months, and it is understood
[00:16:28] that in Germany and in many other European capitals,
[00:16:32] there is an alert. Yes, exactly, let's see what
[00:16:35] we know so far about this... case. It is now
[00:16:38] confirmed to be two distinct cases, two drones.
[00:16:42] The first drone was detected in
[00:16:45] Lemmer. And the second drone
[00:16:49] ultimately, as it seems the second was also a drone,
[00:16:52] although it has not yet been confirmed, but the indications so far
[00:16:56] lead to this conclusion. In the first confirmed case
[00:16:59] now, it is a drone which
[00:17:03] carried an explosive device, a detonator and
[00:17:06] explosive material. It passed various tests which were
[00:17:10] positive, which was neutralized on the ground, on the
[00:17:13] runway, next to a Ukrainian
[00:17:17] transport aircraft of type
[00:17:20] Antonov. A little
[00:17:23] later, and after the runway had been closed,
[00:17:27] traffic had stopped at that particular
[00:17:28] airport, for landing and
[00:17:32] takeoff, a second DHL
[00:17:36] aircraft failed to land at
[00:17:39] Leipzig Halle airport. However,
[00:17:42] as airport authorities reported,
[00:17:46] subsequently this, the second aircraft collided with an unknown
[00:17:49] object, it eventually landed in
[00:17:53] Hanover and there damages were
[00:17:56] recorded. These are therefore the facts we know so far, we do not
[00:18:00] know who is behind this case, where
[00:18:04] these two drones came from, what the motives are,
[00:18:07] of course everyone is talking, the scenarios they are examining are
[00:18:11] sabotage or terrorist
[00:18:14] act. It is important to say in closing that this
[00:18:18] airport is of pivotal importance for NATO and for the
[00:18:21] German armed forces, because from there
[00:18:24] air transport of military equipment
[00:18:28] has been taking place in recent years, mainly towards Ukraine. On the
[00:18:32] other hand, since 2022, this airport has
[00:18:36] also been the base
[00:18:40] of, so it is of pivotal importance for Ukraine as
[00:18:44] well, this airport.
[00:18:47] And we all understand, Dimitra, where the suspicions are directed
[00:18:51] with all this report, and that it is the headquarters of Antonov
[00:18:54] Airlines, which essentially serves Ukraine and the
[00:18:57] sending of material there, so we all understand what's happening. Before
[00:19:01] we close, we can also see a graphic regarding
[00:19:04] the airports in Europe. where
[00:19:08] unidentified flying objects
[00:19:11] of unknown origin and unknown identity have been detected. Yes, we are not talking about
[00:19:15] an isolated incident, and here you can see the dots on the map as
[00:19:18] they have been placed by the Sky graphics team
[00:19:22] and based on the analyses of available reports from various international
[00:19:26] verification teams, disturbances at European airports in the
[00:19:29] last two years have almost quadrupled. We are talking from
[00:19:33] January 2024 until November 2025.
[00:19:41] Indeed, and so we see the incidents, one after the other.
[00:19:45] Come on, Dimitra, just to tell you in closing that we have a statement from the
[00:19:49] Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, who says that no one
[00:19:53] else can be hiding except Russia. The German authorities
[00:19:56] do not name Russia, but it is a fact that in the past,
[00:20:00] in another similar case again at Leipzig airport,
[00:20:04] back then with a DHL package that exploded,
[00:20:08] the German authorities concluded that Russian factors were
[00:20:11] hiding then. Thank you very much, Dimitra, have a good
[00:20:15] day, thank you very much, good morning from Berlin and thank you very
[00:20:19] much to Deutsche Welle and we hope to have Deutsche Welle with
[00:20:23] us for many years to come, let's say this, there have been some
[00:20:26] announcements at this moment, we hope that this historical
[00:20:30] service, Deutsche Welle, and the
[00:20:34] Greek editorial team will be maintained and things will not happen.
[00:20:39] We hope things will go for the best now, hopefully. Let's go to
[00:20:43] our table, let's open a completely different
[00:20:46] discussion. Near us is rather with...
[00:20:50] in connection, but we say near us, because nothing, exactly,
[00:20:53] technology helps us to come closer, Mr. Kostas
[00:20:57] Daltas, lawyer, as well as Mrs. Ioanna
[00:21:00] Konstantinidou, psychologist. Good morning, thank you very much to
[00:21:03] both. So, we will open the
[00:21:07] discussion on a very interesting topic. We have been watching
[00:21:11] these devastating fires in recent days and I would
[00:21:14] like us to talk, Mrs. Konstantinidou, to start this discussion
[00:21:18] from the invisible flames. We will talk,
[00:21:21] therefore, about the psychological trauma caused to the
[00:21:24] people who experienced this situation during which
[00:21:28] they were called to save themselves,
[00:21:31] to save their properties from the flames and at
[00:21:35] this moment they are returning to the place they loved, a paradise, as
[00:21:39] for example, they called Porto Germeno, and
[00:21:42] everything has turned to ashes?
[00:21:46] We are talking about loss, and
[00:21:49] believe me, that this loss of home, that
[00:21:52] is, of roots, of identity, part of identity, a strong part of
[00:21:56] a person's identity, structural, existential, if
[00:21:59] you will, imagine people
[00:22:03] or let's put ourselves in the place of these people, the
[00:22:06] fire victims, losing your roots, losing your childhood
[00:22:10] home or the house for which you built,
[00:22:13] bled, sweated, took loans,
[00:22:16] made plans and dreams for your children.
[00:22:20] And it turns to ashes, so we are talking about a trauma
[00:22:24] comparable to the loss of a loved one,
[00:22:28] and these individuals, the
[00:22:31] fire victims, truly go through the stages
[00:22:34] of grief that we go through when we lose a
[00:22:36] person, a natural loss, and
[00:22:40] in disasters of this type it is like that, yes,
[00:22:43] please, can you remind us what these stages are?
[00:22:47] They are certainly denial, negotiation.
[00:22:58] of all kinds and within all this they have to manage
[00:23:01] bureaucratic matters, so now they have to manage the
[00:23:05] bureaucratic part to get the required
[00:23:09] compensations and so on, and
[00:23:12] we were seeing, Mrs. Konstantinidou, just to add to what Athena was saying a
[00:23:15] while ago, we were seeing testimonies from a resident there who
[00:23:19] said: demolish it an hour earlier, I can't see it
[00:23:22] burned, his house, yes, truly, because
[00:23:25] it activates this person and at every
[00:23:28] hearing of such news,
[00:23:31] exactly, exactly, and at every hearing, unfortunately, next
[00:23:34] year and the year after and every year as is customary, it is not
[00:23:38] a clock, for God's sake, the trauma is prolonged and
[00:23:41] it is activated as if they are reliving it and reliving it and reliving
[00:23:45] it. This is called triggering,
[00:23:49] activation.
[00:23:51] It is an internal focus, if you'll allow me
[00:23:54] the common parallelism,
[00:23:57] because literally it catches fire from a spark and the
[00:24:00] spark is the trigger, that is, what we see, indeed. Here
[00:24:04] we are traumatized, we who are watching the
[00:24:07] situation, it's not just a piece of news. So the goal
[00:24:11] is to prevent psychological catastrophe, and now we will give the
[00:24:15] floor to Mr. Daltas to tell us if
[00:24:18] the state itself could possibly help
[00:24:22] with possible provision of psychological support. It
[00:24:25] would be useful, as we understand.
[00:24:28] Of course it would be useful, I don't know if
[00:24:30] a process has been put in place.
[00:24:33] I think Mrs. Konstantinidou is more
[00:24:36] competent to say that any help and support, as well as the
[00:24:40] compensation of people, is a
[00:24:44] support. I have to tell you that
[00:24:47] I passed through Ilia for quite a few years
[00:24:51] after the deadly fires of 2007, and I saw that these areas
[00:24:54] that had burned were lush green, there was no sign, of course, almost
[00:24:58] over 10 years had passed, but the
[00:25:01] signs that one would expect were
[00:25:04] not there. These areas had obviously
[00:25:08] naturally regenerated, the fact that the
[00:25:11] reconstruction, the compensation for the
[00:25:15] people, I think and the hope for
[00:25:18] it, I think that it will help those people to
[00:25:22] try to heal their wounds, yes, exactly, exactly,
[00:25:26] that is always the price, human
[00:25:29] life, is the ultimate, but beyond that, also properties which
[00:25:33] are the result of a lifetime's efforts, we all understand
[00:25:37] the pain caused, Mr. Daltas, by these cases,
[00:25:40] we must say that in one week we had five
[00:25:44] deaths from the fire services,
[00:25:47] this on the one hand is tragic. It
[00:25:50] also raises some questions. A, will there be
[00:25:53] an investigation into possible responsibilities? We are still at
[00:25:57] an early stage. I must tell you, however, that, for
[00:26:01] example, in the fires in there, the prefect and the
[00:26:05] mayor of Zacharo were considered responsible, but only for Ilia. Yes, only for Ilia for
[00:26:09] the dead, not for Arcadia or Laconia or Evia
[00:26:13] also after years because they had not made
[00:26:15] firebreaks, he said and it was confirmed by the Supreme Court that if firebreaks
[00:26:19] had been made, there would have been no deaths, specifically only in Ilia,
[00:26:23] I repeat, not in Arcadia, Laconia, Evia. I say this
[00:26:26] because it is a criticism of that decision. Also, for
[00:26:30] two weeks the forest of Dadia burned.
[00:26:34] I don't think that no responsibilities have been sought
[00:26:38] for that, as well as for the fires in Evia in 2021. Let's
[00:26:42] see now, because you know, the legislation has been
[00:26:44] tightened, it goes all the way to imprisonment, it goes
[00:26:48] all the way to imprisonment, I must remind you,
[00:26:51] and the sentences with suspension have also been reduced,
[00:26:55] we also see lately that we are now talking about
[00:26:58] prison, certainly, certainly, it is the so-called.
[00:27:02] as we lawyers say, without conversion, without suspension, without
[00:27:06] redemption and so on. Therefore, this issue needs some attention,
[00:27:09] now there are also the tools
[00:27:13] of proof, for example, if
[00:27:16] there were indications that
[00:27:20] the networks had a problem there and the
[00:27:23] responsible parties had realized this and had done nothing, those
[00:27:27] people who would be held responsible for this
[00:27:30] would be in a very difficult position. Exactly, since you are referring to this, Mr.
[00:27:34] Daltas, I think we should also note the progress that has
[00:27:37] been made by the local authorities the investigative services of
[00:27:40] the fire department because now we see complete reports
[00:27:44] e for the cause
[00:27:46] of the and not only reports, we see
[00:27:50] images, we see images, e
[00:27:52] because there are now drones
[00:27:55] which operate from
[00:27:58] various and from the authorities but from various volunteer groups and
[00:28:02] therefore we quickly have an idea of how
[00:28:05] a fire starts because you will remember for years the theory was that
[00:28:09] they were land-grabbing arsonists and finally it turns out that in
[00:28:13] the vast majority of cases it is from sprinklers from the networks
[00:28:16] etc. Now let's go to the issue of Morfin
[00:28:20] because today the 46-year-old who was extradited from
[00:28:23] Britain is expected here in the country. The 46-year-old
[00:28:27] who 16 years after the Marfin tragedy in
[00:28:31] May 2010. The explanations for all that
[00:28:34] she is accused of Mr. Mr. Daltas, yes,
[00:28:37] look, e, we are talking about 16 years
[00:28:41] that the evidence
[00:28:45] presented is quite distant, very
[00:28:48] distant, I would say, from the
[00:28:51] events that have caused a deep trauma in
[00:28:54] Greek society and there is a sensitivity
[00:28:58] e, now it has caused a discussion among us lawyers.
[00:29:01] The fact that evidentiary
[00:29:05] methods are being used, such as artificial intelligence, because the
[00:29:08] perpetrators had their characteristics covered from head to toe, as we say,
[00:29:12] there are some models of proof, e there is
[00:29:16] a discussion, to be honest here,
[00:29:20] e it is not completely baseless, it is not that the authorities acted completely arbitrarily,
[00:29:24] they have reached some conclusions utilizing some evidentiary
[00:29:27] methods, which will of course be put under the judgment of the court, the
[00:29:31] body. The hair, the
[00:29:35] backpack, which had this mark, let's
[00:29:38] say, from a music band, all these are under discussion,
[00:29:42] a discussion has been provoked,
[00:29:45] about the backpack, I mean that there is a very detailed
[00:29:49] analysis and the evidence, according to the police, that is presented,
[00:29:52] yes, of course you understand that there will be, and I have heard
[00:29:56] the lawyers, a strong counter-argument, we cannot
[00:29:59] judge from afar here. First of all, for
[00:30:02] example, even though I have followed, it happens to know
[00:30:05] the position of the accused, I was there, I was not
[00:30:09] there e I am not this, I am this but
[00:30:12] I did not participate, I mean, nothing like that has become known,
[00:30:16] it is a very serious story to deal with
[00:30:19] superficially and epidermally indeed, indeed, now
[00:30:23] at the level of trauma and because we have Mrs. Konstantinidou with us who
[00:30:27] specializes in these matters, Mrs. Konstantinidou, as
[00:30:30] Mr. Daltas said, it is this deep
[00:30:33] trauma in Greek society and that 16 years
[00:30:36] later it is a case that remains open and
[00:30:40] we hope at this stage at least some light will be shed
[00:30:43] to see what happened because 16 years
[00:30:47] later it is an open wound for Greek
[00:30:50] society. It is indeed a collective
[00:30:53] trauma, we have been saying it for years, we have been feeling it for years, this is
[00:30:57] it. Very good.