SUDAN — broadcast
20260920 103000 UTC
518 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] the political forces or experts or
[00:00:03] at freedom of the press, for example, respect to the brothers in specialists on some government policies. I think it was a successful speech,
[00:00:07] but I also blame it for not being
[00:00:10] broadcast completely. Even if the evening broadcast was delayed by an hour,
[00:00:13] let's say what I said directly. I am afraid something might happen, but
[00:00:17] even after the speech ended, it was a strong speech
[00:00:20] was in and a great speech. I conveyed this to the presidential media people,
[00:00:23] and Al-Bukhari
[00:00:30] as we mentioned, many
[00:00:33] and important signals. Perhaps
[00:00:37] the first important signal
[00:00:40] freedoms. I think is that this elaboration in
[00:00:43] in the constitution. It provided the speech of Mr.
[00:00:45] freedoms in the Al-Burhan, I think that the messages contain a large part for abroad,
[00:00:49] the international community as states, and abroad
[00:00:52] as organizations or international mechanisms. For example,
[00:00:56] of the Islamists who were in there is clear talk about the Quartet,
[00:00:59] despite the fact that the day before, the Quint
[00:01:02] met,
[00:01:05] escape. The issue of them offering but he talks about the Quartet. He said that we rejected the Quartet due to the presence of the UAE, but we deal
[00:01:08] with Egypt as it is. And after that,
[00:01:13] of course a rumor. On the same day, also, among as you know, the rest of the countries in the Quartet. Also,
[00:01:18] Hassan seems the messages were to other countries that are aligned with
[00:01:20] the rebellion and are also
[00:01:24] moving the international
[00:01:26] are given to the factions should come from game from behind a curtain. He also talked about the UAE.
[00:01:29] Yes, he talked about the UAE explicitly.
[00:01:32] And I think another
[00:01:35] important thing in his speech
[00:01:39] is when he talked about the dialogue that
[00:01:42] is taking place or the committee that is preparing or paving the way for the dialogue
[00:01:46] now under the leadership of Qasim Badri. He said that
[00:01:50] we, this is a very important point, that we will not
[00:01:53] accept any dialogue
[00:01:56] that comes with outcomes that the people reject. This is a very
[00:02:00] important point. Who are the people meant here?
[00:02:04] that I have a request from They are the groups that supported the army and stood with it
[00:02:06] and fought and sacrificed
[00:02:10] I will tell you about them during greatly, and at the head of the military establishment itself.
[00:02:12] Because he took a very large part of his speech in
[00:02:18] my brother, it is the story of the early beginnings and how the army
[00:02:23] a number of suffered and how the army suffered from the siege at that time. How the sacrifices were made by
[00:02:26] the presidential guard, and this
[00:02:28] to be freedom fighters. But please allow me on is the point that touched me. You know, it talks about
[00:02:31] the enemy being about
[00:02:33] our invitation to dialogue on 20 meters away. Yes, and of course, this
[00:02:36] scene for the listeners from the colleagues is that
[00:02:40] you remember this scene or you imagine it while you
[00:02:44] historic political speech. We, also, on are sitting at the general command, because the meeting took place with
[00:02:47] Al-Burhan at the general command.
[00:02:51] to convey many line with steadfastness. And by the way, there are people standing with So this land of the general command contained, as Muhammad
[00:02:53] Congress itself. There are people standing with Osman Al-Hussein, the former chief of staff, said,
[00:02:56] nearly 2000 martyrs buried inside the land. In this
[00:03:00] year, in this war. So I
[00:03:04] think that his talk about this dialogue,
[00:03:07] even though there were some demands from the media professionals,
[00:03:11] they told him that you must
[00:03:14] the media forum. I expect this adopt this dialogue to strengthen it, meaning as a sovereign council,
[00:03:18] garrisons system. These garrisons in second request, you should adopt the dialogue. You should not
[00:03:19] in fact, is for a number say that I am not a party to this dialogue. As
[00:03:23] The doctor in he mentioned, his adoption of the dialogue
[00:03:27] gives the dialogue more power, even though he urged dialogue
[00:03:31] in its early stages. This committee is a committee
[00:03:33] for preparation, not concerned with the agenda, not concerned
[00:03:36] with anything from, yes, it is a committee
[00:03:40] that clarifies or completes consultations and communication with other
[00:03:43] parties, whether political
[00:03:51] the paragraphs of this speech is that the President talked
[00:03:54] about dialogue and that its recommendations and outcomes are implementable
[00:03:58] unless they violate national constants.
[00:04:01] You toured the coverage, yes, your comment on
[00:04:04] this specific part. By God, the entire meeting, in its entirety, as the brothers mentioned,
[00:04:08] is a historic meeting. The specific part related to the Sudanese-Sudanese
[00:04:12] dialogue. The Sudanese-Sudanese dialogue, of course, is, I mean, Mr.
[00:04:16] President thinks that people should dialogue, and it is a
[00:04:20] desired
[00:04:23] thing, and there is no impediment
[00:04:26] to people talking about
[00:04:29] issues, I mean, issues of power, issues
[00:04:32] of wealth, issues of economy, the relationship
[00:04:35] between religion and the state. All of this is an open
[00:04:39] work. But it should not be a political
[00:04:43] , the Sudanese army, benefit from
[00:04:43] status." Yes, exactly. I came dialogue that involves circumventing the basic issues of the Sudanese people. I mean, it should not
[00:04:47] lead to, for example, recommendations or proposals
[00:04:51] or they dealt with that would bring back the scene, for example, of
[00:04:53] the Rapid Support Forces militia or the Rapid
[00:04:56] is superior in Support Forces rebels. It should not, for example, issue
[00:05:00] recommendations that would bring
[00:05:02] crimes are held accountable back to the scene political forces that want to control the fate of the country without
[00:05:05] elections and without submitting
[00:05:08] to the will of the Sudanese
[00:05:11] people and to the ballot boxes of elections in which the Sudanese people
[00:05:15] decide with their opinion.
[00:05:17] You can say that
[00:05:21] the political forces and the rebellion
[00:05:25] and all these parties
[00:05:28] should be excluded from
[00:05:31] the dialogue
[00:05:35] and from the discussion.
[00:05:38] And people should express
[00:05:42] their opinions. Dialogue and dialogue are
[00:05:45] encouraged by the President
[00:05:48] and by the media,
[00:05:49] and
[00:05:52] that is what is needed. Of course, that is what is needed, and the dialogue committee itself, I think,
[00:05:55] the dialogue committee itself, I mean, it was on the same day
[00:05:58] that the head of the dialogue
[00:06:01] committee resigned on the same day that it was held, unfortunately.
[00:06:04] The head of the dialogue committee had
[00:06:08] submitted his resignation, in addition to the fact
[00:06:11] that it did not affect the dialogue. And it did not
[00:06:13] affect
[00:06:16] it. He denied it. He denied it. But
[00:06:20] if he denied it, then it is
[00:06:26] the things was that the timing was also intended
[00:06:29] to undermine the dialogue or
[00:06:31] undermine
[00:06:34] the discussion about it among the media professionals.
[00:06:38] But the space that the dialogue took,
[00:06:41] I think it was not enough space, even in the name. Even
[00:06:45] brother Hassan Ismail
[00:06:48] warned that the dialogue must be taken seriously and must
[00:06:52] be under the patronage of the state and the interest of the President
[00:06:55] himself. I, Hassan Jibal, tried to get statements
[00:06:58] from him about what he said because I saw discussions
[00:07:01] about Hassan said this, Hassan did not say that, Hassan said this. I was keen to hear from him what
[00:07:05] he said to the President,
[00:07:12] confined my words and said
[00:07:16] the President and three points. In fact, there were
[00:07:19] two requests that I formulated.
[00:07:22] the episode. Okay, the first request, I told him, is the same
[00:07:25] as what the professors and brothers said, that,
[00:07:30] unfair that this dialogue is confined to this hall
[00:07:33] and to the memories of the brothers
[00:07:36] present. So I hope that the President, also
[00:07:40] in support of local channels, will accept
[00:07:46] Sudanese channels and say more
[00:07:49] than this. Because this, as
[00:07:52] you said, is a real
[00:07:56] this specific point, extended an invitation to the President to be on
[00:08:00] Sudan TV and we take this opportunity to renew
[00:08:04] the invitation.
[00:08:06] The way to come to all Sudanese channels,
[00:08:10] the brothers will come
[00:08:12] and discuss all issues with him. This supports the channels themselves because
[00:08:16] the space will take from it, and then he will
[00:08:20] address the Sudanese people more than he addresses the segment
[00:08:23] of media professionals. This was perhaps the first
[00:08:26] request. The
[00:08:32] of journalists who were stationed in the interior
[00:08:35] and were injured and suffered many
[00:08:38] losses. I wanted to ask him to
[00:08:41] adopt them directly with clear and direct
[00:08:45] support, meaning they should not wait for
[00:08:48] the implementation of the recommendations that were made to him in the context of
[00:08:52] protecting journalists and so on. I don't want to say names
[00:08:55] so that it doesn't get like that, but there are a number of them, and it is very
[00:08:59] important that we all stand so that
[00:09:02] they are supported directly by the palace
[00:09:06] because the journalists, specifically, who were present and who suffered
[00:09:09] many damages, their role is no less than the role
[00:09:12] of even the members of the military establishment, because
[00:09:16] if the people of the military establishment protected the President and protected the institutions,
[00:09:20] the brothers who were present protected the narrative.
[00:09:23] For example, our brother Muhammad Hamid Juma, with what happened to him,
[00:09:26] he had clippings that he sent
[00:09:30] to a number of people, circulating them to channels
[00:09:33] in the first month after the injury of Muhammad Hamid. So I also think this is his right.
[00:09:37] And the two main things are
[00:09:40] the issue of dialogue. I told them it is very important that you adopt the dialogue
[00:09:43] yourself, not just adopt it, but sit at the head
[00:09:47] of the dialogue table, because you have opponents. Yes,
[00:09:51] because the state has a responsibility. The state
[00:09:54] has a responsibility towards managing the dialogue between
[00:09:58] the factions. So when you say committee,
[00:10:01] by God, that means you are opening the door to other
[00:10:04] initiatives. I mean, you now, in the media, some people say,
[00:10:08] my brother, we want to form a committee other than Qasim Badri's
[00:10:11] committee, and he himself opens a gap in this
[00:10:14] issue. And in fact, people's trust
[00:10:18] now in the party club is very
[00:10:20] shaken and very weak. With all due
[00:10:26] the committee, they are all professors and there is respect
[00:10:29] and relations and so on between them. But Mr.
[00:10:32] Al-Sadiq has a saying that I remember. He
[00:10:36] was, in the appointment of Imam Abd al-Rahman, he used to collect
[00:10:39] a group of visions, meaning he formed a group of committees for visions. So there were
[00:10:42] visions from university professors. So I
[00:10:45] the secretariat,
[00:10:48] so he says, "Take the vision," and the last thing
[00:10:50] was his vision
[00:10:53] of university professors.
[00:10:55] So I told him, "I have not seen this vision." He said to me,
[00:10:59] "My brother, with apologies, I am just quoting. He said to me, 'These
[00:11:03] academics, you ask them for a vision, and you take
[00:11:06] 20% of it, you implement 5% of it, and you are thanked
[00:11:10] for the remaining 80%.'"
[00:11:14] Especially since the matter is political. So
[00:11:17] he did not mean me in this story, but I want General Al-Burhan to adopt
[00:11:21] the issue because you are now one of the traps that
[00:11:24] supports dialogue in Ethiopia and dialogue in Nairobi
[00:11:28] and dialogue in Geneva and so on, as if these countries want
[00:11:32] to take the matter for themselves, while this is an inherent
[00:11:35] right of the state. So don't say, "Well, my brother, we
[00:11:39] the President gave us guarantees." Why would the President give guarantees
[00:11:43] in this matter? They said, "Yes, let the committee be the
[00:11:46] source of handling, meaning the guarantees that
[00:11:51] the leadership directly to the Sudanese people." You are objecting that people
[00:12:04] gave something without anything in return, because the person you acquitted
[00:12:07] of the charges is now working to promote chemical
[00:12:10] weapons. How can you guarantee that the person coming to the dialogue will say, "By God, this
[00:12:14] amnesty or this just procedure that I am doing
[00:12:17] is for the person who comes to the dialogue, not for you,
[00:12:20] Mr. Hassan, did you drop the charges or just freeze them?" Here is the point.
[00:12:24] I think our brother, the Minister of Justice,
[00:12:28] said that the President approved dropping the charges. The statement was about dropping
[00:12:31] the charges, in addition to the siege.
[00:12:34] It was distinguished. I wished he would say, "Well, my brother, this
[00:12:37] amnesty procedure is for the person who believes in the legitimacy
[00:12:41] of the state and will come to dialogue
[00:12:44] and so on." But he is still a criminal
[00:12:46] employed.
[00:12:49] The strange thing is that the Attorney General, or Lemass, was protesting these charges
[00:12:53] in the Human Rights Council.
[00:13:03] He himself, Talal, I mean, Mr. Hassan, excuse
[00:13:05] me for interrupting, such a measure
[00:13:09] gives a future opportunity for, for example, anyone
[00:13:13] to go and curse the state and ally with foreigners
[00:13:16] and embrace them and then come back. This is a serious matter because
[00:13:20] they will not come, Abu Khari, but this serious matter,
[00:13:23] I told General Al-Burhan, I told
[00:13:27] him that the year is new now.
[00:13:30] These Sudanese politicians are accustomed to
[00:13:34] not being held accountable. No politician
[00:13:37] is held accountable. Yasser Arman burned the Blue
[00:13:40] Nile. He was received as a hero in the protest
[00:13:43] square, as a hero, and this is a legacy of struggle. You burn hermitages, you burn
[00:13:47] mosques, you burn this. This does not exist anywhere in the world. Opposition
[00:13:51] has limits. You don't oppose the state. You oppose the authority.
[00:13:55] You don't oppose the country and oppose the army. This
[00:13:58] Sudanese politician is the only one who has immunity from accountability.
[00:14:02] A politician is not held accountable for his mistakes and is not punished for saying whatever
[00:14:06] he wants and doing whatever he wants, and then he becomes a hero. He becomes
[00:14:09] a hero. And Fadel Allah Al-Munaser said it a month ago. He said,
[00:14:13] "Brothers, do not be alarmed." He told people, "Do not be alarmed. This story would
[00:14:16] have continued as a war." He told people, "Do not be alarmed," meaning
[00:14:20] that if this story had continued, we would have stayed in our government.
[00:14:23] If there was a reconciliation, we would return to Khartoum guaranteed. Yes,
[00:14:27] violations, abuses, burning of the country, etc., etc.
[00:14:30] And he knows where this story is going. And there is a very
[00:14:34] important and contradictory thing, I mean, that the complaints
[00:14:37] against journalists are still open and have not been dropped yet,
[00:14:40] compared to politicians. This
[00:14:44] issue, I mean, we have a problem with politicians.
[00:14:47] The privilege that politicians established for themselves
[00:14:51] and so on is what caused these problems for us. I mean, the story that
[00:14:55] this politician is guaranteed, "I am a fighter."
[00:14:58] "I opposed the state, I am a fighter."
[00:15:02] "I will do anything, burn Heglig, burn the oil, burn this. I am
[00:15:06] a fighter, I deserve high
[00:15:08] and reconciled, I am a partner in the government, Mr.
[00:15:12] Talal, without interrupting Mr. Hassan, the
[00:15:15] deletion itself was based on
[00:15:19] political justifications and political opinions. Political opinion
[00:15:22] is not a problem, but people who committed crimes,
[00:15:27] by law. The criminal law holds them accountable for the crimes
[00:15:30] they committed. The armed forces law holds them accountable. And truly,
[00:15:33] to your words, Dr. Hassan, we had with us Maulana Rawda
[00:15:37] Idris, the representative of the Public Prosecutor in the committee of crimes
[00:15:40] and militia violations, and we had with us the guest Nabila Dib.
[00:15:44] So a discussion took place between the two of them, and she said
[00:15:47] that as a prosecution, it does not know something called political crimes. It knows that these
[00:15:50] people have criminal charges open against them.
[00:15:53] And therefore, yes, according to the law,
[00:15:57] therefore, the definition of political crime itself is not available
[00:16:00] to her as a prosecutorial
[00:16:03] confusion about the issue because political opinion is not a problem at all.
[00:16:06] This was Maulana's
[00:16:17] opinion. These are criminal offenses punishable by law. They are striving
[00:16:21] to confirm the fabrication of chemical weapons, and you know it's a fabrication. I mean, you are
[00:16:25] not unaware of the matter. You are fully aware that this is a fabrication. Yes, that's right.
[00:16:29] And you come and, yes, for example,
[00:16:32] you incite against the Shifa factory today, and tomorrow you become the Minister of Interior,
[00:16:36] as happened. So, brothers, this
[00:16:40] cycle must be closed. Yes, this cycle,
[00:16:43] after that, especially since we resort to the general law
[00:16:47] of the state. I keep telling General Al-Burhan, "You are
[00:16:49] lucky." I mean, in Bashir's time and so on, the opposition
[00:16:53] had weight. John Garang, Farouk Abu Issa, Sadiq
[00:16:56] Al-Mahdi, Maulana Muhammad Osman Al-Mirghani. Your opponents
[00:17:00] do not have the
[00:17:03] East to empower them. The civilian force that ruled at one point, yes.
[00:17:41] I just heard Maryam Al-Sadiq two
[00:17:43] days ago,
[00:17:46] about the Umma Party's stance on so-and-so. So she said, "Well, we
[00:17:50] agreed that we will not
[00:17:52] issue a decision to overthrow Fadel Allah Bermnasser, and we will not issue
[00:17:56] a decision."
[00:17:59] He sits in his place and organizes in the name of the Umma
[00:18:00] Party.
[00:18:06] Okay, this is a party. What is a party? A party
[00:18:10] has a political line. A party has six political
[00:18:12] lines. They choke us. The Umma
[00:18:15] Party, the Umma Party, just the Sudanese
[00:18:17] Congress. This small Sudanese Congress, this small
[00:18:21] microscopic entity, has how many political lines? There is a political line with establishment, and a political
[00:18:27] the state in the Sudanese
[00:18:30] the state. Okay, what is the party? The party is not
[00:18:34] so-and-so. The party is a political line, a political line. Okay, when I have a party
[00:18:37] with 16 political lines, I cannot call it a party. Okay,
[00:18:41] where do these parties get their funding? I mean, now
[00:18:44] I am a party leader. I come and talk about corruption.
[00:18:48] Corruption, corruption. Leave it. Where is your house rented from?
[00:18:52] It's a party that cannot disclose its funding sources. I listened
[00:18:55] to Dr. Dr.
[00:19:00] the Communist Party,
[00:19:03] Sidgi Kabello, yes,
[00:19:08] he said that Ali Karti is corrupt because the dismantling
[00:19:11] committee said he has 90
[00:19:12] plots of land. 90 pieces of
[00:19:16] land. So he was in a discussion in a group,
[00:19:20] I mean, 90 shops. Is ownership
[00:19:24] in itself corruption? Corruption is the source
[00:19:27] of ownership. I mean, is there a law that prevents me from having 90
[00:19:31] or 900? Then what determines it? I told him, "Your words are corruption. The fact
[00:19:34] that you are sitting in a chair, and you are not a judicial authority. You can
[00:19:38] rule that so-and-so is corrupt because he has this." Okay, did you take
[00:19:42] this case to court or not? So these party
[00:19:45] forces were given an opportunity to establish judicial institutions,
[00:19:49] to establish the value of separation of powers. They wasted
[00:19:52] this opportunity. The military,
[00:19:55] with the investment of General Al-Burhan. General
[00:19:58] Al-Burhan said, "They came and told us to stay. We want to stay for 10
[00:20:01] years without a legislative council and without a court." There is a statement
[00:20:05] by Bakri Faisal denying this issue,
[00:20:08] and this is not the first time this has been said. This was said by Hamati
[00:20:12] two years ago. The three
[00:20:15] years is the biggest proof that these are parties that have no
[00:20:18] influence. Is it a fabricated narrative? Okay, he said
[00:20:22] that Hamati in 2021 promised,
[00:20:24] and Bashir, General Al-Burhan, now confirmed it.
[00:20:28] General Al-Burhan now confirmed it.
[00:20:31] So this is, I mean, a force that killed people
[00:20:34] and killed its public and killed its vital circle in the sit-in square.
[00:20:37] They conspired and did not bring anyone to trial,
[00:20:41] as Sadiq Youssef said. He said that the number of people killed from 2019
[00:20:44] to 2021 is more than the number of people killed from
[00:20:48] 2013 to 2019. Due to the sit-in? No,
[00:20:51] their partners, who said this story, Hamati, said
[00:20:55] that we agreed on this story. This Hamati participated with us. He was a partner.
[00:20:59] He said that the story of the sit-in, do not include yourselves in it, because
[00:21:03] we all agreed on this story.
[00:21:06] This is what Hamati said, but let's not take Hamati's words. Let's not
[00:21:10] take Hamati's words. Why did you not bring anyone to trial? Because they are now starting to accuse
[00:21:14] General Al-Burhan. They went back again and said, "General Al-Burhan, when you were
[00:21:18] sitting at the feet of the General in the Sovereign Council, why did you not bring
[00:21:22] him to trial? Why did you not bring the Rapid Support Forces to trial? Why did
[00:21:25] you not bring anyone to trial?" But they want to exploit
[00:21:29] this issue and silence it at the moment. A political
[00:21:32] card, I mean, a card of blackmail, not a political
[00:21:36] card, a card of cheap blackmail.
[00:21:39] In front of the sit-in, the force that broke it up so that people would not
[00:21:43] ask them, they used to say, "By God, the books
[00:21:46] power were the ones who broke up the sit-in." Okay, the books of Islam,
[00:21:50] they have no escape from this issue. The issue of breaking up the sit-in, they have no
[00:21:55] the military to stay for ten years because this is a narrative that Hamati said
[00:21:59] before, and General Al-Burhan
[00:22:01] confirmed it
[00:22:04] now. Okay,
[00:22:08] to be very biased against civilians,
[00:22:12] even though he is a civilian. But his
[00:22:15] opponents accuse him now of supporting and being a backer
[00:22:18] of the military. Mr. Mustafa Abu Al-Azzam's
[00:22:22] narration of Hassan, and I think this
[00:22:25] is a very objective
[00:22:29] reading of events, and he supports
[00:22:32] it with evidence
[00:22:35] and statements that were previously made.
[00:22:39] And it's not a fabrication. It's not a fabrication against
[00:22:41] these forces that he referred to,
[00:22:44] and I think if they had
[00:22:48] the ability
[00:22:50] to deny what was circulated, they would have said it at the time,
[00:22:54] and they would have said, "We will reveal the facts that are coming." And this did not happen,
[00:22:57] unfortunately. My personal expectation is that during the coming
[00:23:00] days, there will probably also
[00:23:04] be a frank meeting, as mentioned by Mr.
[00:23:07] Hassan, as you pointed out, between
[00:23:10] General Al-Burhan and
[00:23:13] political
[00:23:15] forces that are currently on the scene
[00:23:19] and between some
[00:23:22] media professionals. I mean, an expectation, not leaks. I told you
[00:23:25] expectations.
[00:23:28] Information from special sources. I expect this to happen within
[00:23:31] the next two days, no more than two days. And this is in the context of creating an environment
[00:23:35] for the committee to prepare the ongoing Sudanese dialogue to go in the same direction,
[00:23:39] and also
[00:23:41] facts. It will be an opportunity to convey them to the Sudanese
[00:23:50] there will be an
[00:23:54] agreement on everything
[00:23:57] that was put forward in terms of
[00:24:01] recommendations from
[00:24:04] because until now, there is no clear action. That's why I said
[00:24:07] this, I mean, an inference. I expect this. I mean, of course,
[00:24:11] with journalistic instinct, I feel
[00:24:14] you have information,
[00:24:16] but this civilian one refrains from
[00:24:29] for example, what does that mean? Does
[00:24:33] it mean, for example,
[00:24:37] that it opposes the military? I mean, if
[00:24:40] the military is a force
[00:24:43] and civilian is a force, then this is a state of conflict.
[00:24:47] I think the definition of civilian here
[00:24:50] lacks a lot. Secondly, the civilian
[00:24:53] forces are also the forces that called themselves civilian forces, forces of freedom
[00:24:57] and change. They monopolized this title and excluded others.
[00:25:01] They considered that others do not have the parties, the
[00:25:04] other political forces, have no relation. The Islamic forces, the national
[00:25:08] forces, the traditional parties, all of these
[00:25:11] they consider to be non-civilian forces, and they consider
[00:25:15] themselves to be only
[00:25:18] civilians. Then, secondly, civilian
[00:25:21] has conditions: that you resort to the people, that you hold
[00:25:25] elections, that you do not
[00:25:28] engage in work in a transitional
[00:25:31] government. They did all of these things. They
[00:25:34] conspired, they conspired even with
[00:25:37] the Rapid Support Forces,
[00:25:41] the military. They conspired against democracy itself.
[00:25:45] I mean, the December revolution, as they call it,
[00:25:48] did not produce a democratic transition, nor did it lead
[00:25:51] to democracy. Democracy is
[00:25:54] perhaps one of the fruits
[00:25:57] of change, but even people think that even the salvation
[00:26:01] was more democratic than them. Even if you look
[00:26:05] during the salvation, we were journalists. We used to write what we
[00:26:09] wanted during the salvation. When these forces came,
[00:26:12] they controlled the newspapers and sent the Rapid Support
[00:26:16] Forces with tanks to the newspaper houses. How is that,
[00:26:19] Doctor? You hold the matter responsible for the period after
[00:26:23] 2019 and absolve 30
[00:26:26] years of direct responsibility in the same file. You won't be able to
[00:26:30] blame it all on 2019.
[00:26:39] But the Salvation provided
[00:26:43] it provided freedoms in the constitutions,
[00:26:47] laws. It provided freedoms in practice. It is true that
[00:26:51] there were confiscations, but all of them were, if you look at them,
[00:26:55] you will find them within the framework of the public interest. They might be acceptable.
[00:26:59] But they completely silenced voices and did not allow any
[00:27:02] other voice to rise above it or to tell
[00:27:06] them that there are mistakes. Okay,
[00:27:09] Hassan, of course, because he is a program presenter,
[00:27:12] he asked me a question about what happened in 32 years. So I will go back
[00:27:16] to him and break the professional rules. I will not say,
[00:27:19] but others say that we are now harvesting
[00:27:23] what the Salvation sowed, and they always use
[00:27:26] the example that the Rapid Support Forces are a legitimate child
[00:27:30] of Bashir. And this
[00:27:38] is the same point that Mr. Hassan, who was a minister
[00:27:41] of information, referred to. If we are not objective,
[00:27:45] then it is very important that you also respond to these issues
[00:27:48] that we are discussing in their context.
[00:27:52] For example, people blame Bashir for forming the Rapid
[00:27:55] Support Forces,
[00:27:58] but we do not blame the rebellion that occurred in 2003. We consider it
[00:28:02] a struggle. We do not blame the burning of El Fasher Airport.
[00:28:05] We do not blame the long
[00:28:08] arm operation.
[00:28:11] We do not blame the burning of Heglig
[00:28:13] and Karshola. We consider this to be a problem,
[00:28:17] and that is a struggle. It is not the problem
[00:28:19] that the dictionary, the dictionary of political discourse,
[00:28:23] is based on deceiving people. Khalid
[00:28:26] Omar, they considered Jibril and Minawi
[00:28:35] military support for the army, whatever it is, whether it is
[00:28:38] rapid support or border guards, while it is possible to entice the army
[00:28:42] modern
[00:28:45] You don't bring a comb, bring a comb in your forces in a place at a time if you had
[00:28:48] time, let's explain this story. Let's explain this story. The Sudanese
[00:28:52] army was founded by the English
[00:28:55] kitchen. The English kitchen, with the English
[00:28:59] army, fights with the box system. It
[00:29:02] moves in a box shape, a box, yes it's effective, meaning its
[00:29:06] fighting behavior is a defensive behavior.
[00:29:09] The range of the attack is very limited, meaning
[00:29:13] it's not a defensive attack, meaning it moves with this box, closes it, and moves
[00:29:17] and so on, even the
[00:29:20] cities are present, army garrisons are
[00:29:22] present. They don't, meaning they don't leave
[00:29:26] their headquarters.
[00:29:29] The rebellions in the rebellion of South Sudan,
[00:29:32] Jaafar Nimeiri fought with the help of supporting forces,
[00:29:35] and by the way, this is the same pattern. When the English
[00:29:39] invade, they attack they don't attack with the English army, they don't attack with the main
[00:29:42] body of the English army, they attack with supporting forces, meaning
[00:29:46] meaning the opening of Sudan, this Sudanese
[00:29:49] was not done with English forces, it was done with forces, part Sudanese and part
[00:29:53] Albanian and part this and part that and part this. The army
[00:29:56] was established with this school
[00:29:58] and that's it. It became conservative on the methodology.
[00:30:02] This, when the rebellion happened in South Sudan, there was a
[00:30:06] problem in responding to the rebellion. Nimeiri was forced
[00:30:09] to use supporting forces. Then the Salvation also used supporting
[00:30:12] forces. Then came the new situation of rebellions in Darfur, which are these
[00:30:16] mobile forces, which are the people who ride those street vendors, who
[00:30:20] hit and return. You needed a new pattern. A rebellion that enters
[00:30:24] the failure. You will not go and say, "By God, a rental pattern."
[00:30:27] Exactly the same operations. I mean,
[00:30:30] I think that the reasons. Rather, what created or pushed the government
[00:30:34] at some point to create the Rapid
[00:30:37] Support Forces was the pattern of fighting that was produced by the armed movements.
[00:30:41] Now, we
[00:30:45] the supporting forces. This is a militia in
[00:30:49] the same tactics. Now, it is harming
[00:30:53] the Rapid Support Forces more than the army does, by the way. The army
[00:30:59] aviation.