SYRIANNEWS — broadcast
20261105 100000 UTC
301 transcript segments
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[00:00:49] early on. In political life, you were one of the founders
[00:00:52] of the Damascus Declaration in 2005. You were arrested in
[00:00:55] 2007 for two and a half years,
[00:00:57] and religious then quickly joined the Syrian we are living it now. I mean, in revolution in political activism. Islamic geography, "Let
[00:01:01] There was a stage during
[00:01:04] the Syrian revolution, from
[00:01:05] wise from the coalition to the interim government to the constitutional committee,
[00:01:08] and between supporters and opponents of this
[00:01:12] tortured, exhausted, unable political experience. This
[00:01:23] one of our professors in your life was not limited or confined
[00:01:27] to the dental clinic, but that political
[00:01:30] and social questions in Syria and in Syrian society
[00:01:34] Fajr. I mean, this would take you to a wide
[00:01:36] been explicitly stated. When there is and broader path than the clinic and would require
[00:02:42] and my father, may God have mercy
[00:02:46] in
[00:03:32] afflict except for a sin.
[00:03:39] However, prioritizing the Sunnah over rooted in age, rooted in
[00:03:41] that books
[00:05:11] in the eighties. You know the dangerous crisis that we faced.
[00:05:15] We were born in '65, young, and therefore,
[00:05:19] God Almighty spared us from entering into this crisis, and we did not go
[00:05:23] to
[00:05:26] organizations at that
[00:05:36] including my dear brother Muhammad Barro,
[00:05:39] were about 16 years old. Even
[00:05:42] teenagers and those who were involved, whether they entered or not, I mean, my uncle,
[00:05:46] who was 15, was a month older than me, and yet
[00:05:50] in '80, they took him to
[00:05:53] Palmyra prison and he remained there until
[00:06:09] was happening and we didn't understand why
[00:06:13] all these events were happening
[00:06:16] and why
[00:06:18] the religious current or the conservative current was always
[00:06:22] afflicted, to find
[00:06:33] Saeed. They were leaders of the Brotherhood in the 1980s,
[00:06:35] meaning in Deir ez-Zor. Yes, in Deir ez-Zor.
[00:06:39] Exactly. How was it in the seventies? In the eighties,
[00:06:43] you know that everyone was, well, the
[00:06:47] organization in Syria was completely eliminated. But the organization was secret. I mean, there were
[00:06:51] public, well-known leaders,
[00:06:54] the general supervisor, and at the same time, there were secret leaders inside Syria,
[00:06:57] hiding. I mean, what was your father's and uncle's
[00:07:09] massacre on June 27,
[00:07:13] 1980, Law
[00:07:15] No. 49 was submitted to the Syrian People's Assembly, which stipulated the execution
[00:07:19] of anyone belonging to the Muslim
[00:07:24] basis, everyone who belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood was forced to submit
[00:07:28] their withdrawal and leave the group. This was combined
[00:07:32] with the enormous number of arrests
[00:07:34] and the amount of torture that all Islamic
[00:07:38] currents were subjected to at that time. Therefore,
[00:07:41] you can say that political work after 1980
[00:07:44] no longer existed in Syria. Uh-huh.
[00:07:46] And this, by the way, we may touch
[00:07:50] upon it later, it played a major role in
[00:07:54] the international community's lack of understanding of Islamists in
[00:07:57] Syria, as they
[00:08:01] still believed that the momentum and strength of the Islamic
[00:08:05] seventies in Syria continued until the Syrian
[00:08:09] revolution and then after the Syrian revolution.
[00:09:43] the positive, sudden shift was in
[00:09:46] 1992 when they were released,
[00:09:49] and one of the surprises was that many of them
[00:09:52] spoke with utmost clarity and frankness that
[00:09:56] we must conduct reviews,
[00:09:59] reviews of the ideas that we hold,
[00:10:03] and that the ideas that we held
[00:10:06] turned into behavior,
[00:10:08] and the repetition of behavior turns into personality.
[00:10:12] The combination of personalities turns into culture.
[00:10:16] And this was not taken into
[00:10:20] account in our societies,
[00:10:23] whether Arab societies or Islamic societies, or even Syrian societies.
[00:10:26] Whereas, if we had
[00:10:30] in Syria, the Arab world, and the Islamic world great sociologists
[00:10:34] who studied such issues, perhaps
[00:10:37] they would have moved
[00:10:40] people towards another world.
[00:10:43] Aha, because no renaissance can take
[00:10:46] place without thinkers, without
[00:10:49] wise men who tell people or
[00:10:52] generate great ideas.
[00:10:56] The existence of a group of wise people, especially
[00:10:59] university graduates, or let's say high school
[00:11:02] graduates who understand what the
[00:11:05] wise men say. By the way, the country's wise men do not need more than
[00:11:09] 40-50
[00:11:11] ideas. And usually, these are elderly people,
[00:11:15] their ages exceed 60 or 65. It is difficult for them to
[00:11:19] engage in society. Who transmits these
[00:11:22] ideas to the public along with the
[00:11:26] wise? The wise understand what the wise men say, then transmit them to
[00:12:26] even this is one of the problems we faced in the Syrian
[00:12:30] revolution, that the diagnosis was not
[00:12:33] done in the way doctors diagnose. Doctors' diagnosis
[00:12:35] has four stages: diagnosis
[00:12:39] of the symptom, then reaching knowledge
[00:12:42] of the organs that
[00:12:46] disease, then knowing the causes that led to the infection
[00:12:49] of these organs in the human body, then studying
[00:12:52] the environment in which the disease originated.
[00:14:40] who approve
[00:14:44] legislation and approve
[00:14:47] political decisions through
[00:14:51] consultations or, I mean, political consultants
[00:14:54] and... deputies or those who come up with innovative ideas
[00:14:58] or those who criticize dead ideas in society
[00:15:02] or fatal ideas, as he used to say. Correct, but I am talking about the state level.
[00:15:05] Yes, at the state level, certainly,
[00:15:09] the wise ruler is a statesman,
[00:15:13] and there is a big difference between a statesman and an amateur.
[00:15:16] In a recent
[00:15:20] lecture, I said that one of the biggest
[00:15:24] problems in Syria over the past 100 years is that we have always
[00:15:28] sought the desired
[00:15:30] state,
[00:15:32] but we have not been able to achieve it. Why have we not been able
[00:15:36] to achieve it, even though we had a historical
[00:15:38] opportunity after independence to
[00:15:42] establish a state?
[00:15:45] In fact, some international researchers, led
[00:15:48] by Gordon Torrey,
[00:15:51] wondered in his book
[00:15:54] titled "Syrian Politics and the Military between
[00:15:56] 1945 and 1958,"
[00:15:59] why the democratic project failed in Syria, why the military
[00:16:03] seized power in Syria, and how.
[00:16:06] And the third question, which is the most dangerous and important, is why he believed—and
[00:16:09] he wrote this book in 1963—he
[00:16:13] believed that military rule would last for a very, very long time in
[00:16:16] Syria. And he concluded that there are real
[00:16:20] problems in the structure of the Syrian people. This cannot
[00:16:23] be resolved except with the presence of an intellectual elite,
[00:16:27] first of all,
[00:16:30] wise men who can diagnose
[00:16:34] the sick reality in Syria throughout the past 100 years.
[00:16:38] Then they conclude with results that the
[00:16:43] the wise men carry and transmit to the common people. In a very important
[00:16:46] book called "Revolution Without Revolutionaries"
[00:16:49] by the American writer of Iranian origin, Asef
[00:16:53] Bayat, he made
[00:16:57] book between Khomeini's revolution in
[00:17:00] 1979 and the Arab Spring revolution in Egypt
[00:17:04] during Morsi's time. He concluded that there were a number
[00:17:07] of points that should have been taken into consideration, among them,
[00:17:11] for example, that in the Iranian revolution, there were thinkers who generated
[00:17:15] ideas, such as Ali Shariati. Ali Shariati focused
[00:17:18] his entire life on half a line, which is
[00:17:21] social
[00:17:22] justice.
[00:17:26] Between us and Egypt, there were no great thinkers who generated such
[00:17:29] ideas. Also, in
[00:17:31] Iran, there was a charismatic personality, Khomeini's personality,
[00:17:34] who was able to greatly influence people.
[00:17:38] Then, at that time, there was the intermediate society, who were
[00:17:41] the wise people who were conveying these ideas to
[00:17:45] the common people, and the common people by nature in Iran,
[00:17:48] according to the Shiite structural composition,
[00:17:53] On the contrary, Syrians, regardless of his point of view, in the end, it's a researcher's
[00:17:57] point of view. Some believe that there were thinkers and wise people, but
[00:18:01] subsequent events led
[00:18:04] things to where they ended up. But let's go back to
[00:18:07] the nineties, the first stop, or
[00:18:17] the eighties you were a child and you were asking questions:
[00:18:21] Why is this happening? Why are people being arrested? Why
[00:18:24] is Hafez al-Assad so authoritarian? Why are people being killed? And
[00:18:27] so on. But in '92, when
[00:18:32] releases of detainees began,
[00:18:35] you started hearing from them the word "reviews." Of course, reviewing
[00:18:38] mistakes. We want to, I mean,
[00:18:41] focus on this point: What does "review" mean?
[00:18:44] And what was the discussion exactly about which mistakes
[00:19:15] in Islamic movements, says that the more
[00:19:19] we increase in suffering
[00:19:22] and pain, the closer we get to God. And this is not
[00:19:26] true. This is a prevalent opinion, of course, and,
[00:19:29] I mean, a prevalent description. I mean, fair and just. I do not
[00:19:33] agree with it, and this was one of our reviews as a result
[00:19:45] prevalent at that time. Of course, the conviction was
[00:19:48] that the more we suffered,
[00:19:52] the closer we got to God, and that God Almighty had decreed
[00:19:55] this upon us,
[00:19:59] and that these sufferings are a test from God
[00:21:04] the reviews that we discussed with our group of young people
[00:21:07] and brothers in Deir ez-Zor initially, and then in
[00:21:11] Syria in general,
[00:21:13] is
[00:21:15] that there are many, many concepts that
[00:21:18] need to be corrected, otherwise the Muslim mind
[00:21:21] will not be saved. Our conviction was that
[00:21:25] there were deep injuries that afflicted the Muslim mind
[00:21:29] across
[00:21:31] generations, especially after the control of the Salafi current
[00:21:35] at an early stage. The school of Ahl al-Hadith
[00:21:38] and Athar on all aspects
[00:21:40] of intellectual,
[00:21:43] social,
[00:21:47] life in the second Hijri century,
[00:21:50] and the crushing of the rationalist school, the crushing of the
[00:21:53] Mu'tazilite school. This led to
[00:21:56] the prevalence
[00:21:58] of the idea
[00:22:02] that the literal, unadulterated text
[00:22:07] delving deeper into understanding the religious
[00:23:04] text a fixed understanding
[00:23:08] that does not change with the change of time
[00:23:11] and place? I mean, one of the points that
[00:23:15] the young generation took great issue with
[00:23:17] was the understanding of Sheikh Nasseruddin,
[00:23:40] according to what our sheikhs understood.
[00:23:43] What the Messenger said according to what we corrected from hadiths.
[00:23:47] What the companions said according to what we imagined from their sayings. You know the discussion that
[00:23:51] happened according to what we imagined. Of course, the discussion happened
[00:23:54] in contemporary books. There was a discussion
[00:23:57] between what Imam Al-Shawkani, may God have mercy on him, presented and what
[00:24:00] Imam Muhammad Abu Zahra presented about the authoritativeness of the companion's
[00:24:04] saying, etc., etc. What I want to get to
[00:24:08] is that
[00:24:11] Muslim mind at an early stage of Islamic
[00:24:14] history, which resulted in
[00:24:18] the prevalence of the school of Athar and Hadith, even though the Prophetic
[00:24:21] Sunnah is agreed upon by everyone as the second pillar or the second
[00:24:25] source of legislation.
[00:24:29] the Holy Quran had consequences.
[00:24:33] I mean, it reduced the possibility of what
[00:24:43] said in their definition of the Sunnah that the Prophetic
[00:24:47] Sunnah is the Prophet's understanding of the Quran in his
[00:24:50] era.
[00:24:52] Therefore,
[00:24:55] there became a possibility to find a kind of
[00:24:59] coexistence with contemporary
[00:25:02] proposals
[00:25:36] It is not but a revelation revealed," if you read the context, it is exclusively in the Holy Quran, in the Holy
[00:25:40] Quran. I just want to point out that there are
[00:25:43] intellectual schools that have discussed this
[00:26:01] However, Omar ibn al-Khattab, our master Omar ibn al-Khattab, may God be pleased with him, when in the time
[00:26:05] of famine, in the year of famine,
[00:26:08] he suspended the ruling of
[00:26:18] be pleased with him, issued a fatwa in a matter that seems very clear
[00:26:21] regarding inheritance. Yes, he issued a fatwa in a certain
[00:26:24] year and then in the following
[00:26:27] year, others came to ask for a fatwa on a similar
[00:26:31] matter, but not necessarily identical.
[00:26:35] So he gave them a different fatwa than the one he gave the previous year in an inheritance
[00:26:45] He said to them, "That was according to what we ruled, and this is according to what
[00:26:48] we rule." Uh-huh, according to his calculation. So there are
[00:26:52] differences, the time factor, the temporal circumstance, the spatial circumstance, also
[00:26:59] no one pray Asr except in Banu Qurayza."
[00:27:02] I mean, look, this particular incident gives you an idea,
[00:27:06] as if it's a clear lesson. Certainly,
[00:27:09] especially the Prophet, peace be upon him, did not
[00:27:13] blame the conservatives and did not blame the rationalists
[00:27:16] who found that the Prophet, peace be upon him, told
[00:27:19] us this exactly. While, for example, Ibn Hazm al-Zahiri, whose
[00:27:23] school prevailed for a period of time, always
[00:27:26] said that no companion had the right
[00:27:30] to pray Asr except in Banu Qurayza, even if they did not
[00:27:34] arrive until
[00:27:43] especially since its
[00:27:59] we are in dire need
[00:28:03] for Islamic proposals to be logical
[00:28:07] to contradict the clear
[00:28:10] to contradict the sound transmitted text
[00:28:14] nor the clear intellect. I mean, when
[00:28:17] there are things that flatly contradict clear intellect,
[00:28:21] I mean, we also need
[00:28:24] to respect this intellect that God Almighty created and with which
[00:28:28] He blessed many nations.
[00:28:31] he thinks in contradictions,
[00:28:33] and by the way, that is,
[00:28:36] one of the most important proposals being put forward now to save the Muslim
[00:28:40] mind is to extract it from the great
[00:28:42] contradictions in it between behavior and emotion, between
[00:28:46] his
[00:28:48] thinking in this angle and then his thinking
[00:28:57] very painful points is that the Muslim mind,
[00:29:01] throughout our history, over the past
[00:29:04] centuries, did not
[00:29:14] it has been in the minds of contemporary
[00:29:17] Islamic groups that we must act and we are not responsible
[00:29:22] despite the fact that Allah Almighty stipulated in the Holy
[00:29:26] Quran that He will not intervene
[00:29:29] with direct divine power to save
[00:29:32] the believers unless they have exhausted
[00:29:35] all the means leading to victory, the premises,
[00:29:38] of course. So if they have exhausted all the premises,
[00:29:42] Allah will intervene. Allah Almighty
[00:30:12] just because they were believers and they did not do anything. Muhammad, peace be upon him,
[00:30:16] listened to the advice of Al-Hubab ibn
[00:30:20] Al-Mundhir to change the location, and
[00:30:22] also the distribution of forces,
[00:30:26] choosing a specific type, meaning that he exhausted his effort
[00:30:33] been taken by the Muslim mind so that we do not
[00:30:37] fall into catastrophic results
[00:30:39] that were, until this moment,
[00:30:43] and it is as if you want, that is, Islam does not mean disabling
[00:30:47] the mind, nor does it mean separating
[00:30:50] the conclusion from the premise, for sure. For sure, how do you separate the premise from
[00:30:54] the conclusion? Is it revelation or is it reason and consultation in the battle
[00:30:57] of Badr? For sure, for sure.