SYRIATV — broadcast
20261012 053000 UTC
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[00:00:01] Downtown on Syria TV and the second
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[00:00:44] Syria Radio TV,
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[00:00:59] legal steps and how The British newspaper The Guardian
[00:01:02] revealed that a Syrian doctor faces deportation after the British
[00:01:06] Ministry of Interior decided to withdraw refugee status
[00:01:09] from a number of Syrians
[00:01:12] to that administrative in a move it described as the first of its kind in Europe since the fall
[00:01:17] this person, of the ousted regime.
[00:01:20] The Syrian refugee file in Europe is undergoing radical transformations,
[00:01:23] as the acceptance rates of asylum applications
[00:01:27] Yes, there are
[00:01:27] such as being persecuted have sharply declined in several countries, while Britain
[00:01:30] faces criticism after withdrawing refugee status from some
[00:01:33] Syrians since the fall of the
[00:01:37] enter a work ousted regime. The Guardian newspaper revealed
[00:01:40] that a Syrian doctor faces deportation after the British
[00:01:44] Here in Britain, Ministry of Interior decided to withdraw his refugee
[00:01:51] related to the and how it affects status, considering Syria processing these applications safe for the return of refugees, in a move that is the first of its kind in Europe, expecting
[00:01:54] that deportation decisions will
[00:01:57] currently, affect thousands of Syrians residing in the United Kingdom in the coming
[00:02:00] period. Syrian refugees in Britain complain
[00:02:04] about the long waiting period for their asylum or permanent
[00:02:08] residency applications to be processed, a situation they
[00:02:10] describe as forced waiting, as its impact extends
[00:02:14] to work, housing, travel, and family reunification, demanding
[00:02:17] that the authorities set a
[00:02:20] Bashir, are there clear timeframe for processing
[00:02:21] asylum law, not the accumulated applications.
[00:02:24] At the European Union level, 2767
[00:02:26] applications
[00:02:29] were rejected out of
[00:02:34] even recently, 3807 Syrian applications last
[00:02:36] year, bringing the acceptance
[00:02:41] by finding and this is coming rate to only 28% compared to 90% in
[00:02:43] 2024. Meanwhile, the acceptance
[00:02:48] regarding the rate of Syrian applications in February last year
[00:02:50] did not exceed 19%,
[00:02:53] perhaps permanent residence? according to EU statistics.
[00:02:56] Several European countries have no longer justified
[00:03:00] for Syrians, while
[00:03:02] rights should be countries including Germany intend to start
[00:03:05] deportation operations based
[00:03:07] my guest, Maya Al-Ostwani, on the fact that the justifications that existed before the fall
[00:03:11] of the ousted regime, such as high levels of violence
[00:03:14] and forced conscription,
[00:03:16] are no longer valid
[00:03:21] Immigration in Britain, Al-Ostwani, a member of the
[00:03:24] Board of Directors of the
[00:03:26] they used British Syrian Council, joins us live from London. Welcome.
[00:03:29] I also welcome Bashir Ali, a researcher
[00:03:33] in immigration and asylum affairs, from Frankfurt. Welcome
[00:03:36] to both of you. I'll start with you, Mr. Bashir,
[00:03:40] to talk about these steps and how you read these
[00:03:43] steps by Britain in the context of changing
[00:03:47] the policy we are seeing in the asylum file, the
[00:03:53] relate to him. two years of Syrian asylum file. First, greetings to you and your esteemed guest, and also to the honorable
[00:03:57] viewers. When a person reads
[00:04:01] you get permanent the news, it is a measure that
[00:04:04] began not only in Britain but also in other
[00:04:08] European countries, and it differs from country
[00:04:11] to country. As for Britain, despite the fact
[00:04:15] that the situation in Syria is considered to have improved,
[00:04:18] but it is volatile, it
[00:04:20] We are currently in contact has taken this step. And for the refugee himself,
[00:04:24] he still has
[00:04:27] a legal path to take.
[00:04:30] before the British courts against this
[00:04:33] decision, and perhaps he has another option to
[00:04:36] obtain another type of residence. But what raises
[00:04:40] controversy in this decision in Britain
[00:04:44] are the fundamentals for considering the situation
[00:04:47] in Syria safe in the long term, because one
[00:04:52] and his family, of the principles of the Geneva Convention, which Britain relies on to revoke
[00:04:56] the asylum status of any person when the reasons
[00:05:00] for asylum in the home country cease to exist,
[00:05:03] is that the situation must be stable in the long
[00:05:07] term, and not volatile as the United Nations
[00:05:10] stated, that this situation might change at any
[00:05:14] moment in any region, and perhaps fighting and
[00:05:17] violence. What is the legal basis that the
[00:05:21] Ministry of Interior relied on to revoke the asylum
[00:05:25] status of a Syrian doctor residing in London?
[00:05:28] The legal basis states that when the situation
[00:05:32] changes or when the reasons for asylum of any person
[00:05:36] in the home country cease to exist, based
[00:05:39] on the 1951 Geneva Refugee Convention,
[00:05:43] the asylum status granted to them is
[00:05:46] revoked. This residence was revoked without
[00:05:49] specifying which region he is from
[00:05:53] and to what extent the situation is stable in
[00:05:58] said that this decision can be appealed. What
[00:06:01] are the legal options available to a refugee
[00:06:04] whose protection card or even residency is
[00:06:08] withdrawn? What are the
[00:06:11] can they appeal? First,
[00:06:14] the name of the court and the location of the court are written
[00:06:18] in the decision to revoke his asylum
[00:06:21] status. He appeals
[00:06:25] court in the area where he lives,
[00:06:28] and he provides new reasons
[00:06:31] or the same reasons with evidence that the
[00:06:34] situation for him or the reasons he mentioned,
[00:06:40] by extremist groups, are still present. He must
[00:06:43] prove that the reasons still exist.
[00:06:47] Then he might retain the asylum status
[00:06:50] that was revoked by the British authorities.
[00:06:53] As for the second option, the British
[00:06:57] authorities, with regard to their immigration and
[00:07:00] asylum law, clearly state that the
[00:07:03] person has options to stay based on the
[00:07:06] person's integration and based on the situation
[00:07:09] of the family and children in Britain. Okay, Mr.
[00:07:13] Bashir, based on the case of the Syrian
[00:07:16] doctor residing in London since 2016, to what
[00:07:19] extent are there perhaps fears or even indications
[00:07:22] that this case might constitute a beginning
[00:07:25] for reviewing many files?
[00:07:29] This legal situation, which is clear in
[00:07:33] only in Britain but also in other
[00:07:36] European countries, states that when the reasons
[00:07:40] for asylum cease to
[00:07:43] exist, the person's file is opened as
[00:07:47] part of the cancellation or withdrawal procedures,
[00:07:51] for many Syrian refugees. Many
[00:07:55] European countries have also started this trend,
[00:07:58] considering that the security situation in Syria differs
[00:08:01] from one region to another. Therefore, we will see
[00:08:04] in the coming days perhaps this measure
[00:08:08] against many Syrian refugees in Britain and
[00:08:11] other European countries. Yes, this will perhaps constitute a beginning for reviewing
[00:08:15] wider files. Okay, let's hear from
[00:08:20] about these steps that Britain is taking.
[00:08:23] What has changed in British policy towards
[00:08:27] Syrian
[00:08:29] refugees? Welcome.
[00:08:33] Regarding the change in British policy,
[00:08:35] unfortunately, after the liberation of Syria
[00:08:39] from the Assad regime, Britain
[00:08:42] halted all
[00:08:46] permanent residency applications for Syrians.
[00:08:50] After that, they gradually started processing applications.
[00:08:53] They first started processing applications from Syrians
[00:08:57] who came to Britain for resettlement through
[00:09:01] the United Nations. Then, after about
[00:09:05] the halt, currently in October,
[00:09:07] decisions started arriving
[00:09:11] for applications submitted by Syrian
[00:09:15] refugees who came to Britain
[00:09:18] on their own and applied for asylum.
[00:09:22] Unfortunately, the British doctor whom The Guardian
[00:09:25] reported on today is not the only one
[00:09:29] who received a rejection.
[00:09:33] with more than five families who also received
[00:09:36] rejections from the Home Office for permanent
[00:09:38] residency, and the rejection of residency
[00:09:42] also came with the withdrawal of refugee
[00:09:46] status. So these families are currently facing
[00:09:50] the risk of deportation from Britain, even though Syria is
[00:09:53] still unstable and needs time, it needs
[00:09:57] time to recover, it needs time
[00:10:00] to rebuild the basics and infrastructure,
[00:10:04] it needs time to rebuild the houses
[00:10:07] themselves. Because if these refugees are to
[00:10:11] return to a destroyed country where there are
[00:10:15] no basics, with their families and children,
[00:10:18] it will be very difficult for them to
[00:10:22] integrate into society. Yes, and it's difficult
[00:10:26] for them to contribute to society. Of course,
[00:10:29] in the end, we are looking for dignity
[00:10:33] for these families so they can live
[00:10:36] their lives with dignity. So their return
[00:10:39] in the current circumstances is very
[00:10:43] difficult and unacceptable. That's why we are
[00:10:49] a member of this council, the British
[00:10:52] Syrian Council's board of directors, and especially
[00:10:56] since you indicated that this is not the
[00:10:59] first case and there are cases and perhaps,
[00:11:02] God forbid, the
[00:11:04] file will expand to perhaps a
[00:11:07] larger number than that. What are
[00:11:11] the steps you are taking in the
[00:11:14] British Syrian Council with the parties,
[00:11:17] perhaps, or to cooperate to reach a
[00:11:20] common formula and understand the new
[00:11:24] trends in Britain? Have you taken any
[00:11:27] steps? Over the past two
[00:11:30] years, we first spoke with members
[00:11:33] of Parliament. A Member of Parliament
[00:11:37] named David Teller helped us to hold
[00:11:40] a session in Parliament for those affected
[00:11:43] by the delay in applications. Then we
[00:11:46] launched a campaign and tried to contact
[00:11:49] Members of Parliament, and the Syrian community
[00:11:53] kindly joined us. We were able to
[00:11:57] reach the Immigration Minister, Alex Norris,
[00:12:00] and we sat down with him and tried
[00:12:04] to explain to him the great impact
[00:12:06] of the delay in
[00:12:10] on these families
[00:12:12] their daily lives. Many of them work,
[00:12:16] their children are in universities or schools,
[00:12:19] some of them have health conditions, their
[00:12:23] children need health care. All of
[00:12:26] this was affecting them. Unfortunately,
[00:12:29] the result was that they accelerated
[00:12:32] the processing of applications in October, but
[00:12:36] the processing of applications is resulting in rejections,
[00:12:40] and this is the problem. They are the ones
[00:12:43] who are causing personal danger. They are
[00:12:46] making it as if people are applying
[00:12:50] for asylum from scratch. They need there
[00:12:54] to be personal danger to you
[00:12:57] in order to get asylum, and
[00:13:00] this is unprecedented. It has not happened
[00:13:03] before in Britain. What are the justifications
[00:13:07] from the British side, especially
[00:13:13] issue of delays in paperwork or
[00:13:18] What are their justifications?
[00:13:21] Well, at the beginning, they were saying that
[00:13:25] they had a backlog of applications.
[00:13:27] Yes, because during the period of Syria's
[00:13:30] liberation and the fall of Assad's regime,
[00:13:34] they stopped processing applications until they
[00:13:38] could see what would happen in Syria in
[00:13:42] the next stage. So during that
[00:13:45] period, they stopped processing any applications
[00:13:48] for almost a year, so they
[00:13:50] had a backlog of applications. So
[00:13:53] their constant justification to us was that
[00:13:57] they are currently processing the delayed
[00:14:00] applications. But unfortunately, when
[00:14:03] they started processing the delayed applications,
[00:14:06] they started processing them in a way
[00:14:09] that is not suitable for these
[00:14:12] families. They started treating them as if
[00:14:16] they were applying for asylum from scratch,
[00:14:19] as I said. In Britain, usually, if
[00:14:22] you apply for asylum,
[00:14:26] residence after five years. But
[00:14:29] currently, there is something called the
[00:14:33] seven-year rule. They send questions to the person applying for
[00:14:37] permanent residence, asking them if there is
[00:14:41] a risk to their life, why they don't
[00:14:44] want to return to Syria, what problems
[00:14:47] they will face, and they are conducting
[00:14:50] interviews with them. All of this is
[00:14:54] affecting them and causing them great
[00:14:58] psychological pressure. People have started to experience
[00:15:02] depression. Some people have family
[00:15:05] problems and health problems. All of
[00:15:08] this is affecting them. And when the
[00:15:11] rejections started coming, it was a surprise.
[00:15:14] Even the doctor
[00:15:17] they received the rejection. He had
[00:15:20] no legal problems. He has
[00:15:23] no problems in the country. He
[00:15:27] is a doctor who has completed
[00:15:30] the equalization of his certificate. He should
[00:15:33] be of value to Britain. Britain is
[00:15:37] forced to recruit doctors from outside
[00:15:40] Britain because they have a shortage.
[00:15:43] So why don't they benefit from
[00:15:47] the refugees who have certificates and
[00:15:50] employ them? These are also the considerations
[00:15:53] regarding the Syrian doctor. What are
[00:15:56] the considerations that
[00:16:00] Britain, the concerned and responsible authorities,
[00:16:04] talked about specifically regarding the case
[00:16:08] of the Syrian doctor?
[00:16:11] Well, regarding this doctor,
[00:16:14] they told him that you have no
[00:16:17] problems returning to Syria. All the reasons you applied
[00:16:21] for asylum based on have ceased
[00:16:24] to exist, so you are able to
[00:16:28] return to your home country and integrate
[00:16:31] again, just as you were able to
[00:16:34] easily integrate into British society,
[00:16:38] you and your children. So
[00:16:42] you can easily integrate into Syria. Of course, this
[00:16:45] is not true because it is difficult
[00:16:48] for a person to lose ten years
[00:16:51] of their life and start from
[00:16:55] scratch, especially in an unstable
[00:16:58] situation. So it is illogical,
[00:17:02] frankly.
[00:17:04] other paths in other European countries. For
[00:17:08] example, if a person's refugee status is
[00:17:11] revoked, they can
[00:17:14] path, a study path, or a
[00:17:18] family life path.
[00:17:22] these paths do not exist. These paths
[00:17:25] were opened, or rather, they will
[00:17:28] be opened next year for asylum
[00:17:31] seekers. Refugees who are applying for
[00:17:35] permanent residence have not had paths
[00:17:39] opened for them. Ms. Maya, what
[00:17:42] about the role of the Refugee
[00:17:45] Convention and also the rules related
[00:17:49] to non-refoulement in the context
[00:17:52] of protection related to Syrians?
[00:17:54] Currently,
[00:17:57] the natural return, they are asking
[00:18:00] refugees for voluntary return and trying
[00:18:04] to encourage them by providing
[00:18:08] financial amounts,
[00:18:11] there is a company that helps
[00:18:14] those who wish to return voluntarily
[00:18:18] housing or by reintegrating
[00:18:21] in Syria, even though, frankly, the services they
[00:18:25] provide are very limited and not
[00:18:28] suitable for families who might return
[00:18:32] to Syria. So, regarding
[00:18:34] the Refugee Convention, refugees'
[00:18:39] protected, and they should not
[00:18:42] be returned to a place where
[00:18:46] they do not
[00:18:48] feel safe. So the reasons
[00:18:51] of the Home Office, which is
[00:18:55] the Ministry of
[00:18:58] are illogical, and it seems that
[00:19:03] AI because their responses to
[00:19:06] permanent residency applications are,
[00:19:10] first of all, very long, and
[00:19:14] second, they contain clauses that do
[00:19:17] not relate to the person themselves.
[00:19:20] For example, the doctor had almost
[00:19:24] three clauses in the response
[00:19:27] that did not
[00:19:31] They told him that he could return to Saudi
[00:19:34] Arabia because
[00:19:37] he lived there for four years,
[00:19:40] even though he never lived in
[00:19:43] Saudi Arabia. Another family was
[00:19:47] told they could return to Albania,
[00:19:51] even though they never lived in
[00:19:54] Albania. So there are illogical
[00:19:58] responses to applications, and it is clear
[00:20:01] that they used AI. They are
[00:20:04] not processing applications separately by staff
[00:20:07] members. So they have.
[00:20:10] Okay, Mr. Bashir, earlier you referred
[00:20:14] to the issue that there is
[00:20:16] a policy among European countries regarding
[00:20:20] voluntary return and the refugee file.
[00:20:24] Are there other countries that have
[00:20:27] started taking the same steps as
[00:20:30] Britain? Yes, more than
[00:20:34] one European country has started taking
[00:20:37] these steps and has started opening the
[00:20:41] files of Syrian refugees within
[00:20:44] the context of the reasons for asylum
[00:20:48] having ceased to exist in the
[00:20:51] home country, and you must provide
[00:20:55] convincing reasons to stay in
[00:20:58] Germany. And
[00:21:01] messages have been sent to
[00:21:05] many Syrian refugees in Germany, at
[00:21:07] least, in a not
[00:21:11] insignificant number, and they must
[00:21:15] now cooperate with
[00:21:18] the authority, for example, in Germany,
[00:21:22] the Federal Office for Migration and
[00:21:25] Refugees within the procedures for
[00:21:28] withdrawal and cancellation, which may later lead to the
[00:21:32] cancellation of their refugee status or
[00:21:35] the protection they received in Germany.
[00:21:38] As for other countries, Austria
[00:21:42] has also started these procedures,
[00:21:44] and so has the Netherlands
[00:21:48] and more than one other country,
[00:21:52] Sweden and also Denmark, within
[00:21:55] these procedures. However, what
[00:21:58] has been common so far in
[00:22:01] Germany and other European countries
[00:22:05] is the cancellation of refugee status
[00:22:07] for other reasons
[00:22:10] not related to the situation in
[00:22:14] Syria. It was for reasons related,
[00:22:18] for example, to visiting
[00:22:21] Syria without a compelling humanitarian
[00:22:25] reason, for example, obtaining a passport
[00:22:28] and the person's situation placing
[00:22:31] them under the protection of the
[00:22:34] state from which they came. These
[00:22:38] were reasons not
[00:22:41] security situation in Syria or
[00:22:44] the stability of the situation in
[00:22:47] Syria. Also, the service situation
[00:22:51] is not taken into account in
[00:22:55] asylum law in European countries.
[00:22:58] This matter is a foregone
[00:23:01] conclusion. Personal persecution for a
[00:23:05] reason, for example, being
[00:23:08] a member of a religious or
[00:23:11] ethnic group, or having
[00:23:14] a different political opinion from a
[00:23:17] governmental or non-governmental entity.
[00:23:20] Perhaps if these reasons cease
[00:23:24] to exist, it leads to the
[00:23:27] cancellation of their refugee status.
[00:23:31] Therefore, can it be said,
[00:23:33] in light of
[00:23:36] all these steps, that we are
[00:23:39] facing perhaps a new application
[00:23:42] of legal standards related to perhaps
[00:23:46] changing European policy on the
[00:23:50] refugee file? Indeed, these
[00:23:53] procedures have begun.
[00:23:56] The standard is clear in
[00:24:00] asylum law, and actually,
[00:24:03] even in the 1951 Geneva
[00:24:06] Refugee Convention, these procedures are
[00:24:10] clear, and these standards are clear. The same procedures
[00:24:14] that are taking place in Britain
[00:24:17] are taking place in Germany and
[00:24:20] other European countries. A letter or
[00:24:24] message is sent to the person
[00:24:27] that their file has been opened
[00:24:30] for withdrawal and cancellation procedures.
[00:24:33] You have the right to respond
[00:24:37] within a month. What are your
[00:24:41] new reasons? Are the reasons you
[00:24:44] presented the first time still valid?
[00:24:48] And then the
[00:24:57] application is reviewed. So these standards
[00:25:52] exist in the law and are
[00:25:54] being applied now. However, the meaning
[00:25:58] of revoking asylum status does not mean deportation.
[00:26:02] And legally, there is a
[00:26:06] difference between
[00:26:08] revoking asylum
[00:26:12] status and refusing to renew residency
[00:26:15] and deportation operations.
[00:26:19] Revoking asylum status has
[00:26:21] reasons. When a person places
[00:26:24] himself under the protection of the
[00:26:28] country from which he came, or
[00:26:30] visits the home country without a
[00:26:34] justifiable humanitarian reason, or
[00:26:37] the reasons for personal persecution
[00:26:40] in the home
[00:26:48] country cease to
[00:26:50] exist, these
[00:26:53] reasons lead to the revocation
[00:26:56] of asylum status.
[00:27:04] Deportation has
[00:27:05] other procedures.
[00:27:12] Deportation requires the consent of
[00:27:16] the home country and guarantees that
[00:27:19] when they return to the home
[00:27:34] country, will not be subjected to
[00:27:38] persecution and will not be
[00:27:41] subjected to torture or killing
[00:27:44] or kidnapping.
[00:27:48] There are many reasons that
[00:27:51] must be among the guarantees
[00:27:53] of the receiving
[00:27:55] state, and
[00:28:00] and until now, Syria is
[00:28:02] only talking about voluntary,
[00:28:05] dignified return and not forced
[00:28:09] return or deportation. Okay, in light
[00:28:11] of that, Mr.
[00:28:22] legal options
[00:28:27] available to the Syrian refugee?
[00:28:29] Can he really appeal these decisions?
[00:28:33] The decision to revoke residency
[00:28:37] or asylum status or subsidiary protection
[00:28:40] that a person obtained in Europe
[00:28:42] or Britain, he has the
[00:28:46] right to appeal to the courts. And since 2020,
[00:28:50] at least in Europe, there
[00:28:53] are wide
[00:29:00] options to change
[00:29:02] residency to residency for another
[00:29:06] purpose, including work,
[00:29:09] vocational training, study, or for a
[00:29:12] specific family situation. The
[00:29:16] child is integrated into German society,
[00:29:19] meaning the father
[00:29:21] and mother obtain residency
[00:29:25] based on the child in Germany.
[00:29:28] However, we must distinguish between two important
[00:29:32] points: integration is not related
[00:29:36] to the cessation of the reasons
[00:29:40] for asylum of any person in
[00:29:43] Germany. These are two separate
[00:29:45] matters. When the reasons for asylum
[00:30:37] of any person in the home
[00:30:40] country cease
[00:30:41] to exist and
[00:30:45] their asylum status is revoked,
[00:30:49] integration is then considered
[00:30:53] the latest developments.
[00:30:53] regional
[00:30:59] Syrian