SYRIATV — broadcast
20261102 193000 UTC
371 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] The magic solution is decentralization. Mr. Fouad, if we ask you,
[00:00:03] and listed a large number of you were talking about magic solutions and about
[00:00:06] guarantees
[00:00:10] a model that suits us, and this for certain components due to fears,
[00:00:12] and knowing that fears exist among all Syrians, between majority and minority, and
[00:00:15] we don't like this term,
[00:00:18] but this is a reality that imposes itself now,
[00:00:21] hoping that this matter will end in any case. What are
[00:00:26] a specific experience and impose it on the guarantees
[00:00:27] the Syrian reality. No, this is not for your demands related to decentralization,
[00:00:30] so that it doesn't turn into something like a separation between the center
[00:00:34] and the peripheries?
[00:00:37] 15 years of Politically, I agree with you that the fear is mutual between
[00:00:41] the two sides. The fear of a segment
[00:00:44] of Syrian society from Kurds,
[00:00:47] just mentioning the word Kurd, people remember the old
[00:00:50] culture from 50 years ago that the Ba'ath planted.
[00:00:54] We were demanding citizenship. We were
[00:00:58] referred to courts
[00:01:01] on charges of
[00:01:04] fragmenting part of the Syrian Arab Republic's territory.
[00:01:07] I remember the sarcasm in
[00:01:09] 1971
[00:01:12] when a group of students came out shouting "Long live Arab-Kurdish brotherhood" on the rock
[00:01:15] Syrians of Arab-Kurdish steadfastness. The conspiracies of colonialism
[00:01:19] and reactionaries will be shattered. Imagine,
[00:01:23] the war with the revolutionaries. they arrested seven students. And it was
[00:01:27] the occasion of the union
[00:01:29] to some extent, but it needs a lot of between Syria and... Egypt and Libya at that time.
[00:01:34] and services and shares They took them. Now that era has ended. And
[00:01:36] by Decree 13, citizenships were granted and
[00:01:40] reassurances were given. Why, why talk about decentralization
[00:01:45] regime, which controls that
[00:01:45] their areas and forced mutual fear? residents prevented them from
[00:01:48] However, this Yes, how do we guarantee? How do we remove this mutual
[00:01:51] fear? In a constitution and in
[00:01:55] there must be a comprehensive national dialogue
[00:01:57] that includes all
[00:02:02] I agree to some extent Syrian communities, Syrian society, and
[00:02:05] the establishment of a National Assembly to prepare
[00:02:09] a constitution
[00:02:10] a gradual approach in that guarantees the rights
[00:02:13] There must of all types of components and the rights of Syrian citizens,
[00:02:15] and works to distribute
[00:02:19] components. We must lived in power fairly, wealth, as Dr. Ammar
[00:02:22] said. So the issue
[00:02:25] is that this fear must be removed. This fear is not removed
[00:02:29] through bombardment from behind
[00:02:32] walls. It is removed through direct dialogue
[00:02:35] O homes in and sitting at a round
[00:02:38] homes in
[00:02:39] it does not apply table that includes all components and discussing
[00:02:42] calmly. So, if a law or constitutional
[00:02:46] principles are issued regarding Syria having administrative
[00:02:49] decentralization, for example, meaning we went to the constitution and it was voted on
[00:02:52] in a general referendum, and this means
[00:02:56] these articles in the constitution talk about administrative decentralization and granted cultural rights
[00:03:00] as granted to Kurds in Decree 13 to all
[00:03:03] components, is this satisfactory for you,
[00:03:06] for example, as Kurds or for other components, if you have
[00:03:10] the desire to answer this question, or is it not enough?
[00:03:13] And here we will enter into a new dilemma because a constitutional
[00:03:17] article was voted on. We work according to the principle of "take
[00:03:20] and demand." We work according to the principle of "take
[00:03:22] policy in and demand." Yes, if
[00:03:24] learned a lot from his writings on this we agree on a constitutional
[00:03:28] mechanism for Syrian society,
[00:03:31] From this we do not want to jump over the current
[00:03:33] reality. We must forget the military for now.
[00:03:37] The military in Third World
[00:03:43] that have oversight over understanding about the most suitable systems are considered the guardians of power. They are the ones who govern.
[00:03:45] Decentralization
[00:03:49] there are those who talk about these risks of at least limits the role of the military. This is also very
[00:03:51] important as long as the military, notice the coups. So what is the form
[00:03:55] of decentralization you are talking about from your perspective or
[00:03:58] in your opinion? Currently, political
[00:04:02] decentralization is very
[00:04:03] the country's power. There is no form of suitable, but with political understanding.
[00:04:07] But with understanding. Let's explain political decentralization. Let me
[00:04:11] ask, does it mean from your perspective, because even political decentralization has more
[00:04:15] than one degree, that there is a parliament
[00:04:18] for this region or this
[00:04:21] interviews I conducted with many state, and that it also has foreign relations related to a foreign minister
[00:04:26] population groups. I mean, and a government,
[00:04:28] is the one who like the model of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq? Is this the model you are talking about or
[00:04:31] political decentralization related to fewer powers?
[00:04:34] Because the term political decentralization, you are a politician,
[00:04:38] Mr. Fouad, and an old and experienced politician in this field. You know that
[00:04:41] it entails a parliament, a government, foreign
[00:04:45] relations, a language, and
[00:04:50] that time. Al-Durubi was one of there is a tendency, at different official documents completely from the center.
[00:04:52] No, no, official documents, etc. No,
[00:04:56] University in Istanbul. I mean, now two parliaments, it needs a parliament for the regions or governorates and a parliament for Syria.
[00:05:00] So, you are talking about a bicameral system. Yes,
[00:05:04] a bicameral system in
[00:05:05] then governor of the parliament. There is no model in the world
[00:05:09] that is identical to another. And you mentioned in the
[00:05:13] TV report
[00:05:16] models. We, as Syrians, together
[00:05:19] will create
[00:05:22] will only come through dialogue and the consent of both parties.
[00:05:25] So if we agree, this is the form that we want
[00:05:29] as a Syrian society, and I don't
[00:05:32] want to rely on a specific
[00:05:35] experience or copy
[00:05:40] permissible. We, through our understanding
[00:05:43] of our Syrian reality, in our ethnic
[00:05:47] and religious situation and the
[00:05:50] estrangement between society, must search
[00:05:53] for a mechanism that satisfies all
[00:05:56] parties through dialogue. Aha, through
[00:05:59] dialogue, and Mr. Bashar indeed, through dialogue in the People's
[00:06:03] Assembly, I mean, and awaiting the preparation or
[00:06:06] drafting of the new constitution, to what extent
[00:06:09] does the dialogue go into types of political or administrative decentralization or
[00:06:13] expanded administrative decentralization, especially since you said through
[00:06:16] your discussions that Law 107 is
[00:06:20] suitable for this stage or perhaps, as Mr.
[00:06:23] Ammar said, a starting point. In your opinion, how
[00:06:27] will you reach through dialogue the word, yes, the word
[00:06:30] "beginning" is the most accurate word, in my opinion,
[00:06:33] because despite the fact that
[00:06:36] Law 107 I find it good
[00:06:41] amendments. In fact, Law 107,
[00:06:44] when it was produced or issued in 2011,
[00:06:48] today we are in 2026, and the world is developing
[00:06:51] very rapidly and
[00:06:54] quickly. I mean, even laws, one of the ideas that is being
[00:06:58] widely discussed today is the mechanism for finding
[00:07:01] a mechanism so that these
[00:07:04] laws can evolve flexibly enough
[00:07:08] to keep pace with the development we are experiencing today
[00:07:11] and the acceleration on all levels and in all
[00:07:14] fields. The discussion today is
[00:07:17] a discussion of all Syrians, as we mentioned, about
[00:07:20] those who see centralization as a solution, like Professor
[00:07:24] Fouad, and insist on that, and those who see that the
[00:07:27] centralization we
[00:07:30] the past was not something
[00:07:34] or a bad thing, except that its application, because when we talk
[00:07:37] about the Assad regime, we don't talk about a centralized system or
[00:07:41] a decentralized system. We talk about a repressive system
[00:07:43] with tyranny, meaning
[00:07:46] a very repressive, tyrannical system, and therefore
[00:07:51] to any form of system. It was an occupation, in fact.
[00:07:54] In reality,
[00:07:57] but generally, generally, there is a trend, as
[00:08:00] we discussed, to significantly
[00:08:03] reduce the severity of centralization.
[00:08:06] The severity of centralization, I mean, what are the powers that can be given
[00:08:10] to the governorates? Yes, yes, in your opinion,
[00:08:14] I think it needs
[00:08:17] a gradual approach. We cannot go towards
[00:08:20] the highest degrees of decentralization currently
[00:08:23] in light of political circumstances, military
[00:08:26] and security circumstances that we have been living through and are still living through, and the whole
[00:08:30] region is experiencing it today. I believe there should be
[00:08:34] a gradual approach in this direction so that we can trust
[00:08:37] each other as Syrians and listen to each other as Syrians, and find
[00:08:40] this, let's say, formula of joint governance that we can
[00:08:44] build our Syria upon.
[00:08:47] But for me to suddenly today propose the issue
[00:08:50] of extreme decentralization or political decentralization, in
[00:08:54] my opinion, it entails risks. The problem, the danger
[00:08:58] here, Mr. Bashar,
[00:09:01] division and disintegration, especially in a state where there is no trust between
[00:09:05] its people. We are talking about a minefield. The first danger
[00:09:08] is the last one, meaning the first adventure might be the last.
[00:09:12] God forbid, we are concerned that Syria remains one
[00:09:15] unified entity. Therefore, the issue of gradualism, in my opinion,
[00:09:19] the issue of supporting small administrative units
[00:09:22] to the maximum extent, granting
[00:09:26] independent budgets, even by the way, in
[00:09:28] 107, it includes the issue of
[00:09:32] financial independence, and this talk, I mean, I don't know
[00:09:35] how contrary information is to 107, which includes
[00:09:39] financial independence for administrative units, of course, within
[00:09:47] implementation. In fact, 107 was never implemented, not for a moment. I mean, the regime produced it in 2011
[00:09:51] and it was never applied. Today we are living in a transitional period, we
[00:09:55] don't know whether to apply 107 or other laws and so on. But
[00:09:58] اخره لكن
[00:10:01] least let's talk now governmentally, I mean, yesterday we were in
[00:10:05] a session with the Minister of Local Administration.
[00:10:09] I sensed a tendency towards applying 107
[00:10:13] and expanding the powers of local
[00:10:16] councils, meaning towards, let's say, alleviating
[00:10:20] the severity. I have to stop you here, but does that
[00:10:23] mean, for example, that there will be
[00:10:26] a governor appointed by the president of the republic and a mayor,
[00:10:30] or are the governor and the
[00:10:33] mayor elected by
[00:10:35] the people? No, I believe,
[00:10:39] I believe the governor is another matter. The governor
[00:10:42] will be appointed, meaning this resembles the Turkish
[00:10:46] model, I believe. Yes, the Turkish
[00:10:48] experience. From this point, allow me
[00:10:52] to move to Turkey, where Turkey combined centralization
[00:10:55] and administrative decentralization. Its experience went through different stages. Let's
[00:10:59] follow the experience of administrative decentralization in Turkey with our colleague
[00:11:03] Baha. How can a highly centralized state
[00:11:06] grant its cities and provinces broad
[00:11:10] powers without giving up its unity
[00:11:12] of administration? In Turkey, whose constitution
[00:11:15] stipulates combining centralization and administrative
[00:11:19] decentralization, the municipality system underwent a significant transformation
[00:11:23] at the beginning of the millennium. In 2004 and 2005,
[00:11:26] laws were issued that reorganized large
[00:11:29] and local municipalities and granted them administrative
[00:11:32] and financial independence and powers including
[00:11:35] urban planning, transportation, cleanliness, and public
[00:11:39] facilities, in addition to social and cultural services.
[00:11:42] Municipal councils
[00:11:45] and their heads are elected every five years.
[00:11:48] The councils have the authority to approve budgets and investment
[00:11:52] plans, while municipalities obtain
[00:11:55] revenues from fees
[00:11:59] of general taxes. In 2012,
[00:12:01] a new reform was approved that increased the
[00:12:05] number of large municipalities from 16 to
[00:12:08] 30 and expanded their boundaries to include the entire
[00:12:11] relevant provinces. reform also abolished
[00:12:15] smaller local administrations and converted villages
[00:12:19] and towns into neighborhoods belonging to larger
[00:12:22] municipalities, which raised questions about
[00:12:25] populations and the independence of their regions.
[00:12:28] Despite these powers, the central government
[00:12:31] remained present through appointed governors.
[00:12:35] The country also witnessed the removal of elected mayors
[00:12:38] and the appointment of officials in their
[00:12:40] place. The Turkish experience
[00:12:43] thus reveals that administrative decentralization does not necessarily
[00:12:47] contradict the unity of the state, but its success
[00:12:50] requires clear powers and sufficient financial
[00:12:54] resources, and guarantees that protect the independence of elected councils
[00:12:57] and prevent central oversight
[00:13:00] from becoming a means to obstruct them.
[00:13:04] Mr. Ammar, you lived in Turkey and I believe you lived in the United
[00:13:07] States, meaning with experiences of different state forms
[00:13:10] between federalism and administrative decentralization. How can
[00:13:14] Syria create a suitable model for itself based on experiences
[00:13:17] without falling into mistakes, meaning lessons learned, as
[00:13:20] you call them?
[00:13:25] I mean, there are many lessons learned from countries
[00:13:28] like those to our east or west,
[00:13:31] or also from Jordan, from Turkey, we don't need
[00:13:35] to go far. Iraq is
[00:13:39] frightening.
[00:13:42] I mean, I want to focus on what Professor Fouad
[00:13:45] said, our professor, and we
[00:13:49] specific topic. When we started at Omran
[00:13:52] Center, then dialogue is what starts. I mean,
[00:13:56] when Syrians start trusting each other, and also Mr. Bashar
[00:14:00] also mentioned, this building of trust
[00:14:03] is what ultimately generates
[00:14:06] form. There is no, again, I can't
[00:14:09] say that decentralization solves all our problems,
[00:14:13] but it certainly gives more ownership
[00:14:16] to finding solutions that solve our problems.
[00:14:19] I mean, it puts people,
[00:14:22] it gives power to the base. I mean,
[00:14:26] it returns power,
[00:14:28] decentralization that adopts different
[00:14:32] foreign policies, and I mean, these are distorted forms found in some
[00:14:36] countries, but I believe all Syrians,
[00:14:39] with all their spectra, agree. No, we did
[00:14:42] a survey, I mean, and many
[00:14:46] parties, blocs, and different
[00:14:51] no one tells you that they want a different currency or defense.
[00:14:55] Everyone agrees that these are sovereign matters, so there is no
[00:14:58] disagreement about them. But there is also a local
[00:15:02] dimension to many of these functions. These are state functions.
[00:15:05] I mean, here we are talking about decentralization as a concept for distributing
[00:15:09] state functions locally and who has the decision-making
[00:15:12] power The decision can be transferred,
[00:15:16] delegated, or there can be non-exclusivity. I mean, here are three
[00:15:19] levels of decision-making. Where do they choose the school?
[00:15:23] On what land do they choose it? Does the center plan
[00:15:27] and decide that I want to put the school in Sarouja neighborhood
[00:15:30] in Damascus or in so-and-so's neighborhood? No, here there must be local
[00:15:34] committees, a local council, local entities that come and say
[00:15:38] it is better for us to have it in a certain place. And the same for resources,
[00:15:41] fees, and so on. The Turkish model
[00:15:44] balanced many factors. We also
[00:15:48] need to study, to diagnose the reality
[00:15:50] accurately, and to analyze, to put
[00:15:54] administrative solutions to these problems in a way
[00:15:57] that preserves the rights of local residents, for sure.
[00:16:00] Well, Mr. Fouad, when you said that the Iraqi experience
[00:16:04] is frightening, because you know in the Iraqi constitution there
[00:16:07] is an article that stipulates a bicameral parliament system
[00:16:11] that has not been applied yet. There is something that talks about federalism
[00:16:14] and regions and it has not been applied yet, only in the Kurdistan region,
[00:16:18] and you know that the situation there is still not safe
[00:16:21] for all citizens, whether they are Arabs or Kurds or with their diversity.
[00:16:25] Therefore, for Syria, how do we build
[00:16:29] trust between the Syrian people to reach, not just political
[00:16:32] currents, we are talking about social incubators, so that they reach
[00:16:36] forms or a form that can manage the country with local
[00:16:39] administrations that satisfy everyone to the acceptable
[00:16:43] extent?
[00:16:47] Sister Ruba, you said that the Iraqi
[00:16:50] constitution is frightening, that's very heavy.
[00:16:53] If there was an application of the Iraqi
[00:16:57] constitution, we would have found...
[00:16:59] I didn't say it's frightening, I said there is a constitution that hasn't been applied yet after all
[00:17:03] these years. The state of Iraq, our sister, is a state...
[00:17:14] The reality is that Iran imposed itself,
[00:17:17] placing every advisor, minister of the Iranian
[00:17:22] power in Iraq, even this... Excuse me,
[00:17:25] this is not what we are here to talk about.
[00:17:28] Let's talk about Syria. So let's talk about Syria. How do we build
[00:17:31] trust and choose a useful model
[00:17:34] for everyone? Regarding Syria,
[00:17:40] with Mr. Bashar. We cannot
[00:17:43] jump over the current reality. There must be
[00:17:48] these issues.
[00:17:50] be reassurance
[00:17:52] messages sent to all
[00:17:56] discuss that the centralized system is no
[00:18:00] longer suitable for Syrian
[00:18:03] society at the current stage. So, yes, there must
[00:18:07] be. We must tell Syrian society that we all
[00:18:11] are united by a state of citizenship, equality, justice,
[00:18:14] and democracy. I am for electing local
[00:18:18] authorities, even the governor, and
[00:18:21] the Iraqi model, like Mosul province,
[00:18:24] might be suitable. Why don't we want
[00:18:28] a high commissioner? Whoever comes to us
[00:18:30] from one governorate to another, I remember in Al-Hasakah
[00:18:33] governorate, most of our governors, in the end,
[00:18:38] all Syrians are Syrian citizen. For the state,
[00:18:42] it's a heavy burden. For the central state, they bring
[00:18:45] a governor appointed by the president, saying that half
[00:18:48] of Syria is described in such a way, regardless of the way
[00:18:52] the country is managed or the form of administration. Okay, in
[00:18:55] 30 seconds, because my time is up, and I want to move to Mr.
[00:18:57] Bashar.
[00:19:00] I mean, I am with electing the governor
[00:19:03] and mayors from the governorates.
[00:19:08] Mr. Bashar, if we ask you about oversight,
[00:19:12] which is the most important matter, and it is one of the tasks of the People's Assembly
[00:19:15] not only in this stage, but in all stages. Parliaments are the ones
[00:19:21] the government and over the management of resources and
[00:19:24] so on. How is it possible in a non-administrative, decentralized
[00:19:28] administrative system, pardon me, to control oversight,
[00:19:32] and you gave us the example of Turkey, and there are other models, some good
[00:19:35] and some not so good?
[00:19:38] Yes, I think oversight in the context of, I mean,
[00:19:41] if we move towards administrative
[00:19:44] decentralization, oversight will be more effective,
[00:19:47] not only by the People's Assembly, which is
[00:19:50] located in the center. It is true that it represents all
[00:19:54] governorates, but oversight will also be carried out
[00:19:58] by the local community, because whoever elects the member,
[00:20:02] whoever grants legitimacy,
[00:20:05] oversees this member
[00:20:17] Thank you very much, my guests in the Third
[00:20:20] Republic: Mr. Bashar Hawa, member of the People's Assembly, you were with us from
[00:20:23] Aleppo; Mr. Fouad Aliko, member of the Political Committee of the
[00:20:27] Kurdish Yekiti Party in Syria, you were with us from Erbil; and Mr.
[00:20:31] Ammar Qahf, Executive Director of the Omran Center for Strategic Studies, you were
[00:20:35] with us from Damascus.
[00:20:40] And thanks to you, dear viewers. This was the weekly
[00:20:43] statement from the Third
[00:20:44] Republic.
[00:30:28] Welcome to this news bulletin. We begin with the headlines.
[00:30:33] Internal Security deploys in Hay al-Sawaeq in Hama after clashes between
[00:30:37] two families and arrests a number of
[00:30:40] those involved.
[00:30:43] Israeli occupation forces set up a temporary checkpoint and search
[00:30:47] passersby in the village of Ruwaihina in the central Quneitra countryside.