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20260806 173000 UTC
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[00:00:14] voters saw in him, which is the issue of
[00:00:32] Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the
[00:01:01] in this case from a right-wing perspective in
[00:01:16] Look, basically Abelardo de
[00:01:57] building an alternate headquarters for
[00:02:11] Juan Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the
[00:02:16] decentralization, but on the other hand, also
[00:02:24] necessarily align with President
[00:02:35] paddleboarding instructor here in
[00:03:25] Juan Camilo Losano, political analyst and professor of
[00:03:30] Hello, good evening and welcome to Conclusiones, I'm the Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of Iván Perez Armenti from Buenos
[00:03:33] Aires, tonight for Fernando del
[00:03:35] Rincón.
[00:03:42] I ask you to join me from this moment on using the hashtag Conclu
[00:03:46] Colombia, #conclucolombia, remember that as always I receive all your comments on my
[00:03:50] X account at
[00:03:51] @ivanpzs.
[00:03:54] Politics, the choice of locations also sends
[00:03:57] messages. The fact that Abelardo de la has already decided to assume
[00:04:01] power in Cali instead of Bogotá, which is the capital of
[00:04:04] Colombia and seat of national powers, sends several signals, because
[00:04:08] it is not just about changing a direction on the
[00:04:11] that Abelardo de las Pillas has been inspired, map, it is the breaking of a republican tradition that for decades dictated that changes of command
[00:04:15] occurred in the center of power, in Bolívar Square, but
[00:04:19] the new president chose the southwest of the country in the department
[00:04:22] of Valle del Cauca, a region traversed by great
[00:04:25] contrasts, wealth and inequality, development
[00:04:29] and above all, violence. For some
[00:04:32] analysts, choosing Cali is a way of saying that the new government wants to bring
[00:04:36] power to one of the country's most complex areas in terms of
[00:04:39] security. This region has a presence of FARC dissidents, the ELN, and
[00:04:43] drug trafficking networks. In this
[00:04:47] context, the opposition in Cali seeks to send a clear message: more
[00:04:52] the election of the presidency of institutional presence and more support for public forces. And there is another element
[00:04:55] that gives Cali symbolism: it was the epicenter of the social uprising of
[00:04:59] 2021, one that propelled part of the political movement that brought the
[00:05:03] current president Gustavo Petro to power. Four years
[00:05:06] later, the far right
[00:05:09] there could be bad intentions regarding what chooses that same city to mark the beginning of a new
[00:05:12] stage. But this decision has generated resistance among many
[00:05:15] Colombians who question the necessity of a change like
[00:05:18] this. The event will be at the USC arena, a
[00:05:22] venue at the Santiago de Cali University with capacity for
[00:05:26] more than 200 people. In that place, Del Espria will take his
[00:05:29] oath before legislators and other authorities. It is
[00:05:33] expected that some Latin American presidents, King Felipe VI,
[00:05:36] and other international guests will attend. But the change
[00:05:39] of scenery itself brings the challenge of guaranteeing security. In that city
[00:05:43] hit by violence, does this decision have any practical sense or
[00:05:47] is it more spectacle than political strategy? We're going to talk about it with my first
[00:05:51] guest.
[00:05:56] I already greet Juan Camilo Lozano, political analyst and professor at the Faculty of
[00:06:00] Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of Colombia.
[00:06:03] Thank you for being with us and welcome to Conclusiones. The first thing
[00:06:07] I want to ask you is what this change
[00:06:11] of this mentation of leaving
[00:06:14] Bogotá to go to Valle del Cauca is based on. Political
[00:06:17] spectacle, a signal, how do you see it?
[00:06:20] Well, I think both, and first of all, good evening and thank you for the
[00:06:24] invitation to your program and to all the people listening to us right now.
[00:06:29] laspriella is at this moment playing with his institutional
[00:06:32] image under a principle, which is to
[00:06:35] seek to demonstrate that power is not concentrated solely in Bogotá but that
[00:06:39] there is also room for the region,
[00:06:43] in this case Cali, to be scenarios for political
[00:06:46] participation and in this case, a presidential position. In that sense, I wouldn't be
[00:06:49] talking about a decentralization process, but
[00:06:53] here too, this has nuances because Cali, as you were
[00:06:57] already saying, was the epicenter of what was known in
[00:07:00] Colombia as the social uprising. So it's not just a symbolic
[00:07:03] message of decentralization that Abelardo de la Estrella seeks to send,
[00:07:07] but also a message of, ah, so to
[00:07:11] speak, of confrontation against those
[00:07:15] sectors that could arrive in his own government and that before him
[00:07:19] to the right have opposed right-wing policies.
[00:07:22] So the symbolic message goes along two lines, as I'm telling
[00:07:25] you: on the one hand, the issue of
[00:07:29] the opposition or the confrontation
[00:07:32] towards those sectors that do not
[00:07:36] Abelardo de la Estrella. It must be remembered that in fact
[00:07:39] Cali has a symbol of the social
[00:07:42] uprising, eh, which is represented by a monument to
[00:07:46] resistance, which is a hand eh standing
[00:07:49] in a certain place in Cali and that from sectors close
[00:07:53] to Abelardo de las Pellas, it has been said that during this administration
[00:07:56] they seek to eliminate this symbol of the social uprising.
[00:07:59] So that is the symbolic message that this position
[00:08:02] sends. However, it must also be said another thing:
[00:08:06] decentralization is not only a symbolic act, it is also an act that
[00:08:10] has to do with the use of national public resources
[00:08:14] to direct them to the interests of the territory.
[00:08:17] And so far, what has happened in Colombia is that
[00:08:21] most right-wing governments have not made a very strong effort in
[00:08:24] terms of decentralization. It must be said that, for example, in Colombia there are
[00:08:28] 1103 cities or municipalities, and of those
[00:08:31] eh, 1039 during Petro's government received direct investment
[00:08:35] resources, while, for example, in a government that one could qualify as an ideologically
[00:08:39] aligned, eh,
[00:08:43] let's say in the same political spectrum as Abelardo de lasfia's government,
[00:08:46] which was Duque's government, an investment in about
[00:08:48] 210 municipalities, that is, the difference
[00:08:52] was abysmal. So we will have to see if this exercise of
[00:08:55] decentralization, which is symbolic today, also translates
[00:08:58] into an exercise of material decentralization from an
[00:09:02] economic perspective.
[00:09:04] Now, speaking of symbols, the idea of this inauguration
[00:09:07] outside of Bogotá was to seek some symbol because it was not
[00:09:11] the first idea. From Las Priellas, he actually wanted to
[00:09:14] take office in a barracks with the armed forces,
[00:09:18] and this ends up being another option. So, does he seek to
[00:09:21] decentralize, or what he is seeking is to give a forceful message, whatever
[00:09:25] it may be? Well, again,
[00:09:29] both. He seeks to send a forceful message. He sought to take office
[00:09:32] before a military garrison in Popayán, eh, an
[00:09:36] act that he eventually rejects, let's say,
[00:09:39] he dispenses with it to do it in Cali under the excuse
[00:09:43] that in this area where the inauguration was to be held, there was a
[00:09:46] possible disaster, a possible
[00:09:50] natural disaster around a volcano that is near the area. However, this
[00:09:54] also has a political connotation. Look, eh, Abelardo de las
[00:09:57] Priella measured his pulse last
[00:10:00] week, eh, with
[00:10:04] the board of directors of the Congress of the Republic. In
[00:10:07] Colombia, generally, incoming governments manage to
[00:10:11] position themselves within the boards of directors of the legislature.
[00:10:15] Abelardo de la Estrella did not succeed. He was going for a
[00:10:18] candidate who was Congressman de Luque, and another
[00:10:22] candidate ended up being chosen, different from his political
[00:10:25] affinity, who is named Honorio.
[00:10:29] This problem, this
[00:10:33] that happened with this election, also echoed with the choice of the
[00:10:36] city where Abelardo was going to be inaugurated. It is reasonable
[00:10:40] to think that Abelardo de la Espriella, seeing that he lost the political
[00:10:43] pulse in Congress and that there was a very strong discussion in Congress
[00:10:47] about whether or not to allow an inauguration in a military garrison,
[00:10:50] chose a civilian route, which in this case is the inauguration in Cali.
[00:10:55] Why? Because there was an atmosphere or
[00:10:57] a climate of it being possible that
[00:11:01] his inauguration in a military garrison would not take place because he would not
[00:11:05] have the majorities in Congress, as happened with the
[00:11:08] election of the board of directors. So, the
[00:11:12] election, the inauguration in Cali can be read from two
[00:11:15] points of view, in summary. The first, from an institutional defeat that
[00:11:19] Abelardo de la Estrella suffered with the election of the board of directors and that leads him on this
[00:11:23] occasion to avoid another
[00:11:25] vote, to have the inauguration through civilian means. But it must also be said
[00:11:29] that, eh, in a second instance, this inauguration in Cali allows Abelardo de las
[00:11:33] Priria to project an image to the general citizenry of
[00:11:36] decentralization, of deconcentration of power, and of
[00:11:40] seeking that the regions in his government have the prominence that
[00:11:43] they have not had in other governments.
[00:11:46] I was just thinking while we were talking about these changes
[00:11:50] that Abelardo is looking for for his inauguration, that Javier Milei here in Argentina also, when
[00:11:54] he took office, he didn't dare. Not so much, but for example, the traditional message that
[00:11:57] is always given before the legislative assembly inside Congress, he preferred to give it
[00:12:01] outside of Congress, with his back to Congress and
[00:12:04] facing the people who had come to receive him,
[00:12:08] perhaps emulating a bit what the inaugurations in the United States were like. Perhaps
[00:12:12] here there was more of an attempt to make the
[00:12:15] Argentine ceremony similar to that of the United States. Abelardo de la
[00:12:19] Espilla, does he want to resemble someone, or does he want to resemble no one, does he want to be
[00:12:23] completely original? The new right
[00:12:27] seeks to shake up the institutional and traditionally
[00:12:30] established order a bit.
[00:12:34] Yes, and they seek to shake it up through unconventional acts,
[00:12:37] but in the case of Abelardo de la Espriella, it's a copy of many
[00:12:41] formulas, right? Of Bukele's formula, both in his physical
[00:12:44] appearance and in terms of security, of Milate's
[00:12:48] formula, in symbolic and representational terms, of the
[00:12:52] formula that the right has been using
[00:12:55] throughout America, in America in general. There is also a copy of what happened
[00:12:59] with Donald Trump. So this also reminds me a bit of the
[00:13:02] episode of Napoleon, when in his
[00:13:06] inauguration as Emperor of France, he takes the crown himself
[00:13:10] and does not allow the Pope to place it on his head, as was
[00:13:14] traditional. Outsiders seek that through
[00:13:17] symbolic acts that differentiate them from those who
[00:13:20] preceded them, seeking to show an era of change
[00:13:23] or transformation. Just as happened with Napoleon regarding
[00:13:27] the monarchies that preceded him, it happens today with these
[00:13:31] right-wing leaders who, not belonging to the traditional
[00:13:34] elite, seek to break away from
[00:13:37] them and demonstrate that despite being right-wing, they belong to a
[00:13:41] different spectrum of the political world, and in this case,
[00:13:45] a right that is not connected with traditional elites but is
[00:13:48] connected with other types of movements, in this case, for example, that of
[00:13:52] outsiders, those who come from businesses, those who come from the private
[00:13:55] sector. So yes, of course, this has both depth and breadth,
[00:13:59] and on the one hand it has the symbolic theme of breaking with the institutional, but
[00:14:03] it also has a very clear theme of sending
[00:14:07] political messages, and in this case, as we have already been commenting,
[00:14:11] sending the political message that Bogotá is not the
[00:14:14] city in which all kinds
[00:14:18] of ah
[00:14:20] inaugurations and all
[00:14:24] national political things should be carried out, but that other cities
[00:14:28] can also be the protagonists with the problems we have already seen throughout
[00:14:30] this interview. Juan Camilo, and seeing a little bit of this
[00:14:36] so to speak, by other leaders, you even pointed out
[00:14:39] this, let's say, this inspiration
[00:14:43] or this reminiscence with
[00:14:45] Napoleon, eh, finally, does all this
[00:14:49] end up serving a purpose or does it end up being a spectacle for
[00:14:52] politics? I mean, if there are
[00:14:55] pompous actions and little content, I mean, taking a bit of what Jamiley has done,
[00:14:59] what Bukele has done, I mean, all these
[00:15:02] changes that are seen so much, in depth, are they such
[00:15:06] changes or is it a bit of "gatopardismo" to change so that nothing
[00:15:08] changes? Well, I consider that
[00:15:12] it depends, it depends because in Napoleon's case,
[00:15:15] I go back to the example, eh, there was a clear break between the state and the
[00:15:19] church. But for example, in the case of the leaders who are taking office and are
[00:15:23] right-wing outsiders in Latin America,
[00:15:26] it depends on the country we're talking about. For example, with Bukele,
[00:15:30] what do people associate with Bukele, or what is the value associated with
[00:15:34] security? My law is associated with the
[00:15:37] economic recovery of Argentina, while, for
[00:15:41] example, Abelardo de la Estrella arrives with a very similar flag to
[00:15:44] Bukele's, which is the reclaiming of
[00:15:47] what a large part of his
[00:15:51] security, but he also comes with other flags. It must be remembered that
[00:15:55] Abelardo de la Estrella during the campaign said that he was
[00:15:58] the leader who was going to dismantle the left and that he was not going to align
[00:16:02] with movements close to this political sector.
[00:16:06] So a large part of the symbolism that he is currently
[00:16:09] trying to embody, not only through the inauguration, but also
[00:16:13] through, for example, the ministers he begins to appoint,
[00:16:17] seeks precisely to distance himself from the left and
[00:16:20] begin to fulfill that promise, at least symbolically. Note that
[00:16:22] for example, the issue of Cali, as we have already
[00:16:26] commented here, is not just an issue that has to do with
[00:16:30] decentralization, but also with
[00:16:33] placing the authority or the presidential command
[00:16:39] the city that represented one of the largest
[00:16:42] resistance foci of the social uprising,
[00:16:46] which was an uprising that was mobilized by the left in
[00:16:49] Colombia. But also his appointments, let's talk about the fact that, for
[00:16:52] example, the Ministry of Education at this moment will
[00:16:56] be in charge of a policy of
[00:16:59] a minister named Vivian Morales, who when she was a congresswoman
[00:17:03] advanced or promoted a project that sought to prevent
[00:17:07] LGBTI couples from having the possibility of adopting. She is at
[00:17:11] this moment in or will be in the Abelardo government in the Ministry of
[00:17:14] Education and many other appointments that have
[00:17:17] to do with, eh, promoting that
[00:17:21] right-wing agenda that Abelardo de la Estrella promised in
[00:17:24] his campaign. So that has both sides, it has both the symbolic
[00:17:28] weight of the spectacle and also a clear political
[00:17:31] directive that Abelardo de la Estrella will end up imposing, and we have to see if he fulfills
[00:17:35] it or not, that depends on the leader, but of course he is part of
[00:17:39] that political line of the new right in Latin America. Juan
[00:17:43] Camilo, let's stop here, we're going to take a break and then we'll continue chatting with
[00:17:48] Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of Colombia,
[00:17:52] about this inauguration of Abelardo de la Espriella. We will also review who will
[00:17:56] be present there. Short break and we'll be
[00:17:58] back.
[00:18:08] Hi, I'm Daniel Navarro,
[00:18:12] the Bacalar
[00:18:13] Lagoon.
[00:18:17] The Lagoon of Seven Colors gets its name from the different
[00:18:20] shades that the lagoon has throughout its
[00:18:22] extension. This lagoon is a unique
[00:18:26] ecosystem, it is truly home to an organism that is unique on the
[00:18:30] planet, stromatolites, they are some of the oldest life formations
[00:18:33] known on Earth, and well, Bacalar contains some of the largest
[00:18:37] stromatolite reefs on the planet.
[00:18:40] Our main activity is paddle boarding in the morning, it is an
[00:18:44] ecological,
[00:18:45] sustainable
[00:18:48] activity. The experience is like walking on water.
[00:19:04] To understand the world, you need to seek the truth.
[00:19:07] Let's go back to the time when we had to be much more
[00:19:10] human, that's why we follow the facts wherever they
[00:19:14] lead us, no matter how far we have to go,
[00:19:18] from internal history, there are new statements from President
[00:19:22] Donald Trump. I have an external perspective,
[00:19:25] we delve into the data, ready for whatever
[00:19:28] comes, the concern is for the common Cuban,
[00:19:30] we face the world. Who will
[00:19:35] finance Maduro's defense? Find joy in new
[00:19:38] perspectives and new horizons, every
[00:19:42] day, no matter where life takes
[00:19:45] you, we follow what
[00:19:48] matters to you, we forge a path to
[00:19:52] truth and understanding of the world.
[00:21:22] Faculty of Law, Political and Social Sciences of the National University of
[00:21:26] Colombia. We are talking about all the symbolism that will surround this
[00:21:30] inauguration of Abelardo de la Espriella this August
[00:21:33] 7th in Colombia, which will not be in
[00:21:36] Bogotá, but in Cali. And I wanted to review
[00:21:39] a bit who the guests will be, because this also entails
[00:21:43] a great security deployment, moving
[00:21:46] leaders, official delegations from the
[00:21:50] capital to a place in the interior of Colombia that is also so marked by
[00:21:54] violence and insecurity. Eh, finally, who ends
[00:21:57] up going, let's say, his companions from the new Latin American right
[00:22:01] and some others? How do you see this list of guests who have confirmed their
[00:22:05] participation, in which the US Secretary of State,
[00:22:09] for example, will not be present? Well, I'll start with that last point, it
[00:22:13] was expected that the Secretary of State would be present, because among other things, the
[00:22:16] Donald Trump administration openly supported Abelardo
[00:22:20] during the campaign. However, the delegation, of course,
[00:22:23] is a delegation, eh, not only from the United States, but
[00:22:27] internationally, that is aligned and favorable to the political
[00:22:30] project that Abelardo de la Estrella represents. Perhaps
[00:22:34] one of the most important surprises that this inauguration has
[00:22:38] in terms of guests is the possible absence of
[00:22:41] Álvaro Uribe Vélez. Look quickly, for those who are
[00:22:45] watching us, Álvaro Uribe Vélez was or
[00:22:47] is the Colombian politician who until these elections was the
[00:22:51] face of the right in Colombia. He was president twice,
[00:22:55] reelected, and in fact, both times
[00:22:58] he won the presidency of the Republic eh without a
[00:23:01] second round. Why? Because he achieved the majorities that were needed for it.
[00:23:05] And being the key figure of the right, he will not attend the
[00:23:08] inauguration of President Abelardo de la Espriella, at least from what is
[00:23:12] known so far. This marks a break in Colombia,
[00:23:16] because at this moment Colombia is
[00:23:19] debating between two rights: a more
[00:23:22] traditional right, more eh of
[00:23:24] political parties, versus another right that comes to power
[00:23:28] from the realm of outsiders and that begins to
[00:23:31] break with traditional figures. Álvaro Uribe, in fact,
[00:23:35] supported Abelardo de la Estrella in the second round of the campaign, and this
[00:23:38] break means a lot. Why? Uribismo was what
[00:23:42] allowed the Senate presidency to
[00:23:45] be won by the opponent of Abelardo de la Espriella's
[00:23:48] candidate. Activism at this moment in
[00:23:52] public demonstrations speaks from an ideological
[00:23:55] position distanced from Abelardo de las Pellas, and
[00:23:58] Uribismo, through its most important figure, Álvaro
[00:24:02] Uribe Vélez, says he will not attend. So that has a very important
[00:24:05] symbolic weight within the country because it means that the right
[00:24:09] is dividing in the nation and that Abelardo de las Trillas came to
[00:24:12] be a presidency of rupture. But let's also talk about other guests. It is known
[00:24:16] that, for example, the president of FIFA will come. Eh, I was
[00:24:20] seeing today a news item that Infantino will be
[00:24:23] present at the presidential inauguration of Abelardo de la Estriella. This
[00:24:27] of course sends many messages because it is not only eh a matter of
[00:24:30] politicians in office, but also of the political weight that
[00:24:34] sectors like football have globally. Today football
[00:24:38] also moves masses, and the fact that
[00:24:42] Infantino attends the celebration, the inauguration
[00:24:45] of Abelardo de la Estrella, sends a message, at least
[00:24:47] it sends two messages. The first
[00:24:50] eh, that Abelardo de las Pillas aligns with that business sector
[00:24:54] that, eh, basically is part of those economic
[00:24:57] elites globally, but also a
[00:25:00] message of unity around
[00:25:04] a closing of ranks of what one could call
[00:25:08] the great international establishment around Abelardo de la
[00:25:11] Espriella. Other figures, of course, eh, the
[00:25:15] countries that at this moment in Latin America align with Abelardo de la
[00:25:18] Estrella will also be present at the
[00:25:22] inauguration. It is known that, for example, President Milei was invited, and
[00:25:26] look, something you mentioned is very important.
[00:25:29] Cali is a city that historically and
[00:25:32] unfortunately is insecure. It is a city in which
[00:25:36] it is known that armed groups have been present,
[00:25:39] etc., and of course, as we have already been saying, Abelardo de la
[00:25:43] Estrella's message to these groups is a message of containment, of
[00:25:46] security, that he will not allow these places to be taken.
[00:25:50] But it is reasonable to think that not only the
[00:25:54] security schemes must be very alert, but that, eh,
[00:25:59] happens in this city, and I say this because
[00:26:03] recently today, eh, it is known that there was a seizure in the country of
[00:26:07] a vehicle loaded with explosives that was heading towards the city
[00:26:11] of Cali. Let's hope that nothing happens, but this city
[00:26:15] will have to reinforce its security schemes for this
[00:26:18] inauguration, because it is known that it could be the object of
[00:26:22] terrorist attacks, of, ah,
[00:26:25] situations that threaten public order,
[00:26:28] and the most worrying thing here is that, well, we will have a fairly large
[00:26:32] international delegation that needs to be protected
[00:26:36] from disruptive elements or that in this case
[00:26:39] represent, eh, armed groups outside the law that
[00:26:42] could try to torpedo this presidential inauguration.
[00:26:46] However, and going back to your question, clearly
[00:26:49] we currently have an international delegation that, on the one hand, from the
[00:26:53] United States, it was expected that perhaps
[00:26:55] ah, eh, eh, higher-ranking
[00:26:59] delegates would come, and at some point in the Colombian press,
[00:27:02] there was even talk of the possible surprise of, eh, a visit from Donald
[00:27:06] Trump, something that has not happened in other inaugurations, eh, in Latin
[00:27:10] America, eh, but that was perhaps expected due to the support that the President
[00:27:14] of the United States gave to Abelardo de la Estrella. Without However, the delegation that the United
[00:27:18] States will send is a delegation that, while not being of the
[00:27:21] highest level, does have an important level within American
[00:27:24] politics, as well as delegates from all over Latin
[00:27:28] America.
[00:27:31] Juan Camilo, we have a minute left. I want to ask you
[00:27:34] what will happen to the Nariño House, because the previous administration had already said that they could
[00:27:38] turn it into a museum. Uh, do you think something like
[00:27:41] this will happen or that at first he will try to
[00:27:44] reduce the importance of the Nariño House and it will eventually end up as always,
[00:27:48] that everything ends up converging there, because it is very difficult to change
[00:27:52] everything so drastically and in such a brilliant way. How do you see it?
[00:27:55] Well, in Barranquilla they are already
[00:27:59] the presidency of the republic, and the promise of Abelardo is
[00:28:02] to turn the palace into a museum
[00:28:06] open to the public. Look, Colombia
[00:28:09] is not a centralized
[00:28:11] country due to an absence of presidential
[00:28:15] will. It is a country only because there has
[00:28:18] been a lack of will, but rather it is a centralized country because its
[00:28:21] institutions have historically operated in Bogotá.
[00:28:25] Although President Abelardo de la Espriella says he will turn the
[00:28:28] palace into a museum, something he can do, he still maintains a presidential
[00:28:33] office in the San Carlos palace. He announced that in Bogotá, when
[00:28:37] he was in Bogotá, he would govern from the San Carlos palace.
[00:28:40] So, there are several things to say here. Bogotá will not lose its
[00:28:43] importance, at least not all the importance it has in national
[00:28:47] politics, because Bogotá is a city that is
[00:28:51] strategically located for the Colombian case and whose institutions
[00:28:54] have historically operated here. Uh, but
[00:28:57] it must also be said that this attempt at decentralization can indeed
[00:29:01] lead to the palace becoming an open-air museum, but Bogotá will
[00:29:04] continue to have an important role, not because Abelardo de las Priella
[00:29:08] loves Bogotá, because it seems that maybe he doesn't so much, that
[00:29:12] he will probably govern more thinking about the regions, but because the institutional
[00:29:15] burden and the weight of history will make it so that many of the
[00:29:19] decisions that are made converge in the capital of the
[00:29:22] country. Juan Camilo, thank you for being with us. That was
[00:29:29] the National University of Colombia who has been with us here in conclusions. Thank
[00:29:33] you very much, we will take a new break, but when we return here to
[00:29:37] conclusions, we will talk about the assassination of a young man while he was making
[00:29:40] content for social networks in Culiacán that
[00:29:43] reignites the debate about violence in Mexico. A short break and we will be back
[00:29:47] with this topic, don't go anywhere.