TELEARUBA — broadcast
20260810 180000 UTC
375 transcript segments
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[00:00:26] Mexico to be tried and convicted
[00:00:30] in the United States for
[00:00:33] drug trafficking. It was incredible to be there
[00:00:36] to hear these testimonies and to be
[00:00:39] able to learn
[00:00:42] exactly how drug cartels work
[00:00:45] and how they can operate with the
[00:00:48] support, many times, of government officials. Covering a federal
[00:00:52] trial in the United States is always a difficult task,
[00:00:56] you have to arrive at the court very early to secure
[00:01:00] a place inside the courthouse, but also because cameras are not
[00:01:03] allowed to record what is
[00:01:06] happening in the courtroom, so you have to take notes,
[00:01:10] imagine 8 hours taking notes of everything that
[00:01:14] is said, everything that happens to be able to report it to
[00:01:56] the data, ready for whatever
[00:02:45] nothing and continued
[00:03:11] trade is the spearhead new study on the future of Latin America carried out
[00:03:15] by a commission of right-wing and left-wing figures that has just been
[00:03:18] published by the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean of the
[00:03:21] United Nations, ECLAC, the study was
[00:03:25] co-chaired by the executive secretary of ECLAC José Miguel Salazar
[00:03:28] Chirinax. The former left-wing president of Chile, Michelle
[00:03:32] Bachelet, and the former right-wing president of Colombia, Iván
[00:03:35] Duque. Let's continue with Secretary Salazar Chirinax and former
[00:03:39] President Duque, as we told you in the previous segment, former President
[00:03:42] Bachelet was supposed to be with us, but she canceled at the last minute due to the flu,
[00:03:46] we hope to have her very soon. Let's continue with the
[00:03:49] interview. Your report
[00:03:52] provides a statistic that, when I read it, left me
[00:03:56] cold. It says that in terms of interregional trade,
[00:04:00] that is, trade between Latin American countries, Latin
[00:04:05] the America, instead of moving forward, is going point of reference to find out what's backward. That is, your report of, shall we say,
[00:04:07] says that interregional trade between Latin
[00:04:11] American countries fell from 21%
[00:04:15] of the region's total trade in 2008 to
[00:04:19] 14% in 2024.
[00:04:23] Comparatively, in Europe, interregional trade, trade
[00:04:26] between European countries, is more than 60%.
[00:04:31] So all the presidential summits that have been held to
[00:04:36] break, when we return we will talk to promote Latin American integration, all these great speeches, these great final
[00:04:39] declarations, were useless. I don't know if the
[00:04:43] word should be presidential summits or not presidential
[00:04:46] summits, but clearly that is an issue that we have
[00:04:49] to resolve, Andrés, because historically we have integrated
[00:04:53] much more with the world, today we have more trade with the United States
[00:04:57] than we had before, more trade with Europe than we had
[00:05:00] before, more trade with Asia than we had before, and in Latin
[00:05:04] America, intra-regionally, it is only 14% of our
[00:05:08] exports, what do we have to do? Increase it and
[00:05:11] increase it. Where? as the report also says,
[00:05:15] we have shown great progress in interregional
[00:05:18] trade of manufactures, that already shows
[00:05:21] us that there is potential, but we also have to take it to other sectors, and
[00:05:25] have greater intraregional trade like Asia has, like
[00:05:28] Europe has, we are talking about levels that exceed 30, 40%,
[00:05:32] well, that makes us less vulnerable and helps
[00:05:36] us to develop value chains within Latin
[00:05:39] America, so more than focusing on whether the
[00:05:43] presidential summits were useful or not, we clearly need
[00:05:46] to de-ideologize that
[00:05:48] commercial integration and I'll give you a very specific example of what happened with the Pacific Alliance that was born
[00:05:52] in 2012 and that,
[00:05:55] regardless of government changes,
[00:05:59] it advanced, it deepened trade and then in President
[00:06:02] López Obrador's government, perhaps due to ideological
[00:06:06] prejudices, Ecuador's entry was stopped, the continuity of the
[00:06:09] alliance was discouraged and... it is perhaps at its weakest
[00:06:13] level in the last 12 years, so the message that one can also
[00:06:17] convey from the report is this: it does not need
[00:06:20] to be full of ideological prejudices, integration is not
[00:06:24] left-wing or right-wing and, on the contrary, it strengthens us, it
[00:06:28] opens up business opportunities and makes us less vulnerable,
[00:06:31] yes, Andrés, to complement with a couple of data and
[00:06:35] ideas, this that President Duque
[00:06:39] has said is very correct, it's a 14% on average,
[00:06:43] but we have to understand that what happens is that
[00:06:47] in the last 20 years, the exports of the countries of the
[00:06:50] region to the rest of the world have increased very
[00:06:54] very strongly not only in goods but also in services in some cases, so
[00:06:57] that as this data of 14% is
[00:06:59] 14% of total exports, that doesn't mean that
[00:07:03] they have decreased, they have decreased in proportion from 24 to
[00:07:06] 14%, but if not then in billions of dollars it is
[00:07:10] trade that in billions of dollars is much, much larger than what it was,
[00:07:13] say 10 or 20 years ago, now however, 14%
[00:07:17] compared to other regions is little, there is a huge potential, and that leads
[00:07:21] to the issue of the summits that is the question and the issue of, shall we say, the old
[00:07:24] dream of integration, which is also a dream that was born or at least is very
[00:07:28] associated with the ideas of the 1950s
[00:07:31] and there is almost no presidential summit that does not have a paragraph that
[00:07:35] reiterates the will, it is a
[00:07:39] project, as the president says, an ideological dream,
[00:07:43] and then that there is no one in charge, we have to take charge of many issues,
[00:07:47] we have to take charge of border crossings, we have to take charge of rules of
[00:07:50] origin, we have to take charge of the norms
[00:07:54] of a great, what some authors call, the boring
[00:07:57] agenda, it's not an agenda of great news,
[00:08:00] but unless we work and there are technocracies and
[00:08:04] there are also investments,
[00:08:07] it will not be possible to overcome it, in addition to producing a
[00:08:11] better defense for external shocks, why should interregional
[00:08:15] trade be increased? And Andrés, I want
[00:08:18] to quickly complement something about that, is that intraregional
[00:08:24] of many other things, it is the
[00:08:27] construction of value chains within the same
[00:08:30] region, and on the other hand, it is also to increase
[00:08:33] intraregional investment levels,
[00:08:36] and one of the desires that the integration process has also
[00:08:40] had is that eventually we can also
[00:08:42] create stock markets, which was also the great aspiration of the
[00:08:46] Pacific Alliance through Mila,
[00:08:50] which was the integrated market of Latin America, so that we could
[00:08:53] take advantage, go out to the public stock markets,
[00:08:57] mobilize savings towards business development and thus
[00:09:01] have more capacity to make initial public offerings of
[00:09:05] new companies and technologically based
[00:09:07] transformation, which is also set out in the report, so yes,
[00:09:11] we make that mention of intraregional trade, but what we
[00:09:14] really want is for it to be trade, investment and
[00:09:18] to multiply the savings and financing
[00:09:21] vehicles so that in this way we can also expand the size of our
[00:09:25] companies, generate quality formal employment.
[00:09:29] Thank you very much, Secretary Salazar Chirinax, thank you very much,
[00:09:32] former President Duque, we have to go to a break, when we come back, we will talk to
[00:09:36] the writer and former vice president of Nicaragua, Sergio
[00:09:39] Ramírez, and then also the writer
[00:09:42] and political analyst, Venezuelan Moisés Naim, both
[00:09:45] have just released new books, don't go, we'll be
[00:09:48] right back,
[00:09:54] every night there is the possibility of a
[00:09:57] bombardment without filters, they should not
[00:10:00] treat our young people like that anywhere,
[00:10:04] here it is asked, is there freedom of belief in the country, in
[00:10:07] Spain, it is heard, this type of phenomenon is not
[00:10:11] that they are the generators of change, they are the expression of a change and their
[00:10:14] foreign policy is debated, it will be so lukewarm without taking
[00:10:18] positions, conclusions with Fernando del
[00:10:21] Rincón from Monday to Friday on CNN.
[00:10:26] Here on CNN, the news comes first,
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[00:16:22] Nicaragua, Sergio Ramírez, has just published a new novel
[00:16:26] called The Curse of Ramfis, his
[00:16:29] fourth novel, which features police inspector
[00:16:33] Dolores Morales and has as its
[00:16:36] background the political drama that Nicaragua
[00:16:39] is experiencing, let's go to the interview, Sergio, thank you for
[00:16:43] being with us, good to have you back on the show, before
[00:16:47] talking about your new novel, please tell us about your
[00:16:50] personal situation, because your Nicaraguan citizenship
[00:16:54] and nationality were taken away from you along with several other
[00:16:57] opponents in 2023,
[00:17:00] where do you live now, what is your life like, well in
[00:17:04] Madrid, I have lived in Madrid for 5 years,
[00:17:08] I had left in May 2021
[00:17:11] for the United States for medical
[00:17:14] treatment and
[00:17:18] while I was there I realized that I was being
[00:17:21] prosecuted for complicity with Cristiana
[00:17:24] Chamorro,
[00:17:26] the one they wanted to eliminate from the panorama as a presidential candidate,
[00:17:30] so they fabricated a trial for money
[00:17:32] laundering and then
[00:17:36] I decided not to return to the country, then
[00:17:40] I came to Spain for the presentation of that novel,
[00:17:43] Tongoleres didn't know how to dance, so
[00:17:46] I stayed here and the following
[00:17:48] year,
[00:17:50] my citizenship was taken away,
[00:17:54] along with another group of Nicaraguans, I was stripped of my
[00:17:58] citizenship, but I was also stripped of my lawyer's
[00:18:02] title later,
[00:18:04] so they declared me non-existent, this only happens in
[00:18:07] novels, yes, recently Daniel Ortega
[00:18:10] announced in a speech that there will be no more elections in
[00:18:14] Nicaragua, why do you think he made that announcement,
[00:18:18] I mean, he could have kept quiet and said
[00:18:23] on, I think he did it out of
[00:18:25] clumsiness,
[00:18:27] he, when he starts talking, he loses the thread of what he is
[00:18:31] saying, and suddenly he gets angry,
[00:18:34] he starts to be dominated by the...
[00:18:37] verbal and he thought that the best thing he could do at that
[00:18:40] moment was to declare that there would be no more
[00:18:44] elections,
[00:18:46] but he has tried to correct himself and say that
[00:18:50] it's not that there won't be elections, but that
[00:18:54] there will be elections but with healthy candidates,
[00:18:57] not with the candidates of imperialism,
[00:19:00] that's all nonsense, what do you think, Sergio,
[00:19:04] the international community should do about what is happening in this?
[00:19:07] It should impose commercial sanctions,
[00:19:11] suspend it from CAFTA, the free trade agreement of Central America and the
[00:19:15] Dominican Republic, I mean, what should the
[00:19:17] countries of the region do? And I believe that
[00:19:20] Nicaragua has the misfortune of not being
[00:19:24] a central case in the international panorama,
[00:19:27] even in the Latin American space,
[00:19:31] Nicaragua does not have the same attention as Venezuela
[00:19:34] or Cuba, because
[00:19:38] Nicaragua is somewhat on the sidelines
[00:19:43] personification of a
[00:19:45] country that has strategic
[00:19:49] interests, rare minerals,
[00:19:52] oil, Nicaragua has none of that, so when
[00:19:56] a case like this occurs, this declaration by Ortega that declares
[00:20:00] that there will be no more elections,
[00:20:04] there is a resurgence
[00:20:06] of protests, but these protests remain in the
[00:20:09] communiqués, the communiqués are
[00:20:13] lukewarm, there are organizations
[00:20:17] that don't
[00:20:20] even speak out, let's start with the Central Americans, SICA, to be a
[00:20:24] member of SICA, which is the Central American integration
[00:20:27] system, a requirement is to be a representative
[00:20:31] democracy, no, however, SICA
[00:20:35] remains silent. The Central American Bank for Economic
[00:20:38] Integration continues to consider
[00:20:42] it a normal
[00:20:44] partner, it is a subject of
[00:20:48] credit. The European
[00:20:50] Union,
[00:20:53] the 27 members of the European Union speak out through a single
[00:20:56] communiqué, quite lukewarm,
[00:20:59] where in the end they call for a dialogue with Ortega
[00:21:03] and that they are interested in that dialogue, that is, to dialogue with
[00:21:06] Ortega, I don't know what use it can be to call for a
[00:21:09] dialogue with Ortega at this
[00:21:12] stage of the game, so
[00:21:15] then those communiqués
[00:21:18] dissipate. Countries that don't even
[00:21:21] speak out, El Salvador and Honduras, who are close
[00:21:24] allies of Trump, both Bukele and the
[00:21:28] president of Honduras, Ascura,
[00:21:31] maintain absolute silence regarding
[00:21:34] Ortega, the president of Costa Rica has
[00:21:38] said that she wants to coexist with Ortega in
[00:21:40] peace, and that this is an electoral
[00:21:44] decision of the Nicaraguans precisely,
[00:21:48] so it is a very unequal response and I would say
[00:21:51] it is not, it is not, it is not
[00:21:53] decisive. Let's talk about your new book, Sergio, The
[00:21:57] Curse of Ramfis, once again, Inspector Dolores Morales
[00:22:01] is the protagonist, but this time investigating a crime in
[00:22:04] exile, please tell us quickly the
[00:22:07] plot of your new novel. Well, Inspector
[00:22:10] Morales is exiled
[00:22:13] in a small port near the border with Nicaragua
[00:22:17] in Costa Rican territory called Puerto. Puerto Solella in Salinas
[00:22:21] Bay, and there one morning he sees a four-masted
[00:22:24] sailboat anchored and between him and Doña
[00:22:27] Sofía, who is his collaborator, they find out that this
[00:22:31] sailboat is a high-end sailboat, for
[00:22:34] high-end tourism, and
[00:22:37] that it previously belonged to Generalissimo
[00:22:40] Trujillo of the Dominican Republic when it was
[00:22:43] called the Angelita, which was
[00:22:47] the floating cabaret of Rafi Trujillo and Porfirio
[00:22:50] Rubirosa, here the story begins, and then
[00:22:53] they call him to
[00:22:57] investigate a crime that has been committed aboard the
[00:23:00] ship and this whole crime has to do with
[00:23:04] money laundering from the proceeds of the
[00:23:06] bribes charged to thousands of immigrants who
[00:23:10] passed through Managua airport coming from
[00:23:13] places as far away as Libya, Senegal,
[00:23:17] only between
[00:23:21] 2023, 300,000
[00:23:23] immigrants passed through
[00:23:26] Managua airport, yes, through Managua
[00:23:30] airport, according to the records of the Honduran government, who
[00:23:33] are the ones who cross the Nicaraguan border, they passed through the
[00:23:37] Honduran border into the United States, this is what the
[00:23:41] novel is about, that is, the crime,
[00:23:44] a crime committed
[00:23:47] under the... shadow
[00:23:50] of an act of corruption
[00:23:54] with migrants, in one part of the novel a character
[00:23:58] tells the Nicaraguan exiles that since
[00:24:01] they no longer live in Nicaragua, they know nothing of what is happening there
[00:24:05] and that they always believe that a revolution will break out at any moment against
[00:24:08] the commander and his companion, but that no one
[00:24:11] will move them from where they are, not even with
[00:24:15] a stick of dynamite, close quote, do you
[00:24:19] believe that? I don't think anything will move the Ortegas
[00:24:22] from power, well, I don't believe that as much as the
[00:24:26] character, what I do believe, what he
[00:24:29] says at the beginning is an appreciation that I have, and what happens
[00:24:33] with all exiles, with all
[00:24:36] exiles, when a firecracker goes off inside a country,
[00:24:40] it immediately seems that a real revolution is
[00:24:43] coming, revolutions are not improvised,
[00:24:46] revolutions or changes are
[00:24:50] even peaceful political changes are a process of
[00:24:54] organization that in Nicaragua is now not
[00:24:57] possible because organizing is
[00:25:00] impossible, that is, under the fear, the repression, the
[00:25:04] imposed silence, the persecution,
[00:25:07] but I obviously, within Nicaragua, there will be a
[00:25:11] silent resistance, without a doubt, that
[00:25:15] one day it will end up
[00:25:19] manifesting itself. Sergio Ramírez, thank you very much for your time and
[00:25:22] good luck with your new book, we have to go to a
[00:25:26] the writer and political analyst, Venezuelan Moisés
[00:25:29] Naim, who has just published with journalist Kiko Toro a new book
[00:25:33] called Charlatans, we will
[00:25:35] ask them who they are, don't go, we'll be
[00:25:38] right back,
[00:25:45] I'm Mexican-British, I've been practicing
[00:25:48] journalism for 20 years in Mexico City, in the United
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