TELEARUBA — broadcast
20260814 180000 UTC
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[00:00:09] I continue talking with Luis Alberto Villamarín, a retired lieutenant colonel of the
[00:00:13] Colombian army, and I asked him because, for example,
[00:00:17] Guatemala, the Guatemalan government was very firm, right? In
[00:00:20] terms of, there will be collaboration, but there will be no
[00:00:24] foreign troops ever. They
[00:00:27] settled it once and for all from the Ministry of Defense. I don't know if
[00:00:30] it's due to the emergency, which is feasible, it could
[00:00:34] be, they haven't settled it like that, so I ask you if you are
[00:00:37] completely sure,
[00:00:39] gold. The Lieutenant Colonel, that Abelardo de la Espriella's idea
[00:00:42] is not something else.
[00:00:44] and timely information on In what sense? We have
[00:00:47] seen him since the campaign and all this
[00:00:51] time completely open to any approach and
[00:00:54] collaboration, even unprecedented, with the United States. So I don't
[00:00:58] doubt that things will be different. What do
[00:01:01] you think? No, definitely, Abelardo de
[00:01:04] la Espriella cannot do that. He is a lawyer. The
[00:01:08] thing is that he also knows how to manage image and populism, right? And he knows how to
[00:01:11] generate scenarios in which he is
[00:01:14] politically present, but he knows as
[00:01:18] a lawyer, as an expert in laws, and he knows the
[00:01:21] Colombian constitution very well, that not a single foreign soldier can enter
[00:01:25] armed. Yes, it is within the agreement signed in
[00:01:28] 1952. From then on, the United States can
[00:01:32] send specialists to instruct those who
[00:01:37] society. What operate the equipment, it can advise on the planning of operations, but never
[00:01:40] intervene in the command of the troops, much less in
[00:01:43] direct participation. The thing is that the left has historically
[00:01:46] used that argument, they have even invented a story about US
[00:01:50] bases in Colombia. In Colombia, there has never been a
[00:01:53] base like the one in Ecuador in Manta or like the one Mr. Novoa is
[00:01:56] promoting or like the one they are going to build in Peru. There has never been
[00:02:00] a US military base, there has been a presence. So he
[00:02:04] cannot go beyond that, and politically no one would
[00:02:07] accept it and Congress would open an investigation and it would
[00:02:11] complicate things. It seems to me that it is more part of his
[00:02:15] Assembly of Venezuela, who is Caribbean and tropical way of being and of constantly generating the
[00:02:18] political scenario to be
[00:02:22] the data, ready for what present. Yes, of course, taking
[00:02:25] political advantage of this type of announcements is very common in
[00:02:28] any scenario.
[00:02:31] This Latin American, that is, they do it, almost all
[00:02:34] leaders do it when this happens, but then how do we understand
[00:02:38] Lieutenant Colonel, this announcement? That is, basically what
[00:02:41] stopped being done with Petro and that was done before with other
[00:02:44] governments, right? Because it was done with
[00:02:48] Cepeda, sorry, with Cepeda, it
[00:02:51] was done with this Duque, it was done with
[00:02:55] Santos, it was done with Uribe, it was done with
[00:02:58] Pastrana, well. At different levels, but it didn't stop being done, that's what
[00:03:02] I mean. However, with Petro, it
[00:03:05] that? Now the other thing, the reached a point where there was a terrible break.
[00:03:07] We are seeing nothing but the normalization, let's say
[00:03:10] so, of these collaborations that have already been a tradition, so
[00:03:14] to speak. Of course, Fernando, the thing is that de
[00:03:19] than ever, it must be said clearly, a sector of la Espriella wants to take advantage of Trump's strategic intention to
[00:03:21] fight drug trafficking at all
[00:03:25] levels. So he can ask for much more support and
[00:03:29] logically he would give it to them, more intensely than we had
[00:03:32] before. Because, for example, to take down Mono Jojoy, it
[00:03:36] was naturally with US intelligence, but it was a whole
[00:03:39] process of protocols, of agencies, of
[00:03:42] intermediaries until the agreement was finally reached. Here, what would be sought is
[00:03:46] more expeditious intelligence and more support, for
[00:03:49] example, of ammunition for the planes, better
[00:03:52] armament for the soldiers who descend to the combat
[00:03:55] site, high-end technical
[00:03:58] system. Let's go with equipment, to enter the terrain, that
[00:04:01] is, an update, drones that did not
[00:04:04] exist at that time. That is what is being asked for and that is what he will get, but the
[00:04:08] Colombian military forces have the capacity, Fernando, to carry out
[00:04:11] operations. We saw Operation Haki, Hake, purely carried out by
[00:04:15] Colombians.
[00:04:19] Yes, of course, one cannot minimize the work and
[00:04:23] I believe that it would also be a very serious political mistake on the part of Abelardo de la Espriella
[00:04:27] who has given so much strength
[00:04:29] to the security forces in Colombia. Now,
[00:04:33] to close, I ask you this last question, Lieutenant
[00:04:35] Colonel, this collaboration
[00:04:39] in the result
[00:04:41] between Abelardo de la Espriella's policy, yes, of a firm hand
[00:04:45] and of going after all these groups outside the
[00:04:48] law, the collaboration of the United States, which can be much more intense due to de la Espriella's
[00:04:52] own disposition, do you foresee
[00:04:55] conclusive results in the
[00:04:58] short or medium term?
[00:05:00] I would say in the medium and long term, therefore, but
[00:05:03] logically, it is required that in the October elections,
[00:05:07] Trump does well so that he does not have problems in Congress and
[00:05:10] also that at the end of Trump's government it can be prolonged, because if you
[00:05:14] overlap, when de la Espriella leaves in 2 years, Trump is
[00:05:18] leaving, so there would come the problem that if the Democrats win, by mere
[00:05:21] political action, they could block it and complicate
[00:05:25] the matter, but there will be results, there will be, because the
[00:05:29] intelligence that the United States has is magnificent and with
[00:05:32] resources, the Colombian troops demonstrate that when they have
[00:05:35] political will, resources and
[00:05:39] technical reinforcements, the blows are wonderful.
[00:05:44] Well, we are going to wait for those results that, furthermore,
[00:05:48] necessarily,
[00:05:51] for Abelardo de la Espriella's popularity, I mean, to maintain it, it has to
[00:05:54] happen because it is the great promise of Abelardo de la Espriella, among
[00:05:57] other things, but it is one of the great banners since the
[00:06:00] campaign and of his government. Listen, Lieutenant Colonel,
[00:06:03] a hug, thank you for always accompanying me, I send you greetings.
[00:06:07] Likewise, Fernando, very kind and very grateful for your
[00:06:10] solidarity with our people who are suffering the
[00:06:13] tragedy.
[00:06:16] Always, always all my solidarity, empathy, affection and
[00:06:19] our support, as far as possible, this window is to
[00:06:22] help them whenever possible, of course, that
[00:06:26] it hurts us a lot. I said it yesterday, I maintain it and I will always do so.
[00:06:29] Thank you, thank you, Luis Alberto Villamarín, Lieutenant Colonel, retired from the
[00:06:33] Colombian army accompanied me. I am going to take a break, I'll be back,
[00:06:37] we are going to talk about what Venezuela announces
[00:06:40] at this closing of its first. first round of
[00:06:43] talks, they have agreements.
[00:06:47] Eh, there is one that can be key to fulfill it,
[00:06:51] it does not only depend on Venezuela, but
[00:06:54] it is also a very confusing thing, no, look, let's talk about this better when we
[00:06:58] return.
[00:07:03] go for a run in the city, Buenos Aires
[00:07:05] offers free running training in different parks and
[00:07:09] squares, there are proposals for beginners, people.
[00:07:12] older people and experienced runners, with
[00:07:15] specialized teachers and locations in 11 neighborhoods to train near
[00:07:19] home, running, strength, technique and long
[00:07:22] distance, sign up and join your nearest location, more
[00:07:26] information at
[00:07:27] buenosaires.gov.ar/ba-corre.
[00:07:33] I always wanted my bike import company and one day
[00:07:36] I said why not, but the road gets difficult, they
[00:07:39] close doors on you and you give up. Until I
[00:07:43] remembered my dad, son, when it gets harder
[00:07:46] uphill, you have to pedal harder, and
[00:07:49] I continued until I found
[00:07:51] yes.
[00:07:54] Your business is ready to write its next chapter and we are
[00:07:58] ready to accompany you. Your story writes ours.
[00:09:12] prosecuted and convicted in the United States for
[00:09:16] drug trafficking, it was incredible to be there
[00:09:19] listening to these testimonies and being able to
[00:09:22] learn exactly how
[00:09:25] drug cartels work and how they can
[00:09:29] operate with the support, many times,
[00:09:32] of government officials. Covering a federal
[00:09:35] trial in the United States is always a difficult
[00:09:38] task, you have to get to court very early to...
[00:09:42] secure a place inside the courtroom, but
[00:09:46] also because cameras are not allowed to record what
[00:09:49] is happening in the room, so you have to take notes,
[00:09:53] imagine 8 hours taking notes of everything that
[00:09:57] is said, everything that happens to be able to report it to
[00:10:00] you. The full story with Anderson
[00:10:04] Cooper, CNN's best journalists share deeply
[00:10:08] documented stories.
[00:10:13] Apple, if I was to take up sports betting, what would your
[00:10:16] advice be to me? Don't you believe the civil government should
[00:10:20] be guided and dictated by biblical law, right? Yes, how in the world did you
[00:10:23] survive this? The full
[00:10:28] The full story with Anderson Cooper, Sunday on
[00:10:32] CNN.
[00:10:34] It is important to have a clear perspective of what is happening in the world, to know
[00:10:38] the different angles of a single event. In perspectives, we
[00:10:42] take you to the key places where news
[00:10:45] happens. We interview the central characters of the
[00:10:48] stories. It is a program where we offer you a broad and
[00:10:52] objective vision of the world in which we live.
[00:11:25] producing journalism in Mexico City, in
[00:11:28] the United States and now in Miami for CNN.
[00:11:32] CNN América is a multiplatform program
[00:11:35] where you will have information from all areas that will
[00:11:39] allow you to understand the world from the angle you are
[00:11:42] seeing it from. In those three hours, you will not only have
[00:11:46] information from a political and economic perspective,
[00:11:49] but also health, from a women's perspective, but
[00:11:53] above all, it is a space where. we can have conversations not
[00:13:38] of meetings, Chavismo and a sector of the opposition, now more
[00:13:44] the Venezuelan opposition close a first round of
[00:13:47] dialogue with the support of the United States, of course, and
[00:13:51] I would not say the support of the United States, but with the
[00:13:55] Washington agenda because this is part of
[00:13:58] those stages that Marco Rubio defined. So not only the
[00:14:01] support but with the agenda that the United States has set.
[00:14:05] The product of these meetings, the first of them, the ones
[00:14:08] to which the press was not allowed access, resulted in two
[00:14:12] important agreements: to assist the victims of the June earthquakes, which was
[00:14:15] necessary, of course, to establish it, and then
[00:14:19] to advance in a reform of the justice
[00:14:23] the first one because to help the victims, it is necessary to involve a
[00:14:27] third instance, the
[00:14:30] president of the National Assembly of the Regime, Jorge
[00:14:32] Rodríguez, said it in these terms,
[00:14:35] listen:
[00:14:38] both parties will focus efforts on
[00:14:41] promoting the recovery of Venezuela's international reserve assets
[00:14:44] in the Bank of England,
[00:14:48] establishing mechanisms of transparency,
[00:14:51] traceability, auditing in the efficient
[00:14:55] use of
[00:14:56] them.
[00:15:00] That is, to attend to the emergency, the victims,
[00:15:04] etc., they are still looking for the money that they have not
[00:15:08] released, no, which has been the great struggle for a long
[00:15:11] time, among other things, of the regime,
[00:15:15] to recover that money. Let's see, if the Venezuelan gold that is in the
[00:15:18] Bank of England is not recovered,
[00:15:22] it seems, Jorge Rodríguez does not say it like that, but it seems that then. So they
[00:15:25] cannot help the victims. Remember
[00:15:28] that they have had frozen access since 2018, when the
[00:15:32] British government did not recognize Nicolás Maduro's electoral victory
[00:15:35] and. They say they will use the resources for
[00:15:39] housing, electricity, health, and debris collection in
[00:15:42] the areas affected by the earthquakes. That would be
[00:15:46] the end. Now, there he talks about traceability, about
[00:15:49] transparency, of course, I imagine that in the current context
[00:15:53] supervised by the United States, there will surely have to be mechanisms
[00:15:56] that perfectly define where that
[00:15:59] money is going, but let's remember that this is not the
[00:16:03] first time that this request has been made by the regime.
[00:16:07] The most recent was at the beginning of July, in
[00:16:10] July Delcy Rodríguez asked
[00:16:13] the British king, Charles III, to release that
[00:16:17] monarch has not responded publicly or has his
[00:16:21] position on the request been known.
[00:16:23] That is, it seems that the fulfillment of the
[00:16:27] first point of the agreement is tied to the resources managed by a third party, because
[00:16:31] that is how Jorge Rodríguez makes it
[00:16:33] clear, no. Now, what if the resources do not arrive then?
[00:16:37] So no, no, it can't be done or how, because that was not clear,
[00:16:40] no. There will be an external factor to which the
[00:16:44] difficulties in fulfilling what was agreed upon will be attributed, that is, in a few
[00:16:48] words, to blame England, no.
[00:16:51] We have not been able to do it because they have given us the money in England, will it be
[00:16:54] that? These are questions,
[00:16:57] no, that's why beyond the signature and the forms
[00:17:00] around the communiqué, because the form
[00:17:03] there, the form is very important, we have to read between the lines.
[00:17:09] It will be necessary to observe who assumes that responsibility to
[00:17:12] execute
[00:17:14] with or without the resources they are
[00:17:17] requesting.
[00:17:19] That is the first, the second, the second commitment that is reached regarding
[00:17:22] justice. The former deputy and representative of this sector of the
[00:17:25] opposition listed the issues in general
[00:17:29] terms, but listen:
[00:17:32] reforms to the Organic Law of the
[00:17:36] Supreme Court of Justice. Justice and
[00:17:40] other laws of the justice system; b) to
[00:17:43] renew and expand the judicial
[00:17:46] nominations committee; c) to
[00:17:48] activate a new nomination process for the
[00:17:52] renewal and appointment of all
[00:17:55] magistrates of the Supreme Court of
[00:17:57] Justice.
[00:18:01] On paper, it could seem like a relevant step, of course, on paper,
[00:18:05] but here too there are questions about the details of those possible changes, especially
[00:18:09] if the new rules will produce a truly independent
[00:18:13] justice. And there is an evident absence, for now there is no
[00:18:17] agreement on elections or on democratic guarantees, there is no mention
[00:18:20] of political prisoners, so it seems that these first consensuses are built
[00:18:24] around issues where there is still
[00:18:28] room for agreement. Let's
[00:18:31] see, how can there not be agreement on an emergency in which people affected by an
[00:18:34] earthquake or a double earthquake
[00:18:37] have to be attended to, right? How can there not be agreement on
[00:18:43] issue of the reform of the
[00:18:46] judicial branch remains very
[00:18:49] ambiguous.
[00:18:51] Yes, how, how are they going to agree on
[00:18:55] how they are going to guarantee that it will not again be an
[00:18:58] appendage of the regime?
[00:19:02] They have sat at the table more than 10 times,
[00:19:05] no, the real challenge is to know if the parties are
[00:19:09] willing to bear the costs of fulfilling what was
[00:19:11] agreed upon.
[00:19:14] Who has to pay the highest cost? Well, the
[00:19:18] regime, no, well it should be. I am going to take a
[00:19:21] break to return with my guest. He is already in
[00:19:24] Venezuela, he told me in a live stream that he wanted to return, he
[00:19:27] told me crying and he returned, he is in Venezuela,
[00:19:31] Roberto Marrero, lawyer and secretary of the National Assembly of Venezuela, happy,
[00:19:35] smiling, I'll be back with him.
[00:19:41] I always wanted my bicycle import company and one day I said
[00:19:44] why not, but the road gets difficult, they close doors on you
[00:19:48] and you give up, until I remembered my
[00:19:51] dad, son, when it gets harder uphill, you have to
[00:19:55] pedal harder, and I continued until
[00:19:58] I found yes, Oscar, we approved your credit, your
[00:20:01] business is ready to write its next chapter and
[00:20:05] we are ready to accompany you, let's go. Your story, writes
[00:20:08] ours.
[00:23:02] lawyer and secretary of the National
[00:23:05] joining me from Venezuela. I am very happy to
[00:23:09] greet you, Roberto. Of course, I knew you were in Venezuela because
[00:23:13] I follow your steps, but we had not spoken since you left
[00:23:16] Miami. How are you? You look very good, happy.
[00:23:21] Well, honestly, I'm happy to be in Venezuela and happy with the things that
[00:23:24] are happening. I'm not going to deny that I feel
[00:23:27] optimistic in this process, because
[00:23:30] although we have had many negotiation tables,
[00:23:33] many dialogues, none with these
[00:23:36] characteristics.
[00:23:39] But what is the main characteristic? That the United States is
[00:23:42] behind it, no, and that Maduro is not there.
[00:23:46] Maduro is not in Venezuela, Maduro is in New York, Maduro is out of
[00:23:50] power and that is, it is not a small thing, no, it is not a small
[00:23:53] thing that we are sitting at a dialogue table with
[00:23:57] deputies who had to be in exile, the previous dialogues were not in
[00:24:01] Venezuela for a simple reason, the representatives of the opposition
[00:24:05] could be arrested, persecuted, at this moment they are, they go to
[00:24:08] Venezuela, they can sit down, there is a transition, there is a
[00:24:12] there are two commissions that sit for a week
[00:24:16] and the people saw it, the public saw it, the country saw it,
[00:24:19] the world saw it. And also yesterday's announcement is not a small thing, it is
[00:24:23] a total renovation of the
[00:24:26] judicial power in Venezuela, all the magistrates, the
[00:24:30] nominations committee is expanded, the process is reopened so that new candidates can
[00:24:34] register, that is, the process that Jorge
[00:24:38] Rodríguez's assembly was carrying out did not enjoy the
[00:24:41] credibility for decent people, who
[00:24:44] really wanted to form a good TSJ, a
[00:24:48] Supreme Court of Justice for the people.
[00:24:50] to run. Now yes, now understanding that it is a process with
[00:24:54] supervision.
[00:24:56] But what will be the guarantee? I still find something
[00:24:59] shocking, it is very I was listening to Enrique today, Enrique
[00:25:03] Capriles, this and
[00:25:06] Enrique said, how can those who destroyed the
[00:25:09] country rebuild the country? It is an enormous
[00:25:12] contradiction. How, how, what guarantee will there be? I mean, you have there, Maduro is no longer there,
[00:25:16] Maduro is not there, but Diosdado is, Jorge is.
[00:25:20] exit, claro, I understand Enrique's point and that's why, what
[00:25:24] guarantee, what guarantee does the
[00:25:26] participation of the same people who were
[00:25:30] part of Maduro's group give you? What
[00:25:33] guarantee does it give you that now it will be different, that there will be a real independence in the selection of magistrates,
[00:25:37] etc.? It's that the nominations committee is being
[00:25:40] reopened, it is being expanded, it's not something they
[00:25:43] wanted to do, it's something that is happening evidently due to
[00:25:46] the accompaniment of the United States, that is, it is not a... I understand the doubts of
[00:25:50] some sectors, but no, no, no, they are not the ones who are going to appoint
[00:25:54] the magistrates, they are magistrates with a standard that complies with the
[00:25:58] constitution, simply by having the magistrates comply with the
[00:26:01] constitution, have no political militancy, have no complaints of
[00:26:05] human rights violations, have an impeccable resume, that complies with the
[00:26:08] constitutional requirements, you already have a guarantee that it is a supreme power, a
[00:26:12] power of autonomous justice, for the first
[00:26:15] time in 27 years we have the possibility of having a supreme
[00:26:19] court of justice and I remind you that this tragedy began with a
[00:26:23] violation of the Supreme Court of 1999 that allowed
[00:26:26] a fraudulent constituent assembly that changed the
[00:26:29] constitution and they handed over to a gentleman like Chávez who came
[00:26:33] from giving a coup d'état to make a constitution and change all the powers and he
[00:26:36] put them for himself, now we have to institutionalize the
[00:26:40] country, we have to go, as President Figuera said,
[00:26:43] eating the elephant piece by piece, this, in this
[00:26:47] stage, the elephant is the new supreme court of
[00:26:50] justice and with that we would achieve a step, for example, so that there are no
[00:26:54] more political prisoners, for example, I still have not been able to recover my
[00:26:58] assets and I have had a pardon since
[00:27:00] 2020.
[00:27:03] But, but listen, but let's put ourselves on the other side, it could
[00:27:06] work against them to have a real independence in the justice
[00:27:10] system, why? Well, because there are many crimes to prosecute
[00:27:13] there, no. Eh, why do you think they would
[00:27:16] allow it?
[00:27:19] That is something that is happening, I am on the side of Venezuela, on the side of the
[00:27:22] constitution, accompanying the National
[00:27:25] Assembly 2015 in the process, which is our legitimate assembly. No, I am not on the
[00:27:29] side of the regime and its preferences.
[00:27:33] But what I can tell you is that it is a different process, a process that is not
[00:27:36] to their liking, it is a process that is happening due to the need
[00:27:40] to have legal personality and elections, which is what we need
[00:27:44] to be able to move forward. The big oil industries are not going to invest
[00:27:47] the billions of dollars that need to be invested to rebuild
[00:27:51] the oil industry in Venezuela, if they don't have guarantees. There are no
[00:27:54] guarantees, there is no one, there is no legal entity that can commit
[00:27:58] the state, and that is why we need a new
[00:28:02] election. It is not just a matter of democracy and human rights, it is
[00:28:05] also that the world, capitalism, the big
[00:28:09] traditional oil companies are interested in Venezuela having clear rules,
[00:28:13] legal security to be able to invest. So the economic interests of the
[00:28:16] transnational oil companies converge with the interests of Venezuelans, which is
[00:28:20] that we want elections and to renew the powers and a transition to democracy.
[00:28:24] I am, I am completely in agreement with you. Now you say
[00:28:28] something very important, right? The assembly, the last one recognized as
[00:28:31] legitimate by... several countries, the one from 2015, eh,
[00:28:35] ah, what a good inclusion, exactly, but again there is a terrible
[00:28:38] exclusion. Nobody can deny the representation that María
[00:28:42] Machado and Edmundo González have, nobody can deny it, but they are excluded from the
[00:28:45] process. They already have a big flaw,
[00:28:48] Roberto, it's not that it's not a flaw, because this is not about electoral
[00:28:52] leadership, look, the great beneficiary of the
[00:28:55] elections in Venezuela, first will be the people of Venezuela who will be able to elect
[00:28:59] all the authorities, but nobody doubts that the leadership
[00:29:03] that leads the polls in all public opinion studies, if an election
[00:29:06] is held today or in 6 months, she will be the big winner. This is not
[00:29:10] a process against María, it is a process to re-institutionalize
[00:29:13] Venezuela. I'll give you an example, the primaries
[00:29:16] that the opposition held, we did them because it was the right thing to do and all
[00:29:20] the parties knew that María Corina would win. The Venezuelan opposition is not
[00:29:24] afraid of leadership nor is it afraid of transition, it is afraid of staying
[00:29:27] where we are stuck with this residual Chavismo or with
[00:29:31] Maduro. That's why we moved forward. The opposition has done the
[00:29:34] right thing, when it held the primaries it did not do it thinking about political calculations, we all knew
[00:29:38] that she would win the primaries and Enrique Capriles knew it, Manuel Rosales knew
[00:29:42] it, Henry Ramos knew it, they all knew it and the primaries were
[00:29:45] pushed. Why? Because it was necessary to renew the leadership. Today it is the
[00:29:49] same, we are from the National Assembly, which is the constitutionally
[00:29:52] legitimate institution to appoint magistrates and to
[00:29:55] appoint rectors because it is its competence, an exclusive competence of the
[00:29:59] legislative branch, and well, it will do it. What is
[00:30:02] happening? Because this was not possible on January 2nd, this is an unforeseen
[00:30:06] situation, as you well know, where we need to re-institutionalize the
[00:30:09] country and the elephant in pieces means
[00:30:12] justice, we all want justice, but to whom do we
[00:30:15] ask for it? To this CCJ that is absolutely theirs, a
[00:30:19] TCJ that for example, in 2015, the ruling that
[00:30:23] the TCJ issued was to annul the effects of the victory of the people
[00:30:26] of Venezuela on December 6th with that assembly with two-thirds of the opposition and it
[00:30:30] annulled it again. Exactly, something broke there,
[00:30:34] there began the transition from an authoritarian government to a
[00:30:37] dictatorship.
[00:30:38] And
[00:30:41] uh, that, that's clear to me, that is, you can't, well, there is no
[00:30:45] independence of powers at this moment in Venezuela, we have to work on that, uh
[00:30:49] tomorrow will dawn and we will see, Roberto, I have to go but I will
[00:30:53] continue bothering you as I have done for so many years so that we continue
[00:30:57] talking as this progresses so that we have our.