TELEARUBA — broadcast
20260920 110000 UTC
456 transcript segments
Google Cloud Speech-to-Text API (Chirp) + Gemini 2.5 Flash Non-Thinking
Data courtesy of The GDELT Project (https://www.gdeltproject.org/), from the Internet Archive TV News Archive.
Machine transcription. Treat it as a searchable index of what was broadcast, not a verbatim quotation record.

[00:00:49] material during my classes, so one of
[00:01:44] being with us. Today we're going to take a break from the political news of the
[00:01:47] moment and we're going to talk about two topics that will have a much greater impact on
[00:01:51] our countries in the medium and long term. We're going to start
[00:01:55] by talking about the future of education.
[00:01:58] Sweden, one of the most technologically advanced countries in
[00:02:02] Europe, is backtracking on the use of laptops
[00:02:05] in schools and
[00:02:08] of that group time to returning to pencil and paper. It's no joke, the Swedish government is
[00:02:12] reducing digital education,
[00:02:14] we are in class with saying that the academic results devices, let's call them, in of using laptops in
[00:02:17] schools have been disappointing
[00:02:20] and that they are ordering paper school books to be printed, just
[00:02:24] like before, old-fashioned. According to the BBC in London, the
[00:02:28] Swedish government party says that screen-free classes
[00:02:31] allow children to concentrate more, learn better
[00:02:35] to write and understand what they read. Will it be the
[00:02:38] beginning of a global trend to return to pencil and
[00:02:41] paper? Is it something that all our countries
[00:02:45] and parents in each of our homes should do?
[00:02:48] Today we are going to ask a world expert on the
[00:02:51] subject, and later in the program we are going to change the subject
[00:02:55] to analyze why Latin American women are having
[00:02:59] fewer and fewer children than ever before. According to
[00:03:03] America Scorley magazine, citing United Nations figures, it
[00:03:06] is a phenomenon that is worrying many economists.
[00:03:10] Several countries in the region could end up with fewer and fewer
[00:03:14] use of workers, people of working age, to
[00:03:17] generate the necessary income
[00:03:20] student learning, (via taxes) to be able to continue paying the pensions of
[00:03:23] those who retire. The figures are impressive, the
[00:03:27] birth rate in Chile, for example, is
[00:03:30] lower than in Japan, a country where the population
[00:03:34] has been decreasing for a long time, and throughout Latin
[00:03:37] America, the birth rate fell from six children per woman in
[00:03:41] 1950 to an
[00:03:44] due to the digitalization policy in average of 1. children, 1.8 children per woman
[00:03:48] today, from six children to
[00:03:51] was at the forefront 1.8 children per woman
[00:03:54] on average, listen to this, today
[00:03:57] Latin America is the region of the world that is aging most
[00:04:01] rapidly. The impact of this demographic
[00:04:04] change is already being seen, there are street
[00:04:08] demonstrations of retirees in Mexico, in Argentina and in several other
[00:04:11] countries, in Chile, the protests
[00:04:14] over the payments of private pensions
[00:04:17] were one of the main reasons for the social
[00:04:20] unrest of 2019 where people complained that
[00:04:24] retirees couldn't make ends meet.
[00:04:29] they carried in their luggage, in Today we are going to ask the author of the article, a renowned demographer,
[00:04:33] which Latin American countries face the most
[00:04:36] serious problems due to population aging and
[00:04:40] what will be done about it. Well, let's start with
[00:04:44] the future of education, let's start with Sweden's decision to reduce
[00:04:47] school laptops and ban cell phones in schools. We have
[00:04:51] with us Emiliana Vegas,
[00:04:54] Professor of Education at Harvard University and former senior
[00:04:57] official of the education departments.
[00:05:12] Sweden made this decision to start
[00:05:15] using fewer laptops in schools and return
[00:05:18] more to pencil and paper. Why do you think they
[00:05:22] did it? Well, what I understand is that in 2009
[00:05:26] Sweden began to replace textbooks with
[00:05:29] laptops in many schools, and
[00:05:32] since 2017 a National Digitalization Strategy has been
[00:05:35] adopted, including in preschool, primary, and
[00:05:39] secondary education. Uh, in. even in
[00:05:43] 2019 tablets became mandatory in
[00:05:45] preschool.
[00:05:48] However, during all this time, more than 10 years, no follow-up
[00:05:52] research was done on how much and how
[00:05:55] children were learning, and in the spring of
[00:05:59] 2022 uh, the minister said, "Well, this has been an
[00:06:03] experiment." But she probably already
[00:06:06] knew the results of international learning
[00:06:10] tests like PIRLCP,
[00:06:13] which were showing that the scores of Swedish
[00:06:16] students were falling, which was very
[00:06:20] unusual. Uh, so in
[00:06:23] August, a very prestigious institute in
[00:06:26] Sweden also publicly declared that there is
[00:06:29] clear scientific evidence that digital tools
[00:06:33] harm rather than improve student
[00:06:36] learning, and that for me is what leads to
[00:06:40] this decision in 2025. that the parliament
[00:06:43] approves the prohibition of mobile phones, which is not
[00:06:47] to say any, that is, all types
[00:06:50] of laptops, no, but only
[00:06:53] phones, but yes,
[00:06:56] they issue a policy of returning
[00:07:00] to books as a foundation, especially in early education,
[00:07:04] and it is actively implemented at the national level,
[00:07:08] so well, in the end it's something mixed, it's not a
[00:07:11] total prohibition but of mobile phones. that other countries
[00:07:15] in the world have also adopted, like France, in schools,
[00:07:18] children have to come in and check their phone, but if
[00:07:22] it's a, let's say a program
[00:07:25] of learning recovery through textbooks,
[00:07:29] through storybooks, through notebooks, uh, pen and
[00:07:33] paper, as we would say
[00:07:36] based on scientific evidence that suggests that children
[00:07:39] and and especially children whose brains
[00:07:43] are still developing learn better when they use
[00:07:46] uh
[00:07:49] analog, well, not digital learning
[00:07:52] instruments. Well, if I understood you correctly, Sweden banned
[00:07:55] cell phones in 2025, last year, but it started
[00:07:59] implementing the reduction of
[00:08:02] school laptops this year in
[00:08:04] 2026, right? And what they are doing is
[00:08:08] saying, well, laptops will be used
[00:08:11] but selectively and specifically when they are
[00:08:15] learning instruments, but not
[00:08:18] for the child to be there with a laptop, for example, taking notes and
[00:08:21] doing anything else, which is usually when there is free
[00:08:26] laptops. This drop in academic performance in schools, in
[00:08:30] international tests like the PISA test and the test
[00:08:34] you mentioned, is it happening only in Sweden or in several
[00:08:38] countries? Well, in reality it has happened in
[00:08:41] several countries due to the pandemic,
[00:08:44] COVID-19, uh,
[00:08:47] so there is no 100% clarity
[00:08:50] that Sweden's case is specifically
[00:08:53] and exclusively
[00:08:57] schools, however, what is true
[00:09:00] is that Sweden
[00:09:03] of bringing all kinds of
[00:09:07] digital tools for teaching and learning to schools at
[00:09:10] all levels, from preschool to high school, and has
[00:09:14] not been able to maintain its results, let
[00:09:17] alone improve student learning results.
[00:09:20] Emiliana, did these learning
[00:09:23] declines start with the pandemic or were they
[00:09:26] already happening, were they already happening since school
[00:09:30] tablets started being used at the beginning of the
[00:09:33] 2010s? Look, even in
[00:09:36] in 2016,
[00:09:39] reading scores in Sweden were
[00:09:42] falling, but they fell much more dramatically in
[00:09:46] 2021, which is the last PISA test, which is for reading and
[00:09:50] writing. So there was a small
[00:09:53] alarm, but they are not 10-point drops in the
[00:09:57] test, which
[00:10:00] is not huge, but it is worrying because obviously a
[00:10:04] country as, let's say,
[00:10:07] rich as Sweden with so much access to education should
[00:10:11] not be suffering learning losses. Now, obviously
[00:10:15] with the pandemic, all countries, very few did not
[00:10:18] suffer learning losses. You told
[00:10:21] me, Emiliana, in an interview last year that even in the United States,
[00:10:25] even at Harvard, at Harvard University where you teach, the
[00:10:29] use of laptops in classes is increasingly
[00:10:32] banned. Is that still the case or is that
[00:10:36] changing? Yes, in fact we have found,
[00:10:40] even the students themselves have asked us for it because there is a lot of
[00:10:43] scientific evidence, but also truly, I can say it
[00:10:47] now as a professor that I see it, this was my first
[00:10:51] year of teaching an entire semester without
[00:10:54] access to laptops during class time,
[00:10:58] and the, let's say, the enthusiasm of the students,
[00:11:01] their attention, how they
[00:11:03] participated, it was much greater than in previous
[00:11:07] years where they all could have their laptops.
[00:11:11] I use a lot of digital
[00:11:14] the things we did was print, for example, all the
[00:11:18] slides that I show on the screen so that they can take
[00:11:21] notes manually during class because also,
[00:11:25] one has to adapt, one cannot, for example, completely
[00:11:29] eliminate laptop access if some
[00:11:32] students have some specific needs, for
[00:11:36] example, visual or related to the way they learn.
[00:11:39] But to the extent that one can adapt with
[00:11:43] paper and pencil or with printing some of the materials that one
[00:11:46] will use during class, that is important. I think that
[00:11:50] something we learned, for example, this year is that the ideal
[00:11:54] is not to eliminate them
[00:11:57] completely, but rather, as I think Sweden
[00:12:01] is doing with this new law this
[00:12:05] year, to use them intentionally
[00:12:07] and selectively. But today, with the
[00:12:10] advent of uh
[00:12:13] social programs like Facebook,
[00:12:16] Instagram, and everything related to artificial intelligence, children,
[00:12:20] young people, students, in my case they are adults, it is very easy
[00:12:24] to get distracted. and not focus, and since classes actually
[00:12:28] last an hour and a half less, uh, we want to make the most
[00:12:33] maximize what we can and should learn when
[00:12:39] a professor or a teacher
[00:12:43] uh versus the time that students learn independently, in which
[00:12:46] for example, in our university we have guidelines but we do not prohibit
[00:12:50] the use of technology or artificial intelligence
[00:12:53] because they are resources and they
[00:12:57] are innovations that are very useful for learning. We have to take a break,
[00:13:00] when we come back we are going to ask Professor Vegas what she advises
[00:13:04] parents about how much time to let their children
[00:13:07] spend in front of the screens of school
[00:13:10] laptops and cell phones, how much time per day.
[00:13:14] Don't go, we'll
[00:13:15] be right back.
[00:13:20] They're backing him, but we have to inform the world about a coup.
[00:13:23] estado.
[00:13:55] podcast with the five most important topics of the day, just ask
[00:13:58] your smart device, give me the latest news from
[00:14:02] CNN. Next I will tell you the five things you need
[00:14:06] to know at this hour, updated every hour, at no cost or
[00:14:09] commitment, stay informed from anywhere and at
[00:14:13] any time, subscribe to our newsletter, listen
[00:14:17] to the five things you need to know throughout the
[00:14:20] day.
[00:14:23] Life was born in the sea.
[00:14:26] The ocean is the sustenance of our life, really
[00:14:29] the oceans generate more oxygen, many times more than
[00:14:33] the forests themselves, the important thing here in the Amazon is the
[00:14:37] water,
[00:14:40] these trees will harvest water, generating
[00:14:44] new rivers, generating
[00:14:46] lakes, this responsibility to take care of this simple
[00:14:50] house, is everyone's,
[00:14:51] we live
[00:14:54] on a beautiful planet, we have to
[00:14:57] keep it alive, from any angle of
[00:15:01] society, everyone has a voice to give and something to contribute,
[00:15:05] no, and we are all capable of taking small actions, we
[00:15:08] can't keep talking, talking, talking, it's time to
[00:15:11] act, put on your superhero suit and start
[00:15:15] doing something
[00:15:16] today.
[00:15:33] In Panorama Mundial we travel the world in search of events that
[00:15:37] impact our environment, we bring you the most
[00:15:41] up-to-date information, we disseminate what is discussed on the web and social networks
[00:15:45] in an organized and verified way to understand what is happening and how it
[00:15:49] affects us, come, join me to understand the
[00:15:52] world at the speed at which events occur, you choose the
[00:15:56] platform, World Panorama with Gabriela
[00:16:00] Frías.
[00:16:40] Thank you for continuing with us, we are talking about the future of
[00:16:43] education, we are analyzing Sweden's
[00:16:46] decision, one of the most technologically advanced countries in
[00:16:49] Europe, to backtrack on the use of school tablets
[00:16:53] and laptops and to return to classes with pencil and
[00:16:56] paper. The proponents of Sweden's measure
[00:16:59] say that the academic
[00:17:02] school laptops have been
[00:17:04] disappointing. We are talking
[00:17:08] with Emiliana Vegas, an authority on the subject, she is a Professor of
[00:17:11] Education at Harvard University and former senior
[00:17:14] official of the education departments of the World Bank and the Inter-American Development
[00:17:18] Bank. Let's continue with the interview. Emiliana,
[00:17:22] let's talk about Latin America, you have spent many years at the World
[00:17:25] Bank, at the IDB, studying and
[00:17:27] contributing to education programs in Latin
[00:17:30] America. Which countries are
[00:17:34] most obligatorily using school
[00:17:38] laptops and what results are they
[00:17:40] getting? Well, the truth is that, as far as I know,
[00:17:44] no country has said it's mandatory to use
[00:17:48] laptops or one-to-one
[00:17:51] classes all the time. What is true is that
[00:17:55] countries have varied in the investment they have made and how
[00:17:58] they have, let's say,
[00:18:02] used the system. The country perhaps
[00:18:06] best known for the Ceibal program, which was
[00:18:09] to give a computer or a laptop to every
[00:18:12] child and every educator, was Uruguay,
[00:18:16] which has had the program for about 20 years
[00:18:19] and has had many stages because in the initial stage
[00:18:23] it was a presidential initiative, let's
[00:18:25] say, to distribute devices to connect the
[00:18:29] country, so it was a bit more of an effort of, well, so that every
[00:18:32] school has a device connected to the internet, I have to make sure that
[00:18:36] there is connectivity in all parts of the
[00:18:39] country, no, and the education system
[00:18:42] adapted, but it was not the one that promoted
[00:18:46] it, let's say, uh, however,
[00:18:49] over the years and they saw
[00:18:52] that it was a tool that they could use to improve
[00:18:58] to innovate in education, for example, I remember when
[00:19:02] I was at the Inter-American Development Bank,
[00:19:05] we negotiated a loan
[00:19:08] where we facilitated
[00:19:11] an agreement with a British NGO so that
[00:19:14] Uruguayan children could access English teachers
[00:19:18] through technology who were truly
[00:19:21] teachers who spoke and handled the language very
[00:19:25] well, no, while getting the number of teachers for Uruguayan
[00:19:29] children to learn English in all classrooms in the country would
[00:19:32] have been prohibitively expensive and would have taken
[00:19:36] years, no. So, as in
[00:19:39] robotics, but also, I think
[00:19:42] Uruguay is also an example of a country that started with
[00:19:46] delivering devices
[00:19:48] and facilitating connectivity and letting the system
[00:19:51] adapt, no, and the system adapted but slowly, as
[00:19:55] education systems generally are,
[00:19:59] but over time, the Ceibal foundation was
[00:20:02] created, which went beyond delivering devices
[00:20:05] but rather how we do research to accompany the
[00:20:09] use of this technology in the classroom. So, Emiliana,
[00:20:12] summarizing, what would you recommend to Latin American
[00:20:15] governments and what advice would you give to parents
[00:20:18] of school-age children? Should they
[00:20:22] use school laptops or not?
[00:20:25] Look, first, with governments, I think we should
[00:20:28] see technology as a means and not an
[00:20:31] end. So when we have a problem, let's analyze,
[00:20:35] for example, if children are not learning
[00:20:38] fundamental reading and writing, which is a very serious
[00:20:42] problem in our region, uh, technology can be an ally
[00:20:46] but it can also be an enemy for other topics
[00:20:49] like, for example, learning foreign languages where we don't have
[00:20:53] enough teachers, learning perhaps some subjects already in high
[00:20:56] school where you already know how to learn independently, well,
[00:21:00] technology, laptops can be very valuable. I believe that
[00:21:04] if one allows children to
[00:21:07] use these tools that exist today for
[00:21:10] mathematics, for languages, for
[00:21:13] science, it's a very good productive use. Where I think there are
[00:21:17] many risks, and we have seen it, for example, in the recent
[00:21:20] case with Facebook in the United States, which lost a huge
[00:21:24] lawsuit where apparently the
[00:21:27] company was found guilty by the US
[00:21:31] courts of knowing that young people
[00:21:34] and children were using
[00:21:37] social media, like Facebook, in ways
[00:21:40] that were not good for their mental health, where they were being
[00:21:44] abused by others, by adults.
[00:21:48] So, it's also important to know that companies
[00:21:51] are looking for children to stay connected
[00:21:54] all the time, just like us adults. So
[00:21:57] it's clear that that connection is not necessarily
[00:22:01] healthy, not necessarily useful. As a mother,
[00:22:05] Emiliana, do you set limits for your children, do you set schedules, a
[00:22:08] specific time they can spend in front of the
[00:22:12] screen? No, my children are already grown, the
[00:22:15] youngest is 23 years old, so
[00:22:18] but uh, when they were
[00:22:22] young, first, I never gave them an iPad,
[00:22:25] for example, which is something many children I see, even my young
[00:22:29] nephews, where they are given an iPad a little so they stay
[00:22:33] distracted watching children's videos or playing
[00:22:36] while eating. That seems very harmful to me
[00:22:40] because the child should learn to be with adults to talk to other
[00:22:44] children and not need a big sedator, no, because it's almost
[00:22:47] like the pacifier they gave us, no,
[00:22:51] uh, and but yes, my children when they were
[00:22:55] of school age, uh, let's say, in
[00:22:58] probably in sixth grade, around 12 years old, when they already knew
[00:23:02] how to read, write, they knew basic
[00:23:05] math, it became important for them to have
[00:23:09] a computer. At first it was a big computer on our desk
[00:23:12] that they had to be there and had all kinds of
[00:23:16] controls on what they could access and what not. Eventually,
[00:23:20] and uh, their laptops when they started high school
[00:23:23] because there the tasks increase
[00:23:26] and already a lot of independent work, but they already had the
[00:23:30] basic tools to be able to
[00:23:34] control, and on the laptops I also put some controls because
[00:23:37] as I say, there is a lot, there is
[00:23:40] a lot of bad stuff there on the
[00:23:44] internet world, in the digital world, and we don't want
[00:23:47] our boys and girls to fall in with... teachers
[00:23:50] not these predators. Emiliana
[00:23:53] Vegas, thank you very much for your time. Let's point out
[00:23:57] that Facebook has said that it does not agree with the verdict and is evaluating its
[00:24:00] legal options. We have to go to a break, when we come back, we are
[00:24:04] going to analyze why Latin American women are having
[00:24:08] fewer and fewer children and what will
[00:24:11] be the impact of the fact that Latin America is becoming the region of the
[00:24:14] world that is aging most
[00:24:16] rapidly. Don't go, we'll be right back.
[00:24:25] My name is Pau Mosquera and I am a CNN correspondent, of
[00:24:28] all the jobs I have done, the one that has perhaps
[00:24:32] impacted me most personally has been the coverage of the war in
[00:24:35] Ukraine, seeing and narrating the stories of some of
[00:24:39] these thousands of refugees has undoubtedly been very difficult,
[00:24:42] but also necessary, since relating their
[00:24:46] stories has served to dimension the dramatic
[00:24:50] nature of this war, conveying the pain it is causing
[00:24:54] among so many innocent people, nevertheless,
[00:24:56] something that has surprised me a lot has been the
[00:24:59] resilience with which these people crossed the
[00:25:03] border, they did not shed a single tear unless we
[00:25:07] asked them about what they had left behind, their
[00:25:10] families, their belongings, but
[00:25:13] to that I would also add that the extra
[00:25:19] the few
[00:25:50] The complete story with Anderson Cooper on Sunday on
[00:25:53] CNN. The news never stops and
[00:25:56] CNN is always present to bring you the most relevant
[00:26:00] information. Now, weekends with Rey
[00:26:04] Rodríguez, who leads the Mirador Mundial team, your
[00:26:09] is happening in your city, in your country and in the world,
[00:26:13] stay with CNN to get accurate and
[00:26:17] timely information about the stories of the moment, Mirador
[00:26:20] Mundial, Saturdays and Sundays on
[00:26:23] CNN,
[00:26:26] here at CNN, the news is the
[00:26:28] first thing.
[00:26:32] Mr. Molinares to the Capitol, they left. ready, the funds for the
[00:26:36] Department of Homeland Security, when there is a lot at stake, we eliminate
[00:26:40] the noise to inform you clearly about the issues and
[00:26:43] policies that impact you, from decisions made in
[00:26:46] Washington to their repercussions throughout the United
[00:26:49] States, Latin America and the world. At what point are
[00:26:53] relations with the United States? Relations between the United
[00:26:56] States and Cuba have always been abnormal. Direct
[00:27:00] USA is that window through which you can enter the United States
[00:27:03] and see what is happening in this country. We follow the
[00:27:07] story from all angles to bring you the facts
[00:27:11] directly. Pro-immigrant groups
[00:27:14] filed a lawsuit from our studios in Washington,
[00:27:18] I am Juan Carlos López. Join me in Direct
[00:27:21] USA from Monday to Friday on
[00:27:23] CNN.
[00:27:27] To understand the world you need to seek the
[00:27:30] truth. Let's go back to the time when we had to be much more
[00:27:34] human, that's why we follow the facts wherever they
[00:27:38] lead us, no matter how far we have to go
[00:27:41] from the internal story, there are new statements from President
[00:27:45] Donald Trump, I make an external perspective,
[00:27:48] we delve into the data, ready for whatever comes, the
[00:27:52] concern is for the common Cuban, we face
[00:27:55] the world, who will finance the
[00:27:59] defense of Maduro, find joy in new
[00:28:03] perspectives and new
[00:28:06] horizons, every day, no matter where
[00:28:09] life takes you, we
[00:28:11] follow what matters to you, we forge a path to
[00:28:15] truth and understanding of the
[00:28:17] world,
[00:28:24] hello, I'm Andrés Oppenheimer, if you like that in addition to the political news of the day we talk
[00:28:28] about the topics that I am passionate about such as artificial intelligence,
[00:28:32] information and education, subscribe to our YouTube channel
[00:28:35] Oppenheimer Presents, there you will be able to see all our programs after they
[00:28:39] air on CNN and many other contents, subscribe for free,
[00:28:43] help us
[00:28:43] grow,
[00:28:50] enter to imagine, enter to
[00:28:53] dream.
[00:29:05] Come try the waves come and
[00:29:09] be happy Cabarete city of waves and wind
[00:29:12] Dominican Republic every night there is the
[00:29:16] possibility of a bombardment without
[00:29:19] filters, they should not treat our young people like
[00:29:22] that anywhere here they ask, is there freedom
[00:29:26] of belief in the country in Spain these
[00:29:29] types of phenomena are not generated by change
[00:29:33] they are the expression of a change and its foreign policy is debated
[00:29:36] it will be like that without taking a stand
[00:29:39] conclusions with Fernando del Rincón from Monday to Friday on CNN.
[00:30:49] Thank you for staying with us, America's Quarterly magazine, citing United
[00:30:53] Nations figures, reported a few days ago that Latin America is,
[00:30:56] listen to this, the region of the world that is
[00:30:59] aging the fastest. Why?
[00:31:02] Because Latin American women are having fewer and fewer
[00:31:06] children. According to the magazine, that will produce a transformation.