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20260920 123000 UTC
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[00:00:12] Only bread, bed and soap, nothing more
[00:00:15] for asylum seekers, was the motto in 2024 from
[00:00:19] the German radical right, which today they re-edit and
[00:00:22] radicalize. AFD says:
[00:00:26] for children of irregular immigrants, separate
[00:00:29] schools. for refugees, zones
[00:00:32] far from the general population, establishments with
[00:00:35] foreigners must pay to
[00:00:39] Stasi, which was the secret police of monitor them, because they claim that they increase violence. This is an alternative for
[00:00:43] Germany that triumphed in the local elections in Saxony
[00:00:46] Anhalt, with its leader Ulricht Sigmund, who intends to
[00:00:50] give a more friendly face to a group accused by the
[00:00:54] German Evangelical Church of wanting to destroy
[00:00:56] democracy. They were three seats short of...
[00:01:00] the local government. They capitalize on the discontent against Chancellor
[00:01:04] Merkel's government and the depressed economy of that area. They
[00:01:08] present themselves as the only representatives who know how to
[00:01:10] connect with the people, of which only Germans are
[00:01:14] a true part. My heart is bleeding,
[00:01:18] said a normally cold Angela Merkel in front of this election result,
[00:01:21] as if to make us calibrate what it means in the
[00:01:25] country that experienced the horror of Nazism, that
[00:01:27] AFD has for the first time won local
[00:01:31] elections. What is happening in the rest of Europe and how does it question the
[00:01:35] common project, and what do these movements tell us in Latin
[00:01:38] America? We will discuss it in Global Connection for CNN
[00:01:42] Spanish.
[00:01:46] We begin the analysis of this exciting topic with Franco de Ledone,
[00:01:50] who is a researcher, also an analyst, specialist in all
[00:01:53] issues of authoritarianism and global far-right, and a doctor in
[00:01:56] communication from the Free University of Berlin, author of the book.
[00:02:04] Thank you very much for inviting me. We were already
[00:02:07] talking about the proposals and the program of Alternative
[00:02:10] for Germany, but what is this party and tell us a little about its
[00:02:14] history? Well, it is a party that is located
[00:02:20] democratic AFD within the family of what are called radical right parties, that is, parties that through
[00:02:23] democratic tools
[00:02:27] manage to advance and possibly reach
[00:02:31] you what is always very difficult for power. And from those positions, they have an agenda that
[00:02:34] erodes different aspects of
[00:02:37] democracy, of democratic institutions, of
[00:02:40] values, rights and guarantees. It is a party that was born about
[00:02:44] 13 years ago in 2013, precisely
[00:02:48] as a Eurosceptic party, that is to say, it criticized the positions
[00:02:52] of the government at that time, Angela Merkel's government, of
[00:02:55] support or rescue for banks and
[00:02:58] rescue of the euro itself. You remember that crisis, right, that
[00:03:01] moment. And over time it mutated and became a
[00:03:05] much more radicalized party with
[00:03:07] these ideas much closer to
[00:03:11] what appeared in other Western European parties like the National Front in its
[00:03:14] time, Jean Marie Le Pen,
[00:03:18] election have on as a comparison, I mean, and it is the party we find today
[00:03:21] where, from the point of view
[00:03:25] of the current German political reality, it is
[00:03:28] absolutely normalized and having results, results
[00:03:31] like those of last Sunday. Let's talk about the leader of this
[00:03:35] AFD party, but in Saxony,
[00:03:38] who is
[00:03:42] Ulricht Sigmund? Ulricht Sigmund is a
[00:03:45] character who is now occupying
[00:03:49] a leading position in the Alternative for Germany party, but
[00:03:53] the data, ready for what's it has not always been like this, he has not always had
[00:03:56] such a relevant place. He gained
[00:04:00] ground after the election campaign of last summer where he got the result he
[00:04:03] obtained, but he is a person who comes from the sector, if you
[00:04:07] will, the most extremist sector of the party, the most radicalized sector, he
[00:04:11] is a person who has contacts
[00:04:14] with sectors of neo-Nazism, who has
[00:04:18] contacts with sectors such as the identitarian movement, which
[00:04:20] are classified by the federal office for the protection of the basic
[00:04:24] law as extremist positions and
[00:04:27] movements, and in that sense,
[00:04:30] it constitutes one of the elements that
[00:04:34] lead the Alternative for Germany party to position
[00:04:37] itself in those more anti-democratic
[00:04:40] spaces, and to build a sort of agenda that points
[00:04:44] to more authoritarian tendencies at this moment, yes.
[00:04:48] States Senator, both of And what is the key to their success? Because among several of the things
[00:04:52] they have said is that, in some way, beyond their
[00:04:55] real proposals, they appear as very direct,
[00:04:59] young, in contrast to Chancellor Merkel,
[00:05:02] and with a very intelligently planned
[00:05:06] campaign.
[00:05:08] Yes, that's true, they have a quality that other parties also have.
[00:05:13] of radical right around the world and that is a rather
[00:05:16] strong and quite
[00:05:19] efficient capacity to manage political
[00:05:22] communication. They can build
[00:05:25] messages in a fairly
[00:05:27] accessible way, in some cases even simplified, which allows them
[00:05:31] to access through social networks and what platforms offer with
[00:05:34] these short videos and so on to a very
[00:05:38] wide audience, an audience that perhaps other parties do not manage to reach.
[00:05:41] It is also true that during the campaign they showed a
[00:05:45] very close profile to the people, a profile
[00:05:49] showing themselves as a member of a community, right? But
[00:05:53] what explains this local victory of AFD in Saxony-Anhalt
[00:05:56] also in terms of national politics?
[00:06:00] Well, first of all, it must be said
[00:06:02] that Saxony-Anhalt is a rather
[00:06:05] small, sparsely populated, and quite poor region, one of the poorest,
[00:06:09] so we are always talking about a symbolic blow with what happened on Sunday.
[00:06:13] Now, as you rightly point out, it belongs to a
[00:06:17] particular region in Germany that is known as Eastern Germany or
[00:06:20] East Germany, which is precisely located where the old
[00:06:24] GDR was, where the old
[00:06:27] GDR territories were. That
[00:06:30] territory was unified with Federal
[00:06:33] Germany in the early
[00:06:37] 90s after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and a process of
[00:06:40] annexation, if you will,
[00:06:43] was generated there. The point is that in that reunification
[00:06:46] process,
[00:06:49] a narrative has been built, developed, and passed down from generation
[00:06:53] to generation of a sort of injustice, a sort of injustice
[00:06:57] in economic terms, but also in terms
[00:07:00] of positioning in decision-making
[00:07:03] places, etc. That narrative has
[00:07:06] become a sort of
[00:07:09] deep frustration, even for people who did not experience the process
[00:07:12] but who received it later
[00:07:15] by listening to their parents and grandparents, and from
[00:07:18] there, no party was able to take responsibility for that
[00:07:22] narrative. The majority of people who understood that process as
[00:07:26] unfair ended up seeking refuge in abstention,
[00:07:28] right? Now,
[00:07:32] has built an identity, a political
[00:07:35] identity through that narrative. AFD has presented itself as the
[00:07:39] only party that responds to that. that can
[00:07:43] convey it. From there, they have been able
[00:07:46] to establish a kind of connection that goes beyond the political
[00:07:50] program, that goes beyond the concrete content they
[00:07:53] propose. There lies at least part of that very
[00:07:57] important success they have had now. And of course, one can also
[00:08:00] account for an impressive mobilization, one of the
[00:08:03] highest participations recorded, with 78% with new
[00:08:07] voters, discontent, punishment for the general
[00:08:10] government, the leaderships we mentioned, the strategies we
[00:08:14] mentioned, also the anti-immigration
[00:08:17] theme and in favor of greater stability, with
[00:08:21] bad economic figures. I would like to ask you, Franco, what can you tell
[00:08:25] us, from your perspective, and what impact can this local
[00:08:30] the next local elections, but above all,
[00:08:34] thinking about 2029 in the next general national
[00:08:37] election, how much can it shake up, how much can it change
[00:08:41] the German political system?
[00:08:44] Well, first of all, it's a novelty that AFD is on the verge of
[00:08:47] forming a government. It has won another election, it was in Suhl
[00:08:51] two years ago, if I remember correctly, but it has never been so close
[00:08:54] as now to forming a government, as you rightly pointed out, it only needs three
[00:08:58] more seats and it would achieve it, or with some abstentions as well.
[00:09:02] This puts AFD in a role and in a space it didn't have
[00:09:05] until now. This allows AFD to press
[00:09:09] even harder
[00:09:13] on the rest of the parties to break the sanitary cordon, to
[00:09:17] build or at least be openly willing to
[00:09:20] build dialogue with AFD, something that no party wants to do except
[00:09:24] the left, the conservative left, which is a relatively
[00:09:28] new party that emerged two years ago and that has shown itself open to
[00:09:31] this, but going back to your question,
[00:09:34] AFD now has a much stronger
[00:09:37] position in the political spectrum, in the political
[00:09:41] scenario, better said. This will surely have an impact on the other
[00:09:44] regional elections, but above
[00:09:47] all, I believe that the strongest symbolic impact is at the federal
[00:09:51] level in terms of showing that the discontent with the
[00:09:54] federal government, with the Merkel government, is more
[00:09:58] latent than ever, right? That exception, if you will,
[00:10:01] that there may be with the electoral promises, both for the more,
[00:10:05] if you will, progressive
[00:10:08] conservative sector, would not be fulfilling
[00:10:12] expectations, and well, that is what the AFT vote would
[00:10:16] reflect, as growing as what we are seeing
[00:10:19] now in the polls. Yes, of course, and the halving of the CDU vote, which
[00:10:23] backs that.
[00:10:25] Briefly, to conclude, you who are there, how has it
[00:10:28] resonated in a country that experienced the Second World War, that
[00:10:32] experienced the horror of Nazism, how does the
[00:10:35] victory, even if regional, and the advance of this far
[00:10:39] right resonate from that perspective, how is it
[00:10:42] experienced? Well, first of all, I would say that in
[00:10:46] general there is a significant concern because, well, as I told
[00:10:49] you a while ago, the connections that may exist
[00:10:53] with more extremist, neo-Nazi sectors are worrying.
[00:10:57] It has been revealed that some of the candidates who were voted on that
[00:11:00] list belonged to the
[00:11:04] the GDR. Others have deep connections with
[00:11:07] neo-Nazi sectors, openly neo-Nazi sectors,
[00:11:11] sectors with connections to Russia,
[00:11:14] etc. There are many elements that cause concern. However, when
[00:11:18] you look at the reactions in general, you start to try
[00:11:21] to identify different profiles. You also
[00:11:25] find opinions like, for example, "well, they should be
[00:11:28] allowed to govern to see if they do it well, and if they don't do it well, they
[00:11:32] will be punished electorally," a position that
[00:11:35] I doubt, I doubt that this is the case, because in general it has not happened.
[00:11:39] We have examples all over the world that when the far right comes to
[00:11:42] power, it does not necessarily receive that punishment. And there are
[00:11:46] other positions that have to do with, "well, this will
[00:11:49] help the rest of the parties realize that they have to change their stance on
[00:11:53] some issues, that they have to change their discourse." These are some issues, something that also
[00:11:57] makes me doubt, because if they haven't achieved it until now,
[00:12:00] now we are in some way at the end of the normalization
[00:12:03] process. There have been other warning signs, so I also doubt
[00:12:07] that will happen. The point is that in any
[00:12:10] case, AFD occupies this place, a place that 13,
[00:12:14] 14 years ago it was impossible to imagine a party of this type
[00:12:18] having this role in Germany, and Germany, as well as the rest of Europe and
[00:12:22] many other places in the world, will have to learn
[00:12:25] to live with that and try to sustain democracy and democratic
[00:12:28] institutions in the best possible
[00:12:31] way. Franco, thank you very much for joining us on Global
[00:12:34] Connection. Thank you very much, see you
[00:12:37] next time. We take a break and return with more.
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[00:14:14] perspective, we delve into
[00:16:13] What does the triumph of this radical right in a local
[00:16:16] election in Germany mean, for Germany, for Europe and
[00:16:20] for Latin America? We will discuss it with Michelle Jafem, academic from the
[00:16:24] Institute of Political Science at the Catholic University. Thank you for joining us. Thank
[00:16:27] you very much, Mónica, for the invitation. We talked about the local leaderships
[00:16:30] specifically in Saxony-Anhalt with the
[00:16:34] local leader
[00:16:36] of AFD, but what does the national leadership mean,
[00:16:40] again a woman, Alice Weidel at the
[00:16:44] head of a radical right-wing party, as we have seen in other places,
[00:16:47] exactly, we have the cases, right, of Marine Le Pen in France, Giorgia
[00:16:51] Meloni in Italy, the leader of the far-right
[00:16:53] party of Denmark, there are repeated
[00:16:57] female leaderships in the European far-right, this
[00:17:00] is a particularity of these European
[00:17:04] parties that promote female leadership.
[00:17:07] Because they understand that gender equality and women's
[00:17:11] rights are achievements of Western civilization, and
[00:17:14] that allows these projects to be contrasted with the threat posed
[00:17:18] by the East, especially the Middle East and Muslim migration,
[00:17:21] which arrives in Europe, which understands women in another
[00:17:25] role within society and in a more patriarchal role, right,
[00:17:29] of subordination. The authorities show it. These more
[00:17:32] radical right-wing groups, is it correct to call them
[00:17:36] radical right? Far-right, the categorization
[00:17:39] we are using and the typology that is
[00:17:42] most recurrent posits that there is a family of parties
[00:17:45] that is the far-right. There we have two projects: the extreme
[00:17:48] right, which is characterized by trying to operate outside democratic
[00:17:52] rules, and right-wing radical populism, which plays within
[00:17:58] norms and takes advantage of democratic institutions
[00:18:00] to set back democracy, as AFD
[00:18:04] would be in that sub-family. It is advancing and
[00:18:07] how. What can this election tell
[00:18:10] us about the advance of this radical populist
[00:18:14] right in Europe? Well, we are,
[00:18:17] according to what various authors have proposed,
[00:18:21] in a fourth wave of the far-right, and in this
[00:18:24] fourth wave, we have seen European cases, Viktor
[00:18:27] Orbán, the case of Marine Le Pen herself, who has not yet
[00:18:30] come to power, but has grown. Her National Rally has
[00:18:34] grown in terms of
[00:18:37] representation in France. We already mentioned
[00:18:40] the case of Giorgia Meloni, but also Viktor Orbán, who
[00:18:44] came to power and then left. The Polish
[00:18:47] far-right party also came to power and lost the
[00:18:50] next election. That's why we also talk about Hungary,
[00:18:54] exactly, with Orbán, and that's why we talk about the wave,
[00:18:57] right, that is, in a way,
[00:19:01] activating and deactivating cases
[00:19:04] in different parts of the continent, but... We are facing a
[00:19:08] phenomenon that is spreading worldwide, which is why we can
[00:19:11] speak of a wave in general terms and with the
[00:19:15] same logic, right? Just as many authors have focused their attention on
[00:19:18] Europe, they are now also focusing it on Latin America and with the cases that
[00:19:22] are emerging in our region. What can we say
[00:19:26] then about the European project? Is it
[00:19:29] threatened by these groups that are anything but
[00:19:32] Eurosceptic? Exactly, one of the logics
[00:19:35] of the emergence of these parties is their opposition
[00:19:39] to globalization. They are deeply
[00:19:43] globalizing or anti-globalization.
[00:19:46] They are sovereignists, they understand that countries must
[00:19:50] resolve their political issues from within their borders,
[00:19:54] so transnational organizations and international governance
[00:19:57] like the European Union are threatening. They think that,
[00:20:01] as they had already discussed, AFD emerged as
[00:20:05] an opposition to the European Union's rescue plan for countries
[00:20:08] like Greece, during the crisis between 2008 and
[00:20:11] 2013, and today they are also very opposed, for
[00:20:15] example, to supporting Ukraine against Russia,
[00:20:18] exactly. This is one of the fundamental characteristics of these
[00:20:22] radical right-wing populist projects: one,
[00:20:25] an authoritarian nostalgia, in this case, a nostalgia for the
[00:20:29] German project of Eastern Europe, right? A
[00:20:33] search for the vindication of that previous state, right, of a previous
[00:20:36] order that was lost and that in a way explains the shortcomings and
[00:20:40] difficulties faced by that sector, that area of Germany, even if it is of a
[00:20:44] different ideological sign, even if it is a different ideological sign, and that is curious because there
[00:20:48] was a regime, but there was an order, and the nostalgia
[00:20:51] for that order. On the other hand,
[00:20:55] right, a populist discourse in the logic of separating
[00:20:58] society into an "us" and a "them," right? "They"
[00:21:02] being the corrupt elite, in this case the corrupt transnational
[00:21:06] elites, the European Union, right, that wants to
[00:21:09] threaten that "us," right, which is the pure German
[00:21:12] people, also the Muslim
[00:21:15] migration that is a civilizational, cultural threat to
[00:21:19] pure Germany. And finally, a component that is
[00:21:22] known as nativism, which is different from xenophobia, which is the idea
[00:21:25] that countries should function with the natives
[00:21:29] of those regions, that is, Germany for
[00:21:32] Germans, right, and German decisions made
[00:21:36] by Germans. What happens in Latin America?
[00:21:39] What can you tell us or what can we learn from this German process for
[00:21:43] our continent? Well, the far right has a diffusion
[00:21:47] effect, as happens in many political
[00:21:50] phenomena in general and in global terms also, right?
[00:21:53] From Latin America, the advance of the
[00:21:56] far-right in Europe has been
[00:21:59] observed, and it is no coincidence that there are links between the parties, these
[00:22:03] new rights or the far-right, as various authors
[00:22:06] are studying them, with parties like Vox,
[00:22:09] right, with parties like AFD or FPO of
[00:22:13] Austria, which was with its MEPs at the Madrid Forum last
[00:22:16] week here in Santiago. So, the
[00:22:20] success in Europe in a way inevitably makes one think
[00:22:23] that it encourages these projects in Latin
[00:22:26] America, but it must be understood that there are fundamental variations. The migratory
[00:22:30] issue is not a political issue for the
[00:22:34] Latin American far-right, right? The majority of countries, for
[00:22:37] example, Brazil, Argentina, which have had
[00:22:41] governments, or are having,
[00:22:45] like the Argentine case, do not have migration
[00:22:49] as a public problem or a matter of public concern,
[00:22:52] as it can be for the Chilean case, yes, the economy, yes,
[00:22:55] indeed security, and yes, the idea of that interference, right, of
[00:22:59] agents outside national states, right, in local
[00:23:02] politics, let's call it the UN, let's call it
[00:23:05] the WHO for the Argentine case, right, but
[00:23:09] of entities that seek to infer in local
[00:23:12] politics, right, with the objective of, in addition, in the populist
[00:23:15] logic, harming that "us" that is the pure people. I'll close by asking
[00:23:21] political scientists, but do you
[00:23:24] think this will still
[00:23:27] be a specific event for
[00:23:31] the next regional elections, will
[00:23:35] the more radical populist right of
[00:23:37] AFD also advance in Germany and perhaps, thinking
[00:23:41] about 2029, become the leading force in the national
[00:23:44] elections? I think there is a
[00:23:47] process that... an author whose
[00:23:51] surname is Valentín calls the "information
[00:23:54] shock," which is when these parties win elections,
[00:23:57] increase their representation and reach
[00:23:59] power, other political
[00:24:02] leaders do not see that power is taken by force,
[00:24:05] they see that they comply with institutionalism, they
[00:24:09] see that they are even capable of sitting down to negotiate, and what some have
[00:24:13] called in France the "sanitary cordon" is lowered. In
[00:24:16] Germany, the other parties have called it the "firewall,"
[00:24:20] right? I think not negotiating with them, exactly. That advance
[00:24:23] will depend on how the other political forces
[00:24:26] align themselves around this
[00:24:30] far-right force that is growing electorally,
[00:24:34] on the one hand, how much they keep it marginalized and how much they
[00:24:37] integrate it into the political mainstream, right, how much they
[00:24:41] have the capacity, they agree to form
[00:24:45] a coalition with them. We are already seeing the discussions
[00:24:48] German, even though there is no possibility of a coalition, but the truth is that they do not
[00:24:52] have a majority, so they have to negotiate, of course, to reach
[00:24:56] 50% of the seats,
[00:24:58] so part of the successes of the far right also have an
[00:25:02] endogenous character in the sense that it is outside the parties and it has to do
[00:25:06] with how the other political forces react, I understand, but also how
[00:25:09] the media react, how much they normalize these
[00:25:12] projects, because the
[00:25:16] language can change and they can moderate certain antisemitic positions.
[00:25:20] that they have put forward, Holocaust denial that they have put forward or at the
[00:25:23] end of the day Islamophobic that they have
[00:25:26] put forward, but the project remains, so they
[00:25:30] moderate themselves to grow and when they grow
[00:25:33] a certain impulse is
[00:25:37] you very much for joining us on global connection. Thank you very much,
[00:25:40] Mónica. We'll take a break and
[00:25:42] be right back.
[00:25:54] Here at CNN, the news is the
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[00:26:14] in Washington to their repercussions throughout the United
[00:26:18] States, Latin America and the world. At what point are
[00:26:21] relations with the United States? Relations between the United States
[00:26:25] and Cuba have always been abnormal. Direct
[00:26:28] USA is that window through which you can enter the United States and
[00:26:32] see what is happening in this country, we follow the
[00:26:35] story from all angles to bring you the
[00:26:39] facts directly, pro-immigrant
[00:26:42] groups filed a lawsuit from our studios in Washington,
[00:26:46] I'm Juan Carlos López, join me on Direct
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[00:26:53] news doesn't stop and CNN is always
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[00:26:59] now on weekends, chair kingdom.
[00:27:03] who leads the world watch team, your reference point to find out what
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[00:27:11] stay with CNN to get accurate and
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[00:27:18] world watch, Saturdays and Sundays on
[00:27:21] CNN, I am Mexican British,
[00:27:25] I have been practicing journalism for 20 years in Mexico
[00:27:29] City, in the United States and now in... also for
[00:27:32] CNN, CNN
[00:27:36] multiplatform program where you will have information from all
[00:27:40] areas that will allow you to understand the world from the angle
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[00:27:57] conversations not to polarize, but to integrate
[00:28:01] society.
[00:28:04] What excites me most is informing, inquiring,
[00:28:07] investigating the why of things, going to the bottom of the
[00:28:10] facts, here you will see what makes news and everything that
[00:28:14] impacts your daily life. CNN America with Rebeca
[00:28:17] Kelly, Monday to Friday on CNN.
[00:28:55] To understand the world you need to seek
[00:28:58] the truth, let's go back to the era when we had to be much
[00:29:02] more human, that's why we follow the facts
[00:29:05] wherever they lead us, no matter how far we have to
[00:29:09] go, from the internal story, there are new
[00:29:12] statements from President Donald Trump, I have an
[00:29:15] external perspective, we delve into the
[00:29:18] data, ready for what comes, the concern is for the
[00:29:21] common Cuban, we face the world,
[00:29:25] who will finance Maduro's defense,
[00:29:29] find joy in new perspectives and new
[00:29:32] horizons, every day, no matter
[00:29:36] where life takes you, we follow what
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[00:30:00] October 6, deadline to see if... AFD manages
[00:30:03] to form a local government, what repercussions does this have nationally
[00:30:07] for Germany and for Europe? We are following
[00:30:10] it closely, in global connection for CNN en Español.
[00:30:26] We are CNN, the world leader in
[00:30:29] news.
[00:30:44] Here is my promise: if the Republicans win the House
[00:30:48] of Representatives and the United
[00:30:51] them, because of our
[00:30:53] economic, tremendous economic.