TELECONGO — broadcast
20260806 123000 UTC
466 transcript segments
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[00:00:00] because the report was
[00:00:01] absolutely have customs arrived, but just after this session we will meet
[00:00:06] also have our friends from with the president, I announce already with the president of the administrative and legal affairs commission,
[00:00:09] the president of the economy and
[00:00:13] finance commission and the bureau so that we can find a
[00:00:16] modus
[00:00:19] operandi that would allow us to effectively have a
[00:00:23] definitive report because there are certain
[00:00:25] issues to clarify between the commission and the government, so
[00:00:29] we will meet quickly for a few minutes
[00:00:32] on this matter. So, this being said, we can
[00:00:36] therefore consider that the budget
[00:00:40] orientation debate
[00:00:43] which lays the foundations of a budget inscription process
[00:00:47] for the medium-term budget framework
[00:00:51] 2027
[00:00:52] and 2029 has taken
[00:00:56] place and if everyone
[00:00:59] agrees with us, we will therefore
[00:01:02] declare the session
[00:01:05] Sasungusu, President of the Republic, Head of closed. The session is adjourned. The
[00:01:09] departure of the honorable president of the National Assembly, followed by
[00:01:13] Sahi, Minister of Government, the honorable members of the bureau of the entire
[00:01:17] session, thank you. So, we'll meet again.
[00:01:21] We have therefore come to the end of this session dedicated to the budget
[00:01:24] orientation debate. Let's very
[00:01:27] schematically review the aggregates...
[00:01:31] by the Prime Minister and Head of Government that in terms of budgetary revenues, the
[00:01:35] Prime Minister said that these revenues will grow by an
[00:01:38] average of 3.6
[00:01:41] % per year. For example, in 2027, revenues
[00:01:44] would be 2971 billion CFA
[00:01:47] francs. In 2028, 3060
[00:01:51] billion CFA francs. In 2029,
[00:01:54] 3189.
[00:02:00] billion, sorry, let me rephrase, 3,
[00:02:03] 3149.7
[00:02:05] billion CFA francs. So these increases will be driven by
[00:02:09] the increase in tax revenues and
[00:02:12] the optimization of hydrocarbon
[00:02:14] and natural gas
[00:02:17] production. Expenditures will experience an
[00:02:21] average growth of 2.5
[00:02:24] %. That's what we can take away and finally
[00:02:27] add that the financing strategy will consider
[00:02:31] recourse to budgetary support from technical and financial partners. Earlier,
[00:02:35] in the conclusion of the Prime Minister, Head of Government, and the
[00:02:39] President of the National Assembly, the possibility
[00:02:42] of concluding an agreement with the International
[00:02:46] Monetary Fund was mentioned, and we know that Congo also
[00:02:49] benefits from the technical support of the World
[00:02:54] and dissolution of Bank and the AfDB to avoid unconstitutional debts.
[00:02:57] No... improve
[00:03:00] to rather combat
[00:03:03] unconventional debt. The Prime Minister also
[00:03:06] spoke of a plan for
[00:03:10] question of governance and the the conclusion, we repeat, we say it again at the top
[00:03:12] of our voices, of a new program with the IMF focused on
[00:03:15] resilience and sustainability.
[00:03:23] the entire process of
[00:03:37] of the challenges of environmental
[00:03:47] governance, and so the head of
[00:04:16] structuring, talking about
[00:05:02] already done. The question of
[00:07:22] is an industrial and commercial establishment. Its
[00:07:25] contribution to the national economy
[00:07:29] has been very significant. Nowadays,
[00:07:32] this public establishment, which has challenges to overcome,
[00:07:36] is nevertheless facing numerous difficulties.
[00:07:39] Thus, Séraphin Mundi, Director General,
[00:07:42] made it his duty to inform public opinion about the history
[00:07:46] and operation of the autonomous port of Brazzaville and its
[00:07:49] secondary ports. The port of secondary ports was
[00:07:52] created by ordinance 4 -
[00:07:55] February 16, 2000, signed by
[00:07:58] His Excellency Mr. Denis Assun Guesso, President of the Republic,
[00:08:02] Head of State, and this followed the session
[00:08:06] the ex-ATC. At that time, it was a single
[00:08:09] company that encompassed the port of Pointen.
[00:08:43] and then you have the General Directorate and the General Directorate
[00:08:47] has several directorates, you have
[00:08:50] first the Deputy General, then the other directorates, it's the
[00:08:54] harbor master's office, that is, what we call the port commander
[00:08:58] who manages safety and security issues,
[00:09:01] plus managing the fresh water on the ships that
[00:09:05] enter the port, and you have the operations
[00:09:07] department, you have the financial and
[00:09:11] accounting department, you... you have the equipment department,
[00:09:14] you have the general
[00:09:17] secretariat and you have
[00:09:20] the state body that accompanies us in the monitoring of budget execution, which
[00:09:24] is the budget control department. This is at the level of the
[00:09:28] the history of the autonomous port of Brazzaville allows us to
[00:09:32] understand the difficulties it faces today.
[00:09:34] Indeed, behind
[00:09:38] this institution lies a complex
[00:09:40] reality. To build the future, it
[00:09:44] is still necessary to face reality, and the
[00:09:48] assessment made by the general management is unequivocal.
[00:09:51] The current situation is that it is a port that is unfortunately today
[00:09:54] in a very dilapidated state. This means
[00:09:58] that the infrastructures are no longer
[00:10:00] up to par. There has been underinvestment for several
[00:10:04] years, and this leads us to the fact that today
[00:10:08] the infrastructures are in a very bad state, whether
[00:10:12] it is at the port of Brazzaville
[00:10:15] Strectosense or the other secondary sites where, in reality, when
[00:10:18] you arrive, you feel that the equipment and fortunes
[00:10:22] have taken a serious hit, and this
[00:10:25] for several reasons. You know that the country is going through very
[00:10:28] difficult financing times, and so we reorient
[00:10:32] the financing where it is more important or more urgent,
[00:10:35] and this leads us to this situation today. The current situation is not at
[00:10:39] all up to par, it is quite
[00:10:42] weak, but is that a reason to despair? No, we
[00:10:46] do not despair. However, despite this
[00:10:49] worrying situation, perspectives exist,
[00:10:52] projects are already underway to reverse the
[00:10:55] trend.
[00:10:57] Faced with difficulties, Congolese authorities are now focusing
[00:11:01] on a vast rehabilitation and modernization
[00:11:04] program. There was a
[00:11:07] time when itomi and lekiti were part of the port
[00:11:10] area of Braville, the port of Braville and secondary port, but the DC
[00:11:14] 2019 made these ports leave, so as not
[00:11:18] to fall, now they depend on the autonomous port of OYO. Future
[00:11:21] prospects, there is also and this is
[00:11:25] perhaps the opportunity to salute His Excellency Mr. Denis
[00:11:30] State, Mr. Anatol Conoso,
[00:11:33] Prime Minister, Head of Government, Mr. Honoré
[00:11:38] Fisheries, Economy and Navigable Waterways, and it is therefore under
[00:11:42] their leadership that a new wind is blowing over the
[00:11:45] sector. In particular, a few years ago, the
[00:11:48] government signed an agreement with the World Bank
[00:11:51] to finance the rehabilitation and/or
[00:11:55] construction of certain ports,
[00:11:57] and the plan provides for the rehabilitation of the port of Brazzaville,
[00:12:01] in particular the Euro site
[00:12:03] and the construction of a port in Bétou,
[00:12:07] the construction of a port in Liranga, the construction of a port in
[00:12:10] Macotipoko, it will come to fruition, and also
[00:12:14] provides for the rehabilitation and restructuring of certain
[00:12:17] ports such as Mosaka, Infondo, and
[00:12:21] so these are good prospects, and
[00:12:24] is already in place, teams are working on it, and we
[00:12:28] hope that in a few years things will go in the
[00:12:31] right direction. But, beyond
[00:12:34] infrastructure, a port remains above all a
[00:12:38] human organization.
[00:12:40] Thus, behind every ship welcomed and every
[00:12:44] merchandise processed, there are women and men who
[00:12:47] devote themselves to their tasks with dedication and
[00:12:50] passion. These women and men are unsung
[00:12:53] heroes who keep the port alive every day.
[00:12:57] The personnel who are under the general
[00:13:00] secretary's authority, both men and women, we
[00:13:03] have 144 agents
[00:13:06] subdivided into 97 men and
[00:13:09] 47 women who accompany us
[00:13:12] daily in our tasks. So in terms of
[00:13:15] needs, let's start with
[00:13:18] the men, the PAB needs well-trained
[00:13:22] men, without men... we all know, it's
[00:13:26] the primary resource of a company, so
[00:13:29] we need to have well-trained men, and
[00:13:32] at the time there was a training center here, right? Today it
[00:13:36] no longer exists, and so this means that our men have
[00:13:40] difficulty in updating our men's knowledge.
[00:13:43] Having spoken of men, which is obvious, you obviously
[00:13:47] have the equipment and infrastructure, if the
[00:13:50] equipment is old, if the equipment is old, it causes
[00:13:54] extra costs. Users, that is, shipowners who bring their
[00:13:57] boats, it will cost them much more, because approaching the boat will be
[00:14:01] difficult, sometimes even impossible to dock because access is even
[00:14:05] difficult, so equipment, infrastructure
[00:14:08] and men, this triptych can make tomorrow the port
[00:14:11] can write new letters in its
[00:14:15] history, because a modern port does not only
[00:14:19] rely on its infrastructure,
[00:14:21] but also on the quality of its services.
[00:14:25] Every day, goods and passengers
[00:14:28] transit through the autonomous port of Brazzaville, but
[00:14:31] concretely, what is its role? It's like in any port,
[00:14:35] right? For us, it's about receiving ships, processing
[00:14:38] them, and making sure that the passengers
[00:14:42] or goods that transit, in fact, here it's just a breaking
[00:14:45] point. The port, technically, is a breaking point. You have
[00:14:49] goods coming from all over, you have passes coming from all over, and then it
[00:14:53] branches out. So we receive... the goods from
[00:14:56] ships. Well, "ships" is even too strong a word. We can
[00:15:00] say in our terms, since we are on river transport, we will talk about
[00:15:04] barges, more barges, and then some boats
[00:15:07] that these boats and these barges transport
[00:15:11] material, transport goods. Arriving at
[00:15:14] the port, the port processes
[00:15:17] them, meaning they go through all the procedures at customs, at
[00:15:21] sanitary services, everyone checks, and...
[00:15:25] Then the users take back their goods, either when importing,
[00:15:28] that is, when they come from other parts of the country, they arrive in
[00:15:32] Brazzaville, then the goods, or else they
[00:15:36] come here to leave for the hinterland or to other
[00:15:39] countries like the DRC. So fundamentally, we process goods and
[00:15:42] passengers. Fundamentally,
[00:15:45] also, for a port to function, one
[00:15:49] essential element is needed: boats. Without a fleet,
[00:15:52] there is no traffic. Without traffic, there is no
[00:15:56] port activity. You can imagine that
[00:16:00] we must start from the principle that there can be no port without
[00:16:02] ships. And from the moment the
[00:16:05] national fleet, the national shipowner at the time,
[00:16:09] Socotraf, who alone managed the
[00:16:12] flow, the boats, the ships, once
[00:16:15] these boats no longer exist, it directly
[00:16:18] impacts port activity. Without
[00:16:21] boats, the port cannot survive. And so
[00:16:25] it has negatively impacted, and we feel
[00:16:27] it today in terms of turnover. There was a time when we
[00:16:31] could make a turnover of about 5 to 6 or 7 billion.
[00:16:34] Today, we hardly reach
[00:16:37] 2 billion, 2.3 billion. This tells you that the turnover has
[00:16:41] almost decreased by almost 50 % because the
[00:16:44] fleet no longer exists, and it is a question of supply and demand. If
[00:16:48] you have the offer of transport that is there, people
[00:16:52] will come, and the offer of transport being limited, the impact is
[00:16:55] felt at the level of port activity.
[00:16:59] This drop in traffic directly impacts
[00:17:02] the economic performance of the
[00:17:05] port.
[00:17:07] The difficulties, certain periods of the year are
[00:17:10] conducive for the port to find a
[00:17:14] higher level of activity. According to our studies, when
[00:17:17] we look at the statistics, they show that it is from June to
[00:17:20] September that we make rather good
[00:17:24] revenues, in quotation marks, meaning that at that time there are many activities
[00:17:27] taking place because it is the period when people build, when people
[00:17:31] try, you feel that activity increases
[00:17:35] for several reasons, and in this period from... to September, it is the good
[00:17:38] period when we still generate good
[00:17:41] revenues. Besides the economic activity itself,
[00:17:45] there are issues related to the environment.
[00:17:49] Indeed, the environmental issue is today
[00:17:52] imposed on all transport infrastructure in the world.
[00:17:56] The autonomous port of Brazzaville is not exempt from this
[00:17:58] reality. I think that we can only meet the challenge
[00:18:02] through willpower. First,
[00:18:05] we need to raise awareness. Let's be aware
[00:18:08] that the challenges, the environment, is a
[00:18:12] real problem. Once we are aware of that, we will
[00:18:16] have to implement plans and programs so that
[00:18:19] at least what concerns us, we can curb it. You
[00:18:23] will notice yourself when you go to the port area, there is something that strikes
[00:18:26] you, it is the scale, for example, of
[00:18:28] waste. Port waste
[00:18:32] is immense, enormous, and we
[00:18:35] already have in the pipeline a project
[00:18:39] that we will be able to discuss with our partners. For now,
[00:18:42] we have partners who have approached us, who are based in
[00:18:46] London, with whom we will be able to set up
[00:18:49] a study first so that we can clearly
[00:18:53] identify what types of waste and the actual
[00:18:57] quantity are, so that we can set up
[00:19:01] collecting this waste up to its transformation and even
[00:19:04] turning it into biogas, and so... it's
[00:19:08] a huge challenge, but
[00:19:11] let's start step by step. We are aware
[00:19:14] protection, but we will start by taking the right
[00:19:17] approach, by carrying out studies and assessments, and then
[00:19:21] little by little we will manage to set up
[00:19:24] probably even perhaps a small factory
[00:19:27] at the port level to process all the waste because most of it flows
[00:19:31] into the river here. This environmental
[00:19:34] transformation also requires solid
[00:19:38] partnerships. No port operates alone,
[00:19:41] its efficiency relies on an ecosystem of public
[00:19:45] and private actors. So, the partners of PBS, we
[00:19:49] have the very first one, it's
[00:19:52] TBC. TBC is actually a concession that the
[00:19:56] government signed, initially with the
[00:19:59] former Bolloré which was taken over by MSC, and they
[00:20:03] manage the concession where we have, if you will, the most
[00:20:07] useful part of the port, the container park, the public part.
[00:20:11] If you go, you will see on the other side there, you have cranes and
[00:20:14] you have a small container park. That's TBC, it's really the biggest partner who
[00:20:18] manages with us, and then the other partners are the
[00:20:22] shipowners, those who use our port as
[00:20:26] a home port who serve it, who come from
[00:20:30] either the DRC or the Central African Republic
[00:20:32] to transport their goods. The port
[00:20:36] is a partner with these structures that I
[00:20:40] am talking about, there are institutional partners, for example, customs.
[00:20:43] You cannot have a port, since
[00:20:47] it is a border, you must
[00:20:51] officials to see what is happening in their sovereign mission. You
[00:20:56] immigration, from the police who are
[00:20:59] institutional partners and from the gendarmerie who help us to continue
[00:21:03] to ensure safety and security in our area under
[00:21:06] our jurisdiction, but the
[00:21:09] true ambition of the port lies in its
[00:21:12] modernization. The future of the autonomous port of
[00:21:15] Brazzaville lies in two words: modernization and digital.
[00:21:21] The strategic vision, of course, we have it, we have expressed
[00:21:24] it many times. Today, the
[00:21:28] vision is to make the port as well as secondary
[00:21:31] ports reach modernity,
[00:21:34] that is to say that we are digitizing
[00:21:38] all our services, all our processes, without
[00:21:40] which no efficiency can be
[00:21:43] achieved. Apart from and thanks to digitalization, we can be sure,
[00:21:47] there are several advantages. One of them is already
[00:21:51] the increase in revenues because
[00:21:54] the fewer human interferences there are, the better,
[00:21:58] and this will allow us to manage and facilitate many
[00:22:01] things, to make sure that for both users and ports, we are
[00:22:04] win-win. And so we have a project within the framework of this legislation, there is a
[00:22:08] project that we are implementing which is to set up
[00:22:11] a single window for port operations where everything will be
[00:22:15] digitized, where there will no longer be any contact between people and
[00:22:19] users, so that when you arrive on your smartphone, you can pay and it
[00:22:23] goes online. So it's this vision of
[00:22:26] digitizing and at the same time modernizing,
[00:22:30] because once you digitize, it's very good, but the
[00:22:33] infrastructures must follow. And so
[00:22:36] these two pillars concern us, and we have them in our strategy. And besides, in this
[00:22:39] vein, we are working with a partner,
[00:22:43] a law firm that will be able to set up a strategic
[00:22:47] development plan for the port. By the end of it, you
[00:22:50] will have a strategic plan, the broad lines that we will draw, how we intend
[00:22:54] to, which will be the starting point, because without a strategic
[00:22:58] development plan for POBY, the rest... uh, you have, for
[00:23:01] example, the port of Antwerp and Bruges
[00:23:04] in Belgium, which is one of the largest
[00:23:08] that they even have a bit of a river port, they have a part
[00:23:12] with access to the sea, but then it's inland. So
[00:23:16] but there they have reached a level of automation and digitalization
[00:23:20] that is possible, and that is our dream: to make
[00:23:24] tomorrow this port completely digitized
[00:23:27] and that it has good security for all our
[00:23:29] users. This modernization is part of a
[00:23:33] broader reflection on the governance of public
[00:23:36] enterprises. Around the world, many
[00:23:40] ports have profoundly evolved over the past decades.
[00:23:43] Some have chosen to open
[00:23:46] their activity more to the private sector.
[00:23:50] Others have relied on public-private partnerships
[00:23:53] to accelerate their modernization. In
[00:23:56] Congo too, the
[00:24:00] involvement of the private sector regularly
[00:24:02] sparks debate: what economic model should
[00:24:06] be adopted to strengthen the competitiveness of the autonomous port of
[00:24:10] Brazzaville? We can say that it is an
[00:24:14] excellent idea. We
[00:24:16] start from the principle that privatization does not come out of nowhere.
[00:24:21] "It's because the head of state has observed
[00:24:25] how public companies behave, or at least how the
[00:24:28] governance of companies was done. The observation is
[00:24:31] alarming. Most public companies do not have good
[00:24:37] state, when he takes this initiative, we can only
[00:24:40] adhere to it. And that is why in our teams here, we are
[00:24:44] working to improve our governance so that when the time
[00:24:48] comes, we are at the forefront of the partners' expectations
[00:24:52] when they arrive, they find that there is serious and transparent
[00:24:55] governance, and that is a good thing for us.
[00:24:59] So, privatizing is no problem, there's no fear,
[00:25:03] no fear at all. On the
[00:25:05] contrary, the teams are working to make the port more
[00:25:09] efficient. It's an invitation for us who have the opportunity today to do
[00:25:12] better. When the private sector comes, it will realize that things
[00:25:16] are very good here, and I can say that if things are done well, there
[00:25:20] won't even be privatization, because the private sector that comes, we will
[00:25:24] just... look at history, everywhere that has been privatized,
[00:25:28] it's often with the same people, but with different
[00:25:31] results. So it's a question of awareness from us that the
[00:25:35] head of state trusts to say "improve governance and
[00:25:39] let's go" rather than being afraid. In any case, at our level, we
[00:25:42] are not afraid, it's welcome. With better governance, when the
[00:25:46] partners come, they won't have much to do but to accompany, which is
[00:25:52] governance is closely linked to that of sustainable
[00:25:55] development, because modernizing a port does not only
[00:25:59] mean investing in infrastructure,
[00:26:02] but also guaranteeing growth that respects
[00:26:06] environmental standards and international
[00:26:09] commitments. What about the MARPOL
[00:26:13] convention? Does it apply to the autonomous ports of
[00:26:16] Brazzaville and its secondary ports?
[00:26:19] Fundamentally, what is MARPOL? It is
[00:26:22] the convention for the pollution of
[00:26:26] ships, and it concerns more the maritime
[00:26:28] aspect. The MARPOL convention.
[00:26:32] Because here it's a whole story, right? The first convention, you know,
[00:26:36] was adopted on November 2, 1973. That's when
[00:26:39] MARPOL began. Then you have 78, and
[00:26:42] after that, you have about 5, six annexes to the MARPOL
[00:26:46] convention, which address certain aspects,
[00:26:50] for example, how to manage waste, for example, how to manage
[00:26:53] toxic products, and so on. So it fundamentally
[00:26:57] concerns ships that go to sea. Here,
[00:27:01] it's not the same type of ship, and it's not the same architecture when designing
[00:27:04] ships. So applying MARP which deals with the
[00:27:08] maritime domain to the fluvial domain, it has caused a lot of
[00:27:11] confusion, although globally we can be
[00:27:14] inspired by it, we can be inspired by it by saying
[00:27:17] we must fight against pollution from ships,
[00:27:21] uh and if you even look at the history, how did it start? with
[00:27:24] oil tankers, large ships that transport
[00:27:28] fuel, and it is there when accidents start
[00:27:31] to occur. that the International Maritime Organization
[00:27:35] began to regulate this question, so MARP
[00:27:38] yes, but it has many requirements. Basically, if
[00:27:42] we asked the port to apply the MARPOL convention,
[00:27:45] it's not even about that. What is it about? It will be about, if we even want
[00:27:48] to replicate it in the maritime part, what we call a bit the Paris
[00:27:52] Memorandum of Understanding, the Paris MOU. There we talk
[00:27:56] about port state control, meaning that the control of the port
[00:27:59] state, when the ships arrive, well the state has
[00:28:02] the obligation to control to know if these ships are in compliance with
[00:28:06] the conventions of the International Maritime Organization. So
[00:28:10] you see, it's a whole field that makes it so that here
[00:28:14] at the river level due to the configuration of the ships, we cannot
[00:28:17] apply it in the same way, it's
[00:28:20] completely different. If international standards
[00:28:24] constitute an essential framework, the realities
[00:28:27] on the ground also require adapted responses
[00:28:31] to the specificities of the... Congo River, because,
[00:28:34] beyond the regulations, navigation remains
[00:28:38] confronted with very real natural constraints. The
[00:28:42] Congo River offers exceptional
[00:28:45] potential, but, like all great
[00:28:48] waterways, it is subject to natural phenomena that
[00:28:52] directly influence navigation.
[00:28:55] The progressive silting of certain areas constitutes
[00:28:58] today one of the main technical challenges of the fluvial
[00:29:01] sector. It is clear that the low water level
[00:29:05] is a natural phenomenon
[00:29:07] and Brazzaville suffers from this phenomenon
[00:29:11] and every time there is a lack of rain
[00:29:14] or not enough water, it means there is no more rain, well the
[00:29:18] sand rises and ships have difficulty navigating. Last
[00:29:22] year we already took responsibility, we launched a dredging plan, if you followed
[00:29:26] the press release that for the first time a
[00:29:29] dredging operation of the Euro site, not to mention, was
[00:29:33] done and so for us it is a requirement so that every year we
[00:29:37] can plan in our budgets the dredging for now it is
[00:29:40] limited to Brazzaville because it is still the lifeblood of our
[00:29:43] company but the logic would be that in the long term
[00:29:47] we can extend this dredging to other parts
[00:29:50] of the ports that are under our direction but that
[00:29:53] said, the marking of navigable
[00:29:57] waterways is not the responsibility of the port of Brazzaville or secondary ports, that
[00:30:00] is the responsibility of the maintenance service for navigable waterways, it is a
[00:30:04] service between the Central African Republic and Congo.
[00:30:08] Today, this name was supposed to take care of that, but because of
[00:30:12] funding that is increasingly rare, they have difficulty
[00:30:15] doing their job. Otherwise, the dredging matter is a
[00:30:18] constant concern, we are thinking about it and by then we will probably
[00:30:22] launch another dredging in the sites that are under our
[00:30:25] direction, notably in Brazzaville.
[00:30:28] Guaranteeing navigability of the river is an
[00:30:31] essential condition for the development of fluvial
[00:30:34] transport, but beyond infrastructures and technical
[00:30:38] works, the real challenge remains human,
[00:30:41] because the future of the sector depends above all on the
[00:30:45] generations that will keep it alive.
[00:30:48] Behind every high-performing port are trained
[00:30:51] men and women, committed and
[00:30:54] oriented towards the future. For the general director of the Autonomous Port
[00:30:58] of Brazzaville,