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[00:00:03] Luigi is accelerating its march towards thought, development in line with
[00:00:06] the vision of the President of the Republic Denis Sasso Ngesso, who places
[00:00:10] local communities at the heart of national
[00:00:13] emergence.
[00:00:17] On August 8 and 9, 2026, join the
[00:00:20] energy, industry and
[00:00:22] future event.
[00:00:25] Lwingi Economic Conference 2026. Together, let's empower
[00:00:29] development. Good evening ladies and gentlemen, dear
[00:00:32] the state, in the interest of
[00:00:34] the economic success of
[00:00:54] viewers, welcome to Moto, as you know, this
[00:00:57] Moto show... I co-host it with Ismaël Gova, to whom I say good evening,
[00:01:01] good evening Clavis, so as usual, we have a
[00:01:04] guest, we'll talk about literature, the guest we're going to
[00:01:07] receive, he has written three books on forest governance,
[00:01:10] he is Mr. André Ondele Konga attention, no
[00:01:14] confusion between André Andélé who is the general director of the Congolese National Television, so
[00:01:17] of Télécongo and the writer we are receiving today Mr. André Andélé Konga, good evening
[00:01:21] sir, good evening,
[00:01:23] the state, welcome to Moto, I have three books here in front of me, I will
[00:01:27] take the most recent one, it's there,
[00:01:30] the most recent one, I can read the title, Denis Sasu
[00:01:34] Ngesso, two points from the dictate of La Baule to the epistemological-forest conception
[00:01:37] of production sharing agreements, this book, what message did
[00:01:41] you want to convey through this
[00:01:45] book? Well, thank you Mr. journalist
[00:01:48] uh
[00:01:50] for the opportunity you give
[00:01:53] me to try
[00:01:57] uh... to say a few words about my book,
[00:02:02] and the animals that it has just been published, it has just been published, yes, it is, it is published by
[00:02:06] editions,
[00:02:11] and even when a large leave La on August 25th, alright,
[00:02:13] not well uh, you know, Mr.
[00:02:17] the state, journalist,
[00:02:20] the this is a scientific
[00:02:21] article,
[00:02:25] this book is a scientific article, we
[00:02:28] all live in this country.
[00:02:30] and in this country, we have all followed
[00:02:34] that there was a moment of
[00:02:38] popular outcry
[00:02:41] against the mismanagement of a sector, the
[00:02:45] forest sector which
[00:02:47] formerly constituted the primary
[00:02:51] economy of the country of the Republic of Congo, yes until
[00:02:54] 72,
[00:02:57] and today this sector is no longer capable.
[00:03:04] to participate predominantly in the formation of the
[00:03:07] national GDP,
[00:03:10] the authorities of the forest
[00:03:14] economy were several times called upon
[00:03:18] at the national representation
[00:03:21] without success
[00:03:24] and
[00:03:26] the questions remain,
[00:03:30] everyone says, we don't see the wood money, where does it go, where does
[00:03:34] it go, if someone hasn't said it, they've heard
[00:03:37] it, so when you are an executive
[00:03:41] in a sector like that, where there's
[00:03:45] law, a popular outcry because people say
[00:03:49] everything and
[00:03:52] nothing, the wood money ultimately goes into the pockets of
[00:03:54] individuals, individuals, agents of
[00:03:58] of production sharing agreements. Denis Sasungeso the forest economy, hm, you must still be
[00:04:00] indignant, you must be indignant, hm hm
[00:04:03] uh to say but what's happening,
[00:04:07] because it's an interpellation,
[00:04:10] it's an interpellation, is
[00:04:12] what the
[00:04:14] population says against the
[00:04:18] sector true or not true, what should be
[00:04:21] done, answers must be provided, and
[00:04:24] so in this book, yes? we tried to provide the
[00:04:28] answers to this popular outcry, yes
[00:04:32] but what did you say when you say provide the answers? what did you say?
[00:04:35] What is your answer to the question where does the wood money go?
[00:04:39] Ah the first to have answered
[00:04:43] that already, to have tried hm hm to provide the answer to
[00:04:47] that, it's
[00:04:50] Mr. So, yes, who
[00:04:54] said what? Who at the election?
[00:04:57] presidential election of 2016
[00:05:00] in his project of society
[00:05:03] the march towards development.
[00:05:07] proposes
[00:05:08] on page
[00:05:12] 20, 2nd
[00:05:15] paragraph, he says this, I try to
[00:05:18] quote
[00:05:22] him, for
[00:05:24] mining
[00:05:26] and forestry
[00:05:30] exploitation, the state
[00:05:33] will evolve the related
[00:05:36] codes in order to
[00:05:40] bring them closer to
[00:05:43] oil
[00:05:47] exploitation which leads to
[00:05:50] production sharing agreements or
[00:05:53] service agreements (end of
[00:05:56] quote) yes, and so the President of the Republic
[00:05:59] thinks that to solve this problem, let's make it such
[00:06:03] that in the forest we sign production sharing agreements, at
[00:06:07] that moment
[00:06:10] we sign contracts with whom? with the forest operators,
[00:06:14] yes, at that moment everyone will see clearly
[00:06:18] what the forest
[00:06:22] brings to the national GDP, yes because, like oil, which
[00:06:26] also didn't seem to bring anything
[00:06:29] good, but when the country
[00:06:33] moved into the framework of oil
[00:06:36] production sharing agreements, we see a bit
[00:06:40] more clearly about the oil resource, so he
[00:06:43] proposes, he is a candidate and he
[00:06:47] proposes, he says that if I am elected, I
[00:06:51] will, in the context of mines and forests,
[00:06:54] uh, use production sharing agreements, he
[00:06:57] proposes, but you see from 2016 to
[00:07:01] today, it was March 2016,
[00:07:04] yes, it will soon be 10 years, so it's already 10 years, yes
[00:07:08] it's already 10 years, we haven't experienced it.
[00:07:12] But what's happening? Why, 10 years after the President of the
[00:07:36] Republic promised this to the people, can't we achieve it?
[00:07:40] Yes, now, what do you think? The President spoke,
[00:07:42] yes, but what do you think as a forest governance expert?
[00:07:46] Why aren't we progressing? It's simple, it's simple. Why aren't we progressing? It's
[00:07:49] simple. In this book, yes, I come
[00:07:52] to give the scientific traceability,
[00:07:56] I give in this book the scientific
[00:07:59] traceability of production
[00:08:03] sharing agreements, that is to
[00:08:05] say, that is to say, in this book
[00:08:08] I try to explain what is meant by a
[00:08:12] production sharing agreement in a forest environment, is
[00:08:16] it the same as an oil and gas agreement or is it
[00:08:20] another, I give the
[00:08:21] traceability, I say I give the
[00:08:25] traceability because when the
[00:08:28] president speaks of production sharing agreements, what does
[00:08:32] he want?
[00:08:35] Listen, a forest operator, an
[00:08:37] investor, came to Congo, he
[00:08:41] says: I want to invest. in Mr. Quibala's forest, hmm,
[00:08:44] okay, he brings everything
[00:08:47] he has, he brings technicality,
[00:08:51] machines, everything, even people, and everything
[00:08:55] in accordance with the rules of
[00:08:58] with the rules of
[00:09:00] forest regulation of the country and
[00:09:03] everything, so why should we share his production
[00:09:07] with him? Why should we share his
[00:09:09] production but in relation to the right of for example, he exploits
[00:09:13] here, ah here, he exploits here, no, Mr.
[00:09:16] Kibba, so we must first
[00:09:20] say that if an investor
[00:09:23] comes here with all the means, the financial
[00:09:26] means, the mechanical means and everything
[00:09:29] that follows, he
[00:09:31] is a forest operator,
[00:09:35] he exploits the resources that
[00:09:37] are on Congolese soil, that's what I was talking about.
[00:09:41] And these Congolese soils
[00:09:44] belong to what
[00:09:46] I call in the book a landowner.
[00:09:50] In the context of our
[00:09:54] country, the Congolese state has
[00:09:56] private forests that belong
[00:10:00] to it, at that moment the Congolese state is
[00:10:03] considered the private owner of these
[00:10:07] forests, do you understand me? So,
[00:10:11] to this operator, we say, "Hey, you came,
[00:10:14] you did everything, you gave everything, you have all the
[00:10:18] technicality and everything, but when you want
[00:10:22] to take something in... and in the wood domain, when you want to take a
[00:10:25] sapele, these are the names of the woods in the forest, sapeli or
[00:10:29] okoumé, when you want to take or when you
[00:10:33] want to take a wengé, take what you want, yes
[00:10:37] but to take a wengé tree, your
[00:10:40] machines, your machines that you use to
[00:10:44] take the wengé, your roads that you make to go
[00:10:47] take the wengé, but that
[00:10:51] wastes, that causes prejudice to
[00:10:54] the French owner because
[00:10:56] you, during your passage,
[00:10:59] you kill many young
[00:11:03] plants that should tomorrow perhaps give
[00:11:06] us more resources so that
[00:11:09] other exploiters
[00:11:13] come, you kill them, you
[00:11:16] do this and all that
[00:11:19] okay, that's called in my book
[00:11:23] so you provoke forest
[00:11:25] roads,
[00:11:27] and when you're done exploiting,
[00:11:29] Mr. forest operator, you're going to leave, right, you leave
[00:11:33] me with this damage, so let's share the
[00:11:37] responsibility, our responsibility
[00:11:41] for this damage that you cause to
[00:11:44] the ecology, yes, at that moment
[00:11:47] comes the temptation to
[00:11:50] want to share something. the responsibility
[00:11:54] first because he is civilly responsible for the
[00:11:58] damage caused while
[00:12:00] the landowner who
[00:12:03] had issued a call for tenders asking people to
[00:12:07] come and exploit his forest to satisfy the needs of
[00:12:11] his current populations, this
[00:12:14] landowner is uh uh
[00:12:17] civilly responsible
[00:12:20] uh towards future generations.
[00:12:24] who will come if we don't make repairs, well you
[00:12:27] haven't answered my question yet, I was saying this, where does the wood money go,
[00:12:31] is it a problem of reform, can't manage,
[00:12:34] is it embezzlement of money, no, wait,
[00:12:38] yet on the wood money, I'm going to first explain to you, I told
[00:12:42] you, I'm talking to you about scientific
[00:12:46] traceability of production
[00:12:49] sharing, that's where the idea of sharing
[00:12:52] responsibility was born, by what
[00:12:56] means, by asking the forest
[00:12:59] operator, so uh you pay
[00:13:03] something for the damage you
[00:13:06] cause, but this something they pay there has
[00:13:10] a name, it's called land
[00:13:13] rent,
[00:13:16] it's when the forest operator will
[00:13:19] have to pay land rent
[00:13:22] to the landowners every year, yes?
[00:13:27] that the country has reached the
[00:13:31] level of production
[00:13:33] sharing, I even have the impression that at the oil level it's
[00:13:36] called oil rent, so it's the
[00:13:40] rent, however,
[00:13:43] until today, for 10 years we haven't been able
[00:13:46] to reach this level, this
[00:13:49] stage for 10 years,
[00:13:52] but laws have just been adopted.
[00:13:56] Laws have just been adopted, we will talk about it
[00:13:58] perhaps,
[00:14:01] 2020, we will talk about it, but you are
[00:14:04] more eager in your question about where the
[00:14:07] wood money goes, but that's the question, that's what the
[00:14:11] populations are asking, but
[00:14:14] then I tell you, facing this
[00:14:17] interpellation, we, the executives of the forest economy, we
[00:14:21] must be indignant, we must seek to answer.
[00:14:25] to this question, so we need to reflect, we need
[00:14:29] a high scientific reflection to
[00:14:32] provide answers to what the populations think, so
[00:14:36] when there is land rent, do you know
[00:14:39] why it's going to be a revolutionary
[00:14:42] answer, because our forest
[00:14:46] exploitation is based on
[00:14:50] forest exploitation in the Congo Basin, but let's talk about
[00:14:54] Congo. It is based on forest
[00:14:57] taxation, which means that when in
[00:14:59] 1946
[00:15:03] it dates back to 1946,
[00:15:06] the French colonist, you weren't born
[00:15:09] yet, you might have heard about it, in this
[00:15:13] country there were what we call the big concessionary
[00:15:16] companies, you learned that in school, oh you learned that in
[00:15:20] school, the big concessionary companies,
[00:15:24] so at the fall of the big concessionary
[00:15:27] companies, if you have time, we'll talk
[00:15:30] about it, why there was a fall, at the fall of the big concessionary
[00:15:34] companies, the French colonist...
[00:15:39] said: for me to gain something from the forests
[00:15:43] of my colonies, yes, I
[00:15:46] implement a forest tax, so the
[00:15:49] economic success of the forest here in the Congo
[00:15:52] Basin, it's about taxes, you pay
[00:15:55] taxes, you pay royalties,
[00:15:58] there you go, those are the transactional fines or the water and
[00:16:02] forest agents, they found you with
[00:16:04] some fake papers, some... also we issue
[00:16:08] fines, all
[00:16:11] forest exploitation until today as I speak
[00:16:14] operates on taxes, transactional
[00:16:17] fines, royalties,
[00:16:20] however, this held
[00:16:24] for a few years, a
[00:16:26] bit,
[00:16:28] for our country, a few years ago,
[00:16:32] but when in
[00:16:33] 1990, in 100...
[00:16:37] 990
[00:16:42] the African Francophone
[00:16:46] states were summoned to La
[00:16:49] Baule to convert
[00:16:51] to
[00:16:55] pluralism,
[00:16:57] did you hear me,
[00:17:03] political pluralism
[00:17:06] otherwise you don't get development
[00:17:09] aid, that was a
[00:17:12] dictate, that,
[00:17:15] it was France, the former French
[00:17:18] metropolis that gave instructions to these
[00:17:22] former colonies of black Africa,
[00:17:26] excuse me, what does this
[00:17:29] speech from 1990 represent for the
[00:17:32] forest governance of Congo, but I'm getting there, madam,
[00:17:35] I'm getting there. When the heads of
[00:17:39] state of black Africa, Francophone, let's say,
[00:17:43] Francophone,
[00:17:47] Baule in '90, when they came back, you may have
[00:17:50] noticed or you weren't born yet, but you heard
[00:17:54] that there were national conferences in all countries, of course
[00:17:57] for the birth of democracy, the famous democracy, the birth of
[00:18:01] democracy, it didn't come from
[00:18:04] us, okay, it was imposed.
[00:18:08] by Mitterrand, that's it, well Mitterrand is the leader,
[00:18:11] but it's France, the
[00:18:13] metropolis, but because
[00:18:16] uh, after the fall of the Berlin Wall,
[00:18:20] of the Berlin Wall, yes, after the fall
[00:18:22] of the Berlin Wall, there were no more opponents, and
[00:18:26] the United States,
[00:18:28] helped by Europe,
[00:18:31] wanted to impose their hegemony,
[00:18:34] do you see? So
[00:18:37] all countries became uh uh democratic
[00:18:40] states and liberal
[00:18:44] economies, okay, democratic
[00:18:48] state, liberal economy, the peculiarity of our
[00:18:51] country and you need to know this, the peculiarity of our country is
[00:18:55] that our country has an atypical
[00:18:58] management of its forest,
[00:19:02] I said it has an atypical management of its forest, what does that mean?
[00:19:06] Our country in the concert of Central
[00:19:09] Africa, so of the Congo Basin here, is the
[00:19:13] only country to have experimented with the capitalist
[00:19:15] management of natural resources and the Marxist
[00:19:19] management of natural resources,
[00:19:23] ah well I just
[00:19:26] I just all that, that's good, I would like us to establish the link as you say Denis
[00:19:30] Sasungesos two points from the dictate of La Baule to the conception and
[00:19:35] represents what here? But Denis
[00:19:38] Sasungeso, I just told you, yes unless
[00:19:42] you bring me contrary elements that I don't
[00:19:46] have, he's the only
[00:19:49] one here, in Central
[00:19:52] Africa, to have thought of
[00:19:55] introducing production sharing agreements in a forest
[00:19:58] environment. Before him, I've never heard anyone
[00:20:01] else. In the 18th century,
[00:20:04] Ricardo, a great English
[00:20:07] economist, introduced land
[00:20:10] rent in the 18th century,
[00:20:13] okay, in the 19th
[00:20:16] century, England passed with Ricardo, still
[00:20:20] yes
[00:20:22] uh
[00:20:25] Ricardo founded English political
[00:20:28] economy, yes, so it's no longer
[00:20:32] land rent, hm hm, and when I talk about land
[00:20:35] rent and when I talk
[00:20:38] about concessionary companies that worked here before
[00:20:41] 1946,
[00:20:45] you are young
[00:20:48] in age. but you are
[00:20:52] in relation to your culture and
[00:20:55] everything, you know, we have
[00:20:58] customs, we have
[00:21:00] customs, when I go home to
[00:21:04] my village, when a great hunter
[00:21:08] kills a large game in the forest,
[00:21:11] when he arrives, he sets aside a
[00:21:15] portion for the village chief, so you say the village chief, in
[00:21:19] fact it's not for the... village chief, yes it's for the owner of the forest, oh the
[00:21:22] landowner, okay, and his
[00:21:25] clan, okay, it's for the
[00:21:28] landowner and his clan, you're talking about the village
[00:21:31] chief because when the PCT
[00:21:35] arrived and the PCT
[00:21:38] revolutionized the villages were already
[00:21:41] led by the committees uh of the village,
[00:21:45] village committees, up to creating the village chiefs,
[00:21:49] but okay, was the village
[00:21:51] chief, landowner, okay,
[00:21:54] so that's what existed
[00:21:58] here, but with the advent of
[00:22:01] Marxism, the land and all the resources
[00:22:05] of the soil and subsoil, subsoil, yes, were
[00:22:09] declared exclusive property of
[00:22:13] okay, exclusive
[00:22:17] property of the state, so there are no more landowners,
[00:22:20] do you see? Yes, no more landowners,
[00:22:23] and it operated like that from 69
[00:22:27] until 2000, hm hm, as far as the
[00:22:31] sector is concerned, it operated like that uh from
[00:22:34] 74 because the forest law, the revolutionary
[00:22:37] law, the law of revolutionaries
[00:22:39] in the forest sector came in
[00:22:43] 74, and until 2000
[00:22:46] the forest is the property of
[00:22:49] the state
[00:22:52] roam that can leave here, go to Gabon, come back, go to
[00:22:55] Central Africa, it's the property of
[00:22:59] the state tree is cut
[00:23:03] behind your house, it's the property of
[00:23:07] that's Marxist
[00:23:11] property, hm, the
[00:23:14] Marxist land, it's Marxist land,
[00:23:17] hmm, but
[00:23:21] with La Baule, with the
[00:23:25] transition of one-party states
[00:23:29] to multipartyism, the Marxist land has already
[00:23:33] fallen,
[00:23:34] it can no longer
[00:23:37] give you effects, so the forest taxation that
[00:23:40] began in 1946 and that
[00:23:44] the Marxists re-enacted without
[00:23:47] modification, can no longer boost the
[00:23:51] GDP, can no longer boost the GDP, the
[00:23:55] sector is stagnant, it no longer
[00:23:59] functions, do you see, the sector is
[00:24:02] stagnant, it no longer functions,
[00:24:05] so
[00:24:08] when Denis Sasungeso launches production
[00:24:12] sharing agreements in 2016, in 2016, 10 years later there
[00:24:15] are none, I am a forest economy
[00:24:18] executive, I say but... what's happening?
[00:24:22] but however so
[00:24:24] I told you I decided to provide scientific traceability,
[00:24:28] Mr. Andelé, whose fault is it if it's not applied? Whose
[00:24:31] fault is it? Yes, uh
[00:24:34] Mr. journalist, I answer before you, yes, as
[00:24:37] a writer, yes, that is to say, the
[00:24:40] person who masturbated his
[00:24:44] knowledge and who produced a book, yes, I didn't say in my
[00:24:48] book that a woman belongs to someone, I don't know,
[00:24:52] but I just know that
[00:24:54] uh, I just know that the
[00:24:58] Marxist conception, what I call in my book,
[00:25:01] the hegemony of Marxist theories, well, in a simple way, all
[00:25:04] that, what does that mean in a simple way, all that, Marxist, yes, we understand well, intellectuals
[00:25:08] understand, but the common people, what does that mean in a simple way, but yes,
[00:25:12] Mr. journalist, yes, you cannot
[00:25:15] practice forest exploitation
[00:25:18] in the forest, yes, without
[00:25:21] theory, yes, you were told that theory
[00:25:24] illuminates practice, yes you cannot,
[00:25:27] so each type
[00:25:30] of exploitation carried out in the forest must
[00:25:33] be preceded by a
[00:25:35] theory,
[00:25:38] when uh we leave La Baule, we say
[00:25:42] multi-partyism, we organize elections every 5 years, every 7
[00:25:46] years, every this, have you ever seen what we organize for forests?
[00:25:51] No, the forests, the forest executives, we
[00:25:55] wait for Europe to decide, oh
[00:25:58] no, there are the sustainable development goals, oh no,
[00:26:02] period. But we don't think
[00:26:05] because the way forests are
[00:26:09] treated is no longer what we
[00:26:11] treated when it was not multi-partyism, there was
[00:26:15] even when this national conference movement arrived,
[00:26:18] there were even in some places, I describe it in my book
[00:26:22] where people for example
[00:26:25] to create a park,
[00:26:28] it sometimes
[00:26:31] happened that
[00:26:34] the general public, displaced populations to
[00:26:38] say here is the park, but when democracy arrived,
[00:26:42] there were uh peaks,
[00:26:44] people went to
[00:26:48] claim these lands, so we
[00:26:51] must return to land ownership,
[00:26:54] that's it, Mr. Endilé, why in your work do
[00:26:58] you qualify certain contracts as monstrous contracts?
[00:27:01] it's in the law, it's a contract or
[00:27:05] not
[00:27:07] the initiative of the decision that the
[00:27:09] minister of water and forests
[00:27:12] forests,
[00:27:15] okay, he has the initiative of the
[00:27:18] decision, he can say "Mr.
[00:27:22] Kiba, tomorrow you will go and make the
[00:27:25] production sharing contracts" or
[00:27:27] not,
[00:27:30] or and this partnership contract has no... duration is
[00:27:33] limited, it is unlimited,
[00:27:36] okay, it is unlimited, and this
[00:27:39] production sharing contract, everything I say there, it's in the law
[00:27:42] has the capacity,
[00:27:46] has the capacity to substitute itself for all other contracts in the
[00:27:50] forest,
[00:27:53] are you listening to me, all other contracts in the forest,
[00:27:56] so if the minister decides that well, uh
[00:27:59] Intel, well, the his contract, we put that in
[00:28:03] a partnership contract, we put this, we do this, it's the minister
[00:28:07] who decides, it's the minister who decides
[00:28:09] alone,
[00:28:11] you see the tendency of this relay race, it's to go back to
[00:28:15] mono,
[00:28:18] it's to go back to one-sided management, and there
[00:28:21] it's the minister who decides, the other contracts, the file goes to the
[00:28:25] council of ministers, but on this partnership
[00:28:29] contract, it doesn't go to the council of ministers, be careful. It's the minister
[00:28:33] who decides, he's the one who has the initiative, he's the one who
[00:28:35] decides, but this contract is unlimited,
[00:28:39] I don't know if you perceive it, it's
[00:28:41] unlimited,
[00:28:45] well then what kind of minister is this who knows that the law
[00:28:48] asked him to manage unlimited partnership
[00:28:51] contracts and that he will go to production sharing
[00:28:54] contracts, nobody, so
[00:28:57] this contract arrives according to me like a
[00:29:01] monster. In the relay
[00:29:04] race, uh in forest
[00:29:06] exploitation, it's a contract that was created
[00:29:10] to prevent reaching production
[00:29:13] sharing contracts, and why is the production
[00:29:17] sharing contract important for you for forest
[00:29:20] management, but I said,
[00:29:24] I said uh you might
[00:29:26] someday bring me contraddictors,
[00:29:30] maybe, I said that this... book
[00:29:33] gives a traceability,
[00:29:36] that is to say that we take in the
[00:29:39] world, had we already experienced the forest
[00:29:42] royalty? The production contract is
[00:29:46] the forest royalty, in
[00:29:49] England yes, in the 18th century,
[00:29:52] Ricardo instituted the land
[00:29:55] rent, so the forest royalty is called the
[00:29:59] land rent, since history... is
[00:30:03] history, since history is
[00:30:07] history, it's called the land rent, that is to say
[00:30:11] that uh those who own the forests
[00:30:13] make work, you
[00:30:16] have a forest area, it belongs to you, you
[00:30:20] are a landowner, you bring in the
[00:30:24] capitalists who come to develop your forest,
[00:30:27] beyond the taxes and so on that they pay to
[00:30:30] the state, they pay you...
[00:30:33] the land rent and that's the production
[00:30:36] sharing, President Sasou did not
[00:30:40] talk about the land rent, he talks about production
[00:30:44] sharing, but which means the land
[00:30:47] rent when the forest intelligence
[00:30:50] sits down, looks and but what does he mean,
[00:30:54] he he encounters in history and in my
[00:30:57] and in my book I gave indications.