TELESUR — broadcast
20260806 080000 UTC
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[00:00:09] discussion, this debate with
[00:00:31] return to this project of contact with
[00:00:50] The decision by the U.S. Consulate in Sao Paulo
[00:00:53] to invite anti-Lula influencers
[00:00:56] great risk, the to a suspicious meeting about freedom of expression raises the temperature of the situation.
[00:01:10] talent of our athletes in search of The U.S. government has already implemented a tariff increase
[00:01:13] completely outside the standards of the World Trade
[00:01:17] Organization, therefore, politicized tariffs against
[00:01:20] Brazil. Furthermore, the White House sent two high-ranking
[00:01:24] officials here to inspect the electronic voting machines, but their
[00:01:28] entry was vetoed by the Brazilian government, claiming the
[00:01:32] defense of its sovereignty. As is publicly known, Donald
[00:01:36] Trump defends the release of Jair
[00:01:39] Bolsonaro, the jailed former
[00:01:42] president, for attempted coup,
[00:01:44] in which it was planned to assassinate Lula, and Marco Rubio
[00:01:48] has already declared that
[00:01:52] Brazil,
[00:01:55] a founding country of BRICS, is not a
[00:01:57] friend.
[00:02:11] to carry out this mission of
[00:02:13] achieving Latin American integration through
[00:02:16] information. This is the function of
[00:02:18] Telesur
[00:02:21] since it was created by Commander Hugo Chávez and Commander
[00:02:24] Fidel Castro. Here we are, following this
[00:02:28] same mission.
[00:03:03] There was already a project there to
[00:03:09] issues and begin to
[00:03:30] also to ensure the continuity of a
[00:03:32] process that can keep
[00:03:35] Brazil in line with defending Mercosur, defending
[00:03:39] BRICS, defending Latin American integration, as
[00:03:43] is the discourse of President Lula. Our
[00:03:46] guest today has a lot of experience in this area,
[00:03:49] first because she is an internationalist
[00:03:51] militant dedicated to this
[00:03:54] cause,
[00:03:57] also for being a representative, coordinator.
[00:04:05] conquest of this debate, from
[00:04:19] come from nothing and recover
[00:04:24] only be built from
[00:04:32] to make justice happen with her own
[00:04:35] feet, with her hands, with the laws, with the
[00:04:38] idea, with intelligence, with her head. Thank you
[00:04:42] very much, Dr. Tania Mandarino, for being here on Latitud Brasil with
[00:04:45] us. Good evening, Beto, good evening
[00:04:49] everyone. I
[00:04:52] am the one who thanks you for this honorable
[00:04:56] pleasure for us to be here representing the collective of lawyers
[00:05:00] for democracy on Telesur, which is
[00:05:03] the apple of your eye, I know.
[00:05:06] So I feel very honored, a joy, thank you for inviting
[00:05:10] me, you know that... You know that the world is increasingly
[00:05:14] dangerous and American interventionism
[00:05:17] is expanding more and more every day. In the
[00:05:21] first semester alone, there was the kidnapping of the constitutional
[00:05:24] president Nicolás Maduro and there was the
[00:05:27] assassination of the Iranian leader,
[00:05:31] Alijamenei, that is,
[00:05:35] there is a declared
[00:05:36] war situation.
[00:05:43] does not hide the desire to defeat Lula, he has already said it several
[00:05:47] times,
[00:05:50] because he does not want Brazil's rapprochement with China, with BRICS,
[00:05:53] and he does not want there to be areas of independence
[00:05:56] in Latin America regarding American
[00:06:00] dictates. How do you see the situation we are
[00:06:04] experiencing, a very
[00:06:09] moment is one of great danger.
[00:06:12] Brazil has a fundamental role in Latin America, even due to its size,
[00:06:16] and of course it will be targeted and there will be
[00:06:19] some dispute. Today I see Brazil in dispute by American
[00:06:23] imperialism, it was tried
[00:06:26] here a lot. We
[00:06:29] know that when Lula won his third
[00:06:32] term, there was an intention from the United
[00:06:36] States to wage a war against Venezuela.
[00:06:40] There was this intention a priori,
[00:06:43] today it seems that the situation is a little
[00:06:47] bit directed at
[00:06:47] Argentina,
[00:06:51] there is the imperialist, neo-fascist agent, who is Javier
[00:06:54] Milley,
[00:06:57] acting with provocations at the service of this destabilization
[00:07:00] project, because I believe, Beto, that the country,
[00:07:04] Brazil, is in dispute, and for
[00:07:06] that reason we are in a moment of great
[00:07:08] danger.
[00:07:42] conservative and
[00:07:44] interferences,
[00:07:46] as was denounced by the former president, now
[00:07:49] former president, as was denounced by Gustavo Petro, there
[00:07:53] were also in Peru, Bolivia, Argentina,
[00:07:57] Ecuador, that is,
[00:08:00] there were external interferences in all these
[00:08:03] countries.
[00:08:54] The global project today is a project that points to fascism, to
[00:08:58] Nazism, the world is moving in this direction and
[00:09:02] it would be a great naivety on our part to imagine that
[00:09:05] we, because we are giants, would be sleeping in
[00:09:09] splendid gods without intervention. So,
[00:09:12] I agree with you when you say that, despite the
[00:09:15] shivers, it is necessary to face the issue
[00:09:18] head-on in order to confront it collectively,
[00:09:22] in order to confront it as a nation and
[00:09:25] preferably with what we have of Latin America resisting and
[00:09:28] that is not
[00:09:29] little.
[00:09:33] So, I believe that we have this Cambridge Analytica
[00:09:36] model, which is now outdated, but
[00:09:40] which was already used in Brazil.
[00:09:46] It is important to say it, we cannot forget it, it led a fascist to the presidency of the republic,
[00:09:49] it established a movement that today is giving,
[00:09:52] including
[00:09:55] a motive for Trump's provocations through Javier
[00:09:58] Miley,
[00:10:00] when he says that we keep a leader unjustly imprisoned. This happened
[00:10:04] in 2018, it is not new. They need to understand
[00:10:08] this, that is, they already know it. A great characteristic of fascism is this
[00:10:12] same one: to invert the truth, to make
[00:10:15] this reach people as if it were an absolute truth,
[00:10:19] then before, in
[00:10:22] 2018.
[00:10:33] but it was more veiled, the matter was more
[00:10:36] veiled,
[00:10:38] so I believe that ultraconservatism advanced,
[00:10:42] the imperialist project, the
[00:10:44] advance of fascism advanced a lot, you
[00:10:48] yourself begin by talking about two very serious events, only in
[00:10:51] Venezuela, on January 3rd and the 24th, excuse
[00:10:55] me. And then, and
[00:10:58] then today I have an earthquake in my head, this event I imagine would have been natural, I'm not going to enter this
[00:11:02] scope, the death of Khamenei, the
[00:11:06] attacks on
[00:11:07] Iran,
[00:11:10] but now it's completely blatant, the matter is no
[00:11:14] longer so veiled,
[00:11:17] done in a school in England, this is
[00:11:20] stated, this is given, this is assumed, even with meetings
[00:11:24] with influencers.
[00:11:25] Perfect,
[00:11:28] we are not naive,
[00:11:31] to the point of imagining that the rudeness that the president of Argentina, Javier
[00:11:34] Miley, uttered here, here in Brazil, against
[00:11:38] Lula, are merely due to his low
[00:11:41] moral stature.
[00:11:45] We understand that he is a puppet,
[00:11:49] a lackey of imperialism, because it always
[00:11:51] historically
[00:11:55] intended to pit Brazil and
[00:11:56] Argentina
[00:11:59] against each other, as they are two very industrialized economies, to prevent them
[00:12:02] from having competitive
[00:12:03] power
[00:12:07] and to impose the colonial norms of the United States on these two great
[00:12:11] nations, so that we would not
[00:12:13] collaborate,
[00:12:17] so that we would not have the power of cooperation with
[00:12:19] Argentina, because this could generate a very
[00:12:23] important vision of integration. independence and
[00:12:26] sovereignty,
[00:12:29] but Miley came,
[00:12:30] insisted,
[00:12:33] and now Donald Trump renews the memorandum, in which he says
[00:12:36] that Bolsonaro is a persecuted one, that is, there is a load that is being
[00:12:40] carried, first Miley came and two officials were sent, the
[00:12:44] Lula government prohibited these officials because it was
[00:12:47] interference, evidently,
[00:12:50] but the United States consulate called a meeting
[00:12:53] clearly.
[00:13:05] an advance of the project, but we cannot forget, Beto, that this project that started much
[00:13:08] earlier, much earlier, years
[00:13:10] earlier,
[00:13:15] but its explosion itself can already be seen on January
[00:13:18] 8th, when Lula won the elections for the
[00:13:22] third term.
[00:13:28] oppose this electoral
[00:13:30] truth,
[00:13:33] they tried in every way to make him not take office. We
[00:13:36] already have this history, it is not a pleasant
[00:13:39] history, even for Brazil, many
[00:13:43] parameters escape to have that break-break,
[00:13:47] break the esplanade, break the ministries, the Supreme
[00:13:50] Federal Court itself.
[00:13:54] we need to
[00:15:08] know
[00:15:11] how to face this challenge. That is the
[00:15:14] reason for this question, Beto. Perhaps
[00:15:17] Karl Marx knew it, and we can
[00:15:20] learn a little from him. This
[00:15:23] is the topic for the second block of our conversation here on the Latitud
[00:15:27] Brasil program with Dr. Tania
[00:15:29] Mandarino
[00:15:33] from the Collective of Women and Men Lawyers for Democracy. We will
[00:15:36] be right back.
[00:16:13] More than 6,000 athletes from
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[00:18:18] Latitud Brasil is back, today
[00:18:21] discussing the threats that hover over
[00:18:23] Brazil.
[00:18:27] Several Latin American countries had elections with external
[00:18:30] interference,
[00:18:31] Brazil
[00:18:34] will have general presidential elections in October.
[00:19:07] What would be the antidote to external interference?
[00:19:11] Mobilize the people, right?
[00:19:14] But mobilizing the people in defense of a program of social transformations,
[00:19:17] of more sovereignty, because sovereignty is not
[00:19:20] abstract. Sovereignty is to recover, for
[00:19:24] example, privatized state companies.
[00:19:27] Sovereignty is to defend our mineral wealth under the control of rare
[00:19:31] earths, for example, and yet we still
[00:19:35] have many privileges for the rentier sector.
[00:19:39] How, then,
[00:19:42] to balance all this to strengthen the democratic
[00:19:45] progressive candidacy of President
[00:19:48] Lula.
[00:19:50] This is the great challenge for Brazil as a nation, a sovereign
[00:19:54] Brazil. In fact, it is a challenge that
[00:19:58] needs to be built and can
[00:20:02] popular
[00:20:03] organization.
[00:20:07] For a long time, I believe at least that we are demobilized
[00:20:11] in the face of all these attacks. Everything that
[00:20:14] happens around us in Latin America should have already
[00:20:18] mobilized us,
[00:20:21] but this confrontation can only be done collectively,
[00:20:24] and it plays a very important role today
[00:20:27] for political, popular, social
[00:20:31] leaders,
[00:20:32] Brazilians.
[00:20:35] They need to be convened to organize the masses, which
[00:20:39] seems a little distant today, but
[00:20:42] tomorrow, who knows, right,
[00:20:44] Beto?
[00:20:49] For example.
[00:20:53] that is resisting military aggressions, it is being
[00:20:57] bombed, but it has internal unity, it has sovereign
[00:21:00] technological development, there is technological
[00:21:03] independence, there is the participation of the masses,
[00:21:07] there is even an armed people as well, even so it is being
[00:21:11] attacked. Brazil should
[00:21:13] see that the world is increasingly
[00:21:16] dangerous.
[00:21:20] It should not think that it can remain demobilized, it is not
[00:21:23] so.
[00:21:26] Yes, this is a more elemental step, you also cite other factors that will
[00:21:29] take some time to build,
[00:21:32] which is the recovery of our technological autonomy or creation,
[00:21:36] because I believe that we never really had technological
[00:21:39] autonomy, we were in Brazil within this whole
[00:21:42] project, it is important
[00:21:44] to remember
[00:21:47] the operation.
[00:21:51] the operation that came precisely with an imperialist project with many
[00:21:54] soldiers, judges, prosecutors, ministers, many
[00:21:58] soldiers at the service of this imperialist
[00:22:00] project, to cause a rupture in the
[00:22:03] economy,
[00:22:07] to stagnate our possibilities of starting to grow in technological
[00:22:11] autonomy, and that was a project that devastated our
[00:22:15] land, we already have devastated land, it's not what
[00:22:18] will happen now.
[00:22:20] This is a hybrid war, this is also a cognitive
[00:22:24] war that is now being built, they have this aspect of not
[00:22:28] leaving,
[00:22:30] in these cases, bombs, effects of
[00:22:32] gunpowder, we think that no, everything is
[00:22:36] fine, there is still no war, but there is, the war is already happening and
[00:22:40] it's not new, we are broken, ah, but the
[00:22:43] economy is growing, it's growing a lot, President
[00:22:47] Lula has done a fascinating job with his team, despite specific
[00:22:51] criticisms that we may have, but he is leading
[00:22:54] Brazil, but for how long, that is the
[00:22:57] question, because the land was already
[00:23:00] devastated,
[00:23:03] his imprisonment for 580 days here in the city where I live, in
[00:23:07] Curitiba, in southern
[00:23:08] Brazil,
[00:23:12] and it was also, I believe, a popular conquest of
[00:23:16] resistance. We have emerged from this state of affairs
[00:23:20] in some way.
[00:23:22] The liberation of President Lula was a popular response of
[00:23:25] 580 days of a vigil that I believe never
[00:23:29] happened on the planet. This vigil could go to Guinness,
[00:23:33] because we presented ourselves. Lula was a popular
[00:23:36] testimony to this. All of Brazil came here and
[00:23:39] Lula, returning to the presidency of the Republic, is now running for his
[00:23:43] fourth term. It's no small feat.
[00:23:47] It is also necessary that we tell ourselves how much can.
[00:23:51] how much popular organization makes itself felt
[00:23:54] there. We will have to recover these other
[00:23:59] rebuild a nation that was broken by an imperialist
[00:24:02] project. It is clear that progressive
[00:24:04] forces
[00:24:10] are very certain of the importance of maintaining this perspective of
[00:24:14] electing President Lula again.
[00:24:17] Although that does not mean forgetting, for
[00:24:21] example, that agrarian reform is stalled,
[00:24:24] that revenues are up, de-industrializing the country,
[00:24:28] contrary to the discourse of the government itself,
[00:24:31] and that the media remains highly
[00:24:34] concentrated in the hands of the enemies of progressive
[00:24:37] forces, favoring
[00:24:40] those who are vassals of the American
[00:24:43] president. These contradictions at this
[00:24:46] moment should be well debated, don't you think?
[00:24:51] From this debate, from the
[00:24:55] the awareness regarding these contradictions, we can
[00:24:58] begin to build resistance. Only from
[00:25:02] this, in my evaluation, Beto, there is no other
[00:25:05] way. We cannot now
[00:25:09] what was devastated.
[00:25:11] So these contradictions need to be
[00:25:14] discussed, popularly brought up,
[00:25:18] it's not just to discuss.
[00:25:26] One of the things I admire most, Beto, in Venezuela is the work done with the
[00:25:30] mapping in the streets
[00:25:34] and the visit to the inhabitants of the
[00:25:35] population.
[00:25:38] The PES, for example, is a party that does not abandon
[00:25:41] the people, does not betray the people, regardless of what
[00:25:45] is happening, of factors of correlation of external
[00:25:48] interference forces. The PSU is there, still doing
[00:25:52] its work. I would like my party, which is the
[00:25:55] PT, the Workers' Party, the same party
[00:25:58] as President Lula, to also grow.
[00:26:02] helping to build this as well,
[00:26:05] but also growing with more direction in this
[00:26:08] sense, to return to this
[00:26:12] the people who cannot be abandoned at this
[00:26:14] moment.
[00:26:19] No matter what their state of mind is, many people are already manipulated by this
[00:26:23] issue of bigtech, of the analytics project that began
[00:26:26] and everything. It doesn't matter, the people are never to blame in my
[00:26:29] evaluation. We need to
[00:26:33] the people to be able to win, otherwise it won't
[00:26:36] happen. It's a way to defend national
[00:26:39] sovereignty,
[00:26:42] to defend the continuity of a very important project in Latin America for
[00:26:45] Brazil, to continue defending Latin
[00:26:49] American integration, the presence of BRICS, the
[00:26:52] alliance with China, with Russia and with other BRICS
[00:26:56] countries, and also the return of UNASUR that needs to be retaken,
[00:27:00] UNASUR, this is a proposal that President Lula does not
[00:27:03] abandon. Thank you very much, Dr. Tania
[00:27:07] Mandarino
[00:27:09] from the Collective of Lawyers for Democracy. For
[00:27:13] your presence here at Latitud Brasil. Thank you very much, thank
[00:27:16] you very much. I thank you,
[00:27:19] thank you and we will continue until victory, because we are going to
[00:27:22] win. Latin America is going to win, the Global South is going to
[00:27:26] win. And congratulations on the solidarity
[00:27:29] work that the collective did in relation.
[00:27:43] Thank you very much, next week we will be back to
[00:27:47] try to understand even more
[00:27:49] deeply,
[00:27:52] this enigmatic and giant country, as you say,
[00:27:55] Brazil. See you next time,
[00:27:57] bye.
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