TELESUR — broadcast
20261011 073000 UTC
357 transcript segments
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[00:00:13] that the people agreed with
[00:00:23] we always aim with
[00:00:35] In the forests of Africa, Asia, and Latin America, communities like
[00:00:38] this one are accustomed to their territory being threatened by
[00:00:42] mining companies, illegal loggers, and land
[00:00:45] grabbers. But now, in addition to these threats,
[00:00:49] they have to face a new type of greed, that of the air
[00:00:53] miners, the representatives of the carbon
[00:00:56] market.
[00:01:08] We have suffered a lot of harassment
[00:01:12] from companies that want to buy carbon from
[00:01:16] our communities,
[00:01:19] they came there telling us where we as
[00:01:22] community members can take and sell
[00:01:25] what are carbon credits, I
[00:01:27] the most outstanding content on didn't know what REDD is, what carbon
[00:01:30] credits are, just like my people,
[00:01:34] no, when it was when it was logging, we saw the raft passing with
[00:01:37] the wooden logs and we saw how all our wealth went to
[00:01:41] another region, today no, today it is a carbon
[00:01:45] market, where nothing is seen, that is, what is being
[00:01:48] sold, that nothing is seen, that nothing is touched to
[00:01:51] feel, and what are carbon credit
[00:01:55] bonds, who buys them, who issues them, who solves
[00:01:59] what is it?
[00:02:01] What kind of market is this, that the forest has been here for years, the people of
[00:02:05] the communities have protected it for years and now a project
[00:02:09] meet in the communities in comes that will save that forest, and the
[00:02:12] company entering there, offering millions so that the communities
[00:02:16] could do nothing, just stay in their hammock. A friend of mine
[00:02:20] says that when money is involved, be suspicious,
[00:02:24] and that's what happened to me too, I started to
[00:02:26] distrust. So, these are the... pirates
[00:02:30] who try to subdue indigenous
[00:02:34] peoples through
[00:02:36] lies
[00:02:38] so that they receive the community's
[00:02:41] approval through a
[00:02:44] contract between the company and the community so that the
[00:02:48] company, on behalf of the community, can negotiate
[00:02:51] carbon
[00:02:56] to articulate themselves in this complex reality.
[00:03:08] This dialogue is very important for us who
[00:03:11] seek a lot of information through
[00:03:14] other countries from leaders who came
[00:03:17] here
[00:03:20] so that we understand this carbon credit,
[00:03:25] Amazon faces the worst drought in because many people who have already had experiences with carbon credits
[00:03:27] problems.
[00:03:31] in reality they reduce the problem of So this is what we have to
[00:03:35] debate
[00:03:39] the problem is much deeper and has to do with among ourselves to debate against REDD,
[00:03:43] brothers, today is a historic day for
[00:03:47] us and if we are here it is for the vindication of
[00:03:50] our rights as indigenous peoples and carbon
[00:03:54] businesses are generating divisions
[00:03:57] in the communities
[00:03:59] industry, the oil industry, in indigenous families, they spoke
[00:04:02] about the different strategies used by companies,
[00:04:05] NGOs and governments to approach communities and
[00:04:09] sell carbon credits from their territories.
[00:04:13] They were very strategic because they used an indigenous
[00:04:16] person, they used her to reach
[00:04:19] us, but they didn't really do a prior consultation in the
[00:04:23] reservation but rather took her to the city
[00:04:27] eh, they paid for hotels, food.
[00:04:30] they treated her very well to be able to enter the
[00:04:33] process,
[00:04:41] we are also here to contribute, to bring
[00:04:44] some of our experiences, it was an agreement they made in an
[00:04:48] isolated way, they called only some leaders,
[00:04:52] some people, and with that they made it seem that they had the
[00:04:56] support of the whole town to have access to the credits.
[00:05:08] guests in
[00:05:11] headline of the moment or with is verifying the presence of the inhabitants who were at that
[00:05:15] meeting and after some time I was able to discover through
[00:05:19] a project document that that signature
[00:05:22] they asked for served to prove
[00:05:26] the project and they weren't, they didn't even know
[00:05:29] that it would be used to say that they agreed with the project, when
[00:05:33] I discovered this, the project already had many carbon credits that they had
[00:05:37] already sold, two people visited
[00:05:40] me stating that it was...
[00:05:42] to talk to the organization of my territory, eh, they
[00:05:46] wanted to advance a project, eh with
[00:05:50] the children and with the elderly and they brought
[00:05:53] eh details, gifts, they invited
[00:05:57] to a meeting in the territory, when the women went
[00:06:01] eh they realized that they were taking out a
[00:06:04] drone, why that drone, what is it for, that no, that
[00:06:08] this is to get to know more in depth, it caught our attention a lot and generated
[00:06:12] concern for us, we went to the depth of that and we
[00:06:16] found that they already had an established project in our
[00:06:19] territory for carbon credit business, of which
[00:06:22] we had no
[00:06:23] knowledge.
[00:06:27] We started to notice many people from outside that we perceived were not
[00:06:31] from that region, they were not from that territory
[00:06:35] and we started to investigate to understand what those people
[00:06:39] were doing there, so we discovered that there was a project
[00:06:43] within the territory, after 10 years we discovered it and
[00:06:46] we managed to initiate a process against Verra who
[00:06:50] certified that REDD project in the territory of
[00:06:53] the communities, so the project was
[00:06:57] slowed down, not stopped, it was slowed down and is in
[00:07:00] court,
[00:07:05] eh, there was no knowledge of what carbon markets consist of,
[00:07:09] eh, however, a contract signed without consultation, without the
[00:07:13] free and informed consent of the communities and upon finding that
[00:07:16] novelty and that signed contract, we proceeded to
[00:07:21] assemblies and it was concluded among all our communities
[00:07:25] that this contract was not welcome in the
[00:07:28] territories since the contract has a duration of
[00:07:32] 30 years extendable to 100 years, the contract had
[00:07:36] clauses that were not in accordance with the
[00:07:39] culture, the nature was not
[00:07:42] in accordance with the context
[00:07:45] of our community and our territory, we
[00:07:49] advanced in some legal and technical
[00:07:52] consultations and the contract was, let's say, suspended
[00:07:55] until the prior consultation process
[00:07:58] is advanced.
[00:08:02] The participants of the meeting also wanted to know what happens in
[00:08:05] communities in other continents, for that they watched
[00:08:08] testimonials recorded especially for them,
[00:08:11] the testimonials show that women suffer the most serious impacts,
[00:08:15] although their voices are rarely
[00:08:17] heard.
[00:08:22] REDD has a huge impact on women,
[00:08:25] especially in our village. The women of
[00:08:28] our village were forbidden from entering the
[00:08:30] forest.
[00:08:32] This meant that women were also forbidden
[00:08:35] from farming. We cannot plant rice because it is
[00:08:38] forbidden to burn forests which is our traditional way
[00:08:42] of cultivation, furthermore, women no longer had
[00:08:46] permission to collect firewood or medicinal plants, this
[00:08:49] also affected men who used to hunt in the
[00:08:53] forest,
[00:08:55] this affected us because we depend heavily on the
[00:08:58] forest.
[00:09:05] I started planting trees for the Ecotrust carbon
[00:09:08] project, I complied with the agreement by planting the trees that
[00:09:12] Ecotrust asked for, in exchange they promised me money that they never
[00:09:16] gave me to be able to take care of my children, since I planted those trees
[00:09:19] I never earned a single dollar with them, but I have children to take care of, to
[00:09:23] feed. It came to a point where I couldn't guarantee them food with
[00:09:27] the planting of those trees.
[00:09:30] So I decided to cut down the trees and plant plantains, as you can see
[00:09:34] in the background. When I cut down the trees and grew food,
[00:09:38] they started to threaten me, calling me by
[00:09:41] phone, in the evening.
[00:10:21] We are not satisfied with the
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[00:13:01] The origin of the carbon market dates back more than 30 years
[00:13:04] ago, but in 2015 these received a great boost with the
[00:13:08] signing of the Paris Agreement within the framework of the United Nations Climate
[00:13:11] Conference.
[00:13:14] I look at this room and I see that the reaction is positive, I do not
[00:13:18] see objections. The Paris climate agreement is
[00:13:22] approved.
[00:13:25] The promoters of these carbon markets present it as the solution to the climate crisis that the
[00:13:29] world is facing, in reality eh they are far from being a
[00:13:32] solution to the current problems, the era of global
[00:13:35] warming has ended and the era of global boiling is
[00:13:39] coming, Africa is the one that has contributed the least to the climate
[00:13:42] crisis, but the one that suffers the worst impacts, droughts right
[00:13:46] now, the
[00:13:50] history, the rivers that cross the
[00:13:52] region,
[00:13:56] the climate crisis to as if there is a lot of carbon dioxide, as if that
[00:14:00] were the problem, but in reality
[00:14:04] the production system, for a solution we must then change that production system.
[00:14:08] So, when talking about carbon, they are talking about CO2, carbon
[00:14:12] dioxide, that is the gas that is generated with the excessive burning of fossil fuels,
[00:14:15] such as oil, such as gas or such as coal, which are used
[00:14:19] mainly in large industries, eh, for example, the aviation
[00:14:24] mining and others, so one of the big deceptions of the carbon
[00:14:28] market is wanting to make us believe that
[00:14:32] eh this carbon dioxide that is emitted in large quantities can be
[00:14:35] compensated by a forest or a plantation in a country very far
[00:14:39] from where they are originally emitted, so for example a
[00:14:42] company in Germany, a large polluter, pretends to compensate that
[00:14:46] pollution by promoting the creation of a
[00:14:49] plantation, the conservation of a forest in a general country.
[00:14:53] and the name they gave to this
[00:14:57] supposed compensation was carbon
[00:15:01] neutrality, that supposed carbon
[00:15:04] neutrality is a lie, because they continue
[00:15:08] to release a lot of carbon into the atmosphere and the forests do not
[00:15:11] have the capacity to absorb that carbon,
[00:15:15] and the carbon credit is the currency with which they buy that
[00:15:18] supposed neutrality, by buying carbon credits, companies
[00:15:22] carry out this fictitious exchange between the... pollution they emit
[00:15:26] and the supposed absorption of this pollution by forests or
[00:15:29] plantations. We call the carbon credit a
[00:15:33] pollution credit because it gives these companies a right to pollute.
[00:15:37] It is no coincidence that among the main buyers of carbon credits are
[00:15:41] large corporations, industries that devastate and emit
[00:15:44] a lot of pollution, such as oil companies, aviation
[00:15:48] companies, technology companies and mining
[00:15:50] companies. What companies skillfully do is
[00:15:54] use these carbon projects to create advertising
[00:15:58] that diverts attention from the impacts that these companies
[00:16:01] cause.
[00:16:04] Almost anyone can buy carbon credits to help
[00:16:08] offset their carbon footprint, one of the most
[00:16:11] advanced gasolines in the world and which is now carbon
[00:16:14] neutral,
[00:16:17] among the main carbon projects are REDD
[00:16:21] projects, which means reduction of carbon emissions
[00:16:25] from deforestation and forest degradation. What
[00:16:28] these projects do is invent a story, the story that without
[00:16:32] the carbon project the forest would be destroyed and what
[00:16:36] happens is that in these projects,
[00:16:39] they always have to identify some danger, because if
[00:16:43] there is no danger of deforestation, there is no carbon
[00:16:47] project,
[00:16:49] so they will always have to point out some threat to the
[00:16:53] forest, and in all these carbon
[00:16:57] projects a logging company can appear as a threat or perhaps another
[00:17:00] invader, but they always point to the
[00:17:04] communities as also causing deforestation.
[00:17:11] According to these projects, when a community collects
[00:17:14] firewood or uses fire in a small cultivation area, it would be
[00:17:18] causing destruction and pollution similar to that
[00:17:21] caused by an oil or mining company.
[00:17:25] By identifying communities as responsible for
[00:17:28] deforestation, carbon projects end up imposing
[00:17:32] restrictions on them and prohibiting the use of their own
[00:17:35] territories. Finally. What these
[00:17:38] projects sell is not carbon, what they sell is
[00:17:41] the promise to protect forests, saying that communities do not
[00:17:45] know, cannot protect them by themselves, that
[00:17:49] promise they call a carbon credit. These
[00:17:53] carbon credits are certified by entities such as
[00:17:56] Verra, involved in various scandals and can be
[00:17:59] sold by private companies or by NGOs.
[00:18:03] Governments can also carry out REDD projects in very
[00:18:07] much larger areas that can cover several territories, these are called
[00:18:10] jurisdictional REDD or government REDD,
[00:18:13] but in reality that does not reduce the
[00:18:17] risks or make the projects better for the
[00:18:19] communities.
[00:18:23] The mechanism is perverse, because where there are REDD
[00:18:26] projects, it is not in the places where there is a lot of
[00:18:29] deforestation. Why? Because making
[00:18:32] large monocultures of soy, of oil palm,
[00:18:36] doing mining on a large scale
[00:18:39] is much more lucrative, it brings much more
[00:18:42] money than these carbon projects, so what
[00:18:46] was done was to take these projects to forest areas
[00:18:50] that are not in danger, and
[00:18:52] in those areas there are always
[00:18:54] communities, that's why the territories of many
[00:18:58] communities are in the sights of the carbon market,
[00:19:01] with a racist and colonial logic, this market
[00:19:05] unleashed a new wave of land grabbing in the global
[00:19:11] South, Through this meeting, this
[00:19:14] dialogue, this exchange of experiences, we came to understand that
[00:19:18] we are all going through the same thing, so for us
[00:19:22] it is fundamental to understand that REDD has already harmed several
[00:19:25] territories, communities and people. It is
[00:19:27] alarming for us to know this reality,
[00:19:31] how they are signing contracts with indigenous peoples
[00:19:34] with different variants, so these are very
[00:19:38] contracts where we could easily
[00:19:41] be deceived and be caught in these
[00:19:45] projects and then face the
[00:19:48] effects, the impacts and when it is too late and also
[00:19:52] these contracts would be very long
[00:19:54] term,
[00:19:57] when these projects reach the
[00:19:59] communities,
[00:20:02] they do not recognize our way of
[00:20:04] life, they do not recognize... our way of
[00:20:08] living, they do not recognize our cultures
[00:20:12] or our customs, our traditions, and above
[00:20:15] all our traditional knowledge that has always
[00:20:19] been transmitted from generation to generation, in which
[00:20:23] we use nature as a way of
[00:20:25] subsistence,
[00:20:29] basically it is about eh
[00:20:33] restricting and prohibiting
[00:20:35] touching these territories. that is, touching the
[00:20:39] forests in the way we indigenous peoples
[00:20:43] used to do.
[00:20:47] So it is a project that comes from top to bottom.
[00:20:51] So there are two visions on territory: the vision of the
[00:20:55] community, of us as peoples and traditional
[00:20:58] communities, and the vision of large capitalist
[00:21:02] companies,
[00:21:04] who are in the market wanting to make more profits and continue polluting.
[00:21:22] We are concerned about the plans to promote climate
[00:21:25] capitalism
[00:21:27] as a solution to climate change.
[00:21:31] In our people, in our indigenous knowledge,
[00:21:35] this is wrong, this is perverse, to have a system of
[00:21:38] ownership of life itself, of ownership of the
[00:21:41] air, so we are part of a movement to say
[00:21:45] no.
[00:21:47] Our culture is capo culture. We defend
[00:21:51] nature, in that sense, we do not negotiate
[00:21:54] nature for the market, this
[00:21:58] has to stop, we do not want them to continue using
[00:22:02] our work of caring, protecting,
[00:22:05] defending, so that they continue to have a
[00:22:08] green image before the world, a false green image,
[00:22:12] because here in my territory they clean their image and in other territories
[00:22:16] they are destroying, they are killing, they are dispossessing
[00:22:20] indigenous peoples of their common home, it is a
[00:22:23] hypocrisy worldwide that is not being talked about directly,
[00:22:27] because otherwise this COP would not be in its 29th edition
[00:22:30] that is already reaching its 30th edition, a climate
[00:22:34] solution cannot yet be
[00:22:35] spoken of,
[00:22:39] and that is why we have risen in permanent
[00:22:43] resistance, rejecting these false climate
[00:22:45] solutions
[00:22:48] and accepting these carbon credits
[00:22:52] no, and if we are going to defend our territory, let it be for us, not for them.
[00:23:50] Temperatures rise, rain patterns change, and drought
[00:23:53] advances. This is a reflection of a planet crying for help
[00:30:30] Hello, how are you, I'm Caryali Ramírez, this is. Mundo podcast, the space
[00:30:34] where the voices and views of teleSUR's multiplatform
[00:30:37] podcasts converge. In another voice, Sasi Alejandre tells
[00:30:41] us how after more than a decade of
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[00:30:48] families, the case of the 43 missing students
[00:30:51] from Ayotzinapa remains unsolved. In this
[00:30:55] episode, the lack of answers from the administration
[00:30:59] of Enrique Peña Nieto is analyzed.