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20260806 093000 UTC
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[00:00:00] through the
[00:00:00] of jargon and bring you the news that matters. Money
[00:00:04] a talks
[00:00:05] in on TRT
[00:00:06] World.
[00:00:10] As kid I was very eager, I was very active. I loved to
[00:00:14] dance and I used to love to ride my bike, really
[00:00:19] of good. But those things about me started to change even though I knew
[00:00:23] something was wrong. I never imagined it would be this. The
[00:00:27] lime disease bacteria bariliar is definitely. one
[00:00:30] of the smartest bacteria on the planet, this organism knows how to change
[00:00:33] forms. i came here
[00:00:35] a cuuse wanted to meet the pope, buse i believe
[00:00:37] in a miracle, believe
[00:00:39] in a miracle. there are more cases of lime disease than
[00:00:43] HIV and breast cancer
[00:00:44] combined. storyteller, the
[00:00:48] quiet epidemic on TRT
[00:00:52] of World.
[00:00:57] of
[00:01:02] of
[00:01:08] Divisions
[00:01:08] of within the European Union have been exposed after more than
[00:01:12] 60,000 migrants surged into the Spanish
[00:01:15] enclave filter from Morocco. President
[00:01:18] a of the EU Commission, Ersula Vongelain has called for stronger
[00:01:22] border controls and a unified approach to migration.
[00:01:26] But how does the block move forward amid strained
[00:01:29] of relations and Why did so many people storm the border
[00:01:33] on the same
[00:01:33] day?
[00:01:38] of
[00:01:42] of
[00:01:47] in hello
[00:01:47] in and welcome to roundtable. I'm Ryan
[00:01:51] and Jones. Europe's migration policy is under scrutiny
[00:01:55] after the Moroccan spanish border was overwhelmed last
[00:01:59] week and 10. tens of thousands of migrants swam, scrambled
[00:02:03] and stampeded their way into the Spanish city
[00:02:06] felter. Most
[00:02:07] of the migrants have been returned home, but many are living on the
[00:02:11] streets with no shelter, food nor
[00:02:13] of water. Dozens lost their lives
[00:02:16] of attempting the journey. Well, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez
[00:02:19] has blamed human traffickers for the crisis, whilst
[00:02:23] other European Union states have accused him
[00:02:26] of of a being soft on migrants.
[00:02:32] 'they came in their thousands, some swam
[00:02:35] desperately trying to make it to shore, others rushed the
[00:02:39] border. By the end
[00:02:40] of the day, more than 60,00 migrants had made it into the
[00:02:44] of Spanish enclave of thauta. I i prefer
[00:02:47] to die here than to go my back, to
[00:02:50] of go back step. Fayota is one of two Spanish territories in
[00:02:54] North Africa, and she is a land border with Morocco. To
[00:02:58] get there, people often'. swim from the Moroccan town of Fneidec,
[00:03:02] of which is about 5 km away. For some, it
[00:03:06] was deadly journey, at least
[00:03:08] of 75 people died in the crossing, mostly from
[00:03:11] drowning. With
[00:03:13] a resident population of only 83, the influx
[00:03:17] overwhelmed thealter, and the army was deployed. Prime Minister
[00:03:21] Pedro Sanchez traveled there last week to meet with
[00:03:23] authorities. This was
[00:03:26] violation of Spain's territorial integrity.
[00:03:30] of Saiuta is a Spanish city and what happened yesterday deserves
[00:03:34] our strongest reproach and our firmest
[00:03:37] condemnation.
[00:03:41] far right political parties and protesters have accused
[00:03:44] of the leader of being lacks
[00:03:46] of over border control, while the crisis has exposed divisions
[00:03:50] in Europe over migrant policy. Sanchez has blamed
[00:03:54] human traffickers for spreading rumors about
[00:03:56] a recent Spanish supreme court ruling that migrants are driving by
[00:04:00] sea can not
[00:04:01] of immediately be
[00:04:02] of returned. my friend has called me that the
[00:04:06] border is open, yes, and
[00:04:09] sanchez has criticized some EU countries for what he called
[00:04:13] a selfish response. Italy's prime minister
[00:04:17] Georgia Moloni temporarily suspended the
[00:04:20] of EU's border free Shingin arrangement with Spain
[00:04:22] in a move backed by Finland and Denmark. At an
[00:04:26] EU emergency meeting, 22
[00:04:28] of the blocks 27. member states called for coordinated
[00:04:32] action. most
[00:04:33] of the 60,00 migrants have now returned to Morocco, many
[00:04:37] voluntarily. it's really tough. everyone there
[00:04:41] got stopped and arrested. they don't want to sell groceries to anyone of
[00:04:44] those arriving.
[00:04:46] of spain is
[00:04:47] of now securing thealter's border as the country's top court
[00:04:50] investigates just how this mass
[00:04:53] of crossing of was able to
[00:04:54] of happen. well let's meet
[00:04:58] our guests joining us from in southern Spain is journalist Zoe
[00:05:02] Base in Budapest we have Andreas Laslow and
[00:05:05] Hungarian politician and member
[00:05:07] of the European Parliament, he's part
[00:05:09] of the group Patriots for Europe and here. In the studio we
[00:05:13] have Pablo Calderon Martinez, associate professor in politics
[00:05:17] and international relations at northeastern
[00:05:20] University, London. Now let's start with the sheer
[00:05:24] scale, Pablo of this particular surge:
[00:05:27] 60,000 migrants, I
[00:05:29] mean it's almost an unimaginable number. It's
[00:05:33] huge. Spanish authorities say it was down to
[00:05:36] misinformation which fuels this rush to the
[00:05:40] border. Do we have any clearer op? picture now of
[00:05:43] what actually happened? unfortunately, i think we
[00:05:47] don't have clear picture of what exactly happened, i think it's very interesting to see
[00:05:51] the huge numbers, so you say something unprecedented, we've had this sort of crisis before and this
[00:05:55] sort of issues happening in the enclave before, but this is the the first time it's
[00:05:59] happening such magnitude and such numbers, there's a lot of information, lot of different
[00:06:02] versions going around in spain about what exactly happened and there's
[00:06:05] a lot of information and theories perhaps from the Spanish side, i'll
[00:06:09] be very interested to hear as well and to find out more from the Morock. government, what exactly
[00:06:13] happened from the Moroccan side the border, because it all seems to indicate that
[00:06:17] for whatever reason the Moroccans decided to let this group of migrants
[00:06:21] through, there was some sort of filtration as well, it was mostly
[00:06:24] Moroccans, not people from the rest of Africa, so I'm
[00:06:28] curious to see what happens, we've seen this happen before as political gamemanship from
[00:06:31] Morocco between Spain, so I think we don't have the full picture yet,
[00:06:35] and we don't know what's going on behind the scenes in political terms, uh other than that it
[00:06:39] seems to be an issue of misinformation and the... that came on from the supreme
[00:06:43] court in Spain that was misunderstood or misinformed across Morocco in
[00:06:47] particular that led to the impression that migros could just come to Spain and they were going to be
[00:06:51] allowed into the Shengen area which was completely false as we've seen and most them have
[00:06:55] come back but yeah it seems to be a combination of factors and I'm not sure we have the full picture
[00:06:59] yet no um well let's bring in Zoe because Zoe you
[00:07:02] were reporting from southern Spain as this
[00:07:06] all happened so what were authorities and local
[00:07:09] communities telling you what were they saying as events
[00:07:12] unfolded? well, i think there was just
[00:07:16] a lot of shock, frankly, people
[00:07:19] in the, the residence of thota feel
[00:07:23] somewhat betrayed, i think by the by the spanish
[00:07:27] government, the central government, they they
[00:07:31] complained that basically
[00:07:33] how is it possible that there was no indication
[00:07:35] in
[00:07:37] in the preceeding hours of preceding days that they were going to
[00:07:41] be over 6000. even 7000 people
[00:07:45] arriving on the on their coastline
[00:07:49] and indeed the president of thoter did
[00:07:52] mention that in the day or two preceeding what
[00:07:56] happened there were increasing numbers of
[00:08:00] of people arriving, i think between one and 200, so there
[00:08:04] does seem to have been some indication that something was a
[00:08:08] miss, that things were different from
[00:08:11] usual ' but some have suggested that
[00:08:15] Spanish Police did not take this, perhaps did not take this
[00:08:18] seriously or yeah, did not have the have the full
[00:08:21] information, so I think people have have been shocked, frankly.
[00:08:25] I did want to ask Siri, did it appear to be very much
[00:08:29] a spontaneous rush or or was there any evidence of
[00:08:32] organized criminal smuggling involved from where you were
[00:08:36] when you were reporting? yeah, I mean, I think that's that's very
[00:08:40] difficult to say um that something... was organized some the
[00:08:43] people who were spoken to um said that
[00:08:47] they had been guided by um Moroccan
[00:08:51] authorities
[00:08:53] um but that is according that's on the ground in thot that was according to some journalists
[00:08:57] from the New York Times um I think it's very very hard at the stage to
[00:09:01] ascertain what role criminal organizations played
[00:09:04] although this is something that the Spanish government and the Moroccan government
[00:09:08] have both put forward but the but the actual evidence for that
[00:09:13] is is, we have to wait
[00:09:15] to to confirm those those comments. Pedro sanchez traveled
[00:09:19] to alges just days before this latest
[00:09:23] latest surge into thelter, is this
[00:09:26] timing significant?
[00:09:30] well, it could be, that relationship between Spain,
[00:09:34] Morocco and Algeria is delicate one, it's a delicate triangle,
[00:09:38] diplomatic triangle, but currently there's more
[00:09:41] questions than answers about what were the reasons for
[00:09:45] this unprecedented invasion into Selta.
[00:09:49] There have been previous in previous years such
[00:09:52] incidents, but not at this scale,
[00:09:55] and that is why with the Patriots for Europe group we asked for an extraordinary
[00:09:59] plenary session the European Parliament to go into the
[00:10:02] details, see what's going on. I know that the interior
[00:10:06] ministers the European Union countries are meeting
[00:10:09] an online video conference ' get some of some
[00:10:13] answers of what happened exactly, honestly it's very
[00:10:17] difficult to imagine that the Spanish government or the
[00:10:21] Moroccan government did not know what was going to happen.
[00:10:25] 50, 60, 70,00 people crossing the borders
[00:10:29] illegally a day or two doesn't happen every day, it's not
[00:10:33] something that can go on notice, not something that should go on
[00:10:37] notice, and according to latest information, there are still a
[00:10:40] couple of thousand people left in Sauta,
[00:10:44] this is unacceptable, this is a pressure on the city
[00:10:48] that is unacceptable, they have our full
[00:10:51] solidarity, they have our full support, but we need to find out what
[00:10:55] happened, that's why we are pushing for debate in the European
[00:10:58] Parliament as well as soon as possible. unfortunately, the
[00:11:02] European people's party refused to have this extraordinary
[00:11:06] plenary debate, because they sided with the
[00:11:10] left. Pablos there saying that is unlikely that the Spanish
[00:11:13] government didn't know about this incoming surge, Spain has
[00:11:17] been criticized for reacting too slowly. what's the
[00:11:21] government's response and has it been?
[00:11:25] inadequate, yeah, I think there is some fair criticism there, and I think there's
[00:11:29] been certainly the reaction was deemed slow, and I think it was father
[00:11:33] more of anything of the intelligence services, security services, because there should have
[00:11:36] been some indication, I think at the very least there was a failure of
[00:11:40] cooperation on communication between the Moroccans and the Spanish, and I
[00:11:44] said before, we don't really know why this happened right, so
[00:11:48] there's something more to the story, I'm sure, but something of course
[00:11:51] that at least I'm not priv to, and there will be more to the story, we not.
[00:11:55] clear why the morokans in particular first let these
[00:11:59] migrants go through and get so close to the border because usually is a
[00:12:02] buffer on the Moroccan side the border so what changed what made them let
[00:12:06] them sort of as it were go free uh secondly why they didn't aler the
[00:12:10] Spanish authorities and thirdly why weren't the Spanish authorities in the
[00:12:14] know of this agglomeration of people and this could happen so there's certainly some criticism there
[00:12:18] that could be made uh I think once the situation evolved I
[00:12:22] think the Pedro Sanchez government tried to react quickly. "we saw how the
[00:12:26] situation came back under control more or less relatively quickly and things seem
[00:12:30] to be more or less going back to normal, normal, yes, there's still some uh
[00:12:34] migrants there that are left uh, but it's not something in the numbers that we
[00:12:37] saw, and the majority the migrants went back pretty much immediately as soon as they got
[00:12:41] to to to celta, and Spain has said that Morocco has
[00:12:45] cooperated with returns, how much
[00:12:48] responsibility should Morocco bear in this
[00:12:51] incident? I mean to some extent Morocco has..." "you now the
[00:12:55] responsibility of Morocco is not to protect spanish borders, right? the responsibility to protect spanish
[00:12:59] borders is of Spain, but also this cooperation between the two and the has to be
[00:13:03] cooperation, and this is has been a historically complicated
[00:13:06] relationship that to be fair has been getting better the last few
[00:13:09] years. um, why this happen, I'm not entirely sure, we've
[00:13:13] seen Morocco use the issue of migration as a political tool
[00:13:17] somehow to extract certain positions, and and it's a way of
[00:13:21] adding a little bit of leverage onto the Spanish government, it could..." that this
[00:13:25] was a little bit of a warning shot the Moroccan government
[00:13:29] anticipating perhaps a change of government in Spain and saying, listen, we still
[00:13:33] have this tool at our disposal, so if anything changes in the position
[00:13:36] of Spain visas Morocco or Algeria, we can always
[00:13:40] open, the flood guess as it were, which is going to be problematic for
[00:13:43] Spain, I don't know, the reality is we don't really know, but there's all sorts of different
[00:13:47] versions of what's going on and I'm really trying to figure it out like the rest of
[00:13:51] us, aren't we all? Pablo, Zoey how...
[00:13:55] how just how politically damaging is this proving to be for Pedro
[00:13:58] sanchez? yeah, i think it is putting
[00:14:02] pressure on him definitely. mean amongst the Spanish
[00:14:06] population, obviously those people who were
[00:14:10] already supportive the partido popular, the
[00:14:13] center right party or even the far right vox, this is just you
[00:14:17] know fuel for the fire, um, basically this
[00:14:21] idea that Pedro sanchez's government just don't have control.
[00:14:25] the borders the the country, and it's fair to
[00:14:29] say that people here on the ground in Malager have felt a certain
[00:14:33] amount of shock and concern if you consider that
[00:14:36] thought is a one-hour fairy ride away
[00:14:40] from from the Spanish mainland, so I think that
[00:14:44] has really, fueled those people already
[00:14:48] in opposition to Sanchez, I think also
[00:14:52] we see here Sanchez looking fairly - related within the
[00:14:56] European context,
[00:14:57] and I think that's particularly what he and his government are now complaining about
[00:15:01] at European level, saying that they were offered very, very little
[00:15:05] support, and 22 out of 27 European
[00:15:09] nations basically signed letter that
[00:15:12] suggested that the problem lay with Sanchez and his
[00:15:15] government and his migration policies, so I think
[00:15:19] yeah, I think Sanchez at this point probably is feeling a little bit a little
[00:15:23] bit isolated. talk about the migration debate within Europe.
[00:15:27] Ondras, you've argued that the EU migration
[00:15:31] pact, it creates incentives for illegal
[00:15:34] migration, so what should Europe? be do doing
[00:15:38] differently and in particular looking at Hungary as
[00:15:42] an example of of Europe's or one of Europe's
[00:15:45] tougher borders? well, the government
[00:15:49] federal Sanchez has done the same mistake as the European Union has
[00:15:53] in terms of being very weak on border protection against illegal
[00:15:57] immigration. just to put this into context, this
[00:16:00] crisis, the last couple of months in Spain have
[00:16:03] been about the question of legalizing hundreds of
[00:16:07] thousands in Spain and basically
[00:16:11] granting them regular status, although they entered
[00:16:14] illegally. if then there's another piece of news
[00:16:18] and we've discussed this already that some
[00:16:21] people it was circulating in networks or maybe even in
[00:16:25] media that people who enter seuta
[00:16:28] illegally will be allowed to stay, well that is fueled
[00:16:32] by the months and months
[00:16:35] previously where the... Spanish government has moved
[00:16:39] forward on legalizing hundreds of thousands of illegals, so
[00:16:43] obviously there's a pull factor created by politics,
[00:16:46] created by the socialist government in Spain, and also created with what you
[00:16:50] mentioned, the EU migration pact, because what is the EU migration pact
[00:16:54] about, it's about distributing the burden of
[00:16:57] illegal immigration across Europe to all
[00:17:01] countries and without stopping illegal entry,
[00:17:05] that should be the first priority the European Union. that was the first
[00:17:09] priority of our government in Hungary since the
[00:17:12] 2015 migration crisis and it was
[00:17:15] successful one, you can stop
[00:17:18] illegal immigrants at the borders,
[00:17:22] of course there's a lot of pressure from media,
[00:17:26] there's a lot of pressure from NGOs and
[00:17:28] there was a lot of pressure on Hungary from the European Commission, just to remind the
[00:17:32] viewers, we were find
[00:17:33] one.
[00:17:51] I would like to welcome you all to our ministry, here we are in
[00:17:55] Ankara, hosting a very important
[00:17:57] guest, the Syrian foreign minister, my
[00:18:01] dear counterpart, my dear brother
[00:18:04] and
[00:18:07] my longstanding friends. Assan Shayibani is with us with his
[00:18:10] delegation, we are delighted to be hosting him and his delegation in
[00:18:14] Ankara, welcome to Ankara, Turkia is your second home
[00:18:17] anyway, and as you know in Syria, since the
[00:18:21] revolution, with our brothers and sisters, we have always held talks
[00:18:24] and we have always paid visits to
[00:18:27] Syria, and we have a structuralized working
[00:18:31] group and mechanisms in place, we get together very frequently, we're in
[00:18:35] touch all the time and we are.
[00:18:46] these efforts
[00:18:48] Now all contribute to Syria's stability and the cooperation between our
[00:18:52] two nations are deepening and we are witnessing this
[00:18:56] moment by moment and this is to the advantage of our countries and
[00:19:00] to our region and this gives us great hope for the
[00:19:03] future.
[00:19:07] is something that we welcome and we
[00:19:11] contribute to these to these efforts
[00:19:15] equally, and in the past i have also underscored
[00:19:19] that welfare of Syria and Turkey are intertwined,
[00:19:23] we cannot see them as separate, and we have a
[00:19:26] 900 kilometer border between us, but we also share a
[00:19:30] history, our history and our culture, and we also share
[00:19:34] our future, we want Damascus.
[00:19:37] Aleppo uh to be more prosperous and when
[00:19:41] that happens we will feel that in Istanbul in Gaza antep
[00:19:45] also any incident that takes place in Syria that derail
[00:19:49] Syria's stability would pose a threat for
[00:19:52] Turkey as well with this understanding counter terrorism, defense and
[00:19:56] security are some the cooperation areas where we have
[00:20:00] achieved synchronicity and in Syria the
[00:20:03] integration process is underway and it needs to be maintained without any...
[00:20:07] supposed and organizations
[00:20:13] armed
[00:20:17] should elements be now brought the together all under national structure and this
[00:20:20] would be very important for the stability of Syria and for our
[00:20:24] region, actually it is an obligation. esteemed members the
[00:20:28] press, in line with the needs the new era, we
[00:20:32] are also focusing on our economic ties in order to boost
[00:20:35] our trade volume, are working on
[00:20:39] customs liberalization, we are trying to build capacity at borders
[00:20:42] and also focusing on banking channels and
[00:20:46] also we are trying to make sure that our infrastructures
[00:20:50] are compatible with one another and our teams are working towards
[00:20:54] these goals and as for public institutions and
[00:20:57] private companies of Turkia, they also
[00:21:01] will play a role in the rebuilding of Syria, they're working
[00:21:05] towards this goal, and regional projects, I
[00:21:09] believe will play a very important role within this
[00:21:12] process, just to give you a concrete example, Turkey, Syria,
[00:21:16] Jordan and Saudi Arabia, highway and rail.
[00:21:21] way interconnectivity initiative is tremendously
[00:21:25] important, this strategic initiative will hopefully be implemented
[00:21:28] sooner than later, and thanks to the
[00:21:32] leadership of our leaders we will stick to this path. dear
[00:21:35] friends, in our bilateral relations, many concrete projects are being
[00:21:39] implemented with speed, turkish school will
[00:21:43] hopefully be opened in Damascus, we would like to thank our country parts for the
[00:21:47] granting the permission and this school. will be opened
[00:21:50] very soon and Turkish Syrian University will hopefully
[00:21:54] be established in Damascus. Healthcare industry is yet
[00:21:58] another top priority area for us, many hospitals
[00:22:02] will be built and the healthcare infrastructure of Syria
[00:22:06] will be built as well as as result of our joint efforts
[00:22:10] and Mou was actually signed in
[00:22:13] June when our minister of health visited
[00:22:17] Syria and also we want Syria to be integrated to the
[00:22:28] denominated accounts and this has
[00:22:31] been a step in in the right direction in the upcoming period
[00:22:34] Turkia Syria relations will hopefully appreciate even further
[00:22:38] thanks to the new projects that we're going implement by working
[00:22:42] together and today we also had the opportunity to talk about regional
[00:22:46] matters of interest between the US and Iran.
[00:23:20] "and this is something that is worthy of note, so the security
[00:23:24] and prosperity of Syria must be protected as regional uh nations,
[00:23:28] it falls on our shoulders to protect Syria's stability. On the other
[00:23:31] hand, Israel has been targeting uh Syria's territorial
[00:23:35] integrity and sovereignty, and these are attacks uh
[00:23:39] towards the stability the country. The international
[00:23:43] community should um raise their voices
[00:23:46] against Israel's occupational attempts."
[00:25:51] protected, which
[00:25:54] is
[00:25:58] being must currently violated be by Israel and we support
[00:26:01] Jordan. as the custodian these holy sites, yet another
[00:26:05] challenge that we're going through as region is in Lebanon,
[00:26:09] Israel is continuing its expansionist policies in
[00:26:13] Lebanon, thousands of people have lost their lives and one million
[00:26:16] civilians were actually displaced, and for the
[00:26:20] prosperity, for the stability the region, stability
[00:26:24] needs to reign supreme in in Lebanon,
[00:26:27] so Lebanon, Syria relations must be normalized and
[00:26:31] cooperation areas must.
[00:26:41] Syria will be source of solutions, not just
[00:26:45] problems. Alhamdulillah, this is happening, and with our brothers
[00:26:48] and sisters
[00:26:49] in the region, we have set up many tables of cooperation
[00:26:52] and our Syrian brothers and sisters will be a part these processes as
[00:26:56] well. In the upcoming period, our bilateral relations will hopefully be
[00:27:00] deepened even further.
[00:27:43] with our brothers and sisters in Turkey, we have
[00:27:47] been working closely and we have achieved a lot a
[00:27:50] a limited period, today also we talked
[00:27:54] about what we can possibly do in
[00:27:57] institutionalized manner, we
[00:27:59] have high strategic,
[00:28:13] between two nations we have achieved coordination, we have a coordination committee
[00:28:16] actually, and in all these areas we talk
[00:28:20] about all the pertinent topics on our agenda, we talk about politics,
[00:28:24] commercial topics as well, we have set
[00:28:27] out our priorities as result these efforts
[00:28:30] and we are hoping
[00:29:10] for more investments, we need to rid the
[00:29:14] region of terrorism and
[00:29:16] militia, and as you very well
[00:29:20] know, obviously we have a shared border, and
[00:29:24] this border must be rid of terrorism as well, and we need to
[00:29:28] protect this border together, and for this process to
[00:29:31] succeed, "we need to work together and this will
[00:29:35] ultimately serve our shared interests. Syria, as you
[00:29:39] know, in this new era has implemented great
[00:29:42] initiatives and these initiatives will be to the benefit, to the
[00:29:46] advantage the region at large, achieving stability, and
[00:29:50] also um making sure
[00:29:54] that there are no armed groups, armed elements outside
[00:29:58] the national armed forces is another goal, arms should
[00:30:02] be. born by the national
[00:30:05] authority only, and for the region, for the
[00:30:09] stability of region, this is of crucial importance, and obviously
[00:30:12] our stability is important for the region at
[00:30:16] large, so that is why in order to
[00:30:19] achieve stability in the region, these
[00:30:22] these things must be taken into
[00:30:26] account, and of course security in the north,
[00:30:29] achieving peace,
[00:30:42] these are attacks against our sovereignty, against our
[00:30:45] territory, and this also de rails the stability
[00:30:49] the region at large. once again, i would like to
[00:30:53] reiterate that in
[00:30:54] 1974.